Spurs VS Boston is a True Test

[carib]

Spurs next game against Boston is the first true test to see in which direction the team is headed in. Boston is the best team in the East and one of the top teams in the league, there should be no excuses about its early in the season, we are still on a 5 game winning stretch here if its early for the Spurs its early for Boston.. Boston is also trying out new pieces and different rotations.

So again this is a true test to see where both teams are headed.

[carib]

Is this going to be a game of point guards or big men match ups, I think KG is going to have his way, so therefore Tony really needs to push the ball for the Spurs.

[Capt Bringdown]

The Celtics and Lakers are battling for HCA, playing kickass dominant basketball from the get-go. The Spurs, well, it's getting harder and harder to say what objectives they have for the regular season other than staying healthy.

So in that regard, regular season tests or statement games for the Spurs are a thing of the past. The best we can hope for is to get healthy and catch fire before the playoffs start.

[benefactor]

Spurstalk is preparing itself for epic meltdown....

[alchemist]

The Celtics and Lakers are battling for HCA, playing kickass dominant basketball from the get-go. The Spurs, well, it's getting harder and harder to say what objectives they have for the regular season other than staying healthy.

So in that regard, regular season tests or statement games for the Spurs are a thing of the past. The best we can hope for is to get healthy and catch fire before the playoffs start.
That's bullshit. The Celtics haven't played dominate basketball since they started 6-0.

[raspsa]

Pop said it very clearly a couple of seasons ago.. all you can really hope for is to be one of the 5 or 6 teams remaining at the end of the regular season with a chance to win it all. He's made it apparent that win-loss records or even home-court advantage aren't at the top of his agenda. I just hope to see the Spurs continuing to build on what they've accomplished in their previous games, specially on the defensive end.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

The Celtics and Lakers are battling for HCA, playing kickass dominant basketball from the get-go. The Spurs, well, it's getting harder and harder to say what objectives they have for the regular season other than staying healthy.

So in that regard, regular season tests or statement games for the Spurs are a thing of the past. The best we can hope for is to get healthy and catch fire before the playoffs start.

You haven't been paying attention. The Spurs objectives for the regular season are eminently clear. They are to get to the playoffs healthy, mentally ready, and with something left in the tank. Popovich will never compromise any of these objectives to try to get a regular season win.

Look at the back-to-back 2nd night in Denver last season. Popovich sat all of this big 3 just because he didn't want to burn them out. And, what do you know, they almost won anyway. Would any other coach of a top-tier team do this?

[easjer]

Pop said it very clearly a couple of seasons ago.. all you can really hope for is to be one of the 5 or 6 teams remaining at the end of the regular season with a chance to win it all. He's made it apparent that win-loss records or even home-court advantage aren't at the top of his agenda. I just hope to see the Spurs continuing to build on what they've accomplished in their previous games, specially on the defensive end.

Word.

[Chomag]

If I ever took this lackluster attitude to work or school I would be fired in a heart beat. I just had test thats wasn't very important to me passing my class. However I still wanted to keep my grade up so I tried my best to ace it.

Geeze,what ever happened to pride? What ever happened to that killer instinct, that hunger that championship teams posses? Are we not a team that wants to contend for the championship, or one of those teams that are satisfied just to make the playoffs. I had thought it was the first option, but maybe I'm proven wrong.

Why do some of you even watch these games if they realy don't seem to matter?

I'm sorry for the rant. Maybe I'm just way to old fashioned, and times have changed with this lackluster attitude towards everything. I'm just not used to it, so please bare with me.

[hater]

Spurstalk is preparing itself for epic meltdown....

+1

I see spurs losing mostlly due to the 4 days off

[Bender]

I see spurs losing mostlly due to the 4 days offalso, they don't have a good record on national tv do they?

[hater]

true. Spurs record on TNT is horrible.

[SpurNation]

Optomistic myself. I can see the Spurs having a great shot at winning the game.

[carib]

If you start bad you will end bad, look at the Lakers last year, does the Spurs have any one on the Team Hungry like Kobe, that goes out and end every game with that winning passion.

[Mel_13]

If you start bad you will end bad, look at the Lakers last year, does the Spurs have any one on the Team Hungry like Kobe, that goes out and end every game with that winning passion.

:lol

If only Duncan was as committed to winning as Kobe. That's the real reason the Spurs don't win more, Duncan's poor attitude. :rolleyes

[carib]

:lol

If only Duncan was as committed to winning as Kobe. That's the real reason the Spurs don't win more, Duncan's poor attitude. :rolleyes

Trust me Duncan is trying hard, and he has a great Attitude, but when age comes knocking on your door, what you do.

We need some young killers on the team, some young beast. Tony Parker is the closest to a Young Beast.

[Mel_13]

Trust me Duncan is trying hard, and he has a great Attitude, but when age comes knocking on your door, what you do.

We need some young killers on the team, some young beast. Tony Parker is the closest to a Young Beast.

Nice backtracking.

[greyforest]

If I ever took this lackluster attitude to work or school I would be fired in a heart beat. I just had test thats wasn't very important to me passing my class. However I still wanted to keep my grade up so I tried my best to ace it.


Your analogy is bad. If there was no downside to playing as hard as possible every night, Spurs would obviously do this.

There is a downside - players get injured and worn out playing at maximum strength. For an especially old team, this problem is much more exacerbated.

[rascal]

If the spurs can't get past the Lakers what the spurs do in a regular season game against the Celtics doesn't matter at all.

[Ginobilly]

If you start bad you will end bad, look at the Lakers last year, does the Spurs have any one on the Team Hungry like Kobe, that goes out and end every game with that winning passion.

Manu used to be. It seems to me at times that the big 3(or I should say big 4 with POP) are waiting for retirement. Manu, Tim, and Tony (and Pop) have already cemented their spots in the B. HOF. I think their satisfied with their 3 rings and ain't as hungry as they used to be. You could notice it in their body language, that they don't play with the same passion or intensity as in years past.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

Wallace vs Bonner oh ya cant wait

[easjer]

If I ever took this lackluster attitude to work or school I would be fired in a heart beat. I just had test thats wasn't very important to me passing my class. However I still wanted to keep my grade up so I tried my best to ace it.

Geeze,what ever happened to pride? What ever happened to that killer instinct, that hunger that championship teams posses? Are we not a team that wants to contend for the championship, or one of those teams that are satisfied just to make the playoffs. I had thought it was the first option, but maybe I'm proven wrong.

Why do some of you even watch these games if they realy don't seem to matter?

I'm sorry for the rant. Maybe I'm just way to old fashioned, and times have changed with this lackluster attitude towards everything. I'm just not used to it, so please bare with me.


God Almighty, what is difficult to understand about it being December? The season is 82 games long. Not 10, 12, 14. This is not a sprint. This is a long season that has to be managed especially carefully because our marquee players are of advanced age.

We saw exactly how far we can get when they are injured.

The goal is not (and has never been) to win every single game. The goal is to work the season with a view of the playoffs. You can't make it your goal to win every single game at the cost of everything else - everything else being the master strategy.

The master strategy accounts for a lot of things - team cohesion, team unity, offensive purpose and unity, health of the players, and peaking at the right time of the season (hint: it's not November or December or January) to go into the playoffs with all gears turning and working in smooth harmony.

You cannot get there unless you take the time to move the pieces around and see what combinations of players work best together, edge out the rough spots when you have combos that have to play together and aren't clicking (ie, RJ and Tony right now), give everyone time to learn the system and their places in it and to gain trust in each other, and above all, manage the minutes so everyone arrives healthy.

It's downright foolish to pursue a regular season victory over a team that isn't even in our conference, that we will see one more time this year unless all the pieces fall into place for both teams to meet again in the Finals, at the expense of the ultimate goals.

Winning against Boston (or going balls out every single freaking night) is not the goal. Winning the championship is.

Winning as many regular season games as possible doesn't matter as much as getting the pieces into place for the run at the playoffs (regular season records mean very little to the playoffs - you should know that). Unfortunately for you (and a bunch of other people that make me wonder if they've ever watched the Spurs ever) working out the puzzle and putting the pieces in place will potentially cost them wins. But that's ok, because they are a smart team that learns even in their losing.

[easjer]

If you start bad you will end bad, look at the Lakers last year, does the Spurs have any one on the Team Hungry like Kobe, that goes out and end every game with that winning passion.

I can think of at least one Spurs championship that proves that theory wrong. And multiple Finals appearances by other teams that decries it as well.

[Mr.Robinson]

Manu used to be. It seems to me at times that the big 3(or I should say big 4 with POP) are waiting for retirement. Manu, Tim, and Tony (and Pop) have already cemented their spots in the B. HOF. I think their satisfied with their 3 rings and ain't as hungry as they used to be. You could notice it in their body language, that they don't play with the same passion or intensity as in years past.

LOL Go kill yourself.

[Chomag]

God Almighty, what is difficult to understand about it being December? The season is 82 games long. Not 10, 12, 14. This is not a sprint. This is a long season that has to be managed especially carefully because our marquee players are of advanced age.

We saw exactly how far we can get when they are injured.

The goal is not (and has never been) to win every single game. The goal is to work the season with a view of the playoffs. You can't make it your goal to win every single game at the cost of everything else - everything else being the master strategy.

The master strategy accounts for a lot of things - team cohesion, team unity, offensive purpose and unity, health of the players, and peaking at the right time of the season (hint: it's not November or December or January) to go into the playoffs with all gears turning and working in smooth harmony.

You cannot get there unless you take the time to move the pieces around and see what combinations of players work best together, edge out the rough spots when you have combos that have to play together and aren't clicking (ie, RJ and Tony right now), give everyone time to learn the system and their places in it and to gain trust in each other, and above all, manage the minutes so everyone arrives healthy.

It's downright foolish to pursue a regular season victory over a team that isn't even in our conference, that we will see one more time this year unless all the pieces fall into place for both teams to meet again in the Finals, at the expense of the ultimate goals.

Winning against Boston (or going balls out every single freaking night) is not the goal. Winning the championship is.

Winning as many regular season games as possible doesn't matter as much as getting the pieces into place for the run at the playoffs (regular season records mean very little to the playoffs - you should know that). Unfortunately for you (and a bunch of other people that make me wonder if they've ever watched the Spurs ever) working out the puzzle and putting the pieces in place will potentially cost them wins. But that's ok, because they are a smart team that learns even in their losing.

Does this game win the championship for us. No,but its one step closer to that goal. The championship trophy is not just waiting there for the Spurs. They have to work to get to it. IT just seems silly to me that the season is to be taken for granted.

Injuries can happen to anyone at any given time. It's part of the territory of being in a heavy physical activity such as sports. If we have to constantly be paranoid and walking on eggs over injuries then we are already in trouble. If we are so scared about an injury we even play.

I'm not talking about us winning or losing this game. Win or lose as long as the Spurs "compete" that what matters most right now.

[VBM]

I think both sides of the argument are correct in this case. This game is just 1 of 82, and we're just getting into December. We have new pieces, and Spurs history shows that new players are notoriously slow in assimilating to the "Spurs Way" of playing. And obviously, health is the biggest need for this team entering the playoffs (I'd take a healthy 6-seeded Spurs team over a #2/#3 seed without Manu).

However, if our goal is a championship, we should place some emphasis on the teams that will be standing in our way to that championship. Boston is a legitimate title contender. We only play them twice in the regular season. This is a measuring stick game, not some game against Chicago or Oklahoma City. Pop has had nearly two full months (preseason and reg. season) to tinker with this lineup. We're not a finished product by any means, but we aren't fresh out of the box either. How we play on Thurs. should be taken as (somewhat) indicative of how we would matchup with these guys later down the line.

[#2!]

Pop said it very clearly a couple of seasons ago.. all you can really hope for is to be one of the 5 or 6 teams remaining at the end of the regular season with a chance to win it all. He's made it apparent that win-loss records or even home-court advantage aren't at the top of his agenda. I just hope to see the Spurs continuing to build on what they've accomplished in their previous games, specially on the defensive end.

I actually have a problem with this attitude that Pop has developed. He's saying that outside of having a playoff worthy record things are completely out of their hands.

Despite this being the path we took to the 2007 championship it was not how we reached the others. While the Spurs may have accepted luck's role in the process they did not make it a major part of the team's personality.

So even though I don't put too much stock into this particular game, I don't like that Pop, and even more so fans, do not acknowledge the fact that there is clearly a level of excitement for games between top teams.

[easjer]

I think both sides of the argument are correct in this case. This game is just 1 of 82, and we're just getting into December. We have new pieces, and Spurs history shows that new players are notoriously slow in assimilating to the "Spurs Way" of playing. And obviously, health is the biggest need for this team entering the playoffs (I'd take a healthy 6-seeded Spurs team over a #2/#3 seed without Manu).

However, if our goal is a championship, we should place some emphasis on the teams that will be standing in our way to that championship. Boston is a legitimate title contender. We only play them twice in the regular season. This is a measuring stick game, not some game against Chicago or Oklahoma City. Pop has had nearly two full months (preseason and reg. season) to tinker with this lineup. We're not a finished product by any means, but we aren't fresh out of the box either. How we play on Thurs. should be taken as (somewhat) indicative of how we would matchup with these guys later down the line.

