Which players are the biggest "if only" of all time?

[Blake]

http://www.mavswiki.com/images/thumb/6/65/Roy_tarpley.jpg/250px-Roy_tarpley.jpg

comes to mind

[Blake]

biggest of all time probably.

http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/5/53/Len_bias.jpg

probably

[lil_penny]

Drazen

[djohn2oo8]

Tracy, Yao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

biggest of all time probably.

http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/5/53/Len_bias.jpg


No question. Not only how good he supposedly was, but the impact that had over the NBA was crazy. What happens from 87-92 is up in the air if that doesn't happen.

[baseline bum]

http://www.eba-stats.com/images/players/Arvydas_Sabonis.jpg

[Culburn369]

biggest of all time probably.

http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/5/53/Len_bias.jpg

When all the laughter died in sorrow and the Leprechaun took it up the ass. They weren't so gd smug after that.

[JamStone]

Michael Ray Richardson, Jay Williams, Grant Hill, Dejan Bodiroga (what if he came to the NBA?)

[Chef Boyardee]

Basketball fans in this country missed out big time on not being able to see Sabonis in his prime. If he came here when he was originally drafted, he would now be mentioned among the best centers of all time. Would change the whole history of the Blazers too. Instead of being the bitter losers that they are, their fans would actually have some history of success to fall back on.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

biggest of all time probably.

http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/5/53/Len_bias.jpg

no doubt

[Darrin]

http://www.bballone.com/granth/magic/images/magic5_resize.jpg

[Darrin]

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=27871http://www.bballone.com/coreym/clippers/images/clippers30_resize.jpghttp://www.smackenergybar.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bbp-eltonbrand.jpghttp://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=21702http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/qrich3.jpg

[badfish22]

Grant Hill

[Donkeybong]

biggest of all time probably.

http://www.biocrawler.com/w/images/5/53/Len_bias.jpg

who is this guy? someone explain please.

[badfish22]

who is this guy? someone explain please.

len bias.
Died of cocaine overdose a night after bein drafted.

[Darrin]

who is this guy? someone explain please.

Len Bias--drafted second overall by the Defending-Champion Boston Celtics in 1986. He died 3 days after the draft from a cocaine overdose.

[duncan228]

who is this guy? someone explain please.

Nice read on Bias.

Still haunted by Len Bias
Bill Simmons

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1216291

[coyotes_geek]

It's Len Bias and it's not even close.

For those too young to remember or who don't understand the magnitude of what was about to happen, picture the Spurs winning the title in 2007 and then getting to draft Kevin Durant.

If Len Bias doesn't coke himself to death Larry Bird probably has more rings than Magic and we'd just consider Isiah Thomas to be a great player who never won a ring.

[ezau]

It's Len Bias and it's not even close.

For those too young to remember or who don't understand the magnitude of what was about to happen, picture the Spurs winning the title in 2007 and then getting to draft Kevin Durant.

If Len Bias doesn't coke himself to death Larry Bird probably has more rings than Magic and we'd just consider Isiah Thomas to be a great player who never won a ring.

Holy shit.

[TIMMYD!]

It's Len Bias and it's not even close.

For those too young to remember or who don't understand the magnitude of what was about to happen, picture the Spurs winning the title in 2007 and then getting to draft Kevin Durant.

If Len Bias doesn't coke himself to death Larry Bird probably has more rings than Magic and we'd just consider Isiah Thomas to be a great player who never won a ring.

Shit happens.

[baseline bum]

It's Len Bias and it's not even close.

For those too young to remember or who don't understand the magnitude of what was about to happen, picture the Spurs winning the title in 2007 and then getting to draft Kevin Durant.

If Len Bias doesn't coke himself to death Larry Bird probably has more rings than Magic and we'd just consider Isiah Thomas to be a great player who never won a ring.

