The official "It's only December" thread.

[Chieflion]

Thought I might get this started. Some people really need this.

DF7MroTLDfU

[spurs1990]

Yup.

The Americans are nowhere near Baghdad.

[TIMMYD!]

It's only December but we still can't make mistakes on easy passes.

[Mal]

...It`s only January...It`s only before all-star break, we`ll make some run in March and finally advance to post season.... Screw that, game is a game, and I don`t care what month it is. Devner, Boston can win in November, December and in April , so why Spurs always tanking early months of season ?

[Spurs Brazil]

I'm tired of this december and chemistry talk. For me that's a bunch of BS

What we need is TP and Manu step up their games.
TP is playing pathetic D the whole year and Manu is a TO machine now.
Bonner can't shot against good team, Hill can't play PG, Mason can't play D, RJ is passive waiting for things happens. Pop rotations are horrible

The only player I see bring it every game is Tim Duncan.

[VBM]

I love this thread already...

[VBM]

The only player I see bring it every game is Tim Duncan.

Problem is, he's the one we want to take it easy during the reg. season...

[ffadicted]

I don't care if it's april or october, anytime you get 38 turn overs in 2 games that is a fucking sad sight.

But yes, at least there's still time to try and fix things

[TD 21]

I'm tired of this december and chemistry talk. For me that's a bunch of BS

What we need is TP and Manu step up their games.
TP is playing pathetic D the whole year and Manu is a TO machine now.
Bonner can't shot against good team, Hill can't play PG, Mason can't play D, RJ is passive waiting for things happens. Pop rotations are horrible

The only player I see bring it every game is Tim Duncan.

You're bang on.

This team has become a joke and the coach has lost his fucking mind these past two years. No player plays 36 minutes despite the fact that they're facing a team better than them. Duncan and Parker carried them throughout and had they played an extra 3-4 minutes the Spurs probably win this game. But who needs a win against a good team (or one period) when you can save 3-4 minutes for your two best players? That will make the difference at the end of the year.

Who gives a fuck how rested any of these guys are if they come in as a 4 or 5 seed (which it's looking like they will be). They will be lucky to win a round in that scenario. For all the areas they've improved, they've regressed in the ones they were good at, so it's all just evened out. They're no better than last year. In fact, they're worse, because as limited as they were, there was a familiarity and a sense of calm in the clutch. Now, that's all gone and they seemingly can't pull out close games.

[Budkin]

This season is nothing like any of us thought it was going to be... depressing.

[alchemist]

Pussies. :wakeup

[024]

spurs need a true point guard. i am jumping on the trade parker bandwagon. the offense isn't gelling because parker doesn't have the skills to coordinate all the spurs' offensive options. also, ginobili for tmac please.

[Mal]

I`d like the old Spurs. Boring, well organised, stonecold, defending, old etc.

Now we have some riders without head, our PG isn`t creating anything and Pop doesn`t give a shit about it. That sucks.

[easy7]

They should save the 19 turnovers for teams like the Nets.... If they cut down on turnovers they can beat almost any team.

[ffadicted]

ginobili for tmac please.

Spurstalk reaches an all time low

[TIMMYD!]

I haven't seen Pop on the sidelines screaming one single time this season.

[Libri]

Spurstalk reaches an all time low

:lol

:depressed

[VBM]

I haven't seen Pop on the sidelines screaming one single time this season.

See thread title...

[narmerguy]

They should save the 19 turnovers for teams like the Nets.... If they cut down on turnovers they can beat almost any team.

That's what every team says.

[024]

Spurstalk reaches an all time low
i'm just melting down like i'm supposed to. i have many other brilliant trade ideas like lowry + tmac + battier for parker+ ginobili.

[Spurs Brazil]

spurs need a true point guard. i am jumping on the trade parker bandwagon. the offense isn't gelling because parker doesn't have the skills to coordinate all the spurs' offensive options. also, ginobili for tmac please.

I don't think we need a true PG, maybe one off the bench that will allow Hill play SG

But I just want TP to play the same great basketball he has been playing the last 4 years, that made him a Top 4 PG.
Now his playing terrible D, his shot is MIA and he's TO a lot. I can't tell a game that TP played well for the 48 minutes. He and all other players besides TD have a lot of up and downs with more downs then ups

[TD 21]

Pop is reluctant to play the so-called "big five" together, likely due to the lack of floor spacing in this lineup. Jefferson and Ginobili have regressed to their earlier years in the league as far as outside shooting and Duncan, Parker and McDyess aren't reliable outside of mid-range. So in effect, Pop is picking 3-point shooting (even though Bonner has never been reliable against good teams) over rebounding, defense and overall interior play down the stretch of games.

I don't give a fuck how bad Jefferson and McDyess look, Pop is essentially bailing them out with this not playing them together with the big three and limiting their minutes (mainly McDyess). The Spurs are paying these two a combined near $20 million and he's relieving them of pressure. He should be piling it on them and seeing what they're made of. Let's find out for a fact that that lineup is ineffective before cutting the cord on it. Every other team in the league has their best five (within' reason, meaning if 3 bigs are amongst your top 5, one of them will have to sit) finishing games and playing significant minutes together, but not the Spurs. No, they know better...they always do, which is why if not for being extremely lucky they arguably wouldn't have a title in going on 5 years.

[Chomag]

When Japan Bombed Pearl Harbor. People cried out "It's only December!!!"

[Chomag]

...It`s only January...It`s only before all-star break, we`ll make some run in March and finally advance to post season.... Screw that, game is a game, and I don`t care what month it is. Devner, Boston can win in November, December and in April , so why Spurs always tanking early months of season ?

Historically Spurs have usually had a good December

[amman]

it seems like Pops lost his intensity . 48MoH talked about finding the correct equilibrium between playing duncan,manu,parker in restricted minutes and winning games.Pop has to play them a couple more minutes in the second half to close out games
I think right now we cant afford to lose these home games, they are far too valuable. How is the team gonna look when we go on the rodeo road trip

look at PTR
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2009/10/26/1100623/2010-san-antonio-spurs-schedule

its sad to see the high hopes for the spurs slowly diminishing
PTR had us at 21-9 at the end of the year...dont think thats gonna happen.


something drastic has to be done either by the FO, pop, or even the players themselves.

I think RJ holds the key to our success. Manu is not playing as himself ,but still definitely can play some ball. RJ just look like a zombie out there.

Really worried about the playoff seed, 50+wins is looking like a long way from here....

just ranting but has to be said :(

[murpjf88]

Its only December. They're saying the same thing new jersey too!!

[ginobili fan]

it's only ugly spurs basketball.

[ffadicted]

Its only December. They're saying the same thing new jersey too!!

I gotta admit I lol'ed :lol

[Chieflion]

Time to revive this thing again, Let the forces of "It is only December" re-emerge again.

[ManuTastic]

It's only December, and it's all fixable.

The past two games we lost to two of the best teams in the league in very tight games, while playing good D and with a lot of intensity. Main problem was stupid turnovers; cut those in half and we'd have won those games. That or hit a few FTs against Boston.
I'm unhappy but I'm not jumping ship. This squad has talent and, finally, some athleticism. They have time to come together and I think they will.

I do want to see better decisions from Manu though. Again, that's fixable. :flag:

[hsxvvd]

Only mediocrity can be trusted to be always at its best.

[LOL@MavsFan]

Its only December. They're saying the same thing new jersey too!!

LOL @ comparing the Nets situation to the Spurs.:lol

I love these threads. Keep em coming. I'll be sure to keep this thread handy when they go on a win streak.:downspin:

[slick'81]

well it is only December lol

[poop]

When Japan Bombed Pear Harbor. People cried out "It's only December!!!"

hahahaha!

[Chieflion]

LOL @ comparing the Nets situation to the Spurs.:lol

I love these threads. Keep em coming. I'll be sure to keep this thread handy when they go on a win streak.:downspin:
First of all, who doesn't go on a win streak, maybe New Jersey and Minnesota. Heck, even the Knicks had a win streak. What is your definition of a win streak?