That might be more true had the big 3 not all succumbed to injury early on. That threw off the rotations for multiple games, both when they were actually not playing and in terms of managing them when they returned.

Additionally, the old faithful barely played in pre-season because Pop was rotating out to figure out who would get the final roster spots. So you can't include pre-season in your tinkering analysis.

In reality, there have been a handful of games with the full roster at full strength to really tinker and try various combinations. And as has been pointed out, regular season games are not adequate predictors for Finals performances (recall 2007 when the Spurs were destroyed by the Cavs in regular season and promptly and easily swept them in the Finals). I might buy the measuring stick argument a bit more if it were applied to teams we might legitimately have to play through to get to the Finals; ie, the Lakers, the Mavs, Portland, Denver. And there is actual stake in those games in terms of possible homecourt advantage in a way that is way more unlikely in the Finals. Given how close the conference was last year, potential series tiebreakers could be more meaningful or important in the regular season.

Don't get me wrong, I want the Spurs to bitchslap the Celtics back to Boston. I'm just not going to be suicidal if they don't because I have realistic expectations for what this game means to the greater picture.

[VBM]

Don't get me wrong, I want the Spurs to bitchslap the Celtics back to Boston. I'm just not going to be suicidal if they don't because I have realistic expectations for what this game means to the greater picture.

Right, and I know most of the "it's too early to care" proponents share this sentiment. Obviously, one game doesn't make a season...that argument has merit (and good call on the Cleveland '07 reference). I guess what really bothers me is hearing some Spurs fans use that argument reminds me too much of the old Laker-fan "we'll coast in the reg. season and then flip the switch" talk. If the Spurs themselves aren't going to get too excited during the reg. season, I'd at least like to see the fans have more of the :ihit mentality than the :wakeup one...

[easjer]

I don't think they should just coast. I had that mentality last year and the flip was never switched.

I just recognize all the pieces they are juggling. A LOT of new faces that need to learn the system, a big adjustment to best utilizing the new talents and a lot of trust that needs to be built. Recovering from injuries. Etc, etc.

If they are half-assing it - get mad, be angry, whatever. That's a different story. Right now, it's about getting them to play well together and figure out what is working and what isn't. Right now, I'm happy if they string together a good half (hell, a fully solid quarter makes me tingly). If they get the win? Awesome. If they don't, but they put in the effort and you can see that they are getting things right? Awesome.

That takes me back to the Dallas game. I was really pleased after that game, because I thought the fourth quarter was brilliant. I always want to beat Dallas - I hate them. I consider that a long-standing rivalry game. But we lost. Probably weren't helped by the ludicrous number of turnovers, but I was still pleased, because the defense was clicking in the second half, and they played really well in the fourth to put themselves in a position to send the game to OT and possibly win.

THAT is what I'm looking for in November. Obviously, I want to win games. What's the point otherwise? Obviously I hope the tinkering doesn't result in a worse-than-usual record. But I'm going to be laid back because I get the larger goal. And the Spurs have the energy. They have the desire. It's evident to me that they are studying things and looking for ways to fix the problems and improve. That's what I want right now, and I have been a fan long enough to know that is what they need right now.

And honestly? I used to get really caught up in games. And I wasn't particularly happy. The games they won weren't highs - they were expected. And the games they lost had me wanting to punch something. And that's just stupid, imo. Because in the end? It's a basketball game. No sense in raising my blood pressure over it. I'm a fan to the core - but being a fan doesn't require me to be a drama queen and there are honestly more important things in life.

[Capt Bringdown]

You haven't been paying attention. The Spurs objectives for the regular season are eminently clear. They are to get to the playoffs healthy, mentally ready, and with something left in the tank. Popovich will never compromise any of these objectives to try to get a regular season win.


Nah, you weren't paying attention. Your response would make sense if I claimed that Spurs regular season goals aren't crystal clear. But I didn't:

The Spurs, well, it's getting harder and harder to say what objectives they have for the regular season other than staying healthy.

The best we can hope for is to get healthy and catch fire before the playoffs start.

[raspsa]

I actually have a problem with this attitude that Pop has developed. He's saying that outside of having a playoff worthy record things are completely out of their hands.

Despite this being the path we took to the 2007 championship it was not how we reached the others. While the Spurs may have accepted luck's role in the process they did not make it a major part of the team's personality.

So even though I don't put too much stock into this particular game, I don't like that Pop, and even more so fans, do not acknowledge the fact that there is clearly a level of excitement for games between top teams.

I don't think that's exactly Pop's attitude. If I read him right, he's saying that entering the playoffs, hopefully all the work done in the RS has produced a competitive team. Other factors also play a part, specially injuries, officiating, seeding, HCA, personal/family problems, luck, etc. But the players and coaches can only hope to execute their gameplan and hope they're as prepared as possible.. then its a "crapshoot" is the term I recall Pop using but its a crapshoot that thay prepared meticulously for all season long to win.. bottom line though is its still a game and no guarantees given. Pop is the most pragmatic guy I know.

[benefactor]

Mrs. SFIE kicking the knowledge in this thread....:tu

[easjer]

:lol

[dbestpro]

This is just another game for the Spurs to continue their evolution. The Spurs of March will be better than the Spurs of today. This game really is no more important than any other game against an eastern conference foe, In fact, when you get right down to it a win over Memphis at this time of year is more important as such wins can be more helpful with playoff tie breakers.

[TD 21]

If I ever took this lackluster attitude to work or school I would be fired in a heart beat. I just had test thats wasn't very important to me passing my class. However I still wanted to keep my grade up so I tried my best to ace it.

Geeze,what ever happened to pride? What ever happened to that killer instinct, that hunger that championship teams posses? Are we not a team that wants to contend for the championship, or one of those teams that are satisfied just to make the playoffs. I had thought it was the first option, but maybe I'm proven wrong.

Why do some of you even watch these games if they realy don't seem to matter?

I'm sorry for the rant. Maybe I'm just way to old fashioned, and times have changed with this lackluster attitude towards everything. I'm just not used to it, so please bare with me.

I agree. Spurs fans are so concerned about "not over-hyping one game" or "putting too much value into the regular season" because they've been conditioned by the organization to believe this and because they've seen this franchise win 4 championships. But those days are gone. This team needs to re-establish itself as team to be reckoned with. Not as a team on the periphery, a maybe-if-every-last-thing-breaks-right, none of that. Let's be honest, that hasn't been the case in the last two calendar years.

What separates the Spurs from the Celtics? Attitude. It's definitely not talent, because the Spurs got them beat there. It's attitude. The Celtics are out to win every game and generally play with an intensity that personifies that. I'm not saying that if the Spurs lose we should get carried away and write them off, but it would be disappointing and somewhat telling. It's the Spurs who'll be well rested, at home and playing better ball at the moment. They're also healthy, so there is no excuse. This should be a win and as fans we should expect a win. I'm sick and tired of this loser attitude from the majority of the fan base, this "well we're playing an elite team, so we shouldn't expect to win".

[Sisk]

Spurstalk is preparing itself for epic meltdown....

Seriously.. this is like the 10th thread about how this game is important, if it's important, why it's huge, if we lose we don't win a championship, etc. etc. etc. :rolleyes

i hope we win just so this forum doesn't go apeshit and start jumping off of cliffs again

[TD 21]

Seriously.. this is like the 10th thread about how this game is important, if it's important, why it's huge, if we lose we don't win a championship, etc. etc. etc. :rolleyes

i hope we win just so this forum doesn't go apeshit and start jumping off of cliffs again

Let's just concede before it even begins. We have no chance against the almighty Celtics. In fact, let's just concede every game against every good team. How can you (not necessarily you, the universal you on SpursTalk) on the one hand have that attitude, then on the other say that this is a championship caliber team? Regular season or not, if this team can't be expected to beat an elite team ever, then they're not a championship caliber team.

How about this for a novel idea: Pop shortens the rotation, plays the key players significant minutes and the Spurs go all out to win this game?

[SouthTexasRancher]

For Pop it is simply 1 of 82. Yes, he'd like to win but, he won't commit hari kari if we lose. It's the building to the winning of the last game in June that matters.

For Boston, it will be statement time. KG realizes he has never beaten the Spurs when it counts, when the Spurs har completely injury free.

For the fans of both teams it will be fun to watch. Better to be at the game that having to put up with Sir Charles' bullshit!

[duhoh]

If you start bad you will end bad, look at the Lakers last year, does the Spurs have any one on the Team Hungry like Kobe, that goes out and end every game with that winning passion.

http://www.motleycrow.com/ImageHost/o-rly.jpg

[raspsa]

Its a marathon, not a sprint. Pop is simply pacing the Spurs, learning how to best utilize his players and dealing with any injuries that crop up now and then. The [lan would be to peak as they approach the playoffs.

[raspsa]

I have a good feeling about this game.

[Sisk]

Let's just concede before it even begins. We have no chance against the almighty Celtics. In fact, let's just concede every game against every good team. How can you (not necessarily you, the universal you on SpursTalk) on the one hand have that attitude, then on the other say that this is a championship caliber team? Regular season or not, if this team can't be expected to beat an elite team ever, then they're not a championship caliber team.

How about this for a novel idea: Pop shortens the rotation, plays the key players significant minutes and the Spurs go all out to win this game?

? i never said anything about conceding the game or that we have no chance, we do have a great chance, especially being at home

my point is, that IF we lose, this forum will go crazy and start talking about trading everyone and restarting the franchise (ok, i'm exaggerating, but you know what i mean)

i think the Spurs will win this game, as we're playing much better recently.. just stating a ST observation as of late

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Spurs will win. I don't get the hype over Boston. They really aren't that good if your team doesn't back down.

Play physical and shut KG up from the get go. They just feed of his arrogance and energy.

[024]

celtics are in a better place right now than the spurs. i don't expect much since jefferson is still finding his place in the offense and ginobili only showing glimpses of his old self. all the celtics need to do is shut down parker and duncan and it's pretty much over. spurs bench may keep it close but the celtics bench isn't that bad either.

[VivaPopovich]

Pop is playing too many different lineups and his substitutions are sporadic and unpredictable.

The 5 guys that are going to be playing together at the end of the game must be playing together for the majority of the game. There are so many new players and it's more important than ever for this team to develop their rhythm and they will never get a chance to do this with Pop's rotations.

[raspsa]

I hope the long break between games doesn't rob some of the momentum the Spurs have developed..

[SpurNation]

Optomistic myself. I can see the Spurs having a great shot at winning the game.

[austN Spur]

O man did i wake up this morning excited. This should be a good game. Got to love that boston hardwood floor. my old mans favorite team. so ready for this game. GSG. gots to get to class:toast

[alfahdlan]

Watch out for manu on spurs-celtics game. Once he makes jefferson, blair, bonner, and mason involved, its a win.

[benefactor]

Let's just concede before it even begins. We have no chance against the almighty Celtics. In fact, let's just concede every game against every good team. How can you (not necessarily you, the universal you on SpursTalk) on the one hand have that attitude, then on the other say that this is a championship caliber team? Regular season or not, if this team can't be expected to beat an elite team ever, then they're not a championship caliber team.

How about this for a novel idea: Pop shortens the rotation, plays the key players significant minutes and the Spurs go all out to win this game?
Sounds great. Let's just play Duncan, Parker and Manu all 40+ minutes in a game that means nothing.

[LOL@MavsFan]

If you start bad you will end bad, look at the Lakers last year, does the Spurs have any one on the Team Hungry like Kobe, that goes out and end every game with that winning passion.


Yeah Kobe has a passion other things too....like gizzing in white women's faces.

[LOL@MavsFan]

Sounds great. Let's just play Duncan, Parker and Manu all 40+ minutes in a game that means nothing.


Yeah good idea since this is a "true test".....it's just another regular season game. Nothing to see here.

[easjer]

Let's just concede before it even begins. We have no chance against the almighty Celtics. In fact, let's just concede every game against every good team. How can you (not necessarily you, the universal you on SpursTalk) on the one hand have that attitude, then on the other say that this is a championship caliber team? Regular season or not, if this team can't be expected to beat an elite team ever, then they're not a championship caliber team.

How about this for a novel idea: Pop shortens the rotation, plays the key players significant minutes and the Spurs go all out to win this game?

:rolleyes

NOBODY is conceding or arguing that they shouldn't play the game with focus and intensity. NOBODY is saying that the Spurs should make no effort.

For fuck's sake, READ what is being said.

This game is NOT a test. NO game in NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, or JANUARY is a test of the championship-readiness or capability of this team.

The novel idea you propose? Is a TERRIBLE idea precisely because it is EXACTLY the WRONG mentality to have. There is no reason to go balls-out to win this game. I might, might give you that against the Lakers, maybe. If I were drunk. But certainly not against the Celtics, a team that has been wavering of late and isn't even in our fucking conference. This game means nothing more than any other game and there is absolutely no reason to interrupt the process of team-building (you know, that thing that will ACTUALLY determine whether or not they are able to acheive championship levels, as opposed to a fucking meaningless hype game in fucking December) to 'make a statement' when what needs to happen is to continue to work the pieces.

This game may be an ideal time to try some things out against a better team and to see how well their defense is really holding up, but that's it.

[21_Blessings]

:flag:

Win this one for your old pals in forum blue and gold.

[benefactor]

Careful there girl...if you disagree with TD 21 he will accuse you of lacking respect for him because you have a high post count and he doesn't.

