Jefferson sucks

[picnroll]

What a disappointment. This guy was supposed to be a difference maker?

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Well put.

[TheSpursFNRule]

He doesn't seem to give a shit. I second it. He sucks balls.

[DPG21920]

He doesn't seem to give a shit. I second it. He sucks balls.

Exactly. Well put.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Exactly. Well put.

Sarcasm?...

[Sigz]

Jefferson has always sucked.

[ffadicted]

I was super excited for him to come, and have tried in every possible way to support him.

But as of now, you're absolutely right

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Well put guys.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jefferson isn't playing well, but you guys do realize that he isn't being put in a situation to succeed, right?..

[Sigz]

Fuck his situation.

He had NO situation as a Buck and looked better than this shit.

[timtonymanu]

Haha im loving DPG's response.

[HarlemHeat37]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

[HarlemHeat37]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

[fmedrano1977]

Fuck his situation.

He had NO situation as a Buck and looked better than this shit.

Dude he's not first option anymore. Shit here runs through Duncan.

[Sigz]

what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

Slash to the fucking rim.

[DPG21920]

For real. I concur.

[Sigz]

Dude he's not first option anymore. Shit here runs through Duncan.

No shit. He can't even be a fourth option.

[fmedrano1977]

It's funny how many motherfuckers flip flop on here.

[TheSpursFNRule]

16 million dollars for 4 points. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

[Dr. Gonzo]

Tony Parker is the real problem.

[TheSpursFNRule]

no one is the problem except for RJ himself. He is so fucking bad please trade him.

[Sigz]

Jefferson will never amount to anything as a Spur.

Plus, I think he's gay.

[Johnny RIngo]

It's funny how many motherfuckers flip flop on here.

I never thought the Jefferson trade was good. I wanted someone like Carter or Sjax.

[HarlemHeat37]

well we're gonna have to live with Jefferson, so nothing we can do..his contract is gonna be impossible to move..

[BillMc]

Maybe that ESPN rumor about him not being intense enough had some truth to it....

[TheSpursFNRule]

Maybe that ESPN rumor about him not being intense enough had some truth to it....

just watch him play. the dude is so fucking bad.

[kbrury]

Maybe that ESPN rumor about him not being intense enough had some truth to it....

Actually his D on Pierce has been pretty good.

[slick'81]

well we're gonna have to live with Jefferson, so nothing we can do..his contract is gonna be impossible to move..


exactly he was given to us because of his contract no1 wants that albatross

[Ice009]

well we're gonna have to live with Jefferson, so nothing we can do..his contract is gonna be impossible to move..

I reckon the Warriors would have taken him for Sjax if we made the offer.

Sjax and Magette. They could have gotten rid of two long term contracts. Those guys would have fit a lot better for us.

Mason Jr and Jefferson for Sjax and Maggette. Would you have made that trade?

[Ice009]

Dejaun Blair.

DISRESPECT THAT YOU FUCKER WALLACE.

[picnroll]

No excuses. Jefferson sucks.

[HarlemHeat37]

We aren't going to be able to move RJ, his contract is just too big..no team has any reason to take him..

He's passed well and played good enough D in this game..he's struggling, but you guys need to be fair with the guy as well..he hasn't had a chance to establish any rhythm, he isn't getting any plays ran for him..it's tough to score later on in the game when you haven't had a chance to get into any kind of rhythm..

I'm just as disappointed as all of you, and there's a chance that he'll never fit in with this team..but it's impossible to play well when you aren't having plays ran for you..

I would have preferred Carter or Jackson as well, but it's too late for that..

[Sigz]

Forget moving him.

Just bench his ass and bring in Malik.

I'm sure his 400k salary self can score more than 4 pts against a tough team.

[HarlemHeat37]

that was a horrible miss by Jefferson, before anybody says anything LOL..wow..

[Sigz]

Fucking pathetic.

[Budkin]

Seriously one of the worst blown layups I've ever seen... talk about not being a prime time player.

[Spursfan092120]

yeah and when he drops 20 in a week he'll be your fucking hero.

[TheSpursFNRule]

nice missed 3 RJ you fucking bitch.

[Ice009]

yeah and when he drops 20 in a week he'll be your fucking hero.

NO FUCKING WAY.

RJ is going to have to do it against all the good teams for 20 + games before I will give him any props.

[timtonymanu]

Agree. I use to be patient with RJ. I understand the Spurs system is hard but geez at least look like you're out there. It irks me that he's getting paid 14 million for showing up 1/3 of the games.

[TIMMYD!]

What dumbass thought he was worth 14mil?

[Spursfan092120]

NO FUCKING WAY.

RJ is going to have to do it against all the good teams for 20 + games before I will give him any props.
You mean like he's done his whole career? He's learning a new system...geez

[spurs2112]

what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..


Make a fuckin lay up

[duhoh]

NO FUCKING WAY.

RJ is going to have to do it against all the good teams for 20 + games before I will give him any props.

you sure you wanna say that?

some of these fellas here will bring this statement back up :lol

[mexicanjunior]

yeah and when he drops 20 in a week he'll be your fucking hero.

I look forward to his offensive outbursts against the Minnesota's and Golden State's of the NBA...

[Ice009]

You mean like he's done his whole career? He's learning a new system...geez

lol All I said was that I will not give RJ props if he has a good game against Denver.

he's going to have to have consistently good games for at least 20 games before I give him any props.