[pjjrfan]

It is only December!!!!:bang:bang:bang

[murpjf88]

It is only December!!!!:bang:bang:bang

Yeah, But it feels like february. The spurs don't want to tax their starters in the second half to keep them fresh for the post season. If the spurs continue to lose these games in december, they will have to use their starters more just to get into the playoffs.

If thats going to be the case, the spurs have no chance when the post season begins.

This is NOT the same spurs team of seasons past.

[ElNono]

Until January comes around... It's definitely December...

[Chieflion]

Until January comes around... It's definitely December...
Well played. I will start "The official 'It's only January" thread" next month then.

[murpjf88]

Well played. I will start "The official 'It's only January" thread" next month then.

And when it becomes april, posters will be posting, "See ya in october thread."

[tp2021]

Only Spurs fans would compare their team in any way to the Nets

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

There are problems to fix, and there is a long way to go. It is only early December.

[lennyalderette]

They should save the 19 turnovers for teams like the Nets.... If they cut down on turnovers they can beat almost any team.



:downspin: you nailed it, and said it b4 i did

think about it guys, if we even had 5 turnovers less a game we would be undefeated right now!!!!!! lol no but we would be sitting pretty im positive!!!

if we take care of the ball and only allow 8 turnovers a night mark my words we will beat any team, turnovers are making us lose these games guys . we havent lost by much, and everytime we lose we have a shitload of turnovers, its because the good teams capitalize on our t/o and the bad teams cant execute our t/o!!! so if pop just makes sure there are no sloppy passes we will win!! they need to play boring again, i think theyre trying to do so much cause of the new team mates, and tony cant play like that period.

[sabar]

It is only December. I'm glad it is still early because this team has a lot of flaws at the moment and needs time to find themselves. If the team is like this at the end of December, there are some real deep problems with the chemistry.

The only good thing I've taken from our losses is that we aren't getting blown out every night. Plus we played decent D.

A good chunk of the season is gone and there is small reason to panic. "It's only November" didn't mean that the Spurs get a free pass or anything like that, it means that jumping off the cliff before the season is even done is just stupid. It's just as dumb as the Laker fans thinking they were getting 72 wins, and it is just as dumb as the fans that think the Lakers will automatically repeat, before the season even started.

Hindsight is 20/20. Foresight is worth nothing because no one has it. Plus, nothing is going to happen anyways until the trade deadline rolls up.

[Chieflion]

First of all, let me explain what "It's only December" means. It is just like procrastination. Like a kid telling his mom he will do his homework later during the night and then he can't finish it due to the workload.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

First of all, let me explain what "It's only December" means. It is just like procrastination. Like a kid telling his mom he will do his homework later during the night and then he can't finish it due to the workload.

No, that's what it means to you.

What it means to me (and obviously to many others), with regard to the pattern this franchise has gone through over the last decade or so, is that seasons are not won or lost in December as long as there are signs of improvement. Those signs are there. It would've been great to win against either Boston or Denver, but we aren't quite there yet... the fact that they were hard-fought losses tells me this team has vastly improved over 2 weeks ago (when they would've been blown out).

If we have a poor December with such a soft schedule, I'll start to wonder whether this team is going anywhere, but until we get 8 weeks into the season, why stress? The first 20-30 games of any season are shake-out time. Things get serious, and teams start to show their true colours, in January.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

First of all, let me explain what "It's only December" means. It is just like procrastination. Like a kid telling his mom he will do his homework later during the night and then he can't finish it due to the workload.

You mean the Spurs have never had slowish starts and unremarkable early december records prior to winning titles before?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You mean the Spurs have never had slowish starts and unremarkable early december records prior to winning titles before?

I posted about this in another thread, and we had slow starts in two of the 4 championship years (1999 and 2003). From 2004-2007 we started fast every season.

Let's face it, this team is no longer the Big 4 in the prime of their careers, as it was from 2004-7 - it's a jury-rigged, rebuild on the fly roster, and far less predictable than those teams. We just have to hope that they come together as a team, and no amount of bitching or "fire X!" will make that happen. We just have to cross our fingers and be patient.

[Chieflion]

You mean the Spurs have never had slowish starts and unremarkable early december records prior to winning titles before?
According to first 20 games played in our championship seasons, hell no.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

According to first 20 games played in our championship seasons, hell no.

1999 6-8 to start, 31-5 after that.

2003 11-8 to start December.

So actually, you are wrong. Half of our championships have come after poor-average starts, which is what we've had this year, partly due to injury.

[Chieflion]

No, that's what it means to you.

What it means to me (and obviously to many others), with regard to the pattern this franchise has gone through over the last decade or so, is that seasons are not won or lost in December as long as there are signs of improvement. Those signs are there. It would've been great to win against either Boston or Denver, but we aren't quite there yet... the fact that they were hard-fought losses tells me this team has vastly improved over 2 weeks ago (when they would've been blown out).

If we have a poor December with such a soft schedule, I'll start to wonder whether this team is going anywhere, but until we get 8 weeks into the season, why stress? The first 20-30 games of any season are shake-out time. Things get serious, and teams start to show their true colours, in January.
Please, some people wait until the ASB to start panicking. They will come up with more excuses. By then, it is too late. I can live with the defense sucking early on in the season, and it has improved. That is a plus. However, the Spurs are shitting bricks against quality teams and turn the ball over unnecessaarily, throwing the ball more than twice into the stands. That is a thumbs down and shows signs of serious problems. You argue that the have no chemistry when people who played more than one season on the Spurs were the ones throwing the ball away when passing to the franchise, Tim Duncan. Tell me they have chemistry with Duncan. I don't see Dice or Jefferson throwing the ball away unnecessary when passing the ball.

[Chieflion]

1999 6-8 to start, 31-5 after that.

2003 11-8 to start December.

So actually, you are wrong. Half of our championships have come after poor-average starts, which is what we've had this year, partly due to injury.
I said first twenty games, and I am not wrong. We had a 12-8 start in 99. You see the current Spurs finish strong? We had the lead against Denver and choked big time. With the current core, 05/07, the Spurs started strong and ended strong, so I don't see why 99/03 are even necessary in this argument.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Please, some people wait until the ASB to start panicking. They will come up with more excuses. By then, it is too late. I can live with the defense sucking early on in the season, and it has improved. That is a plus. However, the Spurs are shitting bricks against quality teams and turn the ball over unnecessaarily, throwing the ball more than twice into the stands. That is a thumbs down and shows signs of serious problems. You argue that the have no chemistry when people who played more than one season on the Spurs were the ones throwing the ball away when passing to the franchise, Tim Duncan. Tell me they have chemistry with Duncan. I don't see Dice or Jefferson throwing the ball away unnecessary when passing the ball.

What exactly do you attribute the TOs to, if it is not a chemistry issue? Is it the usual "they aren't trying hard enough" cry? Or do you think Pop doesn't make them practice hard enough? :lmao

I've played ball for 20 years and, if you've played any ball, you'd know that it takes a while to get to know the people you are playing with. At the pro level that's a lot more difficult due to the complexity of the game and the excellence of the players. Also, I've seen teams of individually substandard players beat living hell out of teams of far more individually talented players who haven't played together before - that's the value of chemistry.

These growing pains are painful and frustrating, but we are trying to integrate 7 new players into a complex system that no longer revolves around Tim as it once did. It's a difficult process. Please tell me what you'd change if you could.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

According to first 20 games played in our championship seasons, hell no.


I said first twenty games, and I am not wrong. We had a 12-8 start in 99. You see the current Spurs finish strong? We had the lead against Denver and choked big time. With the current core, 05/07, the Spurs started strong and ended strong, so I don't see why 99/03 are even necessary in this argument.

12-8 is an average start, not a fast one, and we are currently 9-8 and could easily be at 12-8 or 12-9 in a few games - in fact, I'm sure we will be either 12-8 or 12-9. You are the one who brought 99/03 into the argument with your post above.

"You see the current Spurs finish strong?" Can you not read? The point I've made all along is that I don't know, the team hasn't been together long enough to judge. There are 65 games to go! And Spurs teams have looked awful at times during past championship seasons. Do you remember mid Jan-mid Feb of 2007? I was in SA and we were horrible at the time. Pop tweaked things and the team came together on the RRT.

