Ludden: West teams face long odds against Lakers

[duncan228]

West teams face long odds against Lakers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aur66Wjula2AT_1D1JImQBG8vLYF?slug=jy-lakers120709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
By Johnny Ludden

Kobe Bryant’s pass hung in the air for a moment, and then it was gone, disappearing into Andrew Bynum’s giant hands just long enough for him to viciously flush the ball through the rim. The Phoenix Suns’ center, Channing Frye, had raked Bynum with a foul, but no matter. On this night, Frye, like all of the Suns, could only stare hopelessly up at the Los Angeles Lakers.

The rest of the West knows the feeling. These days, the Lakers are playing above everyone’s heads. The Suns brought the conference’s second-best record into Staples Center Sunday night, and were dismissed with a thorough 108-88 beating. It was the Lakers’ ninth consecutive victory, and afterward one question bore asking:

Did the Lakers ever look this dominant last season?

“We’ve played the other teams,” Suns coach Alvin Gentry said, “and I think they’re by far the best team.”

By “other” Gentry meant the Boston Celtics, Orlando Magic and Cleveland Cavaliers, the East’s power triumvirate. Nearly a quarter of the schedule is gone, and the West has so far produced only the Denver Nuggets as legitimate challengers to the NBA’s defending champions. The Portland Trail Blazers just lost Greg Oden for the season. The San Antonio Spurs are hibernating again, only this winter no one knows if they’ll awake. And as well as the Dallas Mavericks have played, they just lost consecutive games to the Memphis Grizzlies and Atlanta Hawks.

As for any comparisons between the Suns and Lakers? Gentry said it best himself: “What we’re trying to do and what they’re trying to do are completely different things.”

The Lakers remain their own measuring stick, and they’ve already noticed growth since the end of last season. Simple math says two 7-footers are greater than one.

The Lakers lost Bynum midway through last season, and he wasn’t much help after returning for their playoff run. Pau Gasol then missed the first 11 games of this season. Only now are the Lakers building upon the potential they showed before Bynum went down.

“We can thank Memphis for that,” Gentry said.

The Grizzlies’ decision to trade Gasol to the Lakers nearly two years ago still burns rival coaches and executives. Now the Lakers have become as formidable as everyone in the West feared. That’s why the Suns gambled on Shaquille O’Neal, and it’s why small-market teams like the Spurs and Utah Jazz now feel compelled to pay hefty luxury-tax bills to try to close the talent gap.

More than ever, size matters against the Lakers. Bynum, Gasol and Lamar Odom are all long and athletic, and they can each pass. They also clean up each other’s mistakes. When Gasol stumbled and missed a layup early, Bynum rose over the Suns for the rebound and put-back.

“I wouldn’t give away our secrets,” Odom said, “but we like to get the ball inside.”

That’s why Oden’s knee injury could cripple any hopes Portland had of reaching the NBA Finals. Some scouts think the Blazers could settle into a better flow offensively without Oden, but this is also true: With their young center, the Blazers were one of the few teams with enough size to counter the Lakers. They’ll still be dangerous once Travis Outlaw returns, but losing a 7-footer who can defend and rebound against the Lakers’ big men is tough to overcome.

The Suns tried to compensate for their own mismatches with double-teams. The Lakers’ shooters then buried them from the outside.

“When you feel like you’re doing everything you can to try and compete and win, and your opponent just seems to be one step ahead of you and finding ways to do things easy, that can be frustrating,” Lakers guard Derek Fisher said. “We can do that to anybody if we’re focused and disciplined.”

Focus is sometimes still a problem for the Lakers, who admit they’ve benefitted from a cozy schedule that allows them to play 17 of their first 21 games at home. The Suns, in contrast, have already played 14 road games and Sunday’s visit – like their previous meeting with the Lakers – came at the end of a back-to-back.

“I want to see us do this on the road in tougher situations against teams that are ready to play,” Gasol said.

Toughness, however, doesn’t seem to be much of an issue with these Lakers. The Lakers were good last season, but also beatable. Now? Not so much. Having Bynum healthy helps, but so has the addition of Ron Artest. When Amar’e Stoudemire tried to make a simple outlet pass, Artest muscled up to him before finally flustering him into losing the ball. The turnover threw a charge into the Lakers, who pulled away for good.

“I don’t know where their weakness is,” Gentry said. “No one can be any more physical than they can. No one is more athletic than they are.”

This is what the rest of the West always feared. The Lakers are healthy, hungry, growing stronger by the week. Once again, everyone else is looking up.

[picc84]

lol "We can thank Memphis for that"

Coaches/players/gm's/fans still being pissed about Memphis and Gasol amuses me very much. Glorious.

Wait til they see what we're gonna pull at the deadline this year. Everyone is gonna shit bricks.

[badfish22]

lol "We can thank Memphis for that"

Coaches/players/gm's/fans still being pissed about Memphis and Gasol amuses me very much. Glorious.


Well that scam is still fucking things up.

[21_Blessings]

“We can thank Memphis for that,”


And Boston, Atlanta, Chicago are thanking Phoenix for Rondo, Johnson and Deng.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And Boston, Atlanta, Chicago are thanking Phoenix for Rondo, Johnson and Deng.

+1

Pretty hard to whine about that when you traded an expiring contract and two first round picks for NOTHING only a few months before the Gasol trade. Sarver only has himself to blame for why LA is so much better now, and the excuses like this keep coming.

[Culburn369]

And Boston, Atlanta, Chicago are thanking Phoenix for Rondo, Johnson and Deng.

Oh, my goodness, said out loud like that borders on criminal negligence.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Great plan though by the Suns' brass to blame the Gasol trade for everything that has gone wrong in Phoenix the last few years. I can't wait to go to a game and stare in amazement at the "We're sure we win a championship if not for the Gasol trade" banner hanging from the rafters.

[The Gemini Method]

I was shocked when the Suns traded Joe Johnson...I thought he should be the one that they should've built around...man, I had totally forgot about Rondo...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I was shocked when the Suns traded Joe Johnson...I thought he should be the one that they should've built around...man, I had totally forgot about Rondo...


And Rudy Fernandez.....and Kurt Thomas.....and the one that I think will sting the most, the Knicks' 2010 unprotected first round pick.

I wasn't too pissed off at their recent struggles, but this excuse making pisses me off to no end.

[Culburn369]

"I was shocked when the Suns traded Joe Johnson..."

& it was all over a measly $5 million dollars.

[Culburn369]

And Rudy Fernandez.....and Kurt Thomas.....and the one that I think will sting the most, the Knicks' 2010 unprotected first round pick.

Oh, my goodness once again.

[picc84]

If the Suns were owned by Mark Cuban or Jerry Buss they'd probably have a title by now.

Cheapest owner EVER.

[The Gemini Method]

They had a shot at Rudy F.? Wow, no wonder my friend, who is a lifetime Suns fan, hates Sarver...I did not know...

But hey, at least the Cardinals started the Brett Farve is the most giving in December phase...

[The Gemini Method]

If the Suns were owned by Mark Cuban or Jerry Buss they'd probably have a title by now.

Cheapest owner EVER.

You stop postin...Sarver is not as cheap as the owner of the team that shares the Staples Center--which, I may add is a disgrace for the Lakers ;)

[vicphoenix13]

"I was shocked when the Suns traded Joe Johnson..."

& it was all over a measly $5 million dollars.

Actually, Joe Johnson wanted out of Phoenix because he wanted an offense to run though him. He didn't like the fact that Nash, Amare and Marion were the main options.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Actually, Joe Johnson wanted out of Phoenix because he wanted an offense to run though him. He didn't like the fact that Nash, Amare and Marion were the main options.


Not really but then again that's the story the front office and AZCentral cooked up for fans to believe.

[mogrovejo]

Over-reactions.

[crc21209]

lol "We can thank Memphis for that"

Coaches/players/gm's/fans still being pissed about Memphis and Gasol amuses me very much. Glorious.

Wait til they see what we're gonna pull at the deadline this year. Everyone is gonna shit bricks.


:lol at Laker fans who think they can pull another deal like that...

[TheMACHINE]

wow..those are alot of key guys...i didnt really follow those trades much. Can you refresh my memory on the trades for rudy, rondo, jj, kurt, deng and knicks 2010 draft pick.

[TheMACHINE]

:lol at Laker fans who think they can pull another deal like that...

just wait when you see mayo for sasha soon. :downspin:

[picc84]

:lol at Laker fans who think they can pull another deal like that...

