Scientists Reported to Be in Touch with Aliens

[ManuTP9]

Scientists from the Space Research Institute of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences (BAS) have been reported to be in touch with extraterrestrial beings.

The Bulgarian Novinar Daily has reported that the Bulgarian scientists are currently working on deciphering pictograms which are said to have come in the form of the so called “crop circles” with which the aliens answered 30 questions posed by the BAS researchers.

“They are currently all around us, and are watching us all the time. They are not hostile towards us; rather, they want to help us but we have not grown enough in order to establish direct contact with them. They are ready to help us but we don’t know what to request from them in case of contact,” said Lachezar Filipov, Deputy Director of the Space Research Institute of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, as quoted by the Novinar Daily.

Filipov has said that even the Vatican had agreed that aliens existed. In his words, the humans are not going to be able to establish contact with the extraterrestrials through radio waves but through the power of thought.

He has stated that the human race was certainly going to have direct contact with the aliens in the next 10-15 years.

The deputy head of the Bulgarian Space Research Institute has also told the Novinar Daily that the extraterrestrials were critical of the people’s amoral behavior referring to the humans' interference in nature’s processes.

Filipov’s team is reported to be analyzing the 150 new crop circles which appeared around the globe in the past year.

The publication of the Novinar Daily about the BAS researchers communicating with aliens comes in the midst of a controversy over the role, feasibility, and reform of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, which last week even led to the exchange of offensive remarks between Bulgaria's Finance Minister, Simeon Djankov, and President Georgi Parvanov.

[link to novinite.com]

[The Reckoning]

:rollin

bulgaria leads the way!

[Dr. Gonzo]

An alien served me menudo yesterday morning at the local taqueria.

[phyzik]

I guess we will know if this is true in the next 10 to 15 years....

[Bukefal]

:lol Bulgarians. Not to be taken serious. Especially these Balkan media.

[Summers]

:lol Bulgarians. Not to be taken serious. Especially these Balkan media.

Is lies?

[exstatic]

I guess we will know if this is true in the next 10 to 15 years....

Won't it have to be faster than that, like by December 2012?

[Borosai]

http://omploader.org/vMnVmbw

Oooohhh... can I play?

[phyzik]

Won't it have to be faster than that, like by December 2012?

Well, maybe not! I posted something a while back that they translated the date wrong on the Mayan Calendar. Maybe we will be saved! :lol

[EmptyMan]

Their message:

"Do not turn THC back on!"

[phyzik]

as much as I WANT to believe this, this shit is TOTALLY outrageous! :lol

We landed on the moon, for sure.... But I'd have to go the Mouse route and say there are no hidden alien bases. :lmao

Or would that be the opposite of Mouse? he's so deep into conspiracy theories its hard to tell these days.

If Im proven wrong, I'd weclome it. I WANT contact, weather it be good or bad. I wouldnt mind fucking some ET ass up and ganking their shit if they're hostle. :toast

[phyzik]

I SERIOUSLY doubt this shit is real.... but if..... IF.... it is, what will it do to religion?

Personally, I think religion will survive. As much as I bag on organized religion, it does keep people in line and thats a good thing.

I'm just curious to see what would happen. Would it be as earth shattering as when Galileo stated that the earth is not the center of the universe? Or that we revolve around the sun instead of it revolving around us? Or that the earth is a globe and not flat?

The discovery of other life would be exciting to me, but more exciting to me is going to be how the world reacts IF such a discovery is made.

Personally, I think it's bullshit at this point. I've been wrong before though.

[Buddy Holly]

We haven't grown enough to communicate with them but their means of communication is via crop circles.

lol. wtf ever.

[Nbadan]

I had a dream recently ...it was just like in Close Encounters, where the ship lands, people are scared and excited at the prospect of meeting alien beings.....the doors open slowly...everyone is boiling with anticipation.....the beings exit their vehicle and as they decend their ship we see not little green men like in the movies, nor reptilains like in conspiracy books, nor beings with big heads, thin bodies and big dark eyes like on TV....the beings are..................... human...

[TDMVPDPOY]

htf are we going to receive a connection or even know any bases when we still havnt explore the rest of our galaxy in the milky way etc....

[thispego]

alien disclosure, oh man that would bloat alot of chodes around here

[I. Hustle]

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/sarahpalincropcircle.jpg

What are they trying to say?

[Soul_Patch]

Yo Bulgarians, I'm really happy for you...and i'm gonna let you finish, but Jody Foster in Contact had the best Alien communications of all time.


seriously though, that was one of my favorite movies.

[EmptyMan]

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/sarahpalincropcircle.jpg

What are they trying to say?


Take me to your leader, skeeeet skeeeet

[BacktoBasics]

Any article referring to David Wilcock as a credible source is horseshit at best. This guy is a proven fraud. He's been behind this Obama disclosure push for the entire year. He's an attention seeker. Nothing more.

[Fabbs]

http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/cartoons/wallpapers/simpsons-kang-and-kodos.jpg

[Höfner]

Are their females hot?

[fraga]

I'm in contact with Aliens almost every other weekend...I says...oye...don't be cutting the grass so chort...nintiendes...wey...

[I. Hustle]

No nintendo

[I. Hustle]

http://www.trifepdgm.com/gfx/hotness/gifs/Alien124.gif

[xtremesteven33]

Theres so much secret knowledge that we dont know, this wouldnt suprise me one bit....

[sonic21]

So, these aliens have the technology for interstellar travel, but they choose to directly communicate with these Bulgarian scientists by trampling down wheat.

[Solid D]

Matt Bonner has been in contact with these aliens and they have found a way to help him.

[ManuTP9]

IF the aliens decide to reveal themselves, it would be one of the most historic event to ever happen.

[LOL]

President Obama may be planning to use his acceptance of the Nobel Peace Prize as the global forum from which he will announce the existence of Aliens/Extraterrestrials. Michael E. Salla, Ph.D-Honolulu Exopolitics Examiner, claims that an official announcement by the Obama administration disclosing the reality of extraterrestrial life is imminent.

According to him- 'Obama will travel to Oslo on December 10 to receive the Prize. His upcoming Oslo speech and enhanced international status give Obama the ideal opportunity to announce to the world the most ground breaking peace initiative of all time. The announcement of intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth and the need to enter into peaceful relations with them."

[DarkReign]

IF the aliens decide to reveal themselves, it would be one of the most historic event to ever happen.

Way to go out on a limb, there.

[z0sa]

It's highly improbable aliens exist in the galaxy, especially considering we're here which means there's less chance that another lifeform could have risen so close. and since you can't go faster than the speed of the light, you can't travel between galaxies.

Humanity will never find aliens, not intelligible ones, and they will never find us.

[phyzik]

It's highly improbable aliens exist in the galaxy, especially considering we're here which means there's less chance that another lifeform could have risen so close. and since you can't go faster than the speed of the light, you can't travel between galaxies.

Humanity will never find aliens, not intelligible ones, and they will never find us.

You dont have to go faster than light to travel to another galaxy.

Check the Folding Space theory.

Just because we cant do it, doesnt mean its impossible.

[BacktoBasics]

This Obama thing happened with Clinton and the first Bush and Reagan and especially Carter. Nothing new here. They're declassifying a lot of shit but don't expect an announcement. There is zero benefit to an announcement. Leak the info slowly and allow society to digest the reality of it all over a few decades.

[z0sa]

You dont have to go faster than light to travel to another galaxy.

Check the Folding Space theory.

Just because we cant do it, doesnt mean its impossible.

It's a proven fact of mathematics that you can't travel faster than light. It's impossible, period. At least in this universe.

Folding space to travel to another galaxy? Yeah, let me know when they have 1/10 of the technology required to legitimately pull it off with humans. It'll never happen.

