Did Christianity Cause the Crash?

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200912/rosin-prosperity-gospel


America’s mainstream religious denominations used to teach the faithful that they would be rewarded in the afterlife. But over the past generation, a different strain of Christian faith has proliferated—one that promises to make believers rich in the here and now. Known as the prosperity gospel, and claiming tens of millions of adherents, it fosters risk-taking and intense material optimism. It pumped air into the housing bubble. And one year into the worst downturn since the Depression, it’s still going strong.

[Crookshanks]

:lmao Now they want to blame this economic crisis on religion? Man - they are REALLY reaching.

[Marcus Bryant]

So faith, in its various forms, is immaterial in this country?

BTW, who is this "they"?

[Winehole23]

bF3hniq_DiI

[rjv]

man, i could watch the wild bunch time and time again.

anyway, nice article with a lousy title.

[Winehole23]

The article itself focuses on the prosperity gospel rather than any link to the crash. The title is terrible, but it probably did its job -- it's all about the clicks.

[whottt]

Quite possibly the most brilliant article I have ever read. Seldom have I seen such a bullseye nail so perfectly the cause of a financial collapse.

[SpurNation]

False prophets looking to profit.

[Winehole23]

Quite possibly the most brilliant article I have ever read. Seldom have I seen such a bullseye nail so perfectly the cause of a financial collapse.Your sarcasm misfires because, like Crookshanks, you probably didn't read any further than the totally misleading banner. If you had, what you just said wouldn't have made much sense to you.

[Oh, Gee!!]

not the crash, but this particular brand of religion could have caused some individuals to "go all in" on a bad hand instead of folding. Kenny Rogers wasn't just singing for the f*** of it, folks. The man knew.

[Crookshanks]

Your sarcasm misfires because, like Crookshanks, you probably didn't read any further than the totally misleading banner. If you had, what you just said wouldn't have made much sense to you.

You're right Winehole - I didn't read the entire article when I posted that response. But I did go back and read the whole thing and I have to agree that the title was misleading. But I think they did that on purpose because it would generate more interest.

Personally - I have a real problem with churches that preach this prosperity gospel. I think those preachers are comparable to false prophets and I think Joel Osteen is the biggest one of all. I can't stand him or his "preaching". As Rick Warren said - prosperity gospel is a bunch of baloney. It's very sad that these preachers lead their congregation down a false path. And they take advantage of poor minority individuals.

After reading the entire article, I think it is possible that this type of false message of wealth and prosperity most likely did contribute to the collapse of the housing market. But I don't think you can call it christianity - Jesus never promised that everybody would be rich.

[ChumpDumper]

Adding the word help in the title would have been...helpful.

[word]

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200912/rosin-prosperity-gospel

That would be Joel Olsteen. He cracks me up with this 'god WANTS you to have that new car. He WANTS you to have that new house.'

Uhmm, no, he doesn't. He doesn't even care. God told you exactly what he wants you to do. The teachings of christianity are replete with warnings of love for material possessions and greed, rather than love for god and your fellow man. I would assume most if not all religions warn of this...barring of course the 'Church' of Scientology, which isn't really a religion at all.

But, more power to 'em I guess. But I don't think they are big enough in number to affect anything. Not like Muslims aren't out to make a buck. Or Catholics, or Hindu's....athiests....Mormons.

[whottt]

Your sarcasm misfires because, like Crookshanks

My reply was nothing like crookshanks.



you probably didn't read any further than the totally misleading banner.

I wouldn't have said I read the article if I hadn't.




If you had, what you just said wouldn't have made much sense to you.

On the contrary my dear hole, I don't find anything particularly misleading about the title.

I do find tons of irony though...tons of it.

[MannyIsGod]

Your sarcasm misfires because, like Crookshanks, you probably didn't read any further than the totally misleading banner. If you had, what you just said wouldn't have made much sense to you.

I'm not entirely sure but Whottt probably wasn't being sarcastic.