[Chieflion]

What exactly do you attribute the TOs to, if it is not a chemistry issue? Is it the usual "they aren't trying hard enough" cry? Or do you think Pop doesn't make them practice hard enough? :lmao

I've played ball for 20 years and, if you've played any ball, you'd know that it takes a while to get to know the people you are playing with. At the pro level that's a lot more difficult due to the complexity of the game and the excellence of the players. Also, I've seen teams of individually substandard players beat living hell out of teams of far more individually talented players who haven't played together before - that's the value of chemistry.

These growing pains are painful and frustrating, but we are trying to integrate 7 new players into a complex system that no longer revolves around Tim as it once did. It's a difficult process. Please tell me what you'd change if you could.
And how complex is the "system"? We have the ever redundant 2 man games between Duncan and Parker and everyone else stands like a statue ready to receive a bailout pass and shoot the 3. Then we have 4 down, where again everyone else shits bricks again and stands around like a statue ready to shoot a 3. Brilliant. No wonder the ball is not going into the basket. The sad part was Tony Parker seeing a fly in the stands and throws the ball to the stands because he shat bricks when trying to make a bailout pass after dribbling the ball for 20 seconds. And the new players are the ones making good cuts to the basket and getting easy layups. Blair makes Mason's life easy when Mason is handling the ball, Dice usually knows where he should be, I don't see him fuck up either. Jefferson is the only one who usually stands around but he is doing some cutting too during motion offense where the Spurs have trouble with because Ginobili is no longer as good as he was. These guys catch passes really good so what is wrong with our big three?

[Chieflion]

12-8 is an average start, not a fast one, and we are currently 9-8 and could easily be at 12-8 or 12-9 in a few games. You are the one who brought 99/03 into the argument with your post above.

"You see the current Spurs finish strong?" Can you not read? The point I've made all along is that I don't know, the team hasn't been together long enough to judge. There are 65 games to go! And Spurs teams have looked awful at times during past championship seasons. Do you remember mid Jan-mid Feb of 2007? I was in SA and we were horrible at the time. Pop tweaked things and the team came together on the RRT.
You know what? This is what I hope happens. Not such suck ass performance like 2009 and it is happening again. It was BG_Spurs_fan who brought up the slow start and an average start is not slow.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

And how complex is the "system"? We have the ever redundant 2 man games between Duncan and Parker and everyone else stands like a statue ready to receive a bailout pass and shoot the 3. Then we have 4 down, where again everyone else shits bricks again and stands around like a statue ready to shoot a 3. Brilliant. No wonder the ball is not going into the basket. The sad part was Tony Parker seeing a fly in the stands and throws the ball to the stands because he shat bricks when trying to make a bailout pass after dribbling the ball for 20 seconds. And the new players are the ones making good cuts to the basket and getting easy layups. Blair makes Mason's life easy when Mason is handling the ball, Dice usually knows where he should be, I don't see him fuck up either. Jefferson is the only one who usually stands around but he is doing some cutting too during motion offense where the Spurs have trouble with because Ginobili is no longer as good as he was.

So, yeah, you're having a good bitch, but what exactly would you change if you could? You'd stop the team turning the ball over? Wouldn't we all. But they have to do that for themselves by getting to know each other. Basketball at any level is a game of precision, and that is what comes with time and chemistry. A basketball team in sync is like a fine Swiss watch - at the moment we're a Casio. :lol

[Chieflion]

So, yeah, you're having a good bitch, but what exactly would you change if you could? You'd stop the team turning the ball over? Wouldn't we all. but they have to do that for themselves.
If I were good enough, I would be Popovich. Apparently, you are not him either so you wouldn't know what to do either. I was just arguing that the system is not as complex now as it was in years' past and compared to the rest of the contenders because you are the one who brought up the system.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If I were good enough, I would be Popovich. Apparently, you are not him either so you wouldn't know what to do either. I was just arguing that the system is not as complex now as it was in years' past and compared to the rest of the contenders because you are the one who brought up the system.

Yeah, but what would you actually change? What are you advocating for? Firing Pop? Trading someone? Whipping the players during 3 a day practices? What?

You're frustrated that we lost two games by choking at the end. So am I. So are the vast majority of Spurs players. I'm just arguing that that doesn't mean the Apocalypse is upon is because it's too early to see whether this team is ultimately going to be any good.

If we go 10-3 from here to the end of December, how will you feel about the team? I reckon they'll go 10-3.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You know what? This is what I hope happens. Not such suck ass performance like 2009 and it is happening again. It was BG_Spurs_fan who brought up the slow start and an average start is not slow.

Except that you're trying to fit your opinion around false data, which makes it even funnier.

A brief look back to early december 2002 would show you that the Spurs were standing at a 9-10 record and playing pretty badly, with much worse problems and less talent ( more like experience ) than this year's team. In 1999 we started with a 6-8 record. Both pretty bad records for a supposed title candidate, not average at all. Average is what we have this year. People who know better don't bitch about the record and see where things need improving. Without a doubt there are lots of things to be done, but to bitch constantly only because we've started with an average record is foolish and something that could only be expected from the new age Spurs fans.

[Chieflion]

Except that you're trying to fit your opinion around false data, which makes it even funnier.

A brief look back to early december 2002 would show you that the Spurs were standing at a 9-10 record and playing pretty badly, with much worse problems and less talent ( more like experience ) than this year's team. In 1999 we started with a 6-8 record. Both pretty bad records for a supposed title candidate, not average at all. Average is what we have this year. People who know better don't bitch about the record and see where things need improving. Without a doubt there are lots of things to be done, but to bitch constantly only because we've started with an average record is foolish and something that could only be expected from the new age Spurs fans.
Record in 20 games is false data? Gotcha. Wait, did we even win in 2002? If I remember, the Lakers spanked everyone and won the title, smart guy.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Record in 20 games is false data? Gotcha. Wait, did we even win in 2002? If I remember, the Lakers spanked everyone and won the title, smart guy.

Dude get your act together if you're going to engage in a proper discussion. We won the title in 2003, which is the season that started in november 2002, thus my reference to our december 2002 record - it's the same season 2002/2003, get it? And if you're so intent on having the record after exactly 20 games, which I don't get why, then it was exactly 10 and 10.

[Chieflion]

Dude get your act together if you're going to engage in a proper discussion. We won the title in 2003, which is the season that started in november 2002, thus my reference to our december 2002 record - it's the same season 2002/2003, get it? And if you're so intent on having the record after exactly 20 games, which I don't get why, then it was exactly 10 and 10.
I was intent on getting the record for 20 games because there were posters who said,

"Oh give the team 20 games, they would get their act by then." Or something like that. With all the offensive firepower unlike 2003, we should not be sucking that much, we are not the Toronto Raptors, we play something resembling defense. I am sorry, I just woke up and did not realise my mistake.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I was intent on getting the record for 20 games because there were posters who said,

"Oh give the team 20 games, they would get their act by then." Or something like that. With all the offensive firepower unlike 2003, we should not be sucking that much, we are not the Toronto Raptors, we play something resembling defense. I am sorry, I just woke up and did not realise my mistake.

Fair enough, no one is saying the Spurs are playing championship level basketball right now, but historically this team has proven to be able to overcome early season issues and come strong at the right time. There is a lot of work to be done and a lot of time - more than 60 games, so the excessive whining is unnecessary.

[Mel_13]

First of all, let me explain what "It's only December" means. It is just like procrastination. Like a kid telling his mom he will do his homework later during the night and then he can't finish it due to the workload.

If we accept this at face value, what changes do you propose to improve the situation?

You say the Spurs are putting off doing some required work. Could you be more specific as to what these required tasks are?

Otherwise, this thread just seems to be an excuse to bash anyone calling for patience.

[Chieflion]

If we accept this at face value, what changes do you propose to improve the situation?

You say the Spurs are putting off doing some required work. Could you be more specific as to what these required tasks are?

Otherwise, this thread just seems to be an excuse to bash anyone calling for patience.
Stop being so sloppy? Yes, this thread is to bash people who just love to make excuses. Ya, only the Spurs are in December now and the rest of the teams came in from another space time fabric. We will 7 players to integrate, I am not buying this excuse. The Mavs have 6 players to integrate. Orlando introduced Vince Carter, Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, a rejuvenated Jason Williams and they also have an unhappy Marcin Gortat to deal with. They also have to deal with the loss of Hedo Turklogu. They also deal with injuries from Nelson and Carter. To say the Spurs situation is unique and very special is another made up excuse by Spurs fans looking for some sympathy.

