Chuck Norris couldnt have stopped the Red Rocket tonight....

[phyzik]

23 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists in 25 minutes. :hat

Excellent defense as well! :wow

[HarlemHeat37]

His defense definitely wasn't excellent, but he rebounded very well..

Bonner is one of the best bench players in the NBA, believe it..

[phyzik]

His defense definitely wasn't excellent, but he rebounded very well..

Bonner is one of the best bench players in the NBA, believe it..

His defense WAS excellent..... for Matt bonner, that is. :toast

I'll take that type of hussle from him EVERY night, thank you very much! :king

[TDMVPDPOY]

since his stock is up atm

trade his ass while we can get something out of it

[bdictjames]

His shooting was off the charts

[TIMMYD!]

A law should be passed that if someone says something like this:
I love Matt Bonner!!
they can't take it back for the rest of the season.

[Spurs Brazil]

Nice game for Bonner, he's much better of the bench

[ricketts]

ill second that. but, I love matt bonner. bought his jersey last season, before the band wagon!

[Dex]

Trade Tim Duncan! Trade Antonio McDyess!

[ElNono]

His defense definitely wasn't excellent, but he rebounded very well..

Bonner is one of the best bench players in the NBA, believe it..

This. He could barely miss tonight. I'll take it.

No slight on Matt, but I thought Bogans/Hill (and obviously TD) were the difference that won us the game tonight.

[DesignatedT]

his defense was absolutely terrible. he made up for that though. i just dont understand him playing when he is 0-3 from 3 pt land.... but if he shoots like this. then there is no choice but to play him.

[SamoanTD]

This. He could barely miss tonight. I'll take it.

No slight on Matt, but I thought Bogans/Hill (and obviously TD) were the difference that won us the game tonight.
hell yea the boogey man was on the prowl tonight no doubt

[vander]

23 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists in 25 minutes. :hat

Excellent defense as well! :wow

the ":wow" only displays basketball and Bonner related ignorance

:toast

[Phenomanul]

This. He could barely miss tonight. I'll take it.

No slight on Matt, but I thought Bogans/Hill (and obviously TD) were the difference that won us the game tonight.

Dude... Bonner just helped us take a "W" against a team that has our number... tonight is not the night to say... "aight"

Can his detractors not give the man his props on a night when he took what was given to him? I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner's "+/-" was the highest again tonight... I know for sure he wasn't in the game when the Spurs gave up the big lead at the end of the 2nd...

[phyzik]

Dude... Bonner just helped us take a "W" against a team that has our number... tonight is not the night to say... "aight"

Can his detractors not give the man his props on a night when he took what was given to him? I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner's "+/-" was the highest again tonight... I know for sure he wasn't in the game when the Spurs gave up the big lead at the end of the 2nd...

+1

Bonner will never be a defensive force but he played pretty damn good on the defensive end considering its Matt Bonner. He was active and aggressive. thats all you can really ask of him on Defense.

[superjames1992]

If only he hadn't blown that layup (I guess that shot was too easy, LOL!), he would have tied his career-high of 25 points. Oh well, still a great game! :)


Can his detractors not give the man his props on a night when he took what was given to him? I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner's "+/-" was the highest again tonight... I know for sure he wasn't in the game when the Spurs gave up the big lead at the end of the 2nd...
Bonner's +/- was a +26. Can't get much better than that. Bogans was second with +18.

[ElNono]

Dude... Bonner just helped us take a "W" against a team that has our number... tonight is not the night to say... "aight"

Can his detractors not give the man his props on a night when he took what was given to him? I wouldn't be surprised if Bonner's "+/-" was the highest again tonight... I know for sure he wasn't in the game when the Spurs gave up the big lead at the end of the 2nd...

What do you want me to say? His defense on Ilyasova was average at best. He more than made up for it by making shots on the other end. He's obviously playing better off the bench. Props to Matt for another productive night.

If he can shoot like that every night, then they can hand us the trophy now.

Did I miss anything?

[the crimson blur]

What do you want me to say? His defense on Ilyasova was average at best. He more than made up for it by making shots on the other end. He's obviously playing better off the bench. Props to Matt for another productive night.

If he can shoot like that every night, then they can hand us the trophy now.

Did I miss anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxra2Nn7K9Y
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI_foK7md1U)

[tmtcsc]

Nice job by the rocket tonight.

[ElNono]

Jeez, I'm sorry I'm not cockslobbering all over Matt Bonner...

[tmtcsc]

When Bonner is hitting like that, he warrants floor time. When he's not...well, he doesn't. I'm glad he was on.

[crc21209]

Matt Bonner off the bench = Money! :tu

[ElNono]

When Bonner is hitting like that, he warrants floor time. When he's not...well, he doesn't. I'm glad he was on.