[whottt]

Actually I was simply giving Marcus the response I figured he wanted. I can see why it could be taken as sarcasm...but it was mainly just to fuck with him. It really didn't have that much to do with article...it had a lot more to do with Marcus Bryant and the particularly stupid spate of articles he has been posting recently.

...it's hilarious that a guy whose basketball creed is spend spend spend(especially hilarious this year),throw money at it, and sign any criminal that ever put up 10ppg ,who fancies himself a conservative, is posting a bullshit article by a liberal jew on some sort of evil new materialism arising in Christianity.

And as you yourself(mr hole) pointed out...the purpose of the title makes it even more amusing.


My guess is Marcus Bryant must be missing his college days.


I feel my response was appropriate.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't fancy myself a conservative.

[rjv]

i do remember reading that in political science classes that a conservative was defined as one who felt a fiscal responsibility to stay under the luxury tax and that it was the liberals who wanted to do away with salary caps.

[Marcus Bryant]

That is, I don't fancy myself to be a neo-progressive scrotum sucker like whottt.

[spursncowboys]

I love when non christians try to tell people what evangelicals and the christian teachings tell us. Beside them telling us Rinos are the republicans only hope - this is the best advice.

[ChumpDumper]

I love when non christians try to tell people what evangelicals and the christian teachings tell us. Beside them telling us Rinos are the republicans only hope - this is the best advice.Which non-Christians are that? I read the article kind of quickly, did the author or any of the quoted parties declared themselves to be non-Christian?

[Ignignokt]

This is the most idiotic article ever posted. Marcus Bryant has proved his moronic rep.

[Crookshanks]

I actually thought it was a well-written article. They talked about the whole prosperity gospel movement, but they didn't give an opinion one way or the other. They gave information and readers can make up their own mind.

The title was the hook because it got people from both ends of the spectrum interested - and I guess that's what a good journalist should do.

[ChumpDumper]

This is the most idiotic article ever posted. Marcus Bryant has proved his moronic rep.What specifically did you find idiotic about it?

[Oh, Gee!!]

The title was the hook because it got people from both ends of the spectrum interested - and I guess that's what a good journalist should do.

It's what spursncowboys does:lol

[Ignignokt]

What specifically did you find idiotic about it?

Even though the title is in question format, it's insinuations are clear.

First of all, the prosperity gospel is only a minor segment of christianity overall.

Second of all, she's basically by levying the charge is agreeing w/ Joel Osteen that Christianity is the prosperity gospel.

Pretty retarded.

Also, no data was used to back any of her claims.

Unless you count the latino surveys. So now that means, Latino Osteens caused the crisis.. ROFL!

On top of that, she talks out of both sides of her mouth saying that the Prosperity Gospel is a prevalent trend and is now more popular than any other teaching, and then that There's an enormous backlash.

See, she covered all bases.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd actually like to see the full results of that Pew poll, and if it is an ongoing one.

[whottt]

That is, I don't fancy myself to be a neo-progressive scrotum sucker like whottt.

Don't get mad at me...get mad at hole, he's the one neeeded the explanation. I was fully prepared to let you take it as a compliment.

[mogrovejo]

The article if filled with nice anecdotes, but where's the beef?

The idiocy of the inter-correlation between "poor classes->prosperity gospel" + "poor classes->foreclosures" <-> "prosperity gospel -> foreclosures" is quite astounding.

Is prosperity gospel (that I've never heard till this day) any popular in Iceland?

This is just a variation of the mantra that "top executives got too greedy", now presented in the form "poor religious people got too greedy". Financial crisis have been happening for centuries.

[EmptyMan]

I've listened to that Joel Olsteen man. He preaches good things.

I do get kind of baffled/pissed when I see huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge churches on prime real estate though.

[Blake]

That would be Joel Olsteen. He cracks me up with this 'god WANTS you to have that new car. He WANTS you to have that new house.'

Uhmm, no, he doesn't. He doesn't even care. God told you exactly what he wants you to do. The teachings of christianity are replete with warnings of love for material possessions and greed, rather than love for god and your fellow man. I would assume most if not all religions warn of this...barring of course the 'Church' of Scientology, which isn't really a religion at all.

