Western Conference All-Star C

[Bob Lanier]

Just out of curiosity.

[Darrin]

Andrew Bynum or Amare Stoudemire.

[mardigan]

Marc Gasol

[Flight3107]

Drew Gooden

[Bob Lanier]

Ah, fuck it. Apparently polls aren't working for me today.

I'm not certain I'd choose Marc Gasol over Andrew Bynum or Tim Duncan, but it's possible.

Who else is there? Kaman, Jefferson, Oden, Okafor, Nene, and Okur, I suppose.

[Leetonidas]

Isn't Duncan listed as a PF? If he is a C on the ballot then he will probably get the starting job for sure...well either way, Duncan is probably gonna start.

If Duncan ain't listed as a C then I'd say Bynum or Stoudemire.

[mavs>spurs2]

Nene's number don't quite stand out because he's on a team loaded with so many talented scorers, but he's still filling up the stat sheet in other ways. 14.2 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 2.6 APG, 1.4 SPG 1.2 BPG off an incredibly efficient 61% from the field :wow

[duncan228]

Duncan is listed as a Forward.

[duncan228]

The West Centers on the ballot:

Andris Biedrins
Andrew Bynum
Marcus Camby
Marc Gasol
Spencer Hawes
Al Jefferson
Antonio McDyess
Nene
Greg Oden
Emeka Okafor
Mehmet Okur
Amar'e Stoudemire

[23LeBronJames23]

Amare will be the starter most likely imo

[DPG21920]

Bynum/Nene/Marc have played the best ball. It should be one of them, but I highly doubt he will get enough pub to warrant an all-star appearance.

It really is a two-man race between Bynum and Nene with Amare behind them. I personally think it should go to Nene, but it is very close.

[Bob Lanier]

Stoudemire? Seriously?

Has there ever been a starting center in the All-Star game who averages 6 rebounds per game?

[Bob Lanier]

Stoudemire? Seriously?

Has there ever been a starting center in the All-Star game who averages 6 rebounds per game?

[KSeal]

If the Clippers have close to a 500 record at the break I think Kaman should get the starting nod. Bynum's a possibility but his numbers have fallen since Pau has been back, which makes sense.

[iggypop123]

its about votes so the starters will be paul kobe melo dirk duncan. as far as who gets in as a reserve as center its going to be tough. you can have bynum, kaman, marc gasol, pau gasol,nene,

[Allanon]

its about votes so the starters will be paul kobe melo dirk duncan. as far as who gets in as a reserve as center its going to be tough. you can have bynum, kaman, marc gasol, pau gasol,nene,

I'd agree on Duncan but he's at the PF position on the ballot this year, Iggy.

Starting center is gonna be one of these guys:



Andris Biedrins
Andrew Bynum
Marcus Camby
Marc Gasol
Spencer Hawes
Al Jefferson
Antonio McDyess
Nene
Greg Oden
Emeka Okafor
Mehmet Okur
Amar'e Stoudemire

[ginobili's bald spot]

Have the people saying Amare actually watched him? Just curious.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Have the people saying Amare actually watched him? Just curious.


Do you think all the Amare lovers in China have ever watched him?

[KSeal]

Wait, Kaman isn't even on the ballet?

[Allanon]

Wait, Kaman isn't even on the ballet?

He isn't on the ballot at all. He'd have to be a write-in or coach's pick.

Who would have thought he'd be having a good year? :lol

[ginobili's bald spot]

Do you think all the Amare lovers in China have ever watched him?

Amare is loved in China? I had no idea.

[DPG21920]

Amare is not having a bad year. He has had some solid games. His rebounding has not been great, but he has played pretty well as of late.

Andris Biedrins
Marcus Camby
Spencer Hawes
Al Jefferson
Antonio McDyess
Greg Oden
Emeka Okafor
Mehmet Okur

People saying Amare are looking at Bynum/Nene/Marc Gasol and thinking the remaining guys on the list are not that impressive so far. Amare has been playing good enough and has the name power that if he has a really strong run of play, he can make it.

[JJ Hickson]

Wait, Kaman isn't even on the ballet?


I guess he quit ballet to concentrate more on basketball. Looks like it's paying off.

[duhoh]

I guess he quit ballet to concentrate more on basketball. Looks like it's paying off.

:tu

[KSeal]

:lol Pardon my retardation.

Seriously though, he at least deserves to be on the ballot.

[Allanon]

Got damn, just watched the Clippers/Grizz game.

