Remember some guy named Manu?

[MannyIsGod]

I don't normally like to start threads bitching about one particular facet of the game or a particular decision that may or may not have hurt the Spurs but what the fuck is Pop thinking by not playing Manu Ginobili and by going with Roger Mason instaed????

I am a Roger Mason fan but he's nothing compared to Manu and Manu played very well tonight so I have no idea how he sits on the bench the entire fourth quarter baring a flare up of the injury.

Coming out of the time out in the fourth with Bonner still in the game and Duncan on the bench was also ridiculous.

And before anyone says it, yeah its only early December but that is no excuse to make incredibly stupid decisions by the coach.

[Budkin]

At least Manu was well rested at the end of the game!

[Spurs Brazil]

I don't know what to say. Everybody knew Manu should be in instead of Mason. Only Pop didn't see that, even the stupid R.Miller said that

Instead in the biggest play of the game to cut the lead to 2 the great Mason rush a 3 and that's ball game

Great job Pop, great job Mason

[MB20]

Pop was saving Manu's energy...for those last 10 crucial seconds. lol

[Spursfan092120]

crazy move by Pop...the guy did have a big part in 4 rings though...still, probably not the best move.

[DesignatedT]

terrible coaching. duncan comes in with 4 minutes in the 4th... WTF?

[Mugen]

Pops doing to manu what he did to bowen last year. Its pretty clear that Pop is the problem right now.

[HarlemHeat37]

It was even more messed up because it was Mason's first game back from injury..

[z0sa]

WTF is correct.

[lurker23]

I don't normally like to start threads bitching about one particular facet of the game or a particular decision that may or may not have hurt the Spurs but what the fuck is Pop thinking by not playing Manu Ginobili and by going with Roger Mason instaed????

I am a Roger Mason fan but he's nothing compared to Manu and Manu played very well tonight so I have no idea how he sits on the bench the entire fourth quarter baring a flare up of the injury.

Coming out of the time out in the fourth with Bonner still in the game and Duncan on the bench was also ridiculous.

And before anyone says it, yeah its only early December but that is no excuse to make incredibly stupid decisions by the coach.

I agree with every word of this.

Manu should have been in most of the 4th quarter, especially the last 5 minutes.

Duncan should have come in the same time Garnett did.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

Pop was saving Manu's energy...for those last 10 crucial seconds. lol

at least hes not injured (again)

(sigh...)

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck could have had him in instead of Jefferson if he really wanted Mason in there. I don't understand the choice of going with those 2 at all when Manu had shown he could break down the Boston interior very well.

At some point you just need to play your best players. The whole Manu to the bench thing was one thing, but I'm not a fan of short changing your lineup by giving people like Bogans minutes and by going with "hot" lineups instead of your best players.

[Leetonidas]

There has to be some sort of injury concern with Manu. I don't think Pop would sit his 2nd/3rd best player for Mason for no reason. But Mason continually bricking 3's is annoying as fuck. That last one was brutal, the Spurs had it and he fucked everything up.

[EricB]

Other than Manu coming back from a hamstring injury which if not treated right can last all season.....

[DesignatedT]

WTF is correct.

putting your best 5 players out on the court with the game on the line for starters....

and not playing bonner over duncan when down 10 with 10 minutes left.... unless of course you want to lose... or you dont really care...


Ive said it many times and ill say it again.. this team isnt playing with any heart or fire in them... you really think blair is better than everyone on the court? of course not... he is playing with energy and he WANTS the win.

spurs keep losing because they dont WANT it.

this attitude that we "always" start slow and its okay that we have had a rough start and its going to start clicking is all BULLSHIT.. and it starts with POP...

Pop doesnt even look like he cares anymore... remember the pop of 5 years ago.. shit even 3 years ago... running down the sidelines... getting in peoples faces... thats what we need.

[Spurs Brazil]

Other than Manu coming back from a hamstring injury which if not treated right can last all season.....

Mason was also back from a hamstring injury

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan not playing was also very questionable..

KG was manhandling Bonner inside..Duncan should have definitely been in for those minutes, it would have changed their entire look on offense..

[itzsoweezee]

inexcusable

[Capt Bringdown]

Perhaps Pop was giving someone else a chance because Manu was having one of his patented knuckle-headed games.

