Bogans/Hill

[ElNono]

The difference tonight, IMHO.

Obviously TD dominated, and Matt was great off the bench. But when we needed to buckle up and play some serious D, I thought those two were incredibly solid.

[DesignatedT]

hill definitely played a great ball game- all around

didnt see much out of bogans tonight IMO.

[DPG21920]

The difference tonight, IMHO.

Obviously TD dominated, and Matt was great off the bench. But when we needed to buckle up and play some serious D, I thought those two were incredibly solid.


Bogans & Hill. If the Spurs can get consistently good play from those two, it would go a long way.

[SamoanTD]

boooggiiieee man!!!!!!!!!!!! Is coming for ya!!!!!!

[angelbelow]

hill definitely played a great ball game- all around

didnt see much out of bogans tonight IMO.

Bogans was DEFINITELY a difference maker tonight. He made great defensive plays and a few strong moves on offense. I loved what we got out of him tonight.

[ElNono]

didnt see much out of bogans tonight IMO.

He had two steals to start the second half that I thought set the tone defensively after a terrible 2nd quarter.
Offensively, I'll take anything he can give us, but that's not why he's out there.

[pawe]

I hope Pop plays Bogans more, i believe he can be the cooler the Spurs lost in Bruce.

[DesignatedT]

yeah after seeing his box score seemed like he had more solid game than i thought.

[Bartleby]

The 4pt. play was kind of cool, too.

[DPG21920]

At least Mason is starting to play more active and confident. Not everyone on the team is going to be great defensively, but the Spurs need Mason's offense. As long as everyone is active and giving effort on the defensive end, I am happy.

[SamoanTD]

He had two steals to start the second half that I thought set the tone defensively after a terrible 2nd quarter.
Offensively, I'll take anything he can give us, but that's not why he's out there.
exactly its nice to see him flying around out there on the defencive end diving for that steal was nice to see and him putting the ball on the floor

[HarlemHeat37]

At least Mason is starting to play more active and confident. Not everyone on the team is going to be great defensively, but the Spurs need Mason's offense. As long as everyone is active and giving effort on the defensive end, I am happy.

I don't really care about his defense, like you said, not everyone will be great defensively..I'd be happy with last year's Mason..will we continue to get that though?..if we do, our 1-3 is sexy as fuck..

[Blackjack]

I want George Hill to make sex to me.:)

[SamoanTD]

I don't really care about his defense, like you said, not everyone will be great defensively..I'd be happy with last year's Mason..will we continue to get that though?..if we do, our 1-3 is sexy as fuck..
:lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

GHILL3 put jenny in her seat tonight

[EP Money Man]

Gotta come up w/a nickname for the defensive duo.

Boogey and Arms?

[bigbendbruisebrother]

The difference tonight, IMHO.

Obviously TD dominated, and Matt was great off the bench. But when we needed to buckle up and play some serious D, I thought those two were incredibly solid.

They were all solid on D, even Finley and Bonner for a change. :lol

Hill +4
Duncan +12
Finley +16
Bogans +18
Bonner +26

[Blackjack]

Honestly, that may be the best point-guard play George has ever bestowed upon us; the guy's ceiling is just ridiculous.

Bogans and Hill on the perimeter is really starting to make me believe another defensive wing would be a luxury and not a necessity. Their size isn't all that ideal but Jefferson can at least be decent against the bigger, stronger wings and Hill and Bogans can really keep people out of the middle of the floor with their quickness and tenacity; and yeah, Bogans needs to continue to start. (I'd like to see them stick with tonight's starting-five, actually)

I knew Bogans was a good defender, but I underrated his quickness. He's just a great fit in this system. Even his perceived shortcomings on offense fit well. He's not the greatest play-maker or ball-handler but this offense allows him seams and openings off of defensive rotations that he's able to capitalize on; he's given the Bowen treatment offensively but he's more than capable of making a play with the defense on their heels. Hopefully that three-point stroke continues to improve..

Got damn, I love me some perimeter defense. :hungry:

[z0sa]

Still too early. Manu will change the equation decidedly again. Late in the season, nearly anything could have happened.