Marc Gasol put up 26 pts on 72% shooting, 5rbds, 6 ast, 3 steals and 3 blocks

Kaman put up 8 pts on 30% shooting, 11 rbds, 1 and 1

[TD 21]

Stoudemire will "start at center", but Duncan will occupy the center position for the West. He'll defend Howard and Stoudemire will defend Garnett. Stoudemire will beat out Bynum, Gasol, Kaman, et al. because he's a more of an established name and fan favorite.

At this writing ...

West All-Stars

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Anthony, C- Stoudemire, SG- Bryant, PG- Nash

Bench: PG- Paul, PF- Nowitzki, SG/PG- Roy, PF/C- Gasol, PG- Parker, SF- Durant, C- Bynum

Anthony and Nowitzki are interchangeable as starters, as are Nash and Paul. Essentially, it likely comes down to Durant, Bynum, Williams and Billups for the final two spots.

[Flight3107]

Dirk and Carmello should be starting at the foward positions

[TD 21]

Dirk and Carmello should be starting at the foward positions

I agree. Duncan should be the center, Bryant the shooting guard and one of Nash or Paul (give the current edge to Nash because of team record) should be the point guard. However, due to the positional listings on the ballot, the lineup I detailed is the likely one.

[Allanon]

Stoudemire will "start at center", but Duncan will occupy the center position for the West. He'll defend Howard and Stoudemire will defend Garnett. Stoudemire will beat out Bynum, Gasol, Kaman, et al. because he's a more of an established name and fan favorite.


Yup, Bynum getting fan-voted in as an All Star over Amare is a long shot. Amare's a much more recognizable name.

It's also a long shot but would be funny if both Pau and Marc are in the same All-Star game.

Has there ever been two brothers who were All Stars in the same game?

[Xylus]

Dick Van Arsdale and Tom Van Arsdale faced off in the 1971 All-Star Game.

[Indazone]

Western Conference Center is a joke this year.

[Indazone]

If I gotta take a Center, I take Gasol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Amare is loved in China? I had no idea.


Yup, idk why but they love him.

[pauls931]

Yup, idk why but they love him.

They can't stand the idea of a white Jesus.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

They can't stand the idea of a white Jesus.


Then they must really hate Tim Tebow.

[21_Blessings]

:lol Pardon my retardation.

Seriously though, he at least deserves to be on the ballot.

They pick the ballot before the season. Which is stupid. Just like fan voting after 6 games is stupid.

[21_Blessings]

The answer is obvious. Andrew Bynum. Best center in the Western Conference this season, without question. :lol


I agree. Duncan should be the center,


Sorry you can't have it both ways.

Duncan is a center but the Spurs want to pretend like he's still a PF and list him as such to strengthen his legacy despite playing at C the majority of the time.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bynum isn't gonna be playing in February anyways, so does it really matter if he wins the voting?..

[21_Blessings]

Bynum isn't gonna be playing in February anyways, so does it really matter if he wins the voting?..

San Antonio won't be playing in June anyways. So I guess the regular season really doesn't matter to them!

[21_Blessings]

You all are crazy if you think Bynum is an all-star.

Can't hear ya with all that Bynum crow in your mouth.

[TD 21]

The answer is obvious. Andrew Bynum. Best center in the Western Conference this season, without question. :lol




Sorry you can't have it both ways.

Duncan is a center but the Spurs want to pretend like he's still a PF and list him as such to strengthen his legacy despite playing at C the majority of the time.

Learn to read. I said, due to listing on the ballot, that he'd be starting at "power forward", in terms of the official box score listing, but really, like he does for the Spurs, he'd be playing center.

Yeah, that's why the Spurs have done it. If you knew anything about the Spurs then you'd know that a big part of their culture is not taking themselves too seriously. Them listing Duncan as a power forward is an extension of that, a running gag.

[21_Blessings]

Learn to read. I said, due to listing, that he'd be starting at "power forward", in terms of the official listing, but really, like he does for the Spurs, he'd be playing center.

The Spurs are barely playing .500 ball and Timmy's defense has been underwhelming.

Bynum deserves the starting C spot thus far.




Yeah, that's why the Spurs have done it. If you knew anything about the Spurs then you'd know that a big part of their culture is not taking themselves too seriously. Them listing Duncan as a power forward is an extension of that, a running gag.

You're delusional if you think it's a gag. Fact is Timmy has played more center this decade than power forward. They list him a PF so his legacy will be the "greatest PF of all time"*

*except he's a really a center now

[TD 21]

The Spurs are barely playing .500 ball and Timmy's defense has been underwhelming.

