Well, looks like they got their 60 votes in the senate for "health care"

[CosmicCowboy]

The amount of senators stating that they know it's going to be a shitty bill but "don''t worry" it's a work in progress is absolutely disgusting. You can't write a decent bill but you want us to trust you to "come back and fix it?"

Fuck

You!

[admiralsnackbar]

the amount of senators stating that they know it's going to be a shitty bill but "don''t worry" it's a work in progress is absolutely disgusting. You can't write a decent bill but you want us to trust you to "come back and fix it?"

fuck

you!

+1

[EmptyMan]

Fuck ME? ha ha ha. Do you know who I am? You are in no position to do the fucking. Enjoy the lines losers.

[CosmicCowboy]

good point

[exstatic]

Did Lieberman geek, and go along?

[jack sommerset]

After all is said and done, we don't have the money to do this. Politicians being politicians.

[Wild Cobra]

Hopefully they get voted out next year.

[Nbadan]

At least on the books this is budget neutral...nothing Bush ever did was budget neutral..

[jack sommerset]

Hopefully they get voted out next year.

No doubt that will happen. I'm curious if the dems ever get majority in our country ever again.

[CosmicCowboy]

At least on the books this is budget neutral...nothing Bush ever did was budget neutral..

:lmao

budget neutral????

I guess you believe in the fucking tooth fairy too.

[Wild Cobra]

At least on the books this is budget neutral...nothing Bush ever did was budget neutral..
Please...

Are your really that ignorant?

What is said will not come to be. The price will be far higher. Obama's smallest deficit will no doubt be higher than Bush's highest.

[coyotes_geek]

:lol @ budget neutral. The federal government cuts medicare payments and then leaves it up to the states to decide whether they want to come up with that money themselves, or just leave it up to the doctors as to whether or not they want to start dropping patients. That's not budget neutral. That's stiffing someone with the check.

[nkdlunch]

:tu my old aunt can finally get insurance :tu

[CosmicCowboy]

:tu my old aunt can finally get insurance :tu

Well if it's that important to you why haven't you already bought it for her? Now, you are going to pay for her "new" insurance anyway...if you REALLY think it's going to be free you are delusional.

[jack sommerset]

:tu my old aunt can finally get insurance :tu

What prevented her old ass from getting insurance before? A job?

[Shastafarian]

Compassionate Conservatism at its finest.

[jack sommerset]

Here comes the USA citizens. Why in the fuck do we have to pay for your broke ass? 2010 is right around the corner.

[Wild Cobra]

A man either prefers to rely on himself, or someone else.

Conservatives prefer to rely on themselves.

Liberals prefer to rely on government.

Who's the better man?

[jack sommerset]

Compassionate Conservatism at its finest.

Sound compassionate to you now dumbass but when someone you know waits in line for something they could have paid for before this crap, you will think otherwise.

[baseline bum]

A man either prefers to rely on himself, or someone else.

Conservatives prefer to rely on themselves.

Liberals prefer to rely on government.

Who's the better man?

The one who lived on welfare?

[Nbadan]

Social security is a net windfall on the books too....

Shocking!

This plan sucks, but it is a start...

[spursncowboys]

Compassionate Conservatism at its finest. Libs are always compassionate with other people's money

[spursncowboys]

My understanding is they still don't have the votes. They just have votes to get it out of committee.

[Shastafarian]

Libs are always compassionate with other people's money

Liberals don't pay taxes? Sweet!

[boutons_deux]

It's going to take reconciliation to pass the full Senate vote and overcome the health-profit industry's ownerhship of Ben Nelson, etc.

[admiralsnackbar]

It's going to take reconciliation to pass the full Senate vote and overcome the health-profit industry's ownerhship of Ben Nelson, etc.

Obama would only use reconciliation if the bill were good enough to put his name on it, and that is almost certainly not going to happen.

This bill is a dog.

[exstatic]

My understanding is they still don't have the votes. They just have votes to get it out of committee.

Once it's out of committee, it only needs 51 votes to actually pass on a vote on the floor of the Senate. If it can't be bottled up in committee and stopped there, it can't be stopped. Every Republican, Lieberman, and the Blue Dogs can all vote against it, and it will still probably pass with 54-55 votes.

[jack sommerset]

Once it's out of committee, it only needs 51 votes to actually pass on a vote on the floor of the Senate. If it can't be bottled up in committee and stopped there, it can't be stopped. Every Republican, Lieberman, and the Blue Dogs can all vote against it, and it will still probably pass with 54-55 votes.

You knew this day was coming for months. Sad day for Americans.

[balli]

The amount of senators stating that they know it's going to be a shitty bill but "don''t worry" it's a work in progress is absolutely disgusting. You can't write a decent bill but you want us to trust you to "come back and fix it?"

Fuck

You!
Fuck You. If conservatives weren't unpatriotic, lying, obstructionist cowards- the Democrats could've put together better bills, in both the Houser and Senate. Too bad conservatives hate America so much. Truly.

