He seems very remorseful for what he did...

[Clandestino]

Inmate Recites Poem Minutes Before Execution
LAST UPDATE: 4/21/2005 11:26:46 AM
Posted By: Dale Blasingame

An animated and upbeat condemned murderer Douglas Roberts went to his death Wednesday night smiling and with a poem.

Strapped to the Texas death chamber gurney in Huntsville, Roberts was asked if he had any last words before lethal drugs were pumped into his arms. He replied: "I've been hanging around this Popsicle stand way too long. ... When I die, bury me deep, lay two speakers at my feet, put some headphones on my head and rock and roll me when I'm dead."

The 42-year-old was executed tonight for abducting and fatally stabbing a San Antonio man whose car he stole nine years ago while he was high on cocaine. As five relatives of victim Jerry Lewis Velez watched through a window, Roberts repeatedly smiled and mouthed "I loved you" to friends watching through another window.

Once the drugs took effect, however, he gasped and sputtered. Eight minutes later he was pronounced dead, making him the fifth Texas inmate executed this year.

[JoeChalupa]

Poetic justice?

[gophergeorge]

Poetic justice?


JC will be here all week, Ladies and Gentlemen.... and please remember to tip your waitresses...

:)

[bigzak25]

only 5th this year? that's suprising....


this is a good website for texas executions, the last statments, and offenses...

link (http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm)

[Clandestino]

bad ass link!

[bigzak25]

Florida Prosecutors Say Lunsford Was Buried Alive (http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050420185009990008)


http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/02/06/20050225091609990012


TAMPA, Fla. (April 21) - A 9-year-old girl who was found dead last month had been raped and bound and may have been buried alive behind the mobile home where her alleged killer was living, state prosecutors said in newly released documents.

Jessica Lunsford's body was found March 19 buried, sitting and clutching a purple stuffed dolphin just 150 yards from her house in Homosassa, about 60 miles north of Tampa, according to the documents released Wednesday.

The body was wrapped in two plastic trash bags knotted at her head and feet in a grave covered by a mound of leaves, the state attorney's office said in the documents.

Jessica was found wearing shorts and a shirt - different from the pink nightgown her family said she was wearing when they reported her missing Feb. 24, the documents show.

Detective David Strickland wrote that Jessica's hands appeared to be bound in front of her with speaker wire. Strickland also wrote that a medical examiner noted signs of sexual battery.

Jessica died of asphyxiation, according to a coroner's report. A convicted sex offender, John Evander Couey, 46, is charged in her slaying. He has pleaded not guilty.

Officials said they believe Jessica may have been alive in Couey's home while police and volunteers searched for her. After she was killed, Couey fled to Georgia.

A message left for Couey's attorney was not immediately returned Wednesday evening.

Couey told investigators where to find the grave. He has a home elsewhere in Homosassa, but sometimes stayed with a half-sister in the mobile home where Jessica's body was found, authorities said.

Prosecutors said Couey told them his half-sister and two others living in the mobile home did not know he had kidnapped the girl and kept her there.

Clothing taken from Couey's bedroom appeared to have blood on them, and a mattress and bedding had similar stains, though there was no evidence Jessica had been in the room, according to the documents.

04-21-05 15:29 EDT

---------------------------------

makes me sick to my stomach...:cry

i want this bastard to burn in hell for all eternity...i still support the death penalty, but if he would suffer more and be killed, raped etc in general population, i'd be all for it....

[The Ressurrected One]

Let's take another vote on the Death Penalty.

[samikeyp]

Personally in a case like this I think a tit-for-tat rule should be in order. He should be buried alive.

[MannyIsGod]

Let's take another vote on the Death Penalty.
Lets, I still feel the same way.

[The Ressurrected One]

Lets, I still feel the same way.
Of course you do. And, if this were your daughter?

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/02/06/20050225091609990012

[MannyIsGod]

Do emotions make for good rational and logical thought?

I don't know, chances are I'd want to kill the guy, but chances are that I'd stick to my beliefs as well.

[desflood]

Someday Manny, when you have kids, odds are you'll change your mind about a lot of things.

[Spurminator]

Why is it that so many of you have trouble separating emotions from law?

Being the parent of a victim makes you no more an expert on the Death Penalty than being pregnant makes you an expert on abortion.

I wouldn't shed a tear if this guy got the beating of his life and burned in hell, but quit trumpeting every gruesome murder as though somehow THAT's the one that's going to make everyone who is against Capital Punishment somehow reconsider their stance.

[The Ressurrected One]

Do emotions make for good rational and logical thought?

I don't know, chances are I'd want to kill the guy, but chances are that I'd stick to my beliefs as well.
And then, the guy you didn't have the conscience to kill, get's out of prison because of some technicality or because he's "rehabilitated" or escapes or whatever and meets this little girl:

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/02/06/20050225091609990012

How do you feel then?

[The Ressurrected One]

Why is it that so many of you have trouble separating emotions from law?

Being the parent of a victim makes you no more an expert on the Death Penalty than being pregnant makes you an expert on abortion.

I wouldn't shed a tear if this guy got the beating of his life and burned in hell, but quit trumpeting every gruesome murder as though somehow THAT's the one that's going to make everyone who is against Capital Punishment somehow reconsider their stance.
Maybe someday they'll realize that some people just aren't worth the risk of keeping alive.

[Spurminator]

And then, the guy you didn't have the conscience to kill, get's out of prison because of some technicality or because he's "rehabilitated" or escapes or whatever and meets this little girl:

Then fix the technicalities. You don't kill people because your prison and judicial systems suck. That's lazy.

[Clandestino]

mr non-violence manny says this guy should not be harmed even though he raped and murdered a little girl, but he was ready to fight with "the writer" because he was telling him shit about his girlfriend... makes perfect sense to me!

[desflood]

Evil should be destroyed. Does anybody disagree with that? Now, before someone argues that what is evil can be interpreted differently by different minds, does anybody here think that killing children is not evil?

[MannyIsGod]

mr non-violence manny says this guy should not be harmed even though he raped and murdered a little girl, but he was ready to fight with "the writer" because he was telling him shit about his girlfriend... makes perfect sense to me!
When did I say I was going to fight anyone? :huh :huh

[MannyIsGod]

You're right Des, we have to destroy the Dark Side. Anyone know where we can find Luke Skywalker?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not going to do this arguement again. I'm not in the mood to spin in circles today. I simply said I hadn't changed my mind based on that case. And I haven't.

