What to do with RJ

[ElNono]

You can tell he's not comfortable out there. He needs the ball in his hands. He's turning into a spot up shooter when he's with the starting unit and we need him to be much more than that.

- Does Pop need to call and iso or two just for him to see if we can get him going?
- Should we move him to the bench and let him handle the rock more often in that role?
- Do we just let him be a spot up shooter and live with whatever he can give us?
- Is it too early to worry about this?

This is not a knock on RJ. I'm just interested in what you all think...

[HarlemHeat37]

It's not too early at all..this is the time we should be talking about this and adjusting to RJ's game..

Jefferson isn't a great 1 on 1 player at all..that's pretty much all he's getting right now from an individual standpoint..1 on 1 or spot-up shooting, and he isn't great at either of those..he can do it against certain teams, but not against most..

We've seen some success from RJ when he's coming off screens towards the basket..curling to the basket during the 2-man game with Duncan..quick moves off the catch and driving baseline..pretty good at posting up..great at finishing on the break..we just need to see more of that..

He CAN'T play consistently when it's 1 on 1 off the dribble, especially when he's doing it through the middle..that isn't working, and I don't want to see it anymore..

[murpjf88]

Nothing. You can't fix what is broken. You can't give him the ball and tell him to create his own shot because he can't finish. You can't have him drive the lane because he'll lose the basketball. The only you can do is let him shoot spot up jump shots. He can't screw that up. The spurs dropped the ball. They needed a player like vince and settled for a player in RJ. It will probably cost them in the long run

[timvp]

The main problem with RJ right now is lack of spacing when he's on the court with Duncan. It's difficult for him to post up when Duncan is also down low. Plus his driving lanes aren't as open with TD on the court. Add in the fact that RJ isn't a very good pick-and-roll player at this point and it has him struggling to spread his wings.

I think Pop needs to call more plays for RJ to get him going early. Running more often will help. Duncan also needs to figure out what RJ likes to do and go to the high post more often.

It's a work in progress but I don't think it's time to worry. If the same issues are around come Christmas, then it may be time for more drastic efforts.

[bigdog]

I think the problem is actually with Parker. With Parker in the game at the same time, Jefferson is much less effective. I'd like to see more running, also. Another thing would be to possibly run those same plays where Finley comes off screens for Jefferson. Another thing would be to maybe run some plays that are set for RJ to cut to the basket like maybe a backdoor play. Posting him up works only when Duncan is either at the high post or out of the game. Like timvp said, his cutting lanes aren't open right now, so the spurs need to find a way to get him going, and get him going early.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

maybe he should starts moving around more and work harder to get to where he wants the ball EARLY... i always see him stand beyond the three point arc ...i mean i even see bogans slashes to the basket more times than RJ does ...

[024]

i would like to see him concentrate more on defense and then taking over the scoring load when duncan and parker aren't on the floor.

[honestfool84]

i wouldn't mind him being regulated to the bench.. but then what happens to manu?

like many of y'all have said, i think it's a bit early to worry, but come january...if we still have a problem, then we can start worrying.

[exstatic]

We're not even close to having set rotations yet. When everyone is healthy and playing normal minutes, Pop will start mixing and matching and working out combos to be on the floor together.

[Spursfan092120]

Nothing. You can't fix what is broken. You can't give him the ball and tell him to create his own shot because he can't finish. You can't have him drive the lane because he'll lose the basketball. The only you can do is let him shoot spot up jump shots. He can't screw that up. The spurs dropped the ball. They needed a player like vince and settled for a player in RJ. It will probably cost them in the long run
Very dumb post here...RJ has a lot of talent, as he showed when Tony and Tim were out of the lineup. He CAN drive..he CAN create...have you even watched the Spurs this year? When put with the right lineup, and the right offensive strategy, he does a lot of good things for this team on offense. He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do.

[jag]

I think the problem is actually with Parker.

This is getting irritating.

[duhoh]

Nothing. You can't fix what is broken. You can't give him the ball and tell him to create his own shot because he can't finish. You can't have him drive the lane because he'll lose the basketball. The only you can do is let him shoot spot up jump shots. He can't screw that up. The spurs dropped the ball. They needed a player like vince and settled for a player in RJ. It will probably cost them in the long run

retardation has hit a new low :wow

[murpjf88]

retardation has hit a new low :wow

Your wearing blinders. Come back to this thread after game 40. If you wanna see a retard, look in the mirror.

[all_heart]

Nothing. You can't fix what is broken. You can't give him the ball and tell him to create his own shot because he can't finish. You can't have him drive the lane because he'll lose the basketball. The only you can do is let him shoot spot up jump shots. He can't screw that up. The spurs dropped the ball. They needed a player like vince and settled for a player in RJ. It will probably cost them in the long run

Can't agree w/this. RJ can finish, that's not the problem. I think Pop needs to call plays for him and like timvp said, spacing needs to be right for him. I would like to see RJ attack the basket more often and just takes what the defensive gives him w/out forcing anything, cause like you said he loses the ball, bad shot etc.. I wouldn't worry about RJ.

[draft87]

Nothing. You can't fix what is broken. You can't give him the ball and tell him to create his own shot because he can't finish. You can't have him drive the lane because he'll lose the basketball. The only you can do is let him shoot spot up jump shots. He can't screw that up. The spurs dropped the ball. They needed a player like vince and settled for a player in RJ. It will probably cost them in the long run


retardation has hit a new low :wow


Your wearing blinders. Come back to this thread after game 40. If you wanna see a retard, look in the mirror.


I haven't noticed Murpjf88 that much...is this person an intentional button pusher? like, someone pretending to be totally stupid? Looks like it, Vince>RJ ...."Your=You're"......really retarded basketball talk..... people aren't REALLY that dumb, right?

[timvp]

I think the problem is actually with Parker.

This is a weird myth. Most of RJ's open jumpers that he has gotten in the last few games have been due to Parker's penetration.

Tonight, for example, when RJ played with Parker he got seven field goal attempts in 18 minutes. When he played with Hill running the show, he got two field goal attempts in 14 minutes.

[Spursfan092120]

I haven't noticed Murpjf88 that much...is this person an intentional button pusher? like, someone pretending to be totally stupid? Looks like it, Vince>RJ ...."Your=You're"......really retarded basketball talk..... people aren't REALLY that dumb, right?
If and how he reacts to this post will tell us the answer.

[Spursfan092120]

This is a weird myth. Most of RJ's open jumpers that he has gotten in the last few games have been due to Parker's penetration.

Tonight, for example, when RJ played with Parker he got seven field goal attempts in 18 minutes. When he played with Hill running the show, he got two field goal attempts in 14 minutes.
That's true. I was there tonight. I too was one of the "Parker is RJ's problem" guys. It really seemed tonight that they looked better...RJ just didn't seem too comfortable. Maybe it's us. I mean..in Milwaukee, they NEEDED him to score like he did. Here, we don't need him to. It would be nice for him to average 20 a game, but then again, I think our team will be at it's apex when NOBODY is averaging 20, but we have a bunch averaging 15-19 points a game.

[draft87]

You can tell he's not comfortable out there. He needs the ball in his hands. He's turning into a spot up shooter when he's with the starting unit and we need him to be much more than that.

- Does Pop need to call and iso or two just for him to see if we can get him going?
- Should we move him to the bench and let him handle the rock more often in that role?
- Do we just let him be a spot up shooter and live with whatever he can give us?
- Is it too early to worry about this?

This is not a knock on RJ. I'm just interested in what you all think...


I agree with your concern and with most of the responses.