I am so pissed off with him that one good game will not make any difference to me and no one else should get on the bandwagon again with only one good game.

RJ has been horrendous and needs to pick it up. Fuck the pressure. Have some confidence with your shot. Do something out there with confidence instead of being limp all the time is what I am looking for from RJ.

[Ice009]

you sure you wanna say that?

some of these fellas here will bring this statement back up :lol

Absolutely. I will not be giving him props for only his next good game.

All I care about is the Spurs playing team ball and winning the game with everyone giving it a good hard go out there. I can respect that.

If that makes me look silly later on then I'm more than cool with that if we are winning.

[Chomag]

well we're gonna have to live with Jefferson, so nothing we can do..his contract is gonna be impossible to move..

Then he better start putting out some kind of effort out there.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What about moving Manu into the starting lineup (but still keeping him to 25mins for the moment), and giving the 6th man role to RJ. I think he's a guy who needs the ball in his hands to succeed.

[EricB]

Jefferson's d on pierce was great and rj was agressively he just missed shots. Not worried at all. The usual suspects here though are not suprising...

[Purch]

What about moving Manu into the starting lineup (but still keeping him to 25mins for the moment), and giving the 6th man role to RJ. I think he's a guy who needs the ball in his hands to succeed.

How about putting Manu and Jefferson both in the starting lineup?

The Bench is productive with or without Manu and if needed they can put Dice on the Bench for that mid range jumpshot.

The real problem I saw was how much the starters got outscored.


These are the two games Manu and Jefferson played together since Duncan and Parker were out Most of Jefferson's points were just off Manu getting the ball to him off cuts.

http://i46.tinypic.com/34xmik3.jpg

These are the stats for the lineup

Parker
Manu
Jefferson
Duncan
Bonner

http://i48.tinypic.com/29qea7k.jpg

I think for maximum production out of Jefferson him and Manu need to be played at the same time. I think Pop should have faith in his Bench without Manu it's already 3rd in the leauge in production.

[HarlemHeat37]

What about moving Manu into the starting lineup (but still keeping him to 25mins for the moment), and giving the 6th man role to RJ. I think he's a guy who needs the ball in his hands to succeed.

This is probably our best option at this point..

The problem then becomes our lack of size at the 2-3..I don't think Manu can play significant minutes at the 3, and Bogans isn't big/athletic enough to play at the 3 IMO..

[HarlemHeat37]

How about putting Manu and Jefferson both in the starting lineup?

The Bench is productive with or without Manu and if needed they can put Dice on the Bench for that mid range jumpshot.

The real problem I saw was how much the starters got outscored.


These are the two games Manu and Jefferson played together since Duncan and Parker were out Most of Jefferson's points were just off Manu getting the ball to him off cuts.

http://i46.tinypic.com/34xmik3.jpg

These are the stats for the lineup

Parker
Manu
Jefferson
Duncan
Bonner

http://i48.tinypic.com/29qea7k.jpg

I think for maximum production out of Jefferson him and Manu need to be played at the same time. I think Pop should have faith in his Bench without Manu it's already 3rd in the leauge in production.


The perimeter defense will suffer significantly with a Parker-Ginobili-Jefferson lineup IMO..

[Ice009]

What about moving Manu into the starting lineup (but still keeping him to 25mins for the moment), and giving the 6th man role to RJ. I think he's a guy who needs the ball in his hands to succeed.

Yeah I am happy to try that. I don't want RJ forced to start like we did Hedo to keep some kind of fake confidence. If he is not working out starting then try benching him.

How about Blair starting too? Could start the game off with more energy.

[Pauleta14]

I'm in to make it the longest thread ever!

[SenorSpur]

I don't agree that RJ sucks at all. Are we forgetting how productive he was in Parker's absence. He can and should be more involved.

I was pleased to see TP finally start looking to get the ball to him on a couple of occasions. The flow could be better, but at least it was a start. RJ did miss some shots, but he needs to stay aggressive and the Spurs need to do more to get him in the flow.

[Purch]

I don't agree that RJ sucks at all. Are we forgetting how productive he was in Parker's absence. He can and should be more involved.

I was pleased to see TP finally start looking to get the ball to him on a couple of occasions. The flow could be better, but at least it was a start. RJ did miss some shots, but he needs to stay aggressive and the Spurs need to do more to get him in the flow.

People seem to believe that a contender with so many new pieces is supposed to be an instant success. Though in the end I think the 4 stars will end up starting.

[HarlemHeat37]

Almost all of the shots he got were created by him on the fly..he still isn't getting plays ran for him..that's a huge problem, and I have no idea why it hasn't been resolved yet..

[ElNono]

He did miss some easy shots today... but Pop really needs to get him involved. I mean, what the fuck they do the last 4 days? Plenty of time to draw a play or two for the guy and practice it to death.
I really can't think Pop is so fucking challenged getting somebody going offensively. If he really expects RJ just to 'fit in' in our offense, don't expect much from him.

[Big P]

Slash to the fucking rim.

Thank you! :toast

[Pauleta14]

I don't agree that RJ sucks at all. Are we forgetting how productive he was in Parker's absence. He can and should be more involved.

I was pleased to see TP finally start looking to get the ball to him on a couple of occasions. The flow could be better, but at least it was a start. RJ did miss some shots, but he needs to stay aggressive and the Spurs need to do more to get him in the flow.


