It's come to this : FREE IAN MAHINMI ! ! !

[objective]

Warning: needlessly long screed ahead declaring the unleashing of Ian Mahinmi!

Time for a fresh re-examination of Ian Mahinmi, and the case I’m presenting that he has been misused and why he should be getting minutes in a rotation right now. Of course he won’t get minutes and will only be a missed opportunity and regarded as a bust, but I still feel like getting this off my chest.

The vast majority of this was written in the second week of November but never posted. And I post this now fully realizing that the Spurs were close to beating to of the top teams in the league the past couple of games and no doubt by the end of the season will be much sharper. And though Bonner, McDyess and whoever else didn't perform all that well these past two games, that wasn't the sole reason they lost. But still I say, "Free IAN!"

This is on my mind because of the Lakers-Suns game early this NBA season, where the Lakers brutalized the Suns without Pau Gasol and with Bynum being such a big factor. Now before you over-react and start exclaiming “Ian isn’t lightyears close to Bynum! He’s also too small and frail! He gets injured putting on his sportcoat! LOL @ you!” . . . Let’s look at how things have developed.

Andrew Bynum did not step onto the court a finished product. He was raw skillwise, physically unready, and untrustworthy on the court. And add to that later offcourt behavior that would make some question his dedication to the game. Later he would have two severe injuries to prematurely end entire seasons. In all these he’s not that far removed from Ian.

So how did Bynum overcome all these obstacles to become the starting center on a title team with the occasional games of sheer domination? He has the game already to be an all-star and so much more with years to come, despite serious injury concerns that linger going forward. It wasn’t an overnight process.

Two big things that we’ve not really seen with the Spurs and Ian happened with Bynum: One, he was given playing time, REAL PLAYING TIME. Even when he was hurting the team and looking clueless, he was given the time he needed to find his way. Two, the hands-on attention of a personal coach just for him to develop his skills.

After his rookie year where he saw sporadic minutes, Bynum heading into his second year was given the proper diet, the nutrition of playing in games. Make excuses if you want, like maybe Mihm and Kwame were hurt or the Lakers weren’t true contenders and had the luxury of playing him, but the fact is that Phil Jackson put him into the fire. And he wasn’t all that great. He made mistakes. Sometimes lots of them.

Bynum started 51 games his sophomore year. And he had plenty of bad games. He had 14 of those starts, nearly 25% of the total, where he had 6 & 6 or much less, often with a lot of fouls. Under 6 points and 6 boards for a guy so big? Dumb fouls? What madness had struck Phil Jackson? Didn’t he have some older bench scrub he could start over him? Obviously the kid wasn’t ready.

Just look at some of the starts with games like this in the 06-07 season:

11-08 : 2 & 5, 6 fouls
11-24 : 4 & 2
11-29 : 3 & 5
02-09 : 2 & 4
02-26 : 2 & 3 in 32.5 minutes!
03-09 : 2 & 5 and 5 fouls in 33 minutes.
04-06 : 0 & 2 and 4 fouls

And that’s just some of them. He had his ups, and he had his downs. Real bad downs. People wondered if he’d ever get it. And he was such a foul machine. But he developed because he was given the opportunity to develop.

And re: the coaching. For one season in Austin Ian Mahinmi was given as close to the Bynum treatment as possible, working with Toros AC Roy Rogers on his game. And improvement happened. He wasn’t some Stromile who never got better, his game progressed! If you watched the archive games from early in the season compared with late in the season, what a difference! Even just checking the boxscores will show what playing time + hands-on attention can do great things.

But Roy Rogers was gone after that year, and Ian was mostly too hurt to play anyway the next season. And he was hurt in an offseason Grgurich camp trying to improve, he wasn’t snowboarding or something stupid, he was hurt trying to get better as a player but Spurs fans seem to hold that against him. But in all my scouring of news items, I’ve never come across any other coach who was there just for Ian, or even to concentrate with him. After Roy Rogers, that was it. He didn't have 4 years of hands on training with an all time great like Bynum with Kareem.

Who is there for Ian to work with now, or last year? Well of course now they’ve written him off and won’t give him a shot anyway. Even with Duncan was inactive earlier in the year, Ian Mahinmi couldn'’t get activated over Haislip or Ratliff even though Ian has spent two years in the system. It’s a damn shame. I understand why they did that, I’d probably do it too. If he gets playing time and performs even marginally satisfactory he’s priced himself out of their range because even just promising young bigs get nice deals (like Amir Johnson, hell like Jackie Butler!). I wouldn’t give him the chance to make me look dumb after not picking up his option either.

Hell, look at Jermaine O’Neal’s career. Sure he’s washed up now and riddled with injuries, but go back to the young Jermaine. Who never really got his shot in Portland. Who was so raw and underdeveloped. That guy was in Portland for FOUR years and totaled 18 starts and averaged about 12 minutes a game in four seasons. In his fourth year, when you’d think he should have had it all down, he started an 8 game stretch in March and April of 2000 where he had monster statlines such as 2 & 0, 2 & 2, 4 & 3, 0 & 3, and 2 & 0 (against the Spurs).

Four years into the league, he gets some late season burn and he still is so raw that it doesn’t just happen all at once. Four years of practicing the not-so-common nba practice against Rasheed, Sabonis, and Brian Grant and he still wasn’t ready to deliver immediately.

THAT is now Ian Mahinmi.

This is my “FREE MAHINMI” cry. So many Spurs fans want to lash out at him for being a bust. Well I say that if he’s a bust, he’s a bust because of the Spurs. If Andrew Bynum was given the Ian treatment the Lakers wouldn’t be the same team, maybe not even close. Nobody is an NBA-ready player until they’re made into an NBA ready player. And the Spurs aren’t making him, they’re burying him.