Don't be hatin' on Matty tonight... :nope

[vander]

Jeez, I'm sorry I'm not cockslobbering all over Matt Bonner...

but if it was Bogans with 23 points and an on/offcourt of +26, you'd be raving uncontrollably like a teenager about twilight :lol

try, just try, a couple hours a week, to be objective. it can be freeing

[baseline bum]

Bonner seems to have really found his place in a reserve role. I hope he continues proving me wrong.

[the crimson blur]

Jeez, I'm sorry I'm not cockslobbering all over Matt Bonner...

...all we are saying is don't hate when there is nothing to hate. He had a great game. The fuck do you want from him.

[phyzik]

Jeez, I'm sorry I'm not cockslobbering all over Matt Bonner...

Your forgiven but Bonner has been one of the very few constants this season so far with just a very few blips of questionability. The hate for him is greatly unwaranted. I dont want him starting or getting a huge ammount of minutes but if you look at his play, he has been money.

[z0sa]

Haha, everyone hated the red rocket for no reason. Pop actually helped build his confidence to a high level and like I told everyone, he can go back to the bench and still produce now. His rebounding has improved. Idiots

[phyzik]

gay

your coming out? I applaud your courage. :wakeup

[coyotes_geek]

Say what you will about Bonner, but there is no denying that when he's knocking down shots offense just comes so much easier for the Spurs.

[ElNono]

but if it was Bogans with 23 points and an on/offcourt of +26, you'd be raving uncontrollably like a teenager about twilight :lol

try, just try, a couple hours a week, to be objective. it can be freeing

That you look at one side of the court only is your problem, not mine.

I'll take this production from Bonner every night. The problem is that I cannot realistically expect him to produce this much every night.
It's not a knock on Matt. This is a role that suits him well.

[ElNono]

...all we are saying is don't hate when there is nothing to hate. He had a great game. The fuck do you want from him.

I thought we all agreed he was great off the bench playing 15 minutes?
I don't have a problem with him playing more if he has the hot hand.
But you can't realistically tell me you expect him to hit those shots every game. I mean, if he does, then I'll take it. But when he gets in a slump, it's time to play somebody else.

That's not hating. That's having realistic expectations.

[vander]

That you look at one side of the court only is your problem, not mine.

I'll take this production from Bonner every night. The problem is that I cannot realistically expect him to produce this much every night.
It's not a knock on Matt. This is a role that suits him well.

the fact that he lead the spurs in +/- last year, and is again this year, has just as much to do with his defense as his offense. you just see a guy make a couple shots over Bonner and make up your mind, he sucks at D, and apparently no amount of reality, right there on the TV screen, will change it :rolleyes

[z0sa]

I thought we all agreed he was great off the bench playing 15 minutes?
I don't have a problem with him playing more if he has the hot hand.
But you can't realistically tell me you expect him to hit those shots every game. I mean, if he does, then I'll take it. But when he gets in a slump, it's time to play somebody else.

That's not hating. That's having realistic expectations.

Human is checked in the profile, but it just keeps repeating this same jargon like a bot. :huh

[easy7]

He needs to stick to 3 pointers and don't try easy layups...:hat

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

What's big, white, red on top, and has amazing range? It's actually my Maytag oven when the stove top is cranked all the way up, but hey, Matt Bonner had a great game.

[ElNono]

the fact that he lead the spurs in +/- last year, and is again this year, has just as much to do with his defense as his offense. you just see a guy make a couple shots over Bonner and make up your mind, he sucks at D, and apparently no amount of reality, right there on the TV screen, will change it :rolleyes

Plus-minus is not a defensive stat. Look at defensive stats, like rebounding, and you'll notice he's a career subpar rebounder. If you actually watch the games, you will know he can't handle big, long guys. And in some cases, his defense is ridiculous. Where were you when Okur was driving right around him and straight into the paint?. You're just mesmerized by his offense, and basically ignore everything else. You also have very short selective memory. Matt Bonner is what it is. When he's on offensively, he'll give you a boost and relieve pressure on scoring the ball. When he's not on, he needs to sit down ASAP.

[benefactor]

I great game against the bucks, only to suck for 71 games and then the playoffs.
It's a win...and it got us back to .500. At the end of the day that is all that matters. We have the depth to cover his shortcomings if/when he has bad games.

[ElNono]

Human is checked in the profile, but it just keeps repeating this same jargon like a bot. :huh

I don't know why I expected a well thought out response. Silly me. :rolleyes

[ElNono]

It's a win...and it got us back to .500. At the end of the day that is all that matters. We have the depth to cover his shortcomings if/when he has bad games.

Agreed. I would actually like to see some more Theo when Dice is sleepwalking out there, and specially against bigger guys.

[SpurNation]

Nice game by Bonner. Enjoy these moments. I am.

[TDMVPDPOY]

bonner = MIP AWARD?

[ElNono]

Nice game by Bonner. Enjoy these moments. I am.

Definitely enjoying!!! It was a good win at home!

