Rude Awakening for us Spurs fans. We need to accept it.

[Tito_Trinidad]

Popovich has changed D for offense. We r gonna have a rude awakening seeing our team not making the WCF. The whole Duncan era Spurs have never been considered an offensive weapon. Spurs D have won 4 precious Championships. Now, we dont have D, nor offensive to stop opponents D and opponent offense.

Lets break our team D carefully:
1- Tony: a mediocre defender
2- Manu: not even a shadow from 2 years ago
3- Mason: a joke at the defensive end
4- Finley: do i need to say a word?
5- Bonner: look Finley comment!
6- RJefferson: average defender but cant be too aggresive because foul trouble can put Spurs in offensive end problems
7- Duncan: ok......mmmmmmmmm let think my words carefully before the flame war........... My comment about his D right now is a question: is he a force on D right now? Answer yourself such question and conclude.
8- Ratliff: he only blocks one shot per game and nothing else. One block doesnt equal to good D
9- Mcdyess: decent defender but........our paint is nicely protected with him? Hummmmmmmmmmmm?
10- Blair: he is just grabbing some rebounds per game, not much......but his D? Dont lie yourself saying he is a beast. This beast is allowing points in the paint at will.
11- Hill: our best defender. But can he stop Nash, Cp3, DWill, Wade, Rose? You know those PGs will eat him alive. Sad but true my friend.
12-Bogans: good defender but can against guys like Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Granger, Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin, Carter??? Yeah right !!! lol lol.

Come on guys, our D is gone. Our prime defender Bowen is gone, Timmy force on D is not there anymore, Manu speed on hands for steals is over. Our paint is a paradise for our opponents.
Regarding offense, can we win the Ring with offense and this current D? Even more, with this kind of inconsistent offense?

If Spurs dont right the ship, a rude awakening is near the corner. Im not being pesimistic, but with pain im seeing the reality.

[TinTin]

you dont watch the spurs do you

[fusionjazzman72]

Amen. The glory days are through. I will still support my Spurs, but anyone believing we are a championship quality team really should dig deep. Our best days are now in the past. I still don't understand Pop's obsession with Mason as a PG. I truly believe if this was any other team in the league Blair would be starting despite his lack of D.

[rayray2k8]

Fuck it, lets just trade the whole team.
I'm down for a noob meltdown. :tu

[Chomag]

Manu for Andrew Bogut? :stirpot:

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't agree that this is the end. There's plenty, even in the last couple of games, to suggest that this team is as competitive as it's ever been and, when fully healthy, will be a force to be reckoned with. I might be alone in that assessment, but it's what I see.

Nevertheless, if this IS the end, it's been a hell of a 20 year ride.

[neboat]

yup, we are not the elite top 3 or 5 defensive team anymore...but the idea is with the added offense, we only need to be a good, like a top 10 defensive team to succeed. I think it'll take time to get there and will probably need a trade or two...

[FromWayDowntown]

Manu for Andrew Bogut? :stirpot:

Trade a star level guy with injury problems for a fairly average center with injury problems?

[Spursfan092120]

apparently someone has missed the last couple of games..

[101A]

I don't agree that this is the end. There's plenty, even in the last couple of games, to suggest that this team is as competitive as it's ever been and, when fully healthy, will be a force to be reckoned with. I might be alone in that assessment, but it's what I see.

Nevertheless, if this IS the end, it's been a hell of a 20 year ride.

You are NOT alone.

[benefactor]

FzzR6OUdV94

[Quiet Strength]

I think the spurs defense looks like it is improving. It's their offense that is their weakness.. their shot selection and ball movement has been very bad and as always.. free throws! They miss way too many. But yeah as for their defense.. I think it is looking better each game. Of course they make mistakes but its early in the season and its going to take time for them to get used to playing as a team.

[Spursfan 87]

defense is not the problem. The problem is that we are not executing down the stretch.

[Chomag]

We have yet to play any true contender so not really much to guage how we stand on defense or offense yet.

[LOL@MavsFan]

Popovich has changed D for offense. We r gonna have a rude awakening seeing our team not making the WCF. The whole Duncan era Spurs have never been considered an offensive weapon. Spurs D have won 4 precious Championships. Now, we dont have D, nor offensive to stop opponents D and opponent offense.

Lets break our team D carefully:
1- Tony: a mediocre defender
2- Manu: not even a shadow from 2 years ago
3- Mason: a joke at the defensive end
4- Finley: do i need to say a word?
5- Bonner: look Finley comment!
6- RJefferson: average defender but cant be too aggresive because foul trouble can put Spurs in offensive end problems
7- Duncan: ok......mmmmmmmmm let think my words carefully before the flame war........... My comment about his D right now is a question: is he a force on D right now? Answer yourself such question and conclude.
8- Ratliff: he only blocks one shot per game and nothing else. One block doesnt equal to good D
9- Mcdyess: decent defender but........our paint is nicely protected with him? Hummmmmmmmmmmm?
10- Blair: he is just grabbing some rebounds per game, not much......but his D? Dont lie yourself saying he is a beast. This beast is allowing points in the paint at will.
11- Hill: our best defender. But can he stop Nash, Cp3, DWill, Wade, Rose? You know those PGs will eat him alive. Sad but true my friend.
12-Bogans: good defender but can against guys like Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Granger, Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin, Carter??? Yeah right !!! lol lol.