[tp2021]

:flag:

Win this one for your old pals in forum blue and gold.

Blue and gold?

[Mel_13]

Blue and gold?

Apparently so.

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/forum-blue/

[SpurNation]

:flag:

Win this one for your old pals in forum blue and gold.

Anticipating HCA in the process of a finals match, all the while anticipating the Spurs not making it to the finals via WC? :nope

[easjer]

Careful there girl...if you disagree with TD 21 he will accuse you of lacking respect for him because you have a high post count and he doesn't.

Oh, I assure you (and him!) that my lack of respect has not a whit to do with post counts.

[VBM]

Sounds great. Let's just play Duncan, Parker and Manu all 40+ minutes in a game that means nothing.

Cmon facto, you're better than that. The only championship caliber team we've played this season are the Dallas Mavericks (<insert all "what, Mavs title contender" jokes here>). I don't mind experimenting with different lineups and such and resting players against scrubs. Hell, we play Sacramento and Charlotte next week...let's bench the stars for those two games to even things out.

But Boston is a team that I think we should go all out to beat. The fact that they aren't in our conference doesn't matter...if we're thinking championship this year, odds are Boston will be the ones representing the East. We won't play them again until late March. Let's get an idea of how we match up with our main weapons, so we can have that nugget of knowledge as we get closer to the trading deadline and try to figure out if any moves will need to be made.

[easjer]

Looking that far ahead is fool's gold at it's finest. If you want to have this conversation in March, then I'll likely be on the opposite side. In March, the team should be gelled and primed for a solid end of season run towards the playoffs. In March, we'll actually know whether either team is looking like a contender. In March, we'll playing them on the road and that could be a big test and a statement game all rolled up in one fuzzy, potentially heart-warming package.

December is way to early for that shit.

[VBM]

Looking that far ahead is fool's gold at it's finest. If you want to have this conversation in March, then I'll likely be on the opposite side. In March, the team should be gelled and primed for a solid end of season run towards the playoffs. In March, we'll actually know whether either team is looking like a contender. In March, we'll playing them on the road and that could be a big test and a statement game all rolled up in one fuzzy, potentially heart-warming package.

December is way to early for that shit.

Just looking ahead, how's this for an end of March sched?

3/24 - @ Lakers
3/26 - Cleveland
3/28 - @ Boston

and just for kicks

4/2 - Orlando
4/4 - @ Lakers

I guess my concern is this...if we go through this sched. in late March and lose a majority of these games, we're stuck with the players we have. Pop likely would have found his set rotation by then, so there wouldn't be much he could do. So when we have these opportunities to play championship-caliber teams early, I think we should take the opportunity to play them as if it were a playoff game, so we know for sure what our weaknesses are, and we can address them on the trade market if need be.

[SpurNation]

Just looking ahead, how's this for an end of March sched?

3/24 - @ Lakers
3/26 - Cleveland
3/28 - @ Boston

and just for kicks

4/2 - Orlando
4/4 - @ Lakers

I guess my concern is this...if we go through this sched. in late March and lose a majority of these games, we're stuck with the players we have. Pop likely would have found his set rotation by then, so there wouldn't be much he could do. So when we have these opportunities to play championship-caliber teams early, I think we should take the opportunity to play them as if it were a playoff game, so we know for sure what our weaknesses are, and we can address them on the trade market if need be.

Throw in that mix 7 B2B's in March and April. That's over half of the total B2B's for the entire season in just 2 months at the end of the season.

The end is going to be rough. Does that make it more important to win now regardless who the team plays?

Interesting.

This may be more of a game of attrition because of the future more so than a test of who they are.

[easjer]

It's not a bad theory, it's just failing to address the problem of the rotations. Yes, in March they should be set. But in December they are still very much in flux. I suppose Pop could play what he envisions the rotations to be, but that has little meaning right now when the players are still (due to injury) feeling each other out and playing tentatively with each other.

Tony and RJ are not comfortable with each other and RJ is not being efficiently utilized. So if they play what is expected to be a set rotation in March and as an example, Tony and RJ are on court together for say, 28 minutes . . . what does that tell us now, except that Tony needs to learn how to set up RJ, because he's underutilizing him and reverting to roles that are more comfortable for him?

Even if you put the players out on the court, they are not playing to capacity together yet. So you aren't really going to get any kind of vision or true insight into how they will look, because they aren't there yet. Even if Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili play 35+ minutes, that doesn't give real, accurate insight into the championship quality of this group, because we already know they can play together.

We are still trying to work out how to get RJ and Dice and Blair into that picture regularly, while stepping back from Bonner and Finley and Mason (and are still figuring out how best to utilize these players in limited roles, and indeed, if they can perform at high levels in limited minutes. So far, the answer has been a relieving 'yes' but it's not done yet). Even if you throw them out there in the combos Pop is hoping to see in March, even if you play balls-out . . . it won't be real, because they will only continue reverting to what they know. Tony knows how Timmy and Manu play and how to get them the ball. He doesn't yet know how to use RJ in anything other than a Bowen capacity, and they haven't yet come to rely on Dice's lovely jumper.

So what you would see isn't how this team will look come trade deadline, or even how we could hope to see them - you'd only see them trying to make the game of the last couple of years work with players who are uncertain of their roles in both offense and defense. If they have a good night- they could win. But they won't have made any progress towards adjusting the game to include and utilize the new players and they won't have made any progress towards team chemistry and trust. They'll just be doing what they've done in the past, which hasn't been good enough, only with new people. Only the new people won't be used to their potential and their talents will be wasted.

Granted one game may not set them back - that would be building up a single game too much in the opposite direction. But this is when they need to learn and they need to branch out. And I'd much rather see a loss with the new guys on the court and Tony attempting to set up RJ and having people out of place a few times than a win with the Big 3 going balls to the wall. Because that only benefits their record minutely and gives fans something to feel complacent about.

If the team is going to be a legitimate contender for the title and not just a good team who could far if they stay healthy, then they have to learn to make the adjustments and they have to work out how best to adapt to the new skills they have. And that is what takes time, patience, work together and actual game experience, and that's why this game isn't a benchmark game, a measuring stick game, a statement game or an overly important game. It's a great learning opportunity game because Boston is one of the better teams in the league, but that's the only way I can view it.

[benefactor]

Cmon facto, you're better than that. The only championship caliber team we've played this season are the Dallas Mavericks (<insert all "what, Mavs title contender" jokes here>). I don't mind experimenting with different lineups and such and resting players against scrubs. Hell, we play Sacramento and Charlotte next week...let's bench the stars for those two games to even things out.

But Boston is a team that I think we should go all out to beat. The fact that they aren't in our conference doesn't matter...if we're thinking championship this year, odds are Boston will be the ones representing the East. We won't play them again until late March. Let's get an idea of how we match up with our main weapons, so we can have that nugget of knowledge as we get closer to the trading deadline and try to figure out if any moves will need to be made.
I'm pretty much with easjer here bro. Even if we do play the important players/role players extended minutes, it won't tell us much because this team is not yet where it needs to be chemistry-wise to give us an accurate sample. Hell, this is only Manu's second game back.

Anyway...I was being overly sarcastic mainly to give shit to TD 21. He thinks that Manu and Tony should just tough out their injuries instead of resting.

[mingus]

the true test game wil be when we play an elite team on the road and beat them. you could argue the Mavs, or Portland are elite, i suppose, but for me it's b/w LA, Boston, Denver, Cleveland, and Orlando.

the reason is i think this Spurs taem can already beat any of the elite at home. i don't think it porves anything to any of the naysayers and doubters that they can. where people doubt this team is in its ability to beat teams consistently in front of an opposing teams crowd and on the other teams homecourt. when the Spurs were Elite they could go into anotehr stadium with confidence and quiet the crowd. when this Spurs team is given the opportunity to do that, and takes advantage of it, this team will start to turn the corner. they'll have to do it consistently - put together maybe a string of wins against the Elite when they're away - in order to turn corner completely and re-insert themselves in that Elite group.

right now, it's about building confidence and chemistry so that they will be able to accopmlish that. they've got to show the same consistency and intensity on defense they've been showing over the past 6-7 games, they've got to keep building comfort with eachother on offense, and they've got to find out who will have key roles and small roles, or no roles, on this team.

basically, this game will probably mean more to the Celtics than it will to the Spurs. but even then, the Celtics and everyone else are aware the Spurs aren't at the top of their game collectively or individually so they'll be taking that into consideration.

[HarlemHeat37]

If we're struggling during the Rodeo Trip, then we'll worry..

[Capt Bringdown]

Interesting thread that IMO showcases a central problem with the Spurs the last few years. Simply put, the league has moved on, the bar has been raised, and the Spurs no longer have the legs to keep up. The Spurs old method of waiting until after the all-star break to start coming together is no longer valid.

The regular season matters, and teams that play hard during the regular season and fight for the HCA have a distinct advantage over competitors who believe they can flip a switch.

[HarlemHeat37]

No, they don't..nothing has changed in that regard..

The Spurs are worse because Duncan is old, Ginobili is old and constantly injured, Bowen is gone, Horry is gone, Finley isn't the same guy..I don't know why some fans seem to think something is different in the league..

yes, this year's Lakers team is potentially better than any other team we faced during our run, but it doesn't change the reasons for why the Spurs are worse than before..

[easjer]

Interesting thread that IMO showcases a central problem with the Spurs the last few years. Simply put, the league has moved on, the bar has been raised, and the Spurs no longer have the legs to keep up. The Spurs old method of waiting until after the all-star break to start coming together is no longer valid.

The regular season matters, and teams that play hard during the regular season and fight for the HCA have a distinct advantage over competitors who believe they can flip a switch.

It has nothing to do with playing hard for homecourt advantage or simply flipping a switch.

The Spurs are starting to come together - but it is a process and they will not be together in a championship capacity until later in the season.

That hasn't changed in recent years. But it's misleading to look at this team and what they are currently doing and to read this thread and what we are saying and argue that the Spurs are just trying to coast until later in the season.

They are trying to put the pieces together now - but doing it correctly means potentially sacrificing a few wins now so that they can be playing their best basketball later - that basketball being trust on offense, utilizing players to their best advantage, being crisp and in place on defense and knowing which lineups to use under a variety of circumstances. They have to take this time now to figure that shit out if you want them to have a legitimate shot at playing in May and beyond.

The way to do it correctly is to have patience and let them build, rather than insist they go all out to get a win Thursday or to fight for HCA.

[ducks]

is this april?

[Capt Bringdown]

No, they don't..nothing has changed in that regard..
Really? Hard to argue with the Celtics and Lakers titles isn't it?
Just as it was hard to argue with our title runs.


I don't know why some fans seem to think something is different in the league..

The league always changes, pay attention. And it's not an either/or situation: the Spurs have gotten older and the league has changed.

[carib]

We say this is only December but there are coaches out there that are being relieved from there jobs in the NBA.

[easjer]

The relevance of that being . . . what?

You think Pop is going to be fired? Over a game against an Eastern conf. team in December?

Ok, then.

[z0sa]

I agree its a test. But I don't think it means much. Runners in a marathon have to climb hills. Over the course of the season, when these games are piling up and both the Spurs and other teams have a majority of the season behind them, they will begin to mean more and more. Near the end, it will probably be a sprint to the finish if everything goes well. Hopefully the Spurs are right there.

Like said, it's only December folks. Remember 2007, right? right??

[TD 21]

? i never said anything about conceding the game or that we have no chance, we do have a great chance, especially being at home

my point is, that IF we lose, this forum will go crazy and start talking about trading everyone and restarting the franchise (ok, i'm exaggerating, but you know what i mean)

i think the Spurs will win this game, as we're playing much better recently.. just stating a ST observation as of late


You may not have said that, but you inferred that with your defeatist attitude.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm not suggesting to take it to that extent, but this game should be taken seriously and not just brushed off as "just another game".


Sounds great. Let's just play Duncan, Parker and Manu all 40+ minutes in a game that means nothing.

You're right, they might all need a month off to recover if they play extended minutes one night. Never mind the fact that they've all missed games, had their minutes monitored more closely than ever and the Spurs have had plenty of off days early in the season.

This game does mean something. It means something for the Spurs confidence and psyche, to let them know that they can not just compete, but beat, elite teams again. That's important and because of all the factors I mentioned, I see no reason why Duncan and Parker can't play around 40 minutes and Ginobili between 30-35.

Look at how ultra conservative the majority of Spurs fans have become, as if the key players can never play extended minutes in the regular season, yet old men like Bryant, Nowitzki and Pierce are routinely playing extended minutes.

[TD 21]

:rolleyes

NOBODY is conceding or arguing that they shouldn't play the game with focus and intensity. NOBODY is saying that the Spurs should make no effort.

For fuck's sake, READ what is being said.

This game is NOT a test. NO game in NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, or JANUARY is a test of the championship-readiness or capability of this team.

The novel idea you propose? Is a TERRIBLE idea precisely because it is EXACTLY the WRONG mentality to have. There is no reason to go balls-out to win this game. I might, might give you that against the Lakers, maybe. If I were drunk. But certainly not against the Celtics, a team that has been wavering of late and isn't even in our fucking conference. This game means nothing more than any other game and there is absolutely no reason to interrupt the process of team-building (you know, that thing that will ACTUALLY determine whether or not they are able to acheive championship levels, as opposed to a fucking meaningless hype game in fucking December) to 'make a statement' when what needs to happen is to continue to work the pieces.

