KObe disrespected Ewing, Willis Reed and Walt Frazier

[ChrisRichards]

November 25, 2009, 9:26 am
Bryant Believes Knicks Will Get a Star, Just Not Him
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
LOS ANGELES — Kobe Bryant has avoided discussion of free agency in 2010, saying he will not discuss scenarios hypothetically.

Bubbling below the LeBron James bonanza is the notion that Bryant, too, can become a free agent. Few expect him to leave the Los Angeles Lakers and Bryant and his agent Rob Pelinka say they are working toward a contract extension. With few sound bites from either of them, reporters have mostly left the topic alone.

When nudged on the issue by New York reporters, Bryant touched briefly on the topic regarding his Olympic teammates James and Dwyane Wade, while removing himself from the discussion.

“It’ll be interesting,” Bryant said after the Lakers beat the Knicks, 100-90, Tuesday. “It’ll be interesting. I know those guys want to sit back and see their options. New York will definitely be one of the options. Whether they go or not, I don’t know.”

Bryant said he believed New York has never had one of the league’s most notable players, like Bryant, James, or Michael Jordan. (Bryant seems to count Hall of Famers like Walt Frazer, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Patrick Ewing as role players). They may land a player of Bryant’s caliber next summer. It just won’t be him.

“It’ll make a difference,” Bryant said. “That city has never had that. They’ve never had a flashy or marquee guy. If you look back to the years that they won championships, it’s always been a team effort. They never had a star, so this will be the first time they’ve had one of those guys.”

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/bryant-believes-knicks-will-get-a-star-just-not-him/



man this guy needs to know history before he opens his mouth :rolleyes

[JoeTait75]

The Knicks disrespect their legends on a nightly basis more than Kobe, LeBron or anyone else could ever hope to.

[ChrisRichards]

The Knicks disrespect their legends on a nightly basis more than Kobe, LeBron or anyone else could ever hope to.
Come on, not acknowledging Reed, Frazier and Ewing as Marquee players is just disrespectful Lets not talk about the organization in general.

[JoeTait75]

Come on, not acknowledging Reed, Frazier and Ewing as Marquee players is just disrespectful Lets not talk about the organization in general.

The Knicks have always sold those early '70s teams as supremely cohesive units, with no man bigger than the whole. Kobe was simply buying in to the view that organization has of those teams, in so many words.

[ChrisRichards]

The Knicks have always sold those early '70s teams as supremely cohesive units, with no man bigger than the whole. Kobe was simply buying in to the view that organization has of those teams, in so many words.
Ewing played in the 70's?

:rollin

[ChrisRichards]

You have so much to learn, kid. There is a reason why no one talks about Ewing, Walt, and Willis when you are talking about all-time greats. Ewing should have been that, but he sort of failed to be the guy they thought he was coming out of college.
Still not enough reason why Ewing should not be considered "Marquee"

[JoeTait75]

Ewing played in the 70's?

:rollin

:rolleyes

Last I checked, Reed and Frazier did.

[ChrisRichards]

:rolleyes

Last I checked, Reed and Frazier did.
Last I check Ewing was mentioned in the article. But somehow you skipped that:rolleyes

[Tacker]

You have so much to learn, kid. There is a reason why no one talks about Ewing, Walt, and Willis when you are talking about all-time greats. Ewing should have been that, but he sort of failed to be the guy they thought he was coming out of college.

What are you smoking, Ewing was a great player and played up to his expectations its just that he played in the Jordan Era...
Him and Shaq were the only players in the East to lead their team into the finals during the 90s.......

[ChrisRichards]

Try putting the quote into context. "Marquee" to you, is not "Marquee" to Kobe. When I first read the article yesterday, it raised my eyebrows when he said Ewing, but I see his point.
A Marquee to me (in this case Ewing) was a Marquee to the same people who watched Ewing play basketball in the 80's-90's.


Ewing was an NBA All Defense, All NBA team and NBA All star (11x) for multiple times in his career. He won ROY, was selected as one of the 50 greatest players of all time. He is a HOF'er.


When people talk about the Knicks in the 90's it was Ewing's team.


Yeah im sure my understanding of a "Marquee" player is right there with the rest of the world. If Wade or Lebron mentioned this, im sure you Laker hacks would be all over their throats.

[ChrisRichards]

What are you smoking.
he was smoking Kobe Bryant Cock flavored cigarettes.

[ChrisRichards]

What am I smoking??? Ewing coming out of college was touted as the next Wilt, or better. I'm not denying he was a great player, but he definitely fell short of what was expected. I'm glad you brought up the fact that he failed to get past MJ, which supports my argument. The Knicks should have won some of those series in the 90's, but Ewing was never able to come up big, like true "Marquee"
players. And don't give me that MJ bullshit, what happen when MJ retired, Ewing became Hakeem's bitch.
:lol:lol:lol

so ewing failed to win a championship and that doesnt make him marquee?


barkley, malone, stockton,iverson are not marquee because they did not win a title


:rollin:rollin:rollin

[ElNono]

Exactly! Barkely, Malone, Stockon, and Iverson are not marquee players, they are role players

http://englishrussia.com/forum/files/blank_facepalm_224.gif

[NBA Junkie]

It's good to see that Kobe winning a title without Shaq didn't go to his head. :lol

[JamStone]

I agree with Kobe. The Knicks have had great players before, and maybe you could make a case for Walt Frazier being that marquee player. But he was more flashy off the court than on. And, as great a player as Frazier was, he isn't in the same class as a LeBron or Wade. The Knicks really haven't had a guy like that. It's true.

[ezau]

Exactly! Barkely, Malone, Stockon, and Iverson are not marquee players, they are role players

Wow. These guys were the centerpieces of their teams back then and you consider them as role players?

[ezau]

You should also add Robinson to that list. Kobe should have used a better word for these failures at leadership, but I get his point.

Gasol and Bynum will never be half the player that Robinson was.

[JoeTait75]

Exactly! Barkely, Malone, Stockon, and Iverson are not marquee players, they are role players that could never step up and lead.

Dude. Stockton? Seriously?

[Chieflion]

Yup, Stockton. His greatest attribute was his health. I can take 20 PG's over the years, and put them on that same team, let them play 20 years, and they would have given the same result. He was a role player.
I see. That makes plenty of sense. Garnett without the Celtics would have been a role player too.

[ezau]

You are totally missing the point. I can take each and every last one of those guys and swap them on other teams during their era, and they would be role players. Just because they were the lead guys on their teams doesnt mean shit. Baron Davis was Golden States Franchise player when they beat the Mavs, but on a really good team, he's a role player, the same can be said for all of the other players mentioned.

Stockton, the greatest pure PG to play the game=role player?
Malone, one of the greatest power forwards to play the game=role player?

I know that these guys weren't able to beat Jordan in the 90s' but how many did?

[ezau]

Yup, Stockton. His greatest attribute was his health. I can take 20 PG's over the years, and put them on that same team, let them play 20 years, and they would have given the same result. He was a role player.

Ok, so name 20 PGs who would've been as successful as Stockton if they played for the Jazz

[JoeTait75]

Lets be honest, you use that pure PG shit to exclude the greatest PG, Magic, so I'll play. Zeke was a much better player than Stockton, and he kicked Jordans ass plenty of times, and he didn't have one of the greatest PF's of all-time. Now what?

