PDA

View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Mavs - Nov. 18



timvp
11-19-2009, 02:52 PM
The Spurs and the Mavs put on another overtime thriller. This time, however, a lot of the stars didn't make it to the end. The Mavs were without Josh Howard, Shawn Marion and Erick Dampier, while the Spurs were without Tony Parker to begin with and then lost Manu Ginobili to injury during the first quarter.

As for the game, it was an ugly affair through three quarters. Both teams were struggling and few players were performing at a high level. The fourth quarter got more competitive, especially down the stretch. Tim Duncan tied the game with two free throws with 30 seconds remaining. After Dirk Nowitzki put the Mavs up by two points on a tip in, Duncan countered with a turnaround banker from five feet away with two seconds to go to tie the game. Duncan then blocked Jason Terry's on the other end to send the game into overtime.

In overtime, the Spurs started strong with a George Hill three-point play. But the momentum swing of the game was when Duncan missed a point-blank layup that could have put the Spurs up by four points. Instead, Nowitzki got a three-point play on the other end to put the Mavs up by a point. The Spurs never threatened again.

Dallas has to be happy with the win, especially considering that the Spurs had won in San Antonio last week. Nowitzki shook off a slow start and was an absolute beast in the fourth quarter and overtime. The Spurs didn't send many double-teams his way and the result was a 41 point outburst. Gooden started for the Mavs at center and played well -- finishing with 17 points, 11 rebounds and three blocks.

For the Spurs, it was another disappointing loss. They are now 0-4 on the road and 4-5 overall. And while the forthcoming schedule isn't too arduous, the injury woes will force the Spurs into survival mode.

Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
41:15 minutes, 22 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks
8-for-22 from the field, 6-for-8 at the line

Tim Duncan had an inconsistent outing. At times he was really good, at times he was lacking. Late in the fourth quarter, Duncan was great on both ends of the court. He single-handedly carried the Spurs into overtime. However, in the overtime, Duncan disappointed. He missed all three of his shots including the momentum crushing gimme. Overall, it's difficult to be too disappointed with Duncan's effort. He was extremely active throughout and he impacted the game in several different facets. Duncan played well enough for the Spurs to win.
-------------------------------

Manu Ginobili
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3380.jpg
7:28 minutes, 2 points, 2 assists
1-for-3 from the field, 0-for-1 on three-pointers

Entering the game with a hamstring issue, Manu Ginobili left with a groin injury. He seemed to be in quite a bit of pain, which probably means he'll be out of the lineup for at least a week. Ginobili's health was a primary concern entering the season and now those fears have been realized not even ten games in. Hopefully this latest injury isn't anything too serious and Ginobili can return soon. Once he's back on the court, Spurs fans have to go back to crossing their fingers while praying that the injury bug will leave Ginobili alone.
-------------------------------

Richard Jefferson
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3523.jpg
41:55 minutes, 13 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 5 turnovers
5-for-11 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

Without Parker and Ginobili, the Spurs needed more out of Richard Jefferson. He played well during stints in the second and third quarters but his last field goal came with about five minutes remaining in the third period. The rest of the way, he missed his final three attempts. He has to be more aggressive, even if it means breaking the offensive sets to attack the basket. Defensively, he was decent but didn't face many tough matchups. The best news is that his rebounding has really improved since the beginning of the season.
-------------------------------

Antonio McDyess
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3004.jpg
33:19 minutes, 8 points, 4 rebounds, 2 blocked shot
3-for-5 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line

In his first start of the season next to Tim Duncan, Antonio McDyess showed flashes of why the Spurs went out and spent the money to bring him in. He hit a couple of big jumpers and had a few very good defensive possessions on Nowitzki. But McDyess also showed that he's still new to the system. His pick-and-roll timing was off, his help defense was rarely on time and he didn't do a very good job of crashing the boards. With the Spurs being short-handed, it'd be helpful if McDyess found his groove sooner rather than later.
-------------------------------

