What does the team need to do to play better?..

[HarlemHeat37]

Let's have a civilized discussion here..

No extremes on both ends please..no "Spurs aren't going to make the playoffs", "it's only December", "chemistry", cliff jumping..

Let's take about the actual play on the court, and ignore the record..I don't care about the last 2 losses, because they were both against top 5 teams and came down to the wire..that shouldn't be used to judge the team in a good way or a bad way..

-Duncan is clearly still playing at an elite big man level..his offense is beautiful right now, and his D is still great, as he's shown over the past month..he's still very capable of being the best player on a top team(obviously health is an issue, but that's always the case)..

-We have around 20 million$ in expiring contracts..there's still plenty of time to make a move, unless ownership just doesn't believe this team can compete anymore..

-This current roster isn't going to win a title, even if chemistry is developed..IMO at least..

-The 2nd big next to Duncan is still a glaring need..McDyess and Blair are great complimentary big men off the bench, but we still need another guy to help Timmy out on a consistent basis..Bonner is shooting 35% from the field against the other West playoff teams + Boston so far, not good..

This is a lot easier said than done, but we have the $..finding a guy that fits the role well is going to be tough to acquire, but waiting for Splitter is not a good move IMO, it's not even guarantee that he joins the team..

-Athleticism is still heavily lacking on the perimeter..this is why it upset me to have Hairston sent down..he's a cheap option on a team that desperately needs some athletes..

-Parker is nowhere near the guy we saw last year..all the hype in the off-season, all the talk about how he's our new leader..his scoring looks better than earlier, but his D is horrible, he's turning it over too much, and he needs to pass better..he really needs to clean shit up..we need him to be our #1 scorer..

-Sad to say, but Manu's contract is now more valuable than he is as a player IMO..he's still better than most players when it comes to basketball IQ, but the body can't respond as well anymore..

-Playcalling has been very poor IMO..we only have 2 guys on the team that can create plays for their teammates, Duncan and Manu..Pop needs to play to this..Pop is a great Xs and Os guy, so it surprises me that he isn't using this ability of his..Jefferson still isn't getting looks that play to his style of play..this team is just too sloppy right now, and the style of play is a significant reason why IMO..

-Defense has been great for the last month, around top 5 in the NBA in that span IIRC..

-This team clearly has a lot of depth, which is obviously a good thing..

These are obviously just my opinions..what do you guys think the team needs to do to play better?..what kind of major/minor trades could this team make?..is the roster good enough to win a title or even make it to the WCF?..

[TD 21]

The 2nd big next to Duncan is still a glaring need..McDyess and Blair are great complimentary big men off the bench, but we still need another guy to help Timmy out on a consistent basis..Bonner is shooting 35% from the field against the other West playoff teams + Boston so far, not good..

These are obviously just my opinions..what do you guys think the team needs to do to play better?..what kind of major/minor trades could this team make?..is the roster good enough to win a title or even make it to the WCF?..

In all honesty, as hard as it is to admit, I have a hard time seeing this team beating the Lakers or the Nuggets. I still think they're good enough to beat the rest of the West (Mavs, Suns, Trail Blazers, Jazz, etc.).

You're right about the lack of a 2nd big man. Considering who they could get and the fact that they're more than likely not looking to take back salary for after this season (due to Splitter's likely 2010 arrival), Camby is probably the best option. He's long, blocks shots, rebounds, is an adequate mid-range shooter/passer and is on an expiring contract.

I wouldn't mind Bell, but he's older and I wouldn't give up too much for him. Clearly, the starting lineup lacks outside shooting and the team still isn't long or athletic enough. Overall talent and depth wise, they have enough to win a championship, just not quite the right pieces. It's potentially salvageable with a Camby acquisition and then with Splitter coming over next year. That covers the Spurs length wise for the remainder of the Duncan-era.

[exstatic]

Stop turning the ball over.

[HarlemHeat37]

The turnovers are a product of the bad play calling and overall style right now IMO..

[Xevious]

Stop turning the ball over.
This.

The Spurs were fine in the first half. Then Denver starting playing a little physical and the Spurs stopped executing and starting playing just like they did against Boston.

I'm not so much concerned about the big man situation because people aren't running layup drills on us like they were at the start of the season. Our D has been pretty good, we're rebounding well. We just need to play consistently for 48 minutes.

[ffadicted]

Stop turning the ball over.

we'd be 11 - 6 if not for this, which is a good record for a team with around 50% of the roster as new players.

This team IS good

[HarlemHeat37]

We would also be 17-0 if we scored more points than all the opponents we've played so far..that's a cop-out..

A lot of these turnovers are coming from lack of playmaking ability from some of our guys and the opposing team's pressure on our defense..

[Johnny RIngo]

This.

The Spurs were fine in the first half. Then Denver starting playing a little physical and the Spurs stopped executing and starting playing just like they did against Boston.


Boston and Utah frustrated us with their physical play too. This is probably one of the softest Spurs teams we've had in while.

[CP48107]

I still believe this is a good team. They are capable of beating any teams while struggling when playing playoff contender.

They can try to trade for McGrady or Okfor, but they need time to adjust to spurs philosophy just like Jefferson.

With that being said. I am still proud of my Spurs and will stay as a loyal fan. I do feel sad for Duncan and Pop. In my mind, they deserve another championship or even a back-to-back championship. That seems like a long shot now.

[exstatic]

Hats off to GKarl for his halftime adjustment. The Spurs should have recognized it. We used it to finally slay the Stockton/Malone/Utah dragon.

On the PnR, you have both the little and the big do a soft double, forcing the ballhandler over to the side where he has less visability of the court. As an offense, you NEVER have the ballhandler pass out of it. Because it's a soft double, the big can effectively be a part of the double AND disrupt passing lanes back to the pick setter. That's what Denver did tonight. The only antidote is for the ballhandler to attack the double team, and either split it, or at least force the hard double that will allow the clean pass out.

[DPG21920]

Spurs are 5th in the league in TO's per game. That is not exactly terrible.

[The Truth #6]

The lack of playmaking from Parker and Hill is problematic. It would ok if it was just one of them, but both creates a problem. In addition, Manu is erratic right now. Mason is one of the few players who has improved his playmaking, which is great considering how bad it was last year, but we shouldn't be relying on a spot up shooter to make plays for us.

Dice - he seems lost to me and is going thru the motions. Yes, he's a veteran and is a great character guy, but I don't see a player burning to win a title.

Bonner - he's improved but still completely mechanical in the way he plays defense, sets picks and goes through the motions of much of the game. Good teams will cover his open shots better and hence they aren't going in. He's adopted the Oberto tap out which is better than nothing but he doesn't give me confidence for a big game.

Blair - he's showing inconsistency of a young player. This is to be expected but we need everything he can give us. Pop is warming up to him. Unfortunately, I take that more as desperation than turning a new leaf.

Manu - I don't think he's over the hill or anything like that. He can still be productive but I don't think even he knows what he's still capable of at this point. He's been sloppy on one play and then the next he makes a good pass that goes off a teammate's face because they weren't looking for it. He's out of control right now and needs to focus on making simple plays, but that might not be his game.

Jefferson - everyone wants to blame him for our problems but that's a cop out. No he isn't saving us, but the team's problems didn't start with him. He's actually improved on D and the team is slowly actually trying to get him involved. The people pissed at him probably never saw him play before. In the 2004 Olympics it was clear - he's a hustle guy, a great athlete, but not someone with fundamental basketball skills. He's like a running back playing basketball. Just hand him the ball when he's going full speed and see what happens. I think that approach is what the team should take. Instead we're coming up with complicated plays that intellectualize the game for him. I don't think he's an intellectual player like Manu or Tim.