Rodman and Mahorn were kicking Jordan's ass, not Zeke. Although Zeke was good for punching someone in the back of the head and running away. :rolleyes

Stockton was a money player. He took every big shot for that Jazz team and made a lot of them. You want to dog Malone for not coming up large in the clutch, that's one thing. But Stockton was a player.

[Chef Boyardee]

People need to reread what he says. Ewing wasn't exactly the kind of player that people specifically went to see. Was Ewing a flashy player? No. There's nothing flashy about elbow jumpers and those ugly ass hook shots he loved so much.

[ChrisRichards]

I agree with Kobe. The Knicks have had great players before, and maybe you could make a case for Walt Frazier being that marquee player. But he was more flashy off the court than on. And, as great a player as Frazier was, he isn't in the same class as a LeBron or Wade. The Knicks really haven't had a guy like that. It's true.
youre an idiot :rolleyes



Reed played an important role in the Knick success, and in 1970 he became the first player in NBA history to be named the NBA All-Star Game MVP, the NBA regular season MVP (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award), and the NBA Playoff MVP in the same season. That same year, he was named to the All-NBA first team and NBA All-Defensive first team, as well as being named as ABC (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Company)'s Wide World of Sports (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Wide_World_of_Sports_(U.S._TV_series)) Athlete of the Year, and the Sporting News (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Sporting_News) NBA MVP.Reed played an important role in the Knick success, and in 1970 he became the first player in NBA history to be named the NBA All-Star Game MVP, the NBA regular season MVP (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player_Award), and the NBA Playoff MVP in the same season. That same year, he was named to the All-NBA first team and NBA All-Defensive first team, as well as being named as ABC (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/American_Broadcasting_Company)'s Wide World of Sports (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Wide_World_of_Sports_(U.S._TV_series)) Athlete of the Year, and the Sporting News (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/Sporting_News) NBA MVP.



willis reed for one won 2 finals mvp and 1 regular season but he's not a marquee player?

[NBA Junkie]

If Kobe counts HOF'ers as "role players" what does that make Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom?

[ChrisRichards]

Stockton, the greatest pure PG to play the game=role player?
Malone, one of the greatest power forwards to play the game=role player?

I know that these guys weren't able to beat Jordan in the 90s' but how many did?
im tellin you some of these guys are just either too young or just plain dumb :lol

[ChrisRichards]

if kobe counts hof'ers as "role players" what does that make pau gasol and lamar odom?
exactly

[Chef Boyardee]

Why are you so butthurt over what he said about the Knicks anyway. They've been irrelevant since the early 70's. It's horrible franchise that deserves to be shitted on.

[ezau]

im tellin you some of these guys are just either too young or just plain dumb :lol

Lakaluva is a hopeless lunatic. I know that he'll suck Kobe's cock in a heartbeat but the fact that he completely disregards other players' accomplishments is unheard of. :lol

[NBA Junkie]

Assuming that Kobe knows the history of the Knicks of the late '60's/early '70's, perhaps what he meant to say was that Reed and Frazier didn't have to be as impactful due to the fact that Dave Debusschere and Bill Bradley were also HOF'ers and that they took a lot of the load off those two players.

I believe that is why he refers to them as more team oriented.

[JoeTait75]

Lets be real about this. Kobe used the term "marquee in association with "superstar." These terms are loosely thrown around by the average fan. Like today, there are only two superstars in the league, Kobe and James. Nash won B2B MVP's. Was he a marquee player? Hell no! You have to understand the difference between a Thoroughbred and a Mule.

That makes sense. But you called David Robinson and John Stockton role players. When you say "role player" I think guys like Rick Fox.

[pauls931]

Yup, Stockton. His greatest attribute was his health. I can take 20 PG's over the years, and put them on that same team, let them play 20 years, and they would have given the same result. He was a role player.

Dude, quit posting utter nonsense to piss people off.

[Cleveland Steamer]

no surprises here. Kobe disrespects his own teammates so why wouldn't he disrespect some old Knicks?

[pauls931]

Answer the question paul. Was Barkely and Drexler marquee players? Yes or no.

I'd probably say yes and yes, just because you're removing players from your original claim to try to win a losing argument.

[NBA Junkie]

No that's not what he meant, none of those guys were marquee players, and he's right. I have a question for you so-called know-it-alls. Was Barkely and Drexler marquee players?

Whatever.

It's downright preposterous that he claims that players like Reed and Frazier weren't marquee players when many fans, coaches and players of that era would claim otherwise.

As a previous poster said earlier in the thread, it's Kobe being his usual arrogant, charming self.

[oligarchy]

Name one player that saying this, that's as great as Kobe?

Name all of the "marquee" players that have existed in the NBA please.

[NBA Junkie]

Name one player that saying this, that's as great as Kobe?

Many would argue that Reed and Frazier were just as impactful during that time as Kobe is right now.

I guess you're basing Kobe's brilliance on the fact that he has 4 rings to their 1. If that's the case, then I guess that LeBron and DWade don't belong in his class either. :rolleyes

I'm not arguing this any further. The whole thing is silly since I'm arguing with a Laker homer who is defending one of his own.

[Culburn369]

Frazier is arguable.

Reed & Ewing are not. Luva's assessment of them is dead on accurate.

[Culburn369]

You guys fail to adress the fact that MJ didn't consider Barkely and Drexler as marquee players.

Luva painted 'em into a corner quite nice & tidy.

tee, hee.

[oligarchy]

Not many. I'll give a few, but overall less than 20.

Mikan
Russell
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Hakeem
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
And James will eventually be one when he leaves Cleveland. Walton would have been without the injuries.

Keep in mind, I purposely left off Dr. J, Pistol, Walton, West, Moses, Malone, and many other players of that caliber.

So you are basically saying what Kobe said is idiotic, seeing that Lebron and Wade both aren't marquee players either according to you.

[ElNono]

If you are MJ, and the best player of your era, and you say, "the Warriors never had a marquee player."

First of all, Kobe is not MJ. Not even close.
Second of all, Kobe is not the best player of his era.

Now, please leave the GOAT out of this. Kobe is the one talking out of his ass here.

[FkLA]

Just Kobe being the narcissistic dbag that he is. Nothing to see here.

[Culburn369]

First of all, Kobe is not MJ. Not even close.

True, Kobe is not MJ. Is he close? He's lurking. 2 more rings though? Oh, my.

[Culburn369]

You see these fucking snakes?


:lol You put the stopper in the bottle with the MJ question.

[ElNono]

True, Kobe is not MJ. Is he close? He's lurking. 2 more rings though? Oh, my.

You mean 5 more rings...

[oligarchy]

At least do me the service of following along in the posts before you go challenging me. I already said that Kobe was wrong for including Wade, he's a role player. As much as I hate James....:lol He's going to eventually learn to play his position, and allow his teammates to grow, and then he will be unstoppable and maybe win some rings. His decision this summer will be career breaking.

So, Kobe's an idiot, as well as you. Thanks for clarifying you're a fucking idiot. You fail to follow your own logic, I don't need to "challenge" you. You own yourself. You should do yourself a favor and read your posts.

I'll break down the points, since you are apparently too much of an idiot to follow them through the posts. Kobe basically said, Ewing, Reed and Frazier weren't marquee, but Wade and James were. You said Wade isn't marquee, and later said James would someday be marquee, which means neither are marquee. So, you're a fucking idiot. :toast

[Bob Lanier]

I don't have a problem with what he said. In Los Angeles you have to be a circus freak to draw a crowd; New York stands on its own and its sports teams stand on their merits. Every notable Knicks team has been better defensively than LA fans would ever tolerate, and every notable Lakers team has been more star-studded than New York fans would ever require.