[admiralsnackbar]

Fuck You. If conservatives weren't unpatriotic, lying, obstructionist cowards- the Democrats could've put together better bills, in both the Houser and Senate. Too bad conservatives hate America so much. Truly.

Don't kid yourself, man. The GOP had no part in how terrible this bill turned out.

[balli]

I actually have no idea if the Senate bill is terrible or not. All I know that the rhetoric from the right has been obscene. And thus I don't need to know much about the bill.

I know conservatives set fire to everything they touch. They are wrong about everything. Every single thing. Just that they would be so opposed to this bill and have gone to such hate-filled lengths to distort and maim the debate, tells me that I can feel good about supporting it. If conservatives liked it, it wouldn't exist, or it would be bad for America. That's all I know.

And at the very least, I know that if the GOP hadn't so muddied the debate with lies, or made the political climate so toxic with hate and fear mongering, Democrats wouldn't feel compelled to jam through what they know amounts to a less than perfect bill.

[admiralsnackbar]

I actually have no idea if the Senate bill is terrible or not. All I know that the rhetoric from the right has been obscene. And thus I don't need to know much about the bill.

I know conservatives set fire to everything they touch. They are wrong about everything. Every single thing. They destroyed America, in 8 short years. Just that they would be so opposed to this bill and have gone to such hate-filled lengths to distort and maim the debate, tells me that I can feel good about supporting it. If conservatives liked it, it wouldn't exist, or it would be bad for America. That's all I know.

I can appreciate your passion, but you're making the mistake of believing that Dems are, by design, better than Republicans. On the surface Dem rhetoric is more palatable, but try to remember that Clinton bombed innocents to take the focus off his blow-job.

Putting your faith in a party -- even putting your faith in a politician -- is a recipe for heartbreak.

[jack sommerset]

I actually have no idea if the Senate bill is terrible or not. .



Duh. You might be. If not, you are in top 5 of the dumbest motherfuckers on this board. :lol Keep on posting dumbass!

[admiralsnackbar]

Duh. You might be. If not, you are in top 5 of the dumbest motherfuckers on this board. :lol Keep on posting dumbass!

Said the pot to the kettle :lol

...Coming from the Einstein who "noticed" a chain letter.

[balli]

All I know jackoff is that the democrats don't have America's collapse on their hands. The GOP does. You people are dishonest. Your rhetoric is pointedly hateful and genuinely anti-American. You have no integrity. Or a record of accomplishment to stand on.

I've been busy. I've not read anything healthcare related since the house bill. I don't really need to. The opposition has not earned my trust. In fact, they've earned (and I do mean earned) my automatic distrust.

Maybe as the admiral alluded to the democrats will break my heart? Might could be, but as long as we're talking about faith, I'll take my chances. I'm damn sure not going to get fleeced by the GOP.

[jack sommerset]

All I know jackoff is that the democrats don't have America's collapse on their hands. The GOP does. You people are dishonest. Your rhetoric is pointedly hateful and genuinely anti-American. You have no integrity. Or a record of accomplishment to stand on.

I've been busy. I've not read anything healthcare related since the house bill. I don't really need to. The opposition has not earned my trust. In fact, they've earned (and I do mean earned) my automatic distrust.

Maybe as the admiral alluded to the democrats will break my heart? Might could be, but as long as we're talking about faith, I'll take my chances. I'm damn sure not going to get fleeced by the GOP.

I'm a independent you fucking DUMBASS. :lol "You people" :lol "jackoff" :lol So witty! NOT

[Wild Cobra]

Once it's out of committee, it only needs 51 votes to actually pass on a vote on the floor of the Senate. If it can't be bottled up in committee and stopped there, it can't be stopped. Every Republican, Lieberman, and the Blue Dogs can all vote against it, and it will still probably pass with 54-55 votes.
True.

I can see some republicans helping it out of committee so that a vote finally happens, so America can see who the traitors to American values are. Nothing like an unpopular YES vote election time.

Fuck You. If conservatives weren't unpatriotic, lying, obstructionist cowards- the Democrats could've put together better bills, in both the Houser and Senate. Too bad conservatives hate America so much. Truly.
The have put together their own versions. The democrats wont let then see the light of day.

Too bad you hate America so much.

[jack sommerset]

Said the pot to the kettle :lol

...Coming from the Einstein who "noticed" a chain letter.

Oh my goodness. I post a letter and that makes me a dumbass. STFU loser.

[Wild Cobra]

Oh my goodness. I post a letter and that makes me a dumbass. STFU loser.

Don't you love seeing double digit IQ's?

[spursncowboys]

Don't you love seeing double digit IQ's?

It has electrolytes.

[balli]

I'm a independent
Whatever. I am too.

[admiralsnackbar]

Oh my goodness. I post a letter and that makes me a dumbass. STFU loser.