Maaaan are you gonna be salty. :lol

[Culburn369]

Actually, Joe Johnson wanted out of Phoenix because he wanted an offense to run though him. He didn't like the fact that Nash, Amare and Marion were the main options.

Uh, uh, Vic,,,,I know precisely where the bear shits in the buckwheat, keed. He didn't want to be fourth option AFTER Sarver wouldn't give him the aforementioned $5 million smackers.

[ginobili's bald spot]

:lol at Laker fans who think they can pull another deal like that...

They're fuckin with you man. Jokes.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

wow..those are alot of key guys...i didnt really follow those trades much. Can you refresh my memory on the trades for rudy, rondo, jj, kurt, deng and knicks 2010 draft pick.


When they traded Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to the Knicks during the 2003-2004 season, one of the things the Suns received their 2010 unprotected pick. They then traded that pick to the Jazz in order to unload Tom Gugliotta's contract (which was expiring at the end of the season) so Jerry Colangelo could save that much more money before he sold the team that off season. Cost cutting move that did nothing to improve the roster.

That off season, they wanted Andre Iguodala at #7 but didn't think he'd be available. The way Antoni works is he has a very short list of players he wants on draft night, and if none are there, he's too stubborn to draft someone else, so he sells the pick. He and the Colangelos agreed to draft Deng at #7 and then trade him to the Bulls for Chicago's 2005 first round pick. It turns out Iguodala was available at #7 anyway:bang. Also, Colangelo felt JJ didn't deserve the extension he wanted, so he decided to risk it and let JJ become a restritced FA next off season.

Then the 2005 off season hit after a 62 win season, they had the Bulls' pick (#21 overall) and decided to throw it in a trade with the Knicks since they didn't want to use it. So little do people know, Nate Robinson was also given away by Phoenix. In 2004, JJ wanted 6 years 50 million, but this off season Atlanta offered 5 years 70 million that Phoenix had the choice of matching. JJ felt insulted by the low ball offer Phoenix gave him, so he did everything he could to ensure they didn't match. They wound up signing and trading him for Diaw, Cleveland's 2006 first round pick, and ATL's first rounder that was lottery protected in 2006, top 3 protected in 2007, and unprotected after that.

2006 off season. They again have the #21 overall pick, and again Antoni had a very short list of players he wanted, Thabo Sefolosha topping the list. Since he wasn't there at 21, Antoni decided to use the pick to unload Brian Grant's contract (which wasn't very big at all, and was expiring a year from then). He agrees to draft Rondo and trade him to Boston.

2007 off season. ATL manages to get the #3 pick, which was terribly unfortunate cause if it was #4 or worse Phoenix would have had it. The 24 pick comes around, and none of the players Antoni loves are there, so he and Sarver agree to sell it to Portland and draft Rudy Fernandez for them, which is stupid cause if they draft Rudy they would gotten to wait a year to pay him. Later on, the Suns are beyond the luxury tax threshold, and Sarver wants to get below it cause he's a cheap fuck. Antoni says to him, "I'm not going to use Kurt Thomas, I regret using him against the Spurs. It goes against our philosophy. So Sarver goes to Kerr and says trade Kurt Thomas ASAP to a team with cap room, include draft picks if you have to, Antoni never uses those either.


That basically sums it up.

[urunobili]

Lakers are the best of the NBA... props to West and their fanbase :tu

[Culburn369]

Lakers are the best of the NBA... props to West and their fanbase :tu

Kupchak & Buss' kids as well. They undersold those kids. They laughed all the way to that dais in June, where Bill Russell was waitin', with the 15th, Jackson bearing witness with that X Cap.

[picc84]

When they traded Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to the Knicks during the 2003-2004 season, one of the things the Suns received their 2010 unprotected pick. They then traded that pick to the Jazz in order to unload Tom Gugliotta's contract (which was expiring at the end of the season) so Jerry Colangelo could save that much more money before he sold the team that off season. Cost cutting move that did nothing to improve the roster.

That off season, they wanted Andre Iguodala at #7 but didn't think he'd be available. The way Antoni works is he has a very short list of players he wants on draft night, and if none are there, he's too stubborn to draft someone else, so he sells the pick. He and the Colangelos agreed to draft Deng at #7 and then trade him to the Bulls for Chicago's 2005 first round pick. It turns out Iguodala was available at #7 anyway:bang. Also, Colangelo felt JJ didn't deserve the extension he wanted, so he decided to risk it and let JJ become a restritced FA next off season.

Then the 2005 off season hit after a 62 win season, they had the Bulls' pick (#21 overall) and decided to throw it in a trade with the Knicks since they didn't want to use it. So little do people know, Nate Robinson was also given away by Phoenix. In 2004, JJ wanted 6 years 50 million, but this off season Atlanta offered 5 years 70 million that Phoenix had the choice of matching. JJ felt insulted by the low ball offer Phoenix gave him, so he did everything he could to ensure they didn't match. They wound up signing and trading him for Diaw, Cleveland's 2006 first round pick, and ATL's first rounder that was lottery protected in 2006, top 3 protected in 2007, and unprotected after that.

2006 off season. They again have the #21 overall pick, and again Antoni had a very short list of players he wanted, Thabo Sefolosha topping the list. Since he wasn't there at 21, Antoni decided to use the pick to unload Brian Grant's contract (which wasn't very big at all, and was expiring a year from then). He agrees to draft Rondo and trade him to Boston.

2007 off season. ATL manages to get the #3 pick, which was terribly unfortunate cause if it was #4 or worse Phoenix would have had it. The 24 pick comes around, and none of the players Antoni loves are there, so he and Sarver agree to sell it to Portland and draft Rudy Fernandez for them, which is stupid cause if they draft Rudy they would gotten to wait a year to pay him. Later on, the Suns are beyond the luxury tax threshold, and Sarver wants to get below it cause he's a cheap fuck. Antoni says to him, "I'm not going to use Kurt Thomas, I regret using him against the Spurs. It goes against our philosophy. So Sarver goes to Kerr and says trade Kurt Thomas ASAP to a team with cap room, include draft picks if you have to, Antoni never uses those either.


That basically sums it up.


Holee shit, the Suns are like the entire league's version of Santa Claus. :lmao

[chubster]

:lol at Laker fans who think they can pull another deal like that...
Derek Fisher left 3 million on the table to join LA
Trevor Ariza for Brian Cook
Shannon Brown for Radmanovic
Sign former DPOY with MLE money

Those are top grades acquisitions from Mitch Kupchak. Outside of his early blunders (Shaq trade/Kwame trade) he's been tearing the league up.

[mystargtr34]

Ill admit it would have been good to see the West if that Gasol trade never went down. There would have been 5-6 teams that could have come out. Denver, Dallas, San An, LA, Portland, Utah, Phoenix. They all would have had a shot at at least making the WCF, and going to the Finals. Now, only one or two of those teams has any sort of chance, in a major upset. Great for Laker fans, but for everyone else... it takes alot of the fun out of it.

Then again, if the Spurs got Gasol for Thomas + Oberto and a couple of picks - i probably wouldnt be comlpaining either.

[pauls931]

Great plan though by the Suns' brass to blame the Gasol trade for everything that has gone wrong in Phoenix the last few years. I can't wait to go to a game and stare in amazement at the "We're sure we win a championship if not for the Gasol trade" banner hanging from the rafters.

I didn't know Gasol played for the Spurs. Damn you Gasol!!!

[SenorSpur]

As much as I hate to admit it, the Fakers are really chewing up the competition, at this point

[chubster]

Ill admit it would have been good to see the West if that Gasol trade never went down. There would have been 5-6 teams that could have come out. Denver, Dallas, San An, LA, Portland, Utah, Phoenix. They all would have had a shot at at least making the WCF, and going to the Finals. Now, only one or two of those teams has any sort of chance, in a major upset. Great for Laker fans, but for everyone else... it takes alot of the fun out of it.

Then again, if the Spurs got Gasol for Thomas + Oberto and a couple of picks - i probably wouldnt be comlpaining either.
72-10 Bulls team seemed to boost the league's attendance and popularity so even if the Lakers emerge this season as a force that dominant (which I highly doubt), it will still be a good thing for NBA.

[Muser]

I didn't know Gasol played for the Spurs. Damn you Gasol!!!


?

[picc84]

He means the Gasol trade isn't the reason the Spurs wiped the floor with the Suns, so they're complaining about something that didnt directly affect them.

[Culburn369]

Great for Laker fans, but for everyone else... it takes alot of the fun out of it.