The pb I think is that he needs to be one of the first two options on a team to be efficient, he needs to tuch the ball a lot to feel confident!
And that won't happen with the spurs as long as Tony, Timmy and Manu are healthy!!
He is a good player, but can't feet the "role player" costume in the spurs's system...

[Purch]

Thank you! :toast

He does and Manu finds him as you saw when Duncan and Parker were out. In the first half Jefferson was cutting but no one was passing it to him so why continue passing if no one will find you?

The Spurs should model how they play their stars after how Boston plays Rondo,Pierce,Ray and Kg

[ElNono]

The pb I think is that he needs to be one of the first two options on a team to be efficient, he needs to tuch the ball a lot to feel confident!
And that won't happen with the spurs as long as Tony, Timmy and Manu are healthy!!
He is a good player, but can't feet the "role player" costume in the spurs's system...

I think he can... but he's different from other players... Manu is a creative guy, so if you run a play for him great, and if you don't, then he'll make something up... but RJ is a guy that needs to get a shot or two up and going to get started and gain confidence... right now, he ain't getting anything.
I think it's also the fact that Tony and Tim feel they should be scorers 1 and 2 out there, and the rest should get the scraps... in a way, our system always kinda worked like that...

[Purch]

I think he can... but he's different from other players... Manu is a creative guy, so if you run a play for him great, and if you don't, then he'll make something up... but RJ is a guy that needs to get a shot or two up and going to get started and gain confidence... right now, he ain't getting anything.

This is where it becomes Pop's job

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Melo next game will be an interesting test for Bogans and RJ.

[HarlemHeat37]

It continues the trend we've seen all year..

First he couldn't get a play when Jason Kapono was guarding him..tonight he couldn't get a play when fucking Ray Allen was guarding him..

we heard Pop talking the entire off-season..he was telling everybody how the Spurs went out and acquired a guy to help bring some fire power to a team that needed more talent to compete with the better teams..

It doesn't make sense to me that a guy that believes that doesn't run a play for the guy..

[ElNono]

TBH, I don't mind Bogans out there playing D. But if we have him out there, against good teams we also need more than 2 clearly defined scorers... otherwise, it's relatively easy to shut us down...

[Purch]

It continues the trend we've seen all year..

First he couldn't get a play when Jason Kapono was guarding him..tonight he couldn't get a play when fucking Ray Allen was guarding him..

we heard Pop talking the entire off-season..he was telling everybody how the Spurs went out and acquired a guy to help bring some fire power to a team that needed more talent to compete with the better teams..

It doesn't make sense to me that a guy that believes that doesn't run a play for the guy..

Exactly this is something that should have been worked with in the pre season. Did they expect Jefferson to get involved with no set plays.

[Mavs<Spurs]

Pop needs to run more plays for him. Jefferson needs to stop settling for jumpers. Tony and Tim are not enough scoring by themselves as the starting unit. Either Jefferson or Manu has to be that third starting scorer.

[ElNono]

One thing nobody really noticed because perhaps it's not as expected, but it's the exact same deal with Dice. We all know he's got a killer jumper, but I'll be surprised if he took more than 3 shots tonight. It pisses me off too because Pop pretty much sat him out after he missed a jumper or two, but played Bonner all fucking night when Matt couldn't buy a bucket.

[Mavs<Spurs]

One thing nobody really noticed because perhaps it's not as expected, but it's the exact same deal with Dice. We all know he's got a killer jumper, but I'll be surprised if he took more than 3 shots tonight. It pisses me off too because Pop pretty much sat him out after he missed a jumper or two, but played Bonner all fucking night when Matt couldn't buy a bucket.

McDyess was a nonfactor on offense, but he's a much better defensive big man. In general, we're much better off when McDyess is on the floor instead of Bonner. That said, tonight McDyess was a nonfactor and Bonner actually rebounded decently. Doesn't mean Bonner should have been in, but ...

[5in10]

Dejaun Blair.

DISRESPECT THAT YOU FUCKER WALLACE.

+100 fuck yeah

[Sean Cagney]

One thing nobody really noticed because perhaps it's not as expected, but it's the exact same deal with Dice. We all know he's got a killer jumper, but I'll be surprised if he took more than 3 shots tonight. It pisses me off too because Pop pretty much sat him out after he missed a jumper or two, but played Bonner all fucking night when Matt couldn't buy a bucket.

I still WILL NOT GET IT... Why does he still get mins when he is cold?

[HarlemHeat37]

That may be correct, but ElNono's point is still spot-on..

Bonner is lights-out from 3s, while Dice is lights out from the mid-range..

Pop ALWAYS runs a ton of plays for Bonner..the team ALWAYS looks to get him shots all the time..I don't know if I even remember one instance of the guys looking for McDyess this year, maybe 1 or 2..

[fotan2]

I didn't pay attention to Jefferson.

But Finley was pretty good tonight except the stepping out of bound.

[redzero]

"The best acquisition in the off-season" is just not helping his team like he's supposed to.

[Mavs<Spurs]

"The best acquisition in the off-season" is just not helping his team like he's supposed to.

No, he's not. Part of it his fault, part of it is Pop's fault, part of it is a matter of making adjustments.

It's early on in the season.

But do you really want to discuss the Hornets ?