The problem is that the Knicks suck. And LeBron or Wade won't be a cure-all for that.

[ElNono]

Ok, I have a taker. Lets assume everything you say about Kobe is true. Was Jordan correct in saying that Pippen, Barkely, and Drexler were not marquee players?

I want to see the quote where MJ says that Barkley and Drexler are not marquee players. All I've seen so far is MJ telling somebody that they won't win a ring with Barkley or that he wanted to prove Drexler's game was not close to his...

So let's see it... where's MJ saying Barkley is not a marquee player... heck, even a superstar or HOF'er... show me the quote. Same thing with Drexler.

[Culburn369]

You mean 5 more rings...

No, 2 more rings. They'd each have 6 and one could argue Kobe without reservation.

[ElNono]

No, 2 more rings. They'd each have 6 and one could argue Kobe without reservation.

Kobe has 1 ring as the leader of a team. MJ has 6. You do the math.

[Culburn369]

Kobe has 1 ring as the leader of a team. MJ has 6. You do the math.

:rolleyes

[Cane]

Kobe's a roleplayer too if Dwade and Lebron are.

[oligarchy]

No, 2 more rings. They'd each have 6 and one could argue Kobe without reservation.

Remember how you are following your boy's asinine conclusions of who is marquee. MJ didn't have a marquee player for any of his rings, just role players. While, on the other side of the spectrum, Shaq was the marquee player of the Lakers. :depressed

[Culburn369]

Luva got a few turkey rolls ta roilin'. tee, hee.

[ElNono]

Wade has one ring... but he's not marquee? Why? Because he had Shaq?... hmmm... better not go that route...

[oligarchy]

Luva got a few turkey rolls ta roilin'. tee, hee.

lulz. 6 > 1

[Culburn369]

Shaq was the marquee player of the Lakers.

Kobe is also a marquee player.

[FkLA]

:rolleyes

Seriously though man why does Laker fan bring up Kobe's 4 rings and compare them to other guys' rings (like Timmy or MJ) as if all things were equal? As if Kobe is as responsible for the Lakers' sucess as much as Duncan/MJ are for the Spurs/Bulls sucess. The latter were the clear cut centerpieces of their teams' sucess and the former simply wasnt. Kobe was still a great player but the centerpiece of the 00-02 Lakers was Shaq. Plain and simple.

[Cane]

Yea, Kobe is a great roleplayer.

[ElNono]

Many player have one ring, so what.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/8/26/633553695829349661-mad.jpg

[oligarchy]

Don't toast me jackass. I'm in line with MJ. You can argue it because your level of understanding the game is low, at best. You're not checking me on shit, I've already stated that Wade, Reed, Ewing, and Frazier were not marquee players. James may get there. If you want to disagree with Kobe on anything, its that, not the fact that the Knicks have never had a marquee player, because they haven't..

Indeed I can argue it, because you're a moron, which you already proved. You can't have things both ways. It's apparent, according to your logic, he has no clue what "marquee" means. So, don't try to proclaim you're some knowledgeable basketball fan, when it's conclusive you don't know dick.

[Culburn369]

Seriously though man why does Laker fan bring up Kobe's 4 rings

Cuz it drives you Kobe haters nutty-nuts. It do not get better than that.

[Cane]

nutty-nuts?

[oligarchy]

you're in the midst of proving you're are an idiot over and over. Success!

[FkLA]

Its not a good comparison. I would use a Magic/Kareem comparison to Shaq/Kobe. You never hear idiots saying Magic wouldn't have 5 rings without Kareem, or vice versa. The obvious thing about your post is Shaq was never the go to guy for the Lakers, Kobe was. I challenge you to find one game of Shaq calling for the ball with less than two minutes to go. Kobe is in the mist of making you all Deep Throat him. Damn, that must hurt.

Im not really arguing that he wouldnt have the rings without Shaq, thats a given. Just like Shaq wouldnt have the rings without Kobe. All Im saying is you simply cannot equate them to Tim's for instance or MJ's if he ever reaches 6. Shaq had 1 MVP and 3 Finals MVPs from 00-02...that was his team. Shaq was 1a and Kobe was 1b there really is no arguing that. The Spurs and Bulls on the other hand were always Tim's and MJs teams.

I dont really see it as Magic/Kareem either, if it was the present day Kobe that played with 00-02 Shaq I would buy it. Young Kobe still had alot of things to figure out though he wasnt there yet.

[ElNono]

Where are the MJ quotes where he says Barkley and Drexler are not superstars?

Let me know if you need help finding them...

[ElNono]

Im not really arguing that he wouldnt have the rings without Shaq, thats a given. Just like Shaq wouldnt have the rings without Kobe. All Im saying is you simply cannot equate them to Tim's for instance or MJ's if he ever reaches 6. Shaq had 1 MVP and 3 Finals MVPs from 00-02...that was his team. Shaq was 1a and Kobe was 1b there really is no arguing that. The Spurs and Bulls on the other hand were always Tim's and MJs teams.

I dont really see it as Magic/Kareem either, if it was the present day Kobe that played with 00-02 Shaq I would buy it. Young Kobe still had alot of things to figure out though he wasnt there yet.

It's really simple. You could have replaced Kobe with at least 10-15 different players in 00-02 and still won. The only player you could have replaced Shaq with back then and still won was Duncan. You know that, I know that. Most Lakerfan secretly know that too.

[ElNono]

You lost. Move on.

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

I'll be waiting for the quotes... :lmao

[FkLA]

Do you know that MJ has never won more than 40 games without Pippen? Are we going here, really? Shaq was the man on those titles teams, but Kobe was the go-to guy, hands down. You being a Spurs fans should know that better than anyone.

Look man, noone is saying Shaq didnt need Kobe. Noone is saying Kobe wasnt all league from 00-02. It was a nice partnership but ultimately it was Shaqs team even if it was by the smallest of margins. Which is why its retarded to try to equate Kobe's rings to TD's who has been the clear cut centerpiece of his team his entire career. The same with MJ if Kobe were to ever reach 6.

As far as being the go-to guy. That had to do with Shaq's FT woes as well as Kobe definitely being one clutch ass mofo, that doesnt really change the fact that it was Shaq's team though. Ginobili regularly has the ball in his hands late in games yet I dont see anyone arguing that the Spurs are his team just as much as theyre Duncan's.

[oligarchy]

Bitch, don't come trying to tell me shit I've pointed out 3 pages ago. Robinson was a role player too. He proved so as soon as Duncan came along. That glove fit perfect for him.

lulz. "Bitch." Why don't you pull out your GED and put it to some good use. :lol

Please learn what marquee means. :toast

[FkLA]

NO, that had to do with Shaq not having a dependable go-to move when we needed some clutch play, but you can choose to believe otherwise. Question? You do know that Kobe won without Shaq? You do know that Kobe is on his way to having more success without Shaq than he did with him?

No dependable move? GTFO the man was the most dominant player on the planet from 00-02, if you gave him the ball in the paint your chances were good. In late moments though teams would wrap him up and send him to the line where he wasnt very good. That coupled with Kobe's clutchness is the real reason and you know it. You do know I never said Kobe couldnt win without Shaq? You do know Shaq has won without Kobe just as much as Kobe has without him? You do know 'being on his way' means jack shit until it actually happens?

