37 Toll Roads Planned for SA with 18 Foreign Controlled

[Twisted_Dawg]

(This should probably be in the political forum, but screw it, people need to know what is coming)

Toll roads are not just an issue for the 281 crowd any more....toll roads coming to YOUR neighborhood!

(San Antonio, TX, December 3, 2009)
While San Antonians were enjoying turkey and counting their blessings this Thanksgiving, their politicians were scurrying to load-up the Metropolitan Planning Organization’s (MPO) long-range plan with no less than 37 toll projects, with 18 of them slated to come under foreign control using controversial private toll contracts called Comprehensive Development Agreements (or CDAs). http://www.texasturf.org/

A sample list of toll projects on the docket:


Hwy 90 (from 410 to 211)
I-10 (from 410 to county line)
Loop 1604 (just about the entire loop, not just the north half)
281 (from 1604 to Comal County line)
I-37 (from 410 south to Atascosa County line)
Bandera Rd (from 410 to1604 appears despite amendment to remove it)
interchange at I-10 & 1604
interchange at 281 & 1604 (northbound ramps)
interchange at 1604 & 151
interchange at 1604 & 90
interchange at 1604 & 1-35
interchange at I-35 & 410
Kelly Pkwy/Spur 371 (US 90 to SH 16)
ALL of I-35 (from Atascosa to Comal County line)


Grassroots groups like TURF ( http://www.texasturf.org/) have fought and defeated CDAs during a special called session of the Texas legislature in July,
yet the MPO plugged these now illegal contracts into its plan anyway, apparently following TxDOT’s playbook of using it as a means to get CDAs
re-authorized over the LOUD OPPOSITION of Texans in the next legislative session in 2011.

TURF is urging concerned citizens to demand the MPO:

1) REMOVE toll roads and CDAs from its plans.

2) Use traditional gas tax funding NOT privatizing and tolling Texas roads as its source of funding for these projects.

3) NOT VOTE for ANY plan with toll projects and CDAs in it.

As an example of just what a taxpayer disaster it is to hand control of our public roads to foreign toll operators, Canadian drivers on a road operated by Spain-based Cintra (who has won three Texas contracts already), received their first bill totaling thousands of dollars in fines years after they supposedly took the tollway. The government has no power to step-in and protect motorists from runaway taxation nor disputed toll fines. A recent article in the Toronto Star chronicles the nightmare: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/fixer/article/726246--province-says-it-s-powerless-on-hwy-407-bills?bn=1

Here's some of the anti-taxpayer provisions involved in CDA sweetheart deals:

- In Texas, they can last up to 52 years
- Contracts are kept secret from the public until AFTER they're signed
- Charge oppressively high toll rates, like 75 cents PER MILE (like the deals in DFW) which on average will mean $3,000 a year in new taxes on driving
-Grant foreign companies the right to levy taxes, the power to take away drivers licenses or car/license plate registration
-Removes rights of due process for toll violations and fines
-Non-compete agreements that guarantee congestion on the free routes
-Guaranteed annual profits (so they can raise the toll rates to whatever price needed so they always get their guaranteed level of profit)
-Massive taxpayer subsidies (so it's a double and even triple tax scenario) yet all the profits leave Texas
-Slower speed limits on free routes and higher speed limits on the tollways to drive more traffic to the toll roads


“We’ve been warning San Antonians for years that Rick Perry has made his toll tax policy so expansive, they won’t be able to escape it. I haven’t met a single Texan outside the Capitol that thinks it’s a good idea to cede control of our Texas roads to foreign companies,” observes Terri Hall, Founder/Director of TURF.

For the first time, we see the top-end price for toll roads....up to 75 cents per mile as authorized by TXDOT. Think about that. 75 cents per mile paid to a foreign company who will manage our highway system! Total corruption using no-bid contracts.

Support Kay Bailey Hutchinson, Democrat Bill White or whomever runs against Rick Perry.

[PM5K]

I don't know that I oppose toll roads, I can honestly say I don't know much about it, but it seems these toll road proponents seem to go about it all the wrong way.

