The Beginning Of The Dissolution?

[1369]

From the Atlantic (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/12/leaving-the-right.html)

Little Green Footballs (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/35243_Why_I_Parted_Ways_With_The_Right/)


To paraphrase Reagan, I didn't leave the conservative movement. It left me.

And increasingly, I'm not alone.

[RandomGuy]

The Atlantic article pretty much sums it up for me, paraphrased Reagan and all.

Contrary to what some would like to believe, I have always considered myself center-right on most issues.

Since being labeled a screaming liberal by the truly hysterical right when Bush was elected, I have taken up the mantle and played the part of a "liberal", because it is fun to mess with their heads.

[spursncowboys]

1. I don't see, going by his voting record, how Kerry would have changed any of these for the better, more conservative choice. If he was a real Conservative, why would he not choose Perot over Clinton. I have an idea.
2. Conservatives don't believe harsh interrogations is torture. It is a difference of definition. I don't think we should torture but think making a terrorists stand more than half an hour is not torture.
3. About the gay thing. The referendums every time says that the American people and not the conservatives believe gays should not be married. Furtermore there are tons of non social conservative conservatives. Guilliani, Paul, Romney, Newt, any Libertarian Conservative.
4. Having a realistic foreign policy is always been a conservative's core principle.

WHy go after Beck and Limbaugh? WHy do these "Conservatives" go after other conservatives always? When the liberals are the majority and making policies that go against everything this guy allegedly believes in, why not go against them, instead of writing about how the conservatives left him? Because they aren't conservatives. Sullivan and all the other RINO's care more about being liked by the socialites and elites. He cares more about Atlantic and NYT readers than National Review and Cato readers. Maybe conservatives did leave him behind and I agree that Bush did create too much domestic govt. and spent more money. But what will fix it? Kerry? BHO? Since BHO nd McCain both don't believe in gay marriage, McCain should have been this guys choice. Yet he picked BHO. That should say it all.

[spursncowboys]

1. I don't see, going by his voting record, how Kerry would have changed any of these for the better, more conservative choice. If he was a real Conservative, why would he not choose Perot over Clinton. I have an idea.
2. Conservatives don't believe harsh interrogations is torture. It is a difference of definition. I don't think we should torture but think making a terrorists stand more than half an hour is not torture.
3. About the gay thing. The referendums every time says that the American people and not the conservatives believe gays should not be married. Furtermore there are tons of non social conservative conservatives. Guilliani, Paul, Romney, Newt, any Libertarian Conservative.
4. Having a realistic foreign policy is always been a conservative's core principle.

WHy go after Beck and Limbaugh? WHy do these "Conservatives" go after other conservatives always? When the liberals are the majority and making policies that go against everything this guy allegedly believes in, why not go against them, instead of writing about how the conservatives left him? Because they aren't conservatives. Sullivan and all the other RINO's care more about being liked by the socialites and elites. He cares more about Atlantic and NYT readers than National Review and Cato readers. I agree that Bush did create too much domestic govt. and spent more money. But what will fix it? Kerry? BHO? Since BHO nd McCain both don't believe in gay marriage, McCain should have been this guys choice. Yet he picked BHO. That should say it all.

[clambake]

i couldn't agree more.

the core of this base is absolute white trash.

[ElNono]

A good list to review what's wrong with the GOP...

[EmptyMan]

i couldn't agree more.

the core of this base is absolute white trash.

They serve their purpose. Just as the ghetto welfare babies do for the left. Ouch. Sorry to go there, just ying-yangin' ya braaaaaah.

[ElNono]

They serve their purpose. Just as the ghetto welfare babies do for the left. Ouch. Sorry to go there, just ying-yangin' ya braaaaaah.

Viewed like that... you certainly have a point. I'm certainly glad neither side has enough to win an election...

[clambake]

i don't think you guys know anything about the left.

[ElNono]

i don't think you guys know anything about the left.

What did we miss?

[clambake]

most of us are center right.

[ElNono]

most of us are center right.

Then you don't know much about the left either...

[clambake]

Then you don't know much about the left either...

i know what it is.

you guys don't know who's in it.

[Winehole23]

you guys don't know who's in it.Who, for example?

"Left", like the word *liberal*, mostly gets tossed around as a pejorative. I never quite know what people mean by it, except that they dislike/like the person it describes.

[clambake]

Who, for example?

"Left", like the word *liberal*, mostly gets tossed around as a pejorative. I never quite know what people mean by it, except that they dislike/like the person it describes.

anyone that opposed the last administration is labeled.

[Winehole23]

I meant, what do you mean by it, clambake?

Who's "really" on the left, in your view?

[rjv]

i'm pretty damn sure i'm on the left.