Love the way you ignore rest of the post too, so tell me...how exactly do Kobe's 4 equate to Timmy's 4 despite the fact that Kobe was second fiddle (even if it was by the smallest of margins) for three of them?

[ElNono]

I'm not going to do your homework for you. If you've followed basketball for the last 20 years, then you would know that Pippen leaked a private conversation between him and MJ, about Barkley. The quote about Drexler came during an interview with MJ after he curb-stomped Drexler in the finals. Then Drexler happily went on to become a role player behind Hakeem to win a title, a true marquee player.

Hey, it's YOU making the claims. It's YOUR job to back up what you say.
Let's see it. MJ saying neither Barkley or Drexler are superstars or even HOF'ers for that matter.

Otherwise we would have to assume you're full of shit, which really would be par for the course...

[Def Rowe]

lulz. "Bitch." Why don't you pull out your GED and put it to some good use. :lol

Please learn what marquee means. :toast

Eh, perhaps LakaLuva setting the bar a cunt hair too high, but it makes for an interesting discussion.

[ElNono]

Kobe needs at least 3 more rings to catch up to Duncan and Shaq... Just like we would ask Wade to win 4 more also...
Right now, he's the best and most dominant player in the league. He has a ring being that. I don't think he has enough left for two more runs, but we'll see.

[oligarchy]

You fickle little Spur fans are amazingly small minded. Hell, Parker is a marquee player, you technical fuck. Do I have to spell everything out for you. It took you five fucking pages, and countless failed attempts to make a solid point to know that Kobe used the term marquee out of context? You thick-headed bastard.

Incorrect. It didn't take me 5 pages. It took me one post for draw you into your incorrect assumptions, and one more post to show you the error of your ways, which you still can't see. Why? Because, you're a small minded fucking moron. You don't know dick about anything, and you post repetitively changing your point. Those two posts alone, as well as many others in this thread have shown you don't know dick. Kobe used marquee out of context, as well as you saying what players aren't. I'm sorry you don't get that. LOL.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/petluvins/PityTheFool.jpg

[ElNono]

Whats funny is people have posted in this thread know exactly the quotes I'm talking about, but purposely let you continue to make a fool of yourself. I would point you to the exact quote, but you seem so shallow that I hand picked a long read for you. You need to catch up.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1017938/1/index.htm

It's your credibility on the line, not mine. You got called out. Prove you're not talking out of your ass.
If it's so easy, just post the damn quotes instead of going around in circles...

And BTW, people that posted in this thread have pretty much all calling you out on your bullshit. The only one looking like a fool is you.

[carrao45]

No dependable move? GTFO the man was the most dominant player on the planet from 00-02, if you gave him the ball in the paint your chances were good. In late moments though teams would wrap him up and send him to the line where he wasnt very good. That coupled with Kobe's clutchness is the real reason and you know it. You do know I never said Kobe couldnt win without Shaq? You do know Shaq has won without Kobe just as much as Kobe has without him? You do know 'being on his way' means jack shit until it actually happens?

Love the way you ignore rest of the post too, so tell me...how exactly do Kobe's 4 equate to Timmy's 4 despite the fact that Kobe was second fiddle (even if it was by the smallest of margins) for three of them?

But Shaq winning w/o Kobe clearly doesn't count as much as Kobe winning w/o Shaq. Because Kobe won w/o Shaq while being "The Man."

Shaq on the other hand won w/o Kobe as the clear 2nd option, not even 1a.
This is all according to your logic

This means Kobe has done better w/o Shaq than Shaq has done w/o Kobe.

[carrao45]

You fickle little Spur fans are amazingly small minded. Hell, Parker is a marquee player, you technical fuck. Do I have to spell everything out for you. It took you five fucking pages, and countless failed attempts to make a solid point to know that Kobe used the term marquee out of context? You thick-headed bastard.

Don't overestimate their intelligence, or expect to much out of them.

It just makes you look mean:lol

[ElNono]

Learn to google. I gave you a link. Like I said, anyone that has fllowed the game for the last 20 years knows that Barkely and Pip fell out and Pip took it personal and said some shit he shouldn't have. That's as much as I'm telling you.

Just say "MJ never said such a thing, I just made it up to back up my point", then we can all move on.

[FkLA]

But Shaq winning w/o Kobe clearly doesn't count as much as Kobe winning w/o Shaq. Because Kobe won w/o Shaq while being "The Man."

Shaq on the other hand won w/o Kobe as the clear 2nd option, not even 1a.
This is all according to your logic

This means Kobe has done better w/o Shaq than Shaq has done w/o Kobe.

Point taken. Although like I said Ive never been arguing that Kobe wouldnt have won without Shaq, I think thats a given. Just like Shaq wouldnt have won without Shaq. They needed each other during those years it was a nice partnership.

With that said, it was Shaq's team even if it was by the smallest of margins evidenced by Shaq's MVP and 3 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 0 and 0. So how can you possibly equate Kobe's 4 rings to Duncan's 4 when Kobe was second fiddle in 3 of them? I dont expect yall Laker fans to just throw out those 3 titles and act as if Kobe wasnt a big part of them, he was a big part of them no doubt but simply not as big of a part as Duncan was for the Spurs' 4 titles. Because of those reasons there is no way that you can objectively equate his 4 rings to Tim's 4 rings, it just isnt possible. Same with MJ's if Kobe ever gets to 6.

[ElNono]

They are the ones that continuously remind the world of how smart and classy they are. Just look at the pervert oligarchysaying I have a GED, all the while he like kiddy porn...:lmao

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/petluvins/

Don't change the subject, please. Come on, just admit you lied to try to backup your weak ass point. A simple "MJ never said that, I made it up" will suffice.

[oligarchy]

They are the ones that continuously remind the world of how smart and classy they are. Just look at the pervert oligarchysaying I have a GED, all the while he like kiddy porn...:lmao

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa203/petluvins/

Because that is definitely my photobucket album and not me linking to some picture on the internet. I assume you wrote that sports illustrated article because you posted it? Again, proving how much of a fucking idiot you are. LOL. YOU ARE MARQUEE!!

[ChrisRichards]

Kobe as the lone "marquee guy" on his team barely made the playoffs. Scottie Pippen after Jordan retired took his team to the ECF. Iverson as the lone marquee guy took his team to the finals. Kobe has been blessed to play on some very talented teams with the likes of Shaq, Gasol, Odom, Glen Rice, Bynum, Payton, Malone etc. Kobe has always been arrogant, but this got under my skin. All of your titles have been with A LOT of help, so maybe that makes KOBE a ROLE PLAYER too.

[carrao45]

Point taken. Although like I said Ive never been arguing that Kobe wouldnt have won without Shaq, I think thats a given. Just like Shaq wouldnt have won without Shaq. They needed each other during those years it was a nice partnership.

With that said, it was Shaq's team even if it was by the smallest of margins evidenced by Shaq's MVP and 3 Finals MVPs to Kobe's 0 and 0. So how can you possibly equate Kobe's 4 rings to Duncan's 4 when Kobe was second fiddle in 3 of them? I dont expect yall Laker fans to just throw out those 3 titles and act as if Kobe wasnt a big part of them, he was a big part of them no doubt but simply not as big of a part as Duncan was for the Spurs' 4 titles. Because of those reasons there is no way that you can objectively equate his 4 rings to Tim's 4 rings, it just isnt possible. Same with MJ's if Kobe ever gets to 6.