George Hill
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/4488.jpg
35:14 minutes, 15 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds
6-for-15 from the field, 1-for-4 on three-pointers, 2-for-4 at the line

I was really disappointed with George Hill's play in the first half. He didn't do much of anything other than get in foul trouble. He played better in the third quarter but once again had to sit due to picking up his fourth foul. Hill played much better in the fourth quarter and overtime. His defense improved and he began to help out offensively. But if the Spurs are going to win big games on the road without Parker and Ginobili, they need Hill to be more consistent and avoid long stretches of passive play.
-------------------------------

Michael Finley
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3023.jpg
33:03 minutes, 10 points, 4 rebounds
4-for-7 from the field, 2-for-2 on three-pointers

With Ginobili out, Michael Finley ended up taking most of his minutes and performed admirably. He hit difficult shots and his defense was relatively good -- especially against Jason Kidd. Finley has been exposed in the past against the Mavs but that couldn't be said for Wednesday night.
-------------------------------

Matt Bonner
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3748.jpg
25:28 minutes, 11 points, 10 rebounds, 2 assists
4-for-6 from the field, 3-for-4 on three-pointers

In the first half, Matt Bonner was arguably the best player on the court. He had nine points and eight rebounds while playing with a high level of aggression. In the second half, the Mavs starting taking advantage of Bonner's matchup against Nowitzki. As a result, Pop only used Bonner for about 12 minutes in the second half and overtime. In retrospect, finding a way to play Bonner more minutes likely would have been advantageous. On the season, Bonner's number are much better when he comes off the bench (11.3 points, 6.8 rebounds and 52.4% three-point shooting in 25.8 minutes). If he can thrive off the bench, he'll be a valuable player who allows the coaching staff to throw multiple looks at opponents.
-------------------------------

Roger Mason, Jr.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3628.jpg
23:29 minutes, 9 points, 2 assists
2-for-8 from the field, 0-for-2 on three-pointers, 5-for-5 at the line

It was more of the same for Roger Mason, Jr. -- and that's not a good thing. Mason lowered his field goal percentage on the season to 27.8% and gave a painful reminder that he's not a capable point guard. He made a few decent plays on the offensive end but those were outweighed by his numerous missed shots, mistakes and poor defensive plays.

-------------------------------

Keith Bogans
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3746.jpg
12:01 minutes, 2 points, 2 rebounds
2-for-3 at the line

Keith Bogans wasn't in the starting lineup for the first time in four games. From the bench, Bogans played 12 sporadic minutes. He played good defense in his time on the court but didn't see enough meaningful action to make a true impact. His best work was when he switched onto J.J. Barea and kept him from pestering the Spurs. With Ginobili out, it'll be interesting to see if Pop goes with Bogans in the starting lineup or opts for more of a scoring unit.

-------------------------------

DeJuan Blair
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/4642.jpg
5:57 minutes, 2 assists, 1 rebounds, 1 blocked shot, 1 turnover

DeJuan Blair played his fewest amount of minutes on the season. All six of his minutes came in the first half and the most notable aspect of his stint came when he drew the ire of Pop for his reckless play at the end of the first quarter. Blair is in the midst of his first professional slump. Will he be able to battle his way out of it and regain his foothold in the rotation? Stay tuned.

-------------------------------

Malik Hairston
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1925/malikhairston.jpg
5:51 minutes, 2 points, 1 rebound, 1 turnover
1-for-1 from the field

In a classic Pop move, Malik Hairston got his first real minutes of the season when he entered the game to begin the fourth quarter. Even though he was only on the court for about six minutes, I was impressed with what I saw. His defense was very good -- both on the ball and away from the ball. He also moved well offensively to find the open spots. He hesitated a few times and got called for traveling but considering the circumstance and considering this was his first action of the year, I thought he showed enough to warrant further minutes in upcoming games.
-------------------------------

Gregg Popovich
http://dailyelements.com/pop-stoic.jpg

Pop continuously called plays for Duncan and tried to ride his franchise player to victory. It almost worked, and given the defenders Duncan was going against and the Dallas' reluctance to send a double team, I thought it was a good idea. Pop also deserves credit for the team not skipping a beat after Ginobili joined Parker on the sidelines. Considering what Pop had to work with this game, I agreed with almost all the buttons he pushed. Going back to Bonner earlier in the second half could have worked and maybe calling more plays for Jefferson could forced the Mavs to alter their gameplan, but I can't say those ideas are better than the ones Pop employed.
-------------------------------

Offense

In the first half, the offense was difficult to watch. They scored only 35 points and it wasn't for a trio of three-pointers by Bonner, it could have been much worse. In the second half, the offense got rolling. The Spurs scored 59 points in the second half and overtime. On the game, the Spurs shot 43.6% from the field, 46.7% (7-of-15) on three-pointers and 79.2% (19-of-24) at the line. They had a healthy number of assists (22) but the 18 turnovers really hurt.

Defense

The effort defensively was commendable. On initial possessions, the Spurs played solid defense. The problem is that they gave up 17 offensive rebounds and forced only five turnovers. Those two stats combined led to the Mavs attempting 22 more shots from the field. That allowed the Mavs to shoot worse in each category (40% from the field, 17.6% from beyond the arc and 76.2% at the line) and still win the ballgame. In past seasons, the Spurs have been extremely strong on the defensive glass. This year, the Spurs are 22nd in the league in defensive rebounding. They need to fix that ASAP.

Drive to Five

The Spurs return to the AT&T Center on Thursday to play a back-to-back game against the Utah Jazz. The Jazz haven't beaten the Spurs in San Antonio since 1999 but with a tired team and without Ginobili and Parker, this could very well be a struggle. Hopefully the Spurs get a few role players to step up and return to the win column.

Believe.

SKINNYPIMP210
11-19-2009, 03:11 PM
Yeah that gimmie by Duncan was HUGE! But I think Bogans should have played in OT, we needed his speed and Defense out there!

Libri
11-19-2009, 03:13 PM
In a classic Pop move, Malik Hairston got his first real minutes of the season when he entered the game to begin the fourth quarter. Even though he was only on the court for about six minutes, I was impressed with what I saw. His defense was very good -- both on the ball and away from the ball. He also moved well offensively to find the open spots. He hesitated a few times and got called for traveling but considering the circumstance and considering this was his first action of the year, I thought he showed enough to warrant further minutes in upcoming games.I also liked what I saw from Malik. He was quick and easily found his way on offense. He might be able to provide a spark off the bench, if all else is not working well.

Bender
11-19-2009, 03:14 PM
I can't wait for us to be at 20 or 25 games so we will be gellin'. Hopefully it won't take much longer than that.

http://www.utterwonder.com/archives/images/gellin-thumb.jpg

Brazil
11-19-2009, 03:18 PM
Thanks timvp ! I have two questions for you regarding rebounding numbers of RJ and Bonner (impossible to see the game too late in Brazil).
RJ was really focus on rebounding or it is just a story of opportunities and matchups ?
One of the good surprise for me so far is that Bonner improved a lot his rebounding, I've even seen him having offensive ones. What has changed since last year ? is it fluke or you think he can maintain decent rebounding numbers ?

timvp
11-19-2009, 03:20 PM
I also liked what I saw from Malik. He was quick and easily found his way on offense. He might be able to provide a spark off the bench, if all else is not working well.

I think Hairston becomes a lot more valuable when Ginobili isn't around. Hairston has some of that wildcard factor that Ginobili usually brings. His movement and energy will be useful for however long Ginobili is sidelined.

We'll see tonight if Pop is thinking along the same lines or if Hairston just got a cameo before getting sent down to Austin.

timvp
11-19-2009, 03:28 PM
RJ was really focus on rebounding or it is just a story of opportunities and matchups ?He pulled down a few impressive boards. Pop mentioned earlier in the season that he stressed rebounding to Jefferson and I've seen a lot more effort from RJ in that regard.

But yeah, some of his rebounds were due to matchups since he was defended by small players most of the time (including Kidd for long stretches).


One of the good surprise for me so far is that Bonner improved a lot his rebounding, I've even seen him having offensive ones. What has changed since last year ? is it fluke or you think he can maintain decent rebounding numbers ?

Before last night's game, Bonner's rebounding rate was the worst of his Spurs career. But yeah, he's done a much better job in the last three games. He seems to be putting more effort into going after boards. Plus, since he's coming off the bench, perhaps it's easier for him to rebound against bench players rather than starter.

As a starter, Bonner is averaging 6.4 rebounds per 40 minutes. Off the bench, he's averaging 10.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. We'll see if that disparity remains once the sample size increases. But considering that Bonner's best two rebounding seasons with the Spurs were the two that he came off the bench, perhaps there's something to it.

spurs10
11-19-2009, 03:51 PM
Thanks timvp. Since I've been reading ST I've enjoyed your "thoughts" very much. Have any pre-game thoughts on tonights game. A lot of our guys are due. I believe RJ will be the 1st on the court and will give it all he's got. Hopefully Tim still has some energy left as well

SpurNation
11-19-2009, 04:03 PM
Richard Jefferson
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.e1d/img/4.0/global/basketball/nba/players/3523.jpg
41:55 minutes, 13 points, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 5 turnovers
5-for-11 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers, 2-for-2 at the line

Without Parker and Ginobili, the Spurs needed more out of Richard Jefferson. He played well during stints in the second and third quarters but his last field goal came with about five minutes remaining in the third period. The rest of the way, he missed his final three attempts. He has to be more aggressive, even if it means breaking the offensive sets to attack the basket. Defensively, he was decent but didn't face many tough matchups. The best news is that his rebounding has really improved since the beginning of the season.


It would be nice if Pop gave Jefferson carte blanc in that area.

Parker2112
11-19-2009, 04:03 PM
Timvp: "Pop continuously called plays for Duncan and tried to ride his franchise player to victory. It almost worked, and given the defenders Duncan was going against and the Dallas' reluctance to send a double team, I thought it was a good idea."

Tim was limping in OT. Second time I've seen this in the last several games. This is not a good sign, and I think we need to adjust asap. Too much reliance on Tim right now is a BIG MISTAKE...and it is going to cost us in the end.

For Starters:
Jefferson needs some offensive sets created just for him...not any of this pick and roll junk. Post up plays, motion plays etc. Hairston needs to find his way on the court...he can help us keep the D stable, while adding more offense than Bogans or RMJ. We can't keep relying on Finley forever.

But More Than Anything:
We need to let the guys who are healthy, in shape, contributing, and bringing energy play most of the minutes. As for our big three, they may be our best players as Timvp likes to harp on, but they aren't necessarily our best players right now. Sorry, but if Timmy needs more rest or more treatment, he needs to step aside. If TP or Manu are hurt, let them take a week off, rather than bringing them back too early and risking the long-term outlook. When they can come back healthy, bring them back and manage their minutes.

HarlemHeat37
11-19-2009, 04:04 PM
It's definitely the competition for Bonner IMO..everybody saw this coming..the guy is a good player, and he isn't going to be exposed against bench players..he's instant energy off the bench, and it doesn't look like his confidence is going to be an issue..

I thought Pop coached a good game, not much to complain about..Mason played horribly, but he was the only "PG" we had when Hill was in foul trouble, so no alternatives there..

It's always difficult to tell what Pop is thinking when it comes to young players though..Hairston played very well in limited time, and then got benched..the same thing happened last year when he came in with the main guys, got a putback dunk, and then Pop benched him..I don't know..