Oh, yeah, it was a lot of fun watching everybody harp on Daddy rang/sans Kobe.

:rolleyes

[21_Blessings]

Or watching the most boring team in basketball history win the ship in 03/05/07. The Spurs should be strung up and flayed after the abomination which was the 07 NBA finals.

[pauls931]

lol "We can thank Memphis for that"

Coaches/players/gm's/fans still being pissed about Memphis and Gasol amuses me very much. Glorious.

Wait til they see what we're gonna pull at the deadline this year. Everyone is gonna shit bricks.

Farmar for Chris Paul, then bring CP3 off the bench?

[Chieflion]

Or watching the most boring team in basketball history win the ship in 03/05/07. The Spurs should be strung up and flayed after the abomination which was the 07 NBA finals.
The Cavs sucked, not the Spurs' fault.

[Culburn369]

Or watching the most boring team in basketball history win the ship in 03/05/07. The Spurs should be strung up and flayed after the abomination which was the 07 NBA finals.

Amen Brother 21.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Or watching the most boring team in basketball history win the ship in 03/05/07. The Spurs should be strung up and flayed after the abomination which was the 07 NBA finals.


I blame Detroit for imploding against Cleveland. Detroit vs. San Antonio would have gone to at worst 5 or 6 games and would have at least been a competitive series without games that were over by halftime. I remember when Duncan missed an ally-oop early in game 1 of that series and had a big smirk on his face like it was a preseason game.

[picc84]

Farmar for Chris Paul, then bring CP3 off the bench?

Yep, we'd need Fish's steadying hand on the first unit. CP3 can share ballhandling duties with Vujacic and Shannon running the second.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I still think the heist for LA this year will be Nelson getting drunk and trading Anthony Morrow (during a bad shooting stretch even though Morrow is the best young shooter in basketball) and Speedy Claxton's expiring contract for The Machine. Vujacic seems like a "shooter" Nelson's ego believes he can turn into an all star, while the alcohol makes him forget how good Morrow has been.

[The Gemini Method]

Yep, we'd need Fish's steadying hand on the first unit. CP3 can share ballhandling duties with Vujacic and Shannon running the second.

I don't think CP3's ego would allow him to take a backseat to anyone especially D. Fish. As much as that dream scenario would be titilating to behold, I would have to say CP3 starts and Derek Fisher is the 2nd off the bench. There probably wont be any major moves made by the Lakers this year, but you never can tell.

[TheMACHINE]

When they traded Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to the Knicks during the 2003-2004 season, one of the things the Suns received their 2010 unprotected pick. They then traded that pick to the Jazz in order to unload Tom Gugliotta's contract (which was expiring at the end of the season) so Jerry Colangelo could save that much more money before he sold the team that off season. Cost cutting move that did nothing to improve the roster.

That off season, they wanted Andre Iguodala at #7 but didn't think he'd be available. The way Antoni works is he has a very short list of players he wants on draft night, and if none are there, he's too stubborn to draft someone else, so he sells the pick. He and the Colangelos agreed to draft Deng at #7 and then trade him to the Bulls for Chicago's 2005 first round pick. It turns out Iguodala was available at #7 anyway:bang. Also, Colangelo felt JJ didn't deserve the extension he wanted, so he decided to risk it and let JJ become a restritced FA next off season.

Then the 2005 off season hit after a 62 win season, they had the Bulls' pick (#21 overall) and decided to throw it in a trade with the Knicks since they didn't want to use it. So little do people know, Nate Robinson was also given away by Phoenix. In 2004, JJ wanted 6 years 50 million, but this off season Atlanta offered 5 years 70 million that Phoenix had the choice of matching. JJ felt insulted by the low ball offer Phoenix gave him, so he did everything he could to ensure they didn't match. They wound up signing and trading him for Diaw, Cleveland's 2006 first round pick, and ATL's first rounder that was lottery protected in 2006, top 3 protected in 2007, and unprotected after that.

2006 off season. They again have the #21 overall pick, and again Antoni had a very short list of players he wanted, Thabo Sefolosha topping the list. Since he wasn't there at 21, Antoni decided to use the pick to unload Brian Grant's contract (which wasn't very big at all, and was expiring a year from then). He agrees to draft Rondo and trade him to Boston.

2007 off season. ATL manages to get the #3 pick, which was terribly unfortunate cause if it was #4 or worse Phoenix would have had it. The 24 pick comes around, and none of the players Antoni loves are there, so he and Sarver agree to sell it to Portland and draft Rudy Fernandez for them, which is stupid cause if they draft Rudy they would gotten to wait a year to pay him. Later on, the Suns are beyond the luxury tax threshold, and Sarver wants to get below it cause he's a cheap fuck. Antoni says to him, "I'm not going to use Kurt Thomas, I regret using him against the Spurs. It goes against our philosophy. So Sarver goes to Kerr and says trade Kurt Thomas ASAP to a team with cap room, include draft picks if you have to, Antoni never uses those either.


That basically sums it up.

damn all that and all they came up with was Shaq...and now he's gone =P

[mystargtr34]

Or watching the most boring team in basketball history win the ship in 03/05/07. The Spurs should be strung up and flayed after the abomination which was the 07 NBA finals.

But the Lakers run to their 2009 default championship was thrilling for all the neutrals because theres nothing more exciting than seeing all of the other contenders missing their best players.

[TheMACHINE]

But the Lakers run to their 2009 default championship was thrilling for all the neutrals because theres nothing more exciting than seeing all of the other contenders missing their best players.

fortunately most people watched because of the Laker players not the other teams players.

[milkshakeballa]

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/gunrangerphotos123/robo_fap.gif

[cobbler]

But the Lakers run to their 2009 default championship was thrilling for all the neutrals because theres nothing more exciting than seeing all of the other contenders missing their best players.

Sour grapes!

Injuries are a part of the game. I didn't hear all this moaning when Magic and Scott went down allowing the Pistons to win the title. Or how about Jordans first title when Worthy and Scott got injured. Or Malone in 2004. Bynum and Ariza in 2008.

But it sure gets brought up when the Lakers win. And even more so when the Spurs get injured and lose. Then its just another excuse on the long list of excuses. You can go upstairs and see them already being formulated a quarter into the season.

[Chieflion]

Sour grapes!

Injuries are a part of the game. I didn't hear all this moaning when Magic and Scott went down allowing the Pistons to win the title. Or how about Jordans first title when Worthy and Scott got injured. Or Malone in 2004. Bynum and Ariza in 2008.

But it sure gets brought up when the Lakers win. And even more so when the Spurs get injured and lose. Then its just another excuse on the long list of excuses. You can go upstairs and see them already being formulated a quarter into the season.
To be fair, in 1988, Isiah Thomas did get injured in the finals. The Bulls were up 3-1 before Scott and Worthy missed the whole game. Malone would not have helped the Lakers beat the rolling Pistons.

[cobbler]

To be fair, in 1988, Isiah Thomas did get injured in the finals. The Bulls were up 3-1 before Scott and Worthy missed the whole game. Malone would not have helped the Lakers beat the rolling Pistons.

No doubt about it. Isiah hurting his ankle definetly helped in 88. That was my point. Magic and Scott were injured in 89. Injuries happen. Worthy and Scott were hurt in game 4 of 99. Losing 2 starters mid series has an impact. Malone (and I have always detested him) was the glue for that 2004 Laker team. Would they have won with him? We will never know. Doesn't matter. It is what it is. Again, injuries happen. My point was you don't hear how the Pistons and Bulls titles were tainted because of them but it is brought up all the time about last years. Go figure...

[024]

The San Antonio Spurs are hibernating again, only this winter no one knows if they’ll awake.
:depressed

[Chillen]

Teams have every right to still complain, this shattered alot of teams hopes and dreams. Memphis just gave away their best player for Kwame Brown. This was so lopsided. If they traded Gasol today to Detroit for Kwame Brown it would make Detroit better and a playoff team and the Lakers would be good but not a real threat to win the NBA title. This is what Kobe needed and he got it. And look what has happened, back to back NBA finals and 1 NBA title for the Los Angeles Lakers.

[Culburn369]

Stings, don't it?

[mystargtr34]

Sour grapes!

Injuries are a part of the game. I didn't hear all this moaning when Magic and Scott went down allowing the Pistons to win the title. Or how about Jordans first title when Worthy and Scott got injured. Or Malone in 2004. Bynum and Ariza in 2008.