I can equate them because I know, and have seen, how unbelievably good he was during those 3 title years. Especially his 2001 playoffs. Shaq was better in the Finals, but Kobe was better in the first 3 rounds. He was beyond spectacular. 2002 Playoffs he was amazing as well.


I'll give you the 2000 Playoffs, because he wasn't really KOBE yet (Except in game 4 of the finals,Jordanesque, and also against the Suns in game 2)

[ElNono]

You want to put a lifetime ban on this? If no then move on.

There are two choices here:
A) You post the quotes from MJ clearly saying neither Barkley or Drexler are superstars or HOF'ers.
B) You admit you're a liar

They've always been the same two options since I called you out on it about an hour or so ago. Man up and make a choice.

[ChrisRichards]

I can equate them because I know, and have seen, how unbelievably good he was during those 3 title years. Especially his 2001 playoffs. Shaq was better in the Finals, but Kobe was better in the first 3 rounds. He was beyond spectacular. 2002 Playoffs he was amazing as well.


I'll give you the 2000 Playoffs, because he wasn't really KOBE yet (Except in game 4 of the finals,Jordanesque, and also against the Suns in game 2)
but lets face it.


kobe was a role player right next to the shaqtus

[carrao45]

Kobe as the lone "marquee guy" on his team barely made the playoffs. Scottie Pippen after Jordan retired took his team to the ECF. Iverson as the lone marquee guy took his team to the finals. Kobe has been blessed to play on some very talented teams with the likes of Shaq, Gasol, Odom, Glen Rice, Bynum, Payton, Malone etc. Kobe has always been arrogant, but this got under my skin as a knick fan. All of your titles have been with A LOT of help, so maybe that makes KOBE a ROLE PLAYER too.

Yeah, never mind that the mediocre Laker years were in the Western Conference which was stacked. Nevermind that Malone did't play in the '04 Finals, and Payton was awful.

Nevermind that in 05-07 Kobe had possibly the worst selection of talent around him the league has seen in 20 years. Smush fucking Parker, Kwami, and Luke Walton Started

[carrao45]

but lets face it.


kobe was a role player right next to the shaqtus
Points-Assists-Boards
22-5-5
25-5-5
25-5-5

Role Player stats huh?

Did you even watch the games?

[FkLA]

I can equate them because I know, and have seen, how unbelievably good he was during those 3 title years. Especially his 2001 playoffs. Shaq was better in the Finals, but Kobe was better in the first 3 rounds. He was beyond spectacular. 2002 Playoffs he was amazing as well.


I'll give you the 2000 Playoffs, because he wasn't really KOBE yet (Except in game 4 of the finals,Jordanesque, and also against the Suns in game 2)

I could easily argue about 2001 and 2002, but its really not necessary 2000 is enough. So lets play along and act as if 2001 and 2002 Shaq was second fiddle to Kobe. Thats still 3 as first fiddle to Duncan's 4 as first fiddlle...sure he was only second fiddle to Shaq in 2000 by a small margin but he was still second fiddle nontheless. So logically shouldnt Duncan's 4 rings carry slightly more weight than Kobe's?

[ElNono]

Nevermind that in 05-07 Kobe had possibly the worst selection of talent around him the league has seen in 20 years. Smush fucking Parker, Kwami, and Luke Walton Started

And accordingly he missed the playoffs and then lost in the first round.
That still makes it 20% of his career. For 80% of his career, he had fairly top notch talent around him.

[ElNono]

First of all, I never said that MJ said they weren't HOF'ers. He said Barkely is a loser, and Pip would never win a title with him, and he said Drexler wasn't even close to his level, and what he said was true. Now, if you want to find that out, then google, or put up a life time self ban.

Don't move the goalposts now. You claimed that MJ said that neither Drexler or Barkley were marquee players and you equated marquee player with superstar.
MJ never said those things. Thank you for being a man, and admitting you were lying to try to make a point. Now we can put this to rest.

[carrao45]

I could easily argue about 2001 and 2002, but its really not necessary 2000 is enough. So lets play along and act as if 2001 and 2002 Shaq was second fiddle to Kobe. Thats still 3 as first fiddle to Duncan's 4 as first fiddlle...sure he was only second fiddle to Shaq in 2000 by a small margin but he was still second fiddle nontheless. So logically shouldnt Duncan's 4 rings carry slightly more weight than Kobe's?

Show me where i said Shaq was second fiddle to Kobe.

I said Kobe was spectacular during those runs and as such his championships shouldn't be discredited, as you are doing.

[FkLA]

Duncan has been in the league one year less than Kobe, yet Kobe has dominated Duncan with Shaq, and without him. Duncan only gets credit for one real title, 2003. His first came in a strike year, and the rest came during a Lakers rebuild period. Now he's on the ass end of watching Kobe win more titles, while he fades away not so gracefully.

:lol

By that logic Kobe gets credit for no titles at all. In 2000 Duncan was out and injured, and in 2001 and 2002 the Spurs were waiting to draft Parker and for Ginobili to come over. In 2009 the Spurs were missing Manu and in rebuild mode waiting for Dick to come over.

[carrao45]

And accordingly he missed the playoffs and then lost in the first round.
That still makes it 20% of his career. For 80% of his career, he had fairly top notch talent around him.

Yes, him missing 16 games, Odom missing 20ish, the coach quitting halfway through the year, and Hamblim taking over and installing a new offense in the middle of the season had nothing to do with missing the playoffs

[ElNono]

Just like I thought, you wont take the bet.

Why would I bet against an admitted liar? I think this thread shows clearly how dishonest you are and how far you will go to defend your kid Kobe, even when he's flat out wrong. But I expect no less from a Kobe nutthugger! :toast

[ChrisRichards]

Points-Assists-Boards
22-5-5
25-5-5
25-5-5

Role Player stats huh?

Did you even watch the games?


99-2000 playoffs

566 FG% 30.7ppg 15.4rpg 2.2 bpg 30.6 PER
2000-2001 Playoffs

.555 % FG 30.4 PPG15.4 RPG 2.7 BPG 30.2 PER
2001-2002 Playoffs

.529 FG% 28.5ppg 12.6 rpg 28.3 PER

Finals MVP during 3 peat
Shaq 3
Kobe-0


yes i watch the game. kobe's #'s looks like a role player next to shaq :blah

[FkLA]

Show me where i said Shaq was second fiddle to Kobe.

I said Kobe was spectacular during those runs and as such his championships shouldn't be discredited, as you are doing.

So youre saying that in in 2000, a year in which Shaq won the MVP and Finals MVP and in which you admit that Kobe was still not thee KOBE, the Lakers were just as much Kobe's team as they were Shaq's?

Im not discrediting him at at all, Im not asking you to throw those accomplishments of his out the window...simply that you take into account the fact that he was second fiddle (even if it was by the smallest of margins). When you do that there is no way you can equate his 4 rings to Tim's 4 rings.