Brazil
11-19-2009, 04:08 PM
Plus, since he's coming off the bench, perhaps it's easier for him to rebound against bench players rather than starter.

As a starter, Bonner is averaging 6.4 rebounds per 40 minutes. Off the bench, he's averaging 10.5 rebounds per 40 minutes. We'll see if that disparity remains once the sample size increases. But considering that Bonner's best two rebounding seasons with the Spurs were the two that he came off the bench, perhaps there's something to it.

Thanks. I agree I think he is really a player suited for coming off the bench, he is much more useful for the team: more rebounds, he is suffering much less on Defense side and he can be an asset for the second squad at the 3 point line.

mando6599
11-19-2009, 05:15 PM
I posted this in another thread but felt it could go here too.

I HATE losing, esp. to these Mavs, but if I've ever felt "good" about a loss, I guess this would be the closest I've had that feeling.

A few points:

1)FINALLY, Pop played Hairston!!! Thank you!!! Oh wait, he actually played defense?!?! Yes, and he is athletic and looked to score(i.e. aggressive) almost every time he got the ball on offense.(2 times?)
2)GEORGE HILL! While he got benched for a bad foul out of bounds, he played the final quarter and OT with confidence I didn't know he had. Aggressive to the rim, finishing at the rim, shooting the 3 and midrange jumper well. Oh wait, he actually played defense?!?! YES!!!
3)BONNER! Honestly that's the best I've seen him play and with the most confidence. 11 points on 3-4 on 3's and 10 boards and was aggressive on the boards too. Now I thought he played defense as well as he can on Dirk. There were a couple of times however that Bonner should have blocked JJ's shot but didn't? Weird.
4)DICE! Man his jumper looks AWESOME!!! Every time I saw him square up, I thought it was going in. Defense on Dirk was commendable and even good. When you are forcing Dirk to fade and shoot rainbows, I'll take that make 1000 times more than a stumbling Dirk towards the hoop drawing the phantom foul and 1.

Let me reiterate that I HATE to lose as a Spurs fan. But these are some very bright spots for our team. And I tend to forget that we're working in 7 new players into our system still and our superstars have not played together consistently enough yet.

mando

vander
11-19-2009, 05:47 PM
Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
41:15 minutes, 22 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks
8-for-22 from the field, 6-for-8 at the line

Grade:
F

Spurs lost because Duncan played like complete crap

SuperDave
11-19-2009, 06:43 PM
I thought there were some encouraging signs for the future in our performance. It was an ugly game, but the Spurs hung in there and gutted it out, and played good defense. I thought the defense Bonner and Dice played on Dirk was pretty solid, with Dice having the potential to really make Dirk work hard in a 7-game series. Jefferson played a pretty good defensive game as well, but he's still feeling his way offensively.

We were missing more firepower than they were, and I think it was tougher for us having to adjust on the fly to Manu's injury. Combine the injuries with Hill's foul problems and homecourt advantage, as well as the extra motivation from the Mavs having lost in embarassing fashion to us last week, the deck was stacked against us a bit, and we still almost took the game.

It was a loss, but I think we can take some positives from it.

Spurs Brazil
11-19-2009, 06:47 PM
timvp, do you think Pop should start Dice or Blair?

EricB
11-19-2009, 06:52 PM
I'm still impressed with the defensive effort. The mavericks rarely scored on easy layups. 90% of it was off of hard jumpers. Enouraged I am after this effort.

NZ Spurs
11-19-2009, 06:54 PM
How about George Hill, on the switch, letting Dirk go unimpeded all the way to the rim for that tip in.

DPG21920
11-19-2009, 07:14 PM
Couple of things:

RJ's stats are very "empty". You look at his stat line and you say "wow, good game". If you watch the game, you are saying "he is not doing very much". He needs to be aggressive at all times. He keeps getting caught in-between decisions and you can see it on the court. He has shown flashes, but he is still struggling.