And thanks for stating the obvious fact that you don't have to travel faster than light to go to another galaxy. Surviving long enough to reach the next galaxy must be of no consequence to you.

[BacktoBasics]

It's a proven fact of mathematics that you can't travel faster than light. It's impossible, period. At least in this universe.

Folding space to travel to another galaxy? Yeah, let me know when they have 1/10 of the technology required to legitimately pull it off with humans. It'll never happen.

And thanks for stating the obvious fact that you don't have to travel faster than light to go to another galaxy. Surviving long enough to reach the next galaxy must be of no consequence to you.It may be impossible for us to achieve this type of travel now but at one point it was "mathematically" impossible to go over 35 mph. You can't assume that other worlds are bound by the same laws of physics or lack of technology that we are.

[clambake]

zosa is afraid it would blow baby jesus out of the water.

[z0sa]

It may be impossible for us to achieve this type of travel now but at one point it was "mathematically" impossible to go over 35 mph. You can't assume that other worlds are bound by the same laws of physics or lack of technology that we are.



saying it was ever mathematically impossible to go over 35mph is one of the most stupid remarks I've ever heard.

[BacktoBasics]

saying it was ever mathematically impossible to go over 35mph is one of the most stupid remarks I've ever heard.
I was reaching for a bad analogy to display the very fucking idiocy of

"It's a proven fact of mathematics that you can't travel faster than light. It's impossible, period. At least in this universe."

You don't get sarcasm do you?

The point is that your statement makes no sense. Its arrogant, presumptuous and typical of the egotistical self centered way our race thinks.

[z0sa]

zosa is afraid it would blow baby jesus out of the water.

That's me, constantly professing Christianity and especially jesus at all hours. Donate to my church in fact. I'm the male version of angel luv i'm so outright jesus-lubbin.

[z0sa]

You don't get sarcasm do you?

Bullshit has been called.

[clambake]

That's me, constantly professing Christianity and especially jesus at all hours. Donate to my church in fact. I'm the male version of angel luv i'm so outright jesus-lubbin.

all of this is required to be "over the top", right?

[z0sa]

I was reaching for a bad analogy to display the very fucking idiocy of

"It's a proven fact of mathematics that you can't travel faster than light. It's impossible, period. At least in this universe."

It's not arrogant or presumptuous. Einstein provides, mathematically, a very basic and near 100% accepted theory that nothing can move faster than the speed of light.

[z0sa]

all of this is required to be "over the top", right?

Rephrase your question.

[z0sa]

It may be impossible for us to achieve this type of travel now but at one point it was "mathematically" impossible to go over 35 mph.

Has just gone into the signature. Good call on that one. I guess cheetahs don't run twice that fast all the time, huh?

[BacktoBasics]

Has just gone into the signature. Good call on that one. I guess cheetahs don't run twice that fast all the time, huh?You displayed your arrogance and ignorance by assuming that everything is bound by the same laws of physics and technology that we are.

There is nothing to "call" beyond that. You're simply assuming that since we can't do it no one can. It would be impossible for you to sufficiently back that up, math or no math you don't have the available scope and/or variables to do it.

I love how you go right to the insult over it. When I simply entered into the discussion fairly and without aggression. Defensive much?

[phyzik]

Has just gone into the signature. Good call on that one. I guess cheetahs don't run twice that fast all the time, huh?

The earth is Flat

No one will need more than 637 kb of memory for a personal computer. -Bill Gates

Transmission of documents via telephone wires is possible in principle, but the apparatus required is so expensive that it will never become a practical proposition. - Dennis Gabor, British physicist and author of Inventing the Future

There is practically no chance communications space satellites will be used to provide better telephone, telegraph, television, or radio service inside the United States. -T. Craven, FCC Commissioner

Space travel is bunk. -Sir Harold Spencer Jones, Astronomer Royal of the UK

To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth--all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances. - Lee deForest, American radio pioneer and inventor of the vacuum tube

Television won't last. It's a flash in the pan. -Mary Somerville, pioneer of radio educational broadcasts,

What can be more palpably absurd than the prospect held out of locomotives traveling twice as fast as stagecoaches? -The Quarterly Review, March edition, 1825

Rail travel at high speeds is not possible because passengers, unable to breathe, would die of asphyxia. -Dionysius Lardner, Professor of Natural Philosophy and Astronomy at University College, London, and author of The Steam Engine Explained and Illustrated

Dear Mr. President: The canal system of this country is being threatened by a new form of transportation known as 'railroads' ... As you may well know, Mr. President, 'railroad' carriages are pulled at the enormous speed of 15 miles per hour by 'engines' which, in addition to endangering life and limb of assengers, roar and snort their way through the countryside, setting fire to crops, scaring the livestock and frightening women and children. The Almighty certainly never intended that people should travel at such breakneck speed. -Martin Van Buren, Governor of New York

It's a great invention but who would want to use it anyway? -R-- utherford B. Hayes, U.S. President, after a demonstration of Alexander Bell's telephone

We are probably nearing the limit of all we can know about astronomy. -Simon Newcomb, Canadian-born American astronomer

The more important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered, and these are now so firmly established that the possibility of their ever being supplanted in consequence of new discoveries is exceedingly remote.... Our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals -Albert. A. Michelson, German-born American physicist, 1894

It is apparent to me that the possibilities of the aeroplane, which two or three years ago were thought to hold the solution to the [flying machine] problem, have been exhausted, and that we must turn elsewhere. -Thomas Edison, American inventor

Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible. -Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist, president of the British Royal Society, 1895

Man will not fly for 50 years. -Wilbur Wright, American aviation pioneer, to brother Orville, after a disappointing flying experiment, 1901
(their first successful flight was in 1903)

The horse is here to stay, the automobile is only a fad. -Advice of President of Michigan Savings Bank to Horace Rackham, lawyer for
Henry Ford, 1903
(Rackham ignored the advice and invested $5000 in Ford stock, selling it later
for $12.5 million)

Shall I continue? there are tons more where those came from.

[phyzik]

There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean the atom would have to be shattered at will - Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist, 1932

[Death In June]

It's a proven fact of mathematics that you can't travel faster than light. It's impossible, period. At least in this universe.

Folding space to travel to another galaxy? Yeah, let me know when they have 1/10 of the technology required to legitimately pull it off with humans. It'll never happen.

And thanks for stating the obvious fact that you don't have to travel faster than light to go to another galaxy. Surviving long enough to reach the next galaxy must be of no consequence to you.There's actually a band of solar systems in our general area that are the appropriate distance from the center of the galaxy where life could theoretically exist. They're still light years away, but the ideas behind folding space sound legit. Given how far technology has come the last 50 years, I wouldn't be surprised if we figured it out within the next century. I also don't buy the idea that the creation of life is a rare occurrence. All you need is water, a reducing atmosphere, thermal vents, and a meteorite.

[phyzik]

Just at the beginning of 2009

http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/090123-teleportation-atoms.html

Teleportation Milestone Achieved

Scientists have come a bit closer to achieving the "Star Trek" feat of teleportation. No one is galaxy-hopping, or even beaming people around, but for the first time, information has been teleported between two separate atoms across a distance of a meter — about a yard.

This is a significant milestone in a field known as quantum information processing, said Christopher Monroe of the Joint Quantum Institute at the University of Maryland, who led the effort.

Teleportation is one of nature's most mysterious forms of transport: Quantum information, such as the spin of a particle or the polarization of a photon, is transferred from one place to another, without traveling through any physical medium. It has previously been achieved between photons (a unit, or quantum, of electromagnetic radiation, such as light) over very large distances, between photons and ensembles of atoms, and between two nearby atoms through the intermediary action of a third.

None of those, however, provides a feasible means of holding and managing quantum information over long distances.