[carrao45]

99-2000 playoffs

566 FG% 30.7ppg 15.4rpg 2.2 bpg 30.6 PER
2000-2001 Playoffs

.555 % FG 30.4 PPG15.4 RPG 2.7 BPG 30.2 PER
2001-2002 Playoffs

.529 FG% 28.5ppg 12.6 rpg 28.3 PER

Finals MVP during 3 peat
Shaq 3
Kobe-0


yes i watch the game. kobe's #'s looks like a role player next to shaq :blah

This isn't relative to other players. This is about Kobe's contributions, which are more than role player on any team with any other player on said team

[ElNono]

Yes, him missing 16 games, Odom missing 20ish, the coach quitting halfway through the year, and Hamblim taking over and installing a new offense in the middle of the season had nothing to do with missing the playoffs

I'm sorry, if you're trying to debunk my point that he had top notch talent around him for 80% of his career, I don't see where you're going with this response.

[carrao45]

So youre saying that in in 2000, a year in which Shaq won the MVP and Finals MVP and in which you admit that Kobe was still not thee KOBE, the Lakers were just as much Kobe's team as they were Shaq's?

Im not discrediting him at at all, Im not asking you to throw those accomplishments of his out the window...simply that you take into account the fact that he was second fiddle (even if it was by the smallest of margins). When you do that there is no way you can equate his 4 rings to Tim's 4 rings.

No, I admitted that Kobe's 2000 run was lesser in a previous post. Try to keep up.

Agree to disagree, Kobe's titles are as legit as Duncan's in my eyes

[FkLA]

It makes no sense huh?

Not what Im doing at all bro :lol

All Im asking you Laker fans is to take into account the fact that in 2000 (I could argue 2001 and 2002 as well but like I said it isnt necessary) Kobe was second fiddle to Shaq even if it was by the smallest of margins. When you do that there simply aint no way that you can equate his titles to Duncan's child. Kobe still has 4 titles just like Duncan, he just wasnt first fiddle for all of them like Timmy was. Which helps Tim's 4 carry more weight than Kobe's 4.

[carrao45]

I'm sorry, if you're trying to debunk my point that he had top notch talent around him for 80% of his career, I don't see where you're going with this response.

I wasn't. I was replying to your comment about them missing the playoffs.



About the talent he played with...Magic played with more talent than anyone ever, with the exception of Horry (Lucky guy, he played with Hakeem, Shaq Kobe, Duncan, TP, Ginobili). Does that make Magic's accomplishments less credible?

[FkLA]

No, I admitted that Kobe's 2000 run was lesser in a previous post. Try to keep up.

Agree to disagree, Kobe's titles are as legit as Duncan's in my eyes

Shit man, Im not saying Kobe only has 3 titles or 1...he has 4 just like Timmy does, theyre legit. Hell Fisher has 4 just like Tim and Kobe do. The point Im trying to make is how many these players have as first fiddle. Timmy has done it more times as first fiddle which helps his 4 carry more weight than Kobe's 4.

I dont see how you can objectively view it any other way, but whatever :toast

[ElNono]

About the talent he played with...Magic played with more talent than anyone ever, with the exception of Horry (Lucky guy, he played with Hakeem, Shaq Kobe, Duncan, TP, Ginobili). Does that make Magic's accomplishments less credible?

No, but you can't ignore it's not a factor when determining his place in history. It's part of the reason why Jordan is considered the GOAT, instead of Magic. Similarly, when Kobe's place in history is determined, I'm sure these later years will weight much more heavily than the years he played alongside one of the most dominant players of this decade.

[ChrisRichards]

No, but you can't ignore it's not a factor when determining his place in history. It's part of the reason why Jordan is considered the GOAT, instead of Magic. Similarly, when Kobe's place in history is determined, I'm sure these later years will weight much more heavily than the years he played alongside one of the most dominant players of this decade.


if kobe wins less than 3, then he will be remembered as a role player on the first 3 then as a 1st option on his last championship

[carrao45]

Shit man, Im not saying Kobe only has 3 titles or 1...he has 4 just like Timmy does, theyre legit. Hell Fisher has 4 just like Tim and Kobe do. The point Im trying to make is how many these players have as first fiddle. Timmy has done it more times as first fiddle which helps his 4 carry more weight than Kobe's 4.

I dont see how you can objectively view it any other way, but whatever :toast

I can see where you're coming from when talking about Fisher/Horry etc.

However considering how good Kobe was, I just can't view any of his titles ( Except maybe 2000) as "carrying less weight" than Duncans.

And Kobe shouldn't be penalized for having Shaq as a teammate.




Also think of it this way. Kobe and Duncan on the same team instead of Kobe and Shaq. Who is the first option? Kobe IMO. So if they won together, Kobe's title would mean more than Duncan's (According to your logic). Would that really be true?

[ElNono]

Are you serious??? There is not a sane person on this planet that will question MAGICS greatness, with or without the players he played with.

Who said Magic is not great? Quote please.

[ezau]

Call me crazy, but I'm just not easily impressed by your acceptance of underachieving players. Stats are worthless unless accompanied with titles.

Fact is, stats speaks volumes of any player's contribution. Rings matter of course, but to dismiss anyone who hasn't won a ring as a role player is definitely wrong

[carrao45]

No, but you can't ignore it's not a factor when determining his place in history. It's part of the reason why Jordan is considered the GOAT, instead of Magic. Similarly, when Kobe's place in history is determined, I'm sure these later years will weight much more heavily than the years he played alongside one of the most dominant players of this decade.

There it is. That is why basketball debates are both fun and frustrating. A players greatness will always be defined by the person considering it. Kobe will be greater in my eyes than in yours.

This is why nobody ever says, "You win, your logic is flawless, I lose" in these debates. Because it is impossible to win or to lose.

I believe Kobe's Shaq and Post-Shaq years should both weigh equally. As should the titles

[ElNono]

And Kobe shouldn't be penalized for having Shaq as a teammate.

But he will be. They all are at one point or another. It's like Ginobili's career in the NBA will always be diminished because he played with Duncan. Same think with Parker. Even though Manu was instrumental in '05 and Tony won a Finals MVP in '07.

[ezau]

At least do me the service of following along in the posts before you go challenging me. I already said that Kobe was wrong for including Wade, he's a role player. As much as I hate James....:lol He's going to eventually learn to play his position, and allow his teammates to grow, and then he will be unstoppable and maybe win some rings. His decision this summer will be career breaking.

Wade a role player? The same guy who gave Miami the championship back in 2006. The fact that you said that anyone who hasn't won a ring is a role player already excludes Wade

[FkLA]

I can see where you're coming from when talking about Fisher/Horry etc.

However considering how good Kobe was, I just can't view any of his titles ( Except maybe 2000) as "carrying less weight" than Duncans.

And Kobe shouldn't be penalized for having Shaq as a teammate.

As a result of the 2000 title in which u admit he 'carried less weight' dont Duncan's 4 carry more weight than Kobe's 4? Even if it is by a small margin? And Im not penalizing him its just something you cant ignore.


Also think of it this way. Kobe and Duncan on the same team instead of Kobe and Shaq. Who is the first option? Kobe IMO. So if they won together, Kobe's title would mean more than Duncan's (According to your logic). Would that really be true?

Well, thats a whole different argument because personally from 00-02 I think Duncan was a better player than Kobe. But assuming Kobe was better, and lets assume Shaq was with San Antonio winning titles as the clear cut centerpiece...than yes I would definitely think that Shaq's titles held more weight than Duncan's because Duncan was second fiddle to Kobe.

[ElNono]

You small minded fuck.