Parker - Is he still injured? Hard to say. What concerns me is less the results and more the effort. It seems as if he's going through the motions right now. He seemed more motivated in years past. His jumpshot is not as good as it was last year. Not sure how that happened.

Pop - I think he's actually coaching fairly well right now. He knows he has to adapt but he's been so rigid for so long because he could, I think he, like the team, is struggling to make sense of the identity of this team.

[androck]

Hats off to GKarl for his halftime adjustment. The Spurs should have recognized it. We used it to finally slay the Stockton/Malone/Utah dragon.

On the PnR, you have both the little and the big do a soft double, forcing the ballhandler over to the side where he has less visability of the court. As an offense, you NEVER have the ballhandler pass out of it. Because it's a soft double, the big can effectively be a part of the double AND disrupt passing lanes back to the pick setter. That's what Denver did tonight. The only antidote is for the ballhandler to attack the double team, and either split it, or at least force the hard double that will allow the clean pass out.

What an insightful, well-developed, coherent point. Are you sure you're on the right forum?

[exstatic]

Spurs are 5th in the league in TO's per game. That is not exactly terrible.

They cough it up like a repeating hairball against good teams, though.

[MaNu4Tres]

Let's have a civilized discussion here..

No extremes on both ends please..no "Spurs aren't going to make the playoffs", "it's only December", "chemistry", cliff jumping..

Let's take about the actual play on the court, and ignore the record..I don't care about the last 2 losses, because they were both against top 5 teams and came down to the wire..that shouldn't be used to judge the team in a good way or a bad way..

-Duncan is clearly still playing at an elite big man level..his offense is beautiful right now, and his D is still great, as he's shown over the past month..he's still very capable of being the best player on a top team(obviously health is an issue, but that's always the case)..

-We have around 20 million$ in expiring contracts..there's still plenty of time to make a move, unless ownership just doesn't believe this team can compete anymore..

-This current roster isn't going to win a title, even if chemistry is developed..IMO at least..

-The 2nd big next to Duncan is still a glaring need..McDyess and Blair are great complimentary big men off the bench, but we still need another guy to help Timmy out on a consistent basis..Bonner is shooting 35% from the field against the other West playoff teams + Boston so far, not good..

This is a lot easier said than done, but we have the $..finding a guy that fits the role well is going to be tough to acquire, but waiting for Splitter is not a good move IMO, it's not even guarantee that he joins the team..

-Athleticism is still heavily lacking on the perimeter..this is why it upset me to have Hairston sent down..he's a cheap option on a team that desperately needs some athletes..

-Parker is nowhere near the guy we saw last year..all the hype in the off-season, all the talk about how he's our new leader..his scoring looks better than earlier, but his D is horrible, he's turning it over too much, and he needs to pass better..he really needs to clean shit up..we need him to be our #1 scorer..

-Sad to say, but Manu's contract is now more valuable than he is as a player IMO..he's still better than most players when it comes to basketball IQ, but the body can't respond as well anymore..

-Playcalling has been very poor IMO..we only have 2 guys on the team that can create plays for their teammates, Duncan and Manu..Pop needs to play to this..Pop is a great Xs and Os guy, so it surprises me that he isn't using this ability of his..Jefferson still isn't getting looks that play to his style of play..this team is just too sloppy right now, and the style of play is a significant reason why IMO..

-Defense has been great for the last month, around top 5 in the NBA in that span IIRC..

-This team clearly has a lot of depth, which is obviously a good thing..

These are obviously just my opinions..what do you guys think the team needs to do to play better?..what kind of major/minor trades could this team make?..is the roster good enough to win a title or even make it to the WCF?..

Agree with pretty much everyting. I bolded the parts I agree with most.

Manu won't ever be the Manu of 2005 again. That's the only way I see this team having a chance against the top teams in the league.

Manu has been hurt for pretty much the past 2 years and all signs are indicating nothing will really change. You can see the frustration in his eyes game to game on how dissapointed he is on his play. He is not the same. He can't create the seperation from the defenders like he used to, therefore the holes in the defense aren't as big to knife to the basket or make a pass to a teammate. My biased opinion will say its only December, but in all honesty we've been seeing this inconsistent play of his since he got hurt in the Phoenix series in 2008. It's sad to see him struggle and he will always be a Spur in my eyes, but sometimes its time to move on and if I'm the Spurs FO, I'd be looking at what kind of offers are out there for him. No I'm not jumping off the cliff or anything like that. It's just the smart business move to make. If the season ended today I guarantee you a team would offer Manu a contract the Spurs would not match. In that case you mine as well get talent back to show for him.

- I remember reading somewhere that Parker did absolutely nothing basketball related til he reported to the French National Team. When in previous seasons he spent his entire summer working on his game. This pretty much makes sense with his sloppy play. He's not finishing like he used to, he doesn't have explosion or mid-range, and his defense has been pitiful.

In order for the Spurs to have a chance with this current roster everyone of the big four has to be clicking on all cylinders. Right now only 1 is....

[lefty]

Hope that Bonner pulls an Oden

[androck]

They cough it up like a repeating hairball against good teams, though.

TOs during 5-game win streak:
Sixers - 17
Rockets - 14
Warriors - 14
Bucks - 16
Wizards - 8

In 2007 we averaged 13.9 TOs per game. We're turning the ball over too much period in the last 6 games.

[Chomag]

I agree with many things being said here so no need for Me to keep repeating whats already been said. However Spurs owe TD at least one more championship run and must do all that it takes to achieve that . If that means making some moves that might break hearts then it must be. Although sad, it's the business side of things. There is a time where we must move on.

[Otaku]

Time

[murpjf88]

The turnovers are a product of the bad play calling and overall style right now IMO..

play calling doesn't turn the ball over. players turn the ball over.

[HarlemHeat37]

play calling doesn't turn the ball over. players turn the ball over.

when players are put in the wrong positions and have to make plays they aren't accustomed to, you'll see missed FGs and turnovers..we're seeing a lot of this..

your post is obviously RJ related, as usual..I think you're his ex-fiancee TBH, you seem to have an unhealthy hatred for the guy for no reason..

[AFBlue]

Reducing turnovers is a function of players knowing eachother and knowing the system.

The solution (and answer to OPs question) is time on the court together...simple as that.

Spurs aren't going to solve their chemistry issues by making trades and continuing to add new pieces to their team. This is the team that will take them to the playoffs and this is the team with enough talent to contend for a title.

[murpjf88]

We would also be 17-0 if we scored more points than all the opponents we've played so far..that's a cop-out..

A lot of these turnovers are coming from lack of playmaking ability from some of our guys and the opposing team's pressure on our defense..

Did you use a calculator to figure that out,

[duhoh]

when players are put in the wrong positions and have to make plays they aren't accustomed to, you'll see missed FGs and turnovers..we're seeing a lot of this..

your post is obviously RJ related, as usual..I think you're his ex-fiancee TBH, you seem to have an unhealthy hatred for the guy for no reason..

:king :lmao

won and done!

[murpjf88]

Reducing turnovers is a function of players knowing eachother and knowing the system.

The solution (and answer to OPs question) is time on the court together...simple as that.

Spurs aren't going to solve their chemistry issues by making trades and continuing to add new pieces to their team. This is the team that will take them to the playoffs and this is the team with enough talent to contend for a title.

Thats only half true, tony and manu are constantly having the ball slapped out of their hands when they drive to the hoop. Tim duncan has the ball slapped out of his hands as well. TD, TP and Manu have been on the court together for 6+ years. By now, they should of figured that out.