[Clandestino]

When did I say I was going to fight anyone? :huh :huh

from your history of always fighting... i remember reading about some basketball game where you almost got into a fight...and then you telling thewriter to be a man and show up to a gtg... if you trying to say it is so you could have a nice beer together vs get into something you're so full of shit..

[The Ressurrected One]

Then fix the technicalities. You don't kill people because your prison and judicial systems suck. That's lazy.
Well, until it's fixed, I'm for killin' 'em. Save the Children!

[desflood]

You're right Des, we have to destroy the Dark Side. Anyone know where we can find Luke Skywalker?
Sweet Jesus, do you ever give me a headache (sigh). So, do you not believe in the concept of evil, or do you just not care that it's out there? Out of curiosity.

[MannyIsGod]

Number of physical fights I've been in at any FSP tourney (or when FSP people are around for that matter) - 0

I simply pointed out that he doesn't have the courage to show up and say those things in person, and he doesn't. That doesn't have anything to do with fighting.

I have about as much a history of fighting as you have a history of being right. In otherwords, none.

[samikeyp]

I can vouch for Manny....at a GTG he would sit and have a beer and talk things out.

[MannyIsGod]

Sweet Jesus, do you ever give me a headache (sigh). So, do you not believe in the concept of evil, or do you just not care that it's out there? Out of curiosity.
I hate the word evil. It implies an almost supernatural quality to whatever it is used to describe. As if someone was inherently bad and never had a chance of being different.

I believe there are evil actions. And I believe many, actually, most people are capable of such actions under certain types of circumstances.

I hesitate calling a person evil without knowing what could have possibly made them that way. The outcome of a human equation is much more complex to be labeled with a word like evil, or good for that matter.

So, do I believe in evil? It really depends on how you define it.

[samikeyp]

Phil Jackson...now that's evil. :)

[The Ressurrected One]

I hate the word evil. It implies an almost supernatural quality to whatever it is used to describe. As if someone was inherently bad and never had a chance of being different.

I believe there are evil actions. And I believe many, actually, most people are capable of such actions under certain types of circumstances.

I hesitate calling a person evil without knowing what could have possibly made them that way. The outcome of a human equation is much more complex to be labeled with a word like evil, or good for that matter.

So, do I believe in evil? It really depends on how you define it.

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/02/06/20050225091609990012
What happened to this girl is evil and it was perpetrated by an evil person. There...defined.

[desflood]

Main Entry: 1evil
Pronunciation: 'E-v&l, British often and US also 'E-(")vil
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): evil·er or evil·ler; evil·est or evil·lest
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English yfel; akin to Old High German ubil evil
1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>
2 a archaic : INFERIOR b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE <an evil odor> c : DISAGREEABLE <woke late and in an evil temper>
3 a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS <the evil institution of slavery> b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY

Doesn't sound supernatural at all to me.

[MannyIsGod]

I have a question for you Yoni...

Why did the he commit the act?

[MannyIsGod]

Main Entry: 1evil
Pronunciation: 'E-v&l, British often and US also 'E-(")vil
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): evil·er or evil·ler; evil·est or evil·lest
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English yfel; akin to Old High German ubil evil
1 a : morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>
2 a archaic : INFERIOR b : causing discomfort or repulsion : OFFENSIVE <an evil odor> c : DISAGREEABLE <woke late and in an evil temper>
3 a : causing harm : PERNICIOUS <the evil institution of slavery> b : marked by misfortune : UNLUCKY

Doesn't sound supernatural at all to me.
Des, did you miss the sinful and wicked portions of that? Those 2 point directly back to a Christian meaning of the word were Satan represents all that is evil, etc etc.

[The Ressurrected One]

I have a question for you Yoni...

Why did the he commit the act?
It doesn't matter.

Oh, and to clear the air...I really am not Yonivore. Yonivore was two people for about the last 3 or 4 months of his life...one of which is now dead. I'm half of Yonivore, before me, he was much more intelligent.

[MannyIsGod]

It doesn't matter.

How can you say it doesn't matter? Wouldn't knowing the reason murders are commited aid in being proactive and stoping them?

[MannyIsGod]

Shit, would ANYONE care to anwer why he commited the murder?

[desflood]

So, I gave you an official definition of the word evil. Morally reprehensible. You don't think child killers are morally reprehensible? Let me ask you this: What is your definition of evil, if you don't like mine?

[The Ressurrected One]

Shit, would ANYONE care to anwer why he commited the murder?
Nope.

Wouldn't knowing the reason murders are commited aid in being proactive and stoping them?
Killing murderers would stop them from murdering a lot quicker than trying to understand murderers.

[desflood]

Shit, would ANYONE care to anwer why he commited the murder?
The guy this thread was originally about? I checked a while back. He was high on cocaine, didn't know where he was, and wanted a car to get back home. So he killed another man for his.

[The Ressurrected One]

If I ever committed such a heinous crime it would be because I'd lost my mind and was no longer myself or useful in society...and, if there were any vestige of sanity left in my body, I'd want to die after committing such an act.

[MannyIsGod]

So, I gave you an official definition of the word evil. Morally reprehensible. You don't think child killers are morally reprehensible? Let me ask you this: What is your definition of evil, if you don't like mine?
Of course I think child killers are morally reprehensible. Evil implies more and other things, otherwise we'd just use morally reprehensible all the time.

Why are you so insitent in using a word that has such a broad and sweeping meaning instead of using the actual meaning you wish to apply in this scenario?

[desflood]

Texas inmate executed for 1996 murder
By Michael Graczyk, Associated Press Writer | April 20, 2005

HUNTSVILLE, Texas -- A convicted murderer who said he first tried cocaine at the age of 10 was executed Wednesday for abducting and fatally stabbing a man during a drug-induced haze nine years ago.

ADVERTISEMENT

Douglas Roberts, 42, was upbeat and animated in the seconds before the lethal drugs were administered.

"I've been hanging around this popsicle stand way too long," he said. "When I die, bury me deep, lay two speakers at my feet, put some headphones on my head and rock 'n' roll me when I'm dead."