If the people that sold Obama sold toll roads we'd all be driving on them right now.

[DPG21920]

Toll roads are a must for big cities. Dallas road systems with tolls >>>>>>>>>> SA.

[exstatic]

I don't know that I oppose toll roads, I can honestly say I don't know much about it, but it seems these toll road proponents seem to go about it all the wrong way.

If the people that sold Obama sold toll roads we'd all be driving on them right now.

I wouldn't object to toll roads if they were built with bonds, the tolls paid off the bonds, and then they were free.

That isn't the case, though. These foreign companies OWN the fucking roads, which I find to be an abomination. In addition, to make money, they will take shit care of them, and we won't get any joy from the state to enforce maintenance, since we don't OWN THE FUCKING ROADS. Our great to the Nth grandchildren will have to pay to drive on roads they should own.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.

The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. Fucking absurd.

BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).

We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.

And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell... :lol

[PM5K]

I'll just drive my solar powered bike then...

[TDMVPDPOY]

revenue raising :D:D

[kbrury]

hmmm I don't think it will affect my drive to school considering I drive from Schertz. Ive never really had any traffic problems going on 1604 east or west.

[Blake]

A sample list of toll projects on the docket:


Hwy 90 (from 410 to 211)
I-10 (from 410 to county line)
Loop 1604 (just about the entire loop, not just the north half)
281 (from 1604 to Comal County line)
I-37 (from 410 south to Atascosa County line)
Bandera Rd (from 410 to1604 appears despite amendment to remove it)
interchange at I-10 & 1604
interchange at 281 & 1604 (northbound ramps)
interchange at 1604 & 151
interchange at 1604 & 90
interchange at 1604 & 1-35
interchange at I-35 & 410
Kelly Pkwy/Spur 371 (US 90 to SH 16)
ALL of I-35 (from Atascosa to Comal County line)



seems to me the only highway sections not mentioned are 281 from 410 to 1604 and 410 E until it merges with I-35.

Seems a bit sensationalistic to me........going from none to 14 in a heartbeat......

what is the time frame supposed to be? I didnt see any in the article.

[kbrury]

seems to me the only highway sections not mentioned are 281 from 410 to 1604 and 410 E until it merges with I-35.

Seems a bit sensationalistic to me........going from none to 14 in a heartbeat......

what is the time frame supposed to be? I didnt see any in the article.


It is a bit much, really our traffic is not that bad to warrant these many tolls. But they probably don't care and just want the money .

[Blake]

yeah......I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the 'article' is bunk.

[MiamiHeat]

Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.

The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. Fucking absurd.

BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).

We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.

And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell... :lol


No, we need roads.

The solution to the oil problem isn't to stop using vehicles.

The solution is to find another power source.

[TDMVPDPOY]

No, we need roads.

The solution to the oil problem isn't to stop using vehicles.

The solution is to find another power source.

best bet, invest in a horse

[ChumpDumper]

I used 130 and 45 toll roads to get down to SA yesterday and I can see why they are toll roads since they built so far ahead of any development that would justify them (and it was a godsend during rush hour), but this list in the OP makes no sense. I'm going to call BS until corroborated.

[sabar]

Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.

The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. Fucking absurd.

BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).

We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.

And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell... :lol

There were transportation and roads before gasoline engines :lol.

We will switch to electric cars for people, stream/electric trains for freight, nuclear for container ships, and liquid rocket fuel or unconventional gasses/liquids for aircraft.

As a matter of fact, if anyone should be worried it is the airline industry, where alternatives are very limited due to space/weight/efficiency.

[Bender]

hmm, looks like tolls the entire way between my house and my work.

Guess I'll drive the whole way thru neighborhoods then, waste more gas and piss people off in neighborhoods with the increased traffic thru neighborhoods.

edit: didn't see blake and Chump's BS calls at first. Hopefully they are right.

[EricB]

More moronic government at work....

[SAGambler]

Toll roads are simply a matter of government running out of money and privatising something it used to do from tax revenue. User pays world.

