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spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 10:07 AM
A Defense Of Wall Street
John Tamny, 11.23.09, 12:00 AM ET
Every period of so-called economic excess invariably ends with the media and politicians discrediting the symbols of the alleged greed that characterized the era. Michael Milken and other innovative financiers from outside the clubby world of Wall Street were castrated at the end of the Reagan '80s. The late Ken Lay--of Enron fame--saw his reputation destroyed after the '90s Clinton boom, along with Tyco's Dennis Kozlowski and Worldcom's Bernie Ebbers.

This time around, after the relatively mild and certainly overrated "Bush Boom," Wall Street will likely take the lion's share of the blame for the uncertain economy. Popular history will say that Wall Street "overconsumed" when it came to risk and that the result was a near collapse of the world's financial system. Yet this was not the case.

Now, this is not an article exposing the various weak-dollar or universal-home-ownership policies emanating from Washington that helped push the financial system over the edge. That is an article for another time.

Nor is it a defense of TARP or the various bailouts of Wall Street firms that should have been allowed to fail. TARP was and is a massive economic setback. It has inhibited the healthy process in which poorly managed assets are freed up so that others can manage them more prudently.

Nor is this a defense of the financial institutions that paid back their TARP funds, such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley. Goldman and Morgan aren't deposit-taking institutions, so their transformation into "bank holding companies" is a black mark on both and indicates that they too were bailed out on the backs of unwitting taxpayers.

This is, instead, a defense of Wall Street itself. Thanks to bailouts that should never have occurred and looming bonus payouts for the banks that survived, Wall Street's reputation has taken a huge--and unfair--hit.

Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein's proclamation that his firm is doing "God's work" has attracted unending scorn, and New York Times columnist Joe Nocera recently trashed all of Wall Street, saying that "In no other segment do so many people get rich for doing so little for broader society." Wall Street is presently the demon, but the simple truth is that Blankfein is right.

Blankfein is correct about investment bankers doing "God's work." The simple truth is that life and economy-enhancing concepts such as Microsoft, FedEx and Amazon were once just that: concepts. Thanks to the genius of investment bankers seeking to find the best use for investor capital, those concepts became reality in ways that have enriched us all.

Investment banks help society by seeking the best commercial ideas and introducing opportunities for growth. When successful, these ideas elevate everyone's standard of living. Therefore, investment bankers who recognize value where others don't (Silicon Valley is littered with venture capital firms that turned down opportunities to finance Google) should get massive bonuses--it is the logical and happy result of visionary finance.

Nocera decries Wall Street pay because he believes investment bankers do so little for society, but in making this incendiary proclamation, he ignores why the pay is so impressive to begin with. Just as players in the NFL can make millions one season only to be released the next, Wall Street pay is high because it's so ephemeral.

Investment bankers sometimes get paid like NFL quarterbacks because just as Tom Brady is an injury or interception-filled season away from the waiver wire, investment bankers and traders are one bad deal or trade away from the unemployment line. In that sense, it can be assured that the bankers and traders who brought their firms to failure or the brink of failure are no longer in their employ.

Nocera asks "What in the world does a Citi trader do that makes him worth so much more than a General Motors executive?" The answer is pretty basic. Traders at Citi and elsewhere are "pricegivers"--in seeking trading profits, they are constantly moving capital to what the markets see as its highest use.

While trading profits surely offend some, these profits tell investors they should stop wasting limited funds on capital destroyers such as GM and redirect them toward more responsible managers. To suggest that traders don't do society a great service is to say that prices don't most efficiently organize any economy. Those who believe this should dust off their books about the old Soviet Union, where there were no prices and everyone went without.

Of course the natural response to the positive role of traders is that when they deemed Wall Street firms themselves unworthy of further investment, why didn't we let them fail? The response is the correct one, and the financial firms that couldn't attract private investment in 2008 should have been allowed to bankrupt. The bigger the failure, the bigger the opportunity for prudent financiers to expand their market share.

The lesson that Wall Street has gained from this latest crisis is that it should never again let its firms take government money. Never. Instead, investment banks should serve their shareholders and partners by maximizing profits and compensation while explicitly stating that no government aid will ever be taken should private investment dry up.