After he hit that 3 in the third, he shat out a string of jackass bush-league plays.

[Chomag]

Other than Manu coming back from a hamstring injury which if not treated right can last all season.....

err just like Mason?

[Mugen]

unexcusable

close enough.

[lurker23]

Perhaps Pop was giving someone else a chance because Manu was having one of his patented knuckle-headed games.

After he hit that 3 in the third, he shat out a string of jackass bush-league plays.

While I don't necessarily disagree with you, you're talking about the third quarter. I'll just quote my post from the game blog rather than type it again...


Did Pop forget who Manu Ginobili is? Say what you want about the sporadic tendencies of his game, but historically he's a guy who OWNS 4th quarters.

[sabar]

Sending a message? No idea why else it would happen unless there was some injury concern.

[Spursmania]

Unbelievable! I was at the game and couldn't believe it. We were like where the fuck is Manu and why Mason?:bang

[Capt Bringdown]

Yeah, but Manu's history has little bearing on the player he's become now.

[Marco]

If Pop cannot recover from last year failure, we are f.

[ElNono]

I actually think Pop thought that the Celtics would help inside when Blair was beasting... That's why he went all in with his best 2 three point shooters right now, Bonner and Mason... He bet on that for a long time, up until TD came back in... I really don't know why Manu didn't end the game... other than Pop wanting to see if we still depend on him on the clutch... with the answer being fairly obvious...

[ElNono]

Yeah, but Manu's history has little bearing on the player he's become now.

The last play that Finley screwed up shows you what Manu can create in the clutch.. we've been looking for that clean three look all night...

[ducks]

manu sucked as much as mason tonight
4-12

[BillMc]

I'm getting the sad feeling, more and more, that Manu won't be here next year. I hope I am wrong.

[ducks]

that is why trading him last year was the thing to do



oh and manu had 3 turnovers in 18 minutes

[ElNono]

manu sucked as much as mason tonight
4-12

And so did everybody not named Blair... talking about the clutch... where was your boy Tony?

[itzsoweezee]

manu sucked as much as mason tonight
4-12

go suck a tailpipe

[The Red Hood]

And so did everybody not named Ginobili... talking about the clutch... where was your boy Tony?
Trying and failing to be the hero. Rondo almost always tries to go for the steal.

[ElNono]

Trying and failing to be the hero. Rondo almost always tries to go for the steal.

I mean Blair, BTW... not Manu...
I think Fratello said the Celtics starters outscored the Spurs starters by 20+?

[ducks]

yeah scoring a layup is easier then a long three especially since spurs were ice cold from downtown

[EricB]

20 minute time limit tonight again on Manu and he was at 19. Confirmed in the postgame.

[ducks]

I mean Blair, BTW... not Manu...
I think Fratello said the Celtics starters outscored the Spurs starters by 20+?

yep
jefferson was cold
atleast he took 13 shots

[ElNono]

20 minute time limit tonight again on Manu and he was at 19. Confirmed in the postgame.

Thanks, that's what I suspected.
And congrats on your engagement... :tu

[Marco]

Manu bashing from ducks: what's new?

[ElNono]

yep
jefferson was cold
atleast he took 13 shots

What were Tony stats at halftime?
I have a feeling he actually score the most in the 3rd when Hill went out against the Celtics bench.

[ducks]

20 minute time limit tonight again on Manu and he was at 19. Confirmed in the postgame.

manu should never start with 18 minutes
also just playing the fourth quarter is not good
because if he is off and spurs go to him in the forth they lose

[BillMc]

20 minute time limit tonight again on Manu and he was at 19. Confirmed in the postgame.

Thanks!:toast

[FkLA]

Inexcusable, Im with you on this. I dont usually bitch either but there's no reason to not get upset about this. If Im not mistaken this isnt the first time it has happened either...wasnt Hill in in crunch time earlier in the year for Manu? I think it was against the Thunder? Pop better not make this a regular occurance.

[ElNono]

manu should never start with 18 minutes
also just playing the fourth quarter is not good
because if he is off and spurs go to him in the forth they lose

But when we don't go to him, we win... like tonight, right? Oh, wait...