I wouldn't say it's not even close. Arvydas Sabonis is one of the most complete players in the history of the game, who never got to show most of us his best due to politics. You want someone to score on the block? Sabonis was 7'3", had great post moves, and could elevate quickly. You want a bigman who creates shots for others? Sabonis is easily the best-passing bigman of all-time. Even in his Portland days when his knees were gone and his weight had ballooned, there was no one who could touch his passing in the post. You want versatility? Sabonis had three-point range and could get his shot off at will, since he was 7'3". He could literally score from anywhere, and he was a master using the glass. You want someone who can run the floor? Sabonis was outstanding on the break. You want a shotblocker and a rebounder? Sabonis' athleticism and size made him excellent at contesting and rejecting shots. Sabonis was almost like a hybrid of David Robinson, Bill Walton, and Sam Perkins. When you see this guy in his prime, it looks like there's nothing he cannot do on the floor. I think this guy could have won MVPs and titles in the NBA in his prime.

[Medvedenko]

Richard Dumas comes to mind....one of my fav players growing up.

[iggypop123]

sabonis. he wasnt allowed to come in his prime.

[baseline bum]

It's Len Bias and it's not even close.

For those too young to remember or who don't understand the magnitude of what was about to happen, picture the Spurs winning the title in 2007 and then getting to draft Kevin Durant.

If Len Bias doesn't coke himself to death Larry Bird probably has more rings than Magic and we'd just consider Isiah Thomas to be a great player who never won a ring.

I think you're selling Boston's situation in 1986 a bit short. It would be more like the Spurs winning the 2003 title with Duncan in his absolute prime and then drafting the Kevin Durant of today that summer; not the 19 year-old unpolished version who was too skinny and shot a low percentage that Seattle got in their last season, but the fully grown version that is lighting the league up now.

[lil_penny]

yea sabonis was the complete big man... even in his days as a crippled blazer he did some amazing things and was very clutch for the team. i wish we could of seen him in his prime. alot of blazer vets like porter and drexler have been quoted that they they would of won titles with him in the early 90s... and all homerism aside i cant disagree.. so "what if" he was on the team in 91 would we of beat the lakeshow? in 92 would we of beat the bulls? would we of 10 peated??? probably none of the above but who knows.. another great what if is what if jordan was in a blazers uniform lol..

[Culburn369]

I think you're selling Boston's situation in 1986 a bit short. It would be more like the Spurs winning the 2003 title with Duncan in his absolute prime and then drafting the Kevin Durant of today that summer; not the 19 year-old unpolished version who was too skinny and shot a low percentage that Seattle got in their last season, but the fully grown version that is lighting the league up now.

Then Lewis keeled over, dead as a door nail. Precursor for the Dick?

tee, hee.

[jdev82]

Grant hill/

[Technique]

http://www.eba-stats.com/images/players/Arvydas_Sabonis.jpg

Who's that Soviet guy?

[FkLA]

Sabonis is definitely the first name that came to my mind when I read this, he was still an effective player in his Portland days even as a shell of his old self. Always loved the way he played especially his passing. Its a shame we never got to see him in his prime. I wasnt around in 86' how good exactly was Bias? What had he done in college? Isaiah Rider was another guy that immediately came to mind.

[jacobdrj]

Sabonis
Petrovic
Grant Hill
Bias
Connie Hawkins
Bill Walton (immagine him NOT wasting his best years in college)

Even McGrady/Yao

Mashburn

[alamo50]

Ben Wilson #25

[Allanon]

Len Bias. I watched a documentary on him on ESPN, that dude played like an NBA veteran.

[mojorizen7]

"If only" Ced Ceballos hadn't gotten injured in the WCF against Seattle.........
we would've beat MJ's Bulls in the '93 Finals.
We coulda used his 13ppg/6rpg and garbage putbacks.

[Darrin]

You know who we have forgotten:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_drUMJ9HF-tQ/SmhjDCrkatI/AAAAAAAAIu8/BcoFu7kqPWw/s400/Reggie.jpg
Reggie Lewis. He dropped dead of a heart aritimia. He consulted something like 19 doctors and 18 told him never to play professional basketball again.

Career: 17.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, 1.3 spg for the 306-186 Boston Celtics. He supplanted Larry Bird as the leading scorer for the final 3 years of his career with the Celtics.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Reggie was a great player and an even better leader - he was the heart of those fading-dynasty Celtics teams.