This game may be an ideal time to try some things out against a better team and to see how well their defense is really holding up, but that's it.

You may not all be saying that directly, but you're inferring it. Acting like this game is no more important than playing the Kings and pretending as if the big three would need a month off it they were to play extended minutes one night. If that's the attitude you're going to have, then you're basically conceding a loss, because that won't get it done against the Celtics.

If this was 03-08, I'd agree with you. But what's taken place the last two calendar years is a fall from grace. I think it's important for this group, particularly with how they've struggled early in the season against good competition, to beat a team like the Celtics, especially when you consider all the factors in their favor.

So going all out to send a fucking message for once (as opposed to rolling over) is not "team building" how? So many of you have been fucking brainwashed by the "Spurs way" of doing things. Just because they're the team you go for not everything they do is automatically right.


Careful there girl...if you disagree with TD 21 he will accuse you of lacking respect for him because you have a high post count and he doesn't.

That's only losers like you with high posts counts who band together in every thread where someone isn't spouting the company line. Shit, am I supposed to apologize for having an opinion that isn't "Spurs like"? Because after all, this franchise has won every championship in the history of the league and they're never wrong in their approach to anything.

[HarlemHeat37]

Really? Hard to argue with the Celtics and Lakers titles isn't it?
Just as it was hard to argue with our title runs.

What's the argument though?..

talent always gets you wins though..it's not like this team wasn't winning a lot of games AND using the same approach, where the RRT brought the team together..the difference now is that the team isn't as good, so the wins are harder to come by..

every team uses long road trips to come together, not just the Spurs..



The league always changes, pay attention. And it's not an either/or situation: the Spurs have gotten older and the league has changed.

the league hasn't changed since 2007, at least not in a significant way..where do you think it has changed?..the last time the league significantly changed was in 2005, where the post-handcheck era began..

the Celtics won a title using the exact same style that brought us titles(as KG and Rivers both have stated), they stayed healthy and had the talent to do it..

the Lakers of last year didn't do anything that stood out stylistically..

[raspsa]

Its called "pounding the rock" and its worked well enough to earn Pop s 4 championships. Just enjoy the ride.

[quentin_compson]

I think as far as RS games go, it is a bigger game than most, because Boston might be the best team in the East. Granted, we played the Mavs twice, and they have a similar record as the Celtics right now, but I think we'd all agree that Dallas isn't the type of contender Boston is.

Last season's win against the Celtics might have been the best game we played in the regular season. Still, it's only the beginning of December, we already had some injuries to key players, and Pop and TP still haven't figured out how to use RJ more consistently on the offensive end.

I'm looking forward to the game, as it's always fun to watch our guys matching with (other) elite teams, but I won't read too much into it, regardless of the outcome.

[benefactor]

You may not all be saying that directly, but you're inferring it. Acting like this game is no more important than playing the Kings and pretending as if the big three would need a month off it they were to play extended minutes one night. If that's the attitude you're going to have, then you're basically conceding a loss, because that won't get it done against the Celtics.

If this was 03-08, I'd agree with you. But what's taken place the last two calendar years is a fall from grace. I think it's important for this group, particularly with how they've struggled early in the season against good competition, to beat a team like the Celtics, especially when you consider all the factors in their favor.

So going all out to send a fucking message for once (as opposed to rolling over) is not "team building" how? So many of you have been fucking brainwashed by the "Spurs way" of doing things. Just because they're the team you go for not everything they do is automatically right.

Lol...I can always depend on you to play the "brainwashed" card. It's almost as good as your post count conspiracy theory.

Nobody is saying they want to lose. That is just another link in your long chain of broad brushed assumptions that you love to make. I got an idea...how about actually being honest about what has gone on in the last two seasons instead of trying to make it sound like not playing hard early has had anything to do with...well...anything. Last season there were a lot of injuries both early and late in the year. The regular season the year before we were fine...all the way up to the point where Manu injured his ankle in the playoffs. The last two seasons had much more to do with unfortunate circumstances than some sort of "fall from grace". You say you would agree with the philosophy if it was 03-08, but now you wouldn't? That makes zero sense. Everyone was younger then and they had a core group that had been together for several years. It's more important now to play them more minutes to prove a point now that they are older...and couple that with half the team being new? Lmao.

The thing you are not getting is that you don't send any messages with this game or any game at this point in the season. If this game had some sort of conference or division implications I might give you some rope...but in the grand scheme this game doesn't mean a lot. Do I want win? Sure I do. Do I want to play Duncan and Parker 40 minutes or Manu 35 minutes to get that win. Nope.


That's only losers like you with high posts counts who band together in every thread where someone isn't spouting the company line. Shit, am I supposed to apologize for having an opinion that isn't "Spurs like"? Because after all, this franchise has won every championship in the history of the league and they're never wrong in their approach to anything.
:lmao......:rolleyes

[anakha]

There's a post count conspiracy?

[VBM]

Not to put another member on blast (I don't have the post count to do that...kidding), but posts like these are the reason I hate to buy into the "who cares about the (early) reg. season..."


As Long As They Are Competitive, and Show Improvement Ill be Happy whether They Win Or lose..... Go SPURS!

I don't care how well they play...I'll be damned if I'm ever happy after a Spurs loss...

[benefactor]

There's a post count conspiracy?
According to this there is:

That's only losers like you with high posts counts who band together in every thread where someone isn't spouting the company line.
It's him against us dammit!

[benefactor]

Not to put another member on blast (I don't have the post count to do that...kidding), but posts like these are the reason I hate to buy into the "who cares about the (early) reg. season..."



I don't care how well they play...I'll be damned if I'm ever happy after a Spurs loss...
It depends for me. Happy is probably not a good word. I would go with something like, "not quite as disappointed". The Mavs overtime game is a good example.

[VBM]

It depends for me. Happy is probably not a good word. I would go with something like, "not quite as disappointed". The Mavs overtime game is a good example.

Yeah, but even in that one, we made so many mistakes down the stretch, and it's just hard for me to chalk that up to not being familiar with each other (at the end of the day, it's just basketball).

I guess this argument is getting run into the ground...like I said from the jump, both schools of thought are valid IMO...it just comes down to each particular fan in how they view the importance of these games. Gotta say I'm really looking forward to the pulse of this site once this game is over with, win or lose...

[UnWantedTheory]

Does this game win the championship for us. No,but its one step closer to that goal. The championship trophy is not just waiting there for the Spurs. They have to work to get to it. IT just seems silly to me that the season is to be taken for granted.

Injuries can happen to anyone at any given time. It's part of the territory of being in a heavy physical activity such as sports. If we have to constantly be paranoid and walking on eggs over injuries then we are already in trouble. If we are so scared about an injury we even play.

I'm not talking about us winning or losing this game. Win or lose as long as the Spurs "compete" that what matters most right now.

Did you think they have not competed thus far? If so, what have they been doing then?
You are not understanding what is being said and are obviously at a loss concerning the Spurs situation.

[UnWantedTheory]

According to this there is:

It's him against us dammit!

Dear Benefactor,

I am writing you sir in an attempt to gain access into your high post count conspiracy group. I truly feel I can bring something special and significant to your future conspiracies, regardless of my low post count. I know what an esteemed individual as yourself might be thinking sir, but my post count will be a wondrous and formidable sight one day sir...If only you will give me the chance.


Grassyass,
UnwantedTheory

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::flag::lobt2:

[benefactor]

You're talking to the wrong poster bro. The problems I have with certain posters has nothing to do with post count and everything to do with proper use of the grey matter in between their ears.

You'll have to talk to TD 21. It's his theory.

[all_heart]

It's going to be a good game, a really tough one at that. I'd like to see the Spurs play 4 quarters of good all-around ball and dig this one out. It would be a good confidence booster, one that takes the team to a higher level they are capable of. And of course it would let us fans feel better too!:flag:

[benefactor]

I like the idea of playing solid, fundamental defense to get the win instead of trying to win with star power.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this will be a spurs win...

[easjer]

Lol...I can always depend on you to play the "brainwashed" card. It's almost as good as your post count conspiracy theory.

Nobody is saying they want to lose. That is just another link in your long chain of broad brushed assumptions that you love to make. I got an idea...how about actually being honest about what has gone on in the last two seasons instead of trying to make it sound like not playing hard early has had anything to do with...well...anything. Last season there were a lot of injuries both early and late in the year. The regular season the year before we were fine...all the way up to the point where Manu injured his ankle in the playoffs. The last two seasons had much more to do with unfortunate circumstances than some sort of "fall from grace". You say you would agree with the philosophy if it was 03-08, but now you wouldn't? That makes zero sense. Everyone was younger then and they had a core group that had been together for several years. It's more important now to play them more minutes to prove a point now that they are older...and couple that with half the team being new? Lmao.

The thing you are not getting is that you don't send any messages with this game or any game at this point in the season. If this game had some sort of conference or division implications I might give you some rope...but in the grand scheme this game doesn't mean a lot. Do I want win? Sure I do. Do I want to play Duncan and Parker 40 minutes or Manu 35 minutes to get that win. Nope.

:lmao......:rolleyes

You saved me from having to type it out yet again. Merci beaucoup!

And brainwashed to believe whatever the organization tells me to believe? :snort:

Sure. Ask my husband about that one, will you?

It has nothing to do with what the organization says, but with my own observation of the Spurs over a 15+ year period, and what works and what doesn't.

[easjer]

I like the idea of playing solid, fundamental defense to get the win instead of trying to win with star power.

Again, thanks.:whine

Right on.

[mogrovejo]

The Celtics have been playing bellow their level in some aspects of the game - rebounding, perimeter defence (especially at the point of attack), closing out on, outside shooting.- Their effort isn't consistent through the games and Ainge has called them out (as he said, they only start playing once they have their backs against the wall). The Spurs are playing sub-par basketball as well. I expect the team that shoots the ball better from beyond the line to win it, but this game will be pretty meaningless, IMO.

[TD 21]

Lol...I can always depend on you to play the "brainwashed" card. It's almost as good as your post count conspiracy theory.

Nobody is saying they want to lose. That is just another link in your long chain of broad brushed assumptions that you love to make. I got an idea...how about actually being honest about what has gone on in the last two seasons instead of trying to make it sound like not playing hard early has had anything to do with...well...anything. Last season there were a lot of injuries both early and late in the year. The regular season the year before we were fine...all the way up to the point where Manu injured his ankle in the playoffs. The last two seasons had much more to do with unfortunate circumstances than some sort of "fall from grace". You say you would agree with the philosophy if it was 03-08, but now you wouldn't? That makes zero sense. Everyone was younger then and they had a core group that had been together for several years. It's more important now to play them more minutes to prove a point now that they are older...and couple that with half the team being new? Lmao.

The thing you are not getting is that you don't send any messages with this game or any game at this point in the season. If this game had some sort of conference or division implications I might give you some rope...but in the grand scheme this game doesn't mean a lot. Do I want win? Sure I do. Do I want to play Duncan and Parker 40 minutes or Manu 35 minutes to get that win. Nope.

:lmao......:rolleyes

Post count conspiracy theory?

You are brainwashed. No original opinions whatsoever, just repeating the company line over and over.

You act like the big three would need a month to recover if they played extended minutes in one game. So either you're essentially willing to concede the game or you think playing them low minutes will get it done against a team of this caliber? It's not about not playing hard (that's never been a problem in the Duncan era), it's about actually treating this game as more than just one of 82: because it is. Whether the Spurs or you want to admit it or not, it is. This is bigger than playing the Kings, even if it only counts for one game in the standings. When the Spurs were at their peak and were the team to beat, games like this, regular season / early winter didn't mean much. But this isn't 03-07 and the Spurs are no longer the hunted; they're the hunter. I don't care what they've accomplished in the path, this particular version of the team hasn't had a truly significant win yet. This would be one.

It's not about sending messages, either. It's about confidence and psyche and this team leaving the arena tonight knowing that they can beat an elite team. I'm so sick of the defeatist/deferential attitude that's gone on the past two years with this team. They speak of wanting to win another championship, then they roll over virtually every time they face an elite team.

Again, why can't they play that many minutes one time? Would they die? Old men like Bryant, Nowitzki and Pierce do it regularly and yet still have enough gas left in the tank to make significant contributions in the playoffs. I'm not suggesting that the Spurs do that, but certain games you play to win moreso than you do just to see how much you can get away with. This is one of those games.



You saved me from having to type it out yet again. Merci beaucoup!

And brainwashed to believe whatever the organization tells me to believe? :snort:

Sure. Ask my husband about that one, will you?

It has nothing to do with what the organization says, but with my own observation of the Spurs over a 15+ year period, and what works and what doesn't.


It's a different time. This isn't 03-07 and what worked then won't necessarily work now. It used to be other teams had to measure up to the Spurs in hyped up regular season games; now it's the other way around.

[kbrury]

The battle has begun....again

[Scola]

What is the health status for tonight's game? Is everyone at 100%?
(I've missed the past 2/3 games for the spurs)

[Mel_13]

It's not about not playing hard (that's never been a problem in the Duncan era), it's about actually treating this game as more than just one of 82: because it is. Whether the Spurs or you want to admit it or not, it is.