The funniest thing about this is how not one government in the world will yet accept that in 20 years oil will be scarce and super-expensive, and the roads will be empty. Not one national government yet has a plan to deal with peakoil. Fucking absurd.

BTW, peakoil is not whacky science, it is FACT. We know pretty much know (within a few percent) how much oil is left on the planet, and at projected consumption rates that will last 35-45 years. Long before that we will have rationing. Oil and Gas journal - don't believe me go look it up, or talk to someone in the petroleum business (not a flak, a geologist - they'll tell you that this decade we are discovering 1 barrel of oil for every 6 we're using, and that's called a precursor to terminal decline).

We have 40 years of oil left, people, and the shortages will start in 10-20. STOP BUILDING ROADS.

And yes, when the oil shortage starts to bite around 2017-22, I will point to this thread and say I told you so. Of course, civilisation as we know it will probably be collapsing, so whether there will be an internet or not at that stage I can't tell... :lol

Haven't you heard? The WORLD is ending in 2012. Just in time to replenish fossil fuel for the next group that happens to emerge from it all.

[panic giraffe]

awesome news.

toll the sprawlers.

doubtful that any of the north of 410, north of 90 proposals will be passed. if you don't like it, trade in your mcmansion and move back into san antonio.

[Ditty]

I hate how they have most of the tollroads on the northside were majority of tax payers in san antonio are but they dont put them on the other side of towns where they pay less taxes then us..traffic will be a night mare espically me traveling from 1604 to 281 for work its already a 25 minute drive going to work at 70 mph I would have to leave around a hour early now

[panic giraffe]

but i do wish they were texan owned

[panic giraffe]

I hate how they have most of the tollroads on the northside were majority of tax payers in san antonio are but they dont put them on the other side of towns where they pay less taxes then us..traffic will be a night mare espically me traveling from 1604 to 281 for work its already a 25 minute drive going to work at 70 mph I would have to leave around a hour early now


well thats a horrible generalization.

besides, any of your higher property taxes are to keep your kids in bigger schools. they have nothing to due with the clusterfuck all the sprawl created on what used to be farm roads less than 20 years ago.

[jack sommerset]

Toll roads are a scam.

[mookie2001]

i like how people that are for toll roads, were also supporters of the invasion of iraq

i dont know what it is but its beyond belief fact or fictions why WASP neocons love tollroads so much

[panic giraffe]

i like how people that are for toll roads, were also supporters of the invasion of iraq

i dont know what it is but its beyond belief fact or fictions why WASP neocons love tollroads so much


i'm neither a wasp, neocon, or supporter of the invasion of iraq.
very much the opposite.

i support toll roads for a few reasons:

- i absolutely hate suburban sprawl.

- money that could be used for roads in the city gets allocated so that a select few in the burbs can drive in faster. thats just bullshit. make the latte sippers pay for their own damn roads.

- toll roads encourage public transit.

this list looks like its just trying to get tea party types in arms, it would be like making commerece a toll road, so i don't buy it, but i love the idea of toll roads in general...

me being against them would be like a rabid non-smoker being against a raise in the cigarette tax, doesn't affect them, so why worry?

[mookie2001]

i'm neither a wasp, neocon, or supporter of the invasion of iraq.
very much the opposite.

i support toll roads for a few reasons:

- i absolutely hate suburban sprawl.

- money that could be used for roads in the city gets allocated so that a select few in the burbs can drive in faster. thats just bullshit. make the latte sippers pay for their own damn roads.

- toll roads encourage public transit.


-i think everyone hates urban sprawl


- i dont really see that toll roads encourage public transit

we pay for them too, schools get built farther out, police patrol, fire, EMS. you may say you have no business in boerne ranch but you will, one day you will and it wont be worth it when youre paying out of your pocket to drive on a road, with a DL that you payed for, an inspection that you payed for, a car that you paid for, registration that you payed for, using gas that you payed for and youre taxed out the ass for, insurance that you payed for- with police patrolling to ticket you even more, how much more shit could we pay for?

you need to look at how much tax payers money was spent promoting tollroads, it will make you sick

[mookie2001]

not to mention we're selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder

[panic giraffe]

not to mention we're selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder

that's the part that bothers me.