Great thread, and I certainly agree with all the names mentioned, although Len Bias and Michael Ray Richardson were just before I started following the NBA. Grant Hill always struck me as a guy who was incredible before his 6-year hiatus. On pure skill potential never realised, how about:

Sheed
Derrick Coleman

and Penny Hardaway certainly had his career crueled by injury.

[coyotes_geek]

I wouldn't say it's not even close. Arvydas Sabonis is one of the most complete players in the history of the game, who never got to show most of us his best due to politics. You want someone to score on the block? Sabonis was 7'3", had great post moves, and could elevate quickly. You want a bigman who creates shots for others? Sabonis is easily the best-passing bigman of all-time. Even in his Portland days when his knees were gone and his weight had ballooned, there was no one who could touch his passing in the post. You want versatility? Sabonis had three-point range and could get his shot off at will, since he was 7'3". He could literally score from anywhere, and he was a master using the glass. You want someone who can run the floor? Sabonis was outstanding on the break. You want a shotblocker and a rebounder? Sabonis' athleticism and size made him excellent at contesting and rejecting shots. Sabonis was almost like a hybrid of David Robinson, Bill Walton, and Sam Perkins. When you see this guy in his prime, it looks like there's nothing he cannot do on the floor. I think this guy could have won MVPs and titles in the NBA in his prime.

Sabonis was a stud. You don't have to sell me on how good he was. It's an absolute shame that he couldn't make it over here until his knees were shot. Even with bad knees and no mobility whatsoever he was still one of the better centers in the league. But still, I can't put him near Bias because of the situation Bias was falling into. No doubt Sabonis would have been great, but he wasn't about to join the 86 celtics. Beyond just how good a player Bias would have been, it was the situation and the impact he could have had on it that gives him the big edge here. I'd put Sabonis as the easy #2 candidate on this list though. JMO.

[Mel_13]

Some really good stuff in this thread.

I'll add Bernard King to the list. IMO, the best player not yet in HOF. Without the ACL injury in his prime, he would be mentioned along with greatest players of the 80's. His 1984 playoff run was incredible, carrying a mediocre Knick team all the way to Game 7 in the ECSF against the Celtics. Even after missing 2 seasons, he adjusted his game and averaged over 28 ppg at age 34 in his last full season in the NBA.

[pauls931]

You know who we have forgotten:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_drUMJ9HF-tQ/SmhjDCrkatI/AAAAAAAAIu8/BcoFu7kqPWw/s400/Reggie.jpg
Reggie Lewis. He dropped dead of a heart aritimia. He consulted something like 19 doctors and 18 told him never to play professional basketball again.

Career: 17.6 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.6 apg, 1.3 spg for the 306-186 Boston Celtics. He supplanted Larry Bird as the leading scorer for the final 3 years of his career with the Celtics.

That hurt, Boston was setback many years. I was still following the Celts at that point and he was good!

[coyotes_geek]

Some really good stuff in this thread.

I'll add Bernard King to the list. IMO, the best player not yet in HOF. Without the ACL injury in his prime, he would be mentioned along with greatest players of the 80's. His 1984 playoff run was incredible, carrying a mediocre Knick team all the way to Game 7 in the ECSF against the Celtics. Even after missing 2 seasons, he adjusted his game and averaged over 28 ppg at age 34 in his last full season in the NBA.

Another good addition.

Bill Walton is another name I'd toss out there. His ankles certainly caused a lot of his potential to go unfulfilled.

[Darthkiller]

len bias. larry bird would have been considered the Goat if Bias had lived. celts would have won at least 3-4 more chips. Imagine 03 spurs team won the title, then draft lebron the following year. bias was considered better than Michael Jordan at the time he was drafted.

[ambchang]

Sabonis is definitely the first name that came to my mind when I read this, he was still an effective player in his Portland days even as a shell of his old self. Always loved the way he played especially his passing. Its a shame we never got to see him in his prime. I wasnt around in 86' how good exactly was Bias? What had he done in college? Isaiah Rider was another guy that immediately came to mind.