PLAY IAN NOW. Hell, START Ian NOW. Be forewarned. You play him now and he will have games with a lot of fouls. He will have games where you look at his statline and wonder what he was doing out there. There will be defensive foul-ups, bad shots, errant passes, costly turnovers, dumb fouls and assorted other problems. That is the learning curve, that is his burden. But if ANYTHING is to be gained from the investment in him, it has to be now.

Play him now. Even though the Spurs have wasted this valuable time early in the season when the schedule was so wide open with so many days off and practice time available. But now when he might still have some shred of conditioning left from camp. Play him now because he can’t go to the d-league. Now because if you play him and he is a total catastrophe after a respectable trial of 10-15 games you still have plenty of time to work in the Bonners and Ratliffs and whoever. Now because he’s not just a Stromile, he’s not just a Jackie Butler. He has talent. We’ve seen it. It’s there. Quit on him now and you’ll never get it, maybe no team in the future can get it out of him.

He can help this team. He can help in a big way if you play him enough and give him the opportunity, but it has to be a real opportunity. Because we all know a team with a healthy Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and can carry almost any big stiff to the playoffs. Even if Mahinmi is bad, it won’t hurt the Spurs to find out now.

He’s still barely 23 years old. He’s younger than George Hill. He’s younger than Hansborough. And still younger than Jason Thompson, Courtney Lee, Al Horford, Jeff Green, Rodney Stuckey, and Al Thornton (by 3 years!), just to name some but not all.

FREE IAN MAHINMI

[Thompson]

With Finley out and Hairston in Austin (unless they recall him), maybe they'll have Ratliff in street clothes for a couple of games and give Ian or Haislip a little time. Any time, even garbage time (which we seem to have little of lately).

I can't see how Ian could be that bad from what we already know about him, unless the Spurs are trying to re-sign him cheaply (at the expense of this year, which I don't see happening). He wasn't the best center in the D-league for nothing a couple years ago, and he had a few good games in summer league.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm all for Ian getting a chance since Ratliff sits out a lot of games as a precaution anyways..it's not going to happen though..

I believe there's a reason he isn't playing though, more than just disappointing with his play..his play in preseason wasn't bad, so I don't know..

[DesignatedT]

no

[itzsoweezee]

the spurs are too small. they need to give a lot more pt to ratliff or mahinmi. they aren't going to win a championship with this lineup.

[SenorSpur]

At this point, I don't see any negatives toward throwing him out there for some spot minutes. What makes this an even better idea is that Ratliff is racking up DNPs and McDyess' minutes are limited. Therefore, the Spurs are a smallish frontline. Since the team is losing to top-level talent anyway, I don't see the harm in giving the kid some PT.

[spurtech09]

yes!!!!!!!!!!!

[MannyIsGod]

no.

[TIMMYD!]

Yes.

[slick'81]

i wonder when terry cummings was old and ineffective if people wondered what jack haley could do given some minutes lol

[objective]

i wonder when terry cummings was old and ineffective if people wondered what jack haley could do given some minutes lol

is there a logical reason to 'wonder' about that?

Because there's not a lot of similarity between a 30 year old Jack Haley who had already logged over 50 career starts and proven he wasn't very good and a 23 year old Mahinmi who was buried by the same people who decided Scola wasn't worth keeping.

[weebo]

I agree. At worst, this guy could be an extra six fouls.

[The Truth #6]

I expected this to be another horrible rant, but the OP makes a decent argument here. Obviously not everyone will agree with the idea but I think there's merit to this idea. Ian knows the system better than Dice and Theo. The FO's ridiculous pride is what's holding them back. He didn't prove to be an All Star, however its possible he could still contribute.

There's all this talk of experimenting with the lineup, but its very tame by any objective measure. It's a lot of reshuffling the veteran deck. Hairston and Ian know the system better than most of the new guys, and their athletic abilities could possibly help on defense. At least for the games against the bad teams, which are plentiful.

[relic]

Yes!

[gospursgojas]

Yes free him so he can get injured again and you will stop looking to him as the savior of the spurs

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol comparing this bust to a young Jermaine oneal = epic phail...

JO only blossom cause he was first option when he went to the pacers and loggin heavy minutes

mahinmi will never get that sort of opportunity on the spurs...

[objective]

he won't get the opportunity because they won't let him get the opportunity.

It's not like anyone since Robinson has had a stranglehold on minutes with their stellar play except Horry.

Don't forget, Pop was so convinced that George Hill couldn't play that he buried him against the Mavs until it was too late.

AND Pop buried Stephen Jackson on the injured list for an entire season just to keep feeding Steve Smith and Terry Porter. And don't ever forget, without injuries to both Smith and Ginobili at the start of 02/03, Jackson would have never gotten his chance.

[objective]

Yes free him so he can get injured again and you will stop looking to him as the savior of the spurs

where did I write that he was the savior?

Oh that's right, I didn't paint him as the HoF messiah. In fact I wrote an entire paragraph about the problems I expect would happen if a miracle occurred and he did get time and it wasn't flattering. I even gave examples of the times in Bynum's and O'Neal's young careers when they were first given opportunities and how poor they performed, especially O'Neal. Those are the reasonable expectations I laid forth.

This is about swallowing some pride and getting something out of him while still able. This thread wouldn't exist if the rest of the Spurs bigs were just incredible out there. He could provide things up front that the Spurs don't have right now. But he sure won't without a modest opportunity.

These are all reasonable and objective requests about the roster and the rotation.