First it was, "It's only November".-Ok, fine.
Now it is, "It's only December, wait until the end of December."- we will see.

Later we will see, "It is only January, the team will get going by the RRT."

[Mel_13]

Stop being so sloppy? Yes, this thread is to bash people who just love to make excuses. Ya, only the Spurs are in December now and the rest of the teams came in from another space time fabric. We will 7 players to integrate, I am not buying this excuse. The Mavs have 6 players to integrate. Orlando introduced Vince Carter, Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson, a rejuvenated Jason Williams and they also have an unhappy Marcin Gortat to deal with. They also have to deal with the loss of Hedo Turklogu. They also deal with injuries from Nelson and Carter. To say the Spurs situation is unique and very special is another made up excuse by Spurs fans looking for some sympathy.

First it was, "It's only November".-Ok, fine.
Now it is, "It's only December, wait until the end of December."- we will see.

Later we will see, "It is only January, the team will get going by the RRT."

So you're comfortable bashing people who advise patience when you can offer nothing more than "stop being so sloppy"?

OK

[Chieflion]

So you're comfortable bashing people who advise patience when you can offer nothing more than "stop being so sloppy"?

OK
Ya, I know. It's only December. The system is complex. We have 7 players to integrate. Matt Bonner sucks. Finley needs to be traded. Let us start another "Trade 'Fill in blank' for 'Fill in blank'" thread.

Excuses and trying to make a role player a scapegoat, especially Bonner when our stars except for Duncan show up every game. People are not bashing Parker and Ginobili for piss poor play. Parker should be in rhythm the most because he played in the summer and Ginobili is not himself anymore so people are giving him the free pass because he will be back and I hope he will be back.

[admiralsnackbar]

Please, some people wait until the ASB to start panicking. They will come up with more excuses. By then, it is too late. I can live with the defense sucking early on in the season, and it has improved. That is a plus. However, the Spurs are shitting bricks against quality teams and turn the ball over unnecessaarily, throwing the ball more than twice into the stands. That is a thumbs down and shows signs of serious problems. You argue that the have no chemistry when people who played more than one season on the Spurs were the ones throwing the ball away when passing to the franchise, Tim Duncan. Tell me they have chemistry with Duncan. I don't see Dice or Jefferson throwing the ball away unnecessary when passing the ball.

If that's what you're worrying about, have a coke and a smile, man. Turnovers are caused by exactly the sort of growing pains teams have when they gut their rosters. As an extreme example, think of when Manu first came to the team: he dished to the floor seats all the time. Why? Because nobody knew where they were supposed to be for his kinds of passes. The same thing is happening now with the new guys, half due to their unfamiliarity with the system, and half due to their unfamiliarity with each other.

Pop said there were no drills for decreasing turnovers, but I think there is one: playing together and learning where to be to maximize each other's strengths.

[Mel_13]

Ya, I know. It's only December. The system is complex. We have 7 players to integrate. Matt Bonner sucks. Finley needs to be traded. Let us start another "Trade 'Fill in blank' for 'Fill in blank'" thread.

Excuses and trying to make a role player a scapegoat, especially Bonner when our stars except for Duncan show up every game. People are not bashing Parker and Ginobili for piss poor play. Parker should be in rhythm the most because he played in the summer and Ginobili is not himself anymore so people are giving him the free pass because he will be back and I hope he will be back.

I'm still confused as to the point you are trying to make. You've listed a bunch of different excuses that some people make, many of which are mutually exclusive.

Then you list, it seems, some excuses that aren't mentioned but that you think should be (Parker and Manu).

Where are you on this? Is it just that some excuses are worse than others? Is it that you think some players are getting a free pass? (I think there's plenty of Tony bashing going on, btw).

To be clear, I would absolutely agree that bashing a role player for poor play when some of team's best players are underperforming is wrong. It seems to me, however, that the people doing that are a different set of posters from those preaching patience.

So I go back to your "procrastination" post where you provided a definition for this thread and I ask you that provide some details. What are the tasks which the Spurs, collectively and individually, have put off for tomorrow instead of addressing today?

[Chieflion]

I'm still confused as to the point you are trying to make. You've listed a bunch of different excuses that some people make, many of which are mutually exclusive.

Then you list, it seems, some excuses that aren't mentioned but that you think should be (Parker and Manu).

Where are you on this? Is it just that some excuses are worse than others? Is it that you think some players are getting a free pass? (I think there's plenty of Tony bashing going on, btw).

To be clear, I would absolutely agree that bashing a role player for poor play when some of team's best players are underperforming is wrong. It seems to me, however, that the people doing that are a different set of posters from those preaching patience.

So I go back to your "procrastination" post where you provided a definition for this thread and I ask you that provide some details. What are the tasks which the Spurs, collectively and individually, have put off for tomorrow instead of addressing today?
Pop is not playing the guys he was supposed to be playing and makes weird substitutions. He wants the players to gain chemistry, especially in crunch time. He can't do that without playing Dice and getting no plays for Jefferson. Those two players have to be involved if the Spurs have any shot at winning the Larry O'Brien trophy. Those preaching patience do not know even know why they are saying "It's only December." I agree the chemistry is going to come but if the stars are playing like shit, we aren't going to even get past the first round. Our stars are playing like average starters. Yes, I am talking about Parker and Ginobili. They talk about the system and who does the system revolve around? The Big Three currently. If they are not playing to their standards, how are the role players supposed to follow suit.

I am not even calling for firing Pop like some people like to accuse me of, the "system" needs to be revised. And revised does not mean an overhaul.

And on the exclusive excuses, those are jack shit that championship contenders never make. Excuses make the mistakes unresolvable. If the Spurs are championship contenders, all these excuses should never used.

[Xevious]

And how complex is the "system"? We have the ever redundant 2 man games between Duncan and Parker and everyone else stands like a statue ready to receive a bailout pass and shoot the 3. Then we have 4 down, where again everyone else shits bricks again and stands around like a statue ready to shoot a 3. Brilliant. No wonder the ball is not going into the basket. The sad part was Tony Parker seeing a fly in the stands and throws the ball to the stands because he shat bricks when trying to make a bailout pass after dribbling the ball for 20 seconds. And the new players are the ones making good cuts to the basket and getting easy layups. Blair makes Mason's life easy when Mason is handling the ball, Dice usually knows where he should be, I don't see him fuck up either. Jefferson is the only one who usually stands around but he is doing some cutting too during motion offense where the Spurs have trouble with because Ginobili is no longer as good as he was. These guys catch passes really good so what is wrong with our big three?
I'm not giving RJ a free pass for his play, because he's been almost non-existent thus far, but it's frustrating seeing him cut to the basket and not get the pass considering that is his strength and that is exactly what he should be doing. Or seeing Blair set a pick and have an open lane to the basket and not get the pass.

And I'm getting sick of seeing Parker drive, back out, drive, back out, drive, back out, pass, and then some poor guy has to chuck up a contested last second shot. Parker needs to be agressive and attack the rim, that's his game. But if it isn't there, set up the offense and give some time to execute. If people start making shots, then the lane will be there for Tony.

[Mel_13]

Pop is not playing the guys he was supposed to be playing and makes weird substitutions. He wants the players to gain chemistry, especially in crunch time. He can't do that without playing Dice and getting no plays for Jefferson. Those two players have to be involved if the Spurs have any shot at winning the Larry O'Brien trophy. Those preaching patience do not know even know why they are saying "It's only December." I agree the chemistry is going to come but if the stars are playing like shit, we aren't going to even get past the first round. Our stars are playing like average starters. Yes, I am talking about Parker and Ginobili. They talk about the system and who does the system revolve around? The Big Three currently. If they are not playing to their standards, how are the role players supposed to follow suit.

Well, that makes a bit more sense.