No it's not, it's just your opinion that it is. An opinion clearly not shared by the leadership of the team.

[duncan228]

What is the health status for tonight's game? Is everyone at 100%?
(I've missed the past 2/3 games for the spurs)

Mason Jr. is probable, everyone else is okay.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3883660&postcount=23

[Scola]

Mason Jr. is probable, everyone else is okay.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3883660&postcount=23

Thanks a bunch! I hate seeing a game being decided by injuries. Hopefully its a close game but the spurs take it towards the end. :flag:

[TD 21]

No it's not, it's just your opinion that it is. An opinion clearly not shared by the leadership of the team.

You don't think deep down that the players on the Spurs feel differently than what they say publicly going into games like this? They wouldn't be the competitors they are if they didn't. I'm not suggesting they treat this like a finals games, but I'd imagine when you play 82 regular season games every year and you've been in the league a lot of years, like most of the Spurs have been, the majority of them are monotonous. So when you play a contender like the Celtics, whom you only play twice are a year and it's nationally televised and hyped up almost a week in advance, naturally I'd suspect this to mean a little something extra.

This is the mentality of many of you people: I'd like to win, but only on terms that more than likely won't permit the Spurs to beat a team the caliber of the Celtics. Meaning, limit every player's key minutes, even if only playing them but a handful more than their averages would significantly upgrade the chances of winning this game. That's great logic. Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. Either you want to see this game treated with more meaning than your average regular game, or you're essentially conceding a loss.

[GrandeDavid]

I think the Spurs will blow Boston out.

[Mel_13]

This is the mentality of many of you people: Well I'd like to win, but only on terms that more than like won't permit the Spurs to beat a team the caliber of the Celtics. Meaning, limit every player's key minutes, even if only playing them but a handful more than their averages would significant upgrade the chances of winning this game. That's great logic.

Interesting that you can tell so much about my mentality from two sentences. I guess you took advanced classes in psychology as well as math.

You're entitled to your opinion, but no matter how closely you hold that opinion it does not become fact. I find your mentality interesting. The mentality of a person convinced that his insight into how to maximize the team's performance is superior to that of the proven expert who holds the job.

[benefactor]

You act like the big three would need a month to recover if they played extended minutes in one game. So either you're essentially willing to concede the game or you think playing them low minutes will get it done against a team of this caliber?

I have never said we should play the starters low minutes. Regular minutes are fine with me. There are two things that will get the win versus the Celtics and playing the starters long minutes is not one of them. Those things are good team defense and rebounding. If we do those things well and play everyone regular minutes we have a good chance at winning.


It's not about not playing hard (that's never been a problem in the Duncan era), it's about actually treating this game as more than just one of 82: because it is. Whether the Spurs or you want to admit it or not, it is. This is bigger than playing the Kings, even if it only counts for one game in the standings. When the Spurs were at their peak and were the team to beat, games like this, regular season / early winter didn't mean much. But this isn't 03-07 and the Spurs are no longer the hunted; they're the hunter. I don't care what they've accomplished in the path, this particular version of the team hasn't had a truly significant win yet. This would be one.

It's not about sending messages, either. It's about confidence and psyche and this team leaving the arena tonight knowing that they can beat an elite team. I'm so sick of the defeatist/deferential attitude that's gone on the past two years with this team. They speak of wanting to win another championship, then they roll over virtually every time they face an elite team.

This is just a bunch of BS. There is nothing that suggest that this team needs this win for their confidence or that a loss would hurt their confidence in the long run. Regular season wins have NEVER dictated anything confidence-wise. Just look at the 2008 playoffs. We had gotten crushed by Phoenix at the beginning of April only to dismiss them in 5 games. And what about the second round? Up to game 3 we had gotten crushed three straight times by New Orleans only to finish them off in 7 games. Your confidence theory is as stupid as your post count theory.


Again, why can't they play that many minutes one time? Would they die? Old men like Bryant, Nowitzki and Pierce do it regularly and yet still have enough gas left in the tank to make significant contributions in the playoffs. I'm not suggesting that the Spurs do that, but certain games you play to win moreso than you do just to see how much you can get away with. This is one of those games.

Two reasons.

The Spurs are not going to win big games by playing the Big 3 big minutes. They are going to win by playing disciplined defense and being active on the boards. This takes a team effort from everyone. Again, if we play them their regular minutes and do these things they have a good shot at winning.

Big minutes for Parker, Duncan and Manu are simply not the same as the other players you listed. All three of them are at much greater risk of injury. Parker is coming off a full summer of basketball and has already injured his ankle early in the year. Risk for re-injury goes way up as the minutes increase. Furthermore, because of the way Parker plays, a fatigued Parker late in the game is about half as effective as a Parker that has played 30-35 minutes. Manu not playing big minutes should be obvious. We all know that Manu is going to play like Manu, so if you put that together with long minutes there is a very high risk of him re-aggravating the muscle strain he just got over. Duncan's knee does not need any more minutes than what is necessary.

[TD 21]

Interesting that you can tell so much about my mentality from two sentences. I guess you took advanced classes in psychology as well as math.

You're entitled to your opinion, but no matter how closely you hold that opinion it does not become fact. I find your mentality interesting. The mentality of a person convinced that his insight into how to maximize the team's performance is superior to that of the proven expert who holds the job.


I've seen it a lot on this board, so I'm used to it.

Proven expert? Pop is just a coach. Jackson has an entirely different mentality/style than Pop and he's won 6 more championships than Pop, so by your logic what does that make him?

The reality is you have to adapt. This isn't 03-07 anymore, the Spurs aren't the team to beat and they can no longer get away with limiting the minutes of their key players and expecting to beat elite or even near elite teams. So which one is it, play the key players extended minutes for one game (after 3 days off, no less), or essentially concede? Those are the options.

[TD 21]

I have never said we should play the starters low minutes. Regular minutes are fine with me. There are two things that will get the win versus the Celtics and playing the starters long minutes is not one of them. Those things are good team defense and rebounding. If we do those things well and play everyone regular minutes we have a good chance at winning.

This is just a bunch of BS. There is nothing that suggest that this team needs this win for their confidence or that a loss would hurt their confidence in the long run. Regular season wins have NEVER dictated anything confidence-wise. Just look at the 2008 playoffs. We had gotten crushed by Phoenix at the beginning of April only to dismiss them in 5 games. And what about the second round? Up to game 3 we had gotten crushed three straight times by New Orleans only to finish them off in 7 games. Your confidence theory is as stupid as your post count theory.

Two reasons.

The Spurs are not going to win big games by playing the Big 3 big minutes. They are going to win by playing disciplined defense and being active on the boards. This takes a team effort from everyone. Again, if we play them their regular minutes and do these things they have a good shot at winning.

Big minutes for Parker, Duncan and Manu are simply not the same as the other players you listed. All three of them are at much greater risk of injury. Parker is coming off a full summer of basketball and has already injured his ankle early in the year. Risk for re-injury goes way up as the minutes increase. Furthermore, because of the way Parker plays, a fatigued Parker late in the game is about half as effective as a Parker that has played 30-35 minutes. Manu not playing big minutes should be obvious. We all know that Manu is going to play like Manu, so if you put that together with long minutes there is a very high risk of him re-aggravating the muscle strain he just got over. Duncan's knee does not need any more minutes than what is necessary.

This is not an opinion, it's fact: The regular minutes the Spurs key players play are low in comparison to every other team's key players in the NBA. So, yes, you are in effect saying "play the key players low minutes".

I never said there was anything to suggest, I'm simply saying that I think it's important. And if you look back in NBA history (I believe there was a recent thread on this) you'll find that it is. In essence, if you can't beat elite teams in the regular season, how will you expect to in a playoff series? A losing record in the regular season against elite teams is telling. The difference then was that Spurs team had been together for a long time and had a history of winning big games. What's this group won together? Even the core, they haven't won a big game in (by their and elite team standards) a long time. Post count theory?

This is nothing more than cliche nonsense. The Spurs are an excellent rebounding team and are starting to re-establish themselves as something resembling an excellent defensive team. If Pierce or Allen plays over 40 minutes and Rondo plays close to 40 minutes and none of the Spurs key players exceed 36-37 minutes, they will likely lose this game. So let me get this straight: don't, under any circumstances, play the big three extended minutes once in the regular season, then once the playoffs roll around expect them to be able to handle them every game despite not being used to playing that much? Against the Celtics and against the Lakers, as well as a few other random games, their minutes should be extended. And here's the other thing, if this team loses more than they win against good teams and ends up with a 4th or 5th seed, they're not winning a championship. I don't care how rested or healthy they are.

[Robinson#1]

Should be a great game with the TD and KG match up like always

[benefactor]

I never said there was anything to suggest, I'm simply saying that I think it's important. And if you look back in NBA history (I believe there was a recent thread on this) you'll find that it is. In essence, if you can't beat elite teams in the regular season, how will you expect to in a playoff series? A losing record in the regular season against elite teams is telling. The difference then was that Spurs team had been together for a long time and had a history of winning big games. What's this group won together? Even the core, they haven't won a big game in (by their and elite team standards) a long time. Post count theory?

I look back in history and see a Spurs team that beat New Orleans in a series after losing three straight games to them, beat Phoenix in a series right after getting crushed by them late in the season and beat Cleveland in the finals after losing BOTH regular season meeting to them. Your stance is baseless and holds about as much water colander.

So now the Big 3 will somehow lose their confidence because they have not won a big game in a while? Please be serious.


This is nothing more than cliche nonsense. The Spurs are an excellent rebounding team and are starting to re-establish themselves as something resembling an excellent defensive team. If Pierce or Allen plays over 40 minutes and Rondo plays close to 40 minutes and none of the Spurs key players exceed 36-37 minutes, they will likely lose this game. So let me get this straight: don't, under any circumstances, play the big three extended minutes once in the regular season, then once the playoffs roll around expect them to be able to handle them every game despite not being used to playing that much? Against the Celtics and against the Lakers, as well as a few other random games, their minutes should be extended. And here's the other thing, if this team loses more than they win against good teams and ends up with a 4th or 5th seed, they're not winning a championship. I don't care how rested or healthy they are.
I'm really getting sick and fucking tired of your generalizations. I never said "don't play the big three extended minutes ever"...I said it was not necessary for this game. Whether or not we play them long minutes will not matter if we play well defensively and win the rebounding battle. It just won't.

As far as seeding goes...you might as well slit your wrists now. We are probably looking at a third seed at the highest and I think that is probably unlikely. This team has a lot of adversity ahead and a lot of things have to go right for them to win it all again. This biggest of these is health...which is achieved by being smart with the older/oft injured players minutes.

[benefactor]

So yeah...we should have taken Blair's minutes away and given them to one of the starters.

[VBM]

So yeah...we should have taken Blair's minutes away and given them to one of the starters.

Maybe should have taken Mason's away instead...

[benefactor]

Maybe should have taken Mason's away instead...
Agreed. :tu

[TD 21]

I look back in history and see a Spurs team that beat New Orleans in a series after losing three straight games to them, beat Phoenix in a series right after getting crushed by them late in the season and beat Cleveland in the finals after losing BOTH regular season meeting to them. Your stance is baseless and holds about as much water colander.

So now the Big 3 will somehow lose their confidence because they have not won a big game in a while? Please be serious.

I'm really getting sick and fucking tired of your generalizations. I never said "don't play the big three extended minutes ever"...I said it was not necessary for this game. Whether or not we play them long minutes will not matter if we play well defensively and win the rebounding battle. It just won't.

As far as seeding goes...you might as well slit your wrists now. We are probably looking at a third seed at the highest and I think that is probably unlikely. This team has a lot of adversity ahead and a lot of things have to go right for them to win it all again. This biggest of these is health...which is achieved by being smart with the older/oft injured players minutes.

Different team, different time. I don't give a flying fuck about 03-08 anymore. Clearly, this has been a team in transition since then and if you can't see that, then you're both blind and delusional. Look back at the history of the league: if you can't beat good teams in the regular season, then you're not winning a championship. I don't give a fuck if they win a round or two.

Who knows? I see the interviews and I'm not sure these guys genuinely believe in this team anymore. And why should they? Almost every time they've played a good team on national TV the past few years they've not only lost, but embarrassed themselves. They'll never say it, but deep down they know it's going to probably take a near miracle for this team to win another championship.

In effect, you did. Because if not in this game, then when? Against the fucking Clippers? Great analysis, genius: the Spurs were a +23 on the boards, had 10 more FGA, held the Celtics to 46% shooting and 96 points (both well below their averages) and STILL lost. Clearly, it didn't come down to rebounding and defending; it came down to playing the proper lineups. Not surprisingly that didn't happen and predictably the Spurs lost. Guys were yo-yo'd in and out like it was a fucking preseason or All-Star game. No rhythm or chemistry was being allowed to get established. THAT is why this game was lost. Because despite the turnovers, shitty officiating and putrid shooting, they still had a chance at the end.

I agree about the seeding, but that just tied into my larger point. You can have everyone fresh and healthy for the playoffs all you want. If this team goes in as a 4th seed they aren't even coming close to winning a championship, which is supposed to be the goal, something you and many others on this board have apparently forgotten.