[HarlemHeat37]

I just checked out Jefferson's usage %, and it's pretty funny..if we're only counting the games with Tony and Tim, RJ's usage % is actually comparable to Matt Bonner's, and significantly lower than Mason's..kind of ridiculous..

[JustinJDW]

It's Pop's job to get Jefferson involved in the Offense. He needs to start designing and running plays for the guy. He isn't using him for his skills at all. We can't keep running the same old two ball play with Tim and Tony all game and expect to pull out wins against elite teams.

We have no problem getting Bonner and McDyess involved with picks, now we just need to get Jefferson into our Offense. Imagine how versatile and complex our Offense could be if we actually use Jefferson the right way?

[kbrury]

I just checked out Jefferson's usage %, and it's pretty funny..if we're only counting the games with Tony and Tim, RJ's usage % is actually comparable to Matt Bonner's, and significantly lower than Mason's..kind of ridiculous..

Wow thats really bad technically couldn't you say he is less then the 4th option.

[LOL@MavsFan]

What a disappointment. This guy was supposed to be a difference maker?

Just give the ball to Blair

[UnWantedTheory]

Reading some of this is actually disgusting. I hope its just frustration speaking.

[Mavs<Spurs]

I just checked out Jefferson's usage %, and it's pretty funny..if we're only counting the games with Tony and Tim, RJ's usage % is actually comparable to Matt Bonner's, and significantly lower than Mason's..kind of ridiculous..

If I get what you're saying, that does sound ridiculous, but could you please clarify what usage percentage means (not to be stupid but I am not sure if I understand it). I am taking a guess. but I am not sure.

[HarlemHeat37]

Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor...

Our leader is Tony Parker at 28%..he was also our leader last year at about 32%, which was the highest of the Duncan era, understandable since he had to carry the team for a long time with the injuries..

[redzero]

But do you really want to discuss the Hornets ?

The Hornets are playing poorly right now.

Wait! What's that? Oh, nevermind. Jefferson still sucks.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Jefferson is playing like he wants Pop to send him to Austin to be a bench warmer in the D-League. He is and has been a major league dissapointment. And Dice isn't doing much either. And why the hell did we sign T-Rat?

Sitting there tonight, we along with others were scratching our collective heads at some of the decisions being made by both Pop and the players. We have a hell of a long way to go before we can be considered anything other than a 2nd tier team. We had 4 days off to practice, build some chemistry and get ready for the Celtics. But, instead we looked tonight like we were a group of middle schoolers who met each other for the first time.

At least we saw some heart from a couple players....Duncan and Blair. Also Manu, but for some reason Pop doesn't think he should be playing in crunch time. Looking down at the huddle during timeouts I saw a team with blank stares. Time to forget about Pop's secret winning practice in the afternoon and go back to morning practices so our little girlieboyz can take their afternoon nappies! Sheeeeeesh Spurs, light a fire up your asses!!! :ihit

[Höfner]

Dude did you see that one dunk at the staerrt of the game?

[Mavs<Spurs]

Usage percentage is an estimate of the percentage of team plays used by a player while he was on the floor...

Our leader is Tony Parker at 28%..he was also our leader last year at about 32%, which was the highest of the Duncan era, understandable since he had to carry the team for a long time with the injuries..

thanks.

that was helpful.

and it does sound ridiculous.

[EricB]

A forum full of people new to December spurs basketball apparently.

[SenorSpur]

Pop should try running plays to get RJ off early. Same with Dice.

[kbrury]

then Mr. Longoria will be bitching to the press

link?

[BOHOLANO#21]

Jefferson is a fag.. Damn bastard is paid 14 million only to have 4 fuckin points...

[BOHOLANO#21]

Jefferson is a fag.. Damn bastard is paid 14 million only to have 4 fuckin points...

[SouthTexasRancher]

Jefferson is a fag.. Damn bastard is paid 14 million only to have 4 fuckin points...

LOL...we should all be so lucky. He is becoming a joke.

[gospursgojas]

A forum full of people new to December spurs basketball apparently.

Get over yourself. I guess only real fans don't panic or care if the spurs win in dec. Huh?

Anyway, rj sucked balls tonight and has sucked balls all but like 2 games this season. He needs to figure it out.

And I don't buy blaming pop for not running plays for him. Bc pop does run plays for him. He comes off those curl screens. And sometimes gets to post up. Rj just settles for jumpshots. Its no wonder pop gives up and stops running plays. So pop does run plays for him...those are PLAYS though. Too bad rj is only used to iso at the top of the key and everyone else watch. Or cheat out on defense and get a fast break layup. And those aren't your prototypical drawn up plays. Maybe he's another kenyon martin in that jason kidd made him look a lot better than he is.

[Mr.Robinson]

He played good D tonight. We need 12 to 17 points every game from him. He'll come around. He's better than what he has shown. Long season guys. 16 games is only a fifth of the season.

[underdawg]

Get over yourself. I guess only real fans don't panic or care if the spurs win in dec. Huh?

Anyway, rj sucked balls tonight and has sucked balls all but like 2 games this season. He needs to figure it out.

And I don't buy blaming pop for not running plays for him. Bc pop does run plays for him. He comes off those curl screens. And sometimes gets to post up. Rj just settles for jumpshots. Its no wonder pop gives up and stops running plays. So pop does run plays for him...those are PLAYS though. Too bad rj is only used to iso at the top of the key and everyone else watch. Or cheat out on defense and get a fast break layup. And those aren't your prototypical drawn up plays. Maybe he's another kenyon martin in that jason kidd made him look a lot better than he is.