[z0sa]

I don't know why I expected a well thought out response. Silly me. :rolleyes

Yep, silly you. Couldn't restrain yourself once you saw a positive Bonner thread for a change. Maybe it just pisses you off. Or you feel like an asshole or an idiot.

[duhoh]

lol

[Bender]

when I was reading his post game quotes, it seems he prefers coming off the bench...

[phyzik]

At least he knows his place on the squad, even though some idiots think he should start the all star game.

The All-Star game? No.

The 3-point challenge? Definately, without a fucking doubt.

He should have been there instead of Mason last year.

I'd bet money in a heart beat that he would at least dominate any other big man that was in that challenge.

[dastrey]

At least he knows his place on the squad, even though some idiots think he should start the all star game.

I believe most people on this forum hate him as a starter, but like him off the bench. You need to admit he is a good bench player.

[Chieflion]

David Stern could not stop Bonner tonight, he even helped Bonner get 3 free throws on a 3 point attempt.

[nbaman99]

i'm just wondering, where are all the dudes here that said tread Bonner now?

[DesignatedT]

he just cant play defense. thats all anyone has ever said. damn. we all know he can shoot the 3. he lead the team and was like top 3 in the league last year in 3 pt %... but FACT is when it comes down to lakers celtics cavs nuggets. physical playoff games... the dude is a straight up non factor and a HUGE liability on DEFENSE. and all 4 of our championships were with the attitude that DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS. of course the guy can shoot... hes still soft as toilet paper. but again... hes going to be apart of the rotation whether anyone likes it or not. so hopefully he keeps shooting like this... cuz those games he goes 0-3.. hes totally useless

[FkLA]

Bonner is not an atrocious defender at all. He doesnt provide a shot-blocking prescence or grab double digit boards, but his man to man defense and rotations are decent. Better than numerous players on the team. I dont understand why people get outraged when Bonner gets lits up by guys like Bosh, Dirk, or even Okur. Those guys are pretty good players in case yall havent noticed, they light up guys on a daily basis. Plus the red rocket gets no love from the refs, Ive seen tons of plays already where he puts his hands straight up on defense and he gets a foul called on him.

[Cherry]

i'm just wondering, where are all the dudes here that said tread Bonner now?

:toast

[TJastal]

Haha, everyone hated the red rocket for no reason. Pop actually helped build his confidence to a high level and like I told everyone, he can go back to the bench and still produce now. His rebounding has improved. Idiots

So your saying Pop sacrificed the pre-season and the first 10 games of the year getting off to a shit start, throwing team chemistry into the dumpster when everybody including Manu Ginobili was saying how important it was to start off good because the schedule is easy now

.. in order for Matt Bonner to feel a little more confident out there in his reserve role? Ha.. that's funny.


:lol

[coyotes_geek]

i'm just wondering, where are all the dudes here that said tread Bonner now?

Don't worry. They'll be back the next time Bonner shoots 1-4 and the Spurs lose.

[ElNono]

Yep, silly you. Couldn't restrain yourself once you saw a positive Bonner thread for a change. Maybe it just pisses you off. Or you feel like an asshole or an idiot.

I don't know why do you think I have an axe to grind with Matt. You keep on attacking me, but you do absolutely nothing to counter my point. Is Bonner a great defender? No, and he never will be. Is that hate? Not at all, just reality.
Can you prove otherwise? So far you haven't.

[z0sa]

I don't know why do you think I have an axe to grind with Matt. You keep on attacking me, but you do absolutely nothing to counter my point. Is Bonner a great defender? No, and he never will be. Is that hate? Not at all, just reality.
Can you prove otherwise? So far you haven't.

Well, if you're gonna deny you have an axe to grind with Bonner, then maybe it is best I stay quiet.

[ElNono]

Well, if you're gonna deny you have an axe to grind with Bonner, then maybe it is best I stay quiet.

I do not have an axe to grind with Bonner. And I'm still waiting for your counter argument explaining how Matt is a great defender...

[z0sa]

I do not have an axe to grind with Bonner. And I'm still waiting for your counter argument explaining how Matt is a great defender...

I never said he was a great defender. Just denied he's a "liability."

[ElNono]

I never said he was a great defender. Just denied he's a "liability."

See, that's where we differ. I do think he's a liability on defense. It's a matter of opinion, not hate.

[z0sa]

See, that's where we differ. I do think he's a liability on defense. It's a matter of opinion, not hate.

Yeah, but that's not my point.

We've heard you say it plenty of times before. You don't have to repeat it in every Bonner thread ... it can be perceived as "hating" or having "an axe to grind"

[Mel_13]

See, that's where we differ. I do think he's a liability on defense. It's a matter of opinion, not hate.

You've come a long way.

Now for the real question. Do his offensive advantages outweigh his defensive disadvantages? To this point you have clearly been among those who believe the answer to that question is no. Yet there is statistical data that indicates the answer is yes and I have yet to see anyone here provide any objective evidence to the contrary.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You've come a long way.