"I'll see you in heaven some day," he added.

At his trial, Roberts told his attorney to call no defense witnesses and pick a jury that favored the death penalty. His jury deliberated two hours before convicting him and the following day decided he should be put to death.

Roberts was convicted of killing Jerry Velez, 40, who was abducted in San Antonio in May 1996.

Roberts, a machinist, had just robbed a San Antonio convenience store and stole a customer's car at knifepoint. Lost in an unfamiliar place and "stoned out of my mind," Roberts said he spotted Velez walking to a row of cars parked outside an apartment complex.

The pair drove to a dirt road in a remote area about 30 miles northwest of San Antonio, where Roberts and Velez scuffled.

Roberts was armed with a Bowie knife, and an autopsy showed Velez was stabbed five times, had ribs broken, a lung punctured and head injuries. Evidence at Roberts' trial showed the victim had been run over with a car as many as three times.

Roberts drove back toward Austin where he called police from a pay phone and told a dispatcher about the slaying, then waited for authorities to pick him up.

Roberts was to have shared the death chamber Wednesday with another condemned prisoner, Milton Mathis, for a rare back-to-back execution. But Mathis won a reprieve Tuesday from the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals.

Roberts was the fifth Texas prisoner put to death this year.

[Clandestino]

Shit, would ANYONE care to anwer why he commited the murder?

manny, you are so fucking dumb sometimes.. who gives a fuck why he did it.. he DID IT.. that is all that truly matters.. his reasons for doing it will not bring her back, nor should they spare his life... no REASON can be given to spare his pathetic life...

[desflood]

Sorry, I take that back. He already had a car. He killed the guy just for shits and grins.

[Clandestino]

I hate the word evil. It implies an almost supernatural quality to whatever it is used to describe. As if someone was inherently bad and never had a chance of being different.

I believe there are evil actions. And I believe many, actually, most people are capable of such actions under certain types of circumstances.

I hesitate calling a person evil without knowing what could have possibly made them that way. The outcome of a human equation is much more complex to be labeled with a word like evil, or good for that matter.

So, do I believe in evil? It really depends on how you define it.

BILL FUCKING CLINTON! :lol

[desflood]

Of course I think child killers are morally reprehensible. Evil implies more and other things, otherwise we'd just use morally reprehensible all the time.

Why are you so insitent in using a word that has such a broad and sweeping meaning instead of using the actual meaning you wish to apply in this scenario?
Okay, here you go: I think killing someone because you're high and you have nothing better to do is evil.

[MannyIsGod]

The guy this thread was originally about? I checked a while back. He was high on cocaine, didn't know where he was, and wanted a car to get back home. So he killed another man for his.
Actually, I was talking more about the guy RO brought up.

But the point I was going to make in the long run was that there are real factors that have an effect on the actions of a person including things such as chemical factors (hormoes etc) and sociological history (the envirnment the person developed in) just to name a couple.

If you put a "non-evil" person through those same factors, would they perform an "evil" act down the road.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to go in circles today, and I meant it. I've no interest in discussing the death penalty anymore in here.

But I will comment on this:



manny, you are so fucking dumb sometimes.. who gives a fuck why he did it.. he DID IT.. that is all that truly matters.. his reasons for doing it will not bring her back,

Yes, it's ME who's dumb. If you don't think finding out what makes a person into a killer is important in order to prevent actions like this in the future, then you are even one notch further down the intelligence ladder than I thought. And as it was, I wasn't putting you on a very high peg.

[The Ressurrected One]

manny, you are so fucking dumb sometimes.. who gives a fuck why he did it.. he DID IT.. that is all that truly matters.. his reasons for doing it will not bring her back, nor should they spare his life... no REASON can be given to spare his pathetic life...
I would add, not only did he do it, he would do it again, given the chance and the only way to insure he never has that chance again, is to put him to death.

We can figure out why later, on our own schedule, he doesn't need to be part of that discussion...except posthumously, of course.

[Clandestino]

Number of physical fights I've been in at any FSP tourney (or when FSP people are around for that matter) - 0

I simply pointed out that he doesn't have the courage to show up and say those things in person, and he doesn't. That doesn't have anything to do with fighting.

I have about as much a history of fighting as you have a history of being right. In otherwords, none.

oh really? do you? from the quotes here you always trying to start physical altercations...


Damn, Manny is still talking. I've never seen someone talk mess on behalf of the other team.

Nice.


His name is Austin. He was on Useruser666's team. He and Manny had a slight "confrontation" after Manny called him lazy and a bad teammate after Manny's team had just beat his team.


Manny is a fat lil bitch who couldnt play ball if hes meaningless life depended on it. And hes lucky I didnt beat tha hell out is big eared ass for talkin so much shit! He shoulda just won the game, walked off the court & shut tha hell up! Tha only reason he talks so much shit is cuz hes tryin to make up for his lack of size! Kiss my ass big eared fatboy!... And fuck urbody thats on this site cuz you suck dick!


Manny picking fights with somebody...NO WAY!


As for the Manny thing, every basketball tournament we've had someone on Manny's team or Manny himself always gets in some kind of altercation or huge controversy over foul calls.

[The Ressurrected One]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to go in circles today, and I meant it. I've no interest in discussing the death penalty anymore in here.

But I will comment on this:



Yes, it's ME who's dumb. If you don't think finding out what makes a person into a killer is important in order to prevent actions like this in the future, then you are even one notch further down the intelligence ladder than I thought. And as it was, I wasn't putting you on a very high peg.
You don't need to keep him alive to figure out why he did it. If his participation in that research isn't secured during the many years of incarceration while awaiting appeal, keeping him alive past his expiration date isn't going to help.

[Clandestino]

Yes, it's ME who's dumb. If you don't think finding out what makes a person into a killer is important in order to prevent actions like this in the future, then you are even one notch further down the intelligence ladder than I thought. And as it was, I wasn't putting you on a very high peg.

yes, you are dumb, bc like RESURRECTED said.. he had ALREADY committed this sort of crime before and was still doing it.. had he been killed the first time an innocent little girl would never have been buried alive...

[MannyIsGod]

You really can't read can you? Where does anyone there say anything about a physical alltercation?

Fuck, Mike's already told you otherwise.