I've said this a couple of times in different threads, but I'm starting to question my memory. Who was the last new player we've had that immediately fit into the Spurs system? I know that doesn't give RJ a pass, but we are talking about the 16th game right?

[murpjf88]

Boy, their are a bunch of blind ignorant fucks in this forum. RJ has NEVER been an impact player, and he will NEVER be an impact player. He was useless in New Jersey, his solid year in Miluakee was due to low team expectation and the injury to Michael Redd. You are seeing exactly what your going top get from RJ. He hasn't been improving from game to game, he's regressing. He's so lost, he needs a fucking compass. Half the people in this forum want to blame everybody from TP to Pop for Jefferson's shortcomings. If you want to blame anyone, blame management for bringing him in. I knew the spurs made a terrible trade for RJ, but I bit my upper lip and watched all the praise come in. Now, all of a sudden, everybody seems to be jumping off the RJ bandwagon. Why now? Why all of a sudden? Nothing but a bunch of god damn flip floppers.

[mexicanjunior]

I've said this a couple of times in different threads, but I'm starting to question my memory. Who was the last new player we've had that immediately fit into the Spurs system?

Blair seems to be doing a pretty good job of it now...

[gospursgojas]

I've said this a couple of times in different threads, but I'm starting to question my memory. Who was the last new player we've had that immediately fit into the Spurs system? I know that doesn't give RJ a pass, but we are talking about the 16th game right?

4 pts is more than just not fitting in.

[underdawg]

Blair seems to be doing a pretty good job of it now...

And so did Hill last year, but I think it's a bit different for rookies vs. vets in the transition from a college system to a pro system vs. a pro system to another pro system. I probably should have phrased my question to be about new vets to the Spurs.

[underdawg]

4 pts is more than just not fitting in.

definitely a bad game, but I don't know how fair it is to judge him on a 16 game sample as the team itself is adjusting to changes too. 13 ppg is not 19 ppg, but he's the 3rd or 4th option now and he'll score more as his role is defined. His main purpose is defense and he's at least been aggressive and that's going to help in the long run.

[mexicanjunior]

And so did Hill last year, but I think it's a bit different for rookies vs. vets in the transition from a college system to a pro system vs. a pro system to another pro system. I probably should have phrased my question to be about new vets to the Spurs.

Horry seemed to do a decent job of fitting in when he came over in 2004...

Nothing wrong with the way Nazr played for us in the middle of 2005...

Even Mcdyess has been productive enough this year to warrant the money we gave him...

[underdawg]

Horry seemed to do a decent job of fitting in when he came over in 2004...

Nothing wrong with the way Nazr played for us in the middle of 2005...

Even Mcdyess has been productive enough this year to warrant the money we gave him...

Horry still took a year to get used to the system

Nazr averaged 6 and 6 - that's not that terrific, but he filled the role that we needed at the time. His stats actually went down over time and they were much better with New York

McDyess is still far from fitting in - some might even question his progress along with RJ

[mexicanjunior]

Horry still took a year to get used to the system

Nazr averaged 6 and 6 - that's not that terrific, but he filled the role that we needed at the time. His stats actually went down over time and they were much better with New York

McDyess is still far from fitting in - some might even question his progress along with RJ

I thought Horry did what was asked of him in 2004 and earned his money...

Nazr also filled the role asked of him and was definitely a key contributer against the Pistons frontline in the 2005 Finals.

Mcdyess was brought in to play post defense, rebound and hit the occasional outside jumper. This game aside, when given the minutes, I think he has done just that.

[lennyalderette]

jeff is sucking right now,not to worry,hes not a moron and hes not a guy who isnt putting in effort. pop's using him wrong, and im sure pop will adjust this, but hes probably got higher priorities for the (team)and im sure hes trying to fix this. the one thing that pissed me off was mason staying in the game when he clearly was off!! or not bringing manu in when we needed him the most. what was pop thinking? brought him in at 15 sec.!!!as soon as manu came in for 15 sec. he dished a 3 to finley that of course he screwed up!! finley!! really? when our guys are off it seems they stay off. alot of our role players are mentally weak and pop needs to toughen them up. hang in there guys, its a bumpy season. we can do this

[sabar]

There is reason to panic a bit. He is being paid a large amount of money to be a jump shooter. He has trouble slashing to the hole and isn't good at defending or being part of a pick.

He needs a green light or something. He hesitates and I don't like his shot selection or him deferring. I think we have had enough of a slasher that settles for 3s on the team in Manu. He needs to force the issue when he can and get to the FT line.

[jag]

A forum full of people new to December spurs basketball apparently.

[rascal]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

Agree Jefferson is a solid player. Not the type that can carry a team by himself but a very good player. The spurs system is not using him to his capability.

[Brazil]

I'm seeing a different picture than most of you guys.
For me his main problem is he is fucking passive when he plays with tim and tp but not tonite, we can say what we want regarding his fg% but he took 13 shoots and this is the most important he will convert these fg soon, the problem was him not taking them.

[Purple & Gold]

I'm in to make it the longest thread ever!

:lol

[temujin]

It continues the trend we've seen all year..