[clambake]

I meant, what do you mean by it, clambake?

Who's "really" on the left, in your view?

pelosi scares the hell outta me.

[rjv]

pelosi scares the hell outta me.

this is what makes me certain that i am on the left. i do not consider pelosi to be on the left.

[clambake]

this is what makes me certain that i am on the left. i do not consider pelosi to be on the left.

i don't think any of her positions are based on her own analysis.

[ElNono]

I like to think I'm in the center, mostly...

[Winehole23]

i do not consider pelosi to be on the left.Nor Harry Reid, nor Obama for that matter, IMO.

We have one fake right wing party and one fake left wing party. Both are statist and corporatist, and both occupy the political center. Whether GOP and Dems are both center right or both center left can be reasonably disputed, but "far right" and "far left" barely exist in American politics, except as partisan hyperbole.

[rjv]

Nor Harry Reid, nor Obama for that matter, IMO.

We have one fake right wing party and one fake left wing party. Both are statist and corporatist, and both occupy the political center. Whether GOP and Dems are both center right or both center left can be reasonably disputed, but "far right" and "far left" barely exist in American politics, except as partisan hyperbole.

i completely agree. i often wonder why people really even "cheer" for politicians (or, conversely, villify) when in essence the line between most politicos is a blurred one.

[Winehole23]

i completely agree. i often wonder why people really even "cheer" for politicians (or, conversely, villify) when in essence the line between most politicos is a blurred one.The narcissism of small differences.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Little Green Footballs (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/35243_Why_I_Parted_Ways_With_The_Right/)

just one less blogger for yoni to plagarize

[spursncowboys]

I love how some on here who are huge party apologists and cheerleaders. Now you talk how much you are above that and start to belittle them.

[clambake]

I love how some on here who are huge party apologists and cheerleaders. Now you talk how much you are above that and start to belittle them.

go ahead. line up all the people here that are pelosi fans.

[Winehole23]

I love how some on here who are huge party apologists and cheerleaders. Now you talk how much you are above that and start to belittle them.Because after all, you can either be 100% Dem or 100% GOP, with nothing in between, and nothing else besides.

Anyone who makes distinctions among or makes a big show of disliking fellow partisans, must be a hypocrite or a liar. There's no other reasonable explanation. :wakeup

[ElNono]

Because after all, you can either be 100% Dem or 100% GOP, with nothing in between, and nothing else besides.

Anyone who makes distinctions among or makes a big show of disliking fellow partisans, must be a hypocrite or a liar. There's no other reasonable explanation. :wakeup

He gets his ideas from his leaders... to paraphrase: "You either with us or against us"... :rolleyes

[spursncowboys]

Because after all, you can either be 100% Dem or 100% GOP, with nothing in between, and nothing else besides.

Anyone who makes distinctions among or makes a big show of disliking fellow partisans, must be a hypocrite or a liar. There's no other reasonable explanation. :wakeup

That is not what I wrote or meant.

[Winehole23]

That is not what I wrote or meant.What did you mean? I didn't see anyone pretending to be above it all, just posters sharing their opinions.

[Winehole23]

clambake and a number of other notable board libs have stated their dislike of Pelosi. Repeatedly. I have no reason to think it isn't genuine.

[Winehole23]

Board conservatives can't seem to stop griping about demented Obama cultists -- despite the fact that there really aren't that many of them on this board. I can think of maybe two, and one of them barely posts here.

That strawman is almost completely out of stuffing. You should give it a rest, SnC. Acknowledge the disillusionment of Obama's supporters. It's real. Continuing to pretend it doesn't exist -- and that everyone who voted for him is a still a moon-eyed acolyte -- is neither realistic nor politically astute IMO.

[mogrovejo]

Nor Harry Reid, nor Obama for that matter, IMO.

We have one fake right wing party and one fake left wing party. Both are statist and corporatist, and both occupy the political center. Whether GOP and Dems are both center right or both center left can be reasonably disputed, but "far right" and "far left" barely exist in American politics, except as partisan hyperbole.

This discourse is a perfect example of hardcore, sectarian, partisan hyperbole, isn't it?

Do you really think there's no substantial difference between Nancy Pelosi and Jeff Flake?

[DarkReign]

I'm staunchly anti-partisan. This has more to do with a complete and utter distrust and outright hatred for my government in its entirety than anything else.

My United States of America is not defined by the political makeup of government, but by the mutual distrust of government by my fellow Americans.

Sadly, its obvious my fellow Americans are sheep as of my generation. This place isnt for me in another generation if everyone keeps looking to government for a solution.

[clambake]

Sadly, its obvious my fellow Americans are sheep as of my generation. This place isnt for me in another generation if everyone keeps looking to government for a solution.