-i think everyone hates urban sprawl


- i dont really see that toll roads encourage public transit

we pay for them too, schools get built farther out, police patrol, fire, EMS. you may say you have no business in boerne ranch but you will, one day you will and it wont be worth it when youre paying out of your pocket to drive on a road, with a DL that you payed for, an inspection that you payed for, a car that you paid for, registration that you payed for, using gas that you payed for and youre taxed out the ass for, insurance that you payed for- with police patrolling to ticket you even more, how much more shit could we pay for?

you need to look at how much tax payers money was spent promoting tollroads, its will make you sick

no if everyone hated sprawl we wouldn't have all these stuccohoods all over the outskirts of sa. people wanna have their cake and eat it too, which is fine and all, but they should pay for that cake, not me.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Seems a bit sensationalistic to me........going from none to 14 in a heartbeat......what is the time frame supposed to be? I didnt see any in the article.


yeah......I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the 'article' is bunk.


I used 130 and 45 toll roads to get down to SA yesterday and I can see why they are toll roads since they built so far ahead of any development that would justify them (and it was a godsend during rush hour), but this list in the OP makes no sense. I'm going to call BS until corroborated.


hmm, looks like tolls the entire way between my house and my work.
edit: didn't see blake and Chump's BS calls at first. Hopefully they are right.


Here it is boys. Read it and weap.

http://www.sametroplan.org/Plans/MTP/Mobility2035/Draft%20Long%20Range%20Transportation%20Plan%20Roa dway%20Project%20List.pdf

[ChumpDumper]

Is there a legend for all the acronyms listed?

If I read it right, it looks like the tolls will be on new lanes added to existing non-toll lanes for the most part. I don't mind a whole lot if there are free alternative lanes/routes. Some of the new toll roads they want to put in Austin will have no alternatives, which does suck. I do wish the whole process was more open to public input.

The OP is pretty misleading. Not much weeping necessary.

[panic giraffe]

Here it is boys. Read it and weap.

http://www.sametroplan.org/Plans/MTP/Mobility2035/Draft%20Long%20Range%20Transportation%20Plan%20Roa dway%20Project%20List.pdf


ok, maybe i'm not reading it right, but which ones are the tolls?

[Twisted_Dawg]

ok, maybe i'm not reading it right, but which ones are the tolls?

The list is from the Tolling Authorities so they dont make it easy to read. The roads with a CDA or RMA will be the tolled roads. PTF's can be converted to toll roads. But here is a summary:

CDA stands for Comprehensive Development Agreement which is also known as PPP, Public Private Partnership, where a private, foreign company generally buys the right to run and set tolls on a roadway for up to 50 years or more. These agreements always provide for non-compete clauses where no improvements can be made to free roads that might drain revenue away from the tolled road they manage and have financed. The US GAO 2004 study of these PPPs states that 100% of them contained non-compete clauses.

RMA Where the funding source is listed as RMA that means a toll road to be run and financed via bonds by the Alamo Regional Mobility Authority, that tolling authority set up by Gov Perry who appointed its head, Bill Thorton. Note that the bonds they issue will bind the city/county should the tolls prove insufficient.

PTF Pass Through financing, PTF, is where a county or city issues bonds to fund a road project where the bond is to be repaid out of future gas tax revenue. If gas tax revenues prove insufficient (based on highway use, availability of funds), then in most cases it converts to a toll road unless the county is willing to pay the deficiency. Comal County is using Pass-through financing to fund expanded HW 46 from 281 to 35 and, yes, it has a clause that permits conversion to a toll road by County Commissioner vote. (that road will cost 10%-20% of what 281 as a toll road will cost.)