If so, Wall Street will be doing God's work in a way that will only offend the congenitally socialist in our midst. As for the rest of us, there's nothing wrong with gargantuan pay packages as long as the recipients don't ask for our help when there's no pay at all.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/22/wall-street-traders-gods-work-opinions-columnists-john-tamny.html

MannyIsGod
11-23-2009, 10:13 AM
Oh give me a fucking break. No one in their right mind one actually buy the bullshit in this argument, would they? Yes, investment in upcoming ideas is good. No, thats not what Wall Street was doing when they got us into this mess.

I'd love to see an article that defends their unregulated gambling errrr trading on complicated schemes they created themselves. Saying that Wall Street was just investing in ideas like Microsoft and did nothing underhanded is fucking laughable.

And if THATS not laughable the supposed pledge the author wants to never take any government money sure as hell is. How about a pledge never to lobby and work the government to your institutions advantage? Oh yes, the investment bank. Creating the MBS and doing away with regulation in the name of ideas.

Its like this guy forgot what happened when they let one of these investment banks fail. Anyone so connected with Wall Street should know better than to say "should have let us fail" as though after Lehman it was even an option.

boutons_deux
11-23-2009, 10:23 AM
Forbes and Malcolm Forbes are assholes.

There is no defense of Wall St.

"The lesson that Wall Street has gained from this latest crisis is that it should never again let its firms take government money"

OK, next time, WF, Citi, BoA, AIG, Goldman, etc all go bankrupt into liquidation.

MannyIsGod
11-23-2009, 10:26 AM
:lmao

That shit is so laughable. The biggest mistake here was taking that damn government money.

Winehole23
11-23-2009, 10:31 AM
The lesson that Wall Street has gained from this latest crisis is that it should never again let its firms take government money. Never. Instead, investment banks should serve their shareholders and partners by maximizing profits and compensation while explicitly stating that no government aid will ever be taken should private investment dry up.After Wall Street's *lost weekend*, the temperance trolls exhort a hungover financial sector to swear off the hard stuff for good.

Yeah, that'll work.

spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 11:49 AM
Oh give me a fucking break. No one in their right mind one actually buy the bullshit in this argument, would they? Yes, investment in upcoming ideas is good. No, thats not what Wall Street was doing when they got us into this mess.

I'd love to see an article that defends their unregulated gambling errrr trading on complicated schemes they created themselves. Saying that Wall Street was just investing in ideas like Microsoft and did nothing underhanded is fucking laughable.

And if THATS not laughable the supposed pledge the author wants to never take any government money sure as hell is. How about a pledge never to lobby and work the government to your institutions advantage? Oh yes, the investment bank. Creating the MBS and doing away with regulation in the name of ideas.

Its like this guy forgot what happened when they let one of these investment banks fail. Anyone so connected with Wall Street should know better than to say "should have let us fail" as though after Lehman it was even an option.
MBS's are private sector ran? :lol That's laughable. The gambling should have costed them. However they got bailed out and will probably do it again. There's nothing about that unregulated.
The authors pledge would probably get alot of investors. I don't think the directors will adhere to it though if they were being given a free ticket and a clean slate.

baseline bum
11-23-2009, 12:50 PM
Is this dumbfuck seriously trying to defend Ken Lay? The Ken Lay who robbed California blind in 2001 and stole money from every employee in the company who ever paid into his 401k? :pctoss

Is this article some kind of joke?

spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 12:52 PM
Is this dumbfuck seriously trying to defend Ken Lay? no and I don't know why you would call him a dumbfuck.

baseline bum
11-23-2009, 12:55 PM
no and I don't know why you would call him a dumbfuck.

Because he's whining about poor Ken Lay's reputation being ruined.

MannyIsGod
11-23-2009, 01:32 PM
MBS's are private sector ran? :lol That's laughable. The gambling should have costed them. However they got bailed out and will probably do it again. There's nothing about that unregulated.
The authors pledge would probably get alot of investors. I don't think the directors will adhere to it though if they were being given a free ticket and a clean slate.