First he couldn't get a play when Jason Kapono was guarding him..tonight he couldn't get a play when fucking Ray Allen was guarding him..

we heard Pop talking the entire off-season..he was telling everybody how the Spurs went out and acquired a guy to help bring some fire power to a team that needed more talent to compete with the better teams..

It doesn't make sense to me that a guy that believes that doesn't run a play for the guy..


Are you Jefferson's agent?

[DBMethos]

RJ needs to go to the bench. I don't think he's a good compliment for Parker and Duncan. They're continually in the lane/attacking the lane, clogging up the very same driving lanes that he prefers. It was obvious in the games played without those two that RJ was significantly more comfortable. He also seems to have a nice chemistry with Manu (well, who doesn't?), and possibly Hill as well. Being on the bench would allow him to come in and use his post up game against mediocre defenders on the opponents' second unit, without having to worry about Duncan and/or Parker drawing all the defense into the paint beforehand.

[SpurNation]

RJ is caught in an offensive scheme that...well... isn't really a scheme considering the level of competition being played against. Which...if the Spurs aren't hitting it's 3 point attempts makes it easy for even a not so defensive oriented team to defend against.

These are the 2 options the Spurs run.
1.) Guards penetrate and either attempt to score or pass out to the wing for a 3 pt. attempt.
2.) Pass into low post for shot attempt or pass out to wing for 3pt. attempt.

I don't see anything in between tried more often than those two options. Both of which does not bode well for the type of offensive player RJ is best suited to play.

He'll continue to struggle if other offensive options are not implemented that play to his strengths or if he cannnot improve in the areas of his offensive game that he struggles from the most. The latter being what we are seeing now.

For the price tag of his salary...I can understand the disappointment at not being able to do the latter with more consistancy and effectiveness. But is that his fault?

[picnroll]

A forum full of people new to December spurs basketball apparently.

TPark kissing every player and coaches ass. Still atoning for bailing on the Spurs in the middle of the '05 playoff run. :sleep


"Pop's just not running plays for him." wtf does that mean. Isn't he getting the same screens as Mason, Parker, Hill, Finley? Isn't he getting kick outs from Parker and Duncan? Maybe Pop can run some plays where the other team all takes the bench and Jefferson has a clear lane to the basket. I'm afraid Spurs have just added another big game choker to the roster. We'll see.

[SpurNation]

Regarding Stephen Jackson. He's >>> in this system than RJ. If any trade could have been done to get Jax back to SA I would have done it. That plus the fact that RJ probably would have done better in the Warriors system than the Spurs.

And if the Spurs were willing to take on Jefferson's contract...it would have made more sense to me that they took on that kind of contract with a player better suited to the team's system in Jackson.

That didn't happen...Oh Well...Go Spurs Go. Hopefully RJ will eventually be worth the money he's getting paid.

[CGD]

Maybe that ESPN rumor about him not being intense enough had some truth to it....

Just to be clear: that ESPN "rumor" was nothing more than a "cut & paste" of the opinion made by one of the 48minutesofhell.com bloggers.

ESPN is trying to stir the pot by repackaging a thoughtful opinion as a "rumor" to bolster interest for its premium content. Misleasing and disingenous if you ask me.

[to21]

Maybe they're showcasing Mason.

So we can ship his ass out of here come trade time.

[CGD]

Maybe they're showcasing Mason.

So we can ship his ass out of here come trade time.

Or just trying to get his confidence up by building on the success he had in the previous games...

[tHe210rObInHoOd]

I say bench RJ and start Manu. I think RJ coming off the bench will enable him to actually score and showcase his skills more. Among the starters he just looks lost and super passive. A second unit with Blair, RJ, Hill, Bonner and Finley/Mason/Hairston is still better than pretty much all the other benches out there.

[TJastal]

I don't agree that RJ sucks at all. Are we forgetting how productive he was in Parker's absence. He can and should be more involved.

I was pleased to see TP finally start looking to get the ball to him on a couple of occasions. The flow could be better, but at least it was a start. RJ did miss some shots, but he needs to stay aggressive and the Spurs need to do more to get him in the flow.

+1

Getting him into that 2nd unit might be the best idea however, where he will get more touches. I'm not worried about RJ, once he finds his place on the team he'll be fine.

[CGD]

I say bench RJ and start Manu. I think RJ coming off the bench will enable him to actually score and showcase his skills more. Among the starters he just looks lost and super passive. A second unit with Blair, RJ, Hill, Bonner and Finley/Mason/Hairston is still better than pretty much all the other benches out there.

I think this could be a move worth trying especially if the Spurs plan to feature Bogans as the defensive ace in the starting line up. The only downside is that the Spurs lose some size at the 2 and 3 at the start.

Energy off the bench may not be a big issue any more. As it stands the Spurs second unit, playing without Manu for a good chunk of games, is tops in the leauge. Anyone else catch the TNT's stats during the Bos-SA for our second unit? Impressive.

[21_Blessings]

Plus, I think he's gay.

Confirmed

http://www.delmarscene.com/data/squares/1213218483.jpg

[jmanu20]

While I will agree that Jefferson has played subpar overall, I wouldn't blame him for the loss vs. Boston. How about the TEN missed free throws? 8 of those fall and we win by a point, even with Blair's accidental bucket for the Celtics.

[dbestpro]

RJ needs to start and so does Manu. The big 5 need to be on the court in the beginning and in the end of the game. They need to play together until they get it right. We cannot think that we will have success any other way when it comes playoff time. They need time together and the need consistent coaching so everyone knows what their role is. Play time is over Pop. It's time to build some consistency.