Bynum deserves the starting C spot thus far.

9-6 is not "barely playing .500 ball", Duncan's defense has, like the team, progressively gotten better and he has a top 5 PER in the entire league. Only because he's playing slightly less than 32 mpg are his numbers not entirely overwhelming.

[21_Blessings]

9-6 is not "barely playing .500 ball",

Yes it is. The spurs still don't have any quality wins.


Duncan's defense has, like the team, progressively gotten better and he has a top 5 PER in the entire league. Only because he's playing slightly less than 32 mpg are his numbers not entirely overwhelming.

Spurs defense has been nothing but mediocre, Timmy's included.

Andrew Bynum, starting center for your Western Conference!

[TD 21]

The Spurs are barely playing .500 ball and Timmy's defense has been underwhelming.

Bynum deserves the starting C spot thus far.



You're delusional if you think it's a gag. Fact is Timmy has played more center this decade than power forward. They list him a PF so his legacy will be the "greatest PF of all time"*

*except he's a really a center now

You're delusional if you think the Spurs, an organization that cares less about what the media thinks than any other, would do this for that reason. Many claim Duncan is and always has been a center any way, so them listing him as a power forward isn't going to change their minds.

[21_Blessings]

You're delusional if you think the Spurs, an organization that cares less about what the media thinks than any other, would do this for that reason.

Stop being a homer. It's clearly a legacy issue.


Many claim Duncan is and always has been a center any way, so them listing him as a power forward isn't going to change their minds.

That's because he is more a center. Problem is Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq and many others. Duncan clearly wants to be remembered as a PF since he has claim to the greatest ever title at that position. Lot less competition.

[TD 21]

Stop being a homer. It's clearly a legacy issue.



That's because he is more a center. Problem is Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq and many others. Duncan clearly wants to be remembered as a PF since he has claim to the greatest ever title at that position. Lot less competition.


You're picking Bynum over Duncan (even though there's really nothing to back this up but homerism) for the starting All-Star spot in the West and you have the nerve to call me a homer? Me being a homer would be listing Parker as a starter over the likes of Nash and Paul.

He is now; he wasn't for the first half-three quarters of his career. Duncan is not a true center like those guys are. Chamberlain was 7'1'' 275, Abdul-Jabbar 7'2'' 267 and O'Neal 7'1'' 330...Duncan is 6'11 240-260 (at different points).

[21_Blessings]

You're picking Bynum over Duncan (even though there's really nothing to back this up but homerism) for the starting All-Star spot in the West and you have the nerve to call me a homer?

Bynum has a solid argument for starting over Timmy. Overall Timmy has a huge experience advantage but Bynum has been beasting and the Lakers have the second best record in the league.

It's moot because Timmy is listed at PF because that's what he wants. :lol


Me being a homer would be listing Parker as a starter over the likes of Nash and Paul.

Parker hasn't been playing like the 2nd best PG in the league, like Bynum has at C. Try again.


He is now; he wasn't for the first half-three quarters of his career. Duncan is not a true center like those guys are. Chamberlain was 7'1'' 275, Abdul-Jabbar 7'2'' 267 and O'Neal 7'1'' 330...Duncan is 6'11 240-260 (at different points).

Hate to break it to you but Duncan has played more minutes at center than PF this decade.

He'll be remembered as a PF because that's how Timmy wants it. I don't blame him, I would too.

[FkLA]

Yes it is. The spurs still don't have any quality wins.

Who have the Lakers beaten exactly? Unless you want to consider the Suns or Hawks legit contenders.

[21_Blessings]

Who have the Lakers beaten exactly? Unless you want to consider the Suns or Hawks legit contenders.

The Champs are the Champs until proven otherwise.

Wake me up when the Spurs can get out the 1st round again. Trust me, the Lakeshow will be waiting.

[HarlemHeat37]

You know you're an All-Star when Chuck Hayes sets his career high in combined points/rebounds when he's being primarily guarded by you..impressive..

Real though, good luck to Bynum on his All-Star bid..break a leg B..

[ElNono]

Does it matter? The All Star voting is a popularity contest that's normally completely disconnected with who's been playing the best up until that point...

But to shut up 21 Dumbfucks... Duncan, 11 years older and all, actually has better numbers than Bynum in almost every statistical category this season, doing it in a fraction of playing time:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=hbZsZ

And this is with Andrew being one of the centerpieces on offense. Now that Pau is back, I fully expect his numbers to go back down...