1) Is it too early to worry? Yes

2) Does that mean we shouldn't be proactive? No.



I started a thread titled "2010 Offense"
It has a link to a spreadsheet I did predicting rotations and stats.
The reason I did this is because I feel like some other members have stated: too many stars.

There's something to be said for dudes that can put up 5-12 ppg and NOT need the ball in their hands to get a rhythm and play their role. I love our current roster and I've been looking forward to the season since we started making transactions.

However, I'm also wondering how we're gonna pull it off. From a team and fan perspective this is a level of talent that nobody is used to. We're gonna have to be comfortable with everybody's stats declining. We're gonna need faith that we can become a greater team on the court even though our #s look low on paper. The only thing that should be up on paper is the total score.

RJ didn't play a bad game tonight. It wasn't his best, and he definitely struggled in some areas, and on paper his shooting looks messy BUT he was involved in some great plays. His passing and defense were good. If RJ is ok with how he played. If Pop is, if the team is...and is comfortable knowing there will be times when he (has to) go to town, like against Dallas, then Pop won't have to do too much for RJ and his role.

Does RJ need a lot of touches to get comfortable? So far he has looked more comfortable with the ball more but this might just need adjusting. Look at his career-last year he took on a large offensive load in Milwaukee being that Michael Redd and Andrew Bogut missed significant time. New Jersey was slowly decaying into an offense so poor he NEEDED to drop 26 for them to get to 80. Actually they went back and forth on that-sometimes scoring a lot sometimes in a drought. But as time went on and KMart and Kidd left, Carter went in an out of injury, RJ learned to put matters in his own hands. He's been creating plays for himself for a while now. There were the days when he could count on JKidd to do that for him and I think he can tap back into that mentality and fit in with the Big 3,4, or 5.

Take a peek at my predictions. I'm not saying I'm totally right or I'm a prophet, I mean it only for an aid thinking things through. I don't have anyone averaging more than 17ppg and the role players average 1-8 ppg yet the average total score is 119. That's huge. Look at tonight- 118 total points and on paper it looks like RJ had a rough game, Manu was gone so we must be screwed, George/Bogans couldn't throw it in the ocean. That was not the case. If everyone was on their "A" game every game we'd be scoring 160 points a night. That's just not gonna happen.

The question should be this: "Who's gonna NOT score if we give RJ a bigger role?"

RJs size, athleticism, IQ, and defense will probably benefit the starting lineup. I think the name of the starting SG will also determine whether or not RJ remains a starter. Pulling him pretty much means that Manu would have to start. Their role as 2nd unit playmaker would pretty much be redundant. I do not think that either Manu will be healthy or starting. I hope to God he's healthy so let's just assume what's most likely-he'll be our star 6th man. I'm ok with pulling RJ when Manu comes in AND making the switch early. I like Bogans starting at 2. Even though he's a bit undersized I like him guarding 3s when Manu comes in. The substitution in skill set works with Bogans swinging from 2-3. Then I like RJ being the segue from Manu eventually running the 2nd unit to taking a break. RJ looked great with Hill, Mason, Blair, and Finley.

RJ looks motivated. He's a team player and he wants to win. He values the tough, positive attitude that Hill has captured and Pop is going to count on the rest of the season. I think he'll end up contributing much more than points(defense, hustle, IQ) to this team and we'll look back and think it a bit silly wondering how to get him to score 25ppg.

[Chieflion]

Jefferson's problem is now within himself. He is not getting any plays run for him and is driving on mostly broken plays, which is not something you want to see out of Pop's system. Now, Jefferson is just big three insurance. He will be called upon to take on the scoring load when someone is injured. I am starting to think he was only traded for because he is a rare player who can play all 82 games for a season.

[TJastal]

We're not even close to having set rotations yet. When everyone is healthy and playing normal minutes, Pop will start mixing and matching and working out combos to be on the floor together.

Wee......


Hello another 10 game slump.

:lol

[TJastal]

I like RJ in the starting unit for his toughness, defense, and rebounding alone and I believe Parker and Duncan will figure out some ways to get him some easy scoring opportunities just like they've done for each other over the years.

If nothing else, Pop should call a play or two for him in the 1st quarter to try to get him involved. Either a clear-out or deep post up, anything that results in a high% shot.

[Spurs Brazil]

The main problem with RJ right now is lack of spacing when he's on the court with Duncan. It's difficult for him to post up when Duncan is also down low. Plus his driving lanes aren't as open with TD on the court. Add in the fact that RJ isn't a very good pick-and-roll player at this point and it has him struggling to spread his wings.

I think Pop noticed that yesterday too. RJ was with the team who played the 4th with TD on the bench. Maybe Pop will sub RJ earlier and put him back when TD sit. But they’ll need to address this for the long run, since RJ and TD will be together to finish games.

I think some blame needs to go to RJ too. He needs to be more aggressive cutting the lane and attacking. Right now he’s only waiting the ball on the corners.

The good thing is his D is improving, man to man and also team D. He’s much better than the first 2 weeks of the season

[TwoHandJam]

What's happening to RJ used to happen to Manu as well when he was in the starting lineup. Parker and Duncan would often dominate the ball and he would turn into a spot up shooter. I agree that Pop needs to work on having RJ become more than just a 3 point threat but I do recognize that Tim down low affects his ability to slash just as it did for Manu.

RJ can not only slash but also post up and finish the break. It still bothers me to see Parker often start and finish his own fast break (sometimes driving into defenders looking for contact) when he has a player now that can finish with a high percentage dunk.

It might be a good idea to leave RJ on when Tim checks out and let him play with the reserves a bit. He seemed to have good synergy with Manu and Hill when both Tim and Tony were out - also Tim wouldn't be down low to affect his game.

[mingus]

RJ is not knocking down his jumpers (esp. the three) and teams obviously have scouting reports on that. defenders are giving him that shot and stepping back to make it harder for him to drive.

one of the main things that makes players successful on this team, and in this system, is the ability to knock down the open three. tons of players have come through here and done just that on offense: S-Jax, Brent Barry, Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson, etc. it's a neccessity when the offense goes through either Manu, Parker, or Timmy 90% of the time and you're getting open looks. McDyess is really starting to shine in this system because he's doing that.

BUT, i would like to see him in the post more (Pop talked about this in the beginning). he needs to get easy baskets tog et confidence.

[nuclearfm]

Trade him for T-mac straight up. If T-mac returns to 50% form, it'll be worth it.

[Bukefal]

I think the problem is actually with Parker.

Based on what? That's bullshit. Really, I dont get the Parker bashing all the time. Like Jag said, it really is getting irritating.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

Based on what? That's bullshit. Really, I dont get the Parker bashing all the time. Like Jag said, it really is getting irritating.

based on pop's system drive and kick, TP drives and kicks and RJ shoots the three unless he can drive the lane sucessfully which he has yet able to do

[Johnson]

15 mil is way too much for what they are using him for now. He should have more plays for him, and be more of a primary scoring option.

[spursncowboys]

No body will pay for Jeff's contract-so he will be a Spurs player. I think he is making great passes and not clogging the lane slashing all the time. Staying out on the arc is perfect for him. I like his playing and think he should have more plays devoted toward him. Having him as a second option in the second string. IMO the best chemistry on the team is with Manu and Jeff.

[DJB]

There was a thread a week ago about how RJ can't play with TP and I feel that that is beginning to look like it's true.