DR, i look at obama as a chemotherapy. it's a harsh poison that's needed to kill the cancer.

[mogrovejo]

I'm not sure what this thread is about. Sullivan stopped being a conservative a long time ago, if he ever was one. He is a man full of hate and contempt for his fellow human beings, blinded with an agenda of urban/homosexual supremacism, who has no hesitations on embarking in smear campaigns even if they involve trashing recently born babies. Some of the stuff he wrote about Hillary and Bill Clinton during the primaries was downright creepy and scary. When was the last time Sullivan defended a conservative cause? Calling everyone who doesn't agree with one's worldview "hater" and "bigot" doesn't make one a conservative (quite the contrary) and that's all that Sullivan does.

As for Johnson, that I had the chance to met personally in the past and change a few words, hasn't he always been a socialist? The guy nurtures an intense (and, from my point of view, highly disturbing) dislike for Islamism and Muslins and is a radical Zionist, but I have no idea how can this make him a conservative. He supported every big government policy from Bush, he sees a Nazi in every one who doesn't swear to be ready to die for Israel and that's pretty much it. I was always embarrassed to see American conservatism being associated with this lunatic. Btw, I find it amusing that someone who equates the pro-life position to "throwing women back into the Dark Ages, and general religious fanaticism" and scepticism about one scientific issue about which there's no consensus in the scientific community as "anti-science bad craziness" has the guts to call his opponents haters and bigots.

What dissolution?

[clambake]

thats how he acted when he was a staunch conservative.

[Nbadan]

The Atlantic article pretty much sums it up for me, paraphrased Reagan and all.

Contrary to what some would like to believe, I have always considered myself center-right on most issues.

That explains a lot...

[Nbadan]

The narcissism of small differences.

...small differences? really? :wow

[Nbadan]

Board conservatives can't seem to stop griping about demented Obama cultists -- despite the fact that there really aren't that many of them on this board. I can think of maybe two, and one of them barely posts here.

That strawman is almost completely out of stuffing. You should give it a rest, SnC. Acknowledge the disillusionment of Obama's supporters. It's real. Continuing to pretend it doesn't exist -- and that everyone who voted for him is a still a moon-eyed acolyte -- is neither realistic nor politically astute IMO.

I think Obama is doing the best he can in a very tough situation....and when you consider a Palin or Huckabee alternative, Obama IS a saint....

[Nbadan]

Everyone expects Obama to come in and solve problems it took Dubya and the GOP congress eight years to construct....name one GOP program that has worked as promised..

[Winehole23]

This discourse is a perfect example of hardcore, sectarian, partisan hyperbole, isn't it?

Do you really think there's no substantial difference between Nancy Pelosi and Jeff Flake?We have zero avowed Marxists in the US Congress. Can you say the same about Portugal or Spain? This is what I mean when I say there is no far left in the USA.

We also lack the equivalent of a Georg Haider or JM Le Pen in our representative bodies. This is what I mean when I say we lack a far right.

Is saying that hardcore, sectarian, partisan hyperbole? Really?



Now, I will readily agree there is a substantial difference between Jeff Flake and Nancy Pelosi. But it is the difference -- considered globally, right? -- between center left and center right.

[Winehole23]

He supported every big government policy from Bush, he sees a Nazi in every one who doesn't swear to be ready to die for Israel and that's pretty much it.Hardly distinctive. This describes soi disant American conservatism during Bush to a "T".

The election of Obama caused our bogus conservatives to rediscover libertarianism and limited government. When they return to power, they'll forget it again.

[EVAY]

Hardly distinctive. This describes soi disant American conservatism during Bush to a "T".

The election of Obama caused our bogus conservatives to rediscover libertarianism and limited government. When they return to power, they'll forget it again.

But they showed themselves to be SO bogus that they were exposed as nothing other than Republican Party Apologists, unwilling to control their own spending as long as their party's candidate was in the WH, and caring not a whit whether or not the policies they promulgated were consistent with what 'conservatism' actually meant before the Religious Right shanghied the Party.

[Winehole23]

But they showed themselves to be SO bogus that they were exposed as nothing other than Republican Party Apologists, unwilling to control their own spending as long as their party's candidate was in the WH, and caring not a whit whether or not the policies they promulgated were consistent with what 'conservatism' actually meant before the Religious Right shanghied the Party.For me it wasn't the the religious right. It was the liberal internationalists -- the Cold War liberals, if you will -- that shanghaid the party. Goldwater was the precocious symptom, Ronald Reagan was the Night of the Body Snatchers that turned American conservatism into an avatar of Woodrow Wilson plus liberal anti-communism, plus statist kulturkampf.