[Johnny RIngo]

Bynum has a solid argument for starting over Timmy.

No he doesn't.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1879/duncbynum.jpg

TD has the better stats in fewer minutes.

[Allanon]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1879/duncbynum.jpg


Dang, I always thought Bynum would be good but I never thought I'd see the day Bynum and Duncan were that statistically close.

I'm kind of surprised that Duncan insists on getting listed in the PF position for these ballots.

[jacobdrj]

Dang, I always thought Bynum would be good but I never thought I'd see the day Bynum and Duncan were that statistically close.

I'm kind of surprised that Duncan insists on getting listed in the PF position for these ballots.

Word...

[TD 21]

Bynum has a solid argument for starting over Timmy. Overall Timmy has a huge experience advantage but Bynum has been beasting and the Lakers have the second best record in the league.

It's moot because Timmy is listed at PF because that's what he wants. :lol



Parker hasn't been playing like the 2nd best PG in the league, like Bynum has at C. Try again.



Hate to break it to you but Duncan has played more minutes at center than PF this decade.

He'll be remembered as a PF because that's how Timmy wants it. I don't blame him, I would too.

Even though people have already made my point for me, I'll just add, once again: No, there isn't a single credible argument for Bynum starting over Duncan. Even the extra 4-5 mpg (per game that may be meaningless, but that amounts to 322-404 extra minutes over the course of 82 games if it were to hold. Not that I expect it to with Gasol back) haven't made Bynum statistically superior to Duncan in any category, save for fg% and big deal. With Bynum's overwhelming size, fairly good athleticism, the fact that he's very young (meaning there's still plenty of spring in his legs, so he get's more lift around the basket) and I wouldn't say an afterthought on offense, but clearly not one of the two main focuses, means he should probably be shooting an even higher percentage from the field than he does.

Looks like you're just another idiot who lacks reading comprehension. I didn't say Parker should start (just look back in this thread at my West All-Star team as of now), I said me being a homer, like you claim, would be if I were to say that. Saying Duncan should start, even though there's more than enough evidence to suggest this, is not being a homer.

No, he'll be remembered as a PF because that's the position he primarily played from 97-06.

[TD 21]

Dang, I always thought Bynum would be good but I never thought I'd see the day Bynum and Duncan were that statistically close.

I'm kind of surprised that Duncan insists on getting listed in the PF position for these ballots.

I'm amazed by how few people know how to properly interpret stats.

I'm kind of surprised that Garnett and Nowitzki insist on being listed as PF's (not on the All-Star ballot, since the listing doesn't distinguish between PF/SF or SG/PG, it's just F or G), when in actuality they play like SF's. Yet no one ever calls them on that.

[SamoanTD]

Bynum has a solid argument for starting over Timmy. Overall Timmy has a huge experience advantage but Bynum has been beasting and the Lakers have the second best record in the league.


so because the lakers have a good record means bynum=allstar? duncan is way better than bynum he's workin for all his points in the paint while bynum sits down low getting spoon fed like a baby back bitch:lol. At the end of the day bynum is just a role player.

[Allanon]

I'm amazed by how few people know how to properly interpret stats.

I'm kind of surprised that Garnett and Nowitzki insist on being listed as PF's (not on the All-Star ballot, since the listing doesn't distinguish between PF/SF or SG/PG, it's just F or G), when in actuality they play like SF's. Yet no one ever calls them on that.

I am not sure what you're saying.

Those stats are pretty straight forward; how else would you interpret them?

And I don't understand the correlation to Dirk or KG. I've never heard of Dirk or KG insisting on PF versus SF.

Although I have heard that Duncan prefers to be listed as a PF or Center.

I don't think anybody's calling Duncan out for it (I was not); just an oddity. Most Spurfan here know I really do like Duncan.

[TD 21]

I am not sure what you're saying.

Those stats are pretty straight forward; how else would you interpret them?

And I don't understand the correlation to Dirk or KG. I've never heard of Dirk or KG insisting on PF versus SF.

Although I have heard that Duncan prefers to be listed as a PF or Center.

I don't think anybody's calling Duncan out for it (I was not); just an oddity. Most Spurfan here know I really do like Duncan.


To be quite honest, I actually meant more in general. In direct relation to what you said, the minutes are the big thing. 4.4 mpg is significant, whether people realize it or not. And, like SamoanTD said, Duncan has to work harder for his points, not only because he's not overly big or mobile, but because he, along with Parker, is the focus of the defense.