[mexicanjunior]

I look back in history and see a Spurs team that beat New Orleans in a series after losing three straight games to them.

If you are talking about the 2008 playoff series against NO, each team won at home up until game 7...Spurs never lost 3 straight at any point.

[Blackjack]

This really is quite amusing...

Maybe it's just a case of bloated expectations and a sense of entitlement for people who didn't experience life before Duncan, but what the hell were you really expecting?

Holt departing from his frugal ways and assembling one of the most talented teams the Spurs have ever had wasn't a guarantee of a Title or Finals appearance; even if everything broke their way and they managed to stay healthy and playing their best ball at the right time, there'd still be a chance they'd come of short..

You're not going to see what this team's ceiling is until the majority of the regular-season has been played, and it'd be foolish to make wholesale judgments before the team's played even a third of the season; building chemistry, trust and a rotation takes time.

The Spurs aren't likely to do better than the third seed, and that's fine.

Ideal? No.

Fine? It has to be.

See, extending the minutes of a guy who has degenerative condition with his knee leads to what happened last year. Throwing caution to the wind with Manu and his minutes leads to what happened the last two years. And without those two at their best at the end of the year, this year's going to end a lot like the last two years.

The Celtics loss was nothing to fret over. The Spurs still match up well with them. They're a disjointed team trying to find their way individually and collectively, yet, they still managed to give themselves a shot to win after some piss-poor execution and focus; Boston's a Championship-caliber team that's been together for a while now. They're leaps and bounds ahead of the Spurs in terms of continuity and cohesion.

So, on a night like tonight, when two teams that match-up as well as they do come together, it's not surprising to see a Spurs team lose the way they did; you couldn't have honestly watched that game and thought that the Celtics were demonstrably better and that the Spurs didn't have plenty to do with their own demise. They're a team in the early stages of a building process that, given health, will be right up there with Boston at the end of the season. They're not there yet; there's no guarantee they ever will be either.

The Spurs are who I thought they were; their season's ending has still yet to be determined..

[Capt Bringdown]

This really is quite amusing...

Maybe it's just a case of bloated expectations and a sense of entitlement for people who didn't experience life before Duncan, but what the hell were you really expecting?


Or it could be a case of fans feeling passionate about their team, and expressing themselves in as many ways as there are people.
Get over yourself, Mr Know-it-all.

[benefactor]

Different team, different time. I don't give a flying fuck about 03-08 anymore. Clearly, this has been a team in transition since then and if you can't see that, then you're both blind and delusional. Look back at the history of the league: if you can't beat good teams in the regular season, then you're not winning a championship. I don't give a fuck if they win a round or two.

:sleep I gave you history already. I guess only certain history matters.


In effect, you did. Because if not in this game, then when? Against the fucking Clippers? Great analysis, genius: the Spurs were a +23 on the boards, had 10 more FGA, held the Celtics to 46% shooting and 96 points (both well below their averages) and STILL lost. Clearly, it didn't come down to rebounding and defending; it came down to playing the proper lineups. Not surprisingly that didn't happen and predictably the Spurs lost. Guys were yo-yo'd in and out like it was a fucking preseason or All-Star game. No rhythm or chemistry was being allowed to get established. THAT is why this game was lost. Because despite the turnovers, shitty officiating and putrid shooting, they still had a chance at the end.

Aww...look at that. You bolded it just so you would look even more stupid.

If you want to argue that Manu should have been in there late or that Duncan didn't get back in the game fast enough in the 4th, I would allow you that. Otherwise, lineups had nothing to do with us losing. In fact, the second team brought us back in the game in both early and late in the game.

We played one good quarter of defense...and that was the 4th quarter. Boston was on a 100 pt pace through the end of the third. Boston also shoots 49% for the season...so you are(once again) stretching by saying that 46% is well below their average. 14 of our 18 turnovers were in the first three quarters. We missed ten free throws and went 2-16 from distance. These are the reasons why we lost.


I agree about the seeding, but that just tied into my larger point. You can have everyone fresh and healthy for the playoffs all you want. If this team goes in as a 4th seed they aren't even coming close to winning a championship, which is supposed to be the goal, something you and many others on this board have apparently forgotten.
Well..sorry. We're not gonna be a top 3 seed. The door is that way...see ya.

[carib]

It’s important for teams that are trying to rebuild or that want to be in the mix at the end of the regular season to take advantage of early season games against top teams and push your players and try new match ups and rotations. The season is long play hard against top teams and rest and give your key players less minutes against the lower seed teams.


Games against the Lakers
01/12/2010
02/08/2010
04/14/2010

Boston again on
03/28/2010

Play these games like the playoffs there is no way we not win against these two teams in the regular season and think we can beat them in the playoffs, the Spurs are not in the position to just turn it on at any time any more.

Stop saying its early its early for them also.

[TJastal]

This game was a breakout game for Blair and very important to get this guys' confidence going. If I had to pick either winning but Blair never seeing a minute of action or losing like we did and Blair busting out, I'd pick the latter every time. The game itself is only 1 of 82 and its very early, so who cares having Blair playing confidently will be infinitely more important to this teams' success than "beating a contender" in a game everyone will have forgotten about 2 months from now.

[UnWantedTheory]

Different team, different time. I don't give a flying fuck about 03-08 anymore. Clearly, this has been a team in transition since then and if you can't see that, then you're both blind and delusional. Look back at the history of the league: if you can't beat good teams in the regular season, then you're not winning a championship. I don't give a fuck if they win a round or two.

Who knows? I see the interviews and I'm not sure these guys genuinely believe in this team anymore. And why should they? Almost every time they've played a good team on national TV the past few years they've not only lost, but embarrassed themselves. They'll never say it, but deep down they know it's going to probably take a near miracle for this team to win another championship.

In effect, you did. Because if not in this game, then when? Against the fucking Clippers? Great analysis, genius: the Spurs were a +23 on the boards, had 10 more FGA, held the Celtics to 46% shooting and 96 points (both well below their averages) and STILL lost. Clearly, it didn't come down to rebounding and defending; it came down to playing the proper lineups. Not surprisingly that didn't happen and predictably the Spurs lost. Guys were yo-yo'd in and out like it was a fucking preseason or All-Star game. No rhythm or chemistry was being allowed to get established. THAT is why this game was lost. Because despite the turnovers, shitty officiating and putrid shooting, they still had a chance at the end.

I agree about the seeding, but that just tied into my larger point. You can have everyone fresh and healthy for the playoffs all you want. If this team goes in as a 4th seed they aren't even coming close to winning a championship, which is supposed to be the goal, something you and many others on this board have apparently forgotten.

I was told to speak to you so I can join your conspiracy group. I dont really care about what its about, I just honestly want to conspire. I mistook what you said earlier...I thought Benefactor was the leader of said conspiracy group. But he said it was you. I dont really care who is who, because thats probably another conspiracy,...I just want to be in a cool group so I can brainwash people and not be alone. :( Teach me your ways.

[VBM]

This game was a breakout game for Blair and very important to get this guys' confidence going. If I had to pick either winning but Blair never seeing a minute of action or losing like we did and Blair busting out, I'd pick the latter every time. The game itself is only 1 of 82 and its very early, so who cares having Blair playing confidently will be infinitely more important to this teams' success than "beating a contender" in a game everyone will have forgotten about 2 months from now.

I worry more about RJ's confidence...Blair is too young to have any self-doubt...

[Höfner]

Blair froze Dyess' ass to the bench.

If only he hadn't tipped that rebound in.

[NFGIII]

Was this a test? And a true one? Of course on both accounts but should it have that much impact on how we view the Spurs? I think not. Yes, they lost to an elite team but in doing so their FTs were abysmal and their TOs were way too high. They have total control over the first and Boston did have some input on the second but all in all I thought I saw some good things coming out of this game. Their ability to fight through adversity and gut it out to be in a position to win after playing the 1st Q so badly and the beginning of the 3rd Q in similar fashion shows what this team can do. Given time they will jell and start to win this type of game.

The question that is still bothering me is why RJ can't seem to get involved. I still hope it is about getting familar with the system, getting the proper spacing so he can be effective or getting good chemistry with TP and TD. As of now I'm disappointed with what he is doing when teamed with TP and TD. When samll ball comes into play the spacing seems to improve dramatically and he really gets it going.

Still a work in progress and I'm going to let it be like that until mid Jan or so. If no or little improvement has been shown then :depressed but I think this ship is about to get turned around.

:flag:

[Blackjack]

Or it could be a case of fans feeling passionate about their team, and expressing themselves in as many ways as there are people.
Get over yourself, Mr Know-it-all.

I've got no problem with fans having passion and getting pissed off or bent out of shape after a bad outing or tough loss; none what-so-ever..

I do, however, find it pretty amusing (laughable, really) when just about anyone who's been around long enough to have witnessed the '03 and '04 seasons (where there was similar roster turnover) starts jumping off cliffs or making wholesale judgments 16 games into the season. Hell, even if you're new to the Spurs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know just how difficult is to incorporate this many new players.

So I, Mr. Know-it-all, will not be getting over myself any time soon. I'm going to continue to view this team as having two of their top three players as being older with tenuous health issues, and I'm not going to be surprised that the integration of key, big-time, contributors is only going to be made harder, and take longer, because the lack of stability they have coming in; Tim, Tony and Manu aren't at the top of their game and/or in rhythm and on the same page. They're not adding ingredients to a ready-made mix, they're trying to find out if what they already had in the cupboard hasn't expired and how to use the ingredients they just picked up go with what they've got.

Passion and ignorance are too often confused; there's nothing wrong with passion, so long as you're not the 'ass' in it..

[TD 21]

This really is quite amusing...

Maybe it's just a case of bloated expectations and a sense of entitlement for people who didn't experience life before Duncan, but what the hell were you really expecting?

Holt departing from his frugal ways and assembling one of the most talented teams the Spurs have ever had wasn't a guarantee of a Title or Finals appearance; even if everything broke their way and they managed to stay healthy and playing their best ball at the right time, there'd still be a chance they'd come of short..

You're not going to see what this team's ceiling is until the majority of the regular-season has been played, and it'd be foolish to make wholesale judgments before the team's played even a third of the season; building chemistry, trust and a rotation takes time.

The Spurs aren't likely to do better than the third seed, and that's fine.

Ideal? No.

Fine? It has to be.

See, extending the minutes of a guy who has degenerative condition with his knee leads to what happened last year. Throwing caution to the wind with Manu and his minutes leads to what happened the last two years. And without those two at their best at the end of the year, this year's going to end a lot like the last two years.

The Celtics loss was nothing to fret over. The Spurs still match up well with them. They're a disjointed team trying to find their way individually and collectively, yet, they still managed to give themselves a shot to win after some piss-poor execution and focus; Boston's a Championship-caliber team that's been together for a while now. They're leaps and bounds ahead of the Spurs in terms of continuity and cohesion.

So, on a night like tonight, when two teams that match-up as well as they do come together, it's not surprising to see a Spurs team lose the way they did; you couldn't have honestly watched that game and thought that the Celtics were demonstrably better and that the Spurs didn't have plenty to do with their own demise. They're a team in the early stages of a building process that, given health, will be right up there with Boston at the end of the season. They're not there yet; there's no guarantee they ever will be either.

The Spurs are who I thought they were; their season's ending has still yet to be determined..

No, it's a case of watching what should be a very good team underachieving and the coach simply not taking a measuring stick game against one of the two best teams in the league seriously. In addition to that, the team also didn't look prepared. As others have said, take off the rose colored glasses and get over yourself. I don't care about how things worked or came together in the past. That was then, this is now. Duncan was an all-time great player having an all-time great season back in '03 and he logged 40.6 mpg.


:sleep I gave you history already. I guess only certain history matters.

Aww...look at that. You bolded it just so you would look even more stupid.

If you want to argue that Manu should have been in there late or that Duncan didn't get back in the game fast enough in the 4th, I would allow you that. Otherwise, lineups had nothing to do with us losing. In fact, the second team brought us back in the game in both early and late in the game.

We played one good quarter of defense...and that was the 4th quarter. Boston was on a 100 pt pace through the end of the third. Boston also shoots 49% for the season...so you are(once again) stretching by saying that 46% is well below their average. 14 of our 18 turnovers were in the first three quarters. We missed ten free throws and went 2-16 from distance. These are the reasons why we lost.

Well..sorry. We're not gonna be a top 3 seed. The door is that way...see ya.

History with regards to what?

No, just to show that I was right and you were wrong. I didn't want that part getting lost in the midst of a long post.

You would allow me that? Get over yourself you fucking loser. The reality is Pop treated this like it was a preseason or an All-Star game against one of the two best teams in the league. Because of this, more than anything else, the Spurs lost. When I say lineups, I just mean in general the key/best players should have played more, not necessarily starters over bench.

Conveniently break it into segments to attempt to suit your argument. The reality is they held a team that averages 99 points to 90 and a team that shoots 49 to 46 percent (that is fairly substantial) and still lost. So I don't want to hear that it came down to defense and rebounding (+23), because it didn't. Had this game been treated with the proper amount of respect as it deserved, the Spurs more than likely win, as they should have when you consider all the factors in their favor.

Why, because you said so? You've got a superiority complex and you need to grow up. Only a childish goof would attempt to boss people around on a message board because he's been on it longer.