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/modernmaterialist/2008/07/kitten%20and%20ducks.jpg

[ducks]

K. Bogans G 12:35 0-1 0-0 0-0 -16 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
A. McDyess C 19:39 0-3 0-0 0-0 -14 1 3 0 0 1 0 1 3 0
R. Jefferson F 35:10 3-13 0-4 0-1 -8 0 4 2 2 2 0 1 3 6

that is 3 starters that did not produce


that is one major reason spurs lost
it is amazing spurs almost got lucky to pull it out

[ducks]

But when we don't go to him, we win... like tonight, right? Oh, wait...

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/modernmaterialist/2008/07/kitten%20and%20ducks.jpg

yeah when we do not have have 19 turnovers and 2-14 from downtown
and make free throws

[ElNono]

that is 3 starters that did not produce

that is one major reason spurs lost
it is amazing spurs almost got lucky to pull it out

I wonder why they didn't produce...

And it wasn't luck that we almost pull it out... it was Blair...

[ElNono]

yeah when we do not have have 19 turnovers and 2-14 from downtown
and make free throws

Except for the free throws, everything else you can credit to the Celtics defense. They played harder than us, and defended better. We need more hungry players out there. Including your boy TP and my boy Manu.

[ducks]

What were Tony stats at halftime?
I have a feeling he actually score the most in the 3rd when Hill went out against the Celtics bench.

pop sat him alot in the second the bench was producing
not sure his stats
I think he had 9 at halftime
duncan was 0-5 in the second quarter and did not score a point

[HarlemHeat37]

Tony made a few Js to begin the 4th..he struggled most of the night when Rondo was covering him..he hasn't been good all year..

The entire team sucked tonight though, other than Blair of course..no point of arguing who sucked more..

[cd98]

Right. It's nice to have bench scoring, but our bench should not consistently outscore our top 5.

In my opinion, they should start Hill opposite Parker. Hill is as good a defender as Bogans, plus he can score. Are bench scoring won't suffer as we would still have Ginoboli, Blair, Mason, Bonner, and Finley, a scrappy bunch that can hit jumpshots and impact the game. Bogans can fit in that second unit when they need defense and Finley when they need offense.

[ducks]

spurs have to start trusting each other more
this team is still feeling each other out
spurs did have 18 assist though

[cd98]

Tony hasn't been shooting from th perimeter like last year. I think he is struggling to decide when to shoot, pass, and dribble now that he is on a team that is more talented offensively. I think they all look like they are trying to play unselfish (except Tim who knows he needs to score). They need to be a little more selfish, especially Jefferson, who looks conflicted every time he takes a shot.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill doesn't have the size to defend like Bogans does though, so that won't work..Bogans is our best option at defending on the perimeter since Hairston doesn't get any playing time..

[cd98]

I'd also have to say that I hate the fact that the Spurs win five in a row, then have four days of no games to lose their mojo. The NBA has screwed up their schedule several times by making them wait what seems like an eternity between games.

Celtics had a one day break and kept the flow they had from their winning streak.

Spurs didn't take many steps back though. They made several careless passes, missed 10 free throws, and missed a lot of open shots I see them make. Blair did play a little out of his mind, but I think altogether we held the Celtics to 90 points. We just need to fix the offensive side a little.

[lurker23]

If Manu has a 20 minute time limit, you play him the last 5 minutes of every quarter, with maybe a couple extra minutes saved up for the 4th.

[cd98]

Hill doesn't have the size to defend like Bogans does though, so that won't work..Bogans is our best option at defending on the perimeter since Hairston doesn't get any playing time..

Hill has long arms. I actually think he is a much better perimeter defender than Bogans. Don't forget that the Spurs successfully used Hill on Durrant, who is like 6'9 with long arms and a lethal jump shot. If Hill can guard him, he can guard any two in the league.

[ducks]

If Manu has a 20 minute time limit, you play him the last 5 minutes of every quarter, with maybe a couple extra minutes saved up for the 4th.

why the other 7 minutes matter to
especially when spurs had 4 straight turnovers

[ElNono]

Some things change, but some things stay the same... You need clutch then you need Manu...

[cd98]

In fairness to Pop, the second unit was playing well. Do you take them out if they appear to be playing well? Probably it's the safe bet. Maybe Pop felt that they were playing with the most intensity.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill has long arms. I actually think he is a much better perimeter defender than Bogans. Don't forget that the Spurs successfully used Hill on Durrant, who is like 6'9 with long arms and a lethal jump shot. If Hill can guard him, he can guard any two in the league.