You've never read me post about trading Manu or Parker or firing Pop or anything like that, and you can go ahead and search through my entire posting history.

This isn't outlandish. It's not trading Parker for Paul, or Manu for McGrady, or Bonner for Lebron. It's a minor tweak early in a basketball season that could pay off big.

And if it doesn't?

Well, it's not like Bonner and McDyess are going to forget how to play if their minutes are cut down for about 20 games or so.

[tp2021]

I mean, if the SPurs want to use the beginning of the season to evaluate and all that, why not put him in there? If any one of our bigs goes down and we are forced to play him, we would be fucked if he hadn't gotten some PT earlier in the season.

[EP Money Man]

Get Manhimi in the starting lineup. I mean COME ON!!:flag::flag::flag::flag:

Is he retarted?

Lets go!!!:flag::flag::flag::flag: Were "all in" this year anyways. Just do it. I mean if we can play a rook (that is a beast) that gets in foul trouble early (3 in 1st Q) lets just start Yawn. Let Yawn and Tim mix it up. Besides Dice should be a backup for Tim to limit Tim's minutes.

Starting 5:
Yawn C
Tim PF
Manu SF/SG/PG
Bogans SG
Tony PG

Yeah thats right, like Pop said when we were going down in the playoffs, its time, the "BIG THREE NEED TO PLAY TOGETHER!!!" Start Manu. Lets face it, he is the "playmaker" but doesn't have the same juice off the bench he used to.

Just limit Manu's minutes, take him or Bogans out first 6 mins and bring in Hill first.

Bench should then be:
Hill SG/PG (first to come in, let him run the offense)
Dice PF/C (roaming for that mid-ranger)
Blair PF/C (beasting)
RJ SF (cutting. and I mean mad cutting to the basket)
Mase SG (PG but not really, only in pick and rolls w/Blair)

Fin's injury is a blessing in disguise. And Bonner should be a situational player (almost no situations).

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Ratliffe and Ian should not be part of any Spurs regular rotation. There is a reason why the Spurs did not renew the team option on his contract. He nor Ratliffe are not part of the Spurs future.

[itzsoweezee]

Ratliffe and Ian should not be part of any Spurs regular rotation. There is a reason why the Spurs did not renew the team option on his contract. He nor Ratliffe are not part of the Spurs future.

you realize that the spurs are not beating the lakers without another 7 footer, right? you think blair, bonner, or mcdyess can guard gasol/bynum?

[murpjf88]

you realize that the spurs are not beating the lakers without another 7 footer, right? you think blair, bonner, or mcdyess can guard gasol/bynum?

you do realize that 5 fouls in 10 minutes isn't going to beat the lakers either.

[VI_Massive]

I'm in favor of Ian getting minutes early in the season to see where he is, see if he can be useful etc.

The only valid arguments against it, I think, are:

1. The team has evaluated Ian in practices and he's not playing well enough to warrant game time.

2. The team is having a hard enough time integrating new players and can't afford to add the growing pains of working in another young, inexperienced guy.

I can understand either or both of these being true and preventing him from getting time.

But, it seems that the team has kind of decided they know what they have in Ratliff and are sitting on him as the spare big man. Not spending a ton of time getting him into the mix, etc. Since that seems to be the case, I think they should activate Mahimni and give him some time out there to see what they have.

[thOOdee]

you realize that the spurs are not beating the lakers without another 7 footer, right? you think blair, bonner, or mcdyess can guard gasol/bynum?

exactly .... there are many intangibles that a 7 footer brings. especially one playing alongside timmy. I would prefer theo, but even an EXPERIMENT w ian in the mix is worth watching against the length of other top teams. IT CAN'T BE WORSE THAN THE RASHOS, ELLIS, BUTLERS, AND BONNERS of the past teamed w timmy.:depressed

[objective]

Free mahinmi !

[jason1301]

Has the TS or anyone else seen (or heard?) how Ian is doing at practices?

:toast

[LOL@MavsFan]

Why not try it? I mean they couldn't play any worse than they already have, can they?

[timvp]

Good writeup. I am honestly surprised Mahinmi hasn't even been given a minute of action. Or even one game in uniform on the bench. Haislip over Mahinmi didn't make much sense to me.

That said, how would you fit him in? Which of McDyess, Blair or Bonner would you drop out of the rotation? The problem for Mahinmi is that the bench bigs might be the one area where this team is stronger than expected. Playing four bigs consistently is difficult enough ... five would be impossible.

[dbestpro]

Pop and the brain trust will not play Ian regardless even if the entire front line goes down. By not renewing his contract they are afraid that he might play too well thus showing up the brain trust. They want to actually resign Ian at the vet minimum for next year, when they will allow him to play and declare that they knew he had it in him all along.

[Thompson]

Pop and the brain trust will not play Ian regardless even if the entire front line goes down. By not renewing his contract they are afraid that he might play too well thus showing up the brain trust. They want to actually resign Ian at the vet minimum for next year, when they will allow him to play and declare that they knew he had it in him all along.

The problem with that theory is that it could potentially put our chances this year in jeopardy just to save a few bucks down the line. I don't think Holt would go for broke this year with his spending and then let them blow this season by not playing Ian (if Ian was really that good, as in your scenario). I don't know what the deal is, but I wish they'd give him a shot.

[HarlemHeat37]

Good writeup. I am honestly surprised Mahinmi hasn't even been given a minute of action. Or even one game in uniform on the bench. Haislip over Mahinmi didn't make much sense to me.

That said, how would you fit him in? Which of McDyess, Blair or Bonner would you drop out of the rotation? The problem for Mahinmi is that the bench bigs might be the one area where this team is stronger than expected. Playing four bigs consistently is difficult enough ... five would be impossible.