[ducks]

15 mil is way too much for what they are using him for now. He should have more plays for him, and be more of a primary scoring option.

they paid steve smith over 10 milion to sit on the bench and tell tp to bend his knees to shoot.:rollin

[UnWantedTheory]

Your wearing blinders. Come back to this thread after game 40. If you wanna see a retard, look in the mirror.

:idiot:jack

[da_suns_fan]

The Spurs continue to be at the bottom of the league in terms of pace. THere are only so many shots in a game and the number is decreased with a team that likes to walk it up the court like the Spurs.

Parker likes to run the one man fast break. Otherwise they run pick and rolls with TP and Duncan a lot.

Jefferson would thrive in a wide open offense like the Suns. The Spurs are too structured to make use of his talents in the open floor.

Thats my opinion, anyway.

[Fabbs]

None of this was foreseen by the great Lord Poppycock?

70 million contract and all of training camp.
The Stand n Veg offense is soo tired.

I just hope the same lame excuses aren't being used come playoff time.

[Dice]

The main problem with RJ right now is lack of spacing when he's on the court with Duncan. It's difficult for him to post up when Duncan is also down low. Plus his driving lanes aren't as open with TD on the court. Add in the fact that RJ isn't a very good pick-and-roll player at this point and it has him struggling to spread his wings.

I think Pop needs to call more plays for RJ to get him going early. Running more often will help. Duncan also needs to figure out what RJ likes to do and go to the high post more often.


All of this is true. Jefferson had no problem creating and scoring when Tony and Tim were out. I'd like to see him not some much one on one but in isolation pick and roles with Tim or McDyess.

And I totally agree with the idea of getting him the ball on the break. The guy can get over the defense and get fouled.

Anyone that's been watching all the games can see that this team is just now starting to come together. There were a lot of botched plays on offense that would have led to easy baskets. I look at those as a positive. I feel like the team just needs more time together to really get a good feel for each other. I also think they're going to improve with each upcoming game and expect them to go on a series of wins to end up with a really nice season record mostly due to how well the guys on the bench contribute.

[ElNono]

I personally think our offense needs to change a bit to integrate RJ. How about designing or calling a few plays for him while he's out there? Like the one Pop calls for Finley with the J off the screen? Or Manu with the high pick?
If we're running pick and roll on the low post to death, unfortunately he's not going to have much impact at all, outside of being a spot up shooter.
I think the whole 'Duncan clogs the lane' argument is pretty retarded. Spacing is an issue if we're running pick and roll, but there's no reason why Duncan can't step out to the high post for a play or two if necessary. We do it all the time when we call plays for Manu to drive. Obviously, Manu plays the high post pick a roll a lot better than RJ, but TD is not the reason why.

I just don't think the Spurs really are spending $15 million for a spot up shooter. I mean, we already have plenty of those that make a lot less and score at a higher clip.
I trust Pop will figure it out sooner than later. I think we could be an offensive juggernaut if we manage to consistently get 15-20 from RJ every night.

[quentin_compson]

I agree that it would be a good idea to run some plays for RJ, especially early on in the game to get him going. Last night against the small-ball Warriors he didn't post up once, if I remember correctly.

We don't want to make the same mistake as the Mavs, who have Jason Kidd but use him primarily as a spot-up shooter way too often. I also trust in Pop to figure that out and adjust our offense to having a player like RJ.

[aquiet20&10]

Trade him for T-mac straight up. If T-mac returns to 50% form, it'll be worth it.

nah, if you think RJ needs the ball in his hands, imagine having T-Mac. he'd only be able to operate in iso situations, which would severely hurt the team if he isnt able to capitalize on those plays. which he probably wont be able to anymore since he seems like a broken player.

i think that RJ will be fine, he just needs to find his niche. he'd be much more effective in an uptempo offense, which obviously we don't have. call me crazy or retarded, but maybe pop should try moving him to the bench and put finley in the starting lineup. now i know finley has taken a step back in nearly every facet of his game besides shooting, but you could just give him his usual 15-20 mins a game. with RJ coming off the bench playing starter's minutes, you have an explosive 2nd unit (not that our bench hasnt already proved itself to be formidable) with Hill, Manu (when he comes back), RJ, Dejuan, and Dice or Bonner (depending on who pop feels like starting that day). that could be a lineup that could cause all sorts of problems for other teams. our starting lineup will still pack sufficient scoring punch with Tony, Bogans, Finley, Tim, and Dice/Bonner. It'd probably be best if Bonner started, that way you surround Tim with 2 perimeter shooters and 2 slashers (balanced offense that'd make for good spacing).

[Ibanezsr]

The Spurs continue to be at the bottom of the league in terms of pace. THere are only so many shots in a game and the number is decreased with a team that likes to walk it up the court like the Spurs.

Parker likes to run the one man fast break. Otherwise they run pick and rolls with TP and Duncan a lot.

Jefferson would thrive in a wide open offense like the Suns. The Spurs are too structured to make use of his talents in the open floor.

Thats my opinion, anyway.


Suns fans are delusional.... Spurs are in the top 10 in scoring and average 80.5 shots a game. Suns average 82.3 shots a game. Suns are averaging less than 2 shots more than SA. That's not much to even mention. SA has scored 112 pts or more in 5 of their 13 games. They average more points than the Lakers right now... RJ is the 3rd leading scorer on the team and averages 1.37 PPS. That is tied for 2nd on the team with Duncan (That is more than Parker's 1.30). He is also averaging 4.8 rebs (4th on team), 3.1 assists (4th on team) and doesn't turn the ball over much.... And his defense is vastly improving. I think he is fitting in fine for someone who is trying to learn a new offensive and defensive system... He just needs time... I also agree that it wouldn't hurt to divide his time out between playing with starters and reserves...

[duhoh]

Your wearing blinders. Come back to this thread after game 40. If you wanna see a retard, look in the mirror.

you really want a chucker? i do not ever want to see a chucker in a spurs uniform.

:bang

[Dice]

If we're running pick and roll on the low post to death, unfortunately he's not going to have much impact at all, outside of being a spot up shooter.
I think the whole 'Duncan clogs the lane' argument is pretty retarded. Spacing is an issue if we're running pick and roll, but there's no reason why Duncan can't step out to the high post for a play or two if necessary. We do it all the time when we call plays for Manu to drive. Obviously, Manu plays the high post pick a roll a lot better than RJ, but TD is not the reason why.

.

Duncan, when not involved in the play, isn't likely to wander much further than halfway down the outside of the lane. At max, he'll pull out to the high post at the free throw line. This keeps his defender hoovering in the lane. Also, if Tim is in the lane when a guy starts in, he's not as likely to back out and spot up for a midrange shot.

Is that necessarily bad? No.He's an extremly effective player doing what he does. But it is if you're looking to give Jefferson more room to operate when driving in. He was effective with it when Tim was out because Mcdyess will a lot of times act as a swing man, passing the ball from the top of the key or even the three point line.

I'd like to keep going with Tim as the go-to guy when we want to isolate and go one on one. But when he's out of the game, Jefferson ought to be the Spurs next option if they're not running a team play.

[ElNono]

Duncan, when not involved in the play, isn't likely to wander much further than halfway down the outside of the lane. At max, he'll pull out to the high post at the free throw line. This keeps his defender hoovering in the lane. Also, if Tim is in the lane when a guy starts in, he's not as likely to back out and spot up for a midrange shot.

I'm sorry, I guess what I wrote didn't quite come out right. What I mean is that Duncan being there doesn't mean you can't run a few plays for RJ where Duncan steps to the high post to set a pick for him, etc. We do that all the time at the end of games when Manu, Tony and Tim are all playing out there.
There's no reason we couldn't do the same thing for a couple of plays to get RJ going. I hope it's a little more clear now.