He's too skinny though, he doesn't have the power to guard top wings on a consistent basis..

I agree that he's a better perimeter defender than Bogans in ability, but his size hurts him in that regard..

[ElNono]

In fairness to Pop, the second unit was playing well. Do you take them out if they appear to be playing well? Probably it's the safe bet. Maybe Pop felt that they were playing with the most intensity.

Well, they were playing well mostly against the Celtics bench... The Celtics eventually got their starters back in and closed out the game much like what the Spurs used to do back in the day...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Other than Mason coming back from a hamstring injury which if not treated right can last all season.....

fify, carny....

Go make some cotton candy.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

manu sucked as much as mason tonight
4-12

Yeah, the Frenchman was so fucking clutch tonight!

[MannyIsGod]

I don't care what excuses Tpark can come up with because the bottom line is that when it counted we had Mason intstead of Manu in the game and it hurt the Spurs. Seriously, 20 minute time limit? Thats such an arbitrary pile of shit. If Manu plays 21 minutes he's going to be hurt?

He's either ready to play or he's not ready but using some kind of 20 minute time limit as an excuse is a big pile of shit.

[z0sa]

He's either ready to play or he's not ready but using some kind of 20 minute time limit as an excuse is a big pile of shit.

Truth.

[urunobili]

Pop said on his post-game interview that he was just being careful with Manu...

[SpurNation]

Perhaps Pop is one of those that doesn't believe early December games matter. Even if they have a chance to win one without seriously risking injury to a player.

I can't say (or even see) how these moves were just "tinkering with the line up" to see how things worked. But... oh well. Next up...Denver.

[BatManu]

I am equally perplexed

Manu should have been in the game during that last run, with Mason you know he is just gonna shoot a 3 or pass, but Manu could shoot a 3 or drive to the basket or pass, and he is a good free throw shooter so I don't get it

[ducks]

Yeah, the Frenchman was so fucking clutch tonight!

yeah manu pass to finley for three was so clutch
mike had to step out of bounds to get it

and tp caused duncan to go 0-5 in 2 quarter and 6 turnovers

[ducks]

I am equally perplexed

Manu should have been in the game during that last run, with Mason you know he is just gonna shoot a 3 or pass, but Manu could shoot a 3 or drive to the basket or pass, and he is a good free throw shooter so I don't get it

manu was shotting 33% and 3 turnovers

[Big P]

Finley & Mason over Manu..thats fukn great. The fucked up thing is was is that we had plenty of time being only down by for with about 3 minutes left, theres a time out & I think great Pop will get Manu in now....nope he rolls out his man crush finley & a hobbled mason who do absolutely jack shit.

[EricB]

fify, carny....

Go make some cotton candy.


Class as always...

[DisAsTerBot]

guys, we played about as bad as possible. we still almost pulled it out even though our starters had their heads up their asses all game.

next game.

[ElNono]

yeah manu pass to finley for three was so clutch
mike had to step out of bounds to get it

So it's Manu's fault that Finley stepped out of bounds? Reach much?
Just wow...

[ivanfromwestwood]

some of you guys are really fucked up. if mase hits that three, everyone goes nuts and calls him clutch. do you guys not remember that mason is one of the best 3 pt shooters in the nba?

[Spur|n|Austin]

manu was shotting 33% and 3 turnovers


Why is it always a fucking Tony vs. Manu situation with you?

[duhoh]

guys, we played about as bad as possible. we still almost pulled it out even though our starters had their heads up their asses all game.

next game.

:tu

[sammy]

I don't understand it as well! Manu should be in at crunch time! At least keep Mason in, but Jefferson just plain sucked and he should have been on the bench! We got within 2 points and Pop keeps Jefferson in! I just don't plain understand it! Ridiculous! Opportunity missed!:bang

[TJastal]

Hill doesn't have the size to defend like Bogans does though, so that won't work..Bogans is our best option at defending on the perimeter since Hairston doesn't get any playing time..

Hill showed he could guard 6'10 Kevin Durant. Lacking size my ass.

The kid's got more length than stubby arms Bogans. Not to mention more moxie.