Now for the real question. Do his offensive advantages outweigh his defensive disadvantages? To this point you have clearly been among those who believe the answer to that question is no. Yet there is statistical data that indicates the answer is yes and I have yet to see anyone here provide any objective evidence to the contrary.

True, stats also indicate he's not a bad rebounder as well, but it's not like facts will change biased opinions.

[ElNono]

You've come a long way.

Now for the real question. Do his offensive advantages outweigh his defensive disadvantages? To this point you have clearly been among those who believe the answer to that question is no. Yet there is statistical data that indicates the answer is yes and I have yet to see anyone here provide any objective evidence to the contrary.

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2009/seriesWest3/

My opinion is that he works for certain matchups. For others, he's really not useful. Some people think that it's "hate" to say that. It's not. If he had to guard Bogut last night, maybe we would have been looking at something else. And for all his great shooting, his defensive assignment scored 20 points.

[ElNono]

Yeah, but that's not my point.

We've heard you say it plenty of times before. You don't have to repeat it in every Bonner thread ... it can be perceived as "hating" or having "an axe to grind"

If you don't want to read it, just put me on ignore.

[TJastal]

You've come a long way.

Now for the real question. Do his offensive advantages outweigh his defensive disadvantages? To this point you have clearly been among those who believe the answer to that question is no. Yet there is statistical data that indicates the answer is yes and I have yet to see anyone here provide any objective evidence to the contrary.

Bonner is a decent reserve in this league when he's hitting 50% of his 3's and not missing bunny shots and blowing people's assists (like last night Dejuan Blair). :p:

As a starter however, he is physically overmatched by most other starting center's out there. Popovich finally figured this out 10 games into the season, have you finally figured it out, Mel?

[z0sa]

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2009/seriesWest3/

In case you didn't notice, Bonner had 11pts/7reb(4off)/1blk and 3/4 3FG in our only win.

[ElNono]

In case you didn't notice, Bonner had 11pts/7reb(4off)/1blk and 3/4 3FG in our only win.

Did you watch that game? Do you remember when Bonner started to hit shots in that game?

I mean, if you're bringing up 1 out of 5 games he played well, who's being a homer?

Selective memory is neat and all. It's just not objective.

[z0sa]

If you don't want to read it, just put me on ignore.

Why do you hate Bonner?

[ElNono]

Why do you hate Bonner?

I don't.

[z0sa]

I don't.

:lol

[ElNono]

:lol

:rolleyes

[z0sa]

Did you watch that game? Do you remember when Bonner started to hit shots in that game?

I mean, if you're bringing up 1 out of 5 games he played well, who's being a homer?

Selective memory is neat and all. It's just not objective.

Selective memory? Tim even had a horribly shitty game in that series. We were outmatched and unhealthy. Bonner is just a roleplayer.

Why do you hate Bonner?

[ElNono]

I have another question for the Bonner lovers like z0sa in this thread... Are you comfortable with the prospect of Bonner being the difference between winning and losing games? Be honest now...

[Mel_13]

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2009/seriesWest3/

My opinion is that he works for certain matchups. For others, he's really not useful. Some people think that it's "hate" to say that. It's not. If he had to guard Bogut last night, maybe we would have been looking at something else.
And for all his great shooting, his defensive assignment scored 20 points.

The Dallas series was a team failure. Bonner came up very small in that series, as did many others.

Role players, by the limited nature of their games, are going to be more useful against some teams than others. Bonner's numbers indicate that he is useful more often than he's not. Relegating him to the end of the bench, as you have often suggested, would not appear to be the most productive use of available talent.

Btw, Ilyasova only scored 8 of his 20 points when Bonner was in the game.

[ElNono]

Selective memory? Tim even had a horribly shitty game in that series. We were outmatched and unhealthy.

Tim was injured.


Bonner is just a roleplayer.

He was a starter and commanded the most minutes at his position in those series. You keep going with that selective memory.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I have another question for the Bonner lovers like z0sa in this thread... Are you comfortable with the prospect of Bonner being the difference between winning and losing games? Be honest now...

If Bonner, or any other role player for that matter, is the difference between winning and losing, then the said role player should be the last of your worries as a Spurs fan.

Bonner is an average to above average role player who fits specific needs. Every team needs these and we're a better team with him than without him ( or with almost whomever a possible trade might bring ).

[Mel_13]

I have another question for the Bonner lovers like z0sa in this thread... Are you comfortable with the prospect of Bonner being the difference between winning and losing games? Be honest now...

You reject being labeled a Bonner hater, saying you are just expressing your opinion on the player's pros and cons. Why then do label those who disagree with your opinion as Bonner lovers?

[ElNono]

The Dallas series was a team failure. Bonner came up very small in that series, as did many others.

Role players, by the limited nature of their games, are going to be more useful against some teams than others. Bonner's numbers indicate that he is useful more often than he's not. Relegating him to the end of the bench, as you have often suggested, would not appear to be the most productive use of available talent.