[raspsa]

Its still November. Relax.

[mytespurs]

The main problem with RJ right now is lack of spacing when he's on the court with Duncan. It's difficult for him to post up when Duncan is also down low. Plus his driving lanes aren't as open with TD on the court. Add in the fact that RJ isn't a very good pick-and-roll player at this point and it has him struggling to spread his wings.

I think Pop needs to call more plays for RJ to get him going early. Running more often will help. Duncan also needs to figure out what RJ likes to do and go to the high post more often.

It's a work in progress but I don't think it's time to worry. If the same issues are around come Christmas, then it may be time for more drastic efforts.

And Christmas is almost less than a month away. :hat

[Leetonidas]

Trade him for T-mac straight up. If T-mac returns to 50% form, it'll be worth it.

I'd do it. :lmao

Hell, I wanna say move him to the bench, but if so, who starts in his place? Do the Spurs try to get away with Bogans and Mason in the starting lineup? Perhaps start Hill/Parker/Bogans when Manu comes back and have him sub in for Hill?

I think there's a lot of combinations the Spurs can try, so we're probably gonna see a lot of crazy lineups this year.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Whats happen when they run him off screens? Is he a good quick release shooter like Rip?

I havent seen him play for a long time.

[Chieflion]

Whats happen when they run him off screens? Is he a good quick release shooter like Rip?

I havent seen him play for a long time.
Way too slow of a release to be considered Richard Hamilton like. Throughout these few games, he has not made any off-ball movement that comes off screens and is usually standing in the corner. I wish sometimes Pop would call a play for RJ, just one.

[SpurNation]

RJ made a decision to join the Spurs for the hopes of playing for a contender. I'm not sure what the conversation was during those negotiations, but I would suspect it was made clear about what his role would entail prior to making his decision to join the Spurs.

I'm sure there is, if not already planned, to get Jefferson into the offensive scheme that better utelizes his abilities. In fact we've seen glimpses of what is to come when RJ is used in a different manner. As of right now we are seeing what the team is doing to get all the players acclimated which isn't going to showcase just RJ's talents at this point.

What to do with RJ?

Leave it as is until later when the team starts getting a better chemistry with a set rotation. I'm sure his strengths will be used appropriately and at the right moments when that starts to happen.

[Leetonidas]

RJ made a decision to join the Spurs for the hopes of playing for a contender. I'm not sure what the conversation was during those negotiations, but I would suspect it was made clear about what his role would entail prior to making his decision to join the Spurs.

I'm sure there is, if not already planned, to get Jefferson into the offensive scheme that better utelizes his abilities. In fact we've seen glimpses of what is to come when RJ is used in a different manner. As of right now we are seeing what the team is doing to get all the players acclimated which isn't going to showcase just RJ's talents at this point.

What to do with RJ?

Leave it as is until later when the team starts getting a better chemistry with a set rotation. I'm sure his strengths will be used appropriately and at the right moments when that starts to happen.

What the fuck are you talking about? RJ never made the decision to come here, he was not a free agent. The Spurs traded Thomas, Bowen, and Oberto for him. He had no say in the matter.

[Xevious]

Whats happen when they run him off screens? Is he a good quick release shooter like Rip?

I havent seen him play for a long time.
RJ is not a high percentage, or quick release, shooter off the dribble. He can spot up for a decent percentage, but is best used as a driver/slasher.

They have run that same play for RJ twice (that I've seen) now, where RJ passes off to Duncan who throws a pass back to the rim for RJ. It has led to a dunk once and a trip to the line the other time. They need to run more plays like that early on to get him established.

[SpurNation]

What the fuck are you talking about? RJ never made the decision to come here, he was not a free agent. The Spurs traded Thomas, Bowen, and Oberto for him. He had no say in the matter.

Techically yes. Behind the scenes there is often discussion with players involved before the deal is done. I would suspect RJ was addressed before the deal was made as well as Bowen and the rest.

I could be wrong since I wasn't there. But I know it often happens in those types of trades.

Back to what to do with RJ. IMO...Just let it play itself out and I don't think there should be that big of a concern at this moment.

[z0sa]

Too many people focusing on his contract. People, use your brains: RJ will never "earn" 15.1 million a year, even if he is the #1 option on a team. He's overpaid, and on this team, by a large margin. Just accept it so we can move on.

RJ does however need more plays called for him. Both Tim and Tony should be making a conscious effort to get RJ involved, even deferring to him on some plays. I think it will just be more time to build chemistry. Sadly, whatever chemistry is being built now could be shaken at the foundations by Manu's imminent return.

[senorglory]

based on pop's system drive and kick, TP drives and kicks and RJ shoots the three unless he can drive the lane sucessfully which he has yet able to do

As one example of a successful RJ drive, please see signature of SpursRulez4eVeR.

[dbestpro]

More screen and rolls, less drive and kick.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Too many people focusing on his contract. People, use your brains: RJ will never "earn" 15.1 million a year, even if he is the #1 option on a team. He's overpaid, and on this team, by a large margin. Just accept it so we can move on.

RJ does however need more plays called for him. Both Tim and Tony should be making a conscious effort to get RJ involved, even deferring to him on some plays. I think it will just be more time to build chemistry. Sadly, whatever chemistry is being built now could be shaken at the foundations by Manu's imminent return.

A+ post. If you can't get over RJ's contract he will most likely never satisfy you.

[AFBlue]

His lagging performance is currently not satisfying...regardless of a $15M contract. He's not hitting his long 2s or 3s with consistency and hasn't been finishing around the cup off his dribble drives. He's just not producing.

Obviously for him to be an effective player (again regardless of contract size), he'll have turn that around.

[ElNono]

Another game where RJ picks up the scraps of whatever is left after Tony and Timmy are options 1 and 2 out there. At least he made a fairly good play at the end and hit the clutch free throws.

[murpjf88]

Another game where RJ picks up the scraps of whatever is left after Tony and Timmy are options 1 and 2 out there. At least he made a fairly good play at the end and hit the clutch free throws.

No need to run plays for RJ until he learns to knock down a shot.

[ElNono]

No need to run plays for RJ until he learns to knock down a shot.

What do you mean? The guy a is a career 47% shooter. He's probably one of the players with the best jump shots we have. We're just not looking for him.
I also think he's a rhythm guy, not the instant-offense kind.

[peskypesky]

to me, it's on Pop. he's the coach. he's supposed to find a way to get the most out of his players. believe me, if RJ was on the Lakers, he wouldn't be so unproductive.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

parker ignores him within the set spurs offense this is fact, especially when the going gets tough.

he never hesitates to dish it to bonner behind the line, or even the chosen son.

I think alot of it is parker gets pissed that RJ is not often in spots that are dish-worthy within our offense. I think time will fix this. But RJ also seems to have zero ability to get to the lane and the free throw line in our offense.

I'm not freaking out about it yet but his inefficiency on offense is costing us so far

[ElNono]

I can only guess Pop is waiting for Manu to come back and see if RJ connects better with him.

[Parker2112]

We need to run him isolated on the post more...clear out one side of the floor and let him go to work.

Also TD is usually consuming the middle of the floor, making it hard for RJ to get to the bucket. For whatever reason, Tim always seems to be between RJ and the rim. I think Pop is the culprit...and the cure.