Ask away if you want. Find where I've do so much as lay a finger on anyone.

[desflood]

Actually, I was talking more about the guy RO brought up.

But the point I was going to make in the long run was that there are real factors that have an effect on the actions of a person including things such as chemical factors (hormoes etc) and sociological history (the envirnment the person developed in) just to name a couple.

If you put a "non-evil" person through those same factors, would they perform an "evil" act down the road.
There's a million-dollar question! I think of it this way: Somebody who can rape and kill a child, under any circumstances, has no conscience. Regardless of the factors of their life; poverty, prior abuse in their life, etc. Now, there are people who go through the exact same thing but who have a conscience, so they don't do bad things to other people. You're back to the whole issue of free will. You have a choice to rape and kill a child, or to not rape and kill a child. People who can do something like that without a qualm qualify as deserving of death in my book, because even if they repent afterward, they will be capable of doing it again.

[MannyIsGod]

You don't need to keep him alive to figure out why he did it. If his participation in that research isn't secured during the many years of incarceration while awaiting appeal, keeping him alive past his expiration date isn't going to help.
I don't believe I in any way tied what I was saying with the death penalty. My opposition to it is stedfast and in no way has anything to do with me asking the questions on the actions.

[MannyIsGod]

There's a million-dollar question! I think of it this way: Somebody who can rape and kill a child, under any circumstances, has no conscience. Regardless of the factors of their life; poverty, prior abuse in their life, etc. Now, there are people who go through the exact same thing but who have a conscience, so they don't do bad things to other people. You're back to the whole issue of free will. You have a choice to rape and kill a child, or to not rape and kill a child. People who can do something like that without a qualm qualify as deserving of death in my book, because even if they repent afterward, they will be capable of doing it again.
And yet you can't see how I connect the word evil and it's usage to a supernatrual meaning?

Well, by what your saying there, a conscience is not something that can be effected by your environment and exsists regardless of how you develop.

Where exactly does it come from?

[MannyIsGod]

yes, you are dumb, bc like RESURRECTED said.. he had ALREADY committed this sort of crime before and was still doing it.. had he been killed the first time an innocent little girl would never have been buried alive...
And once again, you made a connection I did not.

[Clandestino]

manny will never change his mind in this message board no matter what.. even if his gf or mother were killed, in here he would say, "no, don't kill him...let's find out why, but we must spare his life.the death penalty is wrong."

[MannyIsGod]

What did I say on the first page of this thread, Clan?

:lmao

I wish I could meet the teacher who taught you to read. I hope he/she is no longer teaching.

[MannyIsGod]

You're lucky this is a message board, Clandestino. Or else combine my lack of patience, violent history, and your adament stupidity I would probably be kicking your ass right about now.

[desflood]

And yet you can't see how I connect the word evil and it's usage to a supernatrual meaning?

Well, by what your saying there, a conscience is not something that can be effected by your environment and exsists regardless of how you develop.

Where exactly does it come from?
Your conscience (or lack thereof) is actually controlled by your brain. The Id, Ego and Superego. Have to go back to junior high biology for all that.

And I can see where you'd make the connection between evil and the supernatural. But it's evidence is too tangible in the world today to dismiss it as Christian superstition. It's real, you see it everywhere. There's nothing supernatural about it.

[The Ressurrected One]

You're lucky this is a message board, Clandestino. Or else combine my lack of patience, violent history, and your adament stupidity I would probably be kicking your ass right about now.
I can see why you're opposed to it now. With that kind of admission and attitude, you may end up on death row some day.

[Clandestino]

What did I say on the first page of this thread, Clan?

:lmao

I wish I could meet the teacher who taught you to read. I hope he/she is no longer teaching.




Of course you do. And, if this were your daughter?




Do emotions make for good rational and logical thought?

I don't know, chances are I'd want to kill the guy, but chances are that I'd stick to my beliefs as well.

that is what you said fatboy...

[desflood]

The Id
The Id (Latin, "it" in English, "Es" in the original German) represented primary process thinking – our most primitive need gratification type thoughts. The Id, Freud stated, constitutes part of one's unconscious mind. It is organized around primitive instinctual urges of sexuality, aggression and the desire for instant gratification or release . Freud borrowed the term Id from the "Book of the Id" by Georg Groddeck, a pathfinder of psychosomatic.

[edit]The Superego
The Superego ("ܢer-Ich" in the original German, roughly "super-I" in English) represented our conscience and counteracted the Id with a primitive and unconscious sense of morality. This primitive morality is to be distinguished from an ethical sense, which is an egoic property, since ethics requires an eligibility for deliberation on matters of fairness or justice. The Superego, Freud stated, is the moral agent that links both our conscious and unconscious minds. The Superego stands in opposition to the desires of the Id. The Superego is part of the unconscious mind, and based upon the internationalization of the world view, norms and mores a child absorbs from parents surrounding environment at a young age. As the conscience, it is a primitive or child-based knowledge of right and wrong, maintaining taboos specific to a child's internalization of parental culture.

Freud considered the Oedipus Complex to be a formative stage in the development of the superego.

[edit]The Ego
In Freud's view the Ego stands in between the Id and the Superego to balance our primitive needs and our moral beliefs and taboos. ("Ego" means "I" in Latin; the original German word Freud coined was "Ich".) He stated that the Ego consists of our conscious sense of self and world, a highly structured set of unconscious defenses that are central in defining both individual differences in character or personality, the symptoms and inhibitions that define the neuroses, and ultimately serving as the executive branch of the mind which leads to action. Relying on experience, a healthy Ego provides the ability to adapt to reality and interact with the outside world in a way that accommodates both Id and Superego. Freud believed the energy used to run the ego (such as to dissolve reality, moral and neurotic anxiety) was derived from the Id in the form of cathexis and from the Superego in the form of anticathexis.

[MannyIsGod]

What? Horrible actions? Yes, those are everywhere, and I would never be able to deny that.

But the use of the word evil, especialy in propoganda and speeches, is ridiculous.

What do you think carries more weight when Bush speaks:

Those terrorists are moraly reprehensible.

Or

Those terrorists are evil.

It carries a different weight and a different meaning because it implies that those people aren't byproducts of actions, but inherently evil. I'm not sure ANYONE is inherently evil but I'm sure that "evil" people can be created.