[ElNono]

They were all solid on D, even Finley and Bonner for a change. :lol

Hill +4
Duncan +12
Finley +16
Bogans +18
Bonner +26

You need to get away from plus-minus. I mean, whoever played with RJ out there tonight had his plus/minus go down (TD should have had a +88 tonight).
Hill contested shots left and right, and that will probably not show on the stat sheet either.

[Blackjack]

Too early for what?

Manu's not starting and him being healthy or not doesn't change how promising the play of Hill and Bogans has been..

[SpurNation]

Bogans...I think he might have found a home. And with Hill getting better with each game he plays....The Youth Movement is On. A healthy Ginobili back in the lineup and the Spurs are gong to be sick.

Side note: Bucks shoot a tad over 49% but could have been higher if not for the great D. Bucks have some talent on that team.

Impressive win for the Spurs.

[z0sa]

Too early for what?

Too early for me to make a judgment. Hill and Bogans have played good, even great, thus far - and I hope it continues. I'm just not sure what's going to happen when Manu gets back.

Maybe that's where we differ:


Manu's not starting and him being healthy or not doesn't change how promising the play of Hill and Bogans has been..

I think Manu's health, or lack thereof, has quantifiable effects on Hill and Bogans.

[Blackjack]

You need to get away from plus-minus. I mean, whoever played with RJ out there tonight had his plus/minus go down (TD should have had a +88 tonight).
Hill contested shots left and right, and that will probably not show on the stat sheet either.

RJ's really got some bad habits he's picked up defensively over the last few years; a couple of those Delfino close-outs.. :wow

[Interrohater]

Still too early. Manu will change the equation decidedly again. Late in the season, nearly anything could have happened.

Definitely agree. However, I see Manu bumping Mason's minutes down more than Bogan's. Maybe Fin too. I have no idea how that will all play out, to be honest. It's refreshing to have this kind of problem though, with too much talent at the positions.

[crc21209]

Hill and Bogans on the floor at the same time is an awesome combo. George's arms are so damn long he can bother defenders without even trying, and Bogans is just a BEAST on D...:tu

[ducks]

to early
I think not
people say it will change when manu is back
how long will he last though?

[SpurNation]

Ginobili back is going to bump either Mason or Fin...and at the rate Mason is improving with each game...I think it will be Fin.

But then again...each game will present different situations that Pop may have to explore while the game is being played.

Definately a great problem to have as long as the one bumped can still play with confidence when and if called upon.

[Blackjack]

Too early for me to make a judgment. Hill and Bogans have played good, even great, thus far - and I hope it continues. I'm just not sure what's going to happen when Manu gets back.

Maybe you weren't responding to my post or you just misunderstood but, I wasn't suggesting they needed to be starting and/or playing the majority of the game together..


I think Manu's health, or lack thereof, has quantifiable effects on Hill and Bogans.

Manu's the 6th-Man, Bogans should assume the Bowen role, and George is the backup point.

The success those two have now should only bode well for when Manu returns.

Sure, the minutes for Hill are probably in the most flux upon a Manu return, but he's not a one-dimensional scorer that needs big-time minutes to leave his imprint on the game. He can come in and reek a little havoc defensively, bring energy/hustle to the floor, and, on some nights like tonight, steal minutes from Tony by outplaying him..

It's too early to set a wing-rotation, but it's never too early to see the type of promising play we're getting from Bogans in Hill; particularly when what they're displaying addresses a Spurs' need.

I really hope they stick with the: Parker - Bogans - Jefferson - Duncan - McDyess lineup..

[ElNono]

At least, this season we can go to a lineup that plays D for those grind it out games when the ball doesn't wanna go in. This is something we didn't have last season, and definitely something to be excited about.

[z0sa]

Maybe you weren't responding to my post or you just misunderstood but, I wasn't suggesting they needed to be starting and/or playing the majority of the game together..

You asked too early for what? you were talking to me, yes?

I'm unsure of Manu's future with the team. I'm unsure of whether or not he will even continue being the 6th man. How can you be sure?