Now the JQI team, along with colleagues at the University of Michigan, has succeeded in teleporting a quantum state directly from one atom to another over a meter. That capability is necessary for workable quantum information systems because they will require memory storage at both the sending and receiving ends of the transmission.

In the Jan. 23 issue of the journal Science, the scientists report that, by using their protocol, atom-to-atom teleported information can be recovered with perfect accuracy about 90 percent of the time — and that figure can be improved.

"Our system has the potential to form the basis for a large-scale 'quantum repeater' that can network quantum memories over vast distances," Monroe said. "Moreover, our methods can be used in conjunction with quantum bit operations to create a key component needed for quantum computation."

A quantum computer could perform certain tasks, such as encryption-related calculations and searches of giant databases, considerably faster than conventional machines. The effort to devise a working model is a matter of intense interest worldwide.

Teleportation and entanglement

Physicist Richard Feynman is quoted as having said that "if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understands quantum mechanics." Or sometimes he is cited thusly: "I think I can safely say that nobody understand quantum mechanics."

Nonetheless, here is how the University of Maryland describes Monroe's work.

Teleportation works because of a remarkable quantum phenomenon called entanglement which only occurs on the atomic and subatomic scale. Once two objects are put in an entangled state, their properties are inextricably entwined. Although those properties are inherently unknowable until a measurement is made, measuring either one of the objects instantly determines the characteristics of the other, no matter how far apart they are.

The JQI team set out to entangle the quantum states of two individual ytterbium ions so that information embodied in the condition of one could be teleported to the other. Each ion was isolated in a separate high-vacuum trap, suspended in an invisible cage of electromagnetic fields and surrounded by metal electrodes.

The researchers identified two readily discernible ground (lowest energy) states of the ions that would serve as the alternative "bit" values of an atomic quantum bit, or qubit.

Conventional electronic bits (short for binary digits), such as those in a personal computer, are always in one of two states: off or on, 0 or 1, high or low voltage, etc. Quantum bits, however, can be in some combination, called a "superposition," of both states at the same time, like a coin that is simultaneously heads and tails — until a measurement is made. It is this phenomenon that gives quantum computation its extraordinary power.

Laser pulse initiates process

At the start of the experimental process, each ion (designated A and B) is initialized in a given ground state.

Then ion A is irradiated with a specially tailored microwave burst from one of its cage electrodes, placing the ion in some desired superposition of the two qubit states — in effect "writing" into "memory" the information to be teleported.

Immediately thereafter, both ions are excited by a picosecond (one trillionth of a second) laser pulse. The pulse duration is so short that each ion emits only a single photon as it sheds the energy gained by the laser and falls back to one or the other of the two qubit ground states.

Depending on which one it falls into, the ion emits one of two kinds of photons of slightly different wavelengths (designated red and blue) that correspond to the two atomic qubit states. It is the relationship between those photons that will eventually provide the telltale signal that entanglement has occurred.

Beamsplitter encounter

Each emitted photon is captured by a lens, routed to a separate strand of fiber-optic cable, and carried to a 50-50 beamsplitter where it is equally probable for the photon to pass straight through the splitter or to be reflected. On either side of the beamsplitter are detectors that can record the arrival of a single photon.

Before it reaches the beamsplitter, each photon is in an unknowable superposition of states. After encountering the beamsplitter, however, each takes on specific characteristics.

As a result, for each pair of photons, four color combinations are possible — blue-blue, red-red, blue-red and red-blue — as well as one of two polarizations: horizontal or vertical. In nearly all of those variations, the photons either cancel each other out or both end up in the same detector. But there is one — and only one — combination in which both detectors will record a photon at exactly the same time.

In that case, however, it is physically impossible to tell which ion produced which photon because it cannot be known whether the photon arriving at a detector passed through the beamsplitter or was reflected by it.

Thanks to the peculiar laws of quantum mechanics, that inherent uncertainty projects the ions into an entangled state. That is, each ion is in a superposition of the two possible qubit states. The simultaneous detection of photons at the detectors does not occur often, so the laser stimulus and photon emission process has to be repeated many thousands of times per second. But when a photon appears in each detector, it is an unambiguous signature of entanglement between the ions.

When an entangled condition is identified, the scientists immediately take a measurement of ion A. The act of measurement forces it out of superposition and into a definite condition: one of the two qubit states.

But because ion A's state is irreversibly tied to ion B's, the measurement also forces B into the complementary state. Depending on which state ion A is found in, the researchers now know precisely what kind of microwave pulse to apply to ion B in order to recover the exact information that had been written to ion A by the original microwave burst. Doing so results in the accurate teleportation of the information.

Teleportation vs. other communications

What distinguishes this outcome as teleportation, rather than any other form of communication, is that no information pertaining to the original memory actually passes between ion A and ion B. Instead, the information disappears when ion A is measured and reappears when the microwave pulse is applied to ion B.

"One particularly attractive aspect of our method is that it combines the unique advantages of both photons and atoms," says Monroe. "Photons are ideal for transferring information fast over long distances, whereas atoms offer a valuable medium for long-lived quantum memory ... Also, the teleportation of quantum information in this way could form the basis of a new type of quantum internet that could outperform any conventional type of classical network for certain tasks."

The work was supported by the Intelligence Advanced Research Project Activity program under U.S. Army Research Office contract, the National Science Foundation (NSF) Physics at the Information Frontier Program, and the NSF Physics Frontier Center at the Joint Quantum Institute.

[DarkReign]

It's a proven fact of mathematics that you can't travel faster than light. It's impossible, period. At least in this universe.

Folding space to travel to another galaxy? Yeah, let me know when they have 1/10 of the technology required to legitimately pull it off with humans. It'll never happen.

And thanks for stating the obvious fact that you don't have to travel faster than light to go to another galaxy. Surviving long enough to reach the next galaxy must be of no consequence to you.

I know youre used to arguing with the same people about the same stuff, but you are clearly letting your personal beliefs interfere with your logic and reason here.

Declarative statements about the capabilities and shortcomings of science have made men greater than you or I look a fool, try not to repeat their mistakes.

[BacktoBasics]

Excellent work gang.

[Alex Jones]

Theres so much secret knowledge that we dont know,

Like how to cure Cancer, and what it's like to really land on the Moon for starters...


this wouldnt suprise me one bit....

How about paying 25 cents instead of 8 dollars for each Tylenol capsule you take when your in the hospital? that would surprise the shit out of me, how about you?

[mouse]

When you start a hospital, you can go ahead and charge 25 cents a Tylenol.


Who do you think owns 90% of the hospitals? it's Joe the tax payer.

And besides why would you support 8 dollar Tylenol pills,you work in the medical field or health care industry?

[mouse]

I like how the uneducated Atheist of the Club are quick to make a topic every time Scientists find a new insect or has another bullshit theory about how life was formed, or how we can some day travel to Mars for bed and breakfast.

If your going to take the time to make another Science is da bomb topic make sure it's worth reading....like, "Scientist just found a cure for Alzheimer's disease"

But don't get me wrong I love Aliens and time travel, in fact I can't wait until we can finally one day travel back in time to when the economy was good and there was no war in Iraq, I am sure we can come up with a cool scientific gizmo to take us back to the Bill Clinton era or is that to far back to travel?

[z0sa]

I know youre used to arguing with the same people about the same stuff, but you are clearly letting your personal beliefs interfere with your logic and reason here.

What are my personal beliefs? Tell me, please. Otherwise, you've no leg to stand.

Everyone loves to pull this card, but yet no one knows my personal beliefs. They think because I may think the universe is young, or created, that somehow I couldn't beleive in aliens? Ignorant fools.