[lennyalderette]

this is what it comes down to. yes jefferson is not being aggressive enough, once he does he will do great, but yea on the ther hand i've seen plenty of fast breaks with parker and jefferson, and parker cant throw an alley-oop pop knows rj gets plenty of points this way so im guessing he not opposed to it especially when t.p ends up screwing up the fast break so i can see both sides of the argument. and if you watch our fastbreaks rj is yelling for one and tony isnt comfortable with it

[lennyalderette]

oh and like i said before start manu, and have rj off the bench and this will force rj to be aggressive.

[Allanon]

oh and like i said before start manu, and have rj off the bench and this will force rj to be aggressive.

If Manu's healthy enough to play with the Starters, I think this is the best Spurs option aside from playing both off the bench. But having them both off the bench is letting $24 million sit on your bench in just two guys.

RJ+Parker isn't an effective combination....always seems like an either/or with them two. If one goes off, the other stands around and watches.

[Creation88]

he's absolutely horrible right now on both ends.

he can't create a shot and doesn't drive. he's only been aggressive one game all season and that was against the Raptors (i believe) when we were without Tim and Tony.

he cannot play with Tim. he just stands around like a doofus. he needs to play on the 2nd team with the quick guys like Manu, Hill, and Mason.

[ElNono]

If Manu's healthy enough to play with the Starters, I think this is the best Spurs option aside from playing both off the bench. But having them both off the bench is letting $24 million sit on your bench in just two guys.

If it wins us games, who really cares?

[Blackjack]

So did RJ switch teams or sports?:wow

He just looked absolutely lost out there tonight and seeing Tony call him out for being in the wrong spot on offense and almost causing a turnover by bringing his defender into the picture was pretty eye-opening..

It's been my belief all along that Manu would be the 6th-Man for pretty much the remainder of his career, but I'd be lying if I didn't think RJ and him switching spots wasn't a pretty decent idea; RJ's acquisition has never made that much basketball-sense to me, given his skill set, but I couldn't knock the actual trade or player because there's no doubt it was a good trade and that RJ's a good player; even if overpaid..

The small-forward in this offense works best as a spot-up shooter; it's why I thought a 2-guard like Carter was a better option, fit-wise. You play him alongside a guy like Bogans and you get a much better dynamic.

Paying a true small-forward in RJ that type of money and still having to play a guy like Bogans beside him to guard the best player, just doesn't make all that much sense.

What's done is done, though, and you've got to find a way to make lemonade.

I'd suggest, if Manu's healthy, they bring him off the bench where he could have a little more success exploiting the oppositions second unit, play a little small ball early with him at the 4 to get him out in the open court, play the two-man game with Tim and RJ while keeping your spot-up shooters on the floor, stress the importance of advancing the ball through the pass to initiate the break, and see if by the end of the game he's found a little more rhythm and confidence within the scheme.

If none of that works, the acquisition of a live chicken might be necessary..

[Chieflion]

After watching the Rockets game, it confirmed my thoughts on why RJ is not getting the touches he needs. Pop plays our 5 starters, you know who they are, they started 4 consecutive games, resulting in all wins. No complaints from Spurs fans there.

Now, here is the problem with the offense. Duncan and Parker play their two man game on the right side of the basketball court. Usually, it results in a positive result for the Spurs but no points for RJ. Jefferson usually is on the other side of the court. The only way he receives the ball from Parker directly, is when a cross-court pass is thrown. A cross-court pass is usually an ill-advised pass so Parker does not pass that often. One of those pssses result in a turnover. Jefferson does not get the ball in this set play.

The next play would be 4 down. Again, Jefferson stands in the corner. Not a good way to get some of his points. Duncan scores himself or swings the ball. Jefferson would be sealed up immediately when he gets the ball, he swings it. Therefore getting no shots.

Broken plays. This is where RJ is the most effective. Usually he attacks the paint with aggression resulting in free throws. Otherwise, he only takes jump shots in other set plays.

Jefferson's strengths like cutting to the lane is not being utilised to its fullest extent. These plays were usually ran with Bowen who is not a scorer. Bogans should be the one standing in the corner, not Jefferson. It may be better. Jefferson's passive attitude towards the game when Parker and Duncan is on the floor is not gaining him much sympathy anyway.

[HarlemHeat37]

You would think he would have some isolation-type of plays when he's being guarded by Jason Kapono, one of the worst defensive players to ever play..he had the ball against him on the wing, beat him, but was roadblocked by Dalembert due to Duncan being on the same side..

give the guy some isolation plays..

When you have a 4th guy that has all-star level talent, you exploit mismatches involving him..Jefferson being guarded by Kapono is a significant mismatch..hopefully we'll see some plays for him in the 2nd half, and we'll see how RJ responds..maybe he'll fail, but he has to get plays like that when he's being guarded by scrubs..

[ducks]

rj got started early tonight
lets see what he does all night

[Creation88]

he's gone invisible again

[ducks]

he had 5 points before tp took a shot
first 3 minutes of the game
tp had 3 shots
spurs tried to get him going early

[BillMc]

vrj has a lot of talent, as he showed when tony and tim were out of the lineup. He can drive..he can create...have you even watched the spurs this year? When put with the right lineup, and the right offensive strategy, he does a lot of good things for this team on offense. He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do.

+1

[murpjf88]

RJ has a lot of talent, as he showed when Tony and Tim were out of the lineup. He CAN drive..he CAN create...have you even watched the Spurs this year? When put with the right lineup, and the right offensive strategy, he does a lot of good things for this team on offense. He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do.

-1

That's funny, bogans, blair, and dice don't seem to be struggling to find a flow in a new system. I guess it is easy for some.

[pjjrfan]

He stands around too much, and when he gets the ball he looks to get it out qucikly. I don't think he is even looking for his shot. And he still looks like a rookie out there. I didn't see anyone running any plays for Blair and he came in and made things happen. the money is an issue, he's the second highest paid player out there and more times than not he is totally useless. He can defend, rebound, set screen, but all he seems to do is get in the way. I gotta hope he is going to snap out of whatever is ailing him.

[kbrury]

-1

That's funny, bogans, blair, and dice don't seem to be struggling to find a flow in a new system. I guess it is easy for some.

Really you don't think they have had thier fair share of bad games? Bogans was what shooting today? Blair fouls how much? Dice has only really started to play like what was expected for the last few games.

-100

[kbrury]

He stands around too much, and when he gets the ball he looks to get it out qucikly. I don't think he is even looking for his shot. And he still looks like a rookie out there. I didn't see anyone running any plays for Blair and he came in and made things happen. the money is an issue, he's the second highest paid player out there and more times than not he is totally useless. He can defend, rebound, set screen, but all he seems to do is get in the way. I gotta hope he is going to snap out of whatever is ailing him.

I actually think he is told to stand out on the perimeter so he can hit the threes hes just never really been open to do that. I think Pop is going to have to run some plays for him or play him less with TD and TP and more with the bench players.

[Brazil]

I think in this particular the whole team tried to get him involved from tp to tim. Tp took an unusual low level of shots but he is damn passive I don't get it.

I'm all to give him time but 2 reb in 35 for a 6'7 guy is not enough.

[vander]

we know what duncan can do with the ball, why are we wasting the regular season running the offense through him so much, run the offense through RJ, Mason, Hill etc, then come playoff time cut out the less successful offenses

we aren't going to win shit relying solely on TD and Parker running the offense, we need to develop all possible other options, #1 being RJ

[ducks]

yeah because rj has won how many titles with the number one option

[ducks]

we know what duncan can do with the ball, why are we wasting the regular season running the offense through him so much, run the offense through rj, mason, hill etc, then come playoff time cut out the less successful offenses

we aren't going to win shit relying solely on td and parker running the offense, we need to develop all possible other options, #1 being rj

spurs players tried to get rj going early tonight

[murpjf88]

Really you don't think they have had thier fair share of bad games? Bogans was what shooting today? Blair fouls how much? Dice has only really started to play like what was expected for the last few games.