I would agree that the team's chances are poor if the stars play like average players. I'm not sure why you seem comfortable with being patient for the chemistry to develop, but you seem less patient for the stars to revert to form. That's really no big deal, I appreciate you trying to clarify your point and, at least this time, I'm not looking to dispute your point only to understand it.

Then there is next question for Spurs fans. What if the stars don't/can't revert to form? What if the key new players don't/can't become useful contributors? The team will have a very rough season. What does a Spurs fan do when that day comes and the Spurs are clearly not a championship contender?

[Chieflion]

I'm not giving RJ a free pass for his play, because he's been almost non-existent thus far, but it's frustrating seeing him cut to the basket and not get the pass considering that is his strength and that is exactly what he should be doing. Or seeing Blair set a pick and have an open lane to the basket and not get the pass.

And I'm getting sick of seeing Parker drive, back out, drive, back out, drive, back out, pass, and then some poor guy has to chuck up a contested last second shot. Parker needs to be agressive and attack the rim, that's his game. But if it isn't there, set up the offense and give some time to execute. If people start making shots, then the lane will be there for Tony.
This is an infinite loop or rather, "Which comes first? The chicken or the egg."
Which one do you think comes first? From what I see, the role players are limited in what they do which is why they are role players and can't create to save their lives (Yes, why are some idiots even criticising that part of their game, I got no idea) and need Parker to step his game up. And I am sick of seeing Parker doing that. Now, he is unable to get to the rim without the help of a pick.

[Chieflion]

Well, that makes a bit more sense.

I would agree that the team's chances are poor if the stars play like average players. I'm not sure why you seem comfortable with being patient for the chemistry to develop, but you seem less patient for the stars to revert to form. That's really no big deal, I appreciate you trying to clarify your point and, at least this time, I'm not looking to dispute your point only to understand it.

Then there is next question for Spurs fans. What if the stars don't/can't revert to form? What if the key new players don't/can't become useful contributors? The team will have a very rough season. What does a Spurs fan do when that day comes and the Spurs are clearly not a championship contender?
Parker played all summer so he should clearly be in rhythm. As for Ginobili, I think he maybe is done. I also think the FO understood that and tried to bring in more firepower in Richard Jefferson.

[Mel_13]

Parker played all summer so he should clearly be in rhythm. As for Ginobili, I think he maybe is done. I also think the FO understood that and tried to bring in more firepower in Richard Jefferson.

Bottom line is clear. If those three don't play better, the Spurs won't be contenders. Which is what prompted the last question in my last post. What say you on that?

For me, Parker's summer and the ankle injury are part of the reason for his less than stellar play.

[Chieflion]

Bottom line is clear. If those three don't play better, the Spurs won't be contenders. Which is what prompted the last question in my last post. What say you on that?

For me, Parker's summer and the ankle injury are part of the reason for his less than stellar play.
It is simple. A team can only go as far as their top players take them. Which is why I usually don't blame role players for losses. If he is an injury, he should just rest it out. I realise he does not want to see his team lose but in the long run, his ankle injury would come back to haunt him for the rest of his career, and his speed made him the player he is. As for Ginobili, I think he is done playing at an all-star level. Jefferson on the other hand, was never an all-star and never went to the All-Star weekend before as he did not want to be there if he is not on the All-Star team, he is brought in to score and is not getting his touches.

If they fail to do so, a re-tooling is necessary. For the idiots at home, re-tooling does not mean rebuilding.

[SpurNation]

This year IS different for several reasons. Age of our key players. Brutal B2B's at the end of the season this year. Acclimation of a roster that features 3 new faces in the starting lineup as well as a rookie and 2nd year player as possible key components coming off the bench.

Factor that along with the annual rodeo trip...Early wins this year are more important than in years past IMO.

To help this happen, I would start Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Jefferson and McDyess until February. Then alterenate the starters during the rodeo road trip only to bring back that starting 5 during the last 2 months of the season for the first games of those B2B's and the games between.

[Mel_13]

It is simple. A team can only go as far as their top players take them. Which is why I usually don't blame role players for losses. If he is an injury, he should just rest it out. I realise he does not want to see his team lose but in the long run, his ankle injury would come back to haunt him for the rest of his career, and his speed made him the player he is. As for Ginobili, I think he is done playing at an all-star level. Jefferson on the other hand, was never an all-star and never went to the All-Star weekend before as he did not want to be there if he is not on the All-Star team, he is brought in to score and is not getting his touches.

If they fail to do so, a re-tooling is necessary. For the idiots at home, re-tooling does not mean rebuilding.

Now you lost me. First a definition. Retooling, to me, means keeping your core and adding to it. That's what they attempted to do this past summer.

If the main problem is found within the group of Tony, Manu, and RJ, how can you retool without breaking up the core? To take it to a further level of detail:

1. The RJ was an unequal or unbalanced trade. The conventional recap of that deal was that the Spurs increased the talent level of the team by accepting a significant increase in payroll. The Bucks saved money by losing talent. Trading RJ's contract now to improve the team would seem to be nearly impossible for the very same reasons. Trading his contract to reduce payroll may become possible, but that would be part of a rebuild rather than a retool.

2. Trading Tony has to net a PG in return. So where are the trade partners that would want Tony enough to send back a decent PG plus another player good enough to improve the team? I don't see it. Now trading Tony to a contender for a package of players with potential may be possible, but again that would be rebuilding rather than retooloing.

3. So we're left with treating Manu as an expiring contract and trying to find another unequal trade where the Spurs improve by assuming increased future payroll expenses. If you assume that Manu can't help the Spurs win any longer, then there would be some possibilities in this area, but no sure things ( Manu for SJax plus filler, for example). There is one big problem with this approach. If things are not going well with the retooling efforts from this past summer, I have serious doubts that ownership would approve even more spending to undergo a midseason retooling.

My best guess is that this is the group that we'll see all season, with the possibility of a minor tweak along the way. Based on how close this group comes to becoming a championship contender will determine whether we see further retooling next summer or the inevitable start of a rebuilding effort.

[Chieflion]

Now you lost me. First a definition. Retooling, to me, means keeping your core and adding to it. That's what they attempted to do this past summer.

If the main problem is found within the group of Tony, Manu, and RJ, how can you retool without breaking up the core? To take it to a further level of detail:

1. The RJ was an unequal or unbalanced trade. The conventional recap of that deal was that the Spurs increased the talent level of the team by accepting a significant increase in payroll. The Bucks saved money by losing talent. Trading RJ's contract now to improve the team would seem to be nearly impossible for the very same reasons. Trading his contract to reduce payroll may become possible, but that would be part of a rebuild rather than a retool.

2. Trading Tony has to net a PG in return. So where are the trade partners that would want Tony enough to send back a decent PG plus another player good enough to improve the team? I don't see it. Now trading Tony to a contender for a package of players with potential may be possible, but again that would be rebuilding rather than retooloing.

3. So we're left with treating Manu as an expiring contract and trying to find another unequal trade where the Spurs improve by assuming increased future payroll expenses. If you assume that Manu can't help the Spurs win any longer, then there would be some possibilities in this area, but no sure things ( Manu for SJax plus filler, for example). There is one big problem with this approach. If things are not going well with the retooling efforts from this past summer, I have serious doubts that ownership would approve even more spending to undergo a midseason retooling.

My best guess is that this is the group that we'll see all season, with the possibility of a minor tweak along the way. Based on how close this group comes to becoming a championship contender will determine whether we see further retooling next summer or the inevitable start of a rebuilding effort.
The expiring role players can be traded for better role players whose contracts expire in 2011/12. This is what I meant. Role players who can score and defend at the same time, which will reduce the load of the team. At the same time, the team needs to shop Manu around. Manu can be had if a clear upgrade is available.

[LOL@MavsFan]

First of all, who doesn't go on a win streak, maybe New Jersey and Minnesota. Heck, even the Knicks had a win streak. What is your definition of a win streak?

6-10 games in a row....is that okay or should I have more or less????:rolleyes

[admiralsnackbar]

The expiring role players can be traded for better role players whose contracts expire in 2011/12. This is what I meant. Role players who can score and defend at the same time, which will reduce the load of the team. At the same time, the team needs to shop Manu around. Manu can be had if a clear upgrade is available.