What numbers? Plus minus?
The Dallas series simply displayed that every other relatively good team will exploit Bonner as a mismatch at every opportunity they get. I thought it was pretty clear in the last game against Dallas too.


Btw, Ilyasova only scored 8 of his 20 points when Bonner was in the game.

And he did so by going straight to Matt and to the paint. It was too easy. Before that he mostly took outside shots.

[coyotes_geek]

I have another question for the Bonner lovers like z0sa in this thread... Are you comfortable with the prospect of Bonner being the difference between winning and losing games? Be honest now...

That's quite an overstatement as to the significance of Matt Bonner's role on this team.

[ElNono]

You reject being labeled a Bonner hater, saying you are just expressing your opinion on the player's pros and cons. Why then do label those who disagree with your opinion as Bonner lovers?

I don't have a problem with people like you because you're reasonable. But if I point to the Dallas series and you counter by pointing out Bonner had one good game instead of telling me that he came up largely short in those series, I have to conclude you love Bonner more than a serious discussion...

[ElNono]

That's quite an overstatement as to the significance of Matt Bonner's role on this team.

Is it? Do you think we win anyways if he doesn't make those shots last night?
We have talked quite a bit about living by the 3 and dying by the 3...

[Mel_13]

What numbers? Plus minus?
The Dallas series simply displayed that every other relatively good team will exploit Bonner as a mismatch at every opportunity they get. I thought it was pretty clear in the last game against Dallas too. A

So you haven't changed your basic stance? You believe the Spurs would be best served by taking Bonner out of the primary rotation and moving him to the end of the bench or even behind it?

[ElNono]

So you haven't changed your basic stance? You believe the Spurs would be best served by taking Bonner out of the primary rotation and moving him to the end of the bench or even behind it?

He has a role against fluffy frontlines like last night... I have no problem with a 15 mpg role off the bench. Even more minutes if he's hitting his shots, and said so as much. Would I rather have a player that you can play against every frontline? Sure. But we have what we have.

[LOL@MavsFan]

His defense WAS excellent..... for Matt bonner, that is. :toast

I'll take that type of hussle from him EVERY night, thank you very much! :king

Just wait until it counts....the true Ginger will be shown...he still sucks

[coyotes_geek]

Is it? Do you think we win anyways if he doesn't make those shots last night?

Maybe, maybe not. What difference does it make? Bonner was knocking down shots and his teammates were looking for him. If you want to call that making Bonner the difference between winning and losing games, then fine. I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with wide open 3 point shots for Matt Bonner playing a pivotal role in games. You shouldn't either. If it's one of those nights where Bonner isn't hitting, or he's getting killed defensively, then I have no problems whatsoever leaving him on the bench. He's a role player. Some nights the role for him is to play a big part, some nights it isn't. That's far different than saying the Spurs are making Matt Bonner the difference between winning and losing.



We have talked quite a bit about living by the 3 and dying by the 3...

So? Every team in the league lives and dies by something.

[SpurNation]

I have another question for the Bonner lovers like z0sa in this thread... Are you comfortable with the prospect of Bonner being the difference between winning and losing games? Be honest now...

This is a bit absurd. If any role player is having a great game then it's great for the Spurs and makes the other's contributions easier to come by.

I'm very comfortable with the prospect that Bonner (or any other role player) being the difference in helping the team win.

Back at you...If Bonner is having a great game...would you want him benched just because he's Bonner?

[ElNono]

And Mel, one of this days I'd like to have a deeper conversation of what you think the actual team personality should be. Should we be primarily a team that plays suffocating defense and only gives up 90 or less ppg?. Should we focus on being an offensive juggernaut that scores 130 a night? I mean, we would love to be both, I'm sure. But if you can't be both, what do you think the priority should be? And the personnel that plays the most minutes have a lot of say on what personality you want the team to be out there.

[ElNono]

Back at you...If Bonner is having a great game...would you want him benched just because he's Bonner?

No, and stated so many times already. A guy like Bonner you ride for what he can give you. But you also need to make sure he's giving you more than he's taking away. I think we all agree with that.

[Mel_13]

He has a role against fluffy frontlines like last night... I have no problem with a 15 mpg role off the bench. Even more minutes if he's hitting his shots, and said so as much. Would I rather have a player that you can play against every frontline? Sure. But we have what we have.

Then we have a basic point of agreement. Bonner is clearly a role player. As such, he has value. I estimate that value to be greater than you, but we both seem to accept the basic notion that you can only play the cards that you are dealt.

When role players are used as starters, the team in question cannot be a serious contender. I believe much of the anti-Bonner sentiment here stems largely from him being used in a role beyond his abilities. When used properly, he is an asset and a cost effective one at that.