Manu's the 6th-Man, Bogans should assume the Bowen role, and George is the backup point.

RJ draws his share of defensive assignments, and it will continue more and more as he becomes more acclimated to Popovich's schemes. And I hope GHill continues getting minutes with Parker. We'll see when Manu comes back.


The success those two have now should only bode well for when Manu returns.

Perhaps. Still too early to tell. Perhaps we will see when Manu is healthy.


Sure, the minutes for Hill are probably in the most flux upon a Manu return, but he's not a one-dimensional scorer that needs big-time minutes to leave his imprint on the game. He can come in and reek a little havoc defensively, bring energy/hustle to the floor, and, on some nights like tonight, steal minutes from Tony by outplaying him..

Agreed that Hill has the capabilites to be a defensive stopper. IMO, it somewhat nullifies Bogans contributions. He's an above average defensive player and good to have around, but between the two, I choose Hill. However, Manu isn't healthy right now so I'm glad he's available.




It's too early to set a wing-rotation, but it's never too early to see the type of promising play we're getting from Bogans in Hill; particularly when what they're displaying addresses a Spurs' need.

So you understood my statement, you just feel it is misplaced. I agree they played well. I also feel it is too early to take much away from it. I wasn't trying to say that outright, just imply it.


I really hope they stick with the: Parker - Bogans - Jefferson - Duncan - McDyess lineup..

I like it too, though I think its interchangeable with Hill -- and Hill might need the PT for confidence a lot more than the older, more experienced Bogans.

[duhoh]

good to hear that bogans is doing ok

[Blackjack]

You asked too early for what? you were talking to me, yes?

Yes, I was talking to you but your 'too early' comment that got my response could've been directed to someone else's post; confused yet? (I sure as hell am. :lol)


I'm unsure of Manu's future with the team. I'm unsure of whether or not he will even continue being the 6th man. How can you be sure?

I think it's a pretty safe assumption given history and the desire to limit his minutes.

Im not saying there won't be a handful of games where he starts, whether Pop just wants a different look or they find it more conducive coming back from the type of injuries he's had recently, but I expect him to be the 6th-Man for the majority of the season.



RJ draws his share of defensive assignments, and it will continue more and more as he becomes more acclimated to Popovich's schemes. And I hope GHill continues getting minutes with Parker. We'll see when Manu comes back.

Check.



Perhaps. Still too early to tell. Perhaps we will see when Manu is healthy.

I think this is where there's been something lost in translation..

Bogans and Hill playing the way they are defensively at this moment can only bode well for when Manu returns; that's really all I was trying to say to start.

Coming into the season, I had two big question marks for this team: 1.) The perimeter stopper; and 2.) The defensive-4/5

What those two combined to bring, is the possibility that one of those two holes can be filled from within. Whether Manu's healthy or not, that's a priority that had to be addressed in my eyes; I've never viewed RJ as the answer.


Agreed that Hill has the capabilites to be a defensive stopper. IMO, it somewhat nullifies Bogans contributions. He's an above average defensive player and good to have around, but between the two, I choose Hill. However, Manu isn't healthy right now so I'm glad he's available.

I can't agree that Hill nullifies Bogans. Hill might be my favorite player not named Tim and I've admittedly been a huge proponent of his from Day-1, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he's a 6-2 guard.

Bogans is even a little undersized for my liking, but he's a bulldog and a better matchup for the more conventional wings.



So you understood my statement, you just feel it is misplaced. I agree they played well. I also feel it is too early to take much away from it. I wasn't trying to say that outright, just imply it.

I understood and agreed that it's too early to set a rotation, I just wasn't sure if the rotation was the only thing you were referring to; which judging from your comments, you weren't.

As I've said before, Bogans and Hill playing well now can only be a positive.

Manu coming back isn't going to change the fact that the Spurs have realized more depth and found two more weapons on the perimeter to throw at the elite wings in this league.



I like it too, though I think its interchangeable with Hill -- and Hill might need the PT for confidence a lot more than the older, more experienced Bogans.

I'm not opposed to Hill getting a start every now and then, I just wouldn't want them doing it in, how Pop would say it, perpetuity.