Bias was compared to Jordan during his college days, and sometimes favourably. He was extremely athletic, and can drive to the basket at will and finish over everyone else, pretty much a slightly bigger version of Jordan.

People were just shocked back then he didn't get drafted #1, and people were laughing at Cleveland for taking Brad Daughtery.

[whottt]

Here's Drob VS Len bias in an NCAA dunkfest:

MSLLpiWoiz4

[baseline bum]

Sabonis was a stud. You don't have to sell me on how good he was. It's an absolute shame that he couldn't make it over here until his knees were shot. Even with bad knees and no mobility whatsoever he was still one of the better centers in the league. But still, I can't put him near Bias because of the situation Bias was falling into. No doubt Sabonis would have been great, but he wasn't about to join the 86 celtics. Beyond just how good a player Bias would have been, it was the situation and the impact he could have had on it that gives him the big edge here. I'd put Sabonis as the easy #2 candidate on this list though. JMO.

Fair enough. That '86 Celtics team was easily a top 5 team all-time, and Bird was even better in '87, so I can definitely see where you're coming from there (too bad McHale's nagging injuries that year derailed their repeat bid). I still think Detroit gets at least one title even with Bias in the mix though.

[whottt]

favourably.


British much?




Sorry, spelling smack is weak but I couldn't resist that one.

[Culburn369]

Sometimes you eat the bear: Henderson for Bias.

&

Sometimes that bear just gets up all over ya: Bias face ass down in a pile of white powder.

F'k him. I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for those poor f'ks in Ft. Hood when President Hussein's buddy flew a plane into the base.

[baseline bum]

Sometimes you eat the bear: Henderson for Bias.

&

Sometimes that bear just gets up all over ya: Bias face ass down in a pile of white powder.

F'k him. I don't feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for those poor f'ks in Ft. Hood when President Hussein's buddy flew a plane into the base.

:lol

[gaKNOW!blee]

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/a/a4/Act_jay_williams.jpg

[The Gemini Method]

I would say Len Bias would be the first person I would consider the biggest "if only" of all-time. The guy was a beast and had the talent to take Boston into further ringdom. If anyone hasn't had the opportunity to watch the 30 for 30 episode on his life/death, I suggest they do so. It was one of the best episodes in that series along with the Jimmy the Greek one.

Second I'd have to say Hank Gathers...A more athletic version of say, Robert Horry who would've been someone's Scottie Pippen or even his own alpha dog. I was barely old enough to remember watching him play, but I did go with my pops to see him and Kimble run up and down the courts at Loyola Marymount Univ.

[endrity]

Sabonis, he would have been league MVP and championship winner if he came over in his prime.

He absolutely destroyed DRob in the 86 Olympics, in a way that only Hakeem did in 95. Bias might have been really good, but this is still a big man's league.

[eyeh8u]

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/hardaway-and-oneal.jpg

1. if he didnt get injured
2. if his grandmother didn't coddle him and turn him into a bitch
3. if shaq wasnt a punk ass bitch and left

the only team that ever beat a post 1990 Micheal Jordan equipped bulls team in the playoffs was the magic, yea i know it was the year jordan wore 45 but still.

[Culburn369]

http://alltalksports.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/hardaway-and-oneal.jpg

1. if he didnt get injured
2. if his grandmother didn't coddle him and turn him into a bitch
3. if shaq wasnt a punk ass bitch and left

the only team that ever beat a post 1990 Micheal Jordan equipped bulls team in the playoffs was the magic, yea i know it was the year jordan wore 45 but still.

Well, Jordan got what he deserved. You don't do training camp & the drudgery of the 82 game right of passage you ain't entitled to the ring. Favre is the next one to get his payback. The lazy, cheatin', fk.

[Indazone]

If Only Reggie Miller had played on a better team.

[JoeTait75]

It has to be Lenny Bias, right? I mean, Sabonis, Drazen Petrovic, Sugar Ray Richardson, Bill Walton, Reggie Lewis, Grant Hill... at least these guys had a chance to show what they could do in the league. Lenny Bias never played one second of NBA basketball, and the impact of his death was made even bigger by the team that drafted him. That's the what-if of what-ifs right there.