The point is people make like to reason that "Duncan plays like a center, only he insists on playing power forward so he can feast on smaller opponents", but I could make the same argument for Garnett and Nowitzki. They play like small forwards, only they don't play that position because they'd get burned on the perimeter defensively and offensively their quickness advantage would vanish. You could say they'd have a height advantage, but the truth is neither (particularly Nowitzki) likes to post up or play in the post.

Duncan's reasoning is that he feels he can do more than a center. He seemingly feels like the term center equates to immobile, unskilled and just getting by on size.

[hater]

Duncan player of the week, Duncan is the one beasting. Bynum has no chance

[mavs>spurs2]

It's because Duncan wants to the the "best pf of all time" even though he's not. If he didn't come into a situation where management did a good job building around him and allowing him to win rings, then he wouldn't even be in the discussion

[Allanon]

Duncan player of the week, Duncan is the one beasting. Bynum has no chance

Duncan and Bynum are on separate ballots basically.

Duncan at Forward vying against guys like Melo, Dirk, Pau

Bynum's at Center with Amare as his prime competition.

Bynum's got a very high chance of making the All Star team...not sure if it will be as a starter or backup.

[TD 21]

It's because Duncan wants to the the "best pf of all time" even though he's not. If he didn't come into a situation where management did a good job building around him and allowing him to win rings, then he wouldn't even be in the discussion

Says the guy who's a fan of a team that annually ranks in the top 3 in the league in payroll, yet they've never won a championship, meanwhile, the Spurs have rarely ever been over the luxury tax and up until this year the times they did go over it was barely, yet they've won four championships. They've surrounded Duncan with low draft picks and savvy, under-the-radar acquisitions via trade or free agency. This notion that Duncan has been surrounded by overwhelming talent and that's the reason he's considered to be as great as he is is false. You're just a bitter Mavs fan with with a career loser/choke-artist as your lead player.

[mavs>spurs2]

No offense, it's just that Tim Duncan isn't as good as an individual basketball player as Barkely, Malone, or even Dirk.

Barkely, Malone, Dirk >Duncan

Duncan + spurs management > those other guys + their management

[cobbler]

Even though people have already made my point for me, I'll just add, once again: No, there isn't a single credible argument for Bynum starting over Duncan. Even the extra 4-5 mpg (per game that may be meaningless, but that amounts to 322-404 extra minutes over the course of 82 games if it were to hold. Not that I expect it to with Gasol back) haven't made Bynum statistically superior to Duncan in any category, save for fg% and big deal. With Bynum's overwhelming size, fairly good athleticism, the fact that he's very young (meaning there's still plenty of spring in his legs, so he get's more lift around the basket) and I wouldn't say an afterthought on offense, but clearly not one of the two main focuses, means he should probably be shooting an even higher percentage from the field than he does.

Looks like you're just another idiot who lacks reading comprehension. I didn't say Parker should start (just look back in this thread at my West All-Star team as of now), I said me being a homer, like you claim, would be if I were to say that. Saying Duncan should start, even though there's more than enough evidence to suggest this, is not being a homer.

No, he'll be remembered as a PF because that's the position he primarily played from 97-06.

I love how you round up to exaggerate your BS. 55.2 mpg minus 31.8 = 3.4. 3.4 * 82 = 278. Not the 322 to 404 minutes you claim.

Regardless of your paltry math skills, I am surprised also to see that Timmy and Drew are pretty much even in most stats. Does this now mean Timmy is overatted too? :wow

[Muser]

Not really, Duncan is >>>>>>>>>>>> Bynum on Defense, even at his advanced age.

[mystargtr34]

The difference isnt in the minutes played, its often in the pace of the game. Ever since the Duncer era began, the Spurs have been one of the slowest paced teams in the league, meaning less possessions in the game, meaning less opportunities for points, rebounds, assists, blocks etc... Ever since hes been in the league, has been short changed in terms of his raw stats, even though they have still been amongst the best in the league. So anytime you look at stats, you should look at the pace a team plays.

[mystargtr34]

Its no coincidence guys like Marion, Stoudemire and Nash upped their stats by 25% in a system with increased possessions, and its also no coincidence guys like Duncan increase their numbers by a similar amount when they play those teams who push the ball, and have more possessions in a game.

[mystargtr34]

About the topic though... id have no problem putting Bynum in as the starting C in the West as of right now... the only other guys who you would really consider are Kaman and Marc Gasol... they have impressive numbers - but coaches reward wins, and fans reward being a Laker.