Why does somebody have to drop out of the rotation?..

Ratliff doesn't even play, the team is obviously using him as an emergency guy and/or saving his fragile body for the playoffs..so why not have Ian on the 12 man roster?..there have been many times where one or 2 or even all 3 of McDyess/Blair/Bonner haven't played well..there's also been foul trouble issues at times..I don't really see the harm of having Ian in for a trial run or something at least..at least against some bad teams where his performance shouldn't hurt us enough to cost the game..

Physically, he remains the best/cheapest option to fill a need..the odds are that he won't fill it properly for the team, but what's the harm in trying him out?..

It just seems odd to me that the FO loved him so much, and then all of a sudden they've just given up on him..he didn't have a good preseason, but it certainly wasn't bad..especially when you consider that Haislip was activated ahead of him and Haislip had one of the worst preseasons I've ever seen..something is up IMO..maybe Ian doesn't work hard enough or has done something to upset the organization..I don't really see how it could hurt to see him from a basketball standpoint..

[Whisky Dog]

I'm for it to get length in there, but the real weakness surprisingly is the wings. Manu, Mason, Jefferson, Bogans - all have been trash. That's the biggest issue.

[objective]

Good writeup. I am honestly surprised Mahinmi hasn't even been given a minute of action. Or even one game in uniform on the bench. Haislip over Mahinmi didn't make much sense to me.

That said, how would you fit him in? Which of McDyess, Blair or Bonner would you drop out of the rotation? The problem for Mahinmi is that the bench bigs might be the one area where this team is stronger than expected. Playing four bigs consistently is difficult enough ... five would be impossible.

He should be on the roster instead of Ratliff. Ratliff is dependable, he won't forget how to play if he's inactive.

I would then start by sitting either Duncan or McDyess on either end of back-to-backs. They've played the fewest games in the league and not too many B2Bs, but that's about to change. That's how I get him in first.

Then if McDyess is still having his feast or famine games, bring McDyess off the bench. He's said before that he prefers the bench role, and that might be the way to go with him.

Then that leaves either Blair or Bonner as the starter. I'm not naive enough to think even with a miracle that Ian gets starting right off (or ever). But that's where it starts again. If Blair is starting foul trouble can't be far behind, so the fouls will act to curb his minutes naturally.

And Bonner starting makes him more up-and-down, and in games where he's not 'on', Bonner makes it hard to keep him on the court.

That will create the opportunities for Mahinmi to play. All he needs is to be on the active roster when things are going great (blowout wins), not so great (foul trouble or poor play from McDyess/Blair/Mahinmi), poorly (sprained ankles by any of the other bigs), or badly (blowout losses). Any of those situations if Pop swallows his pride he can look down the bench and see Ian sitting there and send him in.

IF Mahinmi plays even semi-okay, the other things he brings (size, shot contesting) will be hard to ignore, and will be a good problem to have with regards to the rotation.

---------

And just to follow up on what I already wrote, I feel bad for Ian that he gets his injuries held against him when they all happened when he was trying to improve his game. The pec injury in summer 07 that kept him out of summer league happened when he was working out here in the practice facility. The ankle injury misdiagnosed by the Spurs doctors with the invisible bone chips happened at a big man camp.

He's done everything the Spurs have asked him to do. Sign with a Euroleague team? He did it, when he probably could have thrown a stink over the Spurs signing Jackie Butler as their young big instead of bringing him. Bulk up? He's done that. His natural body type has limited what he could do, but he's put on muscle. Go the d-league? He did that. Learn the system? He did that. Improve his scoring skill after being drafted, when all he had was dunks? He did that. Go to a big man camp? He did that. Have season-ending ankle surgery? He did that. Work with Roy Rogers? He did that.

Time and again he's done everything they've asked to put himself in a position to play, but they won't even give him a chance to play so badly that fans on internet boards can retort, "See! He sucks! No wonder he wasn't playing! Objective you're a moron!"

[Tp9gospursgo]

If Ian was any good he'd play.

[HarlemHeat37]

If Ian was any good he'd play.

If only it was so simple..

[Mel_13]

He should be on the roster instead of Ratliff. Ratliff is dependable, he won't forget how to play if he's inactive.

All he needs is to be on the active roster when things are going great (blowout wins), not so great (foul trouble or poor play from McDyess/Blair/Mahinmi), poorly (sprained ankles by any of the other bigs), or badly (blowout losses).

Good argument. Hard to make a case against dressing Ian against selected opponents and then playing him when specific situations arise.

I hate saying "there's nothing to lose" because usually there is something to lose, but having Ian in uniform to use in emergencies or in blowouts would seem to be almost completely risk-free. In this case, there's nothing to lose.

[HarlemHeat37]

it would have been interesting to see him playing against mobile bigs like Thompson and Greene tonight..they gave us trouble..it would have been a good test IMO..

[SenorSpur]

it would have been interesting to see him playing against mobile bigs like Thompson and Greene tonight..they gave us trouble..it would have been a good test IMO..

Good point. It would have been very interesting to see what Ian could do against players of his own limited experience level.

That's exactly the point of my frustration with Pop. It seems that every opposing team has either active bigs, active wings or both. Players whose energy, quickness and athleticism seem to cause the Spurs trouble. Outside of Hill and Blair, the Spurs simply don't have other players that can match up with these kinds of opposing players - or should I say if they do, Pop simply refuses to play them.

It's tough for old guys to match the quickness, speed and relentless nature of young, energetic guys - especially on back-to-back games. Still Pop seems unfazed, as he seems to totally discount the need for these skills.