But, more power to 'em I guess. But I don't think they are big enough in number to affect anything. Not like Muslims aren't out to make a buck. Or Catholics, or Hindu's....athiests....Mormons.

That's a bit of a stretch.

I've watched/listened to him on a number of occasions and he pulls from biblical examples of Abraham, Joseph, Job and a few others to say "see, when you are obedient, God will deliver."

I don't recall ever hearing him say "God says to go buy that car from McCombs for $0 down and just $299 a month"

He's more of a motivational speaker, imo.

[Blake]

I do get kind of baffled/pissed when I see huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge churches on prime real estate though.

or ones that come complete with shopping malls and coffee shops.

"mega-churches"

[Winehole23]

Financial crisis have been happening for centuries.They have been infrequent here, and people forget what they're like.

When they do occur, the explanations are mostly mythological or superstitious, like the title of the OP.

[whottt]

Which non-Christians are that? I read the article kind of quickly, did the author or any of the quoted parties declared themselves to be non-Christian?

The author is Jewish, and she's a liberal. I don't know if it's funnier that she doesn't see her own bias, or that you don't. Or hell...that Marcus Bryant doesn't.

Yes I have checked that information out. No I didn't before making the original statement.

Nor does she seem to realize that:

A. Organized religions have always been about financial prosperity. That's what they do, they harness the financial power of religion. Judaism pretty much invented the concept.


B. She doesn't even realize that it's the turn towards Judaism that bothers her the most.

C. Christianity is less materialistic than either Judaism or Islam...they just happen to be wealthier inspite of that. Maybe Jesus was on to something...


In any case, just about every other religious movement does something similar, nice of her to keep eye on the christians and let them know if they are doing a good job or not though.

[Blake]

C. Christianity is less materialistic than either Judaism or Islam...they just happen to be wealthier inspite of that. Maybe Jesus was on to something...


right. That's why Jesus was filthy rich right before they crucified him.

of course, you still have me on ignore so you aren't reading a word I say....

...sidebar here....

has whottt ever explained his username? is it pronouced 'who ttt' or is it pronounced like 'what'

[Jacob1983]

You're not going to become rich because you believe in God and Jesus and worship them. When you think about it, the only thing you really get from them is a ticket to Heaven. When you're dead, that will probably come in handy.

[Nbadan]

Stupid thread. Greed caused the crash...greed causes war.....poverty....most social ills

MB is just another GOD hater looking for an excuse and religion is convenient...

[whottt]

right. That's why Jesus was filthy rich right before they crucified him.

of course, you still have me on ignore so you aren't reading a word I say...

Yes you are on ignore, sometimes stuff still gets through.

Link to me saying Jesus was poor? Link to me saying Christianity will make you poor? On the contrary, I said the movement as a whole appears to be the richest of them all. I just said it was the least materialistic of them all. I didn't say it was the poorest. I then said maybe Jesus was on to something...and you posted something stupid that showed you had little or no understanding of what I said.




...sidebar here....

has whottt ever explained his username? is it pronouced 'who ttt' or is it pronounced like 'what'


It"s wo + the 3t sound.

[whottt]

Stupid thread. Greed caused the crash...greed causes war.....poverty....most social ills

MB is just another GOD hater looking for an excuse and religion is convenient...

Speaking of greed Mr. Dan. How'd that whole alternate political forum for 50k turn out?

Ironic isn't it...you being the only poster on this forum who has turned his politics into a net profit?

You little Hannity you.

[Nbadan]

....Hey, I've posted plenty of opportunities for everyone if they would just learn to read between the lines, such as my 87% hit rate for my predictions for 2005 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=124189)...including the two hurricanes that hit New Orleans and Galveston..

...I just learned to use that ability for fun and profit....

...that's not wrong, that's American...

[whottt]

....Hey, I've posted plenty of opportunities for everyone if they would just learn to read between the lines, such as my 87% hit rate for my predictions for 2005 (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=124189)...including the two hurricanes that hit New Orleans and Galveston..