Bogans' defense (or lack thereof) made Ray Allen look 15 years younger out there. Bogans' couldn't stay in front of him, couldn't contest or contain, and couldn't stay with him off screens.

Regardless of whether this was an aberration, I am ALL for seeing Hill take his starting role.

[newacc]

What Manny said and

If you're going to win a championship, it's going to be with Manu - not Roger Mason.

And Pop's gone crazy with his limiting minutes when Duncan checks in with 4 minutes in the fourth quarter. It's like someone is raking a chalkboard in my ears when Bonner is out there getting torched on the block by KG/Rasheed while Duncan watches on the bench because he can't play 33 minutes/game.

December game or not, the Spurs need to start proving to themselves they have elite team potential. If they don't know that they can beat the top teams in the league, they have no shot at the championship. This team is still trying to figure out where they stand and to think they're just going to toss some sprinkle dust in the air come spring and they'll whisk off to another magical championship is unrealistic given declining skills/age.

The one person I'd really like to see up his game is Pop. He's gotten to the point where he's making unorthodox decisions just because he's trying to be different. He needs to settle down and go back to the basics like playing good players in the fourth quarter, not trying to make players something they're not, and playing to players strengths.

4 championships are not, some of his decisions have sucked and it does matter now.

Other notes:

Theo Ratliff needs some more time out there. He makes too much impact with his blocked shot capability to get DNPCDs on a regular basis.

Tony Parker needs to take getting outplayed personally. Right now he's not as sharp as he was a season ago.

I think RJ will produce once he finds his place in the system. The Spurs should try to push the ball more when he's on the floor.

DeJuan Blair is extremely impressive with his soft touch and craftiness around the basket.

Duncan played pretty good against a tough 3 - Perkins, KG, Wallace.

[Höfner]

I remember some guy named Manu in 2007.

[UnWantedTheory]

I don't normally like to start threads bitching about one particular facet of the game or a particular decision that may or may not have hurt the Spurs but what the fuck is Pop thinking by not playing Manu Ginobili and by going with Roger Mason instaed????

I am a Roger Mason fan but he's nothing compared to Manu and Manu played very well tonight so I have no idea how he sits on the bench the entire fourth quarter baring a flare up of the injury.

Coming out of the time out in the fourth with Bonner still in the game and Duncan on the bench was also ridiculous.

And before anyone says it, yeah its only early December but that is no excuse to make incredibly stupid decisions by the coach.

OMG...such a bitcher. Nah bro, you are speaking what most of us were thinking and yelling at our TV screens. I didnt understand it and still dont. We lost,...ah well...Hopefully we take it to the Nuggs tomorrow night.

[austN Spur]

Hill showed he could guard 6'10 Kevin Durant. Lacking size my ass.

The kid's got more length than stubby arms Bogans. Not to mention more moxie.

Regardless of whether this was an aberration, I am ALL for seeing Hill take his starting role.

if you took karate they teach you that strength comes from having long arms. you could have big muscles but ppl with long arms could be just as strong because of torque in the elbow or some crap. hill definately has some long arms. Being in austin we dont get to see tonights game so:flag:

[hater]

Pop is playing for the championship not a meaningless regular season game.

[dbestpro]

Pop is playing for the championship not a meaningless regular season game.

So, when should we expect Pops to stop sandbagging?

[raspsa]

If Pop doesn't play Manu, you can bet he has his reasons. No one can possibly have the insight into his team and other relevant info than he. So people can get frustrated and speculate as much as they want, insult him as much as they want but that isn't going to change a thing. Only Pop knows for sure why he does what he does and I find it interesting how he goes about his coaching.. he may be unpredictable but there is a method to his madness.

[Dex]

So, when should we expect Pops to stop sandbagging?

April? :spam:

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill showed he could guard 6'10 Kevin Durant. Lacking size my ass.

The kid's got more length than stubby arms Bogans. Not to mention more moxie.

Bogans' defense (or lack thereof) made Ray Allen look 15 years younger out there. Bogans' couldn't stay in front of him, couldn't contest or contain, and couldn't stay with him off screens.

Regardless of whether this was an aberration, I am ALL for seeing Hill take his starting role.