[BOHOLANO#21]

Agree. Free Ian. I wish they start it asap.

[Chieflion]

it would have been interesting to see him playing against mobile bigs like Thompson and Greene tonight..they gave us trouble..it would have been a good test IMO..
Dude, when did Greene become a big? It is tough for them not to give us any trouble when there is no transition defense.

[exstatic]

If only it was so simple..

It is. You act like they don't know what they have. He's had 3 training camps, a full season in Austin, and hundreds of practices to show his stuff, and he's wearing a suit every night.

[exstatic]

Dude, when did Greene become a big? It is tough for them not to give us any trouble when there is no transition defense.

Greene is 6'11", or so Sean said on the telecast.

[Chieflion]

Greene is 6'11", or so Sean said on the telecast.
He is listed 6 foot 11 but plays like a tweener. His real height is around 6 foot 9. I would not call him a legitimate big. He is more perimeter based but is still a raw player. The reason why Ian is not playing cause he did not impress during practice, or is just stupid on the court. He got his option declined, shows just how useless he has been. I agree with you on this.

[BillMc]

If by "Free" him, you mean cut him I'm on board. I'd rather see any minutes that would be given to Ian given to Blair to accelerate his development or Theo, if we really need a D-first big.

[dbestpro]

We need size in the lane. Too many points in the paint. As a result the perimeter defense can't crowd the shooters, then there are too many outside shots. Our interior defense is just too slow or too short to get to where they need to be in time.

Free Ian. Free Haislip.

Inactivate Hairston/Finley/Theo or whoever is most hurt for just 4-5 games.

[Baseline]

We had absolutely nothing to lose by playing Ian early in this current season, but Pop chose not to do so. Now we're only 10-9 and we need all the wins we can get, so it doesn't look good for Ian unless Dice and some other bigs go down.

I think Objective's post is fantastic, and I totally agree. I just think Pop is a total idiot when it comes to things like this, and I think he has grossly mishandled Ian. I can see the kid going somewhere else and eventually being a productive player. Maybe not an all-star player, but a guy who can give you solid minutes underneath, rebound, and block some shots.

I sincerely wish Pop had the same acumen for developing young players that a Phil Jackson has. I hate the Lakers with a fiery passion, but Jackson has developed guys like Pippen, Horace Grant, and Bynum and has done wonders. As for Pop, the only guy I can say he has kind of developed as a young guy is Parker, and Parker is the fastest guy in the league, so he's super-talented. I can't give credit to Pop for Duncan's development or for Manu's because they were both very good players when they arrived in San Antonio. In fact, we all know how long it took Pop to let go and let Manu play his game.

I just don't see the downside in letting Ian play some minutes with the Big Four. If he embarrasses himself, so be it. But the point is we have absolutely nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain if he shows some spark. I just don't see it hapening with Popovich because unfortunately Pop is Pop.

Well done, Objective. I concur.

[td_tp_manu]

Last night I had this wild dream of trading Ian for Courtney Lee - is it because of this thread?...

[Bartleby]

Last night I had this wild dream of trading Ian for Courtney Lee - is it because of this thread?...

Too bad the Spurs didn't draft David Lee, who went two spots after Ian.

[exstatic]

We need size in the lane. Too many points in the paint. As a result the perimeter defense can't crowd the shooters, then there are too many outside shots. Our interior defense is just too slow or too short to get to where they need to be in time.

Free Ian. Free Haislip.

Inactivate Hairston/Finley/Theo or whoever is most hurt for just 4-5 games.

Theo Ratliff is averaging 1.22 blocks in 8.8 minutes. That's all the situational interior defense we need, and a hell of a lot more than Ian could provide.

[SenorSpur]

I sincerely wish Pop had the same acumen for developing young players that a Phil Jackson has. I hate the Lakers with a fiery passion, but Jackson has developed guys like Pippen, Horace Grant, and Bynum and has done wonders. As for Pop, the only guy I can say he has kind of developed as a young guy is Parker, and Parker is the fastest guy in the league, so he's super-talented. I can't give credit to Pop for Duncan's development or for Manu's because they were both very good players when they arrived in San Antonio. In fact, we all know how long it took Pop to let go and let Manu play his game.

That's probably the one holdover trait that Pop acquired from Larry Brown and it hasn't fared him very well. No one claims that Pop has to field a roster as young as the Blazers, but his lack of patience with young players and his disdain for developing them on the fly, has left holes in the roster that both he and R.C. continually feel should be plugged via free agency. It never hurts to sprinkle some freshly-drafted youth into an aging roster. Look at how both Hill and Blair have revitalized the talent level.

I agree that this Ian situation has been totally mishandled. Despite their incredible track record of success, I just don't trust their assessment that Ian cannot play. At the very least, there's no reason that he couldn't suit up for spot minutes against opponents. After all, Ratliff is on ice and McDyess' minutes are monitored.

[VI_Massive]

That's probably the one holdover trait that Pop acquired from Larry Brown and it hasn't fared him very well. No one claims that Pop has to field a roster as young as the Blazers, but his lack of patience with young players and his disdain for developing them on the fly, has left holes in the roster that both he and R.C. continually feel should be plugged via free agency. It never hurts to sprinkle some freshly-drafted youth into an aging roster. Look at how both Hill and Blair have revitalized the talent level.

I agree that this Ian situation has been totally mishandled. Despite their incredible track record of success, I just don't trust their assessment that Ian cannot play. At the very least, there's no reason that he couldn't suit up for spot minutes against opponents. After all, Ratliff is on ice and McDyess' minutes are monitored.