Come on guys, our D is gone. Our prime defender Bowen is gone, Timmy force on D is not there anymore, Manu speed on hands for steals is over. Our paint is a paradise for our opponents.
Regarding offense, can we win the Ring with offense and this current D? Even more, with this kind of inconsistent offense?

If Spurs dont right the ship, a rude awakening is near the corner. Im not being pesimistic, but with pain im seeing the reality.

Typical "fan" ready to mail it in w/ 72 games to go.....there's always a thread started like this when things aren't going well. No D, huh? Give it a chance...it's a new team w/ a lot on new players. If you were a real fan you'd understand that. Go watch the Lakers.

[neboat]

We have yet to play any true contender so not really much to guage how we stand on defense or offense yet.

We would get slaughtered if we played one of the true contenders right now.... we've got a lot to improve..

[cherylsteele]

Where are these new posters coming from anyways?
The "D" is markedly improving, or do you not watch the games?
Sure there are holes on the "D", but all is not lost like the OP suggest, in fact I think it is quite the opposite. I feel if the D is there the Spurs will be in nearly every game with a chance to win, and as the offense gets set and players come back, it will only get better.

I still feel that Ratliff will be very valuable, in a Kevin Willis-like role down the stretch.

[SA210]

Not having Bruce was going to equal failure. See last year.

[DesignatedT]

your an idiot.

[austN Spur]

I just want to see another game because its hard to believe whats going on. the losses are starting to add up and i cant say ive seen the spurs put together a game that you can be excited about. shit or even a half.(ive missed 2 wins this season so far.) is this the ten year jinx coming back for another number one pick, i hope not

[SA210]

Not having Bruce was going to equal failure. See last year.

[SpurNation]

Our defense needs some offensive punch to help it not be so demanding. On it's own merit...our defense hasn't been all that bad except for one game this year. Factor in injured key players, new faces, and having to insert players out of their comfort/abilities is it any wonder it seems like a nightmare right now?

I don't think this team has "woken" up yet to consider anything rude about what's happened so far.

Wake me up in February if it's the same as it is now.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs D has actually been pretty good in the four games since the abortion of the Toronto game, holding their opponents to less than 42% shooting in that span. They've been rebounding at a decent clip too. These last few games have been strictly about not having sufficient offensive firepower with the injuries.

[SAGambler]

Not having Bruce was going to equal failure. See last year.

Yeah, last year turned out really great, didn't it?

[louie1674]

Yeah, the Spurs are terrible... remember in '99 when the Spurs started 6-8. I about went to Houston to become a Rockets fan. Then in '03 the Spurs were doing fine until they lost 4 straight to be 9-10. Yup, that year I burned my DRob and TDuncan Rookie Cards along with all my Jerseys.
I watch the game and I think we have a damn good chance to win it, we just need to overcome the injury bug.
I take the SPURS in the Finals to win in 5... GO SPURS GO!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

Not having Bruce was going to equal failure. See last year.

Talk about stubborn . . . .

[Blackjack]

I don't agree that this is the end. There's plenty, even in the last couple of games, to suggest that this team is as competitive as it's ever been and, when fully healthy, will be a force to be reckoned with. I might be alone in that assessment, but it's what I see.

Nevertheless, if this IS the end, it's been a hell of a 20 year ride.

I don't believe you can say this is the end, but it'd be a little disingenuous to say it's not a possibility; as far as championship-aspirations are concerned.

I agree that this team, when full healthy, is no doubt a force to be reckoned with. I never viewed them as the odds-on favorite to win a title after the moves they made this offseason, but I certainly believed with the right move, or a fortuitous bounce or two, that a title was definitely within reach..

Fact of the matter is, this team's odds of being fully healthy aren't all that great..

Tim's playing on knees that aren't going to improve, and the type of performance you saw against the Mavericks is pretty much the type of player you'll see in April, May, and Jeebus willing, June; still plenty in the tank but the fuel isn't the high-octane substance that used to aid in blowing people's doors off.

Manu had one of the biggest layoffs of his career after an injury-riddled '09 and before he could even find his confidence and rhythm, a hamstring and groin sidelined him; two injuries known to linger and not something you want an aging player to be dealing with. It's much more likely that Manu could come back an re-aggravate the injury or, in his compensation for the previous injury, suffer a different but related injury.

I'm only going to mention Tim and Manu because, honestly, they're the two most important players in my eyes. Tony has become the number-one option but this team doesn't win a championship without Tim and Manu being Tim and Manu..