...I just learned to use that ability for fun and profit....

...that's not wrong, that's American...

I don't have a problem with it. Props in fact :tu

Have you shared that money with any poor people?

[Nbadan]

Everyday...

[Blake]

Yes you are on ignore, sometimes stuff still gets through.

I'm betting sometimes you just can't help but click off the ignore.


Link to me saying Jesus was poor? Link to me saying Christianity will make you poor?

Link to me saying that you are saying Jesus was poor? Link to me saying that you are saying that Christianity will make you poor?


On the contrary, I said the movement as a whole appears to be the richest of them all. I just said it was the least materialistic of them all. I didn't say it was the poorest. I then said maybe Jesus was on to something...and you posted something stupid that showed you had little or no understanding of what I said.

what do you think Jesus was maybe on to in regards to this movement appearing to be the richest of them all?

[whottt]

Everyday...

Isn't that the best way to do it? Without the middle man?


You see you can have that sort of Neo-Tribalism under a capitalistic democratic government...ya can't in any other system, at least not in the modern world.


Really...all the rich people that are in favor of Universal Health Care, should go meet with all the poor people in favor of Universal Health care..and get it done.

No need for the Government to be the middle man, it will only result in less money getting to where it needs to go.

[Blake]

Really...all the rich people that are in favor of Universal Health Care, should go meet with all the poor people in favor of Universal Health care..and get it done.


do you feel that the middle class should not be involved in such decision making?

are you going to ask me for link showing you where you said "the middle class should not be involved in such decision making"?

[Nbadan]

Isn't that the best way to do it? Without the middle man?


You see you can have that sort of Neo-Tribalism under a capitalistic democratic government...ya can't in any other system, at least not in the modern world.


Really...all the rich people that are in favor of Universal Health Care, should go meet with all the poor people in favor of Universal Health care..and get it done.

No need for the Government to be the middle man, it will only result in less money getting to where it needs to go.

I may be a liberal at heart, but I don't think anyone able to perform a job should get anything for free...at the same time, it is our obligation as a responsible non-third-world nation to make sure that everyone is healthy enough to become productive citizens...

[whottt]

do you feel that the middle class should not be involved in such decision making?

are you going to ask me for link showing you where you said "the middle class should not be involved in such decision making"?



No I'm not going to ask for that...you are too stupid to notice why that comes off as a question and your other statement came off as a rebuff to a point that evidentally no one was making...

The day you figure out that difference, is the day you will probably make it off ignore and likely not be referred to as the stupidest poster on the board...by more than one person.

In answer to your question...

What purpose would they serve by being involved? For themselves or anyone else?

I guess I am just asking you, why should they be involved? Why should they involve themselves?

[whottt]

I may be a liberal at heart, but I don't think anyone able to perform a job should get anything for free...at the same time, it is our obligation as a responsible non-third-world nation to make sure that everyone is healthy enough to become productive citizens...

I don't. Because I don't think everyone wants to become productive citizens. That is a misguided assumption.

You aren't going to make the problem better by putting a middle man in it. Especially one that's holding both the cash and the drugs.

You make it better by getting rid of the middle man that is already there...the HMO's, insurance companies,.


We have always had doctors, it's the HMO's and insurance companies that are the new thing making it so expensive.

Get rid of the cash holding mechanisms and you not only make it less expensive, you get rid of the shitty doctors that are only doing it for the cash.

[Blake]

The day you figure out that difference, is the day you will probably make it off ignore and likely not be referred to as the stupidest poster on the board...by more than one person.

Putting posters on ignore is a sign of ownage or weakness. It shows you lack the ability to prove your point so you would rather eject altogether.

All I've really ever seen in about 99% of your posts is a lot of hot air with little substance.


In answer to your question...

What purpose would they serve by being involved? For themselves or anyone else?

I guess I am just asking you, why should they be involved? Why should they involve themselves?

Many middle class individuals are unhappy with their current health care and see a subsidized health care system as a means of lowering their costs.