[Xevious]

I've said this a couple of times in different threads, but I'm starting to question my memory. Who was the last new player we've had that immediately fit into the Spurs system? I know that doesn't give RJ a pass, but we are talking about the 16th game right?
RMJ last year saved us when we were decimated with injuries.

But regarding Jefferson, he has to grow and pair and step up. He's played his best ball so far when Tim and Tony were benched with injuries. They have to find a way to play together. Bogans isn't going to score, that's not why he's out there. Any points he puts up is gravy. And I don't expect much more than 10 a night from Dice. So unless RJ finds way to score 15 or so consistently, our second unit is going to keep playing catchup when they enter the game. No point in having the deepest bench when you have a weak starting five.

[DaBears]

Its seems to be that the only thing Jefferson has been trying to do is drive, which he forces all the time resulting in many many misses none more appearent than last nite.. Cannot throw it in the ocean.. He reminds me of Michael Finley a bit when he first got here, but not even fin looked that bad...... He just o me looking at him looks out of place his style of game doesnt appear as of right now to mix well with spurs.. And he cannot depend on his jump shot cause he never has been a really good shooter % wise.... Im not hanging him out to dry yet........ Guy i would think alot of this has to fall on the coachs lap as well its his job to put players in position to suceed, and i dont think he knows what he is doing....

Last thing.. I also seem to notice that when TP enters the game after spurs make a comeback with the bench Parker coems in and all of a sudden ball movement stops and the other team catches right back up... TP either needs to change his game and learn how to play some "DAM DEFENSE' IF YOUR GETTING BET DOWN LOW BY RONDO YOU GOT SOME ISSUES.... PARKER SUCKS AT DEFENSE... I BET IF YOU STARTED DEDUCTING MONEY FROM THEIR OVER PAIED ASSES YOU WOULD SEE BETTER DEFENSE AND MORE COMPETIVE TEAM ON THE FLOOR...

[sananspursfan21]

What dumbass thought he was worth 14mil?

the bucks

[rascal]

RJ is caught in an offensive scheme that...well... isn't really a scheme considering the level of competition being played against. Which...if the Spurs aren't hitting it's 3 point attempts makes it easy for even a not so defensive oriented team to defend against.

These are the 2 options the Spurs run.
1.) Guards penetrate and either attempt to score or pass out to the wing for a 3 pt. attempt.
2.) Pass into low post for shot attempt or pass out to wing for 3pt. attempt.

I don't see anything in between tried more often than those two options. Both of which does not bode well for the type of offensive player RJ is best suited to play.

He'll continue to struggle if other offensive options are not implemented that play to his strengths or if he cannnot improve in the areas of his offensive game that he struggles from the most. The latter being what we are seeing now.

For the price tag of his salary...I can understand the disappointment at not being able to do the latter with more consistancy and effectiveness. But is that his fault?


The spurs need to run more and get more easy points off transistion offense instead of always looking to set up plays. This is what gets Jefferson going and plays to his strenghts. He is a great wing finisher and taking advantage of the opportunities to run when they present themselves and get easy baskets is something the spurs need to do more often.

[temujin]

Firstable, Boston is playng good basketball, and I did not unticipate a win by the Spurs at this stage.

Second, the loss came after 5 Ws. The Denver game is way more important, and winnable.

Third, there are many positive signs, mostly Blair and Manu.

So the outlook is not entirely negative.

Having said that, Jefferson looks like a real looser.
He has played for an irrelevent, loosing team for so long, he can't figure out what it's like to go out and win no matter what, night in, night out.

The ridiculous thing is that the press cited the experience of Jefferson with Popovich in Team USA 2004 as evidence of how much Popovich appreciates Jefferson.

Now Team USA 2004 epitomized what a team should NOT be doing, and it is by far the lowest point in Popovich' -and Duncan'- careers.

Jefferson will get his 15 ppg, mostly from the Knicks and Raptors and Clippers games, and then he will vanish in the playoffs.

This guy has no balls.

[urunobili]

lol RJ on Melo next game

[mando6599]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

This.

If Pop would take a chance and bench RJ and start Manu, then RJ could get more minutes against the other team's 2nd unit, thus allowing more touches b/c he'd be the first offensive option.

On the defensive side, he's got to fight through those picks harder and just bring the intensity EVERY night. Pop has always stressed that you get more minutes if you bring it on the defensive side. Then why is RJ out there so many minutes and not producing? Not sure, really.

mando

[NFGIII]

I tend to agree with HarlemHeat37 about RJ so far this season. He needs to get some plays run for him to get invovled. He is an open court/fast break type of player and in the half court seems a little lost. Maybe replacing him with Manu or Mason and bringing him in with the 2nd unit might be what he needs. But one thing is for sure is that he had better bring more intensity when playing D. If anything that is the most disappointing aspect of RJ that I've seen so far.

[peskypesky]

Jefferson totally does not suck. He's just not fitting into the Spurs' system. It happens. And I hate to oversimplify the reasons, but to me the fact that Parker is not a great passer is a problem. With a Kidd, Nash or CP3 feeding him, RJ would not be struggling.

Since we're not going to trade parker, i think we need to think about trading Jefferson.