Quite making this all about new player acquisitions. Their just plain sloppy.

[AFBlue]

Thats only half true, tony and manu are constantly having the ball slapped out of their hands when they drive to the hoop. Tim duncan has the ball slapped out of his hands as well. TD, TP and Manu have been on the court together for 6+ years. By now, they should of figured that out.

Quite making this all about new player acquisitions. Their just plain sloppy.

The trio have ALWAYS been subject to being stripped. When you drive in the lane it happens.

What I'm talking about are the verbal and non-verbal miscues that lead to bad passes. What I'm talking about are the no-looks to no one because a certain person isn't where they're supposed to be on offense. It is FAR more rampant this year than in past years and it has everything to do with the lack of court time shared by these players.

[DesignatedT]

sit bonner.

[androck]

sit bonner.

You mean the guy who led the team in rebounds while just playing 23 minutes? No, I don't think that's the answer.

[Blackjack]

Overall talent and depth wise, they have enough to win a championship, just not quite the right pieces.

This is pretty much what I've been alluding to.

Bottom line, the Spurs' Championship formula has consisted of:

A dominant Tim.

A cold-blooded Manu.

The explosive outbursts/performances of Tony at different stages.

One of the best perimeter defenders ever in Bowen.

And a cast of role-players that brought timely shooting and veteran savvy.

As a team overall, they were one of the top 3 defensive teams each year, (lead the league in defensive rebounding) they were among the league-leaders in point-differential, and they were arguably the best executing team in the league both offensively and defensively; the intelligence was really second to none.

The Spurs are getting a dominant Tim as of right now, but he was talked about as a top 3 candidate for MVP at the mid-point of the year last year.

Manu has yet to regain his form or show that his explosiveness is still there, and given his age and injuries, you've got to wonder if he can even sustain the type of level the Spurs need if he should eventually achieve it.

Tony, for whatever reason, has been a shell of the player he was last year. He's never going to be the quintessential floor-general, but his play-making should be significantly better than it's been. Where's the guy who was looking Wade-esque at times last year?

Bruce Bowen and his defense is gone; replaced by a superior offensive talent that does not excel in the offense Bruce once occupied. Not only have you lost the defense, but you've lost the spacing and continuity of a proven, intricate offense. I've never liked the the fit of RJ on this team but if there's a way to make it work, Tony Parker holds the key.

As for the cast of role players, you've lost the Championship fabric of years past. Fin shouldn't be playing long enough to factor in his shot-making and of the newcomers, 'Dyess is the only one that somewhat fits the bill; could Bogans really play with the poise of a Bowen on both ends; could Blair, as a rookie, be the Malik of '03; Could Bonner somehow morph the clutchness of Horry, the marksmanship of Kerr, and the irritability of Ferry; Is George Hill capable of combining a formula of Claxton and Ginobili from '03; does Roger Mason have the game to excel in the playoffs the way Jaren and Stephen Jackson did offensively?

The defensive play has picked up considerably and has shown some signs for hope, but it hasn't foreshadowed an impending dominance that could mask the shortcomings I see..

The resumes do tell you this team has plenty of talent, but resumes are about what you've done, not necessarily what you'll do.

A guy like Camby would be a step in the right direction and the supposed interest in Bell seems warranted given the reliability of Bogans' shot; I've said from the beginning this team was going to have to make a move or two to shore up one or both of their needs defensively at the 5 and swing position, and I stand by it..

It's easy to get caught up in what your team is and isn't doing well on a night-in night-out basis and what they can and should improve on, but I look to if they honestly have what it takes to beat the likes of a Lakers if both teams are playing near their best..

I just can't see it as this team is currently constructed.

[DesignatedT]

You mean the guy who led the team in rebounds while just playing 23 minutes? No, I don't think that's the answer.

get real man. im not one to blame the whole team struggles on bonner, and i believe that we can and will still make a hard push into the playoffs, but if you really believe we can win a championship against LA BOS CLEV ORL with soft ass bonner playing 30+ minutes.... then i feel sorry for you...

we cant and wont win it all with him playing those minutes... his defense is almost as worse as masons and when he isnt hitting the 3 ball he is totally useless.

[oligarchy]

h-S90Uch2as

[TheSpursFNRule]

My question is if a decent/good offer for Manu came up by the deadline(which it may) would the spurs stay loyal to Manu or trade him?

[murpjf88]

My question is if a decent/good offer for Manu came up by the deadline(which it may) would the spurs stay loyal to Manu or trade him?

You saw what happened last year when manu went down, they're not letting him go this year.

[DJB]

One word. Communicate.

This team is having a hell of a time trusting and playing with each other. It's as simple as that.

[androck]

get real man. im not one to blame the whole team struggles on bonner, and i believe that we can and will still make a hard push into the playoffs, but if you really believe we can win a championship against LA BOS CLEV ORL with soft ass bonner playing 30+ minutes.... then i feel sorry for you...

we cant and wont win it all with him playing those minutes... his defense is almost as worse as masons and when he isnt hitting the 3 ball he is totally useless.

I don't know what fantasy land you're living in but Matt Bonner played almost 24 MPG last year and is averaging under 21 MPG this year. I don't think anyone is calling for him to get as many minutes as Tim, Tony, and Manu.

I don't see how you can say "when he isnt hitting the 3 ball he is totally useless". That was obviously not the case tonight since he was 1/6 from the field but led the team in rebounds.

I personally don't think this team can beat any of the teams you've mentioned unless Manu finds a time machine but it's definitely not because of Bonner.

[elbamba]

1. Put Blair in the starting lineup. I want to see him play with Tim Duncan, plus unlike bigs in the past, Blair can actually catch TP's bad passes.
2. Insert Mason into the starting lineup and limit Bogans, I just don't think he is playing very well. He had a couple of good games, but he has been disappointing in my opinion.
3. DIce, Bonner, Manu, Hill and Finley (when he comes back) need to be the second unit and Hill also needs some playing time with Parker. I would like to see Hill get 30+ minutes a game.
4. We need to let Jefferson shoot more. I know he has been sucking, but his best games came when we ran offense through him. He is not Bowen in that we can expect him to not touch the ball and then hit a couple of key corner threes. This guys is a scorer who gets 5-9 shots a night. He needs more like 12-14 if you ask me. Lets see if he can produce and open the floor for everyone else. I would rather lose games now and get him more integrated in the offense.

[ffadicted]

This is probably one of the softest Spurs teams we've had in while.

Disagreed completely

[toki9]

Spurs are 5th in the league in TO's per game. That is not exactly terrible.

But they are last in the league in opponent TO. Spurs have the 3rd worst TO differential at +2.06. (Memphis, Phoenix, San Antonio, Portland and Sacramento are the bottom 5. Milwaukee, Boston, Dallas, Golden State, and Atlanta are the top 5, with Lakers coming in at 6).

I think Phoenix minimizes the turnover issue because they shoot very high % (#1 in the league) and have a lot of assists (#4).

[Spursfan 87]

How about playing your 5 best players together, in other words START MANU. He's the only guy who gets others involve, this may help RJ and Antonio.

Our bench is good enough without Manu.

[toki9]

It also seems like that the team lacks energy and emotion. In a way it looks like as if the players are over-thinking out there and are hesitant to act. Many of the passes don't look crisp, and the players don't seem to come and meet the passes. In short, the team looks very slightly confused out there and are thinking through the action--which may give off the appearance of lacking energy/emotion, etc.