Fact: no one knows my personal beliefs, therefore, it is easily concluded by a small child no one has any ability to assert they are clouding my judgment except someone who has defininite, personal knowledge of said beliefs.

2nd, it's very clear, in black and white ink for all to see, that traveling faster than light is impossible. Not my beliefs.

3rd, addressing Phyzik's quotes - men are constantly wrong. However, nearly 100% of the scientific community (those who don't, believe the earth is flat because of a large conspiracy) agrees with my position as VERIFIABLE fact.


Declarative statements about the capabilities and shortcomings of science have made men greater than you or I look a fool, try not to repeat their mistakes.

Yet you actively assert assumptions about my beliefs, and how they have clouded my logic. Try not to repeat that mistake.

Even though you have just let your arrogance show, because I think you know me a bit better than these guys I supposedly debate about this stuff all the time (i rarely do, and have stated before that I don't think aliens of intelligible nature exist in the universe, at least, anywhere close to us), I assure you my beliefs about God have nothing to do with this argument - I'm arguing based purely on verifiable scientific speculation.

Finally, someone mentioned aliens living in the galaxy. Highly doubtful to the point of impossibility. According to widely accepted mainstream theories backed by notable evidence, the solar system, and earth existed much differently at its birth. In fact, if it did not, all ideas about abiogenesis as we know it are impossible. And obviously, one needs abiogenesis (using accepted theories and not my own beliefs here, throughout but I will keep repeating it since everyone wants to stupidly assume shit they have no clue about) to have life.

Life can't simply arise in our galaxy anymore, and if intelligent life was ever around our galaxy (little to no chance, IMO based on the facts and my analysis) the chances are proportionately even higher that it's been gone for a long, long time and buried by sands of time we'll never dig up.

[BacktoBasics]

What are my personal beliefs? Tell me, please. Otherwise, you've no leg to stand.

Everyone loves to pull this card, but yet no one knows my personal beliefs. They think because I may think the universe is young, or created, that somehow I couldn't beleive in aliens? Ignorant fools.

Fact: no one knows my personal beliefs, therefore, it is easily concluded by a small child no one has any ability to assert they are clouding my judgment except someone who has defininite, personal knowledge of said beliefs.

2nd, it's very clear, in black and white ink for all to see, that traveling faster than light is impossible. Not my beliefs.

3rd, addressing Phyzik's quotes - men are constantly wrong. However, nearly 100% of the scientific community (those who don't, believe the earth is flat because of a large conspiracy) agrees with my position as VERIFIABLE fact.



Yet you actively assert assumptions about my beliefs, and how they have clouded my logic. Try not to repeat that mistake.

Even though you have just let your arrogance show, because I think you know me a bit better than these guys I supposedly debate about this stuff all the time (i rarely do, and have stated before that I don't think aliens of intelligible nature exist in the universe, at least, anywhere close to us), I assure you my beliefs about God have nothing to do with this argument - I'm arguing based purely on verifiable scientific speculation.

Finally, someone mentioned aliens living in the galaxy. Highly doubtful to the point of impossibility. According to widely accepted mainstream theories backed by notable evidence, the solar system, and earth existed much differently at its birth. In fact, if it did not, all ideas about abiogenesis as we know it are impossible. And obviously, one needs abiogenesis (using accepted theories and not my own beliefs here, throughout but I will keep repeating it since everyone wants to stupidly assume shit they have no clue about) to have life.

Life can't simply arise in our galaxy anymore, and if intelligent life was ever around our galaxy (little to no chance, IMO based on the facts and my analysis) the chances are proportionately even higher that it's been gone for a long, long time and buried by sands of time we'll never dig up.

I think it was a fair assumption about your beliefs because a few of us, myself included, made statements that were immediately met with insults...typical thumper defense mechanism. You didn't even bother engaging the conversation with me. You went right to an insult. I wasn't the only one.

No one here came to battle. Seems like you were looking for a fight.

What are your beliefs? Can you share them with insulting anyone?

[mouse]

ZOsa rules of posting in the club....

If you talk bad about NASA your against science and exploration.

If you disagree with Darwin your a Bible thumping Angel_luver


If you post any question about 9/11 you wear a tin foil hat and you believe in Bigfoot.


If you post you don't think the earth is 4 billion years old your ignorant misguided Jesus freak.

And if you disagree with Pyhzik he will post in the topic he bought you a beer back in 2002 at ST gtg and you never paid him back.


just to name a few.......

[z0sa]

I think it was a fair assumption about your beliefs because a few of us, myself included, made statements that were immediately met with insults...typical thumper defense mechanism. You didn't even bother engaging the conversation with me. You went right to an insult. I wasn't the only one.

No one here came to battle. Seems like you were looking for a fight.

What are your beliefs? Can you share them with insulting anyone?

Who'd I insult, Mr. Deflection Because I Don't Have Any Answers?

Let me guess: you're butthurt because you made a ridiculously stupid comment, and I called it just that. To quote you exactly: Stop being such a pussy.

Besides you failing incredibly bad and me calling it out, what happened?

[z0sa]

ZOsa rules of posting in the club....

If you talk bad about NASA your against science and exploration.

If you disagree with Darwin your a Bible thumping Angel_luver


If you post any question about 9/11 you wear a tin foil hat and you believe in Bigfoot.


If you post you don't think the earth is 4 billion years old your ignorant misguided Jesus freak.

And if you disagree with Pyhzik he will post in the topic he bought you a beer back in 2002 at ST gtg and you never paid him back.


just to name a few.......


I honestly don't give a fuck about these types of debates, evolution/creationism aside ... if you want to believe that somewhere, across the universe, things start functioning fundamentally different than here in the Milky Way, go ahead. I'll stick to verifiable evidence so a real debate can occur. I mean, it's very clear my beliefs aren't clouding the picture if you look at the evidence. It's YOUR beliefs that are clouding the picture, your unfounded beliefs I might add.

Instead of getting all defensive (which is what everyone else did, not me) you should realize everything is speculation and anyone COULD be wrong, that's not the fun of it.

[DarkReign]

Wasnt attacking you. Sorry you took it that way.

You believe science will never be able to travel the stars, whatever the means of travel are (FTL, wormhole, space folding, etc). Astrophysicists the world over disagree vehemently. Take that for what you will.

[mouse]

I honestly don't give a fuck about these types of debates,

Sorry I figured your still in the topic you must have some interest in the matter.

[z0sa]

Wasnt attacking you. Sorry you took it that way.

I know it was not an attack. It's just everytime someone who knows my posting history can, they bring my beliefs into it - and no one knows any but the most general ideas concerning my personal beliefs.

Basically, I dislike being told "You are letting _____ get in the way," without the person actually having anything to put in the blank. I know you didn't mean any harm, actually had a strong take in terms of our total lack of knowledge outside the planet, but it is misplaced to state my judgment has been clouded.


You believe science will never be able to travel the stars, whatever the means of travel are (FTL, wormhole, space folding, etc). Astrophysicists the world over disagree vehemently. Take that for what you will.

It would be incredibly magnificent, could we pull it off. However, I also find that humans being so small and easily destroyed, it will be just as incredibly difficult an accomplishment. Especially when we're going so far away from observable experimentation, it's absurd. We don't know what's on the "other side" of a wormhole, if anything, though we can speculate through mathematical formulae. Actually crossing over the wormhole without being squashed into an atom sized nutrient by the sheer force would be great, but at this point, we don't have anything existing in the universe that could avert its affects. Or teleportation: being destroyed and put back together, atom for atom, may be possible with a powerful enough quatum computer, but first doesn't that scare anyone (don't you die during the event? I don't care about afterlives or anything right now in this debate, doesn't that just BOTHER you?) and second, perhaps most importantly, teleporting hundreds of light years away seems impossible IMO. How would we ever explore a whole galaxy without even knowing the locations of planets, stars, and more importantly smaller celestial objects that would jeopordize our people. This isn't event horizon. Technology can't avert the wall of Nature, a wall so tall that no technology can surpass it.