BTW, one name that hasn't come up yet is Clark Kellogg. Special K would have been a great player if not for the injuries. He still might be the best prep player to ever come out of NE Ohio, and that includes LeBron.

[ambchang]

Two older players, Maurice Stokes and Earl Manigault.

[Culburn369]

"the world", eh?

Cool beans.

[Blake]

Reggie was a great player and an even better leader - he was the heart of those fading-dynasty Celtics teams.

Great thread, and I certainly agree with all the names mentioned, although Len Bias and Michael Ray Richardson were just before I started following the NBA. Grant Hill always struck me as a guy who was incredible before his 6-year hiatus. On pure skill potential never realised, how about:

Sheed
Derrick Coleman

and Penny Hardaway certainly had his career crueled by injury.

Derrick Coleman for sure belongs on the list.

That dude was definitely different. He had crazy skills but it was like basketball just didn't "do it" for him.

[Blake]

Some really good stuff in this thread.

I'll add Bernard King to the list. IMO, the best player not yet in HOF. Without the ACL injury in his prime, he would be mentioned along with greatest players of the 80's. His 1984 playoff run was incredible, carrying a mediocre Knick team all the way to Game 7 in the ECSF against the Celtics. Even after missing 2 seasons, he adjusted his game and averaged over 28 ppg at age 34 in his last full season in the NBA.

yeah, King could light it up as well as Ice or Dominique could.

[Blake]

eh, just dawned on me...... a little closer to home would be Johnny Moore.

I remember when he got that disease [desert fever] I had never heard of before. Sad, sad day.

[coyotes_geek]

eh, just dawned on me...... a little closer to home would be Johnny Moore.

I remember when he got that disease [desert fever] I had never heard of before. Sad, sad day.

Ouch. You're right. That name should have come up a lot earlier in this thread.

[Rip-Hamilton32]

no Dice yet? guy was a 20/10 guy before his knees gave up

[Darrin]

If Only Reggie Miller had played on a better team.

http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/artest.jpg

He had a hellava team in 2005.

[Capt Bringdown]

Not deserving of the "all time" designation, but I do remember Toby Knight out of Notre Dame who played for 4 season as Knick, 77-81
Steady improvement from his rookie season onward, culminating with a 19 pt & 6 rebound average in '80 (shooting 52% FGA!).
Injured in '81, only played 40 games averaging 5pts, after that, out of the league.

He sticks in the memory because I remember seeing him play in one the first Spurs games I ever saw.

Travis Mays out of UT. Had a pretty good rookie season in '91 with the Kings @ 14 ppg. Injuries limited him to just 2 games the following year, 49 the next, and then gone.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Here is a link about the Len Bias documentary made - http://www.len-bias.com/about.html

As an Aussie who got into basketball in the early 90's, i remember a kid named Richard Dumas on the Suns. We only got the occasional NBA game on TV down here but i remember watching him play and he was pretty damn good in his first season with the Suns. But i heard he had drug problems that got the better of him.

[ynh]

If only Detroit passed on Darko.. Bosh, Wade, Melo.. hell I'd take Kaman.. We have to pick the one turd of the bunch. He wasn't dead like Bias but we still took a stiff with the number 2.

[ynh]

Far as "if only" players in my time.

Rider, Jay Williams, Grant Hill, Coleman

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Here is a link about the Len Bias documentary made - http://www.len-bias.com/about.html

As an Aussie who got into basketball in the early 90's, i remember a kid named Richard Dumas on the Suns. We only got the occasional NBA game on TV down here but i remember watching him play and he was pretty damn good in his first season with the Suns. But i heard he had drug problems that got the better of him.

I remember Dumas - pure scorer and athletic freak. Here's to you, Richard. :toast

http://www.nba.com/suns/gallery/dumas_93.html

[lebomb]

LEN BIAS

never had a chance to show how truly good he could have been.


I would say #2 goes to Bobby Hurley or Jay Williams...........they got injured before they could show what they could do as well. Everyone else, at least had a chance IMHO.