But then again, maybe the fact that some young guys -- Blair and Hill -- are getting significant time means that Pop is giving time to those who deserve it due to strong practice performance, etc. while those who aren't getting game time aren't getting it for a reason.

Of course, Pop did have to be dragged kicking and screaming in to playing Hill in important situations last year, but maybe he's, dare I say, changed a little bit with regards to young guys who show they deserve some time?

[The Truth #6]

Pop changes in small ways. I'm still not convinced he's not trying to make RJ into another Bruce Bowen. The Kings game was the first time he made a point to make him a focus of the offense, which should have been a priority if we're trying to save Tim and Manu, and I suppose Tony as well considering he's playing beneath optimal health. Instead we've been hiding RJ in the corner hoping he'll hit corner 3s. Last game, he runs some two man game with Tim for the first time all season. Yeah, Pop can change but it takes way too long for it to happen.

We'll never know for sure what happened with Scola, but I get the sense things soured between he and RC because of some emails...emails!?

So I'll agree with SenorSpur that, no, I don't trust their opinion of Ian. From what I've seen, he still needs work, but that doesn't mean he's a stiff. It's clear the guy has been dying to see NBA action. During his stellar season in the D league I didn't know why he didn't get called up, especially when we were dying for athleticism. He put in hard work, got labelled soft (perhaps his fault to a degree, though he clearly didn't receive the best medical care for his "upper ankle sprain") and basically got put on the shelf for reasons we'll never know until Harvey writes a random article 5 years from now explaining what the fuck actually happened behind the scenes.

He's not going to play but it's a waste of Holt's money. Think about it - we developed this guy for the last three years, and now he's finally healthy, and we're not even going to let him play a little just to know for sure. He's young. People change, even if Pop doesn't very much.

Pop's stability has been the best thing for the team when we were in our prime, but now that the situation has changed, Pop needs to find a way to adapt as well.

[SenorSpur]

Pop changes in small ways. I'm still not convinced he's not trying to make RJ into another Bruce Bowen. The Kings game was the first time he made a point to make him a focus of the offense, which should have been a priority if we're trying to save Tim and Manu, and I suppose Tony as well considering he's playing beneath optimal health. Instead we've been hiding RJ in the corner hoping he'll hit corner 3s. Last game, he runs some two man game with Tim for the first time all season. Yeah, Pop can change but it takes way too long for it to happen..
Amen! I'm not convinced either. And if Pop was or is still trying to turn RJ into a defensive stopper first, he's stubbornly making a grave mistake. If Pop wanted a true Bowen replacement, he should've aggressively drafted and developed such a player, in-house years ago, rather than wait until the man was gone. It's always been my worst fear that Bowen would leave the building without an heir apparent in place.

Back to RJ, it puzzles me as to why it took so long to unwrap and unleash him in a manner in which he's been successful during his career. The Sacto game was quite a revelation - especially for those who've been calling this guy a fake or a bust.

Pop's stability has been the best thing for the team when we were in our prime, but now that the situation has changed, Pop needs to find a way to adapt as well.
True. What is even worse is that with every opponent the Spurs play, there are instances during each game where the Spurs athletic deficiencies are badly exposed, by lesser-experienced, superbly-talented, younger, quicker, players. All this, despite a major offseason makeover. For a team that is still lacking in frontline size and post defense, the Ian situation will remain a head-scratcher. Another is the Haslip acquisition. Meanwhile, Duncan is forced to continue carrying a disproportionate load and the absence of a young, long, talented SF, waiting in the wings, is still just a dream.

[objective]

re: Ian possibly not getting time because of practice and the possibility that he's doing poorly and that is why he's not playing and Hill and Blair are.

2 main thoughts in response besides the 'Hill wasn't ready to play Dallas!' theme

1. If Ian was a player who never showed any improvement, like a Stromile Swift, I'd believe the poor practicing narrative. If Ian was a player who never was in great shape, like Jackie Butler, I'd believe the poor practicing/lack of dedication narrative.

However, because of how Ian's skills have progressed ever since before he was drafted when his U-18 french team game was online, to french league games, to the d-league and summer league, the end result makes it hard for me to easily subscribe to him being poor in practice. Combine with the work he's put into bulking up, limited as he might be due to body type, also leads me to believe that his work ethic probably isn't the problem.

2. Even if Ian doesn't look to good in practice . . . practice isn't live action. He wouldn't be the first player who wasn't a 'practice player' and was much better in actual games. Chris Douglas-Roberts fell out of the first round last year because he was an awful workout player. He cost himself money because he had the workouts from hell. But this year, now that he's healthy for the Nets, is having a quality season, starting and getting almost 17 and 5, albeit for a bad team. But CDR is just one of those guys who doesn't have a spark in practice, and you'd never know if he could play . . . without playing him.

[objective]

Back to RJ, it puzzles me as to why it took so long to unwrap and unleash him in a manner in which he's been successful during his career. The Sacto game was quite a revelation - especially for those who've been calling this guy a fake or a bust.

this is a good point.

Keep in mind the recent article, if I read it right . . . it took 20 games for Parker and RJ to get together to work in a lob for RJ. 20 games without the coaching staff forcing the issue, and so it falls to TP and RJ?

And last year I was posting my disappointment that still holds is how backdoor lobs for George Hill were nowhere to be found. Hill had plenty of alley-oops in college, it seemed like half of the IUPUI game recaps had at least one. He had the athleticism, but where were these kinds of plays to take advantage of that athleticism?

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but it fits in with not giving Ian a chance to play. If the staff can't figure out to get lobs to RJ in 20 games, why would they think of using Ian's athleticism and skills?