-100.

Either your blind or just stupid, I was responding to spurs fan when he said " He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do." What does that have to do with having a bad game.

But now that you mention it, your right, I expect a little more from the second highest paid player on the floor. For 15 million dollars, he shouldn't be the 5th or 6th best player (I'm being very kind when I say 5th or 6th) on the team.

[murpjf88]

.

Either your blind or just stupid, I was responding to spursfan when he said " He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do." What does that have to do with having a bad game.

But now that you mention it, your right, I expect a little more from the second highest paid player on the floor. For 15 million dollars, he shouldn't be the 5th or 6th best player (I'm being very kind when I say 5th or 6th) on the team.

[ducks]

.

Either your blind or just stupid, I was responding to spurs fan when he said " He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do." What does that have to do with having a bad game.

But now that you mention it, your right, I expect a little more from the second highest paid player on the floor. For 15 million dollars, he shouldn't be the 5th or 6th best player (I'm being very kind when I say 5th or 6th) on the team.

why does it matter how much he is paid
he is a pro
he should play well
any player that signs a 3-6 year contract should play well
even if they only make 3 million a year

[kbrury]

.

Either your blind or just stupid, I was responding to spurs fan when he said " He just has to find his flow in our system...and that's not easy for anyone to do." What does that have to do with having a bad game.

But now that you mention it, your right, I expect a little more from the second highest paid player on the floor. For 15 million dollars, he shouldn't be the 5th or 6th best player (I'm being very kind when I say 5th or 6th) on the team.

So your saying flow has nothing to do with bad games?

[murpjf88]

So your saying flow has nothing to do with bad games?

Flow plays a part. Dice, bogans, and blair seem to be flowing just fine. RJ is completely lost out there.

[EricB]

So because new jersey fucked up giving him big money he's a flop? Spurs fan iz awesome

[HarlemHeat37]

McDyess is a spot-up shooter, he fits in the scheme..

Bogans is a spot-up shooter as well..even with that being the case, his offense has been inconsistent..

Blair has a different role, he hasn't had much success in creating his own offense this year..tonight was his only significant game so far IIRC..

RJ isn't a spot-up shooter..he has to have plays ran for him to be effective, he has the talent that warrants having the ball in his hands..it's much different than role players having to adjust..

[td4mvp21]

You have to give him time. You can tell he's having a hard time fitting in. Can you blame him? We have three players who need a lot shots. Our role players this year can produce. It seems like sometimes there aren't enough shots to go around on this team. Hopefully he'll find his niche soon.

[HarlemHeat37]

Enough with the $ btw..if RJ was worth the $ he's making, we wouldn't have been able to acquire him..the majority of NBA players on big contracts don't play up to the amount of their contracts..

[td4mvp21]

McDyess is a spot-up shooter, he fits in the scheme..

Bogans is a spot-up shooter as well..even with that being the case, his offense has been inconsistent..

Blair has a different role, he hasn't had much success in creating his own offense this year..tonight was his only significant game so far IIRC..

RJ isn't a spot-up shooter..he has to have plays ran for him to be effective, he has the talent that warrants having the ball in his hands..it's much different than role players having to adjust..

You said it better than I did :lol :tu

[murpjf88]

McDyess is a spot-up shooter, he fits in the scheme..

Bogans is a spot-up shooter as well..even with that being the case, his offense has been inconsistent..

Blair has a different role, he hasn't had much success in creating his own offense this year..tonight was his only significant game so far IIRC..

RJ isn't a spot-up shooter..he has to have plays ran for him to be effective, he has the talent that warrants having the ball in his hands..it's much different than role players having to adjust..

That may be true, but as far as I'm concerned, RJ is a role player. His contract may not warrant that, but the team still revolves around TD, TP, and Manu ( when healthy). RJ is at best, the 4th option when he's sharing the floor.

[gospursgojas]

Do the "you have to give him time" excuses enda after 20 games?

30?

50?

[ducks]

usually almost a year

[HarlemHeat37]

What do you guys want him to do though?..

He's not a good spot-up shooter and he's not good at consistently beating his opponents off the dribble when he's at the top of the key..those are the 2 ways he's being used when Duncan and Parker are on the floor..you can't play at a high level when you're playing a game you aren't accustomed to..

It's not even on Tony or Tim, it's on Pop..

When Jason Kapono is covering RJ and we go through a dry stretch, RJ should get SOME isolation plays..he got NONE while Kapono was covering him, and Kapono is one of the worst defenders in the NBA..

[bigbendbruisebrother]

It's not even on Tony or Tim, it's on Pop..

When Jason Kapono is covering RJ and we go through a dry stretch, RJ should get SOME isolation plays..he got NONE while Kapono was covering him, and Kapono is one of the worst defenders in the NBA..

That is the truest thing I've read all night.

[ElNono]

Maybe we need to go back and look at some old Nets and Bucks tape and see what plays worked for him. I think he was pretty good with his jumper coming off screens. I just don't know if there's really any interest on changing the offense a bit to make him fit in.
Today, the team in general tried to get him involved a little more, but everything looked a bit forced.

[Blackjack]

If you go back to his Nets days, you'd find that a lot of what he excelled at, at least when they were at their best, involved the Princeton offense and getting out on the break.

There's no reason, given time, that this motion offense couldn't give him a lot of the same backdoor cuts and duck-ins in the half court with Tim playing at the high post. And the defensive rebounding is there to ignite the break, if they'd just emphasize it and have Tony and others realize that advancing the ball via the pass results in a better break most of the time; get that outlet to the wing, asap.

Plays where RJ uses Tim to rub his man off and receive the pass for a shot behind the screen, he's actually pretty good at. Hitting him in stride off a curl going to the basket is also something they should be looking to do more of; one of his biggest assets is his ability to get to the line, but you negate that ability to a large degree when you're playing half court basketball with Tony and Tim, rightly, dominating the ball.

By the time RJ gets the ball from Tony, the paints already been penetrated and the defense is sagging in the paint. You throw the attention that Duncan receives into the equation, and RJ's looking at a wall of defenders in the way of his penetration.

The offense has been made to run the way it does because of Tony's unique skill set. If you've got Tony and Tim living in the paint, seems to reason that the natural compliments would be floor-spacers.

A lineup like: Hill, Bogans, Jefferson, Bonner, and Duncan could probably feature RJ successfully a little more.

It doesn't have to be that exact lineup necessarily, but I like the spacing you get in both the back and front court and the potential interior passing from Tim and RJ; I've seen some promising glimpses from the two.

My two-cents..

[mosdef17]

To be fair, Blair will probably have one of the easier times fitting in because unlike the 'spot up shooters' he does not require the ball to be passed to him at all. He is the kind of player that will hustle his way into impacting a game. This is something we have needed for some time. On defense he used to look a little more lost then he does now, but offensively a guy like that will nearly always slot in and impact right away.

[senorglory]

Do the "you have to give him time" excuses enda after 20 games?

30?

50?

Somewhere between 50 and 82.

[mingus]

this team has the potential to have around six guys averaging double figures (TP, TD, Manu, RJ, McDyess, Hill, and Blair and maybe even Mason depending if he's hot that night).

they need to have movement w/o the ball. too many times TP or TD have the ball and everyone else watches. hopefully over time this will happen.