Why is the assumption always that upgrades are available? Tony's stinking it up lately, but who could we realistically get in return that would actually help the team? Manu is an unknown quantity thanks to his health, which means his trade value would be solely based upon his expiring contract. Given that, when healthy, he plays well above his dollar value, we would stand a high chance of trading for a lesser player.

As for our expiring role players: they all play well above their market value (excepting, perhaps, Mase), making 9/10ths of all realistic trade scenarios redundant or a down-grade. We could dream for a role-player package to get us an a-list player, but the combined salaries of our utility guys still don't add up to much, so again, I have trouble seeing a return on our investment.

[Chieflion]

Why is the assumption always that upgrades are available? Tony's stinking it up lately, but who could we realistically get in return that would actually help the team? Manu is an unknown quantity thanks to his health, which means his trade value would be solely based upon his expiring contract. Given that, when healthy, he plays well above his dollar value, we would stand a high chance of trading for a lesser player.

As for our expiring role players: they all play well above their market value (excepting, perhaps, Mase), making 9/10ths of all realistic trade scenarios redundant or a down-grade. We could dream for a role-player package to get us an a-list player, but the combined salaries of our utility guys still don't add up to much, so again, I have trouble seeing a return on our investment.
Who cares? It is do or die at this point. Aside from Manu's game against Toronto, there are no games you could think of that helps to think that Ginobili can be back at full strength. Looks like he is more injury prone every game. If everything does not work, we are going to be looking at the 2011 FA class which includes the 2007 draft class who did not get an extension. This year will mark the end of the glory days of the San Antonio Spurs if we do not win the championship because Timmy will continue his slow decline.

For the bolded part, yes it is true they are playing above expected levels and Spurs fans are still blaming the loss on them. To be honest, no one likes to hear this, but the Lakers have a better starting line-up than the Spurs so the bench needs to take advantage. I am not looking for any stars at this point, just starters who are willing to play off the bench productively and not lose our firepower. The Spurs have the contract and should do whatever it takes to get us a Mikael Pietrus and Kendrick Perkins type of player if at all possible.

[admiralsnackbar]

Who cares? It is do or die at this point.
:lol
It's not do or die, man -- it's December. Besides, given how injury-prone our big three threatens to be, the idea of depleting the bench at several positions in order to bolster one seems ill-advised. We have most of the tools we need to win a championship (along with some odds and ends that may prove useful if we can figure out how best to use them, like Blair), we just need to stop trying to fix ourselves on paper and get to the business of fixing ourselves on the court.

[Yogurt210]

The injuries are a blessing in disguise. It forces pop to play other players and how to effectively use them.
Let’s bite the bullet now and bare with our team, and enjoy and reap the prize come playoff time. We will be ready.

[JP le Requin]

because its amlost christmas...my girlfriend made a black & silver christmas tree...(sapin de noel in french)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/jpnrc/sapinnoelaspx.jpg

we wanted to share it :-)

[duncan228]

because its amlost christmas...my girlfriend made a black & silver christmas tree...(sapin de noel in french)

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w41/jpnrc/sapinnoelaspx.jpg

we wanted to share it :-)

These would be great on it. :santahat

San Antonio Spurs NBA Candy Cane Ornament Set of 6

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp/candycanes.jpg

$13.95

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LL88KK?ie=UTF8&tag=mytvsead-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B002LL88KK

[portnoy1]

Thought I might get this started. Some people really need this.

DF7MroTLDfU
Its only december then January and february and...... Hey!! what do ya know, its April and RJ still cant stop anybody, Parker still cant see the floor and aw crud Manu's ankle is hurting.

[LOL@MavsFan]

Its only december then January and february and...... Hey!! what do ya know, its April and RJ still cant stop anybody, Parker still cant see the floor and aw crud Manu's ankle is hurting:blah.

:lol You guys are the best...

[LOL@MavsFan]

Who cares? It is do or die at this point. Aside from Manu's game against Toronto, there are no games you could think of that helps to think that Ginobili can be back at full strength. Looks like he is more injury prone every game. If everything does not work, we are going to be looking at the 2011 FA class which includes the 2007 draft class who did not get an extension. This year will mark the end of the glory days of the San Antonio Spurs if we do not win the championship because Timmy will continue his slow decline.

For the bolded part, yes it is true they are playing above expected levels and Spurs fans are still blaming the loss on them. To be honest, no one likes to hear this, but the Lakers have a better starting line-up than the Spurs so the bench needs to take advantage. I am not looking for any stars at this point, just starters who are willing to play off the bench productively and not lose our firepower. The Spurs have the contract and should do whatever it takes to get us a Mikael Pietrus and Kendrick Perkins type of player if at all possible.

He was hurt and tonight will be his 3rd game back after missing a couple weeks and half the NBA season last year and he didn't play at all in the summer. Armchair qbs like you expect too much from this guy right away. Give him a chance. I am guessing you have never injured your knee, ankle before, let alone both. It takes awhile to get back to where you were at before the injury. I messed up my knee before, so I know what he is going through.

[Chieflion]

He was hurt and tonight will be his 3rd game back after missing a couple weeks and half the NBA season last year and he didn't play at all in the summer. Armchair qbs like you expect too much from this guy right away. Give him a chance. I am guessing you have never injured your knee, ankle before, let alone both. It takes awhile to get back to where you were at before the injury. I messed up my knee before, so I know what he is going through.
Let me tell you that Manu Ginobili is never going to be the same. There is no way he can go back to his prime form. His days as an all-star calibre player is done. He could still be a star who can put in explosive games once in a while but he is not going to be the Manu Ginobli we all know. For your information, my knee has been hurting since last year and I can't jump properly now, so don't think my knee ain't fucked up. I am not so sure what it is and doctor said there was nothing wrong but I got no idea why I limp around after I jump.

[Chieflion]

:lol
It's not do or die, man -- it's December. Besides, given how injury-prone our big three threatens to be, the idea of depleting the bench at several positions in order to bolster one seems ill-advised. We have most of the tools we need to win a championship (along with some odds and ends that may prove useful if we can figure out how best to use them, like Blair), we just need to stop trying to fix ourselves on paper and get to the business of fixing ourselves on the court.
This is the kind of people who like to wait until the trade deadline to do something. The best part is that these are the same people that like to talk about chemistry.

[FilSpursFan]

Before "Its November", now "its December", what's next? "Its still January"? Come on, Spurs! Where's your MOJO?

[SKINNYPIMP210]

It's only December... :bang

[Chomag]

Its only December. :deadhorse:deadhorse

[Chieflion]

I am glad to see you guys agree.

[mexicanjunior]

http://www.randomdestination.com/members/mj/pics/pollyanna.JPG

[Höfner]

Is someone arguing that it's not December?

[easy7]

Are we the new NBA Dallas cowboys? :lmao

[magui86770]

Are we the new NBA Dallas cowboys? :lmao

Funny!

[magui86770]

I am a firm believer that its still early in the season but at what point when it's not early anymore. Jan? Rodeo road trip?

[mexicanjunior]

Are we the new NBA Dallas cowboys? :lmao

They are at least over .500 and winning their division...they will probably go 0-4 for the rest of the year though.

[Spursmania]

It's only December:p:

[Chieflion]

As usual, its only December. And the Spurs can't win against quality teams cause it is only December.

[admiralsnackbar]

This is the kind of people who like to wait until the trade deadline to do something. The best part is that these are the same people that like to talk about chemistry.

And this is the kind of people who think trading for another horse will magically solve issues which are team-wide, not player specific.

[Chieflion]

And this is the kind of people who think trading for another horse will magically solve issues which are team-wide, not player specific.
Oh really? You go for upgrades anytime possible and not wait like a sitting duck until the trade deadline. Get the upgrades first, then get the chemistry going. Go ahead and wait until the trade deadline, get one guy the Spurs need and fuck up the chemistry built so well in the middle of the season.

[admiralsnackbar]

Oh really? You go for upgrades anytime possible and not wait like a sitting duck until the trade deadline. Get the upgrades first, then get the chemistry going. Go ahead and wait until the trade deadline, get one guy the Spurs need and fuck up the chemistry built so well in the middle of the season.