Why would you not involve them?

What do you think Jesus was on to in regards to the movement?

[whottt]

Putting posters on ignore is a sign of ownage or weakness. It shows you lack the ability to prove your point so you would rather eject altogether.

Not when I do it, I do it because they are overwhelmingly stupid.




All I've really ever seen in about 99% of your posts is a lot of hot air with little substance.

I don't really care.




Many middle class individuals are unhappy with their current health care and see a subsidized health care system as a means of lowering their costs.

Why would you not involve them?

It's not up to me to dictate who is involved or who isn't...anyone that wants to be involved can be involved, anyone that doesn't shouldn't have too.

I would say to the middle class that want the Universal Healthcare, go over and ask the rich to give it to you. And if they give a yes, contratulations,. And if they give a you a no...oh well.

Because the only other people to get it from would be the middle class that don't want it, to recieve it, or to pay for it. And since they are the same as you, not richer, not poorer, you have absolutely no basis for taking anything from them.









What do you think Jesus was on to in regards to the movement?

Anwersing that would make me a pastor, and since I have no desire to be one, I'll let someone else make that interpretation for you. I imagine you will have no problem finding the answer you want to hear.

[Blake]

Not when I do it, I do it because they are overwhelmingly stupid.

naw. It's easier to just ignore without actually pressing a button.

That's a fail......and you're not the only person that has me on ignore.

:lol


I don't really care.

Judging by your post count, I have no reason to doubt that.


It's not up to me to dictate who is involved or who isn't...anyone that wants to be involved can be involved, anyone that doesn't shouldn't have too.

Of course it's not, but you brought up the point about having the rich meet the poor to work it out.


I would say to the middle class that want the Universal Healthcare, go over and ask the rich to give it to you. And if they give a yes, contratulations,. And if they give a you a no...oh well.

are you drunk?


Because the only other people to get it from would be the middle class that don't want it, to recieve it, or to pay for it. And since they are the same as you, not richer, not poorer, you have absolutely no basis for taking anything from them.

I'm guessing yes.


Anwersing that would make me a pastor,

You could answer it and I can pretty much guarantee you nobody but you will think "pastor"


and since I have no desire to be one, I'll let someone else make that interpretation for you. I imagine you will have no problem finding the answer you want to hear.

I'm betting nobody else here thinks Jesus was maybe "on to something".

You are referred to as an idiotic, fluff filled poster.......by at least one poster

[ChumpDumper]

The author is Jewish, and she's a liberal. I don't know if it's funnier that she doesn't see her own bias, or that you don't. Or hell...that Marcus Bryant doesn't.

Yes I have checked that information out. No I didn't before making the original statement.

Nor does she seem to realize that:

A. Organized religions have always been about financial prosperity. That's what they do, they harness the financial power of religion. Judaism pretty much invented the concept.


B. She doesn't even realize that it's the turn towards Judaism that bothers her the most.

C. Christianity is less materialistic than either Judaism or Islam...they just happen to be wealthier inspite of that. Maybe Jesus was on to something...


In any case, just about every other religious movement does something similar, nice of her to keep eye on the christians and let them know if they are doing a good job or not though.So Jews can never write about Christians?

K.

[whottt]

naw. It's easier to just ignore without actually pressing a button.

That's a fail......and you're not the only person that has me on ignore.

:lol

I bet they have you on ignore for the same reason I do, it's not because of your arguments, it's because you are overhwhelmingly stupid.


People saying the ST basketball forum has been overrun by idiots? They aren't saying that because of the challenging and insightful discussion being held therein, they are saying that because it legitimately has been overrun by idiots.


Seriously.

And it's always funny when someone on ignore gives me their opinion about being on ignore...if I cared about your opinion, you wouldn't be on ignore.

Don't let the fact that I had any sort of a discussion with you confound you here...does being on ignore mean I never read? No. Every once in a while I do, sometimes a debate happens...because not everyone stays stupid. But in this case it was just circumstance, I probably would not have clicked to de-ignore. I was logged out.