[dbestpro]

Some of you are giving Pop credit for finally figuring out how to run RJ with TP, but when you read about what happened in practice it sounds like TP and RJ had to figure things out on their own without any direction from Pop.

[wildbill2u]

Pop changes in small ways. I'm still not convinced he's not trying to make RJ into another Bruce Bowen. .

Pop's stability has been the best thing for the team when we were in our prime, but now that the situation has changed, Pop needs to find a way to adapt as well.

Pop has said several times when the RJ trade was made that he remembers him as a defensive stopper against the Spurs WHEN RJ FIRST CAME INTO THE LEAGUE.

I think he is trying to remold RJ into that player of some years ago. Maybe it can be done, but I've seen RJ stumble around like he's looking for his man too many times this season to be optimistic. I think he can be a good defensive player in our system because of his athleticism--but not a stopper like Bowen.

[SenorSpur]

this is a good point.

Keep in mind the recent article, if I read it right . . . it took 20 games for Parker and RJ to get together to work in a lob for RJ. 20 games without the coaching staff forcing the issue, and so it falls to TP and RJ?

And last year I was posting my disappointment that still holds is how backdoor lobs for George Hill were nowhere to be found. Hill had plenty of alley-oops in college, it seemed like half of the IUPUI game recaps had at least one. He had the athleticism, but where were these kinds of plays to take advantage of that athleticism?

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but it fits in with not giving Ian a chance to play. If the staff can't figure out to get lobs to RJ in 20 games, why would they think of using Ian's athleticism and skills?

On the contrary. I think you're barking up the right tree. If this story is true, I would ask, "what the hell took so long?" If this is true, I'm very disappointed that TP, as much as he bitched about the Spurs age and lack of athleticism (and he was correct in doing so), he couldn't find the time to have worked directly with RJ in practice to perfect such a play. He should have been the loudest proponent of getting RJ up to speed and, as PG of the team, he should've been the first one to sacrifice part of his offensive game to get this guy off and instill some confidence in him. I may be harsh on TP, but I see this as more his responsibility, especially since apparently Pop has allowed him more free reign over the offense this year.

Another point you brought up is also a salient one. If the Pop and crew couldn't figure out how to utilize an athletic, veteran, SF like RJ, I don't have confidence in their ability to incorporate the skills of Ian.

[objective]

FREE IAN MAHINMI !

Give us all a break, Pop.

McDyess couldn't even do the one thing he was counted on to do, hit open mid-range shots. Once again the Spurs had to resort to smallball.

Now is the perfect time to play Ian.

8 more games this month. 5 against sub-.500 teams, one .500 team, one team that's 12-11 in Miami, and one good winning team in Portland. The first 3 games of January before playing the Mavs are also sub-.500 teams. That's 11 games against only 2 legit teams.

The Spurs will have a good record against those teams whether or not McDyess disappears again or Bonner has a poor game or if Blair gets foul trouble, it doesn't matter.

FREE IAN. Salvage something. Swallow the same pride that very well could have cost the Spurs at least one more title by flushing Luis Scola down the toilet.

You're getting pathetic games from too many people? Shake it up a little and play your wildcard. It may be a brittle, foul prone rusty wildcard, but it's better than nothing.

FREE IAN MAHINMI !

And if he sucks the next 11 games, shut him down like you were going to do anyway.

[objective]

Well, looks like he was freed. But probably only to be dumped after a showcase. And that is a shame, but not unexpected from the team that probably cost itself at least one ring with how it handled Scola.

Even if Ian isn't dumped before the deadline, even with tonight's performance I find it hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel. Pop wasted all the opportunities to play him the other 34 games of the season to see what he had.

There's just no room for him. Even with his performance tonight. All that time was wasted while Bonner sat and Pop did his Pop routine of games where he'd announce that he wasn't going to play Theo even though he was active, sitting Duncan in the first only to play him hard for near normal minutes, the usual Pop stuff.

The rest of January they have 11 games, only two against sub-.500 teams. It took a home game versus the worst in the league for Ian to finally get some burn. Furthermore, it's only about one week or maybe two before Matt Bonner, the Prince of +/-, comes back. Pop won't sit him. He won't sit Blair. He probably won't sit McDyess (who led the team in +/- against the Mavs, if it was Bonner there would have been threads singing songs of legend about him).

Then the RRT, and no time to mess around.

Even if somehow a miracle happens and Ian plays the rest of the year . . . they can't re-sign him. Not with Splitter going to be eligible for full MLE (though I doubt he signs). Not with McDyess still under a near MLE deal. Not with Blair. And definately not with Bonner up for a new contract. That's about as close to a lock as there is.

But just to rehash what we saw tonight. Largely going up against one of the best young bigs in the league, Ian shined. 10 weeks of rust and he showed most of what had people excited about him in the first place, even with some small improvements.

His rebounding effort was better than I had him pegged at, he was aggressive on the defensive glass and assertive. He showed how he can run the floor and finish. He showed the shotblocking, the shot altering. He showed the mid-range jumper he displayed in Austin. He was marginally better now setting screens than he was before. He went up to finish strong.

He was very good out there without even showing the post play that he excelled at in D-League and showed some in SL while getting back in shape. And that might have been the best part of his entire set of skills, and he was good without even relying on it.

Was he perfect? Of course not. Several times on offense he looked out of place and confused as to where he was supposed to be. He had some bad fouls, though some of them were just ref whipping-boy fouls. He looked gassed. But after 10 weeks off, none of those things were shocking. Especially considering the career trajectory of many young bigs like I've laid out, such as Bynum and J. O'Neal.

I'm not saying Ian is a future all-star, or over-reacting to him like people did with PMB or Flight White or any other little used Spur of the past.