[TD 21]

I was told to speak to you so I can join your conspiracy group. I dont really care about what its about, I just honestly want to conspire. I mistook what you said earlier...I thought Benefactor was the leader of said conspiracy group. But he said it was you. I dont really care who is who, because thats probably another conspiracy,...I just want to be in a cool group so I can brainwash people and not be alone. :( Teach me your ways.

What conspiracy group? I don't even know whether this is serious or sarcastic, let alone what you're talking about.

[benefactor]

You would allow me that? Get over yourself you fucking loser. The reality is Pop treated this like it was a preseason or an All-Star game against one of the two best teams in the league. Because of this, more than anything else, the Spurs lost. When I say lineups, I just mean in general the key/best players should have played more, not necessarily starters over bench.

Conveniently break it into segments to attempt to suit your argument. The reality is they held a team that averages 99 points to 90 and a team that shoots 49 to 46 percent (that is fairly substantial) and still lost. So I don't want to hear that it came down to defense and rebounding (+23), because it didn't. Had this game been treated with the proper amount of respect as it deserved, the Spurs more than likely win, as they should have when you consider all the factors in their favor.

And you conveniently keep ignoring the obvious reasons why we lost while reaching to try to prove something you cannot prove. 46 to 49 percent is fairly substantial? You are seriously going to run with that? Ok...I'm game. So let's look at the shots the Celtics took. They made 36 of their 78 field goals for 46 percent. If they made 38.5 of those they would be at 49 percent. So you are going to tell me...with a straight face...that holding them to 2.5 less makes over a full 48 minutes is a great defensive effort?

There is no doing anything to suit my argument. My argument is based on facts...facts that say we shot 41% from the stripe(season average = 74%), shot 13% from distance(season average = 36%), gave up 74 points through three quarters and slapped 18 turnovers on it all as icing on the cake. The only thing that kept us from getting blown out was the rebounding. You say I am citing things just to suit my argument...when your own stat arguments are completely and totally laughable.

Make a couple of free throws...sink a couple of threes...take better care of the ball...play just one more quarters worth of defense...win. It's as simple as that.

[TD 21]

And you conveniently keep ignoring the obvious reasons why we lost while reaching to try to prove something you cannot prove. 46 to 49 percent is fairly substantial? You are seriously going to run with that? Ok...I'm game. So let's look at the shots the Celtics took. They made 36 of their 78 field goals for 46 percent. If they made 38.5 of those they would be at 49 percent. So you are going to tell me...with a straight face...that holding them to 2.5 less makes over a full 48 minutes is a great defensive effort?

There is no doing anything to suit my argument. My argument is based on facts...facts that say we shot 41% from the stripe(season average = 74%), shot 13% from distance(season average = 36%), gave up 74 points through three quarters and slapped 18 turnovers on it all as icing on the cake. The only thing that kept us from getting blown out was the rebounding. You say I am citing things just to suit my argument...when your own stat arguments are completely and totally laughable.

Make a couple of free throws...sink a couple of threes...take better care of the ball...play just one more quarters worth of defense...win. It's as simple as that.

Thank you for answering why I "bolded" a part of my post two posts ago. I DID answer that, you just conveniently won't acknowledge it or glossed over it. What I said was, despite the shitty officiating, putrid shooting and 18 turnovers, the Spurs were still in it at the end. What cost them, more than anything, was playing foolish lineup combination's much of the night. The Celtics played a tighter, more predictable rotation and won the game. End of story. I never said great or even good, what I said was, the defense didn't cost the Spurs this game.

No, your argument was based on old-school basketball speak that you've heard from the Spurs, mainly Pop, many a time and have resorted to regurgitating it yourself. You're missing the point, which is that despite all of that, this was a winnable game in the final few possessions. My point is that if logical lineups were played, the Spurs probably win this game. My argument is based on logic: if you use a more predictable, tighter rotation and play your best players appropriate minutes against a team of this caliber, you give yourself as good a chance to win as you possibly can. Pop didn't do that and the Spurs lost.

[Mel_13]

My argument is based on logic

:lol

Your argument is based on your assumption that you could deploy the assets available on the Spurs more effectively than Pop. That's your schtick and we'll have to live with you posting your "logic". You'll have to live with others finding you laughable and ridiculous.

[TD 21]

My argument is based on logic: if you use a more predictable, tighter rotation and play your best players appropriate minutes against a team of this caliber, you give yourself as good a chance to win as you possibly can.

Are you honestly going to tell me that this doesn't make sense? I know it wasn't said by someone with a high post count whom you've been buddy-buddy with for x amount of time, but use your head. I wouldn't pretend that I'm alone in my thinking, not when I see others in this thread alone agreeing with me and various others scattered throughout myriad threads.

[Mel_13]

I know it wasn't said by someone with a high post count

:lol

Self-quote and weak post count smack.

Like I said, you're good for a laugh.

[benefactor]

Thank you for answering why I "bolded" a part of my post two posts ago. I DID answer that, you just conveniently won't acknowledge it or glossed over it. What I said was, despite the shitty officiating, putrid shooting and 18 turnovers, the Spurs were still in it at the end. What cost them, more than anything, was playing foolish lineup combination's much of the night. The Celtics played a tighter, more predictable rotation and won the game. End of story. I never said great or even good, what I said was, the defense didn't cost the Spurs this game.

No, your argument was based on old-school basketball speak that you've heard from the Spurs, mainly Pop, many a time and have resorted to regurgitating it yourself. You're missing the point, which is that despite all of that, this was a winnable game in the final few possessions. My point is that if logical lineups were played, the Spurs probably win this game. My argument is based on logic: if you use a more predictable, tighter rotation and play your best players appropriate minutes against a team of this caliber, you give yourself as good a chance to win as you possibly can. Pop didn't do that and the Spurs lost.
Here's your breakdown of the Spurs best players...Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and Jefferson...7 of the 10 missed free throws and 13 of the 18 turnovers. Mason, Bonner and Ginobili are regular rotation players and depended on to shoot well from distance. They went 2-10. These things combined with three quarters of bad defense and we lose. Like I said before...if you want to argue that playing Ginobili late instead of Mason or not bringing Duncan soon enough might have cost us the game that that is fine. I could agree with you there. But overall the mistakes and overall lack of disciplined play is what did us in.

[TD 21]

:lol

Self-quote and weak post count smack.

Like I said, you're good for a laugh.

I self-quoted because you left out the part where I explained why my argument was logical, showing you bias in the process. It's fine to disagree with me, but be fair.

Says the guy who seemingly doesn't have an opinion and is just here, why? To backup some other guy he's more than likely been buddy-buddy with in other threads.

[benefactor]

Are you honestly going to tell me that this doesn't make sense? I know it wasn't said by someone with a high post count whom you've been buddy-buddy with for x amount of time, but use your head. I wouldn't pretend that I'm alone in my thinking, not when I see others in this thread alone agreeing with me and various others scattered throughout myriad threads.
It's a conspiracy!

[Mel_13]

I self-quoted because you left out the part where I explained why my argument was logical, showing you bias in the process. It's fine to disagree with me, but be fair.

Says the guy who seemingly doesn't have an opinion and is just here, why? To backup some other guy he's more than likely been buddy-buddy with in other threads.

:lol

More good stuff. I especially like the part about the bias. Yes, anyone that disagrees with you is part of some grand conspiracy that refuses to acknowledge your brilliance. There's really no "logical" explanation for any opposing view.

[TD 21]

Here's your breakdown of the Spurs best players...Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and Jefferson...7 of the 10 missed free throws and 13 of the 18 turnovers. Mason, Bonner and Ginobili are regular rotation players and depended on to shoot well from distance. They went 2-10. These things combined with three quarters of bad defense and we lose. Like I said before...if you want to argue that playing Ginobili late instead of Mason or not bringing Duncan soon enough might have cost us the game that that is fine. I could agree with you there. But overall the mistakes and overall lack of disciplined play is what did us in.

Here's your breakdown of idiotic lineup decisions:

- Blair and Bonner going against Garnett and Wallace. Two undersized, sub-par post defenders on two long, rangy players with excellent turnaround jumpers.
- Duncan sitting for 10+ straight minutes in the 2nd half, including first 8 of 4th quarter
- Ginobili playing but seconds in the 4th
- (correct me if I'm wrong), but no sequences where Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, McDyess and Duncan played together ... you know, the 5 best players on the team
- Not having the quicker and longer Hill chase Allen through the myriad screens the Celtics run him off of (mainly staggers on the baseline). Instead, letting the physical, yet slower, Bogans get torched
- 50 combined minutes for Duncan and Ginobili
- Inexplicably playing a cold and struggling Mason throughout the 4th
- Because of how well Blair was playing, it would have been tough, but not playing Ratliff, a lengthy rim protector, against a team with a long front court

I partially agree with you and am not brushing off the mistakes and sloppiness, but don't tell me that Pop's treating this game as if it were the preseason or an All-Star game didn't play a significant part in the loss. He allowed for no rhythm or chemistry to be established by yo-yoing guys in and out and playing a ridiculous amount of combination's. Also, how un-prepared did the team, especially the starters, look offensively in the 1st? Defensively, mainly the bench, at the end of the 3rd? This was not Pop's finest hour.

[TD 21]

:lol

More good stuff. I especially like the part about the bias. Yes, anyone that disagrees with you is part of some grand conspiracy that refuses to acknowledge your brilliance. There's really no "logical" explanation for any opposing view.

Despite you desperately attempting to convince many of the opposite in virtually every single post I've seen of yours, you're incredibly stupid. I meant bias in regards to you not posting my reasoning for why I believe that my statement that you quoted was logical. Like I said, if you don't agree with it, fine, then state your reasoning, but this phony pretend-like-I-find-something-funny-and-I'm-more-intellectual act is played out.

[benefactor]

And I partially agreed with you. Now will you please stop with the ridiculous post count/company line stuff. That makes you look really, really stupid and makes people not take you very seriously.

[Mel_13]

Despite you desperately attempting to convince many of the opposite in virtually every single post I've seen of yours, you're incredibly stupid. I meant bias in regards to you not posting my reasoning for why I believe that my statement that you quoted was logical.

And now, inevitably and predictably, you stoop to personal insults. Still laughable and now a little bit sad.

[TD 21]

And I partially agreed with you. Now will you please stop with the ridiculous post count/company line stuff. That makes you look really, really stupid and makes people not take you very seriously.

I'll stop when people like you and Mel_13 stop coming into threads I post in and conveniently siding with one another on everything and acting like everything I say is automatically wrong, because it's not the way "Pop does things", or because you've gotten in past arguments with me. Who's people, you and your SpursTalk buddies? Do you really think I care what you people think of me? Then again, you probably do.

[TD 21]

And now, inevitably and predictably, you stoop to personal insults. Still laughable and now a little bit sad.

And now, inevitably and predictably, you stoop to copping out because you know full well that I'm right and you're biased. No, for the umpteenth time, I'm not talking about my opinion, I'm talking about the fact that you didn't even quote my reasoning when I said "my argument is logical".

[Mel_13]

And now, inevitably and predictably, you stoop to copping out because you know full well that I'm right and you're biased. No, for the umpteenth time, I'm not talking about my opinion, I'm talking about the fact that you didn't even quote my reasoning when I said "my argument is logical".

:lol

It's only the conspiracy that forces anyone to disagree with you.

[benefactor]

I'll stop when people like you and Mel_13 stop coming into threads I post in and conveniently siding with one another on everything and acting like everything I say is automatically wrong, because it's not the way "Pop does things", or because you've gotten in past arguments with me. Who's people, you and your SpursTalk buddies? Do you really think I care what you people think of me? Then again, you probably do.
I wasn't siding with anyone or agreeing with anything Pop does or does not do. You made those assumptions on your own. I made my argument out of facts. Facts that happened in the game. I was not influenced by anyone else's opinion.

Spouting off that people are conspiring against you because their post count is high and they know each other is ridiculous. If you don't like it here and you think everyone is against you then that small X at the top right of your screen it just the click of a mouse away.

[TD 21]

:lol

It's only the conspiracy that forces anyone to disagree with you.

As usual, no opinion whatsoever to offer on the topic at hand. This is most likely because you have an elementary understanding of the game and so you attempt to conceal this by not talking about basketball altogether. Are you that lonely in life that you have to come to a basketball message board, not to talk basketball, but to attempt to make friends? Way to continue to evade the question and cop-out.

[TD 21]

I wasn't siding with anyone or agreeing with anything Pop does or does not do. You made those assumptions on your own. I made my argument out of facts. Facts that happened in the game. I was not influenced by anyone else's opinion.

Spouting off that people are conspiring against you because their post count is high and they know each other is ridiculous. If you don't like it here and you think everyone is against you then that small X at the top right of your screen it just the click of a mouse away.

I did no such thing. You spouted the usual basketball coach speak (of which Pop has cited many a time) and attempted to pass it off as fact.

Conspiring? I never said that, but keep making things up, that's real mature. It's not at all ridiculous, I see it all the time on message boards, particularly this one. If you're not well known by the regulars, then most of them instantly disregard your opinion. I like it just fine, otherwise I wouldn't be here. I'm just stating what goes on on a typical message board. Stop trying to play moderator and acting like you speak for the entire board or have some type of power over me. So long as I'm within' board rules (which I am), I don't have to, nor do I intend to, go anywhere. Deal with it.