[z0sa]

I'm honestly not seeing a problem. It will take time, period, and Manu/Tony jumping in and out of the lineup has made things harder.

[Spurs Brazil]

If you go back to his Nets days, you'd find that a lot of what he excelled at, at least when they were at their best, involved the Princeton offense and getting out on the break.

There's no reason, given time, that this motion offense couldn't give him a lot of the same backdoor cuts and duck-ins in the half court with Tim playing at the high post. And the defensive rebounding is there to ignite the break, if they'd just emphasize it and have Tony and others realize that advancing the ball via the pass results in a better break most of the time; get that outlet to the wing, asap.

Plays where RJ uses Tim to rub his man off and receive the pass for a shot behind the screen, he's actually pretty good at. Hitting him in stride off a curl going to the basket is also something they should be looking to do more of; one of his biggest assets is his ability to get to the line, but you negate that ability to a large degree when you're playing half court basketball with Tony and Tim, rightly, dominating the ball.

By the time RJ gets the ball from Tony, the paints already been penetrated and the defense is sagging in the paint. You throw the attention that Duncan receives into the equation, and RJ's looking at a wall of defenders in the way of his penetration.

The offense has been made to run the way it does because of Tony's unique skill set. If you've got Tony and Tim living in the paint, seems to reason that the natural compliments would be floor-spacers.

A lineup like: Hill, Bogans, Jefferson, Bonner, and Duncan could probably feature RJ successfully a little more.

It doesn't have to be that exact lineup necessarily, but I like the spacing you get in both the back and front court and the potential interior passing from Tim and RJ; I've seen some promising glimpses from the two.

My two-cents..

Great post

I still think RJ should start but he must be on the court when TP or TD are resting

[DaBears]

As all might have eluted or have hinted at the for mentioned point that RJ seemd to just be standing around alot out there when he is on the floor.. Some has to do with his actions but also teammates need to look for him. i have watched games this season and it appears to TP doesnt even look his way, and Rj is wide open.. We all now Tp is no the greatest passer but come on it is his job to get them all involved in the game..

Times when i see RJ get the ball he is not in position and has to force the issue..

Chemistry is part of the problem but players on court & coaching staff need to get it together.. You can see on his facial expressions that he is fustrated and wants to help... Only time will tell.

[Ice009]

I think in this particular the whole team tried to get him involved from tp to tim. Tp took an unusual low level of shots but he is damn passive I don't get it.

I'm all to give him time but 2 reb in 35 for a 6'7 guy is not enough.

Didn't we say this a game or two ago?

Tim and Tony and both trying to get RJ involved pretty much every game, but RJ is the one that needs to step it up. TP and Tim shouldn't have to change their whole game just to get RJ involved.

He's going to have to stop being passive and find some aggression.

[Ice009]

What do you guys want him to do though?..

He's not a good spot-up shooter and he's not good at consistently beating his opponents off the dribble when he's at the top of the key..those are the 2 ways he's being used when Duncan and Parker are on the floor..you can't play at a high level when you're playing a game you aren't accustomed to..

It's not even on Tony or Tim, it's on Pop..

When Jason Kapono is covering RJ and we go through a dry stretch, RJ should get SOME isolation plays..he got NONE while Kapono was covering him, and Kapono is one of the worst defenders in the NBA..

Pretty good take. I actually thought that RJ could beat his man off the dribble. I didn't know his ball handing wasn't very good. I don't know why the Spurs traded for him if they were not going to use any of his strengths. We got him because he is overpaid, but still, wtf is the point of having him if he's going to stand around and do nothing. He's got to take some of it on himself and just turn up his aggression.

[The Truth #6]

I agree that he needs to start and playing with the second unit with Manu and Hill might do wonders for his game.

At the beginning of the season there was talk that the Spurs would run more. I know we have a high scoring offense, but I don't get the sense we are fast breaking very much at all or by any design. With Blair getting rebounds on the second unit, and with Hill applying defensive pressure on ball handlers, it seems to be a recipe for a fast breaking lineup, which RJ could thrive in assuming someone could run the break and get him the ball. Maybe Manu or Mason in that lineup?

[The Truth #6]

Blair, Bonner, RJ, Manu, and Hill could be an intriguing lineup.

Basically, I would go back to the tapes if I was in the coaching staff and see who he was playing with when he had his highest scoring games. Obviously, that was when key players were missing which made him more of the focus, but maybe there was some chemistry with the lineups he was a part of? Just an idea. Even if he won't ever be the focus for a whole game, perhaps he could become the focal point of the offense for stretches of games.

[The Truth #6]

The coaching staff often tries to make players into what they're not. Pop had the reins on Manu and Tony in the beginning of their careers and then eventually realized he was holding them back. We've tried to mold various players into some version of Bowen or Horry. Yes, RJ should play better defense but trying to make him into Bruce Bowen by standing in the corner and expecting him to shut down Kobe is sort of a silly approach.

[kbrury]

Blair, Bonner, RJ, Manu, and Hill could be an intriguing lineup.

Basically, I would go back to the tapes if I was in the coaching staff and see who he was playing with when he had his highest scoring games. Obviously, that was when key players were missing which made him more of the focus, but maybe there was some chemistry with the lineups he was a part of? Just an idea. Even if he won't ever be the focus for a whole game, perhaps he could become the focal point of the offense for stretches of games.

I don't how the roatation has been for the last few games but I always thought RJ could still start but he can play extended minutes from the start of the game. So when Duncan and Tony go out he can play with the bench then he goes to the bench when Duncan and Tony come back.

At the end of the games he will play with Duncan and Tony since he has a knack for drawing fouls.

IDK hopefully Pop is working it out as we speak.

[jdev82]

maybe he should starts moving around more and work harder to get to where he wants the ball EARLY... i always see him stand beyond the three point arc ...i mean i even see bogans slashes to the basket more times than RJ does ...

they need to post him, and do what milwaukee did. he was great in the mil. play him as the 2 option scorer when hes on the floor, left wing, half way up. down to duncan(bogut)to draw the double, and he can spot up, slash, or pull up. very effective on the left wing alongside a big.

[Blackjack]

The personnel is there for the Spurs to run more and utilize RJ's open-court ability, but it takes a commitment and emphasis from the coaching staff to get it done.

Plenty of players and teams say they'd like to run and they intend to do so, but you've got to walk the walk. The coaches have to accept some turnovers and mistakes, and the players have to be willing and in shape; it's a different type of cardio and mindset.

I mentioned earlier the need for the outlet pass and the advancement of the ball via the pass, but that's a crucial part of the equation. Watch someone like Kidd or Nash, to of the best over recent years, initiate the break. The heads up and that ball leaves their hand as soon as a target has been identified. Too often a player gets the ball, puts their head down and feels the need to dribble the ball 3/4's court until the obvious decision presents itself. You've just got to trust your teammate to make the right play.

This team is going to defensive rebound at an elite level, they've got more athleticism than they've had in years, they've got better personnel to force a decent amount of turnovers, and they've got one of the fastest point-guards in the league; the tools are there.

I'm not sure if it's just out of the question to be running a team with veterans at key spots hard at practice or not, but they could definitely use some practice/schooling on the proper running of a break. Their floor balance is just awkward at times.

[The Truth #6]

I don't how the roatation has been for the last few games but I always thought RJ could still start but he can play extended minutes from the start of the game. So when Duncan and Tony go out he can play with the bench then he goes to the bench when Duncan and Tony come back.

At the end of the games he will play with Duncan and Tony since he has a knack for drawing fouls.

IDK hopefully Pop is working it out as we speak.