[whottt]

So Jews can never write about Christians?

K.

K yourself.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why is it verboten to agree with a ''liberal Jew,' Herr whottt?

[ChumpDumper]

Well, according to whottt every Christian here is now disqualified from posting about any other religion or lack thereof.

That might be a good thing.

[whottt]

Well, according to whottt every Christian here is now disqualified from posting about any other religion or lack thereof.

That might be a good thing.


Why is it verboten to agree with a ''liberal Jew,' Herr whottt?



Links? I never said anything of the kind.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure you can post about them, but your bias is too strong for you to be taken seriously.

[Ignignokt]

Sure you can post about them, but your bias is too strong for you to be taken seriously.

So you agree with WHott?

[whottt]

Sure you can post about them, but your bias is too strong for you to be taken seriously.

I don't know, my impression when I read that article was that it was biased and biased in a fashion I have seen before, I concluded it was written by a liberal jew and lo and behold I was right. It was a generalization and I certainly could have wound up looking like a dumbass for making it...however, I was right.

I then gave a basis for why it was biased, what it overlooked, both about historical Christianity(and relgion) not to mention Judaism.

It was biased, it had exactly the source of bias I claimed it did, I don't see any sort of bias impacting my opinion. I see my conclusion was right and it stands to reason my reasons for drawing that conclusion were also right. Ignorance and denial(hers, not mine).

You tell me, what is my bias, what is the source of my bias chump?

Show me how it is skewing my perception...I genuinely don't like having a skewed perception so you can count on me to be truly open minded here.

Let's see if your conclusion turns out to be anywhere near as accurate as mine was. It won't. In spite of the fact you know more about me than I did about the author of that article as I was reading it.

I am capable of being biased, I wasn't biased in any conclusion I made regarding this article though. The known facts bear out I was accurate, not biased.

[ChumpDumper]

I would have preferred to see the full results of the poll, but the link was broken. I don't think she drew any hard and fast conclusions, so the question mark in the title was justified and instructive.

[Ignignokt]

I would have preferred to see the full results of the poll, but the link was broken. I don't think she drew any hard and fast conclusions, so the question mark in the title was justified and instructive.



Latino Osteens caused the crash! No hard conclusions there! lololololololololololololololol:lmao:lmao:lmao:lma o:lmao:lmao:lmaox100000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000

[ChumpDumper]

Latino Osteens caused the crash! No hard conclusions there! lololololololololololololololol:lmao:lmao:lmao:lma o:lmao:lmao:lmaox100000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000Show me the quote where she said that.

[Ignignokt]

Show me the quote where she said that.

She focused her data on Latino prosperity gospel believers to prove her thesis. Most Latino's are catholics, and Latinos are not known for controlling vast amounts of wealth in proportionate to other affluent minorities.

Fail!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[ChumpDumper]

She focused her data on Latino prosperity gospel believers to prove her thesis. Most Latino's are catholics, and Latinos are not known for controlling vast amounts of wealth in proportionate to other affluent minorities.

Fail!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lolSo you don't have a quote.

Fail!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Ignignokt]

So you don't have a quote.

Fail!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

Don't have to, Latino Osteens is my own word to describe what she meant by Latino christians believing in the prosperity gospel.

SO you didn't read the article.

Fail :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[ChumpDumper]

Don't have to, Latino Osteens is my own word to describe what she meant by Latino christians believing in the prosperity gospel.

SO you didn't read the article.

Fail :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lolI definitely read the article. She never said Latino Osteens caused the crash and you can't find a quote where she said that.

Fail :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Ignignokt]

I definitely read the article. She never said Latino Osteens caused the crash and you can't find a quote where she said that.

Fail :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

No her data did. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Fail!

[ChumpDumper]

No her data did. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Fail!No it didn't. Nice of you to jump to that conclusion though. Fail :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Ignignokt]

No it didn't. Nice of you to jump to that conclusion though. Fail :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

You wouldn't know. You said you can't see her data.