But it sure gets brought up when the Lakers win. And even more so when the Spurs get injured and lose. Then its just another excuse on the long list of excuses. You can go upstairs and see them already being formulated a quarter into the season.

It was more of a troll response to the troll.

[Ice009]

lol "We can thank Memphis for that"

Coaches/players/gm's/fans still being pissed about Memphis and Gasol amuses me very much. Glorious.

Wait til they see what we're gonna pull at the deadline this year. Everyone is gonna shit bricks.

LOL I told you all that no one agrees with that trade.

It has skewed EVERYTHING and allowed LA to be an elite again with out working as hard as they should have for it.

FUCKING joke of a trade.

[Culburn369]

"You can go upstairs and see them already being formulated a quarter into the season"

Those poor schleps.

[Culburn369]

LOL I told you no one agrees with that trade.

It has skewed EVERYTHING and allowed LA to be an elite again with out working as hard as they should have for it.

FUCKING joke of a trade.

Stings, don't it?

Tougheth lucketh.

[Ice009]

Stings, don't it?

Tougheth lucketh.

LOL I know that if the Spurs got Gasol instead that you guys would have been crying for a long time, so no it does not sting. You should have had to keep building and looking for pieces, but you got the last piece gift wrapped.

You got the fucker and didn't have to work as hard as you should have, but now we all gotta man up and play I guess.

[Culburn369]

That's the spirit: "man up and play I guess."

Atta boy.

[Ice009]

That's the spirit: "man up and play I guess."

Atta boy.

I prefer beating teams at full strength. I would have loved a crack at the Lakers the last two seasons with our line up fully healthy. I still want a crack at them this season.

[Culburn369]

I prefer beating teams at full strength. I would have loved a crack at the Lakers the last two seasons with our line up fully healthy. I still want a crack at them this season.

"full strength"---"fully healthy":rolleyes

[Ice009]

"full strength"---"fully healthy":rolleyes

lol Bynum doesn't count in 2008, Gasol trade evened it out.

[mojorizen7]

As for any comparisons between the Suns and Lakers? Gentry said it best himself: “What we’re trying to do and what they’re trying to do are completely different things.”
No shit Gentry, really? I think that statement qualifies over the past several years don't you?....and you can substitute the word "they" with any basketball team thats actually won a title over that period of time.
:wakeup

[TheManFromAcme]

"full strength"---"fully healthy":rolleyes

Cul with the textbook "Hook-Line-and-Sinker.....

:lol

[2Cleva]

http://rlv.zcache.com/quit_your_crying_or_ill_give_you_something_to_cry_ card-p137007394625541208qi0i_400.jpg

[Culburn369]

lol Bynum doesn't count in 2008, Gasol trade evened it out.

I wouldn't know. I don't injuries. It's my religion.

[picc84]

I don't think CP3's ego would allow him to take a backseat to anyone especially D. Fish. As much as that dream scenario would be titilating to behold, I would have to say CP3 starts and Derek Fisher is the 2nd off the bench. There probably wont be any major moves made by the Lakers this year, but you never can tell.

Ok, CP can start but as long as he knows he isnt going to get a lot of minutes and will sit for Fish in the 4th. He'll be a good mentor for Farmar and can lead cheering from the bench.

[picc84]

But the Lakers run to their 2009 default championship was thrilling for all the neutrals because theres nothing more exciting than seeing all of the other contenders missing their best players.

Yeah, we learned that in 2003. :lmao

[The Gemini Method]

Good to see the Gasol trade/heist/plunder/robbery is still wrecking havoc over opposing fans' psyches...

[cobbler]

Teams have every right to still complain, this shattered alot of teams hopes and dreams. Memphis just gave away their best player for Kwame Brown. This was so lopsided. If they traded Gasol today to Detroit for Kwame Brown it would make Detroit better and a playoff team and the Lakers would be good but not a real threat to win the NBA title. This is what Kobe needed and he got it. And look what has happened, back to back NBA finals and 1 NBA title for the Los Angeles Lakers.

Not true... they traded for Kwames expiring contract which would allow them the flexibility to obtain others ALONG with several draft picks and Marc Gasol. Have you seen what he's doing this year? Everyone who has blasted the Grizz for being so incompetent and look at them now. They have a core group of very young and talented players.

:whine

[cobbler]

LOL I told you all that no one agrees with that trade.

It has skewed EVERYTHING and allowed LA to be an elite again with out working as hard as they should have for it.

FUCKING joke of a trade.

But wait... You got Dick! :lol

[Allanon]

I've been preaching for over a year now, the Grizzlies made out like bandits.



Maybe most impressive about this Grizzlies win was that they did it without an impressive night from MARC Gasol, who has been the Grizzlies' MVP this season.

Gasol came into Tuesday 26th in PER. Even on what was a tough night against a physical Cavs team, Gasol made his impact with two key buckets late on hook shots, along with eight rebounds and four assists.

His (Marc Gasol) all-around game is reminiscent of a nastier version of his All-Star brother, complete with man-beard.

[O.J Mayo]

I've been preaching for over a year now, the Grizzlies made out like bandits.
First of all, I am the MVP of the Grizzlies. Marc Gasol is just the means to the end. You don't see him take the clutch shots. Your avatar and sig is gay in general cause it is about Kobe Bryant. Nothing is more gay than Kobe Bryant, except for Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton. Laker fans supporting Laker fags, gay and worthless. If I get traded there, I wouldn't report to Hollywood, where gay happens. Besides, why would you bring up Marc Gasol's beard, if you are not gay enough already, Laker fags like you just want to see Kobe grow the beard again, because Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic aren't gonna be growing beards anytime soon.

[mystargtr34]

I've been preaching for over a year now, the Grizzlies made out like bandits.

You preach alot of things that no body else agrees with. But whatever makes you feel better about the trade.

[Allanon]

You preach alot of things that no body else agrees with. But whatever makes you feel better about the trade.

Lot's of people don't agree. But I make them look stupid down the road.

'Specially the Bynum haters...could be pretty embarrassing for some ST'ers if I dig up those threads. :lol

[Allanon]

First of all, I am the MVP of the Grizzlies. Marc Gasol is just the means to the end. You don't see him take the clutch shots. Your avatar and sig is gay in general cause it is about Kobe Bryant. Nothing is more gay than Kobe Bryant, except for Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton. Laker fans supporting Laker fags, gay and worthless. If I get traded there, I wouldn't report to Hollywood, where gay happens. Besides, why would you bring up Marc Gasol's beard, if you are not gay enough already, Laker fags like you just want to see Kobe grow the beard again, because Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic aren't gonna be growing beards anytime soon.

Well, you've been so shitty at trolling that I've figured out who your real user name is. You're the same little bitter bitch you've always been.

So stop being a little Spurfan bitch and use your real nickname. :lol

[mystargtr34]

Lot's of people don't agree. But I make them look stupid down the road.

'Specially the Bynum haters...could be pretty embarrassing for some ST'ers if I dig up those threads. :lol

Its a Spurs board, so there's gonne be alot of trash talking going on of opposing players. I mean, one guy said Bynum's worst case scenario is a more explosive Tim Duncan. I garuantee you 99.9% of people here would take Bynum on their team, but they wont say that when there are some Laker-fans gloating about how he can be better than David Robinson.

[Allanon]

Its a Spurs board, so there's gonne be alot of trash talking going on of opposing players. I mean, one guy said Bynum's worst case scenario is a more explosive Tim Duncan. I garuantee you 99.9% of people here would take Bynum on their team, but they wont say that when there are some Laker-fans gloating about how he can be better than David Robinson.

I know this.

This isn't any different than people insisting the Grizzlies got ripped off. Marc Gasol's one of the best Centers in the West.

He's a much better fit for the Grizz young core and their salary than 30 year old/$16 million Pau.

But because it's a Spurs board, nobody's gonna say the Grizzlies made off like Bandits. Rather, the Lakers robbed the Grizz.

Time will prove me right yet again but nobody's gonna admit it.

[mystargtr34]

I know this.

This isn't any different than people insisting the Grizzlies got ripped off. Marc Gasol's one of the best Centers in the West.

He's a much better fit for the Grizz young core and their salary than 30 year old/$16 million Pau.

But because it's a Spurs board, nobody's gonna say the Grizzlies made off like Bandits. Rather, the Lakers robbed the Grizz.

Time will prove me right yet again but nobody's gonna admit it.

Ok, well im not going to get into another Gasol trade tirade...people have drawn their own conclusions.

[Ice009]

I've been preaching for over a year now, the Grizzlies made out like bandits.

