If were not gelling by january?

[portnoy1]

I'm not one of those knee-jerk fans that wants a trade immediately. We look good on Paper, but together we have problems on the defensive and on the offensive end. Some of the problems are due to new players, some however are not. If we aren't right by January here are some ideas that could be considered. Your opinions, tweaks are welcome (somewhat?:lol).
In my opinion the problems most caused will be between RJ/Parker. Duncan/Ginobili are pretty much here for good. RJ can get you some needed pieces for his $14million contract. Parker can do the same with his $12million contract.

Options

1 -RJ to Pacers in exchange for F-C Troy Murphy/F-G Dahntay Jones
2 -RJ to Bobcats in exchange for F-G SJAX/C- Diop
3 -RJ to Rockets in exchange for F - Scola/F-Battier
4 -TP to Raptors for G - Calderon/ F-C Bargnani

Pros +/- Cons

Option 1 Pros / Murphy will provide solid 3pt shooting and solid rebounding that Bonner doesnt provide. Dahntay Jones has been rather suprising on the offensive end and will provide the team a defensive specialist that has been lacking at the 2/3 positions. Option 1 Cons / Murphy is getting $11million for 2yrs. Is he worth it? Is RJ worth $14million for 2yrs? He is also somewhat injury prone. Dahntay Jones as much as he has improved offensively will not help as much as RJ or as a perimeter shooter to space the floor for TP.

Option 2 Pros / SJax will provide clutch shooting and length to defend against PF's that are agile if Pop keeps going small. Diop will provide size to defend against the Bigs that are in the west. He can also move his feet pretty well to protect the Paint. Option 2 Cons / SJax is a headcase and allready got kicked out of SA. Diop has a large contract and is a LIABILITY on offense.

Option 3 Pros / Scola provides A solid midrange jumper to give TP space to Penetrate and has a post game. And he can rebound very well. Battier provides a solid perimeter defender who doesnt need alot of help. He also provides A 3pt shot that also spaces the floor for TP. Option 3 Cons / Scola although a good rebounder is only 6-9 and will do good but will still have a little bit of trouble with the tall PF's in the west. Battier can shoot well and Defend, however as far as creating for others and being able to get to the paint/line he is not as good as RJ.

Option 4 Pros / Calderon is a solid PG, he can find people in their spots and doesnt take bad shots and doesnt turn the ball over. He lead the league in ast/turn ratio the last 2 seasons(that stat was for you mel_13:blah). Bargnani is a 7footer that can shoot/Post and put the ball on the floor. He is also a pretty decent shotblocker. Option 4 Cons / Calderon is a bad defender and cant break the defense down like Parker. He also makes $8million for 4yrs. Bargnani can do alot of things well offensively, but Defensively he is a bit lazy. For being 7feet tall he doesnt get enough rebounds. In both cases, their defense (or lack their of) may be a product of Jay Triano's coaching.

Their are other options out their, but i thought that these teams in particular would be good. The Bobcats/Pacers aren't going anywhere. The Rockets and Raptors may start well, however after a few games their true nature may come out and theyll be willing to deal. Tell me what you think, yes or no's. Tweaks, adjustments etc. Keep in mind this is only if things aint right by January/February, as in we are still hovering around or even below 500.

[Muser]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Why would the Raptors trade Calderon AND Bargnani for TP?

[spursfan1000]

I don't see any of the other teams wanting to do it...

[portnoy1]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Why would the Raptors trade Calderon AND Bargnani for TP?
Plus change. which could mean Mahinmi/Bonner. TP might help Bosh to stay. Bargnani and Calderon wont. Once again a possible if there start to suck really bad and Bosh starts mouthing off.

[mookie2001]

Paper!

[portnoy1]

I don't see any of the other teams wanting to do it...Why?

[portnoy1]

Paper!
Paper:(?

[Muser]

Bargnani isn't leaving Toronto...

[portnoy1]

I'd rather keep TP.Thats cool, I dont want TP or RJ gone if thats what you think. But I also can see us being the Blazers from 2000-2002. Lots of talent and no cohesion.

[cherylsteele]

I thought this was going to be about Dr. Scholl's insoles, not another trade idea due to someone panicking in November.

[portnoy1]

I thought this was going to be about Dr. Scholl's insoles, not another trade idea due to someone panicking in November.
I oughta try that next time, and see how many spurstalk members suffer from footpain like I do. Like I said in my intro, this is only if later on (JAN/FEB) were not right. I'm not freaking out now. I'm freaking out later:lol.

[Chomag]

The only trade I would inclued TP in at this point is for Dwill, but why would Utah do this? heh

[Muser]

Where do spur fans keep getting the idea that Jax was kicked out of SA because he's a headcase?

[portnoy1]

The only trade I would inclued TP in at this point is for Dwill, but why would Utah do this? hehDWILL success is partially because of Jerry Sloans magnificent system. However his court vision and ability to score at the same time outdoes TP. In answer Utah is kinda a contender. At least enough of one not to give up their floor general.

[portnoy1]

Where do spur fans keep getting the idea that Jax was kicked out of SA because he's a headcase?
Would you want him back here? I dont personally, but I could see that as a possible solution to alot of problems. Pop is not going to stop the small ball. The plus with SJAX is that he knows what its like to play small ball. He did it with Don Nelson and was successful.

[DPG21920]

Is Calderon better than Parker in your mind, port?

[Mel_13]

Ok, I'll bite.

Options 1, 3, and 4 are non-starters for the other team.

1. Indiana has Granger and Dunleavy. They're not trading a big to add another SF, especially one that makes 15M.

3. The Rockets have Ariza and Battier for less than what RJ makes. Why in the world would they give up Scola in order to upgrade from Battier to RJ? Makes no sense.

4. Similar reasoning for Toronto. The trade essentially comes down to them giving up Bargnani in order to upgrade from Calderon to Parker. I would think that you, more than just about anyone here, would judge that price much too high.

The only one that looks like any sort of possibility to even begin a conversation is the Bobcat option, just not with RJ as the bait. One could imagine a scenario where Manu never gets healthy and Jackson wears out his welcome with Larry Brown. In that case, a trade featuring Manu's expiring contract and Jackson as the main pieces becomes possible. If the deal is expanded to include an excess MLE center from Charlotte, I'd rather have Nazr for 2 years than Diop for 4 years.

[honestfool84]

The only trade I would inclued TP in at this point is for Dwill, but why would Utah do this? heh

DWilliams or CP3. parker, i think, is untouchable.

[portnoy1]

Is Calderon better than Parker in your mind, port?
Nope, But a combo deal i'd be willing to look into. Calderon comes up cause of his abilities and the team he's on. Like I said in my intro, There are other possibilities. However I thought those 4 teams would be suitable.

[DPG21920]

So you think that the gap in talent between Parker and Calderon is made equal by Bargnani?

[portnoy1]

Ok, I'll bite.

Options 1, 3, and 4 are non-starters for the other team.

1. Indiana has Granger and Dunleavy. They're not trading a big to add another SF, especially one that makes 15M.

3. The Rockets have Ariza and Battier for less than what RJ makes. Why in the world would they give up Scola in order to upgrade from Battier to RJ? Makes no sense.

4. Similar reasoning for Toronto. The trade essentially comes down to them giving up Bargnani in order to upgrade from Calderon to Parker. I would think that you, more than just about anyone here, would judge that price much too high.

The only one that looks like any sort of possibility to even begin a conversation is the Bobcat option, just not with RJ as the bait. One could imagine a scenario where Manu never gets healthy and Jackson wears out his welcome with Larry Brown. In that case, a trade featuring Manu's expiring contract and Jackson as the main pieces becomes possible. If the deal is expanded to include an excess MLE center from Charlotte, I'd rather have Nazr for 2 years than Diop for 4 years.
I would like that deal!!! Age with Nazr is what concerned me. Giving up Manu for SJAX i dont know? Like I said in another post, the more Manu gets injured the better it is for the spurs to keep him at a cheaper price, say the MLE.

[Muser]

Would you want him back here? I dont personally, but I could see that as a possible solution to alot of problems. Pop is not going to stop the small ball. The plus with SJAX is that he knows what its like to play small ball. He did it with Don Nelson and was successful.

If Manu becomes unable to play for the rest of the year somehow then I trade him to Charlotte for Jax.

[portnoy1]

So you think that the gap in talent between Parker and Calderon is made equal by Bargnani?
Looking at our needs if things dont get right yes!!

[portnoy1]

If Manu becomes unable to play for the rest of the year somehow then I trade him to Charlotte for Jax.
Then, I would bite immediately!!! As skip bayless once said. "no Manu, no win"

[DPG21920]

Looking at our needs if things dont get right yes!!

I am talking about Toronto's point of view. Is the upgrade they get from swapping out Calderon with Parker, worth Bargnani?

[portnoy1]

I am talking about Toronto's point of view. Is the upgrade they get from swapping out Calderon with Parker, worth Bargnani?
That all depends on the Bosh situation, Meaning that he wants the FO to show that their serious about making the team better. They did that with Turkoglu, Having a legit Big 3 including a do it all SF and an Allstar PG that gives you 20 sky high percentage pts a night might sway him to stick around. I'll run it by the guys at Raptors forum if you'd like?

[DPG21920]

Well you sure run it by us all the time and we care about as much as they would.

[Mel_13]

I am talking about Toronto's point of view. Is the upgrade they get from swapping out Calderon with Parker, worth Bargnani?


That all depends on the Bosh situation, Meaning that he wants the FO to show that their serious about making the team better. They did that with Turkoglu, Having a legit Big 3 including a do it all SF and an Allstar PG that gives you 20 sky high percentage pts a night might sway him to stick around. I'll run it by the guys at Raptors forum if you'd like?

Does Bryan Colangelo consult with Raptor fans on trades? This isn't the first time you've used the supposed interest of fans on a Raptor message board to support the legitimacy of a trade suggestion.

The answer to DPG's question is simple: NO.

Bargnani was the the number 1 pick in the 2006 draft pick. He was the first pick made by Colangelo in his role as Raptor's President and he has been signed to a 50M extension. Colangelo is not trading Bargnani to upgrade from Calderon to Parker. It's just silly.

[Spursfan092120]

Yes, because when you're not gelling, the first thing you want to do is bring in new players and start all over again.

[portnoy1]

Well you sure run it by us all the time and we care about as much as they would.I like what Calderon could bring, but not at the expense of an allstar PG, Throw in Bargnani and then you might have yourself a deal.

PG - Hill / Calderon or vice versa
SG - Bogans / Manu
SF - RJ / Mason or Finley (whoever is shooting better)
PF - Duncan / Blair
C - Bargnani / Mcdyess

Calderon wont go 1 on 5 cause frankly he cant. lol:lol However he keeps that ball moving, kinda like GHILL but a better shooter and a better decision maker. Bargnani with the right coaching can do some serious damage. He can play 3 different positions. He can Play C cause he is tall and can block shots but he can also play SF cause he can move his feet pretty well. Now when I say SF I'm talking about certain situations. I dont mean Melo/Pierce/Lebron.

This trade wasnt my only option, nor my first. Sure I like Calderon/Bargnani but the other trades i mentioned seem more likely since i dont think the spurs would part with TP. I believe they see him as the possible future along with GHILL.

[portnoy1]

Yes, because when you're not gelling, the first thing you want to do is bring in new players and start all over again.What do you do when your not gelling then?

[spursfan1000]

Why?

These are the reasons I don't think that the other teams would want to do it.

RJ for Murphy and Jones swap...Jones has been playing really good this year and they have no need to Jefferson since they have Granger and Dunleavy is going to return from injury.

RJ for S-Jax and Drop...Why would the Bobcats want to do this, they wouldent even have him for half a year/

RJ for Scola and Battier...They are losing 2 good defensive players for one non defensive player

TP for Calderon and Bargnani...Parker is already like 27 and calderon is 28, they both have around the equal talent, even though Parker is a better driver Calderon is better at passing and shooting the ball. Bargnani is very young and has a lot of potential and is really impressing alot of people this year.

[portnoy1]

Well you sure run it by us all the time and we care about as much as they would.Im also gonna possibly assume your being sarcastic??? Or are you???

[Muser]

Tony is good, but you're overrating what the Spurs could get if they were dumb enough to trade him.

[portnoy1]

Tony is good, but you're overrating what the Spurs could get if they were dumb enough to trade him.
I really dont wanna trade TP, but looking at TD's career I be willing to make some deals. What do you see as a possible trade for TP?

[Muser]

I don't see anyone as a trade for TP, after Duncan retires I see him being traded for cap space and picks to a contender.

[portnoy1]

I don't see anyone as a trade for TP, after Duncan retires I see him being traded for cap space and picks to a contender.
Duncan retiring:depressed:depressed:depressed a day none of us really want to think about. It was one thing when DROB retired, we knew the franchise could still be solid. Now who does the torch get passed to? This months phone bill is $30 less for me. At least that will help me get thru the day.

[Muser]

Nobody gets the torch, Parker is not a franchise player. Either we strike a big FA with the cap space or it's back to the balls.

[ffadicted]

The only one I'd consider is TP for Calderon and Bargnani, except for Bargnani's massively overpaid contract and the fact that the Raps would never do it

[HarlemHeat37]

That Parker trade would be bad for both teams..

I'm currently living in Toronto right now(Canada is the only non-New York place I've lived), so I've been watching Raps forever..while he's improved a lot and is clearly a good player, Bargnani doesn't address the needs for us..he would help us get better, but he doesn't fit the holes..he's a poor rebounder, and while he's an above average man defender, he doesn't solve defensive problems at all..I'm a fan of his, but not enough of a fan to trade Tony..

Calderon is an average player..he's a great shooter, but that's all he does well..his assists have always been heavily inflated compared to his actual ability..he rarely makes a difficult pass, he never takes risks, and he has very little penetrating ability..as bad as Parker is defensively, Calderon is twice as bad..

It's not a good trade for Toronto as well, as DPG and Mel pointed out..

Trading Jefferson isn't realistic, nobody wants his contract..

The only realistic trade off the top of my head would be Jax/Nazr for Manu/Mason or Finley..if Manu isn't healthy by the time Jax is allowed being moved(January, IIRC, unless I'm wrong), then I'd do it..

[Mel_13]

The only realistic trade off the top of my head would be Jax/Nazr for Manu/Mason or Finley..if Manu isn't healthy by the time Jax is allowed being moved(January, IIRC, unless I'm wrong), then I'd do it..

Jackson can be traded in combination with other players, which a Manu trade would require, any time after Jan 16th.

[draft87]

I'm not one of those knee-jerk fans that wants a trade immediately. We look good on Paper, but together we have problems on the defensive and on the offensive end. Some of the problems are due to new players, some however are not. If we aren't right by January here are some ideas that could be considered. Your opinions, tweaks are welcome (somewhat?:lol).
In my opinion the problems most caused will be between RJ/Parker. Duncan/Ginobili are pretty much here for good. RJ can get you some needed pieces for his $14million contract. Parker can do the same with his $12million contract.

Options

1 -RJ to Pacers in exchange for F-C Troy Murphy/F-G Dahntay Jones
2 -RJ to Bobcats in exchange for F-G SJAX/C- Diop
3 -RJ to Rockets in exchange for F - Scola/F-Battier
4 -TP to Raptors for G - Calderon/ F-C Bargnani

Pros +/- Cons

Option 1 Pros / Murphy will provide solid 3pt shooting and solid rebounding that Bonner doesnt provide. Dahntay Jones has been rather suprising on the offensive end and will provide the team a defensive specialist that has been lacking at the 2/3 positions. Option 1 Cons / Murphy is getting $11million for 2yrs. Is he worth it? Is RJ worth $14million for 2yrs? He is also somewhat injury prone. Dahntay Jones as much as he has improved offensively will not help as much as RJ or as a perimeter shooter to space the floor for TP.

Option 2 Pros / SJax will provide clutch shooting and length to defend against PF's that are agile if Pop keeps going small. Diop will provide size to defend against the Bigs that are in the west. He can also move his feet pretty well to protect the Paint. Option 2 Cons / SJax is a headcase and allready got kicked out of SA. Diop has a large contract and is a LIABILITY on offense.

Option 3 Pros / Scola provides A solid midrange jumper to give TP space to Penetrate and has a post game. And he can rebound very well. Battier provides a solid perimeter defender who doesnt need alot of help. He also provides A 3pt shot that also spaces the floor for TP. Option 3 Cons / Scola although a good rebounder is only 6-9 and will do good but will still have a little bit of trouble with the tall PF's in the west. Battier can shoot well and Defend, however as far as creating for others and being able to get to the paint/line he is not as good as RJ.

Option 4 Pros / Calderon is a solid PG, he can find people in their spots and doesnt take bad shots and doesnt turn the ball over. He lead the league in ast/turn ratio the last 2 seasons(that stat was for you mel_13:blah). Bargnani is a 7footer that can shoot/Post and put the ball on the floor. He is also a pretty decent shotblocker. Option 4 Cons / Calderon is a bad defender and cant break the defense down like Parker. He also makes $8million for 4yrs. Bargnani can do alot of things well offensively, but Defensively he is a bit lazy. For being 7feet tall he doesnt get enough rebounds. In both cases, their defense (or lack their of) may be a product of Jay Triano's coaching.

Their are other options out their, but i thought that these teams in particular would be good. The Bobcats/Pacers aren't going anywhere. The Rockets and Raptors may start well, however after a few games their true nature may come out and theyll be willing to deal. Tell me what you think, yes or no's. Tweaks, adjustments etc. Keep in mind this is only if things aint right by January/February, as in we are still hovering around or even below 500.


yeah let's wait till january. at that point any problems will have a clearer source. i know you say you're not "knee-jerk" but this is still too soon to waste time on transactions. as you can said, simply putting together talent that looks good on paper doesn't guarantee you a quick start to even a .500 record. what you're suggesting is that we consider more moves that look good on paper.

we'd all be better off watching all the games, even recording them to review. read good analyst's words, (not jamaal mashburn or mike tirico),
AND watch the REST of the league's games to see what we're up against. there's only so much you can do as a fan. it's SUPPORT YOUR TEAM. but we all like to get involved and be mentally prepared and that's a good thing. the best way to do that is to be patient(forget about all these transaction scenarios) and face reality(look at what we're working with, how we're improving, what our strengths and weaknesses are, and how they match up against the rest of the league)

[ElNono]

http://c0170361.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/833699_164297_6ac2ad3e4a_p.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

how about eddy curry? he has slimmed down his weight, does he look impressive in games or what?

eddy is on 10m this season + player option for the next at 11m

[HarlemHeat37]

Eddy Curry? serio?..

[Lars]

Yea Im pretty sure Morey is not going to hand over Battier and Scola for RJ. LOL

[mystargtr34]

Yea Im pretty sure Morey is not going to hand over Battier and Scola for RJ. LOL

You dont trade a future HoF guy like Scola for trash like RJ right?

[symple19]

buy some insoles

http://www.balloshoe.com/Gellin_insole.jpg

[symple19]

"I think I'll walk"

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