Wait, who do you think created and ran MBSs and CDSs if not the private sector?

baseline bum
11-23-2009, 02:11 PM
Wait, who do you think created and ran MBSs and CDSs if not the private sector?

Obama, you dummy!

spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 02:20 PM
Wait, who do you think created and ran MBSs and CDSs if not the private sector? originated by FNMA

Issued by Ginnie Mae or Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac; pooled together by GSE's;


http://www.sec.gov/answers/mortgagesecurities.htm

rjv
11-23-2009, 02:28 PM
Is this dumbfuck seriously trying to defend Ken Lay?


he's a cheerleader for crooks.

spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 02:32 PM
he's a cheerleader for crooks.

He's a cheerleader for the Clintons, BHO, AG Holder, Harry Reid, Chuck Shumer, Chris Dodd, and Ted Kennedy?

MannyIsGod
11-23-2009, 02:34 PM
originated by FNMA

Issued by Ginnie Mae or Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac; pooled together by GSE's;


http://www.sec.gov/answers/mortgagesecurities.htm

You realize that government backed MSBs were not problems, right? When an MSB is backed by the government then you stand to lose nothing. So how then, did MSBs and the CDSs and CDOs put the economy in such peril?

rjv
11-23-2009, 02:52 PM
He's a cheerleader for the Clintons, BHO, AG Holder, Harry Reid, Chuck Shumer, Chris Dodd, and Ted Kennedy?


are you defending the above mentioned?

spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 06:59 PM
You realize that government backed MSBs were not problems, right? When an MSB is backed by the government then you stand to lose nothing. So how then, did MSBs and the CDSs and CDOs put the economy in such peril?

Don't move the goal post now.

Marcus Bryant
11-23-2009, 07:38 PM
When an MSB (sic) is backed by the government then you stand to lose nothing.

Answered before asked.

Marcus Bryant
11-23-2009, 07:43 PM
Freddie and Fannie were able to borrow at lower rates due to the implicit backing of the federal government. Both were significant contributors to the credit bubble. Not to mention the Fed itself which fueled the fire by keeping rates artificially low. Sure, Wall Street was not opposed to these policies and pyramided off of them, but to ignore the federal government's role in this latest bubble is naive and simple-minded.

If you want to attack the greedy capitalists of Wall Street or whatever to satisfy your partisan leanings, attack their exercise of influence within the government.

Marcus Bryant
11-23-2009, 07:46 PM
Of course, both major parties are basically owned by "Wall Street" anyways.

MannyIsGod
11-23-2009, 08:16 PM
Don't move the goal post now.

Fair enough, but the real problem weren't the MSB issued by the government but rather those issued by the private sector.

MannyIsGod
11-23-2009, 08:18 PM
Freddie and Fannie were able to borrow at lower rates due to the implicit backing of the federal government. Both were significant contributors to the credit bubble. Not to mention the Fed itself which fueled the fire by keeping rates artificially low. Sure, Wall Street was not opposed to these policies and pyramided off of them, but to ignore the federal government's role in this latest bubble is naive and simple-minded.

If you want to attack the greedy capitalists of Wall Street or whatever to satisfy your partisan leanings, attack their exercise of influence within the government.

I did attack that above. In any event, it has nothing to do with partisan politics as both parties were asleep at the wheel and helped fuel this thing. I just feel the premises presented in the article above are laughable at best.

Either Forbes knows he's lying which makes him writing this article pretty fucked up or he's actually buying his owning bullshit which makes him a complete moron.

spursncowboys
11-23-2009, 08:31 PM
I did attack that above. In any event, it has nothing to do with partisan politics as both parties were asleep at the wheel and helped fuel this thing. I just feel the premises presented in the article above are laughable at best.

Either Forbes knows he's lying which makes him writing this article pretty fucked up or he's actually buying his owning bullshit which makes him a complete moron.

For the record, it's not steve forbes who wrote it- that is just the magazine. I agree that it has nothing to do with partisan politics but groups are more responsible than others.
I think the problem was too many hands on the wheel.