Anyhow, my point was that your conscious, or lack thereof, is effected by many things. So, if having a consience is what seperates killers from non killers, then it can be said that many things can make someone much more likely to become a killer. That there are actual causes to what makes these men into monsters. And if there are causes, we can find them and not only prevent them, but maybe also overcome them.

[MannyIsGod]

that is what you said fatboy...:lmao

NO SHIT!

AND IT TOOK YOU 3 FUCKING PAGES TO FIGURE IT OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Ressurrected One]

And if there are causes, we can find them and not only prevent them, but maybe also overcome them.
That doesn't require keeping the killer alive.

We don't trap bears and study them when the wander into campgrounds and kill. We shoot them and study other bears to see how we can keep them out of campgrounds and from killing people.

Murderers aren't wont to cooperate with such studies and, in many cases, actively work to thwart or taint or sabotage such studies. In my mind, the person that's already murdered is worthless when trying to decide why they did so.

[MannyIsGod]

That doesn't require keeping the killer alive.

We don't trap bears and study them when the wander into campgrounds and kill. We shoot them and study other bears to see how we can keep them out of campgrounds and from killing people.

Murderers aren't wont to cooperate with such studies and, in many cases, actively work to thwart or taint or sabotage such studies. In my mind, the person that's already murdered is worthless when trying to decide why they did so.
I'm not making an antideath penalty arguement here.

Actualy, for as many times as I've been in the middle of death penalty arguemnts here, people still don't understand that my opposition to it stems mainly from the likely errors that result in people being killed that shouldn't be killed.

I'm even on the record of saying that I wouldn't oppose a system that was 100% effective.

So, I trust you can figure out what leads my feelings of opposition to capital punishment.

[Clandestino]

You're lucky this is a message board, Clandestino. Or else combine my lack of patience, violent history, and your adament stupidity I would probably be kicking your ass right about now.

that would be nice...

http://img147.echo.cx/img147/1237/manny1ei.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[MannyIsGod]

You can keep posting Clan. I'm not really going to kick your ass.

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

I notice that when I make Clan feel stupid, he falls back on his poor Photoshop skills.

[Jekka]

Your conscience (or lack thereof) is actually controlled by your brain. The Id, Ego and Superego. Have to go back to junior high biology for all that.

That's Freud, not biology, and Freud was a nymphomaniacal idiot that only gets more contestation to his theories as time goes on.

[Clandestino]

I notice that when I make Clan feel stupid, he falls back on his poor Photoshop skills.

manny, why should i feel stupid? i'm not the dumbass arguing for the life of some rapist, pedophile, murderer to be spared...

i'm also not the dumbass who is trying to argue the word evil like bill clinton..

[MannyIsGod]

manny, why should i feel stupid?
No reason. You're a genius. A true predigree of intelligence.

:lol :lol :lol

You did give me some good laughs in this thread. Which is good, because I think I was on the verge of one of my violent attacks again. No telling who's ass I would have kicked today.

[Clandestino]

No reason. You're a genius. A true predigree of intelligence.

:lol :lol :lol

You did give me some good laughs in this thread. Which is good, because I think I was on the verge of one of my violent attacks again. No telling who's ass I would have kicked today.

it is funny how you are trying to laugh off that you really are always getting into confrontations... that is called denial.. are your ears that big they get in the way of seeing what everyone else sees? i posted comments from 5 different people who say you are always getting into altercations... maybe you're just acting tough and don't really want to get into a fight... but then why bow up all the time?

[Spurminator]

I believe in evil, but I believe it is irrelevant to secular law.

[MannyIsGod]

it is funny how you are trying to laugh off that you really are always getting into confrontations... that is called denial.. are your ears that big they get in the way of seeing what everyone else sees? i posted comments from 5 different people who say you are always getting into altercations... maybe you're just acting tough and don't really want to get into a fight... but then why bow up all the time?
I never denied anything besides getting into physical fights, because you said I said I was going to fight.

Clandestino, this is a perfect example of someone who has incredibly low reading comprehension trying to piece together the personality and actions of someone they have never met from selected bits and pieces of what other people say about them.

You completely ignored what Mike had to say in this very thread because it didn't fit your picture of the person I am. You try to fit me into the molds of people YOU understand but that's never going to work because I'm not a simple person that you can simply classify in an easy way.

I'll explain it to you, so maybe you won't look so damn stupid when talking about me. I don't hold out hope for you to understand what I'm saying because I've already overloaded your brain with multisyllable words, but I'll try.

When we play basketball, I yell. I argue over foul calls. I told Austin he was a bad teammate, and he freaked out. I never once did anything overtly agressive torwards him.

There was one time while playing basketball that I came pretty close to being in a fight when FSP people were around, (I've explained this to you before, but your dense, maybe it'll seep in this time) but that was because 2 200+ lb men decided to throw around my 140 lb teammate and I wasn't going to stand there and let that shit happen. But I didn't so much as push anyone. I was pretty sure these guys were going to kick my ass but I didn't want them pushing Brian around and guess what, they backed down.

Actually, I've stopped at least one fight at a GTG from happening and if you want to know about that you can ask people about the time Kris was going to kill Mongo.

[Clandestino]

I never denied anything besides getting into physical fights, because you said I said I was going to fight.

Clandestino, this is a perfect example of someone who has incredibly low reading comprehension trying to piece together the personality and actions of someone they have never met from selected bits and pieces of what other people say about them.

You completely ignored what Mike had to say in this very thread because it didn't fit your picture of the person I am. You try to fit me into the molds of people YOU understand but that's never going to work because I'm not a simple person that you can simply classify in an easy way.

I'll explain it to you, so maybe you won't look so damn stupid when talking about me. I don't hold out hope for you to understand what I'm saying because I've already overloaded your brain with multisyllable words, but I'll try.

When we play basketball, I yell. I argue over foul calls. I told Austin he was a bad teammate, and he freaked out. I never once did anything overtly agressive torwards him.

There was one time while playing basketball that I came pretty close to being in a fight when FSP people were around, (I've explained this to you before, but your dense, maybe it'll seep in this time) but that was because 2 200+ lb men decided to throw around my 140 lb teammate and I wasn't going to stand there and let that shit happen. But I didn't so much as push anyone. I was pretty sure these guys were going to kick my ass but I didn't want them pushing Brian around and guess what, they backed down.