[benefactor]

:lmao

[Mel_13]

I'll stop when people like you and Mel_13 stop coming into threads I post in and conveniently siding with one another on everything and acting like everything I say is automatically wrong, because it's not the way "Pop does things", or because you've gotten in past arguments with me. Who's people, you and your SpursTalk buddies? Do you really think I care what you people think of me? Then again, you probably do.


As usual, no opinion whatsoever to offer on the topic at hand. This is most likely because you have an elementary understanding of the game and so you attempt to conceal this by not talking about basketball altogether. Are you that lonely in life that you have to come to a basketball message board, not to talk basketball, but to attempt to make friends? Way to continue to evade the question and cop-out.

Paranoid much?

I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again.

Your whole "logical" case can be distilled down to one basic proposition. Simply stated, you believe that you could more effectively deploy the assets on the Spurs roster than Pop. I reject that proposition.

[benefactor]

This guy is starting to grow on me. He is like a better spoken version of edwin_is_edwina.

[TD 21]

Paranoid much?

I said it earlier in this thread and I'll say it again.

Your whole "logical" case can be distilled down to one basic proposition. Simply stated, you believe that you could more effectively deploy the assets on the Spurs roster than Pop. I reject that proposition.

Then you misconstrued what I said. A normal person would have conveyed this way back at the start.

Simply stated, I believe that Pop, who's coaching an aspiring contender, ought to treat games against fellow contenders like every other contender that I've ever seen does. Which is by playing a tight, predictable rotation and playing his best/key players extended minutes. But, apparently he knows better than everyone else on everything and you can't challenge him, because he's "won 4 championships", so that automatically means he's right about everything. Had I coached the Spurs last night and delivered the exact same coaching performance that Pop did (minus the 4 rings), I'd be stunned if you and many of the other apologists wouldn't be calling for my head right about now.

[TD 21]

This guy is starting to grow on me. He is like a better spoken version of edwin_is_edwina.

Even though I haven't a clue who you're talking about, I've been known to have that effect.

[Mel_13]

Then you misconstrued what I said. A normal person would have conveyed this way back at the start.

I did, almost 50 posts earlier in this thread. In fact, you responded to it. Interesting that you now cannot recall the exchange.

[TD 21]

I did, almost 50 posts earlier in this thread. In fact, you responded to it. Interesting that you now cannot recall the exchange.

Even though it would appear differently at this particular time, I haven't the time to sift through the short stories that are many of the threads. If this exchange did in fact take place, when why are you carrying on in a childish manner?

[benefactor]

And saying that the Big Post Count Gang is singling you out is not childish?

[TD 21]

And saying that the Big Post Count Gang is singling you out is not childish?

Ah, going with the old "you did it, so it's okay if I do it" defense. Only you left out the part where I didn't say that, genius.

[Mel_13]

Even though it would appear differently at this particular time, I haven't the time to sift through the short stories that are many of the threads. If this exchange did in fact take place, when why are you carrying on in a childish manner?

:wtf

[benefactor]

Ah, going with the old "you did it, so it's okay if I do it" defense. Only you left out the part where I didn't say that, genius.

I know it wasn't said by someone with a high post count whom you've been buddy-buddy with for x amount of time, but use your head.
What is even funnier about this...is that you accuse people of all kinds of things yet when you are accused you "didn't say it". :downspin:

[TD 21]

What is even funnier about this...is that you accuse people of all kinds of things yet when you are accused you "didn't say it". :downspin:

I knew you'd pull out a previous quote, but just like your buddy Mel_13, you've misconstrued what I've said obviously. I didn't recall saying there was a gang (or naming it for that matter), nor do I recall saying I was "singled" out. And do you know why I don't recall saying these two things? Because I didn't say them. You, like many, need to work on your reading comprehension.

[benefactor]

I knew you'd pull out a previous quote, but just like your buddy Mel_13, you've misconstrued what I've said obviously. I didn't recall saying there was a gang (or naming it for that matter), nor do I recall saying I was "singled" out. And do you know why I don't recall saying these two things? Because I didn't say them. You, like many, need to work on your reading comprehension.
http://tsfiles.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/pot-kettle-black.jpg

[Blackjack]

No, it's a case of watching what should be a very good team underachieving and the coach simply not taking a measuring stick game against one of the two best teams in the league seriously. In addition to that, the team also didn't look prepared. As others have said, take off the rose colored glasses and get over yourself. I don't care about how things worked or came together in the past. That was then, this is now. Duncan was an all-time great player having an all-time great season back in '03 and he logged 40.6 mpg.

Ya know, I'm starting to think your obnoxious, little-man syndrome approach is commendable. I've actually thought to give some honest-to-good friendly advice about tweaking the way you come off so that you could get the type of debate you want, but I'm starting to think you've got this message board thing figured out..

See, had you not come out of the gates making all sorts of noise, your posts, no matter how good, would widely be passed over by the majority or not given much thoughtful consideration; it's the paying of dues that even I, the not-so-humble know-it-all, had to do. You seemed to have found a way to speed up the process and find a short cut, so, in that, I commend you.:tu

Now, hopefully, you can dial it down a bit to start contributing some quality basketball dialogue, and not cover up with the gloves so you can actually see what's going on in front of you; this is not meant to be condescending, I've found there to be quite a bit of substance in most your takes. We've actually had a good amount of common ground from what I've gleaned.

Now, as I remove my rose-colored glasses and attempt to get over myself, my OP wasn't addressed solely to you, it was in small part, but more so to the Chicken Little's that swarm to this board like flies on shit after a loss..

See, what you failed to understand from my OP, covering up with the gloves can do that, is that I wasn't making an excuse or trying to pretend this team doesn't have anything to worry about; at least as it pertains to Championship aspirations. My only problem is that, the consensus among most basketball junkies who follow the Spurs coming into the season, was that the team was going to get progressively better as the season wore; '03 and '04 being a template for what was to come because of the roster turnover and ensuing integration process. But as soon as the consensus view starts to play out and come to fruition, it's as if it's something completely unexpected. It really would be maddening if it wasn't so adorable. You're right, though.. Timmy isn't the same guy. But that had nothing to do with the point; it was going to be a rough start regardless of Duncan's prowess.

I'm a realist when it comes to this team; there's nothing rose-colored about my approach. This team is the deepest and most talented team the Spurs have assembled in the little over twenty years I've followed them; and there's a very good chance it won't me dick when it comes to winning a Championship.

That's just a fact.

I do know this, the Spurs can win a Championship this year if everything breaks just right; good health, a fortunate bounce or schedule, maybe a clever trade, and them playing their best ball at the right time could have them accomplishing their ultimate goal. But their margin for error is slim and because of the tenuous health of Tim and Manu, a cautious approach to their minutes and the burden they're asked to carry has to be taken; maybe it's asking too much for them to have to take a Rockets-like road to a 'Ship, but it's still just a maybe. There's no maybe about what will happen if the Spurs don't have either of them at full, or close-to-full strength, though.

If you or anyone else wants to second-guess Pop and his approach, I've got no problem with that. Pop leaves me scratching my head on numerous occasions during the season and I do it myself. But I think you've got to view his approach on a more macro scale and realize that a decision made during the early months of the year has a different end-game and reasoning than what it'd be in April, May and June; holding someone out in a fourth quarter to be cautious with an injury or wanting to see how others react in adverse situations when put on the spot, shit like that you test in the early stages.

You've to know what you've got before you make your final decisions.

Pop doesn't know exactly what he's got yet and how it's all going to fit; everybody wants to see a solid rotation and some certainty with the lineup, but there isn't a message board short-cut around the discovery and building process..

[TD 21]

Ya know, I'm starting to think your obnoxious, little-man syndrome approach is commendable. I've actually thought to give some honest-to-good friendly advice about tweaking the way you come off so that you could get the type of debate you want, but I'm starting to think you've got this message board thing figured out..

See, had you not come out of the gates making all sorts of noise, your posts, no matter how good, would widely be passed over by the majority or not given much thoughtful consideration; it's the paying of dues that even I, the not-so-humble know-it-all, had to do. You seemed to have found a way to speed up the process and find a short cut, so, in that, I commend you.:tu

Now, hopefully, you can dial it down a bit to start contributing some quality basketball dialogue, and not cover up with the gloves so you can actually see what's going on in front of you; this is not meant to be condescending, I've found there to be quite a bit of substance in most your takes. We've actually had a good amount of common ground from what I've gleaned.

Now, as I remove my rose-colored glasses and attempt to get over myself, my OP wasn't addressed solely to you, it was in small part, but more so to the Chicken Little's that swarm to this board like flies on shit after a loss..

See, what you failed to understand from my OP, covering up with the gloves can do that, is that I wasn't making an excuse or trying to pretend this team doesn't have anything to worry about; at least as it pertains to Championship aspirations. My only problem is that, the consensus among most basketball junkies who follow the Spurs coming into the season, was that the team was going to get progressively better as the season wore; '03 and '04 being a template for what was to come because of the roster turnover and ensuing integration process. But as soon as the consensus view starts to play out and come to fruition, it's as if it's something completely unexpected. It really would be maddening if it wasn't so adorable. You're right, though.. Timmy isn't the same guy. But that had nothing to do with the point; it was going to be a rough start regardless of Duncan's prowess.

I'm a realist when it comes to this team; there's nothing rose-colored about my approach. This team is the deepest and most talented team the Spurs have assembled in the little over twenty years I've followed them; and there's a very good chance it won't me dick when it comes to winning a Championship.

That's just a fact.

I do know this, the Spurs can win a Championship this year if everything breaks just right; good health, a fortunate bounce or schedule, maybe a clever trade, and them playing their best ball at the right time could have them accomplishing their ultimate goal. But their margin for error is slim and because of the tenuous health of Tim and Manu, a cautious approach to their minutes and the burden they're asked to carry has to be taken; maybe it's asking too much for them to have to take a Rockets-like road to a 'Ship, but it's still just a maybe. There's no maybe about what will happen if the Spurs don't have either of them at full, or close-to-full strength, though.

If you or anyone else wants to second-guess Pop and his approach, I've got no problem with that. Pop leaves me scratching my head on numerous occasions during the season and I do it myself. But I think you've got to view his approach on a more macro scale and realize that a decision made during the early months of the year has a different end-game and reasoning than what it'd be in April, May and June; holding someone out in a fourth quarter to be cautious with an injury or wanting to see how others react in adverse situations when put on the spot, shit like that you test in the early stages.

You've to know what you've got before you make your final decisions.

Pop doesn't know exactly what he's got yet and how it's all going to fit; everybody wants to see a solid rotation and some certainty with the lineup, but there isn't a message board short-cut around the discovery and building process..

Obnoxious, little-man syndrome? Except for the fact that I'm neither.

Well, I am very perceptive and resourceful.

Dial what down, stating my opinion, which happens to not jive with the vast majority of the apologists around here? We have had quite a bit of common ground from what I've been able to glean also; so what's the issue?

Covering up with the gloves? Progressively better was to be expected with this much talent and this many new faces; hovering around .500 over a month in and treating a game against one of the two best teams in the league as if it's a preseason game wasn't. Make any excuse or draw any parallel you like, the reality is if you're a true title contender, more often than not it's obvious by now. The Celtics took no time establishing themselves as a contender upon acquiring Garnett and Allen, nor did the Lakers with Gasol. It had everything to do with the end result in '03. Duncan was so great that he singlehandedly was able to makeup for the fact that that was a very flawed roster. Duncan is still great, he's just not quite as great (mostly due to mobility/durability, not an erosion of skills), so this time around either the team collectively starts playing to their potential or they're screwed. It's not going to be a case of having the best player in the world in his prime dragging them along.

It should mean something though, that's the thing. This team should at minimum look like a top 5 team at this point and let's get real here, they're not even close. Talent, experience and intelligence win in this league; the Spurs happen to have all three in abundance.

It shouldn't be slim. Honestly, who has, on paper, a better roster top to bottom than the Spurs? Most would probably take the Lakers top half because of their poor man's version of the twin towers. You could argue the Celtics, but after that I see no argument to be made. They're just flat out underachieving and the apologists have taken to making excuses for this on their behalf.

There's cautious and then there's flat out babying and being over protective; Pop's approach is clearly the latter. Ginobili has supposedly been fine for days, had 3 days off after his first game back and he plays him 18 minutes? I don't see the Celtics or the Lakers "trying things out" or "seeing what they can get away with". You don't "test shit out" against one of the two best teams in the league. The Spurs aren't so much better than the Celtics that they can do that and still expect to win and I assume Pop knows this, so all that tells me is that Pop wasn't taking this game seriously. Pop has simply outsmarted himself.

Other than Blair, these guys are all established, veteran players. If Pop doesn't "know what he has", then this team has got far more serious issues than they're letting on. Everyone knows these guy's strength's and weaknesses; it's not hard to put them in the best possible position to succeed.

[VBM]

Bumping an old thread to show that, in two months, we really haven't progressed at all. Should save site space from all the new threads popping up...

[easy7]

Spurs VS the Nets might be a true test now.

[Sean Cagney]

Bumping an old thread to show that, in two months, we really haven't progressed at all. Should save site space from all the new threads popping up...

L's L's L's, thats all we have gotten out of our TRUE tests. :depressed