You didn't even cite it as a letter, for one, Bub. And you stuck up for that pathetic GOP robot garbage, to boot! Now you're going to try to worm out of it and play the "independent" card? GTFO, pal! :lol

[Wild Cobra]

You didn't even cite it as a letter, for one, Bub. And you stuck up for that pathetic GOP robot garbage, to boot! Now you're going to try to worm out of it and play the "independent" card? GTFO, pal! :lol
Seems to me it proves he's not a partisan hack like you.

[clambake]

the welfare baby seems pretty upset today.

whats the matter, wc? did you eat all your government cheese?

[admiralsnackbar]

Seems to me it proves he's not a partisan hack like you.

:lol Wha? Dude... stick it in your rear.

You wish I was a partisan hack so you could put me in a box and define me, but if you check my posts you'll find I'm not an "Obamabot," as much as a person who's not seduced by easy characterizations like you are. If there was a Goldwater republican left in the party, I'd be singing their praises, but it's just Evangelical fascist dipshits now, so I guess I really am "independent."

[jack sommerset]

You didn't even cite it as a letter, for one, Bub. And you stuck up for that pathetic GOP robot garbage, to boot! Now you're going to try to worm out of it and play the "independent" card? GTFO, pal! :lol

U are clueless. Good day fuckface.

[clambake]

chain letter jack

[admiralsnackbar]

U are clueless. Good day fuckface.

Good day yourself, Jack. Don't pretend to be something you aren't... you just undermine your position, amigo.:toast

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Fuck You. If conservatives weren't unpatriotic, lying, obstructionist cowards- the Democrats could've put together better bills, in both the Houser and Senate. Too bad conservatives hate America so much. Truly.
they couldn't put together a better bill so they're racing to give it to us by the end of the year. that's some concept you and the "pro-americans" are going by. props.

[nkdlunch]

Well if it's that important to you why haven't you already bought it for her? Now, you are going to pay for her "new" insurance anyway...if you REALLY think it's going to be free you are delusional.

I wish. I can barely afford to insure my immediate family. Insurance for her is off the charts. And she still young to get medicare.

it won't be free but we'll all chip in. :tu senate

[nkdlunch]

What prevented her old ass from getting insurance before? A job?

well she worked until she was 50 until her body gave up.

[clambake]

well she worked until she was 50 until her body gave up.

they want her to die.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I wish. I can barely afford to insure my immediate family. Insurance for her is off the charts. And she still young to get medicare.

it won't be free but we'll all chip in. :tu senate

hey. i need new tires on my car. will you help me?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Fuck You. If conservatives weren't unpatriotic, lying, obstructionist cowards- the Democrats could've put together better bills, in both the Houser and Senate. Too bad conservatives hate America so much. Truly.
i can't help but feel sorry for you every time i read this. i truly do.

[nkdlunch]

hey. i need new tires on my car. will you help me?

sure. just send me your address and I'll send a check

but comparing tires to healthcare. :lmao

[spursncowboys]

I wish. I can barely afford to insure my immediate family. Insurance for her is off the charts. And she still young to get medicare.

it won't be free but we'll all chip in. :tu senate

budget your money. get rid of your internet is a start. stop putting your bill for products on others. consume what you can afford.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

:tu my old aunt can finally get insurance :tu

i feel sorry for your aunt's situation, but with you and your whole family, outside of bills for rent, electric, food, and utilities, how much do y'all pitch in to help her? serious question.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

sure. just send me your address and I'll send a check

but comparing tires to healthcare. :lmao

i need tires for my car to get to work to help your aunt so i see no difference, really. you can't have your cake and eat it.

[nkdlunch]

budget your money. get rid of your internet is a start. stop putting your bill for products on others. consume what you can afford.

need internet for work.

go check on insurance rates for 50 year old single woman who can't work and come back.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

need internet for work.

go check on insurance rates for 50 year old single woman who can't work and come back.
so she lives by herself?

[nkdlunch]

i feel sorry for your aunt's situation, but with you and your whole family, outside of bills for rent, electric, food, and utilities, how much do y'all pitch in to help her? serious question.

few hundred a month. still not enough I think they quoted her $500 a month for insurance. now that is outrageous.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

few hundred a month. still not enough I think they quoted her $500 a month for insurance. now that is outrageous.
small family? and is that all that is left after all bills? this is with eating in, not going out, go to work, back home, repeat the process and staying in all weekend?

[nkdlunch]

small family?

well she's got 2 sons but they are struggling themselves. nobody else really

[Viva Las Espuelas]

well she's got 2 sons but they are struggling themselves. nobody else really
well for starters they should all move in together to help each other out. that's if she lives alone.

[spursncowboys]

i need tires for my car to get to work to help your aunt so i see no difference, really. you can't have your cake and eat it.
Great point. I didn't think of it like that.
People seem to think it is free. The money has to come from somewhere.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol Wha? Dude... stick it in your rear.

You wish I was a partisan hack so you could put me in a box and define me, but if you check my posts you'll find I'm not an "Obamabot," as much as a person who's not seduced by easy characterizations like you are. If there was a Goldwater republican left in the party, I'd be singing their praises, but it's just Evangelical fascist dipshits now, so I guess I really am "independent."
Just returning the favor you gave to Jack.

[admiralsnackbar]

Great point. I didn't think of it like that.
People seem to think it is free. The money has to come from somewhere.

It's true, but if you work your ass off for some company and they fold, why is it your fault that you suddenly don't have insurance?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Great point. I didn't think of it like that.
People seem to think it is free. The money has to come from somewhere.

this keeps the democratic party in business. at least these days it does. the party of right-now-with-your-money.

[nkdlunch]

well for starters they should all move in together to help each other out. that's if she lives alone.

they already live together. anyway point is millions of ppl in these situation will get affordable insurance. that in my book outweighs the fact that I'll be paying a few hundred a year more on taxes,etc.

ppl will keep bitching but the bill is passing and my aunt will get her medical insurance at reasonable price

[spursncowboys]

P36x8rTb3jI

[Viva Las Espuelas]

they already live together. anyway point is millions of ppl in these situation will get affordable insurance. that in my book outweighs the fact that I'll be paying a few hundred a year more on taxes,etc.

ppl will keep bitching but the bill is passing and my aunt will get her medical insurance at reasonable price

well, i'll be pm'ing you my address any time that i need something to help your aunt and others.

[admiralsnackbar]

Just returning the favor you gave to Jack.

Put some talc on it and enjoy your weekend, WC.

[CosmicCowboy]

they already live together. anyway point is millions of ppl in these situation will get affordable insurance. that in my book outweighs the fact that I'll be paying a few hundred a year more on taxes,etc.

ppl will keep bitching but the bill is passing and my aunt will get her medical insurance at reasonable price

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y6AsrXJsw-0/SspBZrz24II/AAAAAAAAD7w/L8iPdJNKOVw/s400/tooth-fairy-726733.jpg

[spursncowboys]

the socialist err democrats already have a free or low cost medical care for low income and children. Why go beyond that?

[Spurminator]

We're all gonna die!!!!

[MannyIsGod]

Props to Reid should this actually get done.

[spursncowboys]

It's true, but if you work your ass off for some company and they fold, why is it your fault that you suddenly don't have insurance?
That is a great point. I just don't think what they are doing right now will actually fix that problem, or it will create many more problems. I also don't think this is something that will advance our culture or society. I worry at the already large notion of entitlement Americans already have becoming even larger.

[spursncowboys]

Props to Reid should this actually get done.
Yeah great job on buying peoples votes, and keeping it under 2400 pages. That is the work of a real patriot.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah great job on buying peoples votes, and keeping it under 2400 pages. That is the work of a real patriot.

Ah yes - you don't agree with what is being passed therefor Reid is not a patriot.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yeah great job on buying peoples votes, and keeping it under 2400 pages. That is the work of a real patriot.


:lmao

you are a dumbass.. get back to me when you can get a handle on how politics works...

[exstatic]

i need tires for my car to get to work to help your aunt so i see no difference, really. you can't have your cake and eat it.

You can get your tires for probably $400-800, and they should last a couple of years. Her costs will be $500 a month and she has no job because she can't work. Not really close to the same.

[baseline bum]

You can get your tires for probably $400-800, and they should last a couple of years. Her costs will be $500 a month and she has no job because she can't work. Not really close to the same.

Not to mention tires are a luxury item. No one is going to die because he has to take the bus until the next paycheck.

[spursncowboys]

Ah yes - you don't agree with what is being passed therefor Reid is not a patriot.
That is not what I meant. I was being facetious, on the idea that the bill, he himself says, is for the betterment of the country. Way to play the victim card so quickly.

[spursncowboys]

Not to mention tires are a luxury item. No one is going to die because he has to take the bus until the next paycheck.
Just like you can save money by going to the Library to get free internet, there by putting that money you saved into helping out a poor family member who was victimized by the big bad American freedoms.

[baseline bum]

Just like you can save money by going to the Library to get free internet, there by putting that money you saved into helping out a poor family member who was victimized by the big bad American freedoms.

So you agree that Viva's comparison was ridiculous?

[spursncowboys]

So you agree that Viva's comparison was ridiculous?
No. Yours is the ridiculous one. You are implying that someone will die without healthcare. That is not the case.

[CosmicCowboy]

I assume that most of you that are so adamantly supporting universal health care at any cost are what I would call "young and idealistic". The funny thing is that you are EXACTLY the people that are going to pay for it...and pay for it...and pay for it a hundred time over in actual cash out of pocket, lost economic opportunity, unemployment or underemployment and inflation. Oh, I will have to pay my share for the next ten years or so, but after that my health care is gonna be on YOUR dime. I'll have assets and money in the bank to take care of myself and my family. You think it's "right" that the crackhead bumming change from you at the Valero deserves exactly the same health care that you do? That's the "moral" thing to do? Well be careful what you ask for dumb asses...that's exactly what you are gonna get. The wealth that gets spread around will be yours.