Actually, I've stopped at least one fight at a GTG from happening and if you want to know about that you can ask people about the time Kris was going to kill Mongo.

so, to make a long story short.. you're just a big-eared pussy? i have known that all along..

i must add.. who acts like they are super fucking smart, but doesn't have anything to show for it except low paying jobs, a shared apartment, no vehicle, etc...

yes, you are indeed clever...

[MannyIsGod]

Yes that's exactly it.

This message is hidden because Clandestino is on your ignore list.

[Clandestino]

Yes that's exactly it.

This message is hidden because Clandestino is on your ignore list.

that is pretty funny smart guy... i just love how all the guys who think they are so smart and talk all the shit have nothing to show for it... they just regurgitate shit they have read and never done anything in their life..

[Guru of Nothing]

talk all the shit have nothing to show for it

That's just about everyone who posts here, including yourself.

[Clandestino]

That's just about everyone who posts here, including yourself.

you don't know me, nor do i know you.. i haven't seen you post your life story on here like manny... you don't know what accomplishments i have or do not have...

however, i am just referring to manny..he acts all high and mighty...acts like he is some scholar and knows everything about everything... i say, if he were that fucking smart he would not be doing bs jobs, sharing an apartment, etc...

[desflood]

That's Freud, not biology, and Freud was a nymphomaniacal idiot that only gets more contestation to his theories as time goes on.
Right you are, sorry. Distractions all around here! Some scientists still subscribe to his theories, however.

[Jekka]

so, to make a long story short.. you're just a big-eared pussy? i have known that all along..

i must add.. who acts like they are super fucking smart, but doesn't have anything to show for it except low paying jobs, a shared apartment, no vehicle, etc...

yes, you are indeed clever...

I'm not going to say this because I don't think Manny can defend himself- quite the opposite, I think he's done a pretty good job considering how idiotically close-minded you are. But I do want to say that you're being a pretty big hypocrite yourself. You condemn him for getting into fights that haven't happened, but then you come back around and acknowledge that they didn't happen, but call him a pussy.

And you had to get personal first apparently - and you had to even bring me into it - from another conversation whos argument was about as intelligible as this one. I resent the fact that you can't seem to even stay on topic to insult one person. I would get personal right back at you, but quite frankly, I hope that the people close to you are less worthy of the insult.

[Jekka]

Right you are, sorry. Distractions all around here! Some scientists still subscribe to his theories, however.

Eh, there will always be people that want to argue that psychology is as simple and sexual as Freud says it is. The way it looks to be developing now, though, is that psychology is getting more and more biologically related with behaviors as a symptom.

[Useruser666]

Man, I'm busy for one day and look what happens! :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

you don't know me, nor do i know you.. i haven't seen you post your life story on here like manny... you don't know what accomplishments i have or do not have...



The point you are missing is that no one here cares what you have accomplished, if you have in fact accomplished anything noteworthy. Why do you incessantly measure your sense of self-worth against a person you know only through an internet message board?

[Clandestino]

I'm not going to say this because I don't think Manny can defend himself- quite the opposite, I think he's done a pretty good job considering how idiotically close-minded you are. But I do want to say that you're being a pretty big hypocrite yourself. You condemn him for getting into fights that haven't happened, but then you come back around and acknowledge that they didn't happen, but call him a pussy.

And you had to get personal first apparently - and you had to even bring me into it - from another conversation whos argument was about as intelligible as this one. I resent the fact that you can't seem to even stay on topic to insult one person. I would get personal right back at you, but quite frankly, I hope that the people close to you are less worthy of the insult.

i was waiting for the girlfriend to come to the rescue...

i said he is always fighting.. he says he doesn't... everyone(who knows him personally) has posts commenting on how much he starts shit all the time and gets into confrontations.. whether it escalates into a full blown fistfight is irrelevant..

[Clandestino]

what's wrong with sharing an apartment?
i don't, but, some people like people

there is nothing wrong with that.. my point is manny acts like he is some genius.. i figured if he were that much of a genius he'd be smart enough to at least afford a house or something..

[Clandestino]

The point you are missing is that no one here cares what you have accomplished, if you have in fact accomplished anything noteworthy. Why do you incessantly measure your sense of self-worth against a person you know only through an internet message board?

well, i don't do this with everyone.. it is that manny comes in all mr i am the smartest man in the world type shit...

p.s. are you dating him too?

[Guru of Nothing]

well, i don't do this with everyone.. it is that manny comes in all mr i am the smartest man in the world type shit...

We get it! You think Manny thinks he is the smartest man in the world, and you think you are better than Manny.

[Jekka]

there is nothing wrong with that.. my point is manny acts like he is some genius.. i figured if he were that much of a genius he'd be smart enough to at least afford a house or something..

Yes, because all geniuses have houses. Every single one. Great logic. Your house must be HUGE cos you're so smart.

And as for the "girlfriend coming to the rescue" comment, I don't see your girlfriend/wife/blow-up doll backing you up on any arguments.

Manny didn't need me to "come to the rescue", I interfered because I'm tired of watching you personally attack people who are "wrong" just because they don't agree with you.

[Clandestino]

Yes, because all geniuses have houses. Every single one. Great logic. Your house must be HUGE cos you're so smart.

And as for the "girlfriend coming to the rescue" comment, I don't see your girlfriend/wife/blow-up doll backing you up on any arguments.

Manny didn't need me to "come to the rescue", I interfered because I'm tired of watching you personally attack people who are "wrong" just because they don't agree with you.

yes, i personally attack everyone here.. i think that is what your boyfriend does...

and i never said all geniuses have houses.. i merely stated if manny was so fucking smart he should have found a way to make some money instead of doing bs jobs and barely being able to afford a apt...

and if he didn't need you to come to the rescue why did you? stay out of shit that doesn't involve you...

[smeagol]

Even though Manny can be an a-hole, after reading this thread, Clan, it looks like you are the bigger a-hole.

The funny thing is that I totally disagree with Manny's point on the death penalty and probably agree with yours.