Another issue is that I think Pop uses the first half of the season to gather data more than anything else. I think as long as we're not losing too much, Pop uses the game situations to observe how different matchups work, combinations work, etc.--even to the detriment of winning individual games. I think he's been this way for years now, but he's gotten worse about it. It's as if he treats the pre-season as camp (to evaluate fringe/practice players), then the pre-all-star portion of the season as preseason, and then post-all-star portion as the regular season. It's probably fine given the roster's age and composition, but for the fans it's pretty maddening...

[sabar]

OP nails it on the head, it is a combination of many problems.

The first thing we need to do is get this sloppy play recently under control. You CANNOT win a championship, let alone a playoff series playing out-of-control ball.

Trades are not the proper way to go unless the deal is obviously in our favor. Adding more new pieces will sacrifice this season to compete in the next. This just isn't the kind of team where you can add a piece and be contenders. There's too much new blood.

Another factor that is related to the turnovers is the huge imbalance in scoring potential and play-making potential. This team is way too stacking is scoring talent and too many people need shots. Both of our PGs are shoot-first and this compounds the issue. Only Duncan and Manu can really sacrifice their shooting to make plays, and one of those guys is looking like a shell of his former self.

[Thompson]

Remember how Pop said he was going to give the offensive reins to Parker? Should he take them back (and draw up some plays for RJ)?

[HarlemHeat37]

Well it's not working, so something needs to change..

I don't know if it's the new practice regimen where the times changed, I don't know if it's because Parker and Hill have taken control of the plays..something needs to change, the offense is sloppy and ugly right now..

I find it hard to believe that the FO acquired Jefferson without looking into it with a thorough evaluation..they surely couldn't have acquired him with the intention of having him become Finley 2.0..

[toki9]

Is Tony having a Tiger issue of his own or something? He just doesn't seem very focused this year...

[all_heart]

There are all the obvious reasons like stop turning over the ball. But a big reason is because RJ is not playing well and I don't think it's really his fault. It has to do with the Spurs system and I say that because there are a number of players who get traded to teams and start playing well from the start. Look at Vince Carter.. I don't know if it's a lack of structure or too much details that need to be learned as I recall Dice's comments about the Spurs being the most detailed team he's ever been on. I know it's the same system that has won titles but Pop tearing out pages of the play book doesn't seem to be helping so far. I don't know it's frustrating...

[all_heart]

Remember how Pop said he was going to give the offensive reins to Parker? Should he take them back (and draw up some plays for RJ)?

This could be part of it, TP is a scoring PG, maybe orchestrating an offense isn't his strongest quality.

[kbrury]

Idk where to start when evaluating the team, but they are not going to win a championship this year, next year I hope will present a much better chance. Even with a trade this year I don't see it happening. At this point in the season its still to early but there are too many questions and problems with the team.

I see a few ways of going with the team, One stand pat and work things out basically. There are problems with every single position and court chemistry is pretty poor so I think it will still be a long ways until we see consistent improvements. Next year the team should look a lot better assuming we do keep a healthy(I hope) Manu and obtain Splitter.

You could make a trade later into the season but then we would have a new player along with whether or not we have fixed some of the issues. Though I don't think we could trade for anyone with enough skill or talent to push us to the top this year.

Or the least likely option trade some players for the future...maybe Manu but won't happen. Try and get young talent or a higher first round pick. Basically get a Duncanesque prospect(in talent) to our Duncan who will be able to maybe in a few years send off Timmy with a last championship much like Robinson, assuming TD does not retire.

We will stand pat for the foreseeable future though, and I hope to god Pop has already realized that the offense needs to be reworked. The personnel we have now just doesn't fit with our past ways of doing things as Blackjack said, and it must be tough considering how long it has worked. The worst thing right now for the spurs is that Duncan is playing so well and we continue night in and night out relying on him.

Reworking the offense is the first step, lessen the load on Duncan, see what can be done to restore Parker, and move more of the load onto RJ with design plays or whatever.

[024]

i hate to say it, but i really do think parker is the problem. the spurs are have more talent and offense than ever but it's just not fitting together. spurs need to bring in a point guard with the court vision and passing skills to control the offense. i would say parker's passing ability is worse than ginobili and duncan's. his assists mainly comes from his drive and kicks. he lacks the creative playmaking other elite point guards possess.

like how andre miller screwed with the blazers, parker is screwing with the spurs. parker needs the ball in his hands to be effective. he has no 3 pt shot and his spot up shooting is shaky. once parker gives up the basketball, the threat is removed and the spurs lose one player on offense. in the past parker could get away with this because the spurs didn't have any other offensive options outside the big 3 but it's different now. now when parker has the ball, jefferson is useless unless he is lucky enough to get a drive and kick. when jefferson or ginobili has the ball, parker is no threat.

too bad the spurs will never consider trading parker so the spurs need to find some other way to work through this. a less dramatic solution would be to trade george hill for a good passing back up point guard. someone like kyle lowry or jarret jack. with so many offensive options spurs can't afford to have two shoot first point guards on the team. they lack glue and ginobili's passing isn't good enough, they need another passing point guard.

[spurspokesman]

The turnovers are a product of the bad play calling and overall style right now IMO..
Heat its a worthless issue. Read my let's be real thread. I suggested we have no true center to guard the paint like the ship years and these geniuses up here said they sucked. News flash "we won with them and they did well enough". I also wanted camby for ages.

[spurspokesman]

i hate to say it, but i really do think parker is the problem. the spurs are have more talent and offense than ever but it's just not fitting together. spurs need to bring in a point guard with the court vision and passing skills to control the offense. i would say parker's passing ability is worse than ginobili and duncan's. his assists mainly comes from his drive and kicks. he lacks the creative playmaking other elite point guards possess.

like how andre miller screwed with the blazers, parker is screwing with the spurs. parker needs the ball in his hands to be effective. he has no 3 pt shot and his spot up shooting is shaky. once parker gives up the basketball, the threat is removed and the spurs lose one player on offense. in the past parker could get away with this because the spurs didn't have any other offensive options outside the big 3 but it's different now. now when parker has the ball, jefferson is useless unless he is lucky enough to get a drive and kick. when jefferson or ginobili has the ball, parker is no threat.

too bad the spurs will never consider trading parker so the spurs need to find some other way to work through this. a less dramatic solution would be to trade george hill for a good passing back up point guard. someone like kyle lowry or jarret jack. with so many offensive options spurs can't afford to have two shoot first point guards on the team. they lack glue and ginobili's passing isn't good enough, they need another passing point guard.
Only an honest person would agree

[raspsa]

Reducing turnovers is a function of players knowing eachother and knowing the system.

The solution (and answer to OPs question) is time on the court together...simple as that.

Spurs aren't going to solve their chemistry issues by making trades and continuing to add new pieces to their team. This is the team that will take them to the playoffs and this is the team with enough talent to contend for a title.

Exactly right.

[TJastal]

My major gripe right now

Bogans is not starting material. The offense is bogging down with him in there and I don't think he can effectively defend the top tier guards in the league. He is no Bruce Bowen. He shouldn't even be on the roster, his spot should have been given to the guy who earned it, Malik Hairston.

In his place:

Spurs need someone to help create offense in the 1st unit. Whether this is Manu or Mason, Jr doesn't matter. Personally I favor Roger.

I haven't watched the entire game yet, but I've browsed the box score and I see Roger got a whole 3 minutes of action. He's been playing well, I don't get this. Against a high octane offense like Denver he should be playing 30 minutes. This reminds me of the bulls' loss... Pop played the shit out of all his aging veterans all game long and wonders why one of the most young, athletic teams in the league won out in the end. Duh, play your young guys idiot! Mahinmi, Hairston, Blair, Hill.... all got little or no court time that game.

[ploto]

Poor execution is the main culprit.