But any team that gets Ian will be getting good value, a no-risk high-reward player.

Good luck, Ian.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ian did show a lot, and like you, I've wanted to see him for a while now..his SL and training camp performances weren't even nearly bad enough for him not to have gotten a chance until now, especially since Haislip has been activated before him in games..

I tend to think that this is a showcase, but hopefully not..he still fits a glaring need for this team..

I don't think he's comparable to a guy like PMB at all, since Ian has much better physical tools, much better skills and didn't do this in garbage time tonight..

I hate the argument that he has too many bigs in front of him though..while that may be true and that's probably how Pop views it, none of those big men are valuable enough that they can't be benched for certain minutes when they struggle, which seems to happen a lot..

[callo1]

Ian being showcased a bit...trade incoming.

[Big P]

Ian being showcased a bit...trade incoming.

Did you come up with that all by yourself?:rolleyes

[Fabbs]

Warning: needlessly long screed ahead declaring the unleashing of Ian Mahinmi!

FREE IAN MAHINMI
Great post with irrefutable info.

[BOHOLANO#21]

agree. i have been hoping the day will come that ian mahinmi will get some playing time. i always hate when people think what popovich does is always right, but that dick is stubborn. mahinmi showed something tonite that popovich obviously never expected ...

[colargol]

There's two B2b coming and pop need duncan to rest...it's the right time to activate Ian

[Man In Black]

I remember when us old-skoolers used to think of Amal McCaskill as a defensive presence. We'd tell Pop to put in The Predator feeling that there were times he could affect a game.

But I see objective's point. An infusion of taller youth isn't a bad option in limited minutes. An unlike Haislip, Ian's been in the system for a few years now.

[objective]

lol, I never wanted Amal in a game, on ST or SR or even ranting on random internet boards.

I did however want Jackie Butler to get in a game, even though I was confident he was a fat bum who wasn't very good and let people know how little I thought of him. I still thought that during stretches when both Elson and Oberto were invisible that it was worth seeing what they had.

And unlike Jackie, Ian hasn't been a lardass or been accused of stealing some woman's coat. He's kept on working.

[objective]

alright Pop we all know you don't want to play Ian and he won't be a Spur next year.

We get it. He's the french 6-11 Hank Egan. You don't want nothing to do with him. Fine.

But if you're going to have Ratliff active and still play RJ and Finley at Power Forward while a 6-7 guy is manning the center spot . . .

Could you just activate Ian to give the fans something to watch during blowouts? You know, at least to make it worth watching?

Please?

[slick'81]

i didnt believe he existed until earlier this season now i say why the hell not?!?!

[timvp]

alright Pop we all know you don't want to play Ian and he won't be a Spur next year.

We get it. He's the french 6-11 Hank Egan. You don't want nothing to do with him. Fine.

But if you're going to have Ratliff active and still play RJ and Finley at Power Forward while a 6-7 guy is manning the center spot . . .

Could you just activate Ian to give the fans something to watch during blowouts? You know, at least to make it worth watching?

Please?

But, but, but ...

I got nothing, you win.

[MaNu4Tres]

What do we have to lose?

With the way things are, this group hasn't been successful the past 52 games.

It's time to make a little tweak and inject the roster with an athletic young big man for 15-20 minutes a night at the expense of the Red Rocket.

One can hope.

[benefactor]

No such luck.

[JiggaWhat99]

Give all od Bonner's min to Ian NOW!!!

[superjames1992]

Ian sure looked great out there tonight. He made some fantastic plays including a horrible defensive lapse and a bad walk.

[Obstructed_View]

Ian sure looked great out there tonight. He made some fantastic plays including a horrible defensive lapse and a bad walk.

And yet he managed to score the same number of points as three starters.

[spurtech09]

I wish

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ fans judging somebody in garbage time after he hasn't gotten to play for more than 3 minutes for over a month..

[Obstructed_View]

LOL @ fans judging somebody in garbage time after he hasn't gotten to play for more than 3 minutes for over a month..

LOL @ fans missing the fact that three starters scored 2 points each, and only one of them is a surprise.

[objective]

Mahinmi must be kept off the court no matter what, We already have our starters and are solid with the rotation -- :pop:

and I foresee a Hairston activation coming just in time to ensure that very thing.

[Blackjack]

Indeed ... free Ian Mahinmi.

It's really quite amusing (and by amusing, I mean: laughing to prevent one's self from removing their retinas with a wooden spoon while wearing kitten mittens) that Pop could go into the break and come out with a starting lineup that consists of Bonner and Bogans.

This team's stale, ill-fitted and not going anywhere, yet they still deem it necessary to keep shuffling chairs on the Titanic instead of seeing if there's anything left to be salvaged (as it pertains to this or next year).

Start Mahinmi -- get Malik in the rotation while you're at it.

You've tried everything else (all of which will put you in no better shape than you are currently), might as well infuse some youth and fresh air into the lineup that will, at the very least, get the attention of your team and change the dynamic.

There's absolutely no downside or anything suggesting they'd be any worse for wear with such approach . . .

[objective]

You've tried everything else (all of which will put you in no better shape than you are currently)

Well, I haven't tried this yet!

C - Bonner
PF - Finley
SF - Jefferson
SG - Bogans
PG - Mason

Sounds like a winner to me! -- :pop:

[Blackjack]

Damn Pop and his semantics . . .

[taps]

pop will keep him on ice until 2010 SL then determine he is not fit to play b/c h hasn't improved since 2009 SL - the last time he played basketball. We'll keep doing this til he is 34 then start him w/ george hill at the 4 and give him 38 mpg.