In conclusion, I will admit anything is possible within Nature - but I think traveling the stars is something nature may not permit, for a variety of reasons.

[The Reckoning]

Declarative statements about the capabilities and shortcomings of science have made men greater than you or I look a fool, try not to repeat their mistakes.




To attain a true idea of the nature and composition of this science [astronomy], it is indispensable...to mark the boundaries of the positive knowledge that we are able to gain of the stars....We can never by any means investigate their chemical composition.
- Auguste Comte, Cours de philosophie positive (1842)



73% hydrogen, 25% helium, 1.3 % C,N,O, 0.5% everything else


Comte's thinking was in terms of literally sampling the composition of stars in a laboratory setting, and he was correct in believing that we couldn't get close enough to stars in order to do so. However, he was at fault in that he didn't think outside the box, which is the foundation of human ingenuity.


Only a couple years after Comte died, scientists were able to piece together the composition of stars merely by observing the absortion lines in their spectrum.

Instead of physically sampling the stars' composition, all they had to do was analyze the light that stars emitted.


Comte was known as a genius in his day. In our day, we know him as a fool for this statement.

[DarkReign]

It's just everytime someone who knows my posting history can, they bring my beliefs into it - and no one knows any but the most general ideas concerning my personal beliefs.

Fair enough, guilty as charged.



Or teleportation: being destroyed and put back together, atom for atom, may be possible with a powerful enough quatum computer, but first doesn't that scare anyone (don't you die during the event? I don't care about afterlives or anything right now in this debate, doesn't that just BOTHER you?)

I was thinking about this after reading it and found your perspective on teleportation interesting. Because youre right....medically speaking, you are certainly dead while being transferred/teleported.

If anything, this should raise questions about the definition of life, if humans become capable of teleporting their physical person any sort of distance.

The philosophical implications are boundless if you really think about it. Interesting point you made.

[MiamiHeat]

oh man, z0sa

just shut the fuck up about the personal attack bullshit.. stop wasting people's time and stick to the subject.

[z0sa]

oh man, z0sa

just shut the fuck up about the personal attack bullshit.. stop wasting people's time and stick to the subject.

You do know your favorite team shows up next to each post, right?

[MiamiHeat]

Fair enough, guilty as charged.




I was thinking about this after reading it and found your perspective on teleportation interesting. Because youre right....medically speaking, you are certainly dead while being transferred/teleported.

If anything, this should raise questions about the definition of life, if humans become capable of teleporting their physical person any sort of distance.

The philosophical implications are boundless if you really think about it. Interesting point you made.

it's not possible. really, it's not.

I see 2 ways of achieving this teleportation

1) literally deconstructing the subject and MOVING all the material to another place, then reconstructing it. this is not even possible. if you change the composition and temperature of elements, they CHANGE. That eyeball you had, that was x% water, xyz, etc. ? Yeah, uh, sorry the xyz formed into something else, the xyz is gone, the elements were altered due to the exposure, temperature, whatever, and method........

so many problems with this.

even IF you somehow transported ALL of these materials and did not change their composition/harm them, how would you transport it wirelessly? the power required would overheat all of the material.....

it's not possible.

and then,

even IF you somehow reached your destination with the deconstructed 'parts'........ how would you put it back together without altering it? Overheating cells, hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, all of these things CHANGE when exposed to temperature changes and bond with other elements. How would you prevent these elements from unwanted bonds with each other during transport or reconstruction?

it's just not possible.


2) making a duplicate subject at the destination point.

in which case, you could either sacrifice the traveler at the departure point, sacrifice him in favor of gathering all the information you need to teleport him, OR you can leave the subject be, 'scan' him somehow and copy every single thing in his body, down to every cell and atom, and then construct a duplicate at the Destination point.

in which case, this isn't teleportation anymore, it's cloning. You'd now have 2 travelers.



and who's to say that memory can be copied? Would they even be the same person?

In both scenarios, the body your wife touched, the hand your wife and children held, is gone at the Destination point. Both travelers at the destination point are no longer the same organism, but an entirely new one.


sorry guys, I realize it's cool to say things like "There are no limits to science!!!!!!!!" to keep hope alive for ideas you like.... but teleportation isn't happening.


Worm hole type traveling, so you go from one place to another? maybe....but that's not teleporting, that's just traveling through space.

[Seth Brundle]

The key is understanding the flesh.........

[thispego]

it's not possible. really, it's not.

I see 2 ways of achieving this teleportation

1) literally deconstructing the subject and MOVING all the material to another place, then reconstructing it. this is not even possible. if you change the composition and temperature of elements, they CHANGE. That eyeball you had, that was x% water, xyz, etc. ? Yeah, uh, sorry the xyz formed into something else, the xyz is gone, the elements were altered due to the exposure, temperature, whatever, and method........

so many problems with this.

even IF you somehow transported ALL of these materials and did not change their composition/harm them, how would you transport it wirelessly? the power required would overheat all of the material.....

it's not possible.

and then,

even IF you somehow reached your destination with the deconstructed 'parts'........ how would you put it back together without altering it? Overheating cells, hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, all of these things CHANGE when exposed to temperature changes and bond with other elements. How would you prevent these elements from unwanted bonds with each other during transport or reconstruction?

it's just not possible.


2) making a duplicate subject at the destination point.

in which case, you could either sacrifice the traveler at the departure point, sacrifice him in favor of gathering all the information you need to teleport him, OR you can leave the subject be, 'scan' him somehow and copy every single thing in his body, down to every cell and atom, and then construct a duplicate at the Destination point.

in which case, this isn't teleportation anymore, it's cloning. You'd now have 2 travelers.



and who's to say that memory can be copied? Would they even be the same person?

In both scenarios, the body your wife touched, the hand your wife and children held, is gone at the Destination point. Both travelers at the destination point are no longer the same organism, but an entirely new one.


sorry guys, I realize it's cool to say things like "There are no limits to science!!!!!!!!" to keep hope alive for ideas you like.... but teleportation isn't happening.


Worm hole type traveling, so you go from one place to another? maybe....but that's not teleporting, that's just traveling through space.

ROFL. thanks for your thoughts, kid that doesn't know shit :rolleyes

[The Reckoning]

traveling faster than speed of light is possible.

the universe expanded by a factor of at least 10^26 and possibly 10^40 between 10^-36 and 10^-32 seconds during the big bang.

objects traveling within spacetime cannot travel faster than the speed of light, but spacetime itself is not limited to its own laws of physics.



that said, if they need a teleportation guinea pig, i'll sign up :tu

maybe i'll find an ancient civilization and enslave them by claiming im an omnipotent being by using my vastly superior technology.

[z0sa]

traveling faster than speed of light is possible.

the universe expanded by a factor of at least 10^26 and possibly 10^40 between 10^-36 and 10^-32 seconds during the big bang.

objects traveling within spacetime cannot travel faster than the speed of light, but spacetime itself is not limited to its own laws of physics.

Can humans exist outside of space-time?

[RedsLakers24]

Cocaine is a powerful drug

[The Reckoning]

Can humans exist outside of space-time?


i dont know. i said there is proof that spacetime itself is not limited to the speed of light - not that we'd have to travel outside of spacetime.

that's thinking too outside the box. ha.


its all about a frame of reference. you might be sitting still when observing yourself in reference to your chair, but when observing yourself in reference to the earth, you are traveling at over 50,000 mph.

some scientists theorize that spacetime can be warped to travel faster than the speed of light (since its not limited to the speed of light) while we wouldnt be traveling that fast in our own individual frame of reference.