The Grizzles did not make out like bandits you silly fuck.

Gasol was a throw in, who just happened to become a better player a couple of years later than everyone thought.

The trade at the time was a trade for rubbish players.

[Allanon]

The Grizzles did not make out like bandits you silly fuck.

Gasol was a throw in, who just happened to be a lot better than everyone thought.

The trade at the time was a trade for rubbish players.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The Grizzlies specifically asked for Marc Gasol.

The Grizz got:

1) $15 million Salary Cap relief
2) 2 1st round draft picks
3) Marc Gasol (which according to that ESPN article is a younger "nastier" Pau Gasol)

It won't be long before Marc makes the All Star team.

How is that NOT making out like bandits you silly bitch?

[z0sa]

I love how the Grizzlies lucked into getting a good player in the trade yet somehow that means it wasn't a completely unfair trade at the time it was made.

[Ice009]

What the fuck are you talking about?

The Grizzlies specifically asked for Marc Gasol.

The Grizz got:

1) $15 million Salary Cap relief
2) 2 1st round draft picks
3) Marc Gasol (which according to that ESPN article is a younger "nastier" Pau Gasol)

It won't be long before Marc makes the All Star team.

How is that NOT making out like bandits you silly bitch?

It was a lopsided trade and you know it.

I said Gasol was a throw in because he was not in the NBA. I guess poor choice of words on that one.

So now you are saying that the trade was all for Marc Gasol? I thought the story was salary cap reasons the trade was made. So now you are saying it was for Marc Gasol, not salary cap reasons?

Why would the Grizzlies do that only to end up with Marc Gasol, who is not an All-Star and then trade for Zack Randolph. That's a bad deal.

I've had enough of you Allanon. You are a controlled troll. You try and build up a nice guy reputation and then pick and choose when to troll very carefully. That is exactly what you are doing in this thread. Trolling.

[Allanon]

It was a lopsided trade and you know it.

I said Gasol was a throw in because he was not in the NBA. I guess poor choice of words on that one.

So now you are saying that the trade was all for Marc Gasol? I thought the story was salary cap reasons the trade was made. So now you are saying it was for Marc Gasol, not salary cap reasons?

Why would the Grizzlies do that only to end up with Marc Gasol, who is not an All-Star and then trade for Zack Randolph. That's a bad deal.

Don't be stupid. I've said this shit for over a year now. I saw the talent in Marc Gasol and I said it. He was beasting in Europe and became MVP.

I can give you a free pass for thinking at the time it was a lopsided trade. Not many people can see talent.

But now even with the given results and you still think it was lopsided is just plain idiocy.



I've had enough of you Allanon. You are a controlled troll. You try and build up a nice guy reputation and then pick and choose when to troll very carefully. That is exactly what you are doing in this thread. Trolling.

Pick and choose my ass, check the threads or ask your Spurs fellows. I've been saying this same story about Marc Gasol for over a year now. I've even argued with my fellow Laker fans over it.

I''ve had enough of you Ice009, you pretend to be knowledgeable but you're really just a hater.

[bostonguy]

I gotta side with Allanon on this. He has said it for quite sometime that Marc Gasol would be a damn good player.

[HarlemHeat37]

To be fair, Laker fans were obviously pimping their "prospects" to make the trade look better..they were also heavily hyping Crittenton, and he's worse than a scrub at this point..so 1/2..

[picc84]

Ever since the Gasol trade my grocery bill has more than halved. The anger and pain seems to nourish me.

[mystargtr34]

Ever since the Gasol trade my grocery bill has more than halved. The anger and pain seems to nourish me.

Where do you keep your ring?

[TD 21]

I've never understood why Lakers fans argue this deal. It's not about what Gasol (Marc) has turned into, it's what his value was at the time. At the time, he was an unathletic, overweight, out of shape center who people projected as a competent backup at this level because of his size and skill. Some said at the time that he's not a lock to stick in the league, though. Crittenton was a project right from the jump and projected as an off the bench combo guard (think poor man's Crawford) if he reached his potential. In addition to the 1st round pick that was thrown in (essentially meaningless, because of how low it was destined to be), there was very little cumulative value in this deal. In return, they got a big man as skilled as any in the league not named Duncan, who was just entering his prime.

We know the Grizzlies did this for "cap related purposes", but if you don't think there was something else at work behind the scenes on this, then you're in denial and niave. It's not just the West connection between the two franchises; the league had to have played a roll in this. Most of the rest of the league didn't even know about it in advance or have time to put together a package and because of that to this day they're still furious. Think about that for a second: how often are teams openly furious about a trade when it occurs? What about going on 2 years later? Unheard of. What likely happened is the league saw their marquee franchise off to a surprising start and knew that if that team had a competent 2nd star (mainly up front) that they'd have a chance to contend, which meant having them on national TV more, which leads to more ratings and subsequently more money for the league. Bryant was one of their two marquee players and they didn't want the remainder of his prime spent on a team toiling in mediocrity.

[Capt Bringdown]

The Gasol trade did what it was intended to do, end the Spurs championship run and install the Lakers as the default champions for the next few years.

That's showbiz.

The NBA wants to sell certain narratives, and that's what they do best. They don't know how to sell anything else than big stories. And the biggest story they like to sell is the GOAT, as in tune in to watch the GOAT team, with the GOAT player, the GOAT coach, the GOAT rivalry etc.

They don't know how to market anything else.

[TD 21]

The Gasol trade did what it was intended to do, end the Spurs championship run and install the Lakers as the default champions for the next few years.

That's showbiz.

This is a much more efficient way of saying what I just said. Well done.

Forgot to comment on Ludden...I know Spurs fans like him because he used to be a beat writer for the team and give good inside information, but this guy is one of the bigger Lakers ass kissers that I've come across (Adande, Rosen, etc.) and that's saying something. He's written I believe 4 articles since the season started: one was about the Spurs, the other 3 about the Lakers and they're all filled with the usual incessant slobbering, as if they're the greatest team he's ever seen and unbeatable. It's funny how when the Lakers are on top, they're unbeatable and historically great; when the Spurs are on top, they're always vulnerable.

[Culburn369]

6 points in the 4th quarter.

tee, hee.

[picc84]

I recognize that the deal was one-sided, ludicrous, and comically absurd. I just don't give a fuck. :lol

What do you want us to do, say sorry? Gotdamn you sound like vaginas.

*gasol shoots J in Duncans face*

"Gee golly, i'm sorry guys, I feel horrible, tell Timmy we'll be sending a gift basket with redeemable cards to Red Lobster, maybe that will take some of this unbearable guilt away!"

*Gasol slam dunks in Howards face for championship*

"Gosh-diddily-arnit, that just grinds my gears, I wish they'd take every point Pau scores off the board and donate it to charity, maybe the Spurs 'We-wish-it'd-been-us' Foundation, I just feel miserable guys, really."

I mean really, trying to make Laker fans feel bad about it is like trying to make a lottery winner feel bad about winning the megamillions while you're sitting in your trailer eating frank and beans watching reruns of Golden Girls. For 3 years. Really just not worth your time.

[Allanon]

I've never understood why Lakers fans argue this deal. It's not about what Gasol (Marc) has turned into, it's what his value was at the time.

1. Not Laker fans, Laker fan...I've been the only one saying this for over a year now.

2. Teams trade for potential. Especially a young rebuilding team like the Grizz. At the time of the trade, Marc was beasting in Europe and became MVP. Pau didn't fit because of his age and salary. Marc was the perfect fit for them.

3. Spurs fans of all people, should know how hard it is to get a great Big man like Marc Gasol...he should be getting no less than $13 million for the stats he's putting up right now instead of a rookie contract.

4. And you say what his trade value was at the time. I can understand if you felt it was robbery back then. Not many people can see potential in overseas players. People see Splitter as a savior but didn't extend Marc Gasol that same courtesy. But the value of the trade should now be clearly evident to you.

Looking back at it today, there was no highway robbery done here.

With Marc being much younger than Pau, non Laker fans should be thanking the Grizzlies for cock-blocking the Lakers from having 2 of the best big men for the next 10 years.

[TD 21]

I recognize that the deal was one-sided, ludicrous, and comically absurd. I just don't give a fuck. :lol

What do you want us to do, say sorry? Gotdamn you sound like vaginas.

*gasol shoots J in Duncans face*

"Gee golly, i'm sorry guys, I feel horrible, tell Timmy we'll be sending a gift basket with redeemable cards to Red Lobster, maybe that will take some of this unbearable guilt away!"

*Gasol slam dunks in Howards face for championship*

"Gosh-diddily-arnit, that just grinds my gears, I wish they'd take every point Pau scores off the board and donate it to charity, maybe the Spurs 'We-wish-it'd-been-us' Foundation, I just feel miserable guys, really."

I mean really, trying to make Laker fans feel bad about it is like trying to make a lottery winner feel bad about winning the megamillions while you're sitting in your trailer eating frank and beans watching reruns of Golden Girls. For 3 years. Really just not worth your time.

I got no problem with this attitude and am not trying to make Lakers fans feel guilty because of it. In fact, this is the attitude that Lakers fans should have ... not this boastful, we're-better-than-everyone-else act. Everyone knows that the Spurs did things better than anyone else in the past decade; shady trades altering who wins more titles in the decade doesn't change that.

[Ice009]

To be fair, Laker fans were obviously pimping their "prospects" to make the trade look better..they were also heavily hyping Crittenton, and he's worse than a scrub at this point..so 1/2..

Exactly. I still don't give any Lakers fan a pass because Crittenton was hyped up as much or maybe more than Gasol. They were hyping the shit out of most of those players and wow they got one half right, because Gasol is not currently an All-Star so again that is wrong. Saying he will be an All Star doesn't mean shit until he actually does it.

How did the All-Star Crittenton turn out? What a joke.

[Ice009]

I got no problem with this attitude and am not trying to make Lakers fans feel guilty because of it. In fact, this is the attitude that Lakers fans should have ... not this boastful, we're-better-than-everyone-else act. Everyone knows that the Spurs did things better than anyone else in the past decade; shady trades altering who wins more titles in the decade doesn't change that.

lol at least that guy admits it. I am OK with a post like that too.

I am not looking for the bullshit Allanon is trying to pass around "The Grizzlies made out like bandits".

[Allanon]

I got no problem with this attitude and am not trying to make Lakers fans feel guilty because of it. In fact, this is the attitude that Lakers fans should have ... not this boastful, we're-better-than-everyone-else act. Everyone knows that the Spurs did things better than anyone else in the past decade; shady trades altering who wins more titles in the decade doesn't change that.

At least you said it nicely. Props TD21.

Too bad that stupid fuck Ice009 couldn't be as civil.

[TD 21]

1. Not Laker fans, Laker fan...I've been the only one saying this for over a year now.

2. Teams trade for potential. Especially a young rebuilding team like the Grizz. At the time of the trade, Marc was beasting in Europe and became MVP. Pau didn't fit because of his age and salary. Marc was the perfect fit for them.

3. Spurs fans of all people, should know how hard it is to get a great Big man like Marc Gasol...he should be getting no less than $13 million for the stats he's putting up right now instead of a rookie contract.

4. And you say what his trade value was at the time. I can understand if you felt it was robbery back then. Not many people can see potential in overseas players. People see Splitter as a savior but didn't extend Marc Gasol that same courtesy. But the value of the trade should now be clearly evident to you.

Looking back at it today, there was no highway robbery done here.

With Marc being much younger than Pau, non Laker fans should be thanking the Grizzlies for cock-blocking the Lakers from having 2 of the best big men for the next 10 years.

No, Lakers fanS. You're not the only one, you're one of many. Because I've seen many attempt to defend this trade and I just don't get it.

I just explained what was thought to be the upside for both Gasol and Crittenton in the previous post. Those two, plus the 1st round picks cumulative upside did not equal any more than half of Gasol's worth. There were questions about Gasol's athleticism and conditioning and where his sheer size and skill would be enough in the NBA. Obviously, he's in much better shape now and proving otherwise. But like I said, you have to take things for what they were at the time of the deal.

The words "great" and "Marc Gasol" should never be used in the same sentence. Most overused word in sports: great. Duncan is great, Bryant is great, Marc Gasol...not so much. $13 million? $10, max.

Except for the fact that Bynum and Gasol would have a difficult time playing extended minutes together defensively because neither could effectively guard power forwards.

Let me ask you: what are you attempting to justify this trade? There is no justification. Just because it turns out that the Grizzlies got some value out of it does not mean there wasn't any wrongdoing here. Not alerting other teams beforehand is suspicious enough. Then you throw in the fact that he was dealt to the league's marquee franchise, which was one impact player away from being back among the league's elite...it's just all too convenient.

[Killakobe81]

Let me say this trade was not Highway robbery ...butGrizz did not make out like bandits I would say Lakers win trade 70 - 30 because we have a title but this can change If Marc continues to develop ...plus cap space didnt get them much and critt was traded ...

[Killakobe81]

But I really Like Marc Gasol ...no lie ... he's on my fantasy team ...and not sure of All-star but he is borderline like a bigger Scola ...

[milkshakeballa]

Wow...ok let me chime in here

If you spurs fans TRULY and 100% BELIEVED the league influenced this trade to get the Lakers back on top....why in the fuck are you still interested in the NBA then? Makes no sense why you would still watch this manufactured product....it is preposterous..

Obviously Allanon is bullshit and likes to troll with his marc gasol shtick....

The lakers OBVIOUSLY got the better of the deal....80/20....but Kwame was the biggest expiring available an critt was a valued prospect at the time....gasol was too....he had a good year before la traded him....the thing that makes ZERO sense regarding the trade is fucking randolph....why in the fuck would they trade Pau for that....get the cap space....and then trade for anthony fatass randolph....they would have a large amount of capsapce....have conley/mayo/gay?/gasol going into this off-season....

Randolph fucked it all up for them....why they did that????

But save your fucking conpsiracy bullshit and shut the fuck up ! get off every fukin nba forum you post in if you believe that bullshit!

[picc84]

I got no problem with this attitude and am not trying to make Lakers fans feel guilty because of it. In fact, this is the attitude that Lakers fans should have ... not this boastful, we're-better-than-everyone-else act. Everyone knows that the Spurs did things better than anyone else in the past decade; shady trades altering who wins more titles in the decade doesn't change that.

If that line of thinking helps you sleep better at night, more power to you.

Personally whether my team makes shady trades, legit trades, dumb trades, or whatever has no bearing whatsoever on my feelings toward the organization or the league. I see no benefit to the intangible ethical titles you seem to take comfort in, and assume that anyone even cares about. Somehow I doubt were Oberto and picks traded for Gasol you'd care in the slightest about "shady trades altering who wins more titles in a decade". :lol

I root for my team thick or thin, and whatever they do I roll with it. You can have your empty pseudo-moral victories if they help you sleep at night. Its not my responsibility to worry about how they do it, or what it is. Its my responsibility to be there to enjoy or lament the results. And right now i'm enjoying the fuck out of them.

[Allanon]

No, Lakers fanS. You're not the only one, you're one of many. Because I've seen many attempt to defend this trade and I just don't get it.

There have been NO Lakers fans defending this trade other than me. Please quote me ANY other Laker fan who defended this trade.

You've seen many attempts, just find one attempt that wasn't me and quote/link it here please.

I've been the lone Laker black sheep on this deal here at ST...don't try to make this a Lakerfan thing.



I just explained what was thought to be the upside for both Gasol and Crittenton in the previous post. Those two, plus the 1st round picks cumulative upside did not equal any more than half of Gasol's worth. There were questions about Gasol's athleticism and conditioning and where his sheer size and skill would be enough in the NBA. Obviously, he's in much better shape now and proving otherwise. But like I said, you have to take things for what they were at the time of the deal.

Why do we have to take it for what it was at the time of the deal? How many teams deal on potential?

This isn't 2008. Like I said, I'd give you a free pass for thinking this in 2008. But NOW, no.



The words "great" and "Marc Gasol" should never be used in the same sentence. Most overused word in sports: great. Duncan is great, Bryant is great, Marc Gasol...not so much. $13 million? $10, max.

You are under-estimating Marc Gasol as everybody else has in the past. People are already saying he's a nastier Pau Gasol. The gap between Pau and Marc is not very big. But you would only know this if you watch him play which you obviously haven't because you asked the Power Forward question.

Marc Gasol is naturally more talented than Pau, it won't be long before he exceeds Pau's skills.



Except for the fact that Bynum and Gasol would have a difficult time playing extended minutes together defensively because neither could effectively guard power forwards.
Have you watched any Grizzlies games this year?
If you had, you wouldn't be saying this because it's quite ridiculous.