[baseline bum]

No. Yours is the ridiculous one. You are implying that someone will die without healthcare. That is not the case.

Silly me. People with cancer should just pray their affliction away. Heart disease is all liberal propoganda. Diabetes and high blood pressure too.

[CosmicCowboy]

Can't you young idealistic kids see the handwriting on the wall? All these new taxes on employers to pay for health care are gonna kill the "good" jobs you want to get after you "grow up". Retail and food service have already adapted. Except for a very few managers they just don't have full time employees. Period. You can expect more and more businesses to adapt this philosophy and/or go to contract employees with no benefits or employer obligations. For every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction. Avoiding onerous and unaffordable legislated employment benefits will be a logical and predictable reaction. Can you say unemployment/underemployment at 25%?

[MannyIsGod]

You know what happens every time you use your hyperbole as if it were a true argument? You lose credibility when it doesn't come true. The rest of the world works fine with universal health care but when we're on the cusp of adding a version that isn't anywhere near a single payer government run system everything is going to fall apart.

If our generation goes broke it won't be because of this CC. It will be because your generation put the bill off on EVERYTHING until our generation had to pay for it.

[MannyIsGod]

That is not what I meant. I was being facetious, on the idea that the bill, he himself says, is for the betterment of the country. Way to play the victim card so quickly.

Victim? :lol

Reid surely isn't a victim here, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[CosmicCowboy]

You know what happens every time you use your hyperbole as if it were a true argument? You lose credibility when it doesn't come true. The rest of the world works fine with universal health care but when we're on the cusp of adding a version that isn't anywhere near a single payer government run system everything is going to fall apart.

If our generation goes broke it won't be because of this CC. It will be because your generation put the bill on YOUR generations SS off on EVERYTHING until our generation had to pay for it.

Don't try to blame this shit on me Manny. I would have opted out of Social Security 40 years ago if I had that option. I have a deep and firm distrust of "government" having my best interests at heart.

And your generation WILL go broke because people like you still believe that there really is a free lunch that those "rich" people will pay for. Every time you vote for a politician that promises more and more freebies you are voting to kill your own financial opportunity. Remember, "rich" is a relative term. At some point in your lifetime anyone with a job will be "rich" and have a target on their back as a revenue generator for the next new and improved social program that buys votes from the uneducated, overpopulating masses who no longer have a need to be concerned about personal responsibility because the "gubment" takes care of them.

[MannyIsGod]

Don't try to blame this shit on me Manny. I would have opted out of Social Security 40 years ago if I had that option. I have a deep and firm distrust of "government" having my best interests at heart.

And your generation WILL go broke because people like you still believe that there really is a free lunch that those "rich" people will pay for. Every time you vote for a politician that promises more and more freebies you are voting to kill your own financial opportunity. Remember, "rich" is a relative term. At some point in your lifetime anyone with a job will be "rich" and have a target on their back as a revenue generator for the next new and improved social program that buys votes from the uneducated, overpopulating masses who no longer have a need to be concerned about personal responsibility because the "gubment" takes care of them.

All of this rings hollow because your generation has run deficit after deficit after deficit after deficit. You've allowed this shit for so long and all I see now is opposition to a program you don't like even though its actually a way to fix the fuck up you and yours have left

See, this is probably a reason why you should never talk about younger/older or any generational bullshit. Your generation built the biggest glass house of all.

[ChumpDumper]

And your generation WILL go brokeWe're already broke from the spending of previous generations. Nothing has really happened because of it yet because no one in the world can comprehend the US doing anything else economically.

[CosmicCowboy]

All of this rings hollow because your generation has run deficit after deficit after deficit after deficit. You've allowed this shit for so long and all I see now is opposition to a program you don't like even though its actually a way to fix the fuck up you and yours have left

See, this is probably a reason why you should never talk about younger/older or any generational bullshit. Your generation built the biggest glass house of all.

Are you fucking kidding? "Social Security" goes back to the 1930's. It's broke. Medicare goes back to the 1950's. It's broke. The "Great Society" and Medicaid and unlimited welfare goes back to the 1960's. It's broke. That wasn't my generation. All I've done is pay into the "trust fund" that wasn't a trust fund at all. The whole thing was a fucking ponzi scheme that makes Barney Madoff look like a small time grifter.

The reason health care is so expensive is because it's so good. There's a cure for almost everything, it's just all damned expensive. Hell, I can remember when I was a kid and if you heard someone had a heart attack your next question was "when is the funeral?" Bad knees, hips, back? Get a cane or a walker. Making "ultimate" health care a right WILL bankrupt this country. Health care rationing will be the ONLY reasonable answer. And yeah, I will resent the hell out of it when I'm 70 years old and get refused for a knee transplant after I paid into medicare for 55 years when the 30 year old crackhead gets a heart transplant because he is "younger".