[MiamiHeat]

traveling is not the same as teleportation, though

if you jump through space by going through a theoretical worm hole, that's travel, not teleportation.

same as going through time.......

which is also not possible because time is an invention of humanity. The rotation of the earth caused the Sun to rise and set every 'day', thus bringing a 'new day' on the morrow, and giving humanity a sense of time.... as if each 'day and night' was separate from the last. which caused us to think it actually exists.

it doesn't. the universe is only in the NOW.

[phyzik]

As far as my post about teleportation, its true it destroy's the origional matter and "replicates" it at another location....

Still, that is a feat in and of itself..... It's a breakthrough.... It wasnt too long ago that ANY type of teleportation was the stuff of Sci/Fi (see Star Trek). Now its a viable science.

thats my point. People said it was impossible.

the whole point of my post was not to argue weather aliens exists or weather we can all say "beam me up", but to argue that just because we dont know something *right now* doesnt mean its not possible in the future.

I still maintain, as well as with plenty of backup from head scientists, that folding space is a THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE means of travel across the cosmos, and to make it even better, it still fits within Einstiens theories.

Can we do it right now? no.

Should we stop trying? no.

the masses can believe what they want, it only takes 1 person to change our collective prospective. See einstein, Gallileo, Arostotle and Socrates for just a few examples.

[lil'mo]

traveling is not the same as teleportation, though

if you jump through space by going through a theoretical worm hole, that's travel, not teleportation.

same as going through time.......

which is also not possible because time is an invention of humanity. The rotation of the earth caused the Sun to rise and set every 'day', thus bringing a 'new day' on the morrow, and giving humanity a sense of time.... as if each 'day and night' was separate from the last. which caused us to think it actually exists.

it doesn't. the universe is only in the NOW.

:lmao Leave the intelligent conversation to the professionals, kid.

[MiamiHeat]

folding space to travel is not teleportation though.

[phyzik]

folding space to travel is not teleportation though.

True.

Folding space still requires matter to travel from one point to another. Teleportation doesnt require matter to travel.

big difference.

[z0sa]

i dont know. i said there is proof that spacetime itself is not limited to the speed of light - not that we'd have to travel outside of spacetime.

that's thinking too outside the box. ha.

yeah it was random. I was reading about black holes being twisting tears in spacetime and I wondered if we could somehow get through where we would end up. Nowhere? Somewhere else in the universe? A different universe?



some scientists theorize that spacetime can be warped to travel faster than the speed of light (since its not limited to the speed of light) while we wouldnt be traveling that fast in our own individual frame of reference.

Interesting concept, but how? That seems a daunting task, granting I'm no scientist, but I only read about huge objects bending spacetime at all..

[phyzik]

yeah it was random. I was reading about black holes being twisting tears in spacetime and I wondered if we could somehow get through where we would end up. Nowhere? Somewhere else in the universe? A different universe?




Interesting concept, but how? That seems a daunting task, granting I'm no scientist, but I only read about huge objects bending spacetime at all..

It's already been proven in our own space program.... It's hard to wrap your head around (including me) but it lends credence that its possible. It all fits within Einsteins theory of relativity as well. Its called time dilation. It's a fact based off of studies on the effects of Astronauts in space. If it can only be sped up significantly without negative effects, thats the only problem we face.

[z0sa]

True.

Folding space still requires matter to travel from one point to another. Teleportation doesnt require matter to travel.

big difference.

Yeah, I read Dune many years ago, and the whole folding space thing still doesn't seem viable to me. How much space would have to be folded to reach a destination?

[z0sa]

It's already been proven in our own space program.... It's hard to wrap your head around (including me) but it lends credence that its possible. It all fits within Einsteins theory of relativity as well. Its called time dilation. It's a fact based off of studies on the effects of Astronauts in space. If it can only be sped up significantly without negative effects, thats the only problem we face.

Link?

[phyzik]

Yeah, I read Dune many years ago, and the whole folding space thing still doesn't seem viable to me. How much space would have to be folded to reach a destination?

I admit I dont understand the inner workings of the theory. From my understanding though the ammount of space doesnt matter, except only in the effect of how much energy is required to fold space. It all comes down to energy from my understanding.

If you can generate enough energy to warp space, you can go anywhere. Of course we dont have anything NEARLY powerfull enough to create such a great ammount of gravity. I dont even think a black hole can reach the ammount of gravity required.

That doesnt mean its impossible.

[phyzik]

Link?

trying to find it, give me a few.

*edit*

Here is the firs thing that came up, but I swear I read a simpler version of it.

From what I can understand, its not about time, but acceleration. The closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time slows down for the individual thats traveling at said speed.

something like that.

I thought I read something that all astronaughts watches, despite being timed with the attomic clock, end up being something like 6 seconds ahead (or behind, cant remember) when they come back or something like that. Cant be sure though. Can anyone else confirm?

http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/relativity_worldbook.html

Of course, If your a follower of Mouse, NASA is out to decieve us, so take it for what you will.

[MiamiHeat]

The only thing keeping us from going faster than the speed of light is a power source...

the universe has no speed limit.

[z0sa]

On the other hand, what some physicists refer to as "apparent" or "effective" FTL[1][2][3][4] is the hypothesis that unusually distorted regions of spacetime might permit matter to reach distant locations faster than what it would take light in the "normal" route (though still moving subluminally through the distorted region).

Apparent FTL is not excluded by general relativity.

So if one could bend spacetime and travel through it, they could possibly travel faster than light. Without bending space, its impossible. Only mass and energy distort space.

Time for bed.

[z0sa]

The only thing keeping us from going faster than the speed of light is a power source...

the universe has no speed limit.


Despite the established conclusion that relativity precludes FTL travel, some have proposed ways to justify FTL behaviour...

pre⋅clude  /prɪˈklud/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pri-klood] Show IPA
Use precludes in a Sentence
See web results for precludes
See images of precludes
–verb (used with object), -clud⋅ed, -clud⋅ing.
1. to prevent the presence, existence, or occurrence of; make impossible: The insufficiency of the evidence precludes a conviction.
2. to exclude or debar from something: His physical disability precludes an athletic career for him



Wrong again Monkeyboy.

[phyzik]

So if one could bend spacetime and travel through it, they could possibly travel faster than light. Without bending space, its impossible. Only mass distorts space.

Time for bed.

Goodnight....

I like where this discussion is going, we averted a huge flame war! :lol

Hope to continue the discussion tomorrow.

Certainly I dont believe all of the theories, but some of the guys coming up with them are right up their with Einstien and alot of their theories at least fit within his Relativity theory.

[The Reckoning]

yeah it was random. I was reading about black holes being twisting tears in spacetime and I wondered if we could somehow get through where we would end up. Nowhere? Somewhere else in the universe? A different universe?

from what i understand, its infinite, but the universe could easily be round just as we believe its flat.

the universe could be round, but as it expands, it looks flatter and flatter like we perceive earth to be when we look toward the horizon.

a black hole could very well be a "hole to china," but that's merely speculation.



Interesting concept, but how? That seems a daunting task, granting I'm no scientist, but I only read about huge objects bending spacetime at all..


they're still trying to figure that out, and i don't know crap compared to all the physicists who postulate day in and out on how to make it work.

as scientists discover more and more about virtual particles and how quantum mechanics influence them, they also figure out ways to manipulate them within their relationship to spacetime.

for example, scientists have discovered that virtual particles spontaneously appear and disappear out of nothing.

perhaps spacetime could be warped by other means than throwing a chunk of matter in it but by manipulating the composition of it.

[phyzik]

Distortions in space-time

Einstein translated this principle into mathematical terms in his general theory of relativity. In this theory, matter and energy distort (change the shape of) space-time, and the distortion is experienced as gravity. A more common -- but less precise -- way of explaining the distortion is "Mass curves space."