[Mal]

Jefferson is not a problem. Last year Spurs played Finley at SF, so Jefferson with or without getting involved on offense is a progress.

Problem is Parker`s mentality. He is playing selfish. He`s playing alone or only with Manu and TD. He isn`t involving anyother player on the floor. He is ballhogging.

Whole offens is static, which makes good teams easy to double team Duncan and cut off penetration. With 33 % for beyond the arc, this team can`t create layups for Tony, Manu, Jefferson or physical plays for Duncan. Most turnovers are made on double teams and help defense. This makes stupid passes or lost balls. Whole offens system must be changed.

What more. Spurs 2007 and earlier had Bowen waiting in corner and he was deadly for there. He involve defender, who can`t give him open look.. Oberto was setting tons of picks. Parker, Gino and Duncan, had space and many one on one plays. Now we have Jefferson , who is slasher not shooter. His defender can let him outside and help with defending penetrations and Duncan. Dice is static. He isn`t making jump shoots and setting picks. It isn`t strange that offens is better with active Blair then Dice.

sorry for my english

[Spurs Brazil]

-Parker is nowhere near the guy we saw last year..all the hype in the off-season, all the talk about how he's our new leader..his scoring looks better than earlier, but his D is horrible, he's turning it over too much, and he needs to pass better..he really needs to clean shit up..we need him to be our #1 scorer..

For me TP is the key. So far his J is MIA, his defense is terrible and I don't know if it's because his play with NT or injury he can't play well for 48 minutes.

I don't see TP playing this bad since 2005.

But I think sooner or later we'll see the great Tony back and then it'll open things for others; Dice will get more opens shots and RJ may have more space to do his things.

[temujin]

when players are put in the wrong positions and have to make plays they aren't accustomed to, you'll see missed FGs and turnovers..we're seeing a lot of this..

your post is obviously RJ related, as usual..I think you're his ex-fiancee TBH, you seem to have an unhealthy hatred for the guy for no reason..

I am asking you this again.

Are you Jefferson's agent?

The Bucks are much better off without this guy.
He is making an unrealistic amount of money.
Carmelo just KILLED him last night.
Daddy vs the kindergarden kid.
He would KILL him anytime, night in, night out.
If Jefferson makes 14 Millions ($, but still), then Carmelo should be making 150 millions.
This Jefferson guy is good for the Clippers.
We all noticed him smiling on the bench in the Boston game, while Boston was up by 11-15 in the 3rd.
Unacceptable. Never seen a Spur do that in long time.

As for the rest.

-Duncan is playing unrealistically well. Spurs would be 4-13 without him. Started off slowly, but that's because he did a lot of swimming in the summer, and it takes about two months to get the fast fibers back in shape after swimming a lot (I can tell you that). However, his minutes are going up fast and if he goes on like this, he will be done by March, exactly like last year.

-Parker has been playing continuously from July. Except for a couple of injuries. He will certainly won't get any better than he was against Denver. yes the defense is horrible. So what are you going to do bench one of the few scorers?

-Ginobili. He is still the most intelligent player on the team. I honestly don't know whether he can be more reactive than what we have seen, it might be possible. As for the uture, he has made it VERY clear that he would not play for a looser, that he'd rather go back to Europe.

-McDyess. A smiling version of Kurt Thomas.

-Bogans. So far, he has exceeded the wildest expectations. On a good team -say the Lakers, Denver or Celtics- he would play garbage time minutes. On the current Spurs, he is starting and playing >20'. Enough said.

the subs.

-Finley. A non smiling, older version of 2008 Finley. In some games (Utah, Portland) he seemed ready for Sunday mornings pick up games. Amazingly, he is out the starting five.

-Blair. The only player that looks like a Spur of old. Small, makes mistakes, but a beast; best addition in years.

-Mason. Played a couple of good games. Following the path of Udoka. Expendable.

-Bonner. Good with the terrible teams -sometimes VERY good- bad with the good teams. Overall, he is getting some more rebounds, but don't count on the guy in big games. He is also Clippers material, overall.

-Hill. The Spurs could win titles with Claxton, Udrih and Vaughn as back-up point guards. So he is certainly an upgrade. The problem is that he is NOT a point guard at all. You are born a point guard, you just don't become one. Incidentally, Ty Lawson, the guy that ran circles around Parker last night, was acquired by Denver from stupid Minnesota for a future draft pick.

-Ratcliff. Yes, they are actually paying this guy. Maybe he is telling very funny jokes in the lockeroom. Although he has shown to be totally lost on the irrationally complicated offense, he could still be used.

-Haislips, Mahinmi. Non entities.

The coach.
Maybe, just maybe, Duncan, Ginobili, McDyess, Finley are NOT the only guys that get older on the team. We all get older.

[Chomag]

i hate to say it, but i really do think parker is the problem. the spurs are have more talent and offense than ever but it's just not fitting together. spurs need to bring in a point guard with the court vision and passing skills to control the offense. i would say parker's passing ability is worse than ginobili and duncan's. his assists mainly comes from his drive and kicks. he lacks the creative playmaking other elite point guards possess.

like how andre miller screwed with the blazers, parker is screwing with the spurs. parker needs the ball in his hands to be effective. he has no 3 pt shot and his spot up shooting is shaky. once parker gives up the basketball, the threat is removed and the spurs lose one player on offense. in the past parker could get away with this because the spurs didn't have any other offensive options outside the big 3 but it's different now. now when parker has the ball, jefferson is useless unless he is lucky enough to get a drive and kick. when jefferson or ginobili has the ball, parker is no threat.

too bad the spurs will never consider trading parker so the spurs need to find some other way to work through this. a less dramatic solution would be to trade george hill for a good passing back up point guard. someone like kyle lowry or jarret jack. with so many offensive options spurs can't afford to have two shoot first point guards on the team. they lack glue and ginobili's passing isn't good enough, they need another passing point guard.

It would be really helpful if we had a pass-first set up the offense type of point guard. However Pop allways wants all of his Point guards to be scorers so I don't think it would work.

[bless1187]

the things bothering me about this team are:

1.) 11 men rotation: yes, we have a deep team, and pop does do a lot of tinkering early on, but we cannot be using a 10 - 11 men rotation each night. the last successful team that did really well with a 10 men rotation that i could remember was the Memphis Grizzlies team of 2005; it's just very hard to have a 10 - 11 men rotation; since there's not really enough minutes to be spread around and its really hard for the player to find there sync and that really shows throughout this early season.

2.) Richard Jefferson: i personally think part of the failure of the early season with Richard Jefferson has to be on both the team and himself. As for the team, i think it's on both Pop and Tony to get RJ more involved in the offense and not turn him into a spot up shooter, since that isn't really his game; and as for RJ, i hope he really needs to get more aggressive on offensive and stop deferring so much to Tim and Tony.

3.) Matt Bonner: i personally never been a fan of Matt Bonner. This guy is really the same exact player as Brian Scalabrine of the Celtics. Matt should be at MOST our 4th big averaging at most 10 mpg, but instead Matt still seems to be preferred big next to T. Duncan because he could spread the floor. As far as i know i want my PG, SG, and SF to be able to spread the floor, but i want my PF and C to play tough in the post and rebound, and don' t ever compare M. Bonner to R. Horry since R. Horry could spread the floor, but he was also known for his defense and other intangibles.

[#2!]

This could be part of it, TP is a scoring PG, maybe orchestrating an offense isn't his strongest quality.

exactly, its not a huge deal b/c his other strengths are so great. Pop is one of the best play calling coaches in the league, and he's not doing it this season.