Like I said, I'm talking about his strength, not his size..he only weighs like 190..it'll fly against some guys, it won't against most swingmen..it would have worked against Ray Allen, I agree, but it won't work against the bigger swingmen in the NBA..

[emanueldavidginobili]

im sick of people bringing up "oh manu didnt do any better than mason" oh " manu shot 33%" manu is a creator and even though he was off he had like 3 nice passes that set up blair and parker, if he was in there he could have scored or created for someone else, and what kind of bullshit is this when pop took a Timeout and still didnt in timmy.
and the spurs are playing for a ring, not the best regular season record, come playoff time thats when manu will be playing 30-35 minutes ppg

[wildbill2u]

If he wants to rest Manu, Pop should keep him out of the 3rd quarter. He is our best closer when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter.

Still early in the season, and I know he wants to experiment, but beating Boston would have been an energizer for the team, not to mention the fans.

IMO we could have won this one with Manu in the 4th.

[spursfan1000]

Let me ask you this, would you want POP to watch Manu's minutes or would you want Manu to get hurt for half a season?

[pjjrfan]

Tony hasn't been shooting from th perimeter like last year. I think he is struggling to decide when to shoot, pass, and dribble now that he is on a team that is more talented offensively. I think they all look like they are trying to play unselfish (except Tim who knows he needs to score). They need to be a little more selfish, especially Jefferson, who looks conflicted every time he takes a shot.
He looks conflicted every time he touches the ball. That fast break travel was a classic example, got the ball takes two dribbles and wham what do I do next? Travel. The thunder game, is another time he got a good steal, then whamo confusion turnover. From watching McDyess over the years and especially with Detroit, I think he can produce in a big game, we know Manu, Tony, Finley and Duncan can also, Mason has the potential, and Hill hasn't shown that he will fade in a game against a quality opponent. The biggest thing I took from this game is that Blair had an impact in a game against a formidable opponent and on a big stage, TNT. This is one of those statement games and Blair made a statement, give me more time on the floor.

As for Manu, I gotta hope Pop knows what he is doing and his reasons are legit and he is not playing mind games with Manu like he has done with Bruce last season and Rose in the past. As much as I love Pop and respect him as a coach, he does have some anal flaws.

[Chomag]

Let me ask you this, would you want POP to watch Manu's minutes or would you want Manu to get hurt for half a season?

Damn, has it really come to this with Manu where you have to be afraid to even put the guy on the floor? Injurys can happen at any given time.

Maybe we need to call it and keep him out until around the playoffs.Maybe even the whole starting 5. Exaggerated as it may be it is beginning to feel like we recruited players from the senor citizens home where one slight fall can break a hip.

I honestly hope not it's just starting to feel that way with all our starters.

[DPG21920]

Why are people so surprised when Pop limits Manu's minutes? He said he would before the game and despite the fans really wanting a win against Boston, Pop had a plan and stuck to it.

You may be able to argue his plan, but the fact Manu was held out is not that surprising. It is just made worse because it was Boston and the game, which was dominated by Boston the entire time, was close at the end.

Pop very rarely tries to react short-term at the expense of the long-term.

[doobs]

It's early December.

[TJastal]

Manu belongs in the game in the final minutes, this is what the spurs are paying him to do. He's a proven closer with his ability to score himself or draw the foul, and find teammates for open shots.

Roger Mason, Jr should never have the ball at the top of the key initiating the offense by taking tough low% contested shots in the closing minute of the game and down a couple field goals.

Like most shooters he is way more effective as a spot-up catch and shoot player when he is getting fed by a penetrating wing or good ball movement finds him an open look.

[ducks]

spurs are paying him way to much for what manu brings and can play so far this season

[urunobili]

spurs are paying him way to much for what manu brings and can play so far this season

go suck a dick...

[TIMMYD!]

Maybe trading Manu isn't such a bad idea? And maybe we fucked up with RJ. (Don't say chemistry, my newest hated word)

[Johnny RIngo]

Maybe trading Manu isn't such a bad idea? And maybe we fucked up with RJ. (Don't say chemistry, my newest hated word)

We DID fuck up with RJ. Everyone here was excited that we brought in a decent player with a vanilla personality when we should have brought in an explosive scorer.

[TheChillFactor]

manu played like fucking shit tonight.

oh well it's only december......:downspin: