ALL-TIME Team Debate

[remingtonbo2001]

My co-workers and I selected our All-Time teams, with the exception being each player is considered in their prime and no one could choose Jordan.


Paul's Team
STARTERS BENCH
PG-Magic PG-NAsh
SG-Kobe SG-Miller
SF-Pippen SF-Erving
PF-Garnett PF-Brakley
C- Shaq C-Yao

Bo's Team
STARTERS BENCH
PG-Stockton PG-Billups
SG-Manu SG-Bowen
SF-Bird SF-Wilkins
PF-Duncan PF-Oakley
C- Robinson C-Sebonus

Frank's Team
STARTERS BENCH
PG-Pistol Pete PG-AI
SG-Lebron SG-Wade
SF-Carmelo SF-Malone
PF-Dirk PF-Kareem
C- Dwight Howard C-Olajawon

All things considered, individual talent, ability to play aside on another, offense, defense, ect. Which team is the greatest? What about bench play? Consider whole team?

[IronMexican]

Paul's team.

[DBryant88]

+1 Paul

[resistanze]

The third team is out of the running clearly. It's close but Kobe/Shaq with Magic and Pippen and KG is too much.

[sonic21]

are you Bo?

[stretch]

franks is brutally good offensively

bos team makes it pretty clear hes a spurs fan

pauls team is most balanced

[Spursfan092120]

I actually really like Frank's team...Pistol Pete is arguably the best offensive player of all three groups...but defensively, the group as a whole would have had problems..

[21_Blessings]

Paul's team could arguably beat any other All-Time team assembled. Perfect balance of offense, defense and mismatch ability.

Although Shaq's ego would implode and would kill the team first.

[The Gemini Method]

Shaq: "So tell me, Pippen, how my ass taste"

[remingtonbo2001]

I wasn't basing my decision so much on individual talent, but the player's abilities on offense and defense, and how their abilities would maximize other player's abilities. I will agree that Paul's Magic pick is essential, as Magic could post up Stockton all-day long. However, Shaq's in the post, is that really an option?

[stretch]

I will agree that Paul's Magic pick is essential, as Magic could post up Stockton all-day long. However, Shaq's in the post, is that really an option?

and stockton would be blowing past magic every time down the court as well. magics defense was atrocious and there is no way he can guard any really quick PGs. imagine him trying to guard CP3 or TP? it would be just as hard for him to guard them, as it would be for them to guard him. he is a big offensive mismatch but creates a problem with a big defensive mismatch as well.

[ginobili's bald spot]

#1 Paul's team

#2 Frank's team

..

..

..

..

..

..#3 Bo's team

[21_Blessings]

What the fuck is this Frank thinking taking Dirk and Melo?

If was Frank I'd ditch Melo for Barkley and Dirk for Mchale. You get a much needed post presence and become the best rebounding team...ever assembled.

edit: lol Manu

[stretch]

dirk >>> mchale

[ginobili's bald spot]

dirk >>> mchale


I agree. Maybe not 3 >>> but he's definitely better.

[21_Blessings]

dirk >>> mchale

Spell defense for me. Just try.

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk > Mchale

[dirk4mvp]

Spell defense for me. Just try.

He's not the defender Mchale was, but it's not 2003 anymore either.

[21_Blessings]

Dirk is a jump shooting PF with mediocre defense. Mchale's defense is on a whole different stratosphere.

One of the greatest low-post games ever. Elite PF defender with stupid inhuman length.

Seriously, kids these days.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Dirk is a jump shooting PF with mediocre defense. Mchale's defense is on a whole different stratosphere.

One of the greatest low-post games ever. Elite PF defender with stupid inhuman length.

Seriously, kids these days.


And yet somehow as a jump shooting PF he has managed to be a far more efficient offensive player than Frankenstien with his great post game and inhuman length. All while playing with far less talent around him.

[JamStone]

Paul's team and rather easily.

Magic would defend one of the swing players on opposing teams, much as he did in his prime, where Cooper and Scott would take the quicker PGs. Kobe and Pippen in their respective primes could guard the majority of quick guards, and the ones they can't would pretty much have their way regardless of who was guarding them. Aside from Magic, the rest of the team is pretty solid defensively, even Shaq in his prime was an adequate defender at center. Not great by any stretch, but not a liability. And, Pippen, KG, and Kobe are so good defensively, that as a team, they shouldn't have too many problems.

Offensively, that's about as nice as you can get. Shaq dominating down low, an elite perimeter scorer like Kobe, a big man playing next to Shaq who can hit midrange jumpers, Pippen who can is versatile and won't need a lot of touches, and a point guard who distributes the ball well. Only thing lacking is a three point specialist who hits 40%+ from long distance. But, it's a very small critique for that group offensively because how dominating they would figure to be.

It's Paul's team and by a wide margin, imo.

[resistanze]

Dirk + Bird + Parrish...Hmmm...

[21_Blessings]

And yet somehow as a jump shooting PF he has managed to be a far more efficient offensive player than Frankenstien with his great post game and inhuman length. All while playing with far less talent around him.

.47% career shooting vs .55% is more efficient? What math is that?

Seriously have you ever watched Mchale actually play? Put Dirk on the those Celtics team and they are not winning a title in 84/86. Dirk isn't even 1/4th the post defender Kevin Mchale was.

:lol Take your pick Dirk, Hakeem or Sampson. Good luck.

[badfish22]

Pauls team. Franks team will probably be considerd the best in 5 years, once we know how good Lebron and Dwight will be.

[ginobili's bald spot]

.47% career shooting vs .55% is more efficient? What math is that?



Ever hear of 3 pointers? They are worth more points than 2's but you usually shoot a lower percentage. That doesn't equate to less efficiency.


Dirk's PER since 2004

26.1

28.1

27.6

24.6

23.1

26.2




McHale ONE time in his entire career had a PER greater than 22.


Once.

[baseline bum]

Paul's team would easily smoke the other two.

[kamikazi_player]

Well, if we consider the bench now, Bo's team is way behind the other two teams.

[21_Blessings]

Ever hear of 3 pointers? They are worth more points than 2's but you usually shoot a lower percentage. That doesn't equate to less efficiency.

Lower percentage shot. So yes it does equate to less efficiency. Especially in Dirk's case where he wouldn't be utilizing his height advantage to his maximum efficiency.



Dirk's PER since 2004

26.1

28.1

27.6

24.6

23.1

26.2

Per :lol Fucking Per :lol


McHale ONE time in his entire career had a PER greater than 22.


Once.

Weren't you just talking about WINNING as the ultimate statistic in the other thread? Yet here you're reduced to using a horribly flawed PER (which by the way is one of the very worst advanced statistics around especially in the context you're using it in).

You also forgot the other side of the floor.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Lower percentage shot. So yes it does equate to less efficiency.




So you aren't even going to bring facts to the table with your argument? Just emoticons? That's your rebuttal? I already disproved that so you are going to have to do better.

[21_Blessings]

So you aren't even going to bring facts to the table with your argument? Just emoticons? That's your rebuttal? I already disproved that so you are going to have to do better.

You didn't disprove a thing. You're just wrong. So you are going to have to do better.

Mchale put the ball in the basket (known as scoring) more efficiently than Dirk.

Mchale's eFG% .555 Dirk's eFG% .51

Wake me up when Dirk shoots .600 for an entire season.

[Killakobe81]

Paul's team and rather easily.

Magic would defend one of the swing players on opposing teams, much as he did in his prime, where Cooper and Scott would take the quicker PGs. Kobe and Pippen in their respective primes could guard the majority of quick guards, and the ones they can't would pretty much have their way regardless of who was guarding them. Aside from Magic, the rest of the team is pretty solid defensively, even Shaq in his prime was an adequate defender at center. Not great by any stretch, but not a liability. And, Pippen, KG, and Kobe are so good defensively, that as a team, they shouldn't have too many problems.

Offensively, that's about as nice as you can get. Shaq dominating down low, an elite perimeter scorer like Kobe, a big man playing next to Shaq who can hit midrange jumpers, Pippen who can is versatile and won't need a lot of touches, and a point guard who distributes the ball well. Only thing lacking is a three point specialist who hits 40%+ from long distance. But, it's a very small critique for that group offensively because how dominating they would figure to be.

It's Paul's team and by a wide margin, imo.

Agree. Paul's team is almost what I would draft BUT ...I'd probably want Hakeem or Duncan over Shaq at center BUT as Jamstone said SHaq was not horrible on defense either. The assertion that Magic was HORRIBLE on defense is not correct. he sucked 1 on 1 (especially against quick KJ types) but was a good zone and help defender (not great but good) Magic even led the NBA steals one year (but unlike the CP# fans I don't consider that to equal great defense ...
BUT with Kobe and Pippen and Shaq in the lane that would awaesome I would play zone (eleminate shaq in the pnr) and as Ja said put Pipp an dkobe on the quickest players really that is that team's only true weakness is Shaq in pnr and Magic on a quick PG ...

[Killakobe81]

Paul's team and rather easily.

Magic would defend one of the swing players on opposing teams, much as he did in his prime, where Cooper and Scott would take the quicker PGs. Kobe and Pippen in their respective primes could guard the majority of quick guards, and the ones they can't would pretty much have their way regardless of who was guarding them. Aside from Magic, the rest of the team is pretty solid defensively, even Shaq in his prime was an adequate defender at center. Not great by any stretch, but not a liability. And, Pippen, KG, and Kobe are so good defensively, that as a team, they shouldn't have too many problems.

Offensively, that's about as nice as you can get. Shaq dominating down low, an elite perimeter scorer like Kobe, a big man playing next to Shaq who can hit midrange jumpers, Pippen who can is versatile and won't need a lot of touches, and a point guard who distributes the ball well. Only thing lacking is a three point specialist who hits 40%+ from long distance. But, it's a very small critique for that group offensively because how dominating they would figure to be.

It's Paul's team and by a wide margin, imo.

But if you add bench you get worse defensively but you get miller and nash as your 3pt threats ...

[Killakobe81]

When bench is considred Frank's team is pretty damn impressive but I dont like the balance ...that team seems put together to just have the most talent positions be damned ...While Bo's has too little talent considering the choice of players available ...
IF MJ was on the Bo's instead of Bowen I would like it a lot better and they would need MJ to compete with the other two squads ...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If all the players are in their "prime", then Hakeem is the obvious center. In his prime he carried a supporting cast to a championship weaker than any supporting cast MJ had, and he also won DPOY, MVP and finals MVP that season.

[remingtonbo2001]

Well, if we consider the bench now, Bo's team is way behind the other two teams.

Yeah, I'm not sure why I picked up Dominque, should have rather gone with Paul Pierce. I tried finding position players, instead of the best talent. There's only one basketball to go around, so I put a premium on defense. And Sobonis in his prime is ridiculously underrated. Unfortunately, not many people know about his international career, only in the NBA. It would have been amazing to seen Sobonis play in the NBA during his prime to see how he matched up.

[Killakobe81]

My "balanced" aquad would look like this
1. Magic
2. MJ
3. Pippen (Kobe/Lebron are better but Pippen better fit here better at gaurding PG's)
4. Duncan
5. Kareem

Bench
Isiah
Kobe
Bird
KG
Hakeem

My starters with Kareem and Duncan both have 18 foot range one with the hook the other with the bank ...so lane isnt overcrowded. All my guys can post ...3 point shooting would be streaky BUT with that lineup we shouldnt take much 3's and Magic,Pipp and Mj could hit enough to make defense respect them ..

My bench has Isiah, Bird Hakeem and Kobe all 3 great clutch players with KG combining with Hakeem & kobe to provide lockdown defense and erase Bird & isiah's mistakes ...

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, I'm not sure why I picked up Dominque, should have rather gone with Paul Pierce. I tried finding position players, instead of the best talent. There's only one basketball to go around, so I put a premium on defense. And Sobonis in his prime is ridiculously underrated. Unfortunately, not many people know about his international career, only in the NBA. It would have been amazing to seen Sobonis play in the NBA during his prime to see how he matched up.

agree Dsabonis was great overseas but never the defender Hakeem or David was but offensively in Hakeem/Kareem class. Nique was NOT a bad choice you team WOULD NEED the offense ...

[21_Blessings]

Wwwaait a minute. Just because Sabonis dominated some obscure foreign league doesn't mean he was in Hakeem (best post up game ever) and Kareem (sky hook, 38kpts) class offensively.

[mavs>spurs2]

agree Dsabonis was great overseas but never the defender Hakeem or David was but offensively in Hakeem/Kareem class. Nique was NOT a bad choice you team WOULD NEED the offense ...

actually, when he was young he was an elite defender as well. he just never got to show off his skills in the nba until after his massive 7'3 frame had already destroyed his knees and he lost all mobility.

[TheMACHINE]

Manu as a starting SG just killed bo's team.

[Killakobe81]

Wwwaait a minute. Just because Sabonis dominated some obscure foreign league doesn't mean he was in Hakeem (best post up game ever) and Kareem (sky hook, 38kpts) class offensively.
Agree level of comp was weak but he had the skill-set ...i think the DEFENSE is where i would question because when you are 7 ft 3 playing against lesser smaller player of course his defense will appear elite ...

I buy more of him offensively (from what I have seen and read than of him on defense)

Not to be racial but how many truly elite defenders have we had in the NBA that were not "brothers" ? Even today Birdman/Pryzbilla is probably the best vanilla defenders NEITHER are in Hakeem's class ...Offensively Dirk, bird and Nash can sompete with ANYONE class or color but defensively ....

[remingtonbo2001]

agree Dsabonis was great overseas but never the defender Hakeem or David was but offensively in Hakeem/Kareem class. Nique was NOT a bad choice you team WOULD NEED the offense ...

I may have over analyzed my Dominque pick, it wasn't a bad selection. I have offense with Sobonis, Manu, and Dominque. Stockton is capable of hitting the three, not to mention running an effecient offense. David Robinson is a reigning scoring leader, the same season in which he scored 71 points. Tim Duncan is Tim Duncan. However, I still kept defense in mind. As I said earlier, I put a significant premuim on defense, hence Robinson, Duncan, Billups, Bowen, and Oakley selctions.


Manu as a starting SG just killed bo's team.

Agreed, would have prefered Manu coming off the bench, but was afraid Paul would pick him up.

I would prefer Bowen starting in his place, since IMO I have enough offense on the floor. Then bring in Billups and Manu off the bench.

[hitmanyr2k]

Paul's team is great and all but who in the hell would pick Yao over the likes of Hakeem and Robinson...or even Ewing?!?