The Big 3, as far as I'm concerned, have earned the right to ride this thing until the wheels fall off. I can't say it won't most likely end a painful ending but there is, how ever slight it might be, a chance the stars align, a good move is made, and another title is won.

The question is: How does Pop's loyalty to the Big 3 affect the decision's moving forward?

Tim isn't going anywhere, but if the Spurs see the opportunity to pair him with a stud front-court player on the better side of thirty? You've got to wonder if they'd pull the trigger if it meant Tony or Manu..

You're banking on the Big 3 and their health, or you're not.

Either way, I'm fine with it.

I became a fan just before Dave got here and I'll be a fan after Duncan's gone; a grateful fan.

[spurspokesman]

fzzr6oudv94
lmao lmao

[SpurNation]

The question is: How does Pop's loyalty to the Big 3 affect the decision's moving forward?

Tim isn't going anywhere, but if the Spurs see the opportunity to pair him with a stud front-court player on the better side of thirty? You've got to wonder if they'd pull the trigger if it meant Tony or Manu..

You're banking on the Big 3 and their health, or you're not.

Either way, I'm fine with it.

I became a fan just before Dave got here and I'll be a fan after Duncan's gone; a grateful fan.

Like Brendon Haywood?

And like you...a greatful fan no matter what happens this year. :toast

[spurspokesman]

We have yet to play any true contender so not really much to guage how we stand on defense or offense yet.
Yeah and were getting our asses handed to us so theres your gauge. At this point we look like pop tarts to the other contenders. Im still on board but this s*** is painful to watch at times.

[DxB]

the original poster is right, at this point after the games watched, wat other conclusion are you gonna come to?

That said theres more games... but shit looks weak right now

[ElNono]

You are NOT alone.

:stupid:

:lol

[spurtilldeath]

We have yet to play any true contender so not really much to guage how we stand on defense or offense yet.

That is the most stupid thing I have heard. If you can't play well, how does it matter if the opponent is a true contender or not?

[ElNono]

Tim isn't going anywhere, but if the Spurs see the opportunity to pair him with a stud front-court player on the better side of thirty? You've got to wonder if they'd pull the trigger if it meant Tony or Manu..


Like who? Unless that front-court player is an actual star, I don't think they would...

[phyzik]

In case you guys didnt notice, there's already an official meltdown thread on the message board.

[Whisky Dog]

I hope we get a chance to see what this team can do when healthy. If they ever get healthy.

[Whisky Dog]

In case you guys didnt notice, there's already an official meltdown thread on the message board.

We don't recognize "official".


Puppet.

[austN Spur]

its not about melting down.but if ignore these problem or these bad games, then when the good times come then they wont be as sweet when the spurs do win

oh shit time for talking cowboys

[Chomag]

That is the most stupid thing I have heard. If you can't play well, how does it matter if the opponent is a true contender or not?

My comment wasn't made because of how the Spurs are currently playing. People here are saying our defense is looking good and even that our offense is fine that we are just missing Manu and Tony. I"m not so sure yet and hold true judgment on how it looks until we see it against elite contender teams.

Scoring 100+ points against the raptors, or holding crappy teams to low percentages when they naturally shoot low percentages is not anything to be proud of

[ffadicted]

This is retarded. At the end, you were basically saying "x is a good defender, but can he stop kobe bryant/dwyane wade/michael jordan"

Think before you post bro

[SouthTexasRancher]

Popovich has changed D for offense. We r gonna have a rude awakening seeing our team not making the WCF. The whole Duncan era Spurs have never been considered an offensive weapon. Spurs D have won 4 precious Championships. Now, we dont have D, nor offensive to stop opponents D and opponent offense.

Lets break our team D carefully:
1- Tony: a mediocre defender
2- Manu: not even a shadow from 2 years ago
3- Mason: a joke at the defensive end
4- Finley: do i need to say a word?
5- Bonner: look Finley comment!
6- RJefferson: average defender but cant be too aggresive because foul trouble can put Spurs in offensive end problems
7- Duncan: ok......mmmmmmmmm let think my words carefully before the flame war........... My comment about his D right now is a question: is he a force on D right now? Answer yourself such question and conclude.
8- Ratliff: he only blocks one shot per game and nothing else. One block doesnt equal to good D
9- Mcdyess: decent defender but........our paint is nicely protected with him? Hummmmmmmmmmmm?
10- Blair: he is just grabbing some rebounds per game, not much......but his D? Dont lie yourself saying he is a beast. This beast is allowing points in the paint at will.
11- Hill: our best defender. But can he stop Nash, Cp3, DWill, Wade, Rose? You know those PGs will eat him alive. Sad but true my friend.
12-Bogans: good defender but can against guys like Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Granger, Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin, Carter??? Yeah right !!! lol lol.

Come on guys, our D is gone. Our prime defender Bowen is gone, Timmy force on D is not there anymore, Manu speed on hands for steals is over. Our paint is a paradise for our opponents.
Regarding offense, can we win the Ring with offense and this current D? Even more, with this kind of inconsistent offense?

If Spurs dont right the ship, a rude awakening is near the corner. Im not being pesimistic, but with pain im seeing the reality.



Thank you Tito "Mavette Fan" Trinidad...

It is painfully obvious you have neither watched the Spurs games this season, nor have you ever watched them in previous seasons....mainly under the reign of Coach Pop.

We have not even played 10 games and you are writing them off as 'has-beens'. We have a boatload of new players who are still trying to get locked into the Spurs system and yet you are poo pooing them as nobody's. You have obviously never played any kind of team sport so that you would understand team chemistry does not come over night. Sometimes a team can look good early on only to falter down the stretch. Pop prefers to build his house with a firm foundation. For now he is looking at the overall situation for the long run, i.e., the playoffs. To do this he is looking at various combinations to see how the players react with one another and which of those combos work the best.

In some ways it can be a good thing having Tony and Manu out. Personally I wish Pop would keep both out for at least a month and get them totally healed. He tends to fall to the pressure of a player's desire to get back into action and puts them in before they are physically ready (healed completely).

I personally don't expect our defense to really start jelling until after the All Star break. It is possible that by the trade deadline Pop might find a good trade that will bring us someone who can fit in easily and help us go the distance. Odds are that will not happen but, there is always that possibly. We definitely need a true center in the 7' range who is mobile and plays strong 'D'. That is very unlikely though, but we can wish.

I don't know for sure but, it seems like you are the type of person who gets in a fight and gets knocked down with your opponent's first punch and while laying flat on your back you cover your face with your hands while yelling and screaming, No más, No más...!!!

[Tp9gospursgo]

These couple games we actually have been solid on D just missed shots offensively.

[elec99]

We held good teams to the low 90s, which is actually great defense. But our firepower is injured, thus less than great offense.
But here's the thing: I predicted that 2 of our Big 3 would be injured at some time during the season (no brainer), I had no clue that ALL 3 would be hurt before the first 10 games were even finished. What happened to all the summer rest and short training camp? Doesn't paint a good picture of their health in the remaining 72 games.

When they come back, they will be fighting uphill which means they have to be playing great, not good, to get themselves out of, say, a 6-8 hole. They have to be doing better (not as good, but better) than the 1-5 seed teams if they want to place higher than a 6.

[SouthTexasRancher]

These couple games we actually have been solid on D just missed shots offensively.

Better but, not solid.....just yet We're still getting beat too many times on the pick & roll and getting killed on baseline slams because of losing a player (4 on 5) on defense on the baseline. This will clear itself up through film and practice time. The advantage we used to have on defense when we had two legitimat bigs (like a Tim & DRob) was Pop's system of funneling from the outside into the paint. Tim & Dice playing together at the same time should get pretty good at this but, it'll take a little time because all 5 on the floor have to understand and believe in it. It would still be nice if we had a legit 7'er with long arms to be able to compete with the likes of LA and Boston, among a few others.

[SA210]

Yeah, last year turned out really great, didn't it?

No it didn't, and because Bruce hardly ever played.

[SA210]

Talk about stubborn . . . .

You're damn right. It was a huge mistake to let him go. They paid Bogans a mill, but yet, couldn't keep Bruce and pay His salary. I find that terribly interesting.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree to an extent, but the OP's post was pretty bad..

Our defense has actually looked pretty good the last few games..Duncan played a dominant defensive game vs. Dallas, and he was good again against Utah..he's definitely still a force IMO, although not nearly as good as he was in his prime(obviously)..he's no longer able to carry a D..

We've actually jumped up 6 spots in the last week..there's still a big problem though, hopefully it continues to improve..

Before we address the interior D, we need to fix the perimeter D..desperately..the big men on our team are helpless when the perimeter defenders are allowing constant penetration..the defense will NEVER be good enough to win games with Finley and Mason in the rotation, it just won't happen..the worst thing is that we actually have lineups with Parker/Finley/Mason together, and sometimes Bonner sprinkled in..that's 1 average defensive big man with 3 bad defenders..

Finley and Mason are 2 of the top 10 worst defensive players in the entire league, no question about it..

We could definitely use another big next to Duncan, but Bogans and Hairston need to be ahead of both Mason and Finley for the D to noticeably improve IMO, and Pop isn't going to let that happen IMO..

[portnoy1]

You're damn right. It was a huge mistake to let him go. They paid Bogans a mill, but yet, couldn't keep Bruce and pay His salary. I find that terribly interesting.
I liked Bruce too, I didnt agree with the fact that he wasnt playing. However paying bruce at 38yrs old and paying bogans at 29yrs old $1million is a big difference. Its like telling shaq, I'll pay you $million instead of Dwight Howard. Granted Shaq is older and more gifted in certain respects cause he has been in the league. DHoward is younger and has potential and does basically the same thing, Defend the paint. Bruce and Bogans do the same thing, Play perimeter D. However bogans is younger and has an opportunity to get better in the spurs system with experience.

[Strike]

The losses have been irritating but I'm not worried. Now, if this continues into the new year, then I'll be worried.

[weebo]

I think this team is starting to gel quite nicely. The record might not reflect that but if you look at the games closely this team is starting to figure things out. Once the new guys adjust better to the how things run, I'm sure they'll go on a short run and people will stop bitching.

[portnoy1]

Better but, not solid.....just yet We're still getting beat too many times on the pick & roll and getting killed on baseline slams because of losing a player (4 on 5) on defense on the baseline. This will clear itself up through film and practice time. The advantage we used to have on defense when we had two legitimat bigs (like a Tim & DRob) was Pop's system of funneling from the outside into the paint. Tim & Dice playing together at the same time should get pretty good at this but, it'll take a little time because all 5 on the floor have to understand and believe in it. It would still be nice if we had a legit 7'er with long arms to be able to compete with the likes of LA and Boston, among a few others.
That 2 7footers thing was BEAUTIFUL. Tim was agile and would come over and block or alter a shot and DROB would secure the paint and grab the rebound. If anyone has a chance, watch the 99' finals and what this guy said up above is exactly what the spurs would do. Its something we continued doing till DALLAS 06' WSF. Thats when the spurs started to decline and the tires started getting more and more nails stuck in them. We have cleaned the body of the spurs W/ additions of RJ/DICE/Blair/Ratliff/Bogans but the we cant go anywhere if the paint is not defended.

[HarlemHeat37]

Our defense was fine even without legit 7 footers though..Oberto was a respectable defender that wasn't spectacular, similar to McDyess..Horry was a very good defender, but he was old and wasn't anywhere near 7 feet tall..

The perimeter defense is significantly worse than it used to be..Parker was a better defender before, Ginobili used to be a very good defender(he's still good), Bowen was one of the best in the NBA..

We don't have a Bruce Bowen anymore, but we still have some capable guys on D..more depth on the perimeter from a defensive standpoint compared to the last few years of the elite era..Hill, Hairston, and Bogans are all good defenders..but the team continues to rely on Mason and Finley to play defense, and that's suicide..that's step 1..

[UnWantedTheory]

No it didn't, and because Bruce hardly ever played.

Yes of course! I see it now! A 38 year old Bruce who lost a few steps is our savior.

[Sisk]

http://www.adaringadventure.com/blog/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/cliff-jumper.jpg
:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

[SpurNation]

our defense was fine even without legit 7 footers though..oberto was a respectable defender that wasn't spectacular, similar to mcdyess..horry was a very good defender, but he was old and wasn't anywhere near 7 feet tall..

The perimeter defense is significantly worse than it used to be..parker was a better defender before, ginobili used to be a very good defender(he's still good), bowen was one of the best in the nba..

We don't have a bruce bowen anymore, but we still have some capable guys on d..more depth on the perimeter from a defensive standpoint compared to the last few years of the elite era..hill, hairston, and bogans are all good defenders..but the team continues to rely on mason and finley to play defense, and that's suicide..that's step 1..

this.

[Höfner]

I am rudely awakened every morning by the alarm clock.

[Marcus Bryant]

Manu for Andrew Bogut? :stirpot:

I hate Spurs fans.

[manu the best]

right now everything about the spurs sucks .. the spurs fans have been too nice to the team .. the spurs are forgetting the worth of the fan .. they should realize our worth really soon .. or else at&t will like the bobcats arena ..

[NRHector]

right now everything about the spurs sucks .. the spurs fans have been too nice to the team .. the spurs are forgetting the worth of the fan .. they should realize our worth really soon .. or else at&t will like the bobcats arena ..or the Supersonics

[Chomag]

I hate Spurs fans.

If you honestly thought I was being serious with this then you sir need a life.

However I do thank you for calling me a "Spurs fan", but what does that make you I might ask?

[Blackjack]

Like Brendon Haywood?


Like who? Unless that front-court player is an actual star, I don't think they would...

I hope the Haywood suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, at least as it pertains to Tony and Manu..

My point wasn't who they could get as much as what Pop would do if given the opportunity. If you want a name or two though, I'm willing to bet Manu and his expiring contract could get you your choice of Okafor or West..

My question is more of a hypothetical.

Let's just say, again, hypothetically, that Toronto gets wind that Bosh has no intention of re-signing. The team's a middle-of-the-pack bunch that has no delusions of championship grandeur. Felt they've got the proverbial gun-to-the-head they're forced to explore the trade market.

Now, let's just say Parker gets you Bosh. There's definitely pros and cons for and against making that deal but, nonetheless, you could make an argument Bosh gives you more than what you'd lose in Parker; at least in terms of the championship window with Tim and Manu.

So if Pop believed that to be true, what would he do; not what would you or I do, but what do you think he would do?

I honestly don't know the answer..

[ElNono]

I hope the Haywood suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, at least as it pertains to Tony and Manu..

My point wasn't who they could get as much as what Pop would do if given the opportunity. If you want a name or two though, I'm willing to bet Manu and his expiring contract could get you your choice of Okafor or West..

My question is more of a hypothetical.

Let's just say, again, hypothetically, that Toronto gets wind that Bosh has no intention of re-signing. The team's a middle-of-the-pack bunch that has no delusions of championship grandeur. Felt they've got the proverbial gun-to-the-head they're forced to explore the trade market.

Now, let's just say Parker gets you Bosh. There's definitely pros and cons for and against making that deal but, nonetheless, you could make an argument Bosh gives you more than what you'd lose in Parker; at least in terms of the championship window with Tim and Manu.

So if Pop believed that to be true, what would he do; not what would you or I do, but what do you think he would do?

I honestly don't know the answer..

I honestly believe Pop thinks he's got enough for a championship with the current roster...

[Blackjack]

I honestly believe Pop thinks he's got enough for a championship with the current roster...

That wasn't the question I was asking, though.

The question strikes more to the heart of making a good basketball decision or one of loyalty. (Thanks for the Manu translation, by the way.:toast)

[SpurNation]

I hope the Haywood suggestion was tongue-in-cheek, at least as it pertains to Tony and Manu..

My point wasn't who they could get as much as what Pop would do if given the opportunity. If you want a name or two though, I'm willing to bet Manu and his expiring contract could get you your choice of Okafor or West..

My question is more of a hypothetical.

Let's just say, again, hypothetically, that Toronto gets wind that Bosh has no intention of re-signing. The team's a middle-of-the-pack bunch that has no delusions of championship grandeur. Felt they've got the proverbial gun-to-the-head they're forced to explore the trade market.

Now, let's just say Parker gets you Bosh. There's definitely pros and cons for and against making that deal but, nonetheless, you could make an argument Bosh gives you more than what you'd lose in Parker; at least in terms of the championship window with Tim and Manu.

So if Pop believed that to be true, what would he do; not what would you or I do, but what do you think he would do?

I honestly don't know the answer..

As pertaining to Tony and Manu...yeah...Haywood was a tongue and cheek response.

But since you elaborated more...your scenario (hypothetical) analysis bares more intuitive thought to this season. Especially considering a very small window in the career of Tim Duncan and what he might (might not) be able to do in the next few years after this season.

Let's take a closer look at this season. Who's the main competition going into a playoff series and finals scenario? Argueably it would be the Lakers and the Celtics.

How do the Spurs match up with those two teams? Not very well considering the depth and talent the Lakers and Celtics have in the post.

Could the Spurs win against those two teams with Parker, Duncan, Jefferson, Ginobili, Hill, and Mcdyess as this team's key players? Or would they have a better chance of winning with a team that is sans Parker for another post player such as Bosh?

I wouldn't even try to enter the mind of Pop. Most probably would go insane if they did. So just from a pure basketball perspective of what the Spurs might have to face in the playoffs...I would not be opposed to trading Parker for Bosh if it also included a decent PG in that trade.

I look at the window the team has now to win. I don't know if Pop does the same.

And like you...I honestly don't have an answer either. :toast

[admiralsnackbar]

Bosh would be a fine replacement for Duncan, but I don't see the two of them playing well together given the similarity of their styles. Bosh has patterned himself after Duncan too much for him to not crowd Timmy's space.

[portnoy1]

As pertaining to Tony and Manu...yeah...Haywood was a tongue and cheek response.

But since you elaborated more...your scenario (hypothetical) analysis bares more intuitive thought to this season. Especially considering a very small window in the career of Tim Duncan and what he might (might not) be able to do in the next few years after this season.

Let's take a closer look at this season. Who's the main competition going into a playoff series and finals scenario? Argueably it would be the Lakers and the Celtics.

How do the Spurs match up with those two teams? Not very well considering the depth and talent the Lakers and Celtics have in the post.

Could the Spurs win against those two teams with Parker, Duncan, Jefferson, Ginobili, Hill, and Mcdyess as this team's key players? Or would they have a better chance of winning with a team that is sans Parker for another post player such as Bosh?

I wouldn't even try to enter the mind of Pop. Most probably would go insane if they did. So just from a pure basketball perspective of what the Spurs might have to face in the playoffs...I would not be opposed to trading Parker for Bosh if it also included a decent PG in that trade.

I look at the window the team has now to win. I don't know if Pop does the same.

And like you...I honestly don't have an answer either. :toast
There it is, you said it I didnt. Bosh/Calderon for Parker/Mason/Bonner. Bosh playing next to Tim and Calderon being a solid backup to hill or starter if you want a nice smooth offense to start the game.

[SpurNation]

Bosh would be a fine replacement for Duncan, but I don't see the two of them playing well together given the similarity of their styles. Bosh has patterned himself after Duncan too much for him to not crowd Timmy's space.

I see Duncan (in a Bosh/Duncan tandum) more in the role Robinson played when Duncan first came to San Antonio. I don't think he would mind relinquishing some of the more physical and athletic demanding parts of his game if a young Bosh were on the team to play that role.

[portnoy1]

Bosh would be a fine replacement for Duncan, but I don't see the two of them playing well together given the similarity of their styles. Bosh has patterned himself after Duncan too much for him to not crowd Timmy's space.
Bosh is more of a perimeter PF with some post moves, ala DWEST. He can also shoot the 3. He would not invade Timmys space by any means. He can also guard the athletic PF's in the league. DIRK/WEST and importantly ODOM.

[Chieflion]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62910/20091120/bosh_is_tired_of_being_disrespected/ -Bosh working on the media. Since some of you guys are on the topic.

Raptors forward Chris Bosh doesn't understand why he doesn't get as much attention as some of the NBA's other stars. "Every day I turn on the TV and they're talking about guys, especially my draft class, '03 draft class, and this and that," he said. "They keep bringing up all these and I never hear my name, unless I'm like second honorable mention or something like that. I got tired of that.
"I don't even think people know I've made all-star teams or know what I've done in this league."
Bosh is averaging 26.8 points and 12.3 rebounds this season.
He ranks seventh in scoring and second in rebounding.
"I always thought of myself as a good basketball player, but after a while I really wanted to turn the corner. I looked at all the other guys who are considered top guys and I was tired of not having my name mentioned," he added.
"I wanted to do the necessary work to make sure I put myself in a situation to be successful."




What does he mean? Is he considering leaving Toronto? Is he hinting managment to something? Is his motivation to win?

[SpurNation]

You think Tony would like to be in a predominately french city? :stirpot:

[admiralsnackbar]

You think Tony would like to be in a predominately french city? :stirpot:
Montreal doesn't have a team, alas.

[SpurNation]

Montreal doesn't have a team, alas.

:lol Talking about a rude awakening. I was thinking of Quebec (not far from Toronto) and in general the high populas of French speaking people and culture of Canada. But you're correct...Toronto has the least French influence of all the major cities in Canada.

Still...it does boast a high number of French influenced activities and culture as does a lot of Canadian cities.

Also...with regards to Eva I just found this out:

http://www.personaltours.ca/toronto-info.htm

Toronto's theatre district is second in size, only to New York city. Award-winning, theatre productions enjoy long runs, large audiences and world premieres in the theatre district of Toronto.

[SpurNation]

There it is, you said it I didnt. Bosh/Calderon for Parker/Mason/Bonner. Bosh playing next to Tim and Calderon being a solid backup to hill or starter if you want a nice smooth offense to start the game.

Would be nice if it were allowed. But that trade scenario does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

And even if it did...it would place the Spurs at paying appx. 4 mil more in salary than already paying. Not including penalty.

[ElNono]

What does he mean? Is he considering leaving Toronto? Is he hinting managment to something? Is his motivation to win?

That whole 'I don't get enough respect and I need to talk to the media about it' tantrum wouldn't bode well with the likes of Pop...

[HarlemHeat37]

We aren't getting Bosh..

[Mel_13]

There it is, you said it I didnt. Bosh/Calderon for Parker/Mason/Bonner.


Would be nice if it were allowed. But that trade scenario does not satisfy the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


It actually does satisfy the provisions of the CBA. It does not, however, satisfy the provisions of common sense for Toronto

[pawe]

A lot of posters here are going to eat crow at the end of the season.

[mabrignani]

3- Mason: a joke at the defensive end


demarcus ware is a beast at defensive end

[rascal]

That 2 7footers thing was BEAUTIFUL. Tim was agile and would come over and block or alter a shot and DROB would secure the paint and grab the rebound. If anyone has a chance, watch the 99' finals and what this guy said up above is exactly what the spurs would do. Its something we continued doing till DALLAS 06' WSF. Thats when the spurs started to decline and the tires started getting more and more nails stuck in them. We have cleaned the body of the spurs W/ additions of RJ/DICE/Blair/Ratliff/Bogans but the we cant go anywhere if the paint is not defended.

good post. The defense in the paint needs an upgrade. That 99 team was the best defensive team the spurs had. Shaq even said if was not fair that the spurs had two dominant post players. Thats why the spurs need to get a player like Camby before the trade deadline.

[portnoy1]

good post. The defense in the paint needs an upgrade. That 99 team was the best defensive team the spurs had. Shaq even said if was not fair that the spurs had two dominant post players. Thats why the spurs need to get a player like Camby before the trade deadline.
Unfortunately the other side of that is that the league has changed somewhat. The PF on several teams can consistently shoot the midrange jumper. Better yet they prefer it. And they like to drive to the basket as well. Dirk/West/Green/Murphy/Odom/Lewis are all capable of doing it. Therefore Duncan, as much as he likes to be called a PF is no match defensively for these guys. In 99 and even 03 he could step out and move his feet. Now he has a bad knee and struggles on occasion to play his own man in the post. Duncan is going to play Center regardless of what he says. The Center anchors the defense, which is something TD is still good at. What we need is a F/C that is tall, can block shots and move his feet. That way Tim can protect the paint while these agile PF in the league can be played by 1 man instead of tons of double teams that breakdown your entire defensive scheme. Who can do all that? Birdman(Nuggets) Camby(Clippers-possibly, im not sure about his mobility) Bargnani(Raptors-its possible, but his attitude toward the defensive end is????)After that im not to sure there are many other guys that have the ability to play 1on1 defense against the likes of an agile Perimeter PF. Dice did a solid job on Dirk, we need to see how he does against the other PF's mentioned though. All the guys I mentioned have a different/similiar type game. So the Jury is still out on Dice' defense against these guys.

[50Bestspurever]

I have been a long time spurs fan. the ping pong gods have been good to us. enjoy every fucking single minute while u can.

[portnoy1]

I have been a long time spurs fan. the ping pong gods have been good to us. enjoy every fucking single minute while u can.
Oh I am. The most for me is 2 per season. I've been to 3 games this season more than I have in any previous season, and its only November. I intend to go to many more this season. Holt dug deep in his texas size wallet and paid texas size $$$$ to get a contending team. We owe it to him to make the last years of TD's career something that didnt go by without notice. Wouldnt you say?:king

[Capt Bringdown]

I'm not seeing anything the Spurs or anyone else can do to counter the Lakers Kobe + Twin 7fters juggernaut. And with Bynum averaging nearly 20 and 12 and if Gasol is able to return to form, we might be looking at Kobe + Twin ALL STAR 7fters juggernaut.
That's going to be damn near unbeatable in the PO.

IMO, the story is less about the Spurs decline but the wildly improbable Gasol trade that changed NBA history.

[Indazone]

lol just go out and resign Bruce Bowen and Horry.

[rascal]

lol just go out and resign Bruce Bowen and Horry.

Not so funny when there are enough people in here who would want that to happen.

[SpurNation]

It actually does satisfy the provisions of the CBA. It does not, however, satisfy the provisions of common sense for Toronto

As far as Toronto...maybe not. But where did you find that the provisions were satisfied in that scenario? I did a quick check in realgm and it said it didn't. Not that realgm is the most accurate source. :toast

[Mel_13]

As far as Toronto...maybe not. But where did you find that the provisions were satisfied in that scenario? I did a quick check in realgm and it said it didn't. Not that realgm is the most accurate source. :toast

You're right.

I check these trades with ESPN's Trade Machine, but I must have entered the trade incorrectly. Just checked again and the trade does indeed fail.

[Chieflion]

You're right.

I check these trades with ESPN's Trade Machine, but I must have entered the trade incorrectly. Just checked again and the trade does indeed fail.
Kinda strange. I tried it. And it says the trade is successful.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yz78424

[SA210]

lol just go out and resign Bruce Bowen

[Mavs101]

Just like every other year... the Spurs will be there in the playoff race. You can jump back on the wagon anytime you want. There are two things you have to remember about the Spurs. No matter how they start, they finish strong. No matter who is injured, someone will step up in their place. Just like the Mavs, you will see the Spurs in the playoff race.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The Spurs defense has been steadily improving. I realize the sample size is small, but over the last five games the Spurs have the 4th best points allowed in the league and the best opponent's field goal percentage at .402. It has been the offense that has been an issue. I am confident that the offense will come around. This is the beginning of the journey. Some of you guys aren't happy unless you are complaining. You will make some lucky guy a good wife someday.:lobt2:

[Tito_Trinidad]

Which is todays excuse? Spurs are totally healthy. This is all over my friends. Rude awakening: this season is real LAST shot but 2007 was the last chip !!! Sad but true

[mexicanjunior]

Which is todays excuse? Spurs are totally healthy. This is all over my friends. Rude awakening: this season is real LAST shot but 2007 was the last chip !!! Sad but true

Time to enjoy the Spurs championship box set...nothing to look forward to until we get another #1 overall pick.

[Sigz]

Spurs are fucking boring.... Even more so than their regular boring selves.


Along with this new boring, is a fucking pathetic and old ass performance of the same SHIT.

Chucking three's

No defense

Terrible defense

Chucking three's

[HarlemHeat37]

Your opening post was still inaccurate and horrible, even if your overall theory ends up being correct..

[Budkin]

This guy is posting the same thing in like 10 different threads... jesus.

[Tito_Trinidad]

^^^^ i increased someone bleeding

[Tito_Trinidad]

hahhahahahahahahha Welcome to reality !!!!!!!!!!! 2007 trophy should be sold to a non-for-profit organization.