This is why I believe Manny is the political poster of the year. He is able to defend his POV in a smart way 'till the point where Clan (and others in different threads) have to restort to shit such as:

"big-eared pussy",

"but doesn't have anything to show for it except low paying jobs, a shared apartment, no vehicle, etc... ",

"are your ears that big they get in the way of seeing what everyone else sees?",

And then there's Clan's argument about Manny being violent. Very relevant to the point being discussed!

Congrats Clandestino!

You managed to turn a discussion about the death penalty into a petty quarrel about how Manny keeps getting into fights, where he lives, what he does for a living, the fact that he shares an appt . . . all of which are important points which have helped you win the argument.

No question, you are the winner of this one by a landslide :rolleyes

[Clandestino]

Even though Manny can be an a-hole, after reading this thread, Clan, it looks like you are the bigger a-hole.

The funny thing is that I totally disagree with Manny's point on the death penalty and probably agree with yours.

This is why I believe Manny is the political poster of the year. He is able to defend his POV in a smart way 'till the point where Clan (and others in different threads) have to restort to shit such as:

"big-eared pussy",

"but doesn't have anything to show for it except low paying jobs, a shared apartment, no vehicle, etc... ",

"are your ears that big they get in the way of seeing what everyone else sees?",

And then there's Clan's argument about Manny being violent. Very relevant to the point being discussed!

Congrats Clandestino!

You managed to turn a discussion about the death penalty into a petty quarrel about how Manny keeps getting into fights, where he lives, what he does for a living, the fact that he shares an appt . . . all of which are important points which have helped you win the argument.

No question, you are the winner of this one by a landslide :rolleyes

i'm not trying to win any arguments or compete for anything... and i have never tried to act holier than anyone like mannyisgod does on a daily basis...

and how do you not think manny's violent tendencies do fit into an argument about him thinking murderers should not be treated harshly? manny would assume feed them milk and cookies and talk about their problems... but in his daily life he is ready to practically get in fisticuffs....

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Smeagol you get my vote for South American poster of the year!

[Kori Ellis]

Clandestino, I don't get your knocks on Manny's intelligence for not having a real job and having to share an apartment.

First of all, you have no idea what Manny does or why. He could work part-time because he goes to school. He could work at Non-Profit companies because they are something he believes in. He could work limited hours because he's an artist or a musician and wants time to hone his craft. He could work part-time because he has a laboratory in his parent's basement where he devotes time to researching a cure for cancer. He could work part-time because he's a lazy fuck and has a girlfriend who is willing to take care of him.

But none of these scenarios would tell you anything about his intelligence.

All I see from you on a regular basis is that Manny has big ears, no job, and lives with his girlfriend.

And if I use cyber-rationale to judge you from your statements about Manny, I would conclude that you are insecure about your looks, hate that you have to work so much and don't have girlfriend or wife. (The latter I could also conclude by the high percentage of "girls are all whores" posts that you make).

But since cyber-rationale is stupid, I won't conclude anything about you. :)

[mookie2001]

Clandestino, I don't get your knocks on Manny's intelligence for not having a real job and having to share an apartment.

First of all, you have no idea what Manny does or why. He could work part-time because he goes to school. He could work at Non-Profit companies because they are something he believes in. He could work limited hours because he's an artist or a musician and wants time to hone his craft. He could work part-time because he has a laboratory in his parent's basement where he devotes time to researching a cure for cancer. He could work part-time because he's a lazy fuck and has a girlfriend who is willing to take care of him.

But none of these scenarios would tell you anything about his intelligence.

All I see from you on a regular basis is that Manny has big ears, no job, and lives with his girlfriend.

And if I use cyber-rationale to judge you from your statements about Manny, I would conclude that you are insecure about your looks, hate that you have to work so much and don't have girlfriend or wife. (The latter I could also conclude by the high percentage of "girls are all whores" posts that you make).

But since cyber-rationale is stupid, I won't conclude anything about you. :)



you got scoffed

[MannyIsGod]

Clandestino, I don't get your knocks on Manny's intelligence for not having a real job and having to share an apartment.

First of all, you have no idea what Manny does or why. He could work part-time because he goes to school. He could work at Non-Profit companies because they are something he believes in. He could work limited hours because he's an artist or a musician and wants time to hone his craft. He could work part-time because he has a laboratory in his parent's basement where he devotes time to researching a cure for cancer. He could work part-time because he's a lazy fuck and has a girlfriend who is willing to take care of him.

But none of these scenarios would tell you anything about his intelligence.

All I see from you on a regular basis is that Manny has big ears, no job, and lives with his girlfriend.

And if I use cyber-rationale to judge you from your statements about Manny, I would conclude that you are insecure about your looks, hate that you have to work so much and don't have girlfriend or wife. (The latter I could also conclude by the high percentage of "girls are all whores" posts that you make).

But since cyber-rationale is stupid, I won't conclude anything about you. :)
Hey! :lol

I love you, Kori. LJ is a lucky man.

[timvp]

:makemyday

[Clandestino]

Clandestino, I don't get your knocks on Manny's intelligence for not having a real job and having to share an apartment.

First of all, you have no idea what Manny does or why. He could work part-time because he goes to school. He could work at Non-Profit companies because they are something he believes in. He could work limited hours because he's an artist or a musician and wants time to hone his craft. He could work part-time because he has a laboratory in his parent's basement where he devotes time to researching a cure for cancer. He could work part-time because he's a lazy fuck and has a girlfriend who is willing to take care of him.

But none of these scenarios would tell you anything about his intelligence.

All I see from you on a regular basis is that Manny has big ears, no job, and lives with his girlfriend.

And if I use cyber-rationale to judge you from your statements about Manny, I would conclude that you are insecure about your looks, hate that you have to work so much and don't have girlfriend or wife. (The latter I could also conclude by the high percentage of "girls are all whores" posts that you make).

But since cyber-rationale is stupid, I won't conclude anything about you. :)

maybe it is because he posts his whole life story that i know shit about him...

but no, i am not insecure, love my job(i barely work anymore..hence the time to screw around on the computer), and yes have a girlfirend, but she works, hence the time i have to screw around on the computer...

the all girls are whore posts are to rile the natives which i see it does...

but the whole point of me busting on manny is bc he belittles anyone who does not believe the way he does(which is most people)... i pretty much just screw with manny...