As if to explain why this is happening, CDAs and tolling, I raise three points:
a) tolled roads are not subject to competitive bidding practices and are called Design-Build roads. (Hwy 281 is shown as a Design Build on the RMA website.) Non-tolled roads are subject to competitive bidding (by law, Design Build contractors cannot be selected on what they will charge, its a sweat-heart deal for the contractors who have political ties to TXDOT and Governor Perry.)

b) the Alamo RMA is funded by getting a percentage of highway contracts let. The more they spend, the more they make! The free highway improvements to 281 were $100 Million maximum; the tolled 281road, now planned as 20 lanes wide, is over $500 Million! $400 Million of extra profits to contractors, etc. (Yes, we have the original TXDOT/MPO plans all documented.) Remember, they are planning to spend $500 million on an 8 mile stretch of road where we already own 90% of the easement!

Lastly, c) tolled roads may charge whatever they want and use the funds to not only pay for roadways but for other purposes such as light rail, maybe even cemeteries (as the gas tax funds were diverted to, e.g.) Its a new tax, a flat-tax on citizens.

[panic giraffe]

ok, now that i see it that way....


it really doesn't seem that bad, and the fact that its a 25yr plan make seem even more sensible.

so why the outrage? if you don't wanna pay a toll, take the existing road. if you don't wanna pay a gas tax, buy an electric or find a different way. i don't wanna pay taxes on gambling earning so i don't gamble. its pretty simple.

[Blake]

Here it is boys. Read it and weap.

http://www.sametroplan.org/Plans/MTP/Mobility2035/Draft%20Long%20Range%20Transportation%20Plan%20Roa dway%20Project%20List.pdf

the 12 projects listed here are a far cry from the amount of toll roads being reported about in your original 'article'....so I will pass on reading it and "weaping".

not to mention the time frame is set for the year 2035.......which does bother me in that 25 years to get this ball rolling is waaaaaaaay to far away. Traffic is already bad enough on 1604 from Bandera Rd to I-35 to warrant expansion at least to 6 lanes.

....and street lights along 1604 would be nice.....

[Blake]

so why the outrage? if you don't wanna pay a toll, take the existing road. if you don't wanna pay a gas tax, buy an electric or find a different way. i don't wanna pay taxes on gambling earning so i don't gamble. its pretty simple.

because theoretically, there should be enough money from taxes to pay for expansion without having to toll it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

chumpdumper: this isn't girder talk
even if its pretty innocuous in the grand scheme of things, why would we not want to fight greasy, slickdick, high and mighty foreigners from collecting this money? On principle alone.

It's just another brick in the wall of selling out our own country. Fat pig fuckers like Glen Beck will rally up the neocon nation about selling out sovereignity via climate bills, yet won't say a word about cintra, or all the other cracked ass foreign fat cats who want to own a piece of america. Literally.

[ChumpDumper]

chumpdumper: this isn't girder talk
even if its pretty innocuous in the grand scheme of things, why would we not want to fight greasy, slickdick, high and mighty foreigners from collecting this money? On principle alone.How do you know they are greasy and slick-dicked? You seem to have a lot of information on them not found in these pages.

And what are you going to do to fight them?


It's just another brick in the wall of selling out our own country. Fat pig fuckers like Glen Beck will rally up the neocon nation about selling out sovereignity via climate bills, yet won't say a word about cintra, or all the other cracked ass foreign fat cats who want to own a piece of america. Literally.I'm all for raising the gasoline tax to pay for these roads.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Toll roads are a scam.

A "scam" where SEVERAL VERY WEALTHY monied interests make a LOT of money off the taxpayers. Right now we have former city manager Terri Brechtel and former mayor Bill Thornton running the local MPO. They are wealthy and paid very well not to mention all the "perks" that come with the "job". Next, all the engineering firms, law firms and lobbyist also making a lot of money. Then waiting in the wings are the road construction companies prepared to make a killing tearing down an existing freeway like IH-10 N and rebuilding it to a Tool Road. Then finally, the operator of the Toll Road (i.e. Cinta form Spain) with a sweetheart deal making billions fo ryears to come...all at you expense.


not to mention we're selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder


that's the part that bothers me.

Exactly! The country went nuts a couple of years ago when the idea was floated to sell the port of LA to a Middle Eastern country. If we are going ro sell our roads, why dont we also sell our power plants, dams, railroads, etc.



ok, now that i see it that way....it really doesn't seem that bad, and the fact that its a 25yr plan make seem even more sensible.

so why the outrage? if you don't wanna pay a toll, take the existing road. if you don't wanna pay a gas tax, buy an electric or find a different way. i don't wanna pay taxes on gambling earning so i don't gamble. its pretty simple.

Giraffe, what about the hard working blue collar workers, mostly minorities who will have to pay that toll tax to go out to work at those construction sites each day? You think they have the money for that or will be able to pass that cost on to the contractor? And Giraffe, what if you have a repairman coming to you house and built into his bill is a fee for the added expense of the toll roads?


because theoretically, there should be enough money from taxes to pay for expansion without having to toll it.

History lesson: The current State gas tax is 20 cents per gallon. Several years ago, our "wise" state politicians took 5 cents of this to help fund public schools, since they were cutting back on other funding ot the schools. Then a few years ago these politicians took another 5 cents to help fund DPS structures and cemetaries. So in the last few yerars the State has taken 50% of the gas tax and spent it elswhere. A couple of years ago, a TxDot official said that if there was a 8 cent per gallon raise in the gas tax, that should bring in enough money to build all the roads they need with out toll roads.

[panic giraffe]

I'm all for raising the gasoline tax to pay for these roads.


hell no. why raise taxes on EVERYONE when only a select few will be using most of the roads that will end up being a toll road.

toll the rich suburbanites, let everyone who choses to live, work, and pay taxes in the city keep a lower gas tax.

hell i even think that you should get a tax deduction for proof of purchase on public transit.

[ChumpDumper]

hell no. why raise taxes on EVERYONE when only a select few will be using most of the roads that will end up being a toll road.

toll the rich suburbanites, let everyone who choses to live, work, and pay taxes in the city keep a lower gas tax.

hell i even think that you should get a tax deduction for proof of purchase on public transit.If you could guarantee those in the inner city would never use the suburban roads, fine.

I don't think that's very practical.

[panic giraffe]

because theoretically, there should be enough money from taxes to pay for expansion without having to toll it.


money that could go to pay for roads that everyone uses not just a select few, right?

or better yet we could get a better traffic light system here and that would help as well.

[panic giraffe]

If you could guarantee those in the inner city would never use the suburban roads, fine.

I don't think that's very practical.


there would be no guarantee, but why encourage sprawl?

and why tax everyone to support a select few?

why not just raise the prop tax in those areas and then you wouldn't have to toll. its like a reverse robbin hood,tax the poor to pay for the rich.

[boutons_deux]

"selling America's infrastructure to the highest foreign bidder"

Americans refuse to pay their hated government for infrastructure construction and maintenance with taxes.

The huge explosion of infrastructure building after WWII is now past due for some very expensive maintenance.

The foreign owners will make the US citizens pay dearly.

btw, SA roads just suck, even the new stretches of 410 northside, which are wavy and bumpy. Then there is the new concrete stretches of 10 West which are bumpy, also.

How the fuck can road builders be so fucking incompetent? Must be saving money, pocketing profits by skimping on road bed stability and surface smoothness. How does the govt let them get away with such shitty product?

[ChumpDumper]

there would be no guarantee, but why encourage sprawl?The sprawl is already there. Not building roads has not been proven to discourage development -- e.g., north San Antonio, pretty much west of Austin.


and why tax everyone to support a select few?There's more than a few out there.


why not just raise the prop tax in those areas and then you wouldn't have to toll.Here the toll roads are specifically in the suburban areas (so far). Like I said, if there is still a free alternative route, I don't feel too badly about the new toll lanes.

[panic giraffe]

The sprawl is already there. Not building roads has not been proven to discourage development -- e.g., north San Antonio, pretty much west of Austin.

There's more than a few out there.

Here the toll roads are specifically in the suburban areas (so far). Like I said, if there is still a free alternative route, I don't feel too badly about the new toll lanes.


besides people in the city would still have to pay the toll if they went out there, so its a win/win for the sprawlers. just break ground already.