[Pauleta14]

Jefferson totally does not suck. He's just not fitting into the Spurs' system. It happens. And I hate to oversimplify the reasons, but to me the fact that Parker is not a great passer is a problem. With a Kidd, Nash or CP3 feeding him, RJ would not be struggling.

Since we're not going to trade parker, i think we need to think about trading Jefferson.

I do agree on that point, so let say Jeffesson sucks...... in the spurs system!!!

Concerning Parker, it's getting old man...
I mean, why something that had worked for 8 years with a PG would suddenly fail?
Parker is one of our least pb this year, we all agree on the fact that he is DEFINITELY not at his expected level, but he is not the reason we fail!!!
It's a matter of chemistry and every player knowing what they have to do and what to expect from each other...
Right now it's not the case, that's it!!
We need Parker to be the player he has been all these years, an offensive threat in the paint that break the defensive organisations of opposite teams and open lanes!!!!!
That's the way we won 3 titles!!!!
Why change now???

This is a legitimate thread beacause Jefferson IS the real pb right now!
He is the 2nd best paid player and doesn't show it on the floor...
It's too easy to blame Parker on everything because he is the PG, everybody has a job to do, and even if he isn't scoring or having good "plays"/oportunities, RJ shoud AT LEAST bring some defense!!!:bang

[pjjrfan]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..
Well he could start by not making bonehead plays. He can play a lot better defense, and when he does get the ball he should be more aggressive and look to make a play instead of passing it up and disappearing. I can think of some more things but these seem like things he could possibly do and not have to worry about any playbook.

[The Truth #6]

No one is taking Jefferson from us so we'll probably have to learn to adapt to the current situation. Many of us have been saying RJ needs more time with the second unit. He should still start but get more time with Blair and Manu and Hill, which might open up his game. His wide open playing style seems more suited with the chaotic second unit anyway.

A few other random thoughts:

One of the first plays last night was a pick n roll with RJ and Tim, which ended with a dunk by RJ. I would continue with this sort of approach to see if it helps him get going. The fact that we've basically never tried it until last night is sort of odd.

The first unit pretty much is going to be Tony penetrate, pass to guy in corner, or two-man game with Duncan. The fact that Pop moved Manu to the second unit to free up his game is, I think, perfect foreshadowing for RJ's situation. Manu is a more creative player than RJ but even he took a backseat in the first unit to allow Tony and Tim to set the tempo and style of the offense. When Manu is on the second unit it really allows him to be more assertive. Perhaps the second unit would be a similar situation to when Tim and Tony were out and RJ was forced to step up his game?

If RJ does get more time with Manu on the second unit, then that won't be so bad. We'd have two all stars on both the first and second unit.

The problem comes down to our first unit offense which as others have alluded to is very rigid. Unless we get other players involved in the first team we're probably just going to wear down Tim and Tony, so I think for their own self-preservation they need to try and spread the offense. To whom is the problem. We could put Mason in the starting lineup for Bogans but then our defense struggles.

So, I think not enough "blame", so to speak, is going towards Bogans. Yes, he's playing good defense but his shooting has been absolutely horrible. If he can't hit the wide open 3 then he really hurts our options offensively.

[Pauleta14]

No one is taking Jefferson from us so we'll probably have to learn to adapt to the current situation. Many of us have been saying RJ needs more time with the second unit. He should still start but get more time with Blair and Manu and Hill, which might open up his game. His wide open playing style seems more suited with the chaotic second unit anyway.

A few other random thoughts:

One of the first plays last night was a pick n roll with RJ and Tim, which ended with a dunk by RJ. I would continue with this sort of approach to see if it helps him get going. The fact that we've basically never tried it until last night is sort of odd.

The first unit pretty much is going to be Tony penetrate, pass to guy in corner, or two-man game with Duncan. The fact that Pop moved Manu to the second unit to free up his game is, I think, perfect foreshadowing for RJ's situation. Manu is a more creative player than RJ but even he took a backseat in the first unit to allow Tony and Tim to set the tempo and style of the offense. When Manu is on the second unit it really allows him to be more assertive. Perhaps the second unit would be a similar situation to when Tim and Tony were out and RJ was forced to step up his game?

If RJ does get more time with Manu on the second unit, then that won't be so bad. We'd have two all stars on both the first and second unit.

The problem comes down to our first unit offense which as others have alluded to is very rigid. Unless we get other players involved in the first team we're probably just going to wear down Tim and Tony, so I think for their own self-preservation they need to try and spread the offense. To whom is the problem. We could put Mason in the starting lineup for Bogans but then our defense struggles.

So, I think not enough "blame", so to speak, is going towards Bogans. Yes, he's playing good defense but his shooting has been absolutely horrible. If he can't hit the wide open 3 then he really hurts our options offensively.

This could be a solution...
But the thing is his integration to the team is more about improvisation right now...
We have to find plays where he is constantly efficient and reliable!
The same way WE KNOW where to feed Mc Dyess (who is also a new guy!=no excuses), where he likes getting the ball and is efficient!!
I couldn't tell right know where RJ could be the most productive (exept having the ball a doing it all by himself!)

[murpjf88]

HE STILL SUCKS!!! December 15.

[Ice009]

I really don't want another Hedo situation here.

Is Jefferson actually softer than Hedo. I'm talking about 2004 Hedo. Is RJ softer?

We've really got to figure out what to do with him because I don't want another Hedo like player that scores 2 points a game in the playoffs against your biggest challengers.