This is why a trade would not be a good thing right now, because the players coming in need to join a well executed system to be effective, and that doesn't yet exist. Unfortunately, when people say that time is the solution it is (frustratingly) true. So while a trade for a long defender in the 3-5 positional range could benefit the team, it won't help if the players on the court still aren't executing.


So, Pop taking back over is the first step, IMO, towards getting the team on track. It allows for all the players on the court to just play, w/o worrying about being confused on the call or about trusting each other either. They only have to trust the coach.

[#2!]

I am asking you this again.

Are you Jefferson's agent?

The Bucks are much better off without this guy.
He is making an unrealistic amount of money.
Carmelo just KILLED him last night.
Daddy vs the kindergarden kid.
He would KILL him anytime, night in, night out.
If Jefferson makes 14 Millions ($, but still), then Carmelo should be making 150 millions.
This Jefferson guy is good for the Clippers.
We all noticed him smiling on the bench in the Boston game, while Boston was up by 11-15 in the 3rd.
Unacceptable. Never seen a Spur do that in long time.




You're correct about RJ's defense, he is not capable of being top tier defender on a nightly basis. However Carmelo will be gameplanned for extensively in any playoff situation, so the team won't be leaving the task to RJ alone.


And that's completely untrue about the whole smiling on the bench thing. The cameramen are always catching tim, tony, manu (hell everyone) joking in a loss. Its impossible to judge them on it since no one can hear what they're saying.


Yes, its frustrating, but also part of the spurs personality. Not too high, not too low.

[EmptyMan]

It is weird watching this team. This team is stacked yet they keep losing.

[pjjrfan]

They just have to start playing better ball. All of them, Tim is doing a great job but he had some horrible turnovers in the Boston game, Manu same thing, but his offense has been inconsistent, Tony the same thing, and his offense has been inconsistent. The bench along with Tim have been the only bright spots. My feeling is that Pop is looking to make Manu the scapegoat, ala Rose and Bowen. This team is not without talent, but it seems that they just can't match the opponents energy and focus this last two games. Pop is going to have to make some major decisions on playing time and how the offense is run, my take, bench Jefferson, and not because of his poor play, but because of his shitty lackadaisical attitude. Manu would also be an option to see if he can get his head together. But this unit has been down this road before, It seems like they play better once they hit a bottom of sorts, it happened in 99, in 03 and again in 07 with the famous lockerroom speech by Pop, "no one is coming in the door who will help us, this team is it." The guys just have to pick themselves up and get back in the fight. Fortunately no team is running away just yet.

[ducks]

duncan is playing well but against boston he had 6 turnovers

all players need to stop turning the ball over

[ducks]

manu had some very bad passes to duncan
4 feet away he throw the bal 150 mhs
wtf
sean said manu and duncan have played together why that fast past

[LakerLanny]

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what the *purs do because the Lakers own the NBA, now and forever.

:toast

[ducks]

tp is playing worse this year because pop wants him to try to get the new 53% in
tp looked agreessive and started to look great in the 4 quarter against nuggets

pop might just need to get tp to start playing like last year and say forget the other people

[TIMMYD!]

I'm trying to forget all the dumb passes that were made last game.

[murpjf88]

if it takes the spurs this long to break in new acquisitions, they might as well not make any moves at the trade deadline. They won't be ready for the playoffs.

[The Truth #6]

I think pop appreciates passing. He initially wanted Tony to be like Stockton a little but gave up forcing that and focused on his strengths.

[temujin]

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what the *purs do because the Lakers own the NBA, now and forever.

:toast

Stern owns the NBA.

And he won't allow a Lakers repeat.

How sweet that will be, considering that the Lakers ARE the best team.

[TD 21]

Spurs are 5th in the league in TO's per game. That is not exactly terrible.

They're also always amongst the 3-5 slowest paced teams in the league. Obviously, a slower, less frenetic pace lends itself to fewer turnovers naturally.

[spurtech09]

take care of the ball.....

[024]

ginobili is the glue that holds this team together. in a perfect world, ginobili and parker would be able to switch bodies. ginobili as the 6'2 point guard and parker as the 6'6 shooting guard.

spurs need a playmaking point guard. since they won't be trading parker anytime soon, they must have at least one passing point guard that can play when ginobili isn't on the floor. right now, only ginobili is succeeding in integrating the spurs new offensive weapons. when he isn't on the floor, the ball just either goes to isolations for parker and duncan, a pick and roll for parker, or a set play for a jump shot. this worked in the past but it wastes the talents of the spurs' new additions. especially since the spurs sacrificed defense for offense, the spurs can't expect the same offensive output with less defense will win them more games.

[Josepatches_]

-Parker is nowhere near the guy we saw last year..all the hype in the off-season, all the talk about how he's our new leader..his scoring looks better than earlier, but his D is horrible, he's turning it over too much, and he needs to pass better..he really needs to clean shit up..we need him to be our #1 scorer..



IMO that's exactly what we don't need.This year we have more players who can score.

He has to make the team play basketball. Better 4-5 players with 10+ points than TP scoring 30

[TIMMYD!]

Dice as predicted is worthless, why would we give a washed up undersized player 10mil? Ian hasnt played 1 min, Jefferson has not been used properly. We are a lottery team.

Unless the spurs make major moves such as trading Manu who is no longer THE MANU....or dealing for a good 7 footer we will be a lottery team or a first round out.

WTF are you talking about 10 million?:nope

[EVAY]

I have been one of Parker's greatest apologists since he got here. But right now, I have to admit it, I think he is playing miserably. He has always been an emotional player, in that, if he doesn't get excited for some reason, he just zones out. He has been WAYY tuned out for most of the games I have seen so far this year.

His fourth quarter against Denver was terrific, but it seems like he just really is just going through the motions out there most of the time.

Manu is inconsistent, but he needs to start and keep starting. He needs the minutes, and Tony HAS to learn to use both Tim and Manu at the same time. Usually I wouldn't get upset with Pop not starting Manu because he was wasted, inasmuch as Tony would never pass him the ball. But now, this has got to come together NOW. Forget saying it is Dec., or whatever month. Championship teams play together well. We don't.

Someone mentioned that Pop uses the pre-all star game as an extended training camp. That is so true it hurts. I used to be a season ticket holder ( for over 12 years) but gave them up because I was sick of spending over $400 bucks a game ( for 2 tix) to watch Pop prepare for what he admits is his 'real' season (the playoffs). Sorry, but I don't want to pay that much money for that. The tickets in November cost the same as the tickets in April.

[ezau]

The lack of playmaking from Parker and Hill is problematic. It would ok if it was just one of them, but both creates a problem. In addition, Manu is erratic right now. Mason is one of the few players who has improved his playmaking, which is great considering how bad it was last year, but we shouldn't be relying on a spot up shooter to make plays for us.

Dice - he seems lost to me and is going thru the motions. Yes, he's a veteran and is a great character guy, but I don't see a player burning to win a title.

Bonner - he's improved but still completely mechanical in the way he plays defense, sets picks and goes through the motions of much of the game. Good teams will cover his open shots better and hence they aren't going in. He's adopted the Oberto tap out which is better than nothing but he doesn't give me confidence for a big game.

Blair - he's showing inconsistency of a young player. This is to be expected but we need everything he can give us. Pop is warming up to him. Unfortunately, I take that more as desperation than turning a new leaf.

Manu - I don't think he's over the hill or anything like that. He can still be productive but I don't think even he knows what he's still capable of at this point. He's been sloppy on one play and then the next he makes a good pass that goes off a teammate's face because they weren't looking for it. He's out of control right now and needs to focus on making simple plays, but that might not be his game.