I was agreeing with you completely.

[Solid D]

I'm all for Pop calling more "circle 3 elbow" for a dribble-drive or post-up.

I'm also all for TP pulling up on the break and actually looking for RJ running the wing for an alley-oop.

I'm all for Pop calling "Power" and seeing RJ curling off a nice baseline backscreen, catching a feed from Tim and hitting an easy jumper.

I'm also up for RJ driving baseline when he's run off the corner-3, drawing a crowd and then feeding Timmy crashing down the lane for the flush.

These should all become staples as options in the Spurs offense.

[Blackjack]

Solid D bustin' out the proper terminology and all..:lol

As long as they get him on the move heading towards the basket more and look for the quick-hitters (outlets, lobs, backdoors, duck-ins, dive-cuts, etc.) they'll be moving in the right direction.

The key for me with RJ: movement.

[The Truth #6]

The personnel is there for the Spurs to run more and utilize RJ's open-court ability, but it takes a commitment and emphasis from the coaching staff to get it done.

Plenty of players and teams say they'd like to run and they intend to do so, but you've got to walk the walk. The coaches have to accept some turnovers and mistakes, and the players have to be willing and in shape; it's a different type of cardio and mindset.

I mentioned earlier the need for the outlet pass and the advancement of the ball via the pass, but that's a crucial part of the equation. Watch someone like Kidd or Nash, to of the best over recent years, initiate the break. The heads up and that ball leaves their hand as soon as a target has been identified. Too often a player gets the ball, puts their head down and feels the need to dribble the ball 3/4's court until the obvious decision presents itself. You've just got to trust your teammate to make the right play.

This team is going to defensive rebound at an elite level, they've got more athleticism than they've had in years, they've got better personnel to force a decent amount of turnovers, and they've got one of the fastest point-guards in the league; the tools are there.

I'm not sure if it's just out of the question to be running a team with veterans at key spots hard at practice or not, but they could definitely use some practice/schooling on the proper running of a break. Their floor balance is just awkward at times.

I agree with this as well. Good points.

To follow up on some of your points, Pop probably doesn't have the temperament to embrace the mistakes that would come with this approach. But as it is, I don't think the team as a whole has a unified approach to begin with. The team has a Gemini quality of sorts between the first and second unit, with the first unit being more traditional by "running" the offense through Tim and Tony. The second unit has the potential for episodic outbreaks for spectacular plays as we saw with Blair and his rebounds and blocks. There is an interesting level of chaos already imbedded in the second unit. Perhaps its best to leave well enough alone as our second unit is helping us quite well, but I think the capacity for them to get some quick points to regain points or improve our lead is there. As others have stated, our second unit might be the difference in a lot of close games for us. Even if we just run the break occasionally to get RJ in the open court so he can draw fouls and get to the free throw line, then I think we're moving in the right direction. I still feel that Manu would be needed to help direct traffic and make the appropriate pass, but as you said, focusing on the outlet pass is key as well, and perhaps Blair can be trusted to move the ball quickly after getting the rebound.

This would take practice and a commitment by the coaches, but considering how many more teams fast break this year, it's inevitable we'll get pulled into a fast-paced game at some point and for some stretches. Might as well know how to run the break. That's just fundamentals.

[Drewlius]

Play like Rip Hamilton/Reggie Miller imo.

[Blackjack]

I agree with this as well. Good points.

To follow up on some of your points, Pop probably doesn't have the temperament to embrace the mistakes that would come with this approach. But as it is, I don't think the team as a whole has a unified approach to begin with. The team has a Gemini quality of sorts between the first and second unit, with the first unit being more traditional by "running" the offense through Tim and Tony. The second unit has the potential for episodic outbreaks for spectacular plays as we saw with Blair and his rebounds and blocks. There is an interesting level of chaos already imbedded in the second unit. Perhaps its best to leave well enough alone as our second unit is helping us quite well, but I think the capacity for them to get some quick points to regain points or improve our lead is there.

I like the 'episodic outbreaks' take; if for no other reason than the mental picture.:lol

This team truly has a legit X-factor quality in their bench and not the manufactured one it's been in the past with Manu; Manu's probably the biggest X-factor in the league when he's right, but his presence on the bench was one of necessity and not luxury.

With Hill, Blair, and Hairston, should he ever get the opportunity, they've now got genuine energy and athleticism coming off the bench as a luxury. Instead of worrying about balancing your first and second unit and massaging minutes to make sure one or two of the Big 3 were always complimenting their dependent role-players, you now see a team that can attack in waves. They're not looking to hold down the fort or maintain the status quo, there looking to inject life, enthusiasm, and tempo in an effort to extend the lead.

It's a luxury that past years haven't afforded.


Perhaps its best to leave well enough alone as our second unit is helping us quite well, but I think the capacity for them to get some quick points to regain points or improve our lead is there.

I think what we're looking for is a tweak, not an overhaul; the train's probably left the track as it pertains to this season.


As others have stated, our second unit might be the difference in a lot of close games for us. Even if we just run the break occasionally to get RJ in the open court so he can draw fouls and get to the free throw line, then I think we're moving in the right direction.

And that's the point.

If it's a possession, a three-minute stretch or quarter, there's progress to be made and ground to be gained. You're not going to recondition a team to play a different way after this many years, but it's perfectly reasonable to accommodate the gifts of a big-time acquisition like RJ; making him conform to a half-court style that's more conducive to the spot-up three is a wasted investment.


I still feel that Manu would be needed to help direct traffic and make the appropriate pass, but as you said, focusing on the outlet pass is key as well, and perhaps Blair can be trusted to move the ball quickly after getting the rebound.

Manu will always be a helpful addition to the equation; health permitting, of course. He's the Spurs' most gifted passer and his three-point shot has to be honored. There's no reason that he and RJ shouldn't thrive given the time to build their chemistry.

Blair definitely has an Unseld quality about him and the potential to outlet the ball in a similar fashion. I think he's opened the eyes of some to be a pretty deft passer, as well.


This would take practice and a commitment by the coaches, but considering how many more teams fast break this year, it's inevitable we'll get pulled into a fast-paced game at some point and for some stretches. Might as well know how to run the break. That's just fundamentals.

They'll get their opportunity to show if they can be the chameleons of yesteryear, and I'll be looking forward to those Suns-type match-ups; it's easy to forget just how much turnover there's been on this roster and I'm interested in seeing how this team adapts to styles and adverse situations with significantly less championship mettle on the roster.

[raspsa]

Nothing that more time won't solve.. RJ says he's something like 30% along the learning curve if I understood his latest interview correctly.. so he's still not playing "relaxed".. they'll work things out .

[TD 21]

Great post

I still think RJ should start but he must be on the court when TP or TD are resting

It is a great post.

I agree. It's simple: Jefferson should play the first 5 minutes, then exit when Ginobili enters. He should sit roughly 5 minutes, then (when Parker is out, which usually happens about 8 minutes in and when Duncan is out, which usually happens about 9-10 minutes in) re-enter and along with Ginobili be featured in the offense through the remainder of the 1st quarter and the start of the 2nd quarter. Then, when Parker and Duncan return (they're usually both back in between 3-5 minutes into the 2nd quarter), Jefferson can come back out for a quick blow, then re-enter in the last 5 minutes of the half. Basically, in this rotation he'd play 10 minutes with Duncan and Parker and another 6-8 without them, so you get that perfect balance of playing with them and getting more comfortable and playing without them and getting a play ran for him more frequently.

[The Truth #6]

Sounds like a pretty good rotation.