Fail.:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[ChumpDumper]

You wouldn't know. You said you can't see her data.

Fail.:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lolI said I didn't see the full poll results from the Pew Center.

Fail.:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Ignignokt]

I said I didn't see the full poll results from the Pew Center.

Fail.:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

so you haven't seen all the data.

:toast

[ChumpDumper]

so you haven't seen all the data.

:toastNeither have you, and you are the one claiming she drew a hard and fast conclusion with the data.

:toast

[Ignignokt]

Neither have you, and you are the one claiming she drew a hard and fast conclusion with the data.

:toast

She did, and she posed it all in question format to give her leeway. You're not that stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

She did, and she posed it all in question format to give her leeway. You're not that stupid.So she actually didn't.

Okay.

[Ignignokt]

So she actually didn't.

Okay.

actually?

Almost?

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[ChumpDumper]

actually?

Almost?

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lolNo.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Ignignokt]

Chumps defending a woman whose using a small percentage of the Latino population which is majority catholic to blame christianity for a crisis.

Chump just didn't do what stupid tries?

[ChumpDumper]

Chumps defending a woman whose using a small percentage of the Latino population which is majority catholic to blame christianity for a crisis.

Chump just didn't do what stupid tries?Nah, I'm just saying you couldn't find a quote where she actually did that.

You failed and you're pissy about it.

[ploto]

Not a fan of the prosperity gospel. I listened to Osteen a few times and thought he was OK- at least not a fire and brimstone or End of Times kind of guy. But I quickly discovered that here I thought he was taking about spiritual rewards when he went on and on about God wanting to bless people. I finally realized he actually meant financial rewards, and I had no interest in listening to him anymore. He seems to encourage people to take financial risk, claiming it will all be fine if their faith is strong enough. Some even go so far as to suggest that your faith is weak if you are not willing to take these risks. Just not in line with what I believe. I find so much of the life of Jesus the complete opposite of how these congregations operate and the priorities that they have.

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

"Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff."

[admiralsnackbar]

Not a fan of the prosperity gospel. I listened to Osteen a few times and thought he was OK- at least not a fire and brimstone or End of Times kind of guy. But I quickly discovered that here I thought he was taking about spiritual rewards when he went on and on about God wanting to bless people. I finally realized he actually meant financial rewards, and I had no interest in listening to him anymore. He seems to encourage people to take financial risk, claiming it will all be fine if their faith is strong enough. Some even go so far as to suggest that your faith is weak if you are not willing to take these risks. Just not in line with what I believe. I find so much of the life of Jesus the complete opposite of how these congregations operate and the priorities that they have.

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

"Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff."

I don't mean to single you out, but it's a relief to read somebody on this board who has actually read and understood the Gospels, IMO. Osteen seems like a mountebank, offering more what people want than what the Gospels actually extend to them.

[Ignignokt]

Nah, I'm just saying you couldn't find a quote where she actually did that.

You failed and you're pissy about it.

Thanks for confirming you didn't read the article. :toast

The subject was chrisitianity causing the crash, and she did use latino protestants as a data sample.

[Ignignokt]

Nah, I'm just saying you couldn't find a quote where she actually did that.

You failed and you're pissy about it.

Why do you hate reading articles?


Among Latinos the prosperity gospel has been spreading rapidly. In a recent Pew survey, 73 percent of all religious Latinos in the United States agreed with the statement: “God will grant financial success to all believers who have enough faith.” For a generation of poor and striving Latino immigrants, the gospel seems to offer a road map to affluence and modern living. Garay’s church is comprised mostly of first-generation immigrants. More than others I’ve visited, it echoes back a highly distilled, unself-conscious version of the current thinking on what it means to live the American dream.

[ChumpDumper]

Right. That quote doesn't say what you said it did.

Fail.

[Ignignokt]

Right. That quote doesn't say what you said it did.

Fail.

You thought i did a direct qoute.

fail.

[ChumpDumper]

You thought i did a direct qoute.

fail.I asked for a direct quote.

And you just posted a direct quote.