Jefferson - everyone wants to blame him for our problems but that's a cop out. No he isn't saving us, but the team's problems didn't start with him. He's actually improved on D and the team is slowly actually trying to get him involved. The people pissed at him probably never saw him play before. In the 2004 Olympics it was clear - he's a hustle guy, a great athlete, but not someone with fundamental basketball skills. He's like a running back playing basketball. Just hand him the ball when he's going full speed and see what happens. I think that approach is what the team should take. Instead we're coming up with complicated plays that intellectualize the game for him. I don't think he's an intellectual player like Manu or Tim.

Parker - Is he still injured? Hard to say. What concerns me is less the results and more the effort. It seems as if he's going through the motions right now. He seemed more motivated in years past. His jumpshot is not as good as it was last year. Not sure how that happened.

Pop - I think he's actually coaching fairly well right now. He knows he has to adapt but he's been so rigid for so long because he could, I think he, like the team, is struggling to make sense of the identity of this team.

Do you realize that Parker fired off 11 straight points in the 4th quarter, which made the team stay in the game against Denver?

[relic]

Turnover, Free Throws, Spacing, and Heart.

[roycrikside]

I honestly don't think we're that far away from being a contender. When you play teams like Boston and Denver, and are in the game the whole time against both of them, it's a couple of little things here and there that make the difference. It's not like we lost to bums.

The biggest problem, as I see it, is lack of chemistry with the new guys (Jefferson, McDyess, Blair, Bogans) on both ends of the floor and Pop playing a lot of different combinations and lineups and having some really weird rotations.

I get that Pop is trying to experiment and find what works, but just from a common sense stand point a lot of what he's doing makes no sense.

George Hill, no matter how you try to shoehorn him to be the backup point guard, is not really a point guard. He's just not much of a passer. Mason is a bit better playmaker, but he can't dribble that well and he's a risk to put on the floor because he takes some crazy shots and plays probably the worst defense on the team.

There are two guys on the team that can create shots for others off the pick-and-roll and the drive and kick and they are Tony and Manu. Consequently, one or the other have to be on the floor at all times. Lineups where both sit drive me insane.

I don't think Tony's defense has been as bad it was last year, when he was basically in full on Iverson mode because of injuries and he had to rest on defense. I see him trying more this year. He has been sloppy in some of his decision making, but he is still trying to get used to his new teammates. It could just be my mind playing tricks on me, but it seems like he doesn't pass to RJ, Bogans, Dice, or Blair very much if ever. He's used to the other guys. It'll get better with him, but maybe Pop should take over the play-calling duties to ease that burden from him.

Manu's main problem, besides being unable to put two solid halves together, is that he's not finishing at the rim at all this year. Lord knows he's trying, but he's either getting blocked, or stripped, or not getting a call from the refs, or rimming it out. He'll get better, I'm certain of it, but only if he can stay healthy. He's a rhythm player. If he can string 15-20 consecutive games together, he'll improve.

Jefferson, I'm starting to suspect, is a smaller version of Shawn Marion, in that he's almost useless in a half court offense. He gets his points off transition and hustle and great point guard play. We don't have that here. Tony might be the worst fast break point guard in the NBA as a passer. The solution to get RJ off is to play him with Manu more and maybe even run a small-small pick and roll. Also, we have to post him up more.

I like Blair a lot, but he's a limited player. Teams go right at him defensively because he's small and a rookie. The refs won't give him any breaks. Pop should only use him for energy like 8 mins per half. More than that and you'll get diminishing returns.

McDyess has to play more and wake up. I don't care about his offense too much. If people leave open he has to make jumpers, but he has no excuse not to bring the defense and rebounding every day. Right now he's just going through the motions and not competing very hard. If he won't challenge shots, give Mahinmi or Ratliff a shot.

Mason was playing well, but he hurt his hamstring and has been awful for two games. He needs to find his game again.

Guys I have no problems with at all right now: Duncan, Bonner, Finley, Hill.

Lots of people bash Bonner, but he is absolutely playing up to his ability. He tries hard, he competes, and it's not his fault he's so limited. The jump shot comes and it goes. He takes 'em when he's open and doesn't force anything. What do people want?

Finley I think has been pretty good year. We have so many decent players, he knows he has to shoot like 50% to get any playing time. Defensively he is what he is.

The bottom line is that some guys have to play harder, some have to play harder, and the whole team needs another 10-20 games together to figure out how to play together. Have patience. Unlike last year athleticism and talent are not the problems. We're just not playing as well as we should on paper. The rebounding is good, the effort is there, it's just going to take time.

[MB20]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136034&highlight=offense+Parker+call+plays

From Oct 05th


“I'm really trying to make an effort to call fewer and fewer plays, and let Tony run the show, and let the flow of the motion and the reads he makes dictate most of the offense,” Popovich said.

In short, the Spurs are likely to run more, freelance more and settle into a half-court set less. All of those things would play to Parker's churn-and-burn style.



Well, I don´t think this is working. So Pop should start calling more plays.
Not a knock on Tony. Nobody except for Tim is doing well. I left Blair out, because he is a rookie after all.

[mingus]

there's quite a bit. for one, more consistent usage of Blair, and less of Bonner. Bonner, as great 3-point shooter as he is - well, against the scrubby teams at least - doesn't do enough on the other end. at this point Blair isn't much better at that end, but if he would play more consistently maybe he could develop into a nice defensive player as the season progresses.

better usage of Jefferson. Tony needs to take better advantage of running opportunities, and Pop needs to put him in half-court situations where he's comfortable, like on the low block

then there's stuff you can't control: RJ, Mason (which he's done lately), and Bogans need to hit their threes. it's always been a staple from those positions in this Spurs offense, and until it happens the Spurs will not return to form.

Ginobili needs to stay healthy and get confident again.

if they can work on these they should be a way better team. this team has so much potential int he way of scoring esp. and i think that's why it's so frustrating.

[Spursone]

Go back to the Basics, take care of the Ball, Don't make turnovers, Coach POP - Play to win, not play to experiment, If things are NOT working out, CHANGE, ADAPT!, It's is still early, but we have to decide HOW are we going to get things done and most importantly with WHOM!

Go SPURS GO!

[TJastal]

there's quite a bit. for one, more consistent usage of Blair, and less of Bonner. Bonner, as great 3-point shooter as he is - well, against the scrubby teams at least - doesn't do enough on the other end. at this point Blair isn't much better at that end, but if he would play more consistently maybe he could develop into a nice defensive player as the season progresses.

better usage of Jefferson. Tony needs to take better advantage of running opportunities, and Pop needs to put him in half-court situations where he's comfortable, like on the low block

then there's stuff you can't control: RJ, Mason (which he's done lately), and Bogans need to hit their threes. it's always been a staple from those positions in this Spurs offense, and until it happens the Spurs will not return to form.

Ginobili needs to stay healthy and get confident again.

if they can work on these they should be a way better team. this team has so much potential int he way of scoring esp. and i think that's why it's so frustrating.

I disagree about Bonner.

Shockingly, Bonner has been playing great team basketball the past few games aside from missing his open shots. He's been getting physical in the paint with his defense and rebounding and jumping higher than I've ever seen him jump for boards and loose balls. He's limited his mental miscues and playing within his game not trying to do too much and is passing the ball crisply. He'll never be a great help defender but if he does all of the above plus hit his 3's he and Blair make a nasty inside-out duo together off the bench which, once Bonner starts hitting his 3's again (and he is due anytime soon) they can both absolutely terrorize the oppositions bench players.

[Mel_13]

I disagree about Bonner.