CosmicCowboy
11-24-2009, 10:50 AM
Freddie and Fannie were able to borrow at lower rates due to the implicit backing of the federal government. Both were significant contributors to the credit bubble. Not to mention the Fed itself which fueled the fire by keeping rates artificially low. Sure, Wall Street was not opposed to these policies and pyramided off of them, but to ignore the federal government's role in this latest bubble is naive and simple-minded.

If you want to attack the greedy capitalists of Wall Street or whatever to satisfy your partisan leanings, attack their exercise of influence within the government.

Exactly. Goldman Sachs RUNS fed policy. The fall of Lehman Brothers that started this whole financial debacle was facilitated by the SEC totally ignoring it's ban on naked shorts. Goldman made a fortune on "killing" Lehman Brothers (it's biggest competitor) and then made damn sure the Feds didn't rescue them.

Nbadan
11-24-2009, 04:33 PM
Adding fuel to the fire...

Study: CEOs cashed in before Wall Street meltdown
By David Edwards and Daniel Tencer
Tuesday, November 24th, 2009 -- 10:20 am


The CEOs of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, the two investment banks that collapsed during last year's financial meltdown, walked away with hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation even as the company's shareholders lost everything, says a new report from Harvard Law School.


The top five executives at Bear Stearns made a total of $1.4 billion from bonuses and equity sales between 2000 and 2008, while the top five executives at Lehman Brothers made around $1 billion during that same period -- the period during which the companies ran up the bad investments that would see them collapse in 2008, according to "The Wages of Failure" http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/bebchuk/pdfs/BCS-Wag... (PDF), a report from Harvard Law School's Program on Corporate Governance.

"The people who invested in these companies should feel betrayed," Nell Minow, a compensation expert at the Corporate Library, told NBC's Lisa Myers. "The whole idea of capitalism is that the people provide the capital and the executives take care of it for us. In this case, the people provided the capital, and the executives took it."

Bear Stearns CEO James Cayne personally made $388 million in the eight-year period leading up to the bank's collapse, while Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld made $541 million. Boomberg news service notes that "shareholders who held their shares throughout the period analyzed in the report lost most of their initial investment."

Rawstory (http://rawstory.com/2009/11/nbc-ceos-cashed-in)

This isn't a calamity of liberalism or Conservatism, this is a calamity of capitalism...

Wild Cobra
11-24-2009, 04:47 PM
Oh give me a fucking break. No one in their right mind one actually buy the bullshit in this argument, would they? Yes, investment in upcoming ideas is good. No, thats not what Wall Street was doing when they got us into this mess.

What do you mean? Big corporations are a shared wealth of many stock holders who know any capitol they place in the corporation can be lost. Why do you agree with bailing out rich gamblers?


I'd love to see an article that defends their unregulated gambling errrr trading on complicated schemes they created themselves. Saying that Wall Street was just investing in ideas like Microsoft and did nothing underhanded is fucking laughable.

That's why they should have gone bankrupt.


Its like this guy forgot what happened when they let one of these investment banks fail. Anyone so connected with Wall Street should know better than to say "should have let us fail" as though after Lehman it was even an option.

They should know that they should not rely on the government. That's what liberal pussies do.


:lmao

That shit is so laughable. The biggest mistake here was taking that damn government money.
Absolutely. It is a bigger mistake to not let the original mistake take it's course. All that was done was reward failure. Now we can expect to see more bad corporate decisions.

Is this dumbfuck seriously trying to defend Ken Lay? The Ken Lay who robbed California blind in 2001 and stole money from every employee in the company who ever paid into his 401k? :pctoss

Is this article some kind of joke?
No, I don't see how.

Marcus Bryant
11-24-2009, 04:47 PM
Aided, abetted, and gift wrapped by the Fed and the GSEs.

spursncowboys
11-24-2009, 05:06 PM
Aided, abetted, and gift wrapped by the Fed and the GSEs.

GSE's ran by people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. I don't think either have had a real job let alone ran a successful company. I think this is less to do with capitalism and more to do with corporatism. Government intervention is the root of all of this-in the name of helping.