I like how you frame the issue as though we have the slightest chance of influencing the FO :lol

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, but it doesn't amount to jack in the end, so there's little point in succumbing to apoplectics, brother.

I also have to ask again: what makes you think your trade targets would be available for our dross?

[Chieflion]

I like how you frame the issue as though we have the slightest chance of influencing the FO :lol

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, but it doesn't amount to jack in the end, so there's little point in succumbing to apoplectics, brother.
Oh really? Fans can influence the front office. See Allen Iverson's return to the 76ers. If that is not a move for Philly fans, I don't know what is.

[Chieflion]

Expirings are particularly valuable because of 2010 (LeBron James, D-Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare, Joe Johnson, Carlos Boozer, Kobe Bryant), and plenty of other star players that a mediocre team would like to acquire in the off season to make their teams better. The Spurs have plenty of small expirings to make a small deal here or there and have a big piece in Manu Ginobili to make a deal, as long as the Spurs are willing to take post 2010 contracts.

[admiralsnackbar]

Expirings are particularly valuable because of 2010 (LeBron James, D-Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare, Joe Johnson, Carlos Boozer, Kobe Bryant), and plenty of other star players that a mediocre team would like to acquire in the off season to make their teams better. The Spurs have plenty of small expirings to make a small deal here or there and have a big piece in Manu Ginobili to make a deal, as long as the Spurs are willing to take post 2010 contracts.

Right, but I already explained why you have less to work with than you seem to think you do.

[Chieflion]

Right, but I already explained why you have less to work with than you seem to think you do.
Expirings the Spurs have: Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, Ian Mahinmi, Malik Hairston, Manu Ginobili, Theo Ratliff, Keith Bogans.

Prospects and picks: DeJuan Blair, George Hill, 2010 1st round pick or 2011 1st round pick
Ya, sure the Spurs have little expirings to work with.

[admiralsnackbar]

Expirings the Spurs have: Matt Bonner, Roger Mason, Michael Finley, Ian Mahinmi, Malik Hairston, Manu Ginobili, Theo Ratliff, Keith Bogans.

Prospects and picks: DeJuan Blair, George Hill, 2010 1st round pick or 2011 1st round pick
Ya, sure the Spurs have little expirings to work with.

You neglect to mention that all the tradeable assets are signed to minuscule contracts (excepting Manu, who I addressed earlier), meaning we'd have to gut the roster to make a trade for the sort of higher-tier player you'd like to bring in work.

And don't kid yourself: Blair and Hill aren't going anywhere -- their price-to-performance ratio is entirely too high. Not to mention that both players handily address holes in the team.

[Chieflion]

You neglect to mention that all the tradeable assets are signed to minuscule contracts (excepting Manu, who I addressed earlier), meaning we'd have to gut the roster to make a trade for the sort of higher-tier player you'd like to bring in work.

And don't kid yourself: Blair and Hill aren't going anywhere -- their price-to-performance ratio is entirely too high. Not to mention that both players handily address holes in the team.
What? Since when did I say we are going to bring in a huge star? Yes, Bonner, Mason and Finley can get you a 10 million player.

Second bold: The same kind of mindset is why Vince Carter is on the Magic now.

[admiralsnackbar]

What? Since when did I say we are going to bring in a huge star?

No need for hyperbole: I said higher-tier player, like Pietrus, or others you've mentioned. They may not command franchise salaries, but they sure as hell make more than a bundle of vet min-, lowballed role-player-, and rookie-contracts.

[Chieflion]

No need for hyperbole: I said higher-tier player, like Pietrus, or others you've mentioned. They may not command franchise salaries, but they sure as hell make more than a bundle of vet min-, lowballed role-player-, and rookie-contracts.
Low balled role player? Bonner, Mason and Finley are low balled role players? The only reason we are losing now is because the stars are playing sub-standard basketball, but I digress. Go on. Amuse me. For your information, Pietrus is earning MLE type money and is not as good a player you think he is. To other teams, they are just expiring contracts whom they will gladly take to dump bad contracts.

One extra thing, there is still time to make changes, because it is only December. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[admiralsnackbar]

Low balled role player? Bonner, Mason and Finley are low balled role players? The only reason we are losing now is because the stars are playing sub-standard basketball, but I digress. Go on. Amuse me. For your information, Pietrus is earning MLE type money and is not as good a player you think he is. To other teams, they are just expiring contracts whom they will gladly take to dump bad contracts.

Amuse you? :lol I didn't even bring up Pietrus as a trade target, wise-ass: you did.

Go on believing you can rally the FO to fix this team with your circular, illogical horseshit and astonishing fantasy basketball acumen. I'll just watch and see how the season unfolds. Best of luck on the campaign, Chief.

[Chieflion]

Amuse you? :lol I didn't even bring up Pietrus as a trade target, wise-ass: you did.

Go on believing you can rally the FO to fix this team with your circular, illogical horseshit and astonishing fantasy basketball acumen. I'll just watch and see how the season unfolds. Best of luck on the campaign, Chief.
You are the one who brought up Pietrus again. Not me. He is just one of the players I think would be great for this team. Get it straight. Then again, it is only December, and we have plenty of time to argue about it.

Then again, I am going off topic here and I am just going to talk about December again. Thanks for directing me off-topic. It is only December, so you can't celebrate Christmas.

Better still, it is only December and circular, illogical horseshitting is expected. I will get better in February.

It is only December, no wonder the economy is sucking. It will get better in February.

[SpurNation]

It's not what we think that's important. It's the attitude of the team. Right now after watching these last few games against some of the top teams and losing...I can see it in the players that they think it's important to win now. Their body language doesn't suggest anything different.

Hopefully they don't give way to doubt or disention and renew a faith in each other and themselves that they CAN and WILL.

[TheManFromAcme]

Still early. I would speculate that if the Spurs play solid from here on end AND come out of the Rodeo road trip with some real good solid wins, they'll be there. I am not saying the midnight hour is upon the Spurs but by February they'll need to get their act together. This gelling experiment can't go on forever guys. This can't wait unitl March or April. Jan and Feb is realistic.

Just my opinion.

[Chieflion]

It's not what we think that's important. It's the attitude of the team. Right now after watching these last few games against some of the top teams and losing...I can see it in the players that they think it's important to win now. Their body language doesn't suggest anything different.

Hopefully they don't give way to doubt or disention and renew a faith in each other and themselves that they CAN and WILL.
I can see they were frustrated with their mistakes, their body language shows that. But they have to keep in check of their emotions and not let the heat of the moment get to them. When mistakes arrive, you live with it and not live in the past and rack up more of the same mistakes. Basically, the more frustrated someone gets, the more mistakes they make, which was what I saw from Tony. Duncan kept his cool. Bonner showed he had some swagger. Parker and Ginobili are the two players I am worried about most right now.

[z0sa]

I can understand people saying the Spurs want to win now, so there's no real grounds behind saying "it's only December..."

Teams with a sudden influx of new faces/talent are never made in December. If this is working out the kinks, so be it. I'd rather face team adversity in 2009 than May 2010.

And, the 04 team was 9-9 at this point. Did you fuckers say the same shit back then? It's not like the Spurs had some incredible fusion of talent and we're the favorites by far. Lakers were then just the same as now, and the same talent questions were being raised.

[Chieflion]

I can understand people saying the Spurs want to win now, so there's no real grounds behind saying "it's only December..."

Teams with a sudden influx of new faces/talent are never made in December. If this is working out the kinks, so be it. I'd rather face team adversity in 2009 than May 2010.

And, the 04 team was 9-9 at this point. Did you fuckers say the same shit back then? It's not like the Spurs had some incredible fusion of talent and we're the favorites by far. Lakers were then just the same as now, and the same talent questions were being raised.
I just want to ask something, do you even see progress in anything at all? We seem to be playing worse and worse each game.

[z0sa]

I just want to ask something, do you even see progress in anything at all? We seem to be playing worse and worse each game.

It's hard - nigh impossible, even - to truly make an analysis of our weaknesses and progression when our main guys haven't been healthy for most of the season thus far. I attribute this to the no-shows of RJ; if you recall or look back at the boxes, his best games were when one of Tony or Manu (or both) were out. RJ must find his niche with the other guys healthy and active. That's why "It's only December."