Fail.

[whottt]

It's the Mexicans fault

[ChumpDumper]

Look at the straw man I just made!

[whottt]

Take one to know one, you antisemite Nazi

[ChumpDumper]

I made another straw man! More to come! I've got bales of this stuff!

[whottt]

So Jews can never write about Christians?

K.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm upset that my "logic" was turned against me.

[whottt]

When someone uses my logic against me, I call it a strawman

[ChumpDumper]

I don't actually use anyone's logic against them. I make up my straw men all by myself, using the most inflammatory language I can come up with. Hopefully I'll piss the guy off.

[whottt]

It's different when I do it

[ChumpDumper]

I said the author is biased because she is a liberal Jew.

[Ignignokt]

I asked for a direct quote.

And you just posted a direct quote.

Fail.

You suck at grasping for straws.

fail.

[Ignignokt]

Liberal Jews are objective and authoritative sources on Christians.

[ChumpDumper]

You suck at grasping for straws.

fail.:lol You're the one who got pissy after you couldn't find a quote.

Fail.

[ChumpDumper]

Look at me! I'm using whottt's straw! There's a whole lot of it!

[Ignignokt]

:lol You're the one who got pissy after you couldn't find a quote.

Fail.

You just admitted i found a qoute.

I asked for a direct quote.

And you just posted a direct quote.

Fail.


Does Chumpdump self pwnage mean Chumpdump win?

[Ignignokt]

I self proclaimed victory on this thread on Latino Osteens and Liberal Jews being authoritative. Pixel, Shasta, baseline, Back me Up!

[ChumpDumper]

You just admitted i found a qoute.

Contradicted add Fail.You couldn't find a quote that said what you claimed it did.

You fail to even remember what you posted. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Shit. She didn't say what I said she said. I need to start with some ad hominems and change the subject!

[Ignignokt]

You couldn't find a quote that said what you claimed it did.

You fail to even remember what you posted. :lol

I did find a quote that said what i claimed.:lol

[ChumpDumper]

I did find a quote that said what i claimed.:lolNo, you didn't. :lol

[Ignignokt]

No, you didn't. :lol

Yeah, i did.:lol

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, i did.:lolNo, you didn't. :lol

[Ignignokt]

No, you didn't. :lol

:lol, tag! am I "it"?

[mogrovejo]

They have been infrequent here, and people forget what they're like.

When they do occur, the explanations are mostly mythological or superstitious, like the title of the OP.

Replace Christianity in the title with "Prosperity Gospel" and the title becomes a fair picture of what the author tries to suggest.

[Blake]

I bet they have you on ignore for the same reason I do, it's not because of your arguments, it's because you are overhwhelmingly stupid.

naw, it's usually because they get owned and can't take it any more....just like you.

I forget which thread it was you got butthurt in, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.


Seriously.

And it's always funny when someone on ignore gives me their opinion about being on ignore...if I cared about your opinion, you wouldn't be on ignore.

Don't let the fact that I had any sort of a discussion with you confound you here...does being on ignore mean I never read? No. Every once in a while I do, sometimes a debate happens...because not everyone stays stupid. But in this case it was just circumstance, I probably would not have clicked to de-ignore. I was logged out.

If you didn't care about my opinion, you wouldn't have taken the time to respond.

Just do yourself a favor and put me back on ignore.

[Blake]

Not a fan of the prosperity gospel. I listened to Osteen a few times and thought he was OK- at least not a fire and brimstone or End of Times kind of guy. But I quickly discovered that here I thought he was taking about spiritual rewards when he went on and on about God wanting to bless people. I finally realized he actually meant financial rewards, and I had no interest in listening to him anymore. He seems to encourage people to take financial risk, claiming it will all be fine if their faith is strong enough. Some even go so far as to suggest that your faith is weak if you are not willing to take these risks. Just not in line with what I believe. I find so much of the life of Jesus the complete opposite of how these congregations operate and the priorities that they have.

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

"For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

"Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff."

why do you think God blessed Abraham?