One last thing. Bonner failed in the Dallas series. Previous to that series, he had played 34 minutes of garbage time in 11 playoff games in 07 and 08. In answer to an earlier question you posed, I would not want the ball in Matt Bonner's hands in a critical playoff moment. No team with Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Jefferson, and McDyess should put their fate in Matt Bonner's hands. (see Jannero Pargo, 4th quarter, Game 7, 2008 WCSF for an example of a good role player used in the worst possible way). That all being said, I don't believe the Dallas series provides definitive proof that Bonner can never be of any value in future playoff series. Just wouldn't want him starting or closing.

[SpurNation]

No, and stated so many times already. A guy like Bonner you ride for what he can give you. But you also need to make sure he's giving you more than he's taking away. I think we all agree with that.

As with any other player on the team. Agreed.

As the season gets longer and come playoffs, it is already apparent that with a healthy Duncan, McDyess, Ratliff and Blair...Bonner will be in the situation he should have been in all along.

I can't hate or fault the man for being forced to play a role he had to play last season.

[ElNono]

Maybe, maybe not. What difference does it make? Bonner was knocking down shots and his teammates were looking for him. If you want to call that making Bonner the difference between winning and losing games, then fine. I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with wide open 3 point shots for Matt Bonner playing a pivotal role in games. You shouldn't either. If it's one of those nights where Bonner isn't hitting, or he's getting killed defensively, then I have no problems whatsoever leaving him on the bench. He's a role player. Some nights the role for him is to play a big part, some nights it isn't. That's far different than saying the Spurs are making Matt Bonner the difference between winning and losing.

Make up your mind.


So? Every team in the league lives and dies by something.

Don't disagree. However, I felt much more comfortable when we used to live and die by our defensive play than by hoisting what is probably the lower percentage shot in basketball.

[TJastal]

And Mel, one of this days I'd like to have a deeper conversation of what you think the actual team personality should be. Should we be primarily a team that plays suffocating defense and only gives up 90 or less ppg?. Should we focus on being an offensive juggernaut that scores 130 a night? I mean, we would love to be both, I'm sure. But if you can't be both, what do you think the priority should be? And the personnel that plays the most minutes have a lot of say on what personality you want the team to be out there.

I have always maintained that the spurs should aspire to play good defense and try to set a tone defensively with each game, and it seems Popovich has started to implement lineups that try to accomplish this.


But, with the whacky rules that Stern implemented and his lap dog refs basically making wing players like Kobe and Lebron virtually unstoppable you need to have guys that can score in bunches in order to keep pace.

So if Bonner can keep "heating up" like he's been doing that's a huge asset. Same for Roger Mason, these type of guys have value coming off the bench.

[coyotes_geek]

Make up your mind.

My mind is made up. I don't think the Spurs are making Matt Bonner the difference between winning and losing. If you do, more power to you.


Don't disagree. However, I felt much more comfortable when we used to live and die by our defensive play than by hoisting what is probably the lower percentage shot in basketball.

No doubt the defense needs to improve, but even when the Spurs were playing the caliber of defense we know and love the offense was still predicated on the 3 point shot opening things up for Duncan down low.

[ElNono]

Then we have a basic point of agreement. Bonner is clearly a role player. As such, he has value. I estimate that value to be greater than you, but we both seem to accept the basic notion that you can only play the cards that you are dealt.

Correct.


When role players are used as starters, the team in question cannot be a serious contender. I believe much of the anti-Bonner sentiment here stems largely from him being used in a role beyond his abilities. When used properly, he is an asset and a cost effective one at that.

Correct.


One last thing. Bonner failed in the Dallas series. Previous to that series, he had played 34 minutes of garbage time in 11 playoff games in 07 and 08. In answer to an earlier question you posed, I would not want the ball in Matt Bonner's hands in a critical playoff moment. No team with Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Jefferson, and McDyess should put their fate in Matt Bonner's hands. (see Jannero Pargo, 4th quarter, Game 7, 2008 WCSF for an example of a good role player used in the worst possible way). That all being said, I don't believe the Dallas series provides definitive proof that Bonner can never be of any value in future playoff series. Just wouldn't want him starting or closing.

Some people here need to understand that when we say Bonner is a liability, it's not necessarily in every single matchup. It's not "hate" also.
Against the really good teams out there, which eventually you will have to face and beat, he's just a terrible matchup. If I'm Carslile, then I want Dirk facing Bonner every possession. If I'm Karl, I want Nene posting him up every possession. If I'm Phil Jackson, I want Gasol/Bynum taking on him on the post on every possession. If I'm Orlando, I'll go to Howard every single time. If I'm Boston, then I want Perkins taking on him. Rinse and repeat...

[Mel_13]

And Mel, one of this days I'd like to have a deeper conversation of what you think the actual team personality should be. Should we be primarily a team that plays suffocating defense and only gives up 90 or less ppg?. Should we focus on being an offensive juggernaut that scores 130 a night? I mean, we would love to be both, I'm sure. But if you can't be both, what do you think the priority should be? And the personnel that plays the most minutes have a lot of say on what personality you want the team to be out there.

I'd like to have that conversation as well.

Short answer. Stifling defense is a proven championship winner. Offensive juggernauts, not so much.

If you have the personnel to play top-3 defense, that should be the priority. That seems to be the crux of the dilemma faced by our favorite team. If you don't have the personnel to be a top-3 defense, what do you do? Where do you strike the balance between adding scoring punch if it weakens defense?

There are many here who attribute the fall from elite defender status to a lack of will or commitment. I'm more of the opinion that it represents an acknowledgment of the skill sets available on the current roster. When I watch Pop's body language on the sideline of every home game, it is clear to me that his focus is still on the defensive side of the ball. The reactions you never see on TV are priceless. Offensive miscues usually don't provoke much reaction, but when they give up an open 3 or an offensive board you can see his head about to explode.

[ElNono]

No doubt the defense needs to improve, but even when the Spurs were playing the caliber of defense we know and love the offense was still predicated on the 3 point shot opening things up for Duncan down low.

I think we're on the right path defensively.

[ElNono]

As with any other player on the team. Agreed.

As the season gets longer and come playoffs, it is already apparent that with a healthy Duncan, McDyess, Ratliff and Blair...Bonner will be in the situation he should have been in all along.

I can't hate or fault the man for being forced to play a role he had to play last season.

Agree.

[ElNono]

I'd like to have that conversation as well.

Short answer. Stifling defense is a proven championship winner. Offensive juggernauts, not so much.

If you have the personnel to play top-3 defense, that should be the priority. That seems to be the crux of the dilemma faced by our favorite team. If you don't have the personnel to be a top-3 defense, what do you do? Where do you strike the balance between adding scoring punch if it weakens defense?

There are many here who attribute the fall from elite defender status to a lack of will or commitment. I'm more of the opinion that it represents an acknowledgment of the skill sets available on the current roster. When I watch Pop's body language on the sideline of every home game, it is clear to me that his focus is still on the defensive side of the ball. The reactions you never see on TV are priceless. Offensive miscues usually don't provoke much reaction, but when they give up an open 3 or an offensive board you can see his head about to explode.

I didn't think we necessarily had the personnel until I saw Bogans and Ratliff. Hill I heard he was a good defender, and he did well against the rook last night, but he's not a seasoned NBA player, meaning he will get little to no respect from the officials when it comes to guarding the Kobe and Melo's of the NBA. Bogans plays with a lot of energy and he seems to thrive in his defensive pitbull role. I'll reserve judgement on how good he really is after we played some of the better teams out there, but I think his energy and hustle on the defensive end are exciting. Ratliff, I wanted to see if he had something left in the tank. He does. He's not a great rebounder, but he can help Tim protect the paint. And Dice gives you a guy that seems to do ok guarding the more mobile bigs like Dirk out there.

I think there's no reason why we shouldn't be a top 3 defensive team. But you kind of need to primarily stick to the guys that give you that identity.

[Mel_13]

Against the really good teams out there, which eventually you will have to face and beat, he's just a terrible matchup. If I'm Carslile, then I want Dirk facing Bonner every possession. If I'm Karl, I want Nene posting him up every possession. If I'm Phil Jackson, I want Gasol/Bynum taking on him on the post on every possession. If I'm Orlando, I'll go to Howard every single time. If I'm Boston, then I want Perkins taking on him. Rinse and repeat...

No argument there. You don't want Bonner matched against the elite big men of the NBA. That's pretty obvious. That's also the perfect case against using him as a starter. It's also a good case for a very limited role in a playoff series against the Lakers. I can't see him playing a useful role if he has to guard Bynum, Gasol, or Odom. Against the Lakers, you have to cover as many of the 96 minutes at PF/C as possible with Duncan, Dice, and Theo. I'm not sure whether Bonner, Blair, or small ball would be the best option for the remaining minutes. Let's hope those minutes are very limited.

Against some other possible playoff opponents he could work when matched against second line bigs.

[Mel_13]

I didn't think we necessarily had the personnel until I saw Bogans and Ratliff. Hill I heard he was a good defender, and he did well against the rook last night, but he's not a seasoned NBA player, meaning he will get little to no respect from the officials when it comes to guarding the Kobe and Melo's of the NBA. Bogans plays with a lot of energy and he seems to thrive in his defensive pitbull role. I'll reserve judgement on how good he really is after we played some of the better teams out there, but I think his energy and hustle on the defensive end are exciting. Ratliff, I wanted to see if he had something left in the tank. He does. He's not a great rebounder, but he can help Tim protect the paint. And Dice gives you a guy that seems to do ok guarding the more mobile bigs like Dirk out there.

I think there's no reason why we shouldn't be a top 3 defensive team. But you kind of need to primarily stick to the guys that give you that identity.

I agree with most of that, especially about the potential for a very good perimeter defense. I'd only take issue with Theo's role. I believe we'll see a greatly increased role for Theo in the playoffs,. His health history tells me that he will not play 15-20 minutes a night over the course of the regular season. So I believe we'll see him play major minutes in only a small percentage of regular season games. So while we may have the personnel to play on the level of a top-3 defensive team on a given night, I'm not sure that it will be possible to do so over the long haul of the regular season.

[all_heart]

I'll admit it, I was a Bonner hater and wanted his ass outta SA, however now that he's coming off the bench and making a few shots, I appreciate him 10x more than I ever did. He seems more confident and hustles a bit more, perhaps he has more incentive to play better to earn more minutes.. fine with me. We shouldn't expect this from him every night but if he has a good game every few outings it's a plus. Big question is how will he do in the playoffs? Will he fade like he did last year or can he actually be a clutch player when it counts the most?

A few words about Hill, I can see why he's Pop favorite player, he has a nice jumpshot, hustles on D, and just looks comfortable out there. He actually looks a little more spry than Tony out there... imagine that! :wow

[ElNono]

No argument there. You don't want Bonner matched against the elite big men of the NBA. That's pretty obvious. That's also the perfect case against using him as a starter. It's also a good case for a very limited role in a playoff series against the Lakers. I can't see him playing a useful role if he has to guard Bynum, Gasol, or Odom. Against the Lakers, you have to cover as many of the 96 minutes at PF/C as possible with Duncan, Dice, and Theo. I'm not sure whether Bonner, Blair, or small ball would be the best option for the remaining minutes. Let's hope those minutes are very limited.

Against some other possible playoff opponents he could work when matched against second line bigs.


I agree with most of that, especially about the potential for a very good perimeter defense. I'd only take issue with Theo's role. I believe we'll see a greatly increased role for Theo in the playoffs,. His health history tells me that he will not play 15-20 minutes a night over the course of the regular season. So I believe we'll see him play major minutes in only a small percentage of regular season games. So while we may have the personnel to play on the level of a top-3 defensive team on a given night, I'm not sure that it will be possible to do so over the long haul of the regular season.

Nothing to add really. :tu

[NFGIII]

Great game from Matt! Props to him. Having said that he will at times turn into that guy many love to kick around and immediately trade. He hasn't been consistent and until he becomes dependable off the bench night in and night out we will keep seeing and up and down Bonner. Tonight was definitely up and I hope this is his niche and he becomes comfortable with it. If I can see Bonner producing 10 - 15 pt/4-7 rebounds with adequate D - I really don't think he will be a consistenly good defender but if he can just be OK /adequate I would take that - I'm happy with hm. And when he is scoring the spacing improves giving the low post players room to operate.

[UnWantedTheory]

but if it was Bogans with 23 points and an on/offcourt of +26, you'd be raving uncontrollably like a teenager about twilight :lol

try, just try, a couple hours a week, to be objective. it can be freeing

What is this to be ob-jec-tive mean? Damnit man! Speak to us in English.

[superjames1992]

http://www.nba.com/playoffs2009/seriesWest3/

My opinion is that he works for certain matchups. For others, he's really not useful. Some people think that it's "hate" to say that. It's not. If he had to guard Bogut last night, maybe we would have been looking at something else. And for all his great shooting, his defensive assignment scored 20 points.
I love how Bonner gets one playoff series and he doesn't do great, so now he sucks at the postseason.

Wow, seriously? You all do know that Robert Horry was horrible in his first playoff series appearance. How did that work out?

[ElNono]

I love how Bonner gets one playoff series and he doesn't do great, so now he sucks at the postseason.

Mel wanted evidence of Bonner hurting the team, and I provided it.
Will that change or not? I don't know. I sure feel better now that he has a limited role, because one thing is for sure: He's not turning into Robert Horry anytime soon.

[portnoy1]

Plus-minus is not a defensive stat. Look at defensive stats, like rebounding, and you'll notice he's a career subpar rebounder. If you actually watch the games, you will know he can't handle big, long guys. And in some cases, his defense is ridiculous. Where were you when Okur was driving right around him and straight into the paint?. You're just mesmerized by his offense, and basically ignore everything else. You also have very short selective memory. Matt Bonner is what it is. When he's on offensively, he'll give you a boost and relieve pressure on scoring the ball. When he's not on, he needs to sit down ASAP.
Remember that Okur also drove past Antonio Mcdyess as well. Thats not all on Matt Bonner. When Mehmet Okur thinks its a good idea to drive than to shoot an open 3, thats when you have to re-analyze your defensive scheme. The spurs thus far have been playing better defense.

[portnoy1]

I love how Bonner gets one playoff series and he doesn't do great, so now he sucks at the postseason.

Wow, seriously? You all do know that Robert Horry was horrible in his first playoff series appearance. How did that work out?
Robert Horry had several skills to begin with. He was tall and agile. He could shoot, play D and some other intangibles. Matt Bonner can shoot and hustle and aaaahhhhhhh thats about it.

[Jose Ole]

Chuck Norris could easily have stopped Matt Bonner last night... end of thread?