[ElNono]

No offense, it's just that Tim Duncan isn't as good as an individual basketball player as Barkely, Malone, or even Dirk.

Barkely, Malone, Dirk >Duncan

Duncan + spurs management > those other guys + their management

Not really. I think what makes Duncan the better player is that he's the more complete player. He's been anchoring our defense for years at an incredibly high level. Barkley is a self-admitted defensive liability, and while Dirk has always been an average rebounder and improved his defense ever so slightly, he's far from being an anchor, or even be anywhere near Duncan defensively.
Malone is probably the better comparison.

[jacobdrj]

IMHO, you are the position you defend, not the position you play on offense. See: Manute Bol

Duncan has supplanted Malone and Barkely on his body of work and completeness and clutch-ness.

The story isn't over on Dirk, but he does NOT play anywhere near the defense and therefore isn't on the same tier.

[HarlemHeat37]

There isn't really an argument for greatest PF..

Malone is one of the biggest chokers for a superstar in NBA history, Barkley was a horrible defender..Dirk didn't become an above average defender until this season or last season, and he's far from an anchor or anything special..he's also had his fair share of choking..

Garnett>>Dirk from a career perspective..

[TD 21]

I love how you round up to exaggerate your BS. 55.2 mpg minus 31.8 = 3.4. 3.4 * 82 = 278. Not the 322 to 404 minutes you claim.

Regardless of your paltry math skills, I am surprised also to see that Timmy and Drew are pretty much even in most stats. Does this now mean Timmy is overatted too? :wow

It was a mistake genius, I didn't intentionally "round up", nor am I lacking in "math skills". I was actually a year ahead of my grade in math.

As for all this Nowitzki talk, he doesn't merit a mention. He's a sub par rebounder, passer, probably the worst screen setter I've ever seen, is reluctant and mostly ineffective when playing with his back to the basket in the low post, is no longer a deadly 3-point shooter (used to be one of his major attributes), can't defend straight up, is a mediocre team defender, rarely blocks shots (despite his inflated total early this year), is a bonafide choke artist and could never carry a team, not even one that's featured as bloated a payroll or as many weapons as the Mavs have over the years.

And for all the talk about "what a great scorer he is", that's also overstated. If it weren't for his exceptional free throw shooting, he'd be a mostly inefficient scorer. He's a 7'footer shooting in the mid 40's from the field. Give Duncan 20 shots per game and play him 38 minutes per game and he could easily average in the mid 20's in points per game.

[Dex]

Probably Bynum. :vomit:

[21_Blessings]

Probably Bynum. :vomit:

:toast

[Sportstudi]

It was a mistake genius, I didn't intentionally "round up", nor am I lacking in "math skills". I was actually a year ahead of my grade in math.

As for all this Nowitzki talk, he doesn't merit a mention. He's a sub par rebounder, passer, probably the worst screen setter I've ever seen, is reluctant and mostly ineffective when playing with his back to the basket in the low post, is no longer a deadly 3-point shooter (used to be one of his major attributes), can't defend straight up, is a mediocre team defender, rarely blocks shots (despite his inflated total early this year), is a bonafide choke artist and could never carry a team, not even one that's featured as bloated a payroll or as many weapons as the Mavs have over the years.

And for all the talk about "what a great scorer he is", that's also overstated. If it weren't for his exceptional free throw shooting, he'd be a mostly inefficient scorer. He's a 7'footer shooting in the mid 40's from the field. Give Duncan 20 shots per game and play him 38 minutes per game and he could easily average in the mid 20's in points per game.

You are seriously braindead.

[Johnny RIngo]

He's a sub par rebounder, passer, probably the worst screen setter I've ever seen, is reluctant and mostly ineffective when playing with his back to the basket in the low post, can't defend straight up, is a mediocre team defender, rarely blocks shots (despite his inflated total early this year), is a bonafide choke artist and could never carry a team, not even one that's featured as bloated a payroll or as many weapons as the Mavs have over the years.

This sounds more like Amare, not Dirk.

[TD 21]

You are seriously braindead.

Brain dead is two words, not one. Take off the rose colored glasses and you'll realize that Nowitzki is in fact a sub par rebounder, in addition to everything else I said he is. Only a fool who doesn't know how to properly interpret stats would think otherwise. Nowitzki averages 8-9 rpg, but he's 7'0'' tall and plays 37-38 mpg, meaning there's nothing impressive about that.