Hill's like a younger Manu, Bobby Jackson, and Devin Harris all rolled up into one when they were 6th-Men and/or at the early stages of their NBA career; a real X-Factor..

[PURO SAN ANTO 210!]

Bogans the pitt!!!!!!!!!!!

[SenorSpur]

Hill and Bogans together present formidable defensive challenge to any opponent. They're both tenacious, aggressive and they really get after it.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Bogans must start. Every time I see him start the team has an edge defensively, and that sets the tone for the game. Play him as many or as few minutes after the first quarter as you like, but start him. He's a bulldog on defense, and has a few shiny moves at the other end.

George also had a great game. Incredible defence on Jennings, patchy but capable of the amazing on offense... he still has those SG instincts that kick in and stifle his distributional instincts at times, but he also has the scorers knack.

Nice! :D

PS I've said it before and I'll say it again, THIS is the way to use Bonner. Scorer and energy big off the bench. Bonner is a below average starter, way below on the defensive end, but he's an above average bench player with that killer 3-ball and decent moves to the hole (if used occasionally). Also, against other bench players his energetic but athletically lacking defense isn't such a liability.

PPS When Manu comes back, start him and make RJ the 6th man?

PPPS More Dice-RJ pnrs please...

PPPPS Timmy, you can still take over a game (classic Duncan 3rd Q today)...

PPPPPS Shake the rust off, Tony. Find your legs and you'll be fine. :)

[mountainballer]

the pg and wing rotation is currently more complicated than it seems on first sight. if you take away Bonners hot 3pt shooting of the last games, it really doesn't look good in this department.
Fin also has cooled down, ok this would make this decision easy, any minute that goes from him to Bogans improves the defense.
but even if Bogans hits his 3s on a decent rate, the Spurs have a hole to fill. Tony, Hill, JR, even with improved shooting from Hill, neither can (and will be) a true sniper.
I was all for it to give Mason's minutes to Hill and Bogans, but I see the problem it would produce. currently Spurs are somehow trapped to still give Mason significant minutes and hope that his stroke returns. otherwise the whole system doesn't work Spurslike.
back courts like Tony-Bogans-JR, Tony-Hill-JR, Tony-Hill-Bogans, miss something, even if you add Bonner to any of this line ups. Spurs can reduce Finley's minutes to get a better overall defense, but not Fin AND Mason's. (especially with Manu out)
point is, Mason either get's back on track quickly, or we need a trade right now and not at deadline. (unfortunately Miller is out for some weeks. he once more would have been perfect, his big contract aside.)

[Spurs Brazil]

Bogans and especially GH3 D were great yesterday.

Hill killed the rookie and Bogans D in the 3rd was key for the win

[ElNono]

to early
I think not
people say it will change when manu is back
how long will he last though?

Better last long enough because we're not winning anything without him...

[ManuTastic]

the pg and wing rotation is currently more complicated than it seems on first sight. if you take away Bonners hot 3pt shooting of the last games, it really doesn't look good in this department.
Fin also has cooled down, ok this would make this decision easy, any minute that goes from him to Bogans improves the defense.
but even if Bogans hits his 3s on a decent rate, the Spurs have a hole to fill. Tony, Hill, JR, even with improved shooting from Hill, neither can (and will be) a true sniper.
I was all for it to give Mason's minutes to Hill and Bogans, but I see the problem it would produce. currently Spurs are somehow trapped to still give Mason significant minutes and hope that his stroke returns. otherwise the whole system doesn't work Spurslike.
back courts like Tony-Bogans-JR, Tony-Hill-JR, Tony-Hill-Bogans, miss something, even if you add Bonner to any of this line ups. Spurs can reduce Finley's minutes to get a better overall defense, but not Fin AND Mason's. (especially with Manu out)
point is, Mason either get's back on track quickly, or we need a trade right now and not at deadline. (unfortunately Miller is out for some weeks. he once more would have been perfect, his big contract aside.)