Let me ask you: what are you attempting to justify this trade? There is no justification. Just because it turns out that the Grizzlies got some value out of it does not mean there wasn't any wrongdoing here. Not alerting other teams beforehand is suspicious enough. Then you throw in the fact that he was dealt to the league's marquee franchise, which was one impact player away from being back among the league's elite...it's just all too convenient.

I am saying as of today this was a VERY fair trade.

In fact, I challenge you to find any trade that was more fair for a big man. Explain what the teams got back in return.

[milkshakeballa]

You are under-estimating Marc Gasol as everybody else has in the past. People are already saying he's a nastier Pau Gasol. The gap between Pau and Marc is not very big.




http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww300/seanachie/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

[Allanon]

http://i729.photobucket.com/albums/ww300/seanachie/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

Why aren't you posting other your other nickname today? :lol

[milkshakeballa]

Why aren't you posting other your other nickname today? :lol

ha wat?

and wat name is that? tell a mod to do an ip check too....

[Allanon]

ha wat?

and wat name is that? tell a mod to do an ip check too....

lol

[milkshakeballa]

Anyways....I don't think West had ANYTHING to do with the trade....or the league...I think Memphis took the bst possibly deal they thought they could get....but they fucked it up with randolph

[Killakobe81]

I think at this time ...even with Marc Gasol developing Gasol is more than SLIGHTLY better than his younger bro ...when Pau was in marcs place he had better stats and he led his team to the playoffs ...
Factor in Pau wa sthe MVP of Euro balll this past year and a keymember of a Champion and has made all-stars ...tough to argue the other way ...Love Marc though

[cobbler]

I've never understood why Lakers fans argue this deal. It's not about what Gasol (Marc) has turned into, it's what his value was at the time. At the time, he was an unathletic, overweight, out of shape center who people projected as a competent backup at this level because of his size and skill. Some said at the time that he's not a lock to stick in the league, though. Crittenton was a project right from the jump and projected as an off the bench combo guard (think poor man's Crawford) if he reached his potential. In addition to the 1st round pick that was thrown in (essentially meaningless, because of how low it was destined to be), there was very little cumulative value in this deal. In return, they got a big man as skilled as any in the league not named Duncan, who was just entering his prime.

We know the Grizzlies did this for "cap related purposes", but if you don't think there was something else at work behind the scenes on this, then you're in denial and niave. It's not just the West connection between the two franchises; the league had to have played a roll in this. Most of the rest of the league didn't even know about it in advance or have time to put together a package and because of that to this day they're still furious. Think about that for a second: how often are teams openly furious about a trade when it occurs? What about going on 2 years later? Unheard of. What likely happened is the league saw their marquee franchise off to a surprising start and knew that if that team had a competent 2nd star (mainly up front) that they'd have a chance to contend, which meant having them on national TV more, which leads to more ratings and subsequently more money for the league. Bryant was one of their two marquee players and they didn't want the remainder of his prime spent on a team toiling in mediocrity.

So many errors in your post I don't know where to start. At the time of the trade, Marc had lost quite a bit of weight and was beasting in Europe. Of course its not the NBA but clearly, if you can judge improvement and work ethic not to mention lineage, you could see that there was a lot of potential. Certainly more than a competent backup. Apparently the Grizz saw this as well as the Lakers because the Grizz demand to have Marc in the deal almost crushed it.

Jarvis was at best a prospect and was going to be dealt anyway due to the Grizz guard situation. There were two first round picks included not one. All three of these were obtained for future trade considerations. Lets not forget that the Grizz were dumping salary and going YOUTH to start a core group of guys to grow together with.

Funny how now the Lakers got as skilled a big man not named duncan in todays discussions but during the 2008 playoffs all we heard was how soft he was and couldnt even win a game in the playoffs for the Grizz.

Of course the Grizz did the move for cap space. The were rebuilding and there was also a huge backlash in Memphis by season tix holders that wanted Pau dealt. Now we keep hearing all the collusion BS but have yet to see any proof of anything dishonest provided. Put up or shut up. If you truly believe the league conspires the way you imply... and yet still watch... then you are an idiot.

The rest of the league did know Pau was on the block and the Grizz had talks with the Bulls just the month prior. Look it up.

How often are teams openly furious about a trade and even talk about it 2 years later? When it's the hated Lakers and the trade takes them from contender to favorite for those 2 years. Duh.

2nd marquee player to make them contenders? They were already contenders and were flip flopping with the Suns as leaders of the west. Look it up. I guess in your book being in first or second place in the dominant west halfway through the season is mediocrity... and that would explain your lack of knowledge and errors in your post.

... and here we are two years later. Marc is playing great. The Grizz have a young core of good players and a future MUCH brighter than had they kept Pau. Seems to me it has worked out great for both teams. All thats left is the belly aching that other teams spew while eating thier sour grapes. Go figure.

Last but not least... Allanon... make that two Laker fans because I posted on Laker boards and a Suns board at the time of the trade that when all was said and done and you had all the players obtained from the picks and salary saved along with Marc's development.... that the trade would be a lot more even than people were bitching about. Of course I was flamed and said just what... it will be me laughing in the end. :lmao

[Allanon]

Last but not least... Allanon... make that two Laker fans because I posted on Laker boards and a Suns board at the time of the trade that when all was said and done. When you had all the players obtained from the picks and salary saved along with Marc's development.... that the trade would be a lot more even than people were bitching about. Of course I was flamed and said just what... it will be me laughing in the end. :lmao

I know how you feel, Cob.

You're one of the newer Laker dudes here but I know I've seen you at that one Suns board for ages (that one with the Emo fan that followed Shaq around his different teams) :lol

[cobbler]

I know how you feel, Cob.

You're one of the newer Laker dudes here but I know I've seen you at that one Suns board for ages (that one with the Emo fan that followed Shaq around his different teams) :lol

Yeah... I got banned from there for insisting the Shaq trade was a failure for them. I need to go back and post both my "I told you so" :lol

[FkLA]

honestly the trade doesnt appear as heavily lopsided as it initially was considering marc's developement, but still the grizzlies trading away someone like pau for simply cap space and an interesting prospect was very risky....im sure there were other teams willing to offer cap space with more solidified prospects instead of marc who at the time was an unkown. there were a couple of gm's that were shocked by the trade i even remember one of them saying something along the lines of 'if thats all it took i wouldve made an offer'.

considering those things the trade was shady plain and simple, i dont see how LA fans can dispute that...nobody can prove for sure if west or the nba played a part in it but you cant blame anyone for suspecting that either.

[TD 21]

So many errors in your post I don't know where to start. At the time of the trade, Marc had lost quite a bit of weight and was beasting in Europe. Of course its not the NBA but clearly, if you can judge improvement and work ethic not to mention lineage, you could see that there was a lot of potential. Certainly more than a competent backup. Apparently the Grizz saw this as well as the Lakers because the Grizz demand to have Marc in the deal almost crushed it.

Jarvis was at best a prospect and was going to be dealt anyway due to the Grizz guard situation. There were two first round picks included not one. All three of these were obtained for future trade considerations. Lets not forget that the Grizz were dumping salary and going YOUTH to start a core group of guys to grow together with.

Funny how now the Lakers got as skilled a big man not named duncan in todays discussions but during the 2008 playoffs all we heard was how soft he was and couldnt even win a game in the playoffs for the Grizz.

Of course the Grizz did the move for cap space. The were rebuilding and there was also a huge backlash in Memphis by season tix holders that wanted Pau dealt. Now we keep hearing all the collusion BS but have yet to see any proof of anything dishonest provided. Put up or shut up.

The rest of the league did know Pau was on the block and the Grizz had talks with the Bulls just the month prior. Look it up.

How often are teams openly furious about a trade and even talk about it 2 years later? When it's the hated Lakers and the trade takes them from contender to favorite for those 2 years. Duh.

2nd marquee player to make them contenders? They were already contenders and were flip flopping with the Suns as leaders of the west. Look it up. I guess in your book being in first or second place in the dominant west halfway through the season is mediocrity... and that would explain your lack of knowledge and errors in your post.

... and here we are two years later. Marc is playing great. The Grizz have a young core of good players and a future MUCH brighter than had they kept Pau. Seems to me it has worked out great for both teams. All thats left is the belly aching that other teams spew while eating thier sour grapes. Go figure.

Last but not least... Allanon... make that two Laker fans because I posted on Laker boards and a Suns board at the time of the trade that when all was said and done. When you had all the players obtained from the picks and salary saved along with Marc's development.... that the trade would be a lot more even than people were bitching about. Of course I was flamed and said just what... it will be me laughing in the end. :lmao

Best deal they could get? The majority of the league had no clue that this deal was about to go down. Aside from the one-sidedness of it, why do you think so many were furious? Because they didn't even have a chance to put together a package.