[Clandestino]

Clandestino, I don't get your knocks on Manny's intelligence for not having a real job and having to share an apartment.

First of all, you have no idea what Manny does or why. He could work part-time because he goes to school. He could work at Non-Profit companies because they are something he believes in. He could work limited hours because he's an artist or a musician and wants time to hone his craft. He could work part-time because he has a laboratory in his parent's basement where he devotes time to researching a cure for cancer. He could work part-time because he's a lazy fuck and has a girlfriend who is willing to take care of him.

But none of these scenarios would tell you anything about his intelligence.

All I see from you on a regular basis is that Manny has big ears, no job, and lives with his girlfriend.

And if I use cyber-rationale to judge you from your statements about Manny, I would conclude that you are insecure about your looks, hate that you have to work so much and don't have girlfriend or wife. (The latter I could also conclude by the high percentage of "girls are all whores" posts that you make).

But since cyber-rationale is stupid, I won't conclude anything about you. :)

that is what you see from manny... and you forgot to add that he likes to fight...

[NeoConIV]

I say keep him alive with stipulation that he gets a Singaporean style caning on Fridays for the rest of his life? Works for me.

[Kori Ellis]

manny is bc he belittles anyone who does not believe the way he does(which is most people)

He doesn't belittle me. And I believe in pretty much the opposite of everything he does. I'm republican. Anti-abortion. Pro-death penalty. Anti-Gay Marriage/Gay Adoption. Etc.

So perhaps it's just that you don't play well with others and he treats you accordingly.

[Nbadan]

that is what you see from manny... and you forgot to add that he likes to fight...

I think we are all being just a bit testy, but I also think the Clan Man does have a point. Manny does sometimes tend to belittle people who have a opposite point of view. However, maybe its human nature, but I think at one point or another, we are all guilty of doing the same. Maybe what we should all be getting from this is that although we are never all going to agree on anything, at least we can treat each other's point of view with a little respect.

[Clandestino]

I think we are all being just a bit testy, but I also think the Clan Man does have a point. Manny does sometimes tend to belittle people who have a opposite point of view. However, maybe its human nature, but I think at one point or another, we are all guilty of doing the same. Maybe what we should all be getting from this is that although we are never all going to agree on anything, at least we can treat each other's point of view with a little respect.

nba and i have never agreed on anything... if we agree on this... oh shit....

[Clandestino]

He doesn't belittle me. And I believe in pretty much the opposite of everything he does. I'm republican. Anti-abortion. Pro-death penalty. Anti-Gay Marriage/Gay Adoption. Etc.

So perhaps it's just that you don't play well with others and he treats you accordingly.

you never have a take in the political forum... that is why you run this forum so successfully... you just let shit flow...

more power to you...

[MannyIsGod]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-12/913758/OBSESSION1.jpg

[smeagol]

i'm not trying to win any arguments or compete for anything... and i have never tried to act holier than anyone like mannyisgod does on a daily basis...

and how do you not think manny's violent tendencies do fit into an argument about him thinking murderers should not be treated harshly? manny would assume feed them milk and cookies and talk about their problems... but in his daily life he is ready to practically get in fisticuffs....
I thought making all those personal attacks out of frustration, instead of defending your point with arguments, was pretty stupid.

But that's just me.

[Clandestino]

I thought making all those personal attacks out of frustration, instead of defending your point with arguments, was pretty stupid.

But that's just me.

yeah, because manny never makes any personal attacks... :rolleyes

[bigzak25]

so manny sets the standard for you to follow?

if he rides his bike off a bridge....you gonna jump off after him to talk shit about a house?

[MannyIsGod]

All in all, I really don't care about most of this, but I do want to clear the air on the personal attacks.

I don't come out and make personal attacks the vast majority of the time. I have a very aggressive debating style that many people can't hang with, but I don't come out and attack them in the debates. I don't need to question what Clandestino does for a living or make fun of his ears, because the fact of the matter is that I make my points much better than he does.

If you go back into threads (and you can start in this one) and look for the first personal attack in there, you will find some where I'm an asshole. But check out this thread. Find the first personal attack. It wasn't made by me. And this isn't the only thread.

Honestly, Clandestion questioning what I do, where I live, the size of my ears, or anything else doesn't bother me. According to him, I post my life story on this forum. I do share quite a bit with the people on here because many of you have been good friends for YEARS, but if I do post my life story on here, Clandestion once again shows his poor reading comprehension because he's gotten so many aspects of it wrong.

Anyhow, I look forward to proving him wrong over and over again! Or, if not wrong then out least out debating the hell out of him.

[Useruser666]

Anyhow, I look forward to proving him wrong over and over again! Or, if not wrong then out least out debating the hell out of him.

:lol

I'm the last one to post grammar smack. I thought this example was a funny illustration of trying to end on a high note and shooting yourself in the foot. Usually it's the first sentence that makes a person fall flat on their face.

[MannyIsGod]

Son of a bitch. :lol

[Kori Ellis]

if he rides his bike off a bridge....

:lmao

[smeagol]

I don't come out and make personal attacks the vast majority of the time.

Then there was that time you made that Malvinas War joke (yes, I have a long memory).

I took that one personal, you long-eared bastard! :spin

[Gatita]

Anyhow, back to the topic... :bang

I don't believe you can change people once they reach a certain point in their lives. Psychology has taught us much regarding personality. I do agree with Manny when he stated that we should find out what got them to that point. But, I also feel it will be moot, since the individual has already committed heinous crimes against man. I do feel that he (they) have crossed the line of no return. They could never truly be “rehabilitated”. You can make someone feel guilty or say sorry, but can you really make someone change the “evil” ways? I once again agree with Manny, when he stated that we are not born inherently “evil”. But, I also feel that we are not born inherently good, either. Man has been screwing things up since the dawn of time. We are selfish and egotistical. Many of us believe that we can do no wrong. Maybe that is the problem with society as a whole today. As we, as a society, keep churning out individuals such as the child rapist/murder.

[Useruser666]

Get your "CONDITIONED ASSHOLE" t-shirts right here! Only 20 bucks!!!

[bigzak25]

Get your "CONDITIONED ASSHOLE" t-shirts right here! Only 20 bucks!!!


i'll take 1!

sincerely,

gayabc-



:p