Shockingly, Bonner has been playing great team basketball the past few games aside from missing his open shots. He's been getting physical in the paint with his defense and rebounding and jumping higher than I've ever seen him jump for boards and loose balls. He's limited his mental miscues and playing within his game not trying to do too much and is passing the ball crisply. He'll never be a great help defender but if he does all of the above plus hit his 3's he and Blair make a nasty inside-out duo together off the bench which, once Bonner starts hitting his 3's again (and he is due anytime soon) they can both absolutely terrorize the oppositions bench players.

OK, who are you and what have you done with TJastal?

[admiralsnackbar]

Time

This.

[benefactor]

OK, who are you and what have you done with TJastal?
lol...you thought that too, eh?

[VBM]

Boston and Utah frustrated us with their physical play too. This is probably one of the softest Spurs teams we've had in while.

Where's Mario Elie when we need him...

[BatManu]

It's mostly turnovers. I blame it on the fact that there are several new cogs in the Spurs engine and I don't think everyone knows or is comfortable with their role yet. Pop needs to settle on an 8-9 man rotation and let the core guys get more reps together so that they can learn to win together and develop better communication and chemistry. That's my thinking.

[portnoy1]

Where's Mario Elie when we need him...
he lives on in keith bogans.

[VBM]

he lives on in keith bogans.

Sigh...remember when Spurs games (or Spurs fans rather) were like this?

qAGDNHugl_U

This is quite possibly my favorite Elie - Spurs highlight...

[mingus]

i don't like Bonner in there at all. over the course of the game Blair or Ratlfif is going to make the bigger difference. sure, Bonner might make a couple of threes, but defensively, oppposing players see him as a liabiltiy and target him right away. like i said, at this point Blair is about as much of a liability, but over time it'll improve.

Bonner has had one memorable game against a good team that i can remember and that was at Boston last year. besides that, he's never shown up, and i've givin up on the guy in big-game situations at this point. he's showed to little in too many games for me to give him any more chances. we've got to get away from him imo and find out how to maximize Blair's potential in this offensive system. only way that's going to happen is by letting him continue to play. and unlike Bonner he's shown me too much in the time's he's out there for me to think otherwise. i'm sure that, maximized in this offense, he'll be more of threat than Bonner in every offensive aspect other than the three ball; defensively i can see him becoming above average with his wingspan and girth, but it'll take time out there for that to happen. all of what Blair can potentially produce shouldn't be slowed down from developing so that Bonner can play his 2-3 good games - which have this incrutable ablity to make me doubt he is shit - and than throw up a dud against a good team.

[TJastal]

i don't like Bonner in there at all. over the course of the game Blair or Ratlfif is going to make the bigger difference. sure, Bonner might make a couple of threes, but defensively, oppposing players see him as a liabiltiy and target him right away. like i said, at this point Blair is about as much of a liability, but over time it'll improve.

Bonner has had one memorable game against a good team that i can remember and that was at Boston last year. besides that, he's never shown up, and i've givin up on the guy in big-game situations at this point. he's showed to little in too many games for me to give him any more chances. we've got to get away from him imo and find out how to maximize Blair's potential in this offensive system. only way that's going to happen is by letting him continue to play. and unlike Bonner he's shown me too much in the time's he's out there for me to think otherwise. i'm sure that, maximized in this offense, he'll be more of threat than Bonner in every offensive aspect other than the three ball; defensively i can see him becoming above average with his wingspan and girth, but it'll take time out there for that to happen. all of what Blair can potentially produce shouldn't be slowed down from developing so that Bonner can play his 2-3 good games - which have this incrutable ablity to make me doubt he is shit - and than throw up a dud against a good team.

The best way to maximize Blair's potential is to pair him up with a guy like Bonner who is going to take the opponents biggest player out of the paint and give him room to operate.

As far as Bonner goes, I don't think you've watched the past two games, dude has been scrapping and hustling for rebounds and loose balls and about the only guy that hasn't been committing careless turnovers.

[SpurNation]

Have confidence in themselves AND trust in their teamates.

Right now...too many are flying solo either by choice or attrition.

[rascal]

The team needs a true quality 7' center to team up with Duncan. Bonner needs to go to the bench for that center. The team needs to run the break more often when opportunities present themselves. The spurs have better athletes in transition and finishers(with Hill and Jefferson) than shooters now. Blair needs to get big minutes.

The Spurs need to play to their team strenghts not try to fit the players into a mold that worked with previous teams.

[xellos88330]

Stop turning the ball over.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000

Turnovers have been the killer. If they reduced the number of turnovers by at least 5 for each of the last two games, it would be 2 W's instead of L's.

[HarlemHeat37]

*sigh*..

losing to Utah 3 times in a row in the same season is alarming..we've absolutely owned Utah during this decade..kind of a fitting way to say goodbye to the Duncan era..

20 mil $ in expirings..make a move, you're already all-in anyways..

[Chomag]

*sigh*..

losing to Utah 3 times in a row in the same season is alarming..we've absolutely owned Utah during this decade..kind of a fitting way to say goodbye to the Duncan era..

20 mil $ in expirings..make a move, you're already all-in anyways..

when was the last time Utah has swept the Spurs in the season. Anyone know?

[Höfner]

Trade some people.

[HarlemHeat37]

when was the last time Utah has swept the Spurs in the season. Anyone know?

1997 I think...

[hoopdreams11]

Spurs need to protect the rim better to many dunks this year and get better spacing on offense

[SpurNation]

Devine intervention to make old legs new, closed minds open, and renewed faith that it will be done without injury or fail.

[TJastal]

Was this a memorable enough game for you, Mingus? Or, is Utah not a good enough team to count?

[Chieflion]

Reduce the mileage on Ginobili by 4 years.

[quentin_compson]

One thing's for sure - we're in for a very interesting season.

Right now, we really look like the borderline playoff team the standings say we are. We can keep games close against really good teams like Boston or Denver (or Utah when playing at home), but somehow, we always fall short at the end.

One of the main problems in my opinion is that there are a lot of queation marks concerning certain players:
- Tony clearly is playing nowhere near the amazing level he reached last season. In all likelihood, he is not fully healthy. I have no doubt that he would soon be back to his best when regaining his physical strength - but can we really afford to rest him for a longer period right now?
- Manu looks like a good bench player who can occasionally have a very good game - but he doesn't look like Manu Ginobili. He seems to lack confidence in his game and his decisions. Hopefully, this will change as the season progresses.
- RJ really has to step up his D. It may sound strange, but I think the key to that is getting him more involved offensively - in the couple of games where he shined offensively and was getting a lot of touches, he looked much more active on the defensive end, as well. I still refuse to classify Jefferson as a bad fit for this team, but it's about time this team is starting to use him more and more efficiently - it's also about time RJ plays with more aggression and intensity.

For the time being, though, we should remember one thing:

0IywjWWlxF8

[koriwhat]

- play a full 48 mins of bball
- keep with their defensive assignments
- stop turning the ball over by throwing it out of bounds or at the back of your teammate

[xtremesteven33]

What does this team need to do to play better??


Time.

[mingus]

Was this a memorable enough game for you, Mingus? Or, is Utah not a good enough team to count?

great, great game by Bonner, but it's all part of what he does, which is play well against the average and good teams (Utah is good, but less so without Kirlenko and thier back up PG), and throw up stinkers against the Elite teams. Bonner isn't getting those shots against any of the Elite. i know that, you should know that. Boston last year was an abberation.

[dbestpro]

This is simple. If you are going to take plays off go sit down.

[Flux451]

Our team looked tired at the end of the game. Tony looked pretty slow.

We need to get our heads out of our asses. LEt's go Spurs