[spursncowboys]

You know what happens every time you use your hyperbole as if it were a true argument? You lose credibility when it doesn't come true. The rest of the world works fine with universal health care but when we're on the cusp of adding a version that isn't anywhere near a single payer government run system everything is going to fall apart.

If our generation goes broke it won't be because of this CC. It will be because your generation put the bill off on EVERYTHING until our generation had to pay for it.
:lol The rest of the world manages. America has the best healthcare and we have the most advancements in medicine and equipment. The rest of the world get a free lunch from the end result of all our innovation. They don't fit the research bill though.
We are going broke without universal healthcare. We had to cut back on medicaid and medicare but now we are increasing it.

[MannyIsGod]

Are you fucking kidding? "Social Security" goes back to the 1930's. It's broke. Medicare goes back to the 1950's. It's broke. The "Great Society" and Medicaid and unlimited welfare goes back to the 1960's. It's broke. That wasn't my generation. All I've done is pay into the "trust fund" that wasn't a trust fund at all. The whole thing was a fucking ponzi scheme that makes Barney Madoff look like a small time grifter.

The reason health care is so expensive is because it's so good. There's a cure for almost everything, it's just all damned expensive. Hell, I can remember when I was a kid and if you heard someone had a heart attack your next question was "when is the funeral?" Bad knees, hips, back? Get a cane or a walker. Making "ultimate" health care a right WILL bankrupt this country. Health care rationing will be the ONLY reasonable answer.

Yeah Health Care rationing doesn't go on right now. Not at all.

Yeah, SS and Medicare are old programs, yet the deficit started exploding when YOUR generation came into play. Interesting and thanks for pointing that out, CC.

Yes, somehow much of the developed world enjoys health care just as good and better than the United States at lower costs. But they're probably all bankrupt.

[spursncowboys]

Are you fucking kidding? "Social Security" goes back to the 1930's. It's broke. Medicare goes back to the 1950's. It's broke. The "Great Society" and Medicaid and unlimited welfare goes back to the 1960's. It's broke. That wasn't my generation. All I've done is pay into the "trust fund" that wasn't a trust fund at all. The whole thing was a fucking ponzi scheme that makes Barney Madoff look like a small time grifter.

The reason health care is so expensive is because it's so good. There's a cure for almost everything, it's just all damned expensive. Hell, I can remember when I was a kid and if you heard someone had a heart attack your next question was "when is the funeral?" Bad knees, hips, back? Get a cane or a walker. Making "ultimate" health care a right WILL bankrupt this country. Health care rationing will be the ONLY reasonable answer.
That is a great point. So do you think it is valid to say there will be deathbeds as a result from this?

[MannyIsGod]

:lol The rest of the world manages. America has the best healthcare and we have the most advancements in medicine and equipment. The rest of the world get a free lunch from the end result of all our innovation. They don't fit the research bill though.
We are going broke without universal healthcare. We had to cut back on medicaid and medicare but now we are increasing it.

OHHHHHHH, we foot the bill for the rest of the world. I see, well in that case maybe the companies can pass on some of those costs to the rest of the world. That should work out fine.


Honestly, I don't really care anymore to post the facts on health care costs, rationing that already goes on, and health care levels across the world.

Why?

Because healthcare reform is about to be passed so I couldn't give two shits what people like you guys think. I'll enjoy the bankruptcy, thanks.

:)

[CosmicCowboy]

That is a great point. So do you think it is valid to say there will be deathbeds as a result from this?

Hell yeah. They can't avoid health care rationing. It will be the "old peoples" responsibility to take an aspirin for the pain and go off and die quietly.

[spursncowboys]

:tu my old aunt can finally get insurance :tu
Or go to jail.

[spursncowboys]

2.5 Trillion over a decade (allegedly)
Higher premiums, higher taxes and massive cuts to medicare and the public option is in there.

[ChumpDumper]

Death panels!

[ChumpDumper]

2.5 Trillion over a decade (allegedly)How much total is spent on health care annually in the US now?

[CosmicCowboy]

OHHHHHHH, we foot the bill for the rest of the world. I see, well in that case maybe the companies can pass on some of those costs to the rest of the world. That should work out fine.


Honestly, I don't really care anymore to post the facts on health care costs, rationing that already goes on, and health care levels across the world.

Why?

Because healthcare reform is about to be passed so I couldn't give two shits what people like you guys think. I'll enjoy the bankruptcy, thanks.

:)

Manny, your arrogance and lockstep belief in every social program that comes down the pipeline really baffles me. I'm really trying to figure out where you are coming from with your political agenda.

Are you still in school? Do you still live with your parents? Do you have a real job? If so, in generalities what IS your job? Do you totally support yourself? Do you live off student loans?

Don't duck and dodge. Man up dude. State your case. "I am Manny! Hear me roar!"

[CosmicCowboy]

How much total is spent on health care annually in the US now?

Dollar cost is basically irrelevant since the dollar loses value every day we continue to pass bills we can't afford. The projection is that health care will grow to 22% of GDP under the senate bill as opposed to 18% now.

[ChumpDumper]

Dollar cost is basically irrelevant since the dollar loses value every day we continue to pass bills we can't afford. The projection is that health care will grow to 22% of GDP under the senate bill as opposed to 18% now.What is the projected growth of health care costs without the bill?

[CosmicCowboy]

What is the projected growth of health care costs without the bill?

You know, ChumpDumper, I really don't trust any projections. All I can say is that if you add approximately 20 million people to medicaid it's not going to be cheap and someone is going to have to pay for it. The 500 billion in "savings" they are planning to get from medicare is simply dumping that financial responsibility down to the states to come up with the shortfall. It's criminal the way they manipulate the numbers.

[ChumpDumper]

You know, ChumpDumper, I really don't trust any projections.Then why did you post one?

[Nbadan]

Health-care costs are out of control...I've always been for a system where private companies, competing for government business based on set billing-scales for health problems, took care of the minor things up to issues sucha as, out-patient surgery, preventive medicine, all the really important minor to sub-minor stuff, but excluded the major stuff such as organ replacement, certain forms of cancer, hearth-disease, et al...for those we could pull a majority of people into a large insured pool, so that costs are reasonable for the average citizen, and everyone would still have choice as to the type of coverage they want for the stuff that kills most of us..

[CosmicCowboy]

Then why did you post one?

C'mon, you are smarter than Manny. Don't play that game.

[ChumpDumper]

C'mon, you are smarter than Manny. Don't play that game.I think it's a fairly valid question. At the very least it would be nice to have the projection of increase without the bill's passage for comparison.

[Nbadan]

...let's not forget that this is a big political victory for Obama...

[j.dizzle]

don't worry guys it's only a trillion dollars..why waste time actually reading what they're voting for hahaa this country is screwed

[Nbadan]

You know the first trillion is covered by costs cuts in other programs right?

[spursncowboys]

What I love is how offended all the Dems were at the spending by the Repubs in 02-06.

[ChumpDumper]

What I love is how offended all the Dems were at the spending by the Repubs in 02-06.But you, in turn, loved every cent of it.

I personally was offended at the money spent on Iraq.

[CosmicCowboy]

But you, in turn, loved every cent of it.

I personally was offended at the money spent on Iraq.

I sure didn't love every cent of it. I'm offended at Iraq AND Afghanistan. Fuck those backwards ass ragheads. Personally I think we ought to get the fuck out of both places and offer a 100 million reward + 71 damn virgins (we can buy them cheap in El Salvador) + witness protection for Osama Bin Ladens head. Someone in the Taliban will roll.

[CosmicCowboy]

But you, in turn, loved every cent of it.

I personally was offended at the money spent on Iraq.

I sure didn't love every cent of it. I'm offended at Iraq AND Afghanistan. Fuck those backwards ass ragheads. Personally I think we ought to get the fuck out of both places and offer a 100 million reward + 71 damn virgins (we can buy them cheap in El Salvador) + witness protection for Osama Bin Ladens head. Someone in the Taliban will roll.

[balli]

The wealth that gets spread around will be yours.
Not being a selfish fucking asshole, I don't care. In fact, I welcome such a scenario.

But whatever, my judgment doesn't matter... God and Christ approve of hoarding money/possessions and explicitly not helping people in need. I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.

[CosmicCowboy]

Not being a selfish fucking asshole, I don't care. In fact, I welcome such a scenario.

But whatever, my judgment doesn't matter... God and Christ approve of hoarding money/possessions and explicitly not helping people in need. I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.

Fuck you. You don't know me and you don't know what I do and don't do. I am probably the last fucking employer in America that pays 100% of health care for not only my employees but their families. So if you really want to debate health care with me then get some fucking skin in the game asshole. At least the way it is I get to decide what the best health care deal is that I can find for my family and my employees with MY fucking money and not leave it up to some fucking corrupt partisan bitch like Nancy Pelosi.

[balli]

Too bad everyone's not employed by your charitable ass then, huh cc?

[spursncowboys]

But you, in turn, loved every cent of it.

I personally was offended at the money spent on Iraq.
I am ok with spending money for our security. I am not niave enough to think the government can handle 1/6th of our economy successfully. Instead of everyone having good healthcare, I imagine all AMericans, will have bad healthcare. I could believe a little harder in this utopia if the congress put thier belief in it.

[spursncowboys]

You know the first trillion is covered by costs cuts in other programs right?
Yeah because the congress has a record of cutting medicare. Also not paying doctors is not cost cutting. It's stealing.

[ChumpDumper]

I am probably the last fucking employer in America that pays 100% of health care for not only my employees but their families.Well, there's the problem. Very few employers do that and the employer based model is losing its relevance every day.

[ChumpDumper]

I am ok with spending money for our security. I am not niave enough to think the government can handle 1/6th of our economy successfully. Instead of everyone having good healthcare, I imagine all AMericans, will have bad healthcare. I could believe a little harder in this utopia if the congress put thier belief in it.How much of the economy is now government spending?

[CosmicCowboy]

How much of the economy is now government spending?

Rapidly approaching the tipping point. When there are more people in the cart than are pulling the cart the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Not to mention tires are a luxury item. No one is going to die because he has to take the bus until the next paycheck.
i have a doctors note saying i get high anxiety around crowds. life's a bitch.

next?

[ChumpDumper]

Rapidly approaching the tipping point. When there are more people in the cart than are pulling the cart the whole house of cards will come tumbling down.Meaning what?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

So you agree that Viva's comparison was ridiculous?


it's health related. why are you so uncompassionate to my situation?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

how compassionate. blame the "party of no" and the old people for the mess we're in. you "progressives" are a riot.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

You know the first trillion is covered by costs cuts in other programs right?

deficit neutral?

polly wanna cracker?

raaaaahhhhh

[Yonivore]

Meaning what?
I think it means, when you have more piglets sucking on the tit than you have feeding the sow, things dry up and you end up with sow's ears for that silk purse in which to keep your lipstick.

[ChumpDumper]

deficit neutral?

polly wanna cracker?

raaaaahhhhhSo maybe you have the projected growth of health care costs without the bill's passage.

[ChumpDumper]

I think it means, when you have more piglets sucking on the tit than you have feeding the sow, things dry up and you end up with sow's ears for that silk purse in which to keep your lipstick.I'm not talking about cards and pigs.

I'm talking about what you think really happens after this "tipping point" is reached.

No metaphors. Say what you think will really happen.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

the real indicator if this was wanted by the people will be the '10 elections. that, for me, will be a clear indicator. until then i just see more "duck season, wabbit season".

[mogrovejo]

LOL at the analogy with Christian charity. It's easy to do charity with others people money. That's what Obama and the far-left are doing. It's not their money.

[CosmicCowboy]

passed

expect the dollar to take a shit Monday and gold to hit an all time high.

[mogrovejo]

passed

expect the dollar to take a shit Monday and gold to hit an all time high.

Why? Generally this kind of thing is already incorporated by markets, so I wouldn't expect to see that, but this was just a vote to start the debate.

With Obama's popularity dropping bellow 50%, independents putting the blame on dems for the state of the economy more and more and 70% saying that correcting the budget deficit should be a priority even in times of economic crisis, I doubt this bill passes without MAJOR changes.

The fact that dems struggled so much to get the votes to begin the debate is very telling.

[baseline bum]

i have a doctors note saying i get high anxiety around crowds. life's a bitch.

next?

Cute

[CosmicCowboy]

Why? Generally this kind of thing is already incorporated by markets, so I wouldn't expect to see that, but this was just a vote to start the debate.

With Obama's popularity dropping bellow 50%, independents putting the blame on dems for the state of the economy more and more and 70% saying that correcting the budget deficit should be a priority even in times of economic crisis, I doubt this bill passes without MAJOR changes.

The fact that dems struggled so much to get the votes to begin the debate is very telling.

They now only need 51 votes to pass it as is since it's out of committee. At this point democrats are just drawing straws to see who can vote against it on the floor.

[coyotes_geek]

You know the first trillion is covered by costs cuts in other programs right?

You know that's going to adversely affect the quality of care the people in those programs receive, right?

[mogrovejo]

They now only need 51 votes to pass it as is since it's out of committee. At this point democrats are just drawing straws to see who can vote against it on the floor.

Nah, they'll need the 60 votes to bring out a vote of cloture.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i wonder if all the pro-nanny supporters here do charity work or any of the sort currently?........................................ ......................

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Cute
where's your compassion?

[baseline bum]

where's your compassion?

So lifesaving treatment is on par with new tires, XBoxes, and plasma screens? No wonder people think Americans are spoiled.

[clambake]

i wonder if all the pro-nanny supporters here do charity work or any of the sort currently?........................................ ......................

i do. i've talked about it many times.

how about you?

[balli]

i wonder if all the pro-nanny supporters here do charity work or any of the sort currently?........................................ ......................
Not to brag about it. It wouldn't be said otherwise. Since you asked- in that rhetorical/condescending/gaping asshole style of yours?

Just yesterday, I dropped well over a hundred bucks on beans and tuna fish at Costco. Bagged and ready to go to the foodbank.

In the past six months, I've also worked at the Utah AIDS Foundation's food bank, served the homeless at Sunday morning breakfasts, donated dog food to a shelter, sent 20 bucks a month to the ASPCA and donated money to the family of a kid who's dying of leukemia.... And I've supported, y'know, giving sick people health care. Whatever it costs me.

Probably more than you've done. Maybe not. But whatever, I'm not going to make assumptions. Look where it got you.

Actually I don't need assumptions; the board conservatives just melted down over Obama declaring a national day of service.

So now might not be a good time to bring up how compassionate you all are compared to the ever so evil Democrats.