Why would you throw a guy like Malik into a game in this situation:

1) Against a Conference Rival
2) On the Road
3) In the 4th Quarter
4) When the game is extremely tight

I just don't get the point of that.

ploto
11-19-2009, 07:15 PM
I thought the whole idea of bringing in all these new big men was so that Duncan would not be worn down by April. He looks worn down before Thanksgiving.

DPG21920
11-19-2009, 07:24 PM
I thought the whole idea of bringing in all these new big men was so that Duncan would not be worn down by April. He looks worn down before Thanksgiving.

Disagree. Duncan looks rusty and out of shape. He did not do much this summer.

Parker looks worn down. Huge difference between the way TP and TD look imo.

silverblackfan
11-19-2009, 08:06 PM
Why would you throw a guy like Malik into a game in this situation:

1) Against a Conference Rival
2) On the Road
3) In the 4th Quarter
4) When the game is extremely tight

I just don't get the point of that.

I chalk it up to Pop wanting to see how Hairston handles pressure.. and I think he did well for himself. I remember Pop putting Hill in the last play off game, under pressure, and realizing he had struck gold. Maybe he wants to see what he has got a little earlier this time.

RodNIc91
11-20-2009, 01:27 AM
Correct me if Im wrong but nobody had scored 40+ pts on the Spurs since 2006?

newacc
11-20-2009, 02:37 AM
Tim Duncan
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/basketball/nba/players/3173.jpg
41:15 minutes, 22 points, 14 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 blocks
8-for-22 from the field, 6-for-8 at the line

Grade:
F

Spurs lost because Duncan played like complete crap

I don't get this. I only saw the second half but I thought Duncan played really well. He was much more quick and decisive with his actions. He also made his free throws, particularly some high pressure ones.

He did miss the easy layup at the end, but he had carried the Spurs up until that point.

Relative to what he usually is, I'd give him a A- for effort and aggressiveness. He actually punished the Mavs for guarding him straight up. I didn't like his shot selection against Dirk in OT, but again I think he was tiring out.

When the human turnover (RM at point) came in, that's when the game really shifted. As soon as G. Hill went out, I knew it was trouble. Mason is absolutely not even remotely close to being a PG. Other teams pick up on his inability to dribble with pressure and destroy him. If I'm the Spurs, I seriously have to consider bringing a 3rd PG just for purposes of bringing up the ball. RM at point is like watching the moments before an inevitable trainwreck.

One last thing - I hate when Bill Land acts like he knows something bad will happen or waits until it does happen and then changes to his quick give up voice like he can't wait to take off his Spurs screensaver at home. The game wasn't even over against the Mavs and he was already thanking Mike Kickirillo.

DubMcDub
11-20-2009, 02:40 AM
One last thing - I hate when Bill Land acts like he knows something bad will happen or waits until it does happen and then changes to his quick give up voice like he can't wait to take off his Spurs screensaver at home. The game wasn't even over against the Mavs and he was already thanking Mike Kickirillo.

Maybe he's trying to at least appear unbiased, as announcers are supposed to do, to counter the vibe of Sean Elliott, who reacts to wins and losses more like a Spurs season ticket holder than a professional announcer.

newacc
11-20-2009, 02:51 AM
Maybe he's trying to at least appear unbiased, as announcers are supposed to do, to counter the vibe of Sean Elliott, who reacts to wins and losses more like a Spurs season ticket holder than a professional announcer.

I think he gave up that charade awhile ago. He and Elliott don't even pretend to be 70/30. The only thing close is when Elliott mildly complements obviously great moves or talents by the opponents.

I don't really mind that they've now evolved into very organized fans with one having a press pass to all the players but I just wish Elliott would stop biting his tongue (he admits doing this) when the Spurs obviously do something wrong. His sharpest critique is hinting that the Spurs should probably do something else rather than what they just did.

When Roger Mason comes in and the Mavs go on a 6-0 run in the next minute, I'd like to hear a former pro be negative about it so I can agree.