Originally Posted by ElNono View Post

No, but you can't ignore it's not a factor when determining his place in history. It's part of the reason why Jordan is considered the GOAT, instead of Magic. Similarly, when Kobe's place in history is determined, I'm sure these later years will weight much more heavily than the years he played alongside one of the most dominant players of this decade.

I still don't see it. And at least two other posters clearly understood what I was saying. I'm sorry, if you're too dumb I can't help you.

[carrao45]

As a result of the 2000 title in which u admit he 'carried less weight' dont Duncan's 4 carry more weight than Kobe's 4? Even if it is by a small margin? And Im not penalizing him its just something you cant ignore.

Sure, but then you factor in Kobe 3-Peating, while Duncan has never been able to repeat, and then Kobe's carry at least as much weight at TD's. Almost all repeat champions will tell you, it's much harder to repeat than to do it once

Well, thats a whole different argument because personally from 00-02 I think Duncan was a better player than Kobe. But assuming Kobe was better, and say Shaq was with San Antonio winning titles as the clear cut centerpiece...than yes I would definitely think that Shaq's titles held more weight than Duncan's because Duncan was second fiddle to Kobe.

That wasn't even my argument...but ok

[ElNono]

The Whistler is a role player. Are you blind? I mean seriously, all jokes aside, and your hate for Mavfan. The refs gift wrapped The Whistler a title. Wade is just a glorified Joe Johnson.

So who was the marquee player of that Miami team?

[ezau]

The Whistler is a role player. Are you blind? I mean seriously, all jokes aside, and your hate for Mavfan. The refs gift wrapped The Whistler a title. Wade is just a glorified Joe Johnson.

Regardless, a ring is a ring. We're not discussing whether Wade whistled his way to get the LOB because it's a completely different thing. He won a ring and by your standards, anyone who hasn't won a ring is a role player. Is Wade still a role player by your own terms?

[carrao45]

The Whistler is a role player. Are you blind? I mean seriously, all jokes aside, and your hate for Mavfan. The refs gift wrapped The Whistler a title. Wade is just a glorified Joe Johnson.

:lmao No

[ElNono]

LOL the goalposts keep on movin on this thread...
I gotta sleep. Nite everyone...

[carrao45]

Your stupidity knows no bounders. You claimed that MJ is the Greatest Of All Time partly because Magic played with such good players. That's questioning his greatness, and you are a fool to do so.

Boundaries maybe?

[ElNono]

Your stupidity knows no bounders. You claimed that MJ is the Greatest Of All Time partly because Magic played with such good players. That's questioning his greatness, and you are a fool to do so.

Nope. But I can tell your pretty dumb if that's what you understood from my post.
Goodnight. And stop lying please! We all agree Kobe is playing great.

[ezau]

Don't try and twist my words, ez. Wade is just a role player.

:lmao:lmao You're one crazy son of a gun

[ElNono]

Yup, you're defeated.

LOL... winning in the Internetz... Serious Business! :lmao

[FkLA]

Sure, but then you factor in Kobe 3-Peating, while Duncan has never been able to repeat, and then Kobe's carry at least as much weight at TD's. Almost all repeat champions will tell you, it's much harder to repeat than to do it once

That wasn't even my argument...but ok


Um ok, I guess I'll remember this if Kobe reaches 6 and you guys try to compare it to MJ. Wont be the same since MJ did it 6 times in a row and Kobe didnt. :rolleyes

And nah it wasnt the scenario you described, but it shouldve been since it is the exact same comparison we're doing except we're switching Shaq and Duncan...but as for your original scenario yes Kobe's 4 wouldve carried more weight than Timmy's if they were to have been teammates and Kobe was first fiddle of the team.

[carrao45]

Um ok, I guess I'll remember this if Kobe reaches 6 and you guys try to compare it to MJ. Wont be the same since MJ did it 6 times in a row and Kobe didnt. :rolleyes
MJ 3-Peated twice. He doesn't get a pass for the years he quit to play baseball.

And nah it wasnt the scenario you described, but it shouldve been since it is the exact same comparison we're doing except we're switching Shaq and Duncan...but as for your original scenario yes Kobe's 4 wouldve carried more weight than Timmy's if they were to have been teammates and Kobe was first fiddle of the team.

Agree to disagree then

[NBAfan83]

TBH, in the whole history of NBA, only Kobe and MJ can be considered Marquee players, everyone else are role players, if you think about it. Because these two players never had a bad game, if they shot poorly, they would make up elsewhere, and literally will their teams to win.

Everyone else on every team including the lakers are role players tbh.

[NBAfan83]

I think Kobe's first 3 rings don't count because he won them as a role player, he is only now a marquee player, so he has 1 ring currently, 5 more to tie jordan. He's got some time! :D

[Chieflion]

What? lakaluva and carrao45 are disagreeing with each other but they agree with each other?

[carrao45]

What? lakaluva and carrao45 are disagreeing with each other but they agree with each other?

I don't agree with his point of view at all. Wade a role player?!?! come on now

[Chieflion]

I don't agree with his point of view at all. Wade a role player?!?! come on now
Ok fine. I know LeBron and Dwight are both role players in his eyes.

[TheMACHINE]

Is Nash a Marquee player? If so...would he go down in NY in the same level as Lebron, Kobe or Wade.

See where im going here?

[Killakobe81]

Yall readinfg too much. He said when they WON they did not have a star and when he said star he meant to say on Lebron's level which is true. Star on Lebron's level in NBA history: MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Dr.J, Kobe, (in their primes vince, Grant hill and AI) and maybe Wade. Melo and Dwight just a notch below (not talent wise just "star power" wise)

[Culburn369]

Is Nash a Marquee player?

Only after he frog marched Terry Porter to the tree of woe & crucified him.

[NBAfan83]

Wilt and Jerry west aren't marquee players actually, neither are Magic and Kareem, cuz they play team ball, and thus aren't marquee players.

[pauls931]

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/marquis_daniels-arton20927-240x240.jpg

[Culburn369]

The Whistler

Fartmar
Dick

Now, The Whistler:lol:lol:lol

[Agloco]

Exactly! Barkely, Malone, Stockon, and Iverson are not marquee players, they are role players

:rolleyes

[carrao45]

Ok fine. I know LeBron and Dwight are both role players in his eyes.

Which is beyond stupid.

[carrao45]

This is no surprise, his level of understanding the game is not as great as mine. The Whistler is a role player, get over it.

:lmao I understand it better than you could ever hope to.

[Allanon]

Ewing reeks of failure; constantly schooled by the Dream.

The other two guys were way before my time.

[Culburn369]

Ewing reeks of failure

It's just so true.

Good one, Al.

[Allanon]

Carrao and Luva; I know you guys are bored with this long Laker layoff. :lol

Hopefully you guys can agree to disagree over some Knicks players of decades ago; all Lakerfan here; gents.

[kamikazi_player]

Carrao and Luva; I know you guys are bored with this long Laker layoff. :lol

Hopefully you guys can agree to disagree over some Knicks players of decades ago; all Lakerfan here; gents.
stfu, let these laker fans argue and crumble before our eyes. :)

[Allanon]

stfu, let these laker fans argue and crumble before our eyes. :)

:lol ... I owe it to them, they are kind enough to stop me before I get too crazy vs other Lakerfan too

[kamikazi_player]

Like that team of yours that's struggling to make the playoffs.
lol this guy is a joke, this guy makes fun of the spurs right now when they are losing, yet whenever the lakers lose, he says that it's only november.