Manu is still recovering from the offseason, besides his usual myriad tweaks, which all of us knew would increase as he aged due to his playing style. We need a good stretch of health for the big 4+Bonner/Dyess/Mason/Blair, at least 15 games or so, before one may predict this team's aspirations - title or otherwise (and if otherwise, the FO can then make a wise decision on trades - the day they trade Manu will be a big one in Spurs history books). While I'm not sure if it will yield the type of results we might want, I think we're at the start of just such a stretch of health, so fingers are crossed.

[Chieflion]

It's hard - nigh impossible, even - to truly make an analysis of our weaknesses and progression when our main guys haven't been healthy for most of the season thus far. I attribute this to the no-shows of RJ; if you recall or look back at the boxes, his best games were when one of Tony or Manu (or both) were out. RJ must find his niche with the other guys healthy and active. That's why "It's only December."

Manu is still recovering from the offseason, besides his usual myriad tweaks, which all of us knew would increase as he aged due to his playing style. We need a good stretch of health for the big 4+Bonner/Dyess/Mason/Blair, at least 15 games or so, before one may predict this team's aspirations - title or otherwise (and if otherwise, the FO can then make a wise decision on trades - the day they trade Manu will be a big one in Spurs history books). While I'm not sure if it will yield the type of results we might want, I think we're at the start of just such a stretch of health, so fingers are crossed.
Well, again, the no shows of RJ came from not getting the ball. When he got the ball in the 3rd quarter, you saw some good things happen. Players made nice cuts to the basket and Jefferson gets it there which means he is at least an average playmaker and not a black hole. My only complaint is that he never sees the ball in the 4th quarter, if that is the case, I rather have Finley bail us out on his three point attempts. Otherwise, he has been productive when he gets the ball. Dice is one of my concerns. He played like 15 minutes, yes I know Bonner was hot but Dice was not playing much. Mason has been a big joke this season and Finley is better than him at this point. I hope Manu is still just recovering because his injury concerns may be reaching T-Mac levels, it has been one injury after another and I hope he is ok. I know he is down with that but a onfident Ginobili will help us out in the long run. I am scratching my head with Tony's play. He still scores at a high clip but whenever he is on the court, it is him and Duncan and no one else, and his turnover issues and limited court vision (for a PG) gets very clear especially when the defense presses him.

[TJastal]

I got a chuckle out of the admiralsnackbar vs Chieflion debate. :lol

[Chieflion]

I got a chuckle out of the admiralsnackbar vs Chieflion debate. :lol
Well, it is only December and I was just having fun. December or not, the standings don't give a shit. I am sure the players and coaching staff treat every game seriously.

[z0sa]

Well, again, the no shows of RJ came from not getting the ball. When he got the ball in the 3rd quarter, you saw some good things happen. Players made nice cuts to the basket and Jefferson gets it there which means he is at least an average playmaker and not a black hole. My only complaint is that he never sees the ball in the 4th quarter, if that is the case, I rather have Finley bail us out on his three point attempts. Otherwise, he has been productive when he gets the ball. Dice is one of my concerns. He played like 15 minutes, yes I know Bonner was hot but Dice was not playing much. Mason has been a big joke this season and Finley is better than him at this point. I hope Manu is still just recovering because his injury concerns may be reaching T-Mac levels, it has been one injury after another and I hope he is ok. I know he is down with that but a onfident Ginobili will help us out in the long run. I am scratching my head with Tony's play. He still scores at a high clip but whenever he is on the court, it is him and Duncan and no one else, and his turnover issues and limited court vision (for a PG) gets very clear especially when the defense presses him.


I agree with basically everything, except Mason. I think Mason has the ability to play well consistently and hit some big shots for us. I like his improving defense and he's definitely worked on his offensive game, especially passing in traffic. I feel he's twice the player Finley is at this point.

I do want to touch on RJ as well, not to disagree, but again: he must find his niche with the Big 3 active and healthy. If that niche ends up being spot up shooter most often, it is true something must be done. I personally feel we are misusing him, like you said, by calling few plays for him. He made good shit happen in the post last night, including a nice pass from under the basket to the top of the arch for a wide open Bonner 3pter. I hope Pop is seeing RJ must have plays called for him, but I also have a sneaking feeling the reason Pop isn't calling more plays period is so he can gauge just how hard his touch on Parker's reins must be.

[bdictjames]

64 more games. It's a long season, not a sprint, its a marathon.

[Chieflion]

I agree with basically everything, except Mason. I think Mason has the ability to play well consistently and hit some big shots for us. I like his improving defense and he's definitely worked on his offensive game, especially passing in traffic. I feel he's twice the player Finley is at this point.

I do want to touch on RJ as well, not to disagree, but again: he must find his niche with the Big 3 active and healthy. If that niche ends up being spot up shooter most often, it is true something must be done. I personally feel we are misusing him, like you said, by calling few plays for him. He made good shit happen in the post last night, including a nice pass from under the basket to the top of the arch for a wide open Bonner 3pter. I hope Pop is seeing RJ must have plays called for him, but I also have a sneaking feeling the reason Pop isn't calling more plays period is so he can gauge just how hard his touch on Parker's reins must be.
It has to be tight sooner or later. Parker is a scoring PG, not a passing one. He is not really that good at seeing the floor. Let him make all the decisions on the court, we can have three stand-still humanoids playing who can hit the three at the 40% clip and Tim Duncan. This is how I feel the Spurs play when Parker gets into the two man game with Tim. Although it is effective, the rest of the players would feel left out of the game and eventually drift away from it. I hope Pop sees it cause this strategy has been beaten like a dead horse, sure it works, but for how long.

Mason is a good player, the high pick with Mason should be set more often for his pick and pop threes. He has a good connection with Blair (well, everyone apparently can get the ball to Blair and get good results), and although I am not particularly happy with his defense and three point shot this season, he can only get better, I hope. No backup PG bullshit.

I would like to bring up Keith Bogans. We know he is not a very good offensive threat. Defensively, he is not bad, quite decent and plays physical, problem is, he is not really seeing the floor other than the 1st few minutes of the game.

[TJastal]

Bogans got yanked early for some reason by Pop, the game was just minutes old. Not sure what that was about. Ended up with only 9 minutes played.

Not that I'm complaining (I don't think Bogans should be starting) BUT... Utah is one of those "physical" teams that beat you to death and Deron Williams exemplifies this: he's a short, stocky, physical guard that Bogans' bulldog defense can be effective against. I would have thought if anything we could have used Bogans' defense against Williams, and Mason's offensive production against the nuggets... Mason got 3 minutes in that game, 20+ against the jazz.

Pop just doesn't seem to understand how to utilize all this talent he has at his disposal, and I see that as a core problem right now.

[Chieflion]

Just getting her warmed up.
I was about to bump my favorite thread.

[Creation88]

fuck "only" theory, this team needs to win now. and they're no were close to the mentality of a champion right now.

[NRHector]

fuck "only" theory, this team needs to win now. and they're no were close to the mentality of a champion right now.I feel bad for Mr. Holt :(

[ItsOnlyDecember]

oh hai everyone! :clap

[mexicanjunior]

oh hai everyone! :clap

I can't wait for "It's Only January" to show up...

[murpjf88]

I feel bad for Mr. Holt :(

I don't feel bad for anyone responsible for bringing RJ here

[JustinJDW]

It's only December guys. Chill.

[Chieflion]

Come on, guys, it is only December. A loss to the short-handed Blazers is ok.

[HarlemHeat37]

Especially this time of December..all the guys are obviously distracted with Christmas season and all, it makes sense for them to have lost..

[benefactor]

...and now it's about to be May, with a Spurs team that is playing together and a six game dismissal of the Mavs.

I guess it was only December after all.

[ElNono]

...and now it's about to be May, with a Spurs team that is playing together and a six game dismissal of the Mavs.

I guess it was only December after all.

Somebody send a memo to Bonner... he's still stuck in December... :lol

[timtonymanu]

Somebody send a memo to Bonner... he's still stuck in December... :lol

Mason's still stuck in last year's playoffs.

[ElNono]

Mason's still stuck in last year's playoffs.

He should be wearing a straightjacket and buried in the bench...