Einstein suggested that astronomers could make certain observations to test the general theory of relativity. The most dramatic of these would be a bending of light rays by the sun's gravitation. In relativity, mass and energy are equivalent; and, because light carries energy, it also is affected by gravity. The light-bending effect is small, but Einstein calculated that it could be observed during a solar eclipse. In 1919, the British astronomer Arthur S. Eddington observed it, thereby making Einstein world-famous.

This is the part that Space folding focuses on.... If Light is the limit of speed in the universe, and it can bend, what else can be bent?

[phyzik]

Not to derail the thread, but has anyone heard of the Technological Singularity? And if so, what are your thoughts?

We are reaching a point of such accelleration of technological advances, its almost mind boggling. Think back just 15 years ago and where we where at with technology, then think back the last 100 years+ before that. We are advancing at such an accellerated rate, its pretty crazy and at the same time, exciting.

I know alot of people wouldnt want to live forever (they have their reasons) but it seems to me that it just might happen if technology continues to advance at the rate its currently going. Maybe even within the next 20 years.

[MiamiHeat]

Wrong again Monkeyboy.

You are such an asshole.

I am fully aware of Einstein's theories. I read most of his publications and speeches when I was a teenager.

Obviously, I believe Einstein is wrong. Faster than light travel is entirely possible, and in fact, the speed of light IS NOT constant.

For your info, some scientists a few years ago said they proved that the speed of light has been changing, that it is not a constant.

[MiamiHeat]

This is the part that Space folding focuses on.... If Light is the limit of speed in the universe, and it can bend, what else can be bent?

Light is not the speed limit.

If you and all my friends got together, and we all ran a race.

and someone came and saw us running. and noticed I am the fastest runner by a good margin.

He then declared that no man can ever run faster than me. I am the speed limit to human running.

Do you see where this is going? The universe has no speed limit because it is a VACUUM, light is only the fastest thing we have observed so far, but it does NOT mean "that's it, this is the fastest. no particle may go faster!"

The universe doesn't care about such ultimatums, strict rules confined by human brains.


Think about it

Does it make ANY sense to declare the speed of light as some sort of wall to speed in a vacuum?

[phyzik]

Light is not the speed limit.

If you and all my friends got together, and we all ran a race.

and someone came and saw us running. and noticed I am the fastest runner by a good margin.

He then declared that no man can ever run faster than me. I am the speed limit to human running.

Do you see where this is going?

I know what your getting at, thats why I used the subjective word of "IF".

I dont believe it is either.

[MiamiHeat]

Plus, einstein got several things wrong.

His greatest accomplishment was e=mc2, which by the way, he STOLE. he was NOT the first to discover it, he stole it from his idol, the man he looked up to..... but he sure did get all the credit.

so to act liek z0sa, and use his work as a Bible is wrong.

[phyzik]

Plus, einstein got several things wrong.

His greatest accomplishment was e=mc2, which by the way, he STOLE. he was NOT the first to discover it, he stole it from his idol, the man he looked up to..... but he sure did get all the credit.

Even if he stole it, it still doesnt diminsh the effect it has had on our understanding of how things work.

I May not agree with alot of things but E=mc2 is still the best we have, regardless of who came up with it.

[MiamiHeat]

Yeh, i'm just telling z0sa.

He used relativity theory as a Bible against what I said, which is ignorant.

[MiamiHeat]

by the way, I will say that I admired Einstein for standing up to the fraud who poisoned us with the Big Bang Theory.

A Priest who polluted science with a 'moment of creation', Einstein saw right through him.


which will tell you I also think the Big Bang is wrong.

[The Reckoning]

by the way, I will say that I admired Einstein for standing up to the fraud who poisoned us with the Big Bang Theory.

A Priest who polluted science with a 'moment of creation'


the theory of general relativity requires that the universe is expanding (V=HD).

whats the Cosmic Microwave Background?

where did the universal elements of hydrogen and helium come from? (fusion in stars creates the rest)

[MiamiHeat]

Why do you believe the Big Bang is the only way to explain expansion?

[The Reckoning]

Why do you believe the Big Bang is the only way to explain expansion?

mostly all of the Big Bang model predictions have been affirmed.

Hubble's Law shows that galaxies have been traveling apart for 13.6 billion years, and were concentrated at one point.

we see radiation left over from the explosion.

formation of hydrogen and helium had to begin somewhere, and Big Bang nucleosynthesis explains this as well as the present day density of luminous matter in the universe.

its a viable model, whether you believe so or not.

most astronomers and physicists agree with it. believers and non-believers alike.

[lil'mo]

This guy's good!

[MiamiHeat]

its a viable model, whether you believe so or not.

most astronomers and physicists agree with it. believers and non-believers alike.


Big Bang seems wrong, computers to blame
Monday, 24 July 2006

by Brad Hamilton
Cosmos Online
Big Bang seems wrong, computers to blame


SYDNEY, 24 July 2006 - If current computer simulations are anything to go by, the Big Bang is wrong, according to cosmologists. But the experts aren't throwing away the theory just yet, they're blaming the computers.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/436/big-bang-seems-wrong-computers-blame

[MiamiHeat]

Carl Sagan wrote :

"There is nevertheless a nagging suspicion among some astronomers, that all may not be right with the deduction, from the redshift of galaxies via the Doppler effect, that the universe is expanding. The astronomer Halton Arp has found enigmatic and disturbing cases where a galaxy and a quasar, or a pair of galaxies, that are in apparent physical association have very different redshifts...."

Sagan continues, "If Arp is right, the exotic mechanisms proposed to explain the energy source of distant quasars -- supernova chain reactions, supermassive black holes and the like -- would prove unnecessary. Quasars need not then be very distant. But some other exotic mechanism will be required to explain the redshift. In either case, something very strange is going on in the depths of space."

[MiamiHeat]

its a viable model, whether you believe so or not.

We all know how science works.

We see a hole in a water pipe, and we think of a way to patch it up.

We think up a good patch, one that we apply and test to see if it works. For now, the water is plugged up. The patch is working. Does it mean it's the correct patch to stop the leaking?

Anyway...

after some years, or a new discovery, a new observation, suddenly that patch that was working before, yeah, it has leaks now. Water is leaking from the pipe again, and we need to patch it once again.

Slap on another patch that works.

Just because it is a viable model does not mean anything.

Big Bang has a TON of problems.

What the Priest George Lemaitre did was poison science with a moment of creation.

[The Reckoning]

Big Bang seems wrong, computers to blame
Monday, 24 July 2006

by Brad Hamilton
Cosmos Online
Big Bang seems wrong, computers to blame


SYDNEY, 24 July 2006 - If current computer simulations are anything to go by, the Big Bang is wrong, according to cosmologists. But the experts aren't throwing away the theory just yet, they're blaming the computers.

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/436/big-bang-seems-wrong-computers-blame



read the rest of the article.


"Such discrepancies are likely due to the limits of modern computers, rather than any particular flaw in the predictions of Big Bang inflationary cosmology.
Gas dynamics that determine how matter settles into galaxies and collapses from there to form much denser stars; and how stellar winds and explosions stir up the remaining gas and control the rate at which new stars form are concepts that are far too complex for current programs, the authors said.
"The simulations invoke many parameters to describe the four per cent of the universe that is made up of baryonic matter [the particles that make up stars, people and so on]," But they said the simulations were not nearly as comprehensive for dark matter and dark energy, which make up the remaining 96 per cent of the universe.
So computer simulations are not about to revolutionise the way we think about the formation of galaxies. "I think we are a long way from achieving this," said Bland-Hawthorn. "There is so much more physics that needs to be included. It will be 10 to 20 years before we get this right."

[MiamiHeat]

Yeah, I read the rest of it. Why do you assume I didn't?

They basically blame the computers, they say it's likely that everything will be fine, etc.


Reality will hit continue them in the face though. Big Bang, she is wrong!

[The Reckoning]

sorry my connection died before i was able to elaborate on my response.


of course the Big Bang model isn't perfect, and neither has any model for the most part.

newton improved on kepler's laws, einstein improved on newton's laws, etc. to make more accurate measurements and predictions, but the laws weren't "proven wrong".

the Big Bang still needs some polishing, but it has stood the test of time, and i'd bet that there have been many astronomers who have attempted - and unsuccessfully - to debunk it.

in the instance of the computer models, they aren't perfect, but they do (as your article states)
include "galaxies which resemble neighbouring Andromeda and our own Milky Way, "adding to the evidence that our picture for the evolution of the universe is on the right track,"' so the simulations are fuzzy but not wrong.

how can a computer simulate the chaos of supernovas and other like phenomenon? of course its going to be a little off. also the article was in 2006. its now 2010, so computers could be far more advanced by now.

the Big Bang remains the strongest theory for now, and as far as i know, there's more polishing than debunking going on.

looks like it's here for a long while.

:wakeup

[BacktoBasics]

The fact that they've successfully recreated 99.9% of the big bang alone gives it credibility. They spent what? 8 billion creating the LHC to solve the remaining .01%. I think it has a reasonable leg to stand on. Even if they uncover a million more mysteries pertaining to the big bang there is still a ton of tangible evidence of value there.

[DarkReign]

which is also not possible because time is an invention of humanity.

Incorrect. Time is an absolute reality, albeit one that is subject to the same distortions that length, width and depth are up against.

[mouse]

Hate to be the one to bust up your big bang party you have going but....

It's a scientific fact that when something explodes all particles rotate in the same direction.

many planets in our solar system don't rotate in the same direction.


Most of the planets in our solar system do rotate counter clockwise - except for Venus (clockwise), Uranus (rotates on its side) and Pluto

"So much for your big bang" theory!

[mouse]

Hubble's Law shows that galaxies have been traveling apart for 13.6 billion years, and were concentrated at one point.
.


First off 13.6 Billion years is not accurate. Scientist "believe" "assume" and "guess" on the age of planets and solar systems. They end up quoting some other scientist. Most scientist today are still arguing over how old the grand canyon really is and you have the nerve to think these same fools know how old a galaxy is millions of miles from earth? :lmao


and were concentrated at one point.
.


I'm glad you bring this up. Scientist on one hand say the solar system is billions of years old and at the same time they try to calculate how much time it takes for the rings of Saturn to spread out or the distance the moon drifts apart from the earth.

Given the time they allow for the Saturn and the moon it doesn't match up to their own theories. For example it is a known fact the moon drifts from the earth at a rate of almost 2 inches a year. If the earth is 4 billion years old that would put the moon to close to the earth for the big bang theory to hold water.

It seems your so called big bang theory is really a big dud!

[MiamiHeat]

I can't believe it.

I agree with mouse for once. oh man

[Dr. Gonzo]

MiamiHeat's avatar freaks me out.

[MiamiHeat]

Incorrect. Time is an absolute reality, albeit one that is subject to the same distortions that length, width and depth are up against.

Incorrect. I can do that too, see?

Time is an illusion, a creation of mankind. The universe only exists in the present.

If you were in space, and just floated there in one spot staring at the sun, it would be a never ending moment of meditation. Everything just 'existing' in the present. There is no future or past.


The rotation of the earth created the illusion of time for mankind. You have no argument against this.

We made it up. We use this idea of time to measure distances, how 'long' it takes something to travel from point A to B, or how many rotation's of the earth from now will we go to the movies, or at what position of the Sun in the sky will we go to eat lunch? but it's all the present. We put a number to these things, to measure it, but it doesn't really exist.

[Ignignokt]

who is the dude in your avatar?

[mouse]

who is the dude in your avatar?


Its Andrew Dice Clay's brother.

[Ignignokt]

i was thinking it was a wrestler.

What's the guy's name?

[mouse]

i was thinking it was a wrestler.

What's the guy's name?

André René Roussimoff

[DarkReign]

Its Nicholas Cage with the freakiest Gene Simmons haircut ever. I constantly tell MH he has the spookiest avatar on ST. It be true.

[thispego]

Incorrect. I can do that too, see?

Time is an illusion, a creation of mankind. The universe only exists in the present.

If you were in space, and just floated there in one spot staring at the sun, it would be a never ending moment of meditation. Everything just 'existing' in the present. There is no future or past.


The rotation of the earth created the illusion of time for mankind. You have no argument against this.

We made it up. We use this idea of time to measure distances, how 'long' it takes something to travel from point A to B, or how many rotation's of the earth from now will we go to the movies, or at what position of the Sun in the sky will we go to eat lunch? but it's all the present. We put a number to these things, to measure it, but it doesn't really exist.

Incorrect. Time is still elapsing no matter where you are. It doesn't have to be within the confines of a 24-hour day. But every milisecond, things are getting older.

[z0sa]

Plus, einstein got several things wrong.

His greatest accomplishment was e=mc2, which by the way, he STOLE. he was NOT the first to discover it, he stole it from his idol, the man he looked up to..... but he sure did get all the credit.

Wrong. it WAS published before Einstein by some 18 months, but he actually redeveloped it extensively. The two ideas have been described as "dissimilar." Just check google and wikipedia for this shit you dumbass. It wasn't even his mentor at all, just some random Italian industrialist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olinto_De_Pretto), who did not even share many of his same conclusions with Einstein.


so to act liek z0sa, and use his work as a Bible is wrong.

Uh, no. Most of his work that is used today has be affirmed and reaffirmed countless times. You are in denial.


Yeh, i'm just telling z0sa.

He used relativity theory as a Bible against what I said, which is ignorant.

Deny deny deny.


by the way, I will say that I admired Einstein for standing up to the fraud who poisoned us with the Big Bang Theory.

Oh really?

"After the Belgian detailed his theory, Einstein stood up, applauded, and is supposed to have said, 'This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened.' " - Wikipedia

How badly you fail.



A Priest who polluted science with a 'moment of creation', Einstein saw right through him.

Right. See above. It's always about religion with you. It's poisoned your mind. Your thoughts and actions must always wonder to the furthest extreme. You simply can't agree with any ideas that might lend credence to a higher being or creation.



which will tell you I also think the Big Bang is wrong.

What's the Cosmic Microwave Background? Where did it come from?

If you actually knew anything at all, you'd know one of the biggest reasons the Big Bang theory was initially accepted was the theory predicted the existence of said invisible rays before they were even discovered.

What theory do you have that explains this field's existence across the universe?


Why do you believe the Big Bang is the only way to explain expansion?

We're waiting for your expert opinion.

Or do you not have one?

[The Reckoning]

Hate to be the one to bust up your big bang party you have going but....

It's a scientific fact that when something explodes all particles rotate in the same direction.

many planets in our solar system don't rotate in the same direction.



"So much for your big bang" theory!


the accretion disk that formed our solar system wasnt the result of the big bang but interstellar gas and dust collapsing on itself. your argument has nothing to do with the big bang.

rotation can also be reversed by collisons.

[thispego]

this guy is good!!!

[thispego]

smarter than that show-off 4cc!

[mouse]

the accretion disk that formed our solar system wasnt the result of the big bang but interstellar gas and dust collapsing on itself. your argument has nothing to do with the big bang.

rotation can also be reversed by collisons.

You have passion, that may help you in your belief's in life! :tu

unfortunately it may not be the case in this topic we will see...
good work..though.......... what planet exactly collided with Venus and changed it's rotation? just curious.