[NBAfan83]

I'd rather have a team of role players, than a team with one marquee players and scrubs

[kamikazi_player]

Bullshit, that's the line of those of your ilk. I'm here bashing our players when we lose, while you're afraid to come downstairs and play after a loss. Watch, you'll see tonight.:toast
lmao like that rocket thread u made and said you guys were going to assrape them :lmao

[NBAfan83]

How is that working out for you?

I wouldn't know, I neither play, own or coach an NBA team,

you?

[kamikazi_player]

lol lakaluva is turning into drhouse and 21_blessing right now

[NBAfan83]

Marquee players - Kobe and MJ
Role Players - Dwight, Lebron and Wade
6th man - Stockton, Malone, and Barkley
Benchwarmers - Pau Gasol, Duncan, KG

I think this right about sums this thread

[kamikazi_player]

Marquee players - Kobe and MJ
Role Players - Dwight, Lebron and Wade
6th man - Stockton, Malone, and Barkley
Benchwarmers - Pau Gasol, Duncan, KG

I think this right about sums this thread
Wade is a glorified Joe Johnson so he should be a bench warmer too

[NBAfan83]

I'm a minority owner.

you own season tickets, the only power you have over the laker team is which player to vote for the all-star game tbh...

Heck, the towel boys of the team have more power, wisdom and right to talk about the team than the way you do, sir.

[ffadicted]

lol this thread is garbage

[NBAfan83]

Without me and the fans, the Lakers don't exist.

You don't speak for all the fans though sir, so I don't know how many laker fans actually take your stance. From Carrao's post, I suspect your kind of in the minority.

So if a few fair weather fans leave the laker fan base, the lakers will still be there.

[Allanon]

you own season tickets, the only power you have over the laker team is which player to vote for the all-star game tbh...

Heck, the towel boys of the team have more power, wisdom and right to talk about the team than the way you do, sir.

The Lakers, like any business; is run on dollars and cents.

The Lakers would never be able to afford a $120 million roster without support and money from the fans.

Laker success is directly attributable to fans buying the $10 nachos, $10 beers, parking passes, tickets, etc.

We fans fund the roster and expect management to do the right things with our payments. Kind of like an investment manager.

[carrao45]

Hey kid listen, your knowledge and understanding of the game is dwarfed by what I know. You lose no matter what you say. Its like comparing taste in women, you may think your chic is a dime piece, when I think she's a nickel. If my taste and standards are above yours, then how can you relate? The Whistler may be a marquee player for you, but for me, he's just a glorified Joe. I gave you my list of true marquee players, everyone else is just looking up. Don't reply to this, BG, just take it on the chin and be happy.

Again no logic for Wade/LeBron/Howard etc. not being marquee players. Especially Wade, Finals MVP and all

[carrao45]

Carrao and Luva; I know you guys are bored with this long Laker layoff. :lol

Hopefully you guys can agree to disagree over some Knicks players of decades ago; all Lakerfan here; gents.

I never once said anything about Knicks players being Marquee or not Marquee.



Not once

[carrao45]

lol lakaluva is turning into drhouse and 21_blessing right now

Only worse

[carrao45]

You don't speak for all the fans though sir, so I don't know how many laker fans actually take your stance. From Carrao's post, I suspect your kind of in the minority.

So if a few fair weather fans leave the laker fan base, the lakers will still be there.

Any group that thinks Wade and Dwight are "Role Players" is in the minority

[carrao45]

:lol

Carrao is the fair weather fan. I was sneaking Value-Packs in the GWF when most of you knew nothing abut the sport.

What's the basis for that claim?

[ezau]

Laker fan vs a Laker fan. I love it. Right now, carrao is owning luva. LMAO

[carrao45]

This statement alone tells me that you have no clue what a superstar player really is. I could have taken 2006 Arenas and gotten the same results Wade gave. Howard is barely an all-star.

Bold: Debatable, but most likely no

Underlined: :lmao

[TheSullyMonster]

Gotta agree on a completely healthy Wade and Arenas being comparable. And on Howard's lack of skill&dominance being sad.

Still trying to figure out how players that won, MVP's, are HoF'ers and what not aren't marquee though.

[ChrisRichards]

There are plenty of players that have a great season here or there. Nash won B2B MVP's, on the best team in the NBA, but how many titles does he own?
How many titles does Kobe has without having a legitimate big man?

[ChrisRichards]

Wade, 18 points, 19 shots tonight, faggot.
Im starting to like this guy. Feisty. :lol

[z0sa]

Lakaluva honestly brought down lakerfan IQ

[Culburn369]

nash won b2b mvp's, on the best team in the nba, but how many titles does he own?

o.

[wanggi]

o.

0 & 41 > 0 & 54

You never won an NBA championship either cubby.:lol

[Culburn369]

You won 15 NBA championships cubby.:lobt2:

Danka, Zip.

[carrao45]

Do you even watch basketball? Seriously?

2005/2006 Wade put up 27/6/5

Arenas put up 29/6/4

Both guys are chuckers that don't make their teammate better, and both are role players.

The only reason Howard gets any attention at all is because there are no good Centers in the league. His footwork is atrocious, and after six season in the league, his offensive game is no better than when he first entered the league. For christs sake, even that lazy bum Bynum will be an all-star this year. The league is at an all-time low concerning centers, and Howard is leading the way.


Chuckers don't shoot 49% like Wade did last year. Role players don't win Finals MVP's.


And while I agree Howard's offensive game is weak. However his defense and Rebounding are superb.

[Cane]

Kobe's comment was idiotic and Lakers fans are dumbass parrots for agreeing with it.

[Culburn369]

The comments were alarmingly albeit refreshingly out of the realm of marching orders/talking points standardized via NYC & Stern, but, they're very arguable in the micro and dead on accurate in the macro.

[Cry Havoc]

lol this thread is garbage

[IronMexican]

I think ChrisRichards(MiamiHeat) is more a Kobe hater than a Heat fan.

[ChrisRichards]

I think ChrisRichards(MiamiHeat) is more a Kobe hater than a Heat fan.
Pacquioaoa owns mexicans:lol

[TheSullyMonster]

How many titles does Kobe has without having a legitimate big man?

Who, not named Michael Jordan, has any titles without a legit big man?:rolleyes

I'm not a big Kobe fan, but come on.

[dbreiden83080]

You have so much to learn, kid. There is a reason why no one talks about Ewing, Walt, and Willis when you are talking about all-time greats. Ewing should have been that, but he sort of failed to be the guy they thought he was coming out of college.

The main reason Ewing did not win at least one ring was Jordan, you know the best player of all time, the same Jordan that Kobe on his best day is not even half as good as..

Knicks lost to the Bulls 5 times in the playoffs in the Ewing Era, pushing them to 7 games in 1992.. The 92 and 94 Knicks were probably the best of the Ewing era and he lost to the best player of all time and a team led by Hakeem Who historically proved to be the better player. But make no mistake about it, Ewing had a great career. If Kobe and his bunch played MJ and the Bulls best teams they'd be beat soundly. Kobe played with a better all time Center in Shaq en route to his first 3 titles and Shaq was in his prime when that happened.. The best all time player Ewing probably played with was Mark Jackson and they were only together for 5 seasons, most of which were not supported by the cast Ewing would later enjoy..