I think I agree with this--if I understand you to mean we are still lacking a reliable starting distance gunner a la Bowen. If Bonner hadn't gone "El Fuego" last night it might have been a far different game, and I for one don't want to rely on a hot Bonner. I guess in the case of a cold Bonner you can call on Finley and/or Mason to hit some 3's, but I'm not sure how much comfort I take from that prospect either. Although Mason has been looking much better recently.
With Duncan, Parker, Jefferson and Dice we have 4 starters who play well only inside the arc, plus Bogans, a good defender but iffy shooter. If an opponent plays some good interior D and Bonner's not hitting 3s, what's the plan? Once upon a time I'd have said leave it to Manu, but I'm not so sure how often he can even be penciled in any more.

[mingus]

RMJ or Finley, or maybe even both, will probably be gone by the trade deadline. George Hill's consistent touch from three this year has really lowered their value for this team. if Bogans continues to stroke it well you can pretty much say it will happen definitively.

i'm not sure about contracts and all of that, but a guy like Troy Murphy, who i had on my fantasy team last year, would fit great for this team; great rebounder and he can hit the three. Indy has got somewhat of a glut of bigs with Murphy, Foster, Hibbert, and Hansborough, and they're probably a lot more willing to part ways with Foster, but throw in throw in Ian, Splitter or Bonner to make it more enticing.

i'm being ignorant of the contracts, but it sounds reasonable enough.

[DaBears]

I thought they played well together, i thought at times when TP was in the game though he threw his other teammates rythm off a bit and that is why they game back last night in second qtr.. But back to title of thread yes i agree G Hill and Bogans played really good D. hopefully they can build and continue to grow...

Side not really pleased with G Hill's offensive game and Bogans as well. Shooting really well.

[DaBears]

RMJ looks great to... It was just a matter of time till he calmed down and found his shooting touch again... Look forward to more.

[dbestpro]

The defense that Hill plays is over the top. The question for me is he the shooting guard or the point guard of the future? I use to laugh to think that he could replace Tony, but as he continues to improve I am not so sure. He very well may be one of the top defensive PGs in the league already.

With TP, Hill, Blair and maybe Splitter the Spurs may actually be able to transition past the Duncan era and remain in playoff contention.

[manu_maniac]

If we manage to get Splitter over here, we will definitely still be in the playoffs without Duncan, but I'm don't think we'll be able to say any more than that. That doesn't matter right now, though. We just have to wait until we get past our growing pains, and everyone gels together this season.

[NFGIII]

I knew Bogans was a good defender, but I underrated his quickness. He's just a great fit in this system. Even his perceived shortcomings on offense fit well. He's not the greatest play-maker or ball-handler but this offense allows him seams and openings off of defensive rotations that he's able to capitalize on; he's given the Bowen treatment offensively but he's more than capable of making a play with the defense on their heels. Hopefully that three-point stroke continues to improve..

Got damn, I love me some perimeter defense. :hungry:

He really does seem to fit well in this system. Some people need a system that fits their personality/abilities in order to be a solid contributor. This could be one of those pickups tat is viewed as a "filler" that blossoms and turns into the exact type of role player needed to really help this team.

He kinda reminds me of when Bruce came on board. Good defender but with a limited O. Even Bruce's former coach Riley bashed him as a poor offensive player who's time in the league was runnng out. He played for several teams already and hadn't found a home yet. I think Bruce and Keith really fit well with Pop's defensive scheme. I really expect Bogans to be a contributor from here on out and hopefully for years to come.

This team has it's stars and needs role players to compliment them. Bogans so far seems to fit the bill.

:flag:

[mingus]

guys, calm down with the Bogans/Bowen comparisons. Bogans needs to throw a karate kick or two before he's mentioned alongside Bruce Lee Bowen.

[EP Money Man]

Hill and Bogans on the floor at the same time is an awesome combo. George's arms are so damn long he can bother defenders without even trying, and Bogans is just a BEAST on D...:tu

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=153&pictureid=993

[ducks]

Better last long enough because we're not winning anything without him...
spurs can win a title without him
they got reinforcements
spurs are tired of counting on manu being heealthy for playoffs
so they got rj,blair and bogans

and are willing to pay the tax