He was still overweight. His projection at the time was competent backup center. Yeah, I thought there were two first round picks, but couldn't remember for certain. Let's face it: what were the odds of any asset acquired in the deal becoming part of the Grizzlies core going forward? Not very good.

He is extremely soft, but what does that have to do with his skill level? Oh but I forgot, the Lakers, they're the epitome of being hard done.

Get real...you'll never see an ounce of proof on this; it's simply putting the pieces of the puzzle together. If this were actually true (we'll never know) and word got out, all of the league's credibility would be gone.

I remember it well. Gasol was rumored being shopped, but when it actually went down a lot of teams didn't know that they had a deal with the Lakers. I'm not going to waste time finding old articles, but teams (including the Bulls, if I'm not mistaken) felt they never had a chance.

Don't make your excuse. The fact of the matter is it's unheard of.

Big deal what they were doing relatively early in the regular season. I know it's hypothetical, but bear with me here: the Lakers don't get Gasol, Bynum is out injured...even with an injured Ginobili, do the Lakers have a chance against the Spurs?

Once again, it's all hindsight. Gasol was not supposed to be nearly as good as he's turned out to be and even if he was, who gives a fuck? It's still not nearly enough value and all the Grizzlies did (assuming their goal is to one day win a championship) is put another potential superpower in their way in the West for the next handful of years. All teams like them had to do was out-wait the Spurs and then attempted to capitalize.

[DeadlyDynasty]

boo-fuckin-hoo...Lakers just beat every team to the punch w/ the gasol trade...get the fuck over it

[Allanon]

At the time of the trade and you didn't see the potential, I can understand. But teams trade on potential all the time. And it worked perfectly for the Grizz.

Even Jeff Van Gundy, a big jokester about the trade said he's loving Marc Gasol (said it in the Lakers game).

In hindsight, I don't know how anybody can say this wasn't a very fair deal.

There hasn't been a fairer big man trade this whole decade.

[milkshakeballa]

Gasol was on the block WELL before...if your teams GM didn't make a fucking offer that doesn't mean its a fucking conspiracy. The bulls and grizz were rumored quite a while b4 the trade went down

[TD 21]

There have been NO Lakers fans defending this trade other than me. Please quote me ANY other Laker fan who defended this trade.

You've seen many attempts, just find one attempt that wasn't me and quote/link it here please.

I've been the lone Laker black sheep on this deal here at ST...don't try to make this a Lakerfan thing.



Why do we have to take it for what it was at the time of the deal? How many teams deal on potential?

This isn't 2008. Like I said, I'd give you a free pass for thinking this in 2008. But NOW, no.



You are under-estimating Marc Gasol as everybody else has in the past. People are already saying he's a nastier Pau Gasol. The gap between Pau and Marc is not very big. But you would only know this if you watch him play which you obviously haven't because you asked the Power Forward question.

Marc Gasol is naturally more talented than Pau, it won't be long before he exceeds Pau's skills.


Have you watched any Grizzlies games this year?
If you had, you wouldn't be saying this because it's quite ridiculous.



I am saying as of today this was a VERY fair trade.

In fact, I challenge you to find any trade that was more fair for a big man. Explain what the teams got back in return.

Look, I'm not going to waste my time searching for this, but I've argued and seen many a debates on various NBA message boards regarding this trade. Trust me on that. Here on SpursTalk specifically? Can't say for certain I've see that, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You're missing the point. It's one thing to deal for potential when the potential is projected to be high; that wasn't the case in this deal. One was originally thought to be a backup center, the other an off the bench combo guard.

I have watched him play and know the numbers, but the fact of the matter is he's more than likely never going to make an All-Star team, meanwhile his brother is a consensus top 15 player at this point.

Naturally more talented? And you're telling me I'm ridiculous? Don't pull this know it all shit with me, like I don't follow the league. From what I've seen and know of Gasol, he can't effectively guard power forward's on a full time basis.

The Garnett trade, while not equal in value, was much more fair. Jefferson projected as an All-Star caliber big man and Green was thought to have a big time upside at the time. Even Telfair, while people realized that he clearly wasn't going to be a star at that point, he was still a better prospect than Crittenton ever was.

[Allanon]

Look, I'm not going to waste my time searching for this, but I've argued and seen many a debate on various NBA message boards regarding this trade. Trust me on that. Here on SpursTalk specifically? Can't say for certain I've see that, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

On other boards, sure, not this one.



You're missing the point. It's one thing to deal for potential when the potential is projected to be high; that wasn't the case in this deal. One was originally thought to be a backup center, the other an off the bench combo guard.

I have watched him play and know the numbers, but the fact of the matter is he's more than likely never going to make an All-Star team, meanwhile his brother is a consensus top 15 player at this point.

I'll take a sig bet with you about him not making the All Star team. There was even talk that he'd make it this year. Next year he's in. Marc will get the coach's vote.

Put your sig where your mouth is.



Naturally more talented? And you're telling me I'm ridiculous? Don't pull this know it all shit with me, like I don't follow the league. From what I've seen and know of Gasol, he can't effectively guard power forward's on a full time basis.

The Garnett trade, while not equal in value, was much more fair. Jefferson projected as an All-Star caliber big man and Green was thought to have a big time upside at the time.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Marc Gasol is better suited at the Poward Forward position because he's a natural shooter. He's already a better shooter than Pau.

And if you were watching the Grizz, you would know they are grooming him to play the Power Forward position with Thabeet at Center. They put him at PF in almost every game along with Thabeet.

Marc Gasol is an outstanding PF defender and his soft touch makes him an equally good PF on offense. His footwork and passing isn't as good as Pau....yet.

[milkshakeballa]

Look, I'm not going to waste my time searching for this, but I've argued and seen many a debate on various NBA message boards regarding this trade. Trust me on that. Here on SpursTalk specifically? Can't say for certain I've see that, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You're missing the point. It's one thing to deal for potential when the potential is projected to be high; that wasn't the case in this deal. One was originally thought to be a backup center, the other an off the bench combo guard.

I have watched him play and know the numbers, but the fact of the matter is he's more than likely never going to make an All-Star team, meanwhile his brother is a consensus top 15 player at this point.

Naturally more talented? And you're telling me I'm ridiculous? Don't pull this know it all shit with me, like I don't follow the league. From what I've seen and know of Gasol, he can't effectively guard power forward's on a full time basis.

The Garnett trade, while not equal in value, was much more fair. Jefferson projected as an All-Star caliber big man and Green was thought to have a big time upside at the time.


I'm by no means a huge M Gasol fan like Allanon....but at the time of the trade he had considerable talent and was a high prospect. And JCritt at the time was not a combo guard off the bench ceiling. Laker brass saw him as a potential all-star....they were INCREDIBLY excited by him... thats why so many Laker fans were hyping him up....

[milkshakeballa]

I'll take a sig bet with you about him not making the All Star team. There was even talk that he'd make it this year. Next year he's in.





:rollin:rollin:rollin:lol:lol:lol:rollin:rollin:ro llin

Timmy, Pau, Amare, Yao, Bynum ring a bell??????

[TD 21]

I'm by no means a huge M Gasol fan like Allanon....but at the time of the trade he had considerable talent and was a high prospect. And JCritt at the time was not a combo guard off the bench ceiling. Laker brass saw him as a potential all-star....they were INCREDIBLY excited by him... thats why so many Laker fans were hyping him up....

No, he wasn't. He was a mid-level prospect. Yeah, that was Crittenton's ceiling at the time. Of course on draft night, analysts get carried away and overzealous, but did anybody really think Crittenton had star or even starter written all over him? Just like Spurs fans hype of Hill, who while clearly better than Crittenton will ever be, is and more than likely never will be anything close to resembling a star.

[Allanon]

:rollin:rollin:rollin:lol:lol:lol:rollin:rollin:ro llin

Timmy, Pau, Amare, Yao, Bynum ring a bell??????

Bynum and Marc will be the two best Centers in the West next year. I dunno about Yao.

[milkshakeballa]

No, he wasn't. He was a mid-level prospect. Yeah, that was Crittenton's ceiling at the time. Of course on draft night, analysts get carried away and overzealous, but did anybody really think Crittenton had star or even starter written all over him? Just like Spurs fans hype of Hill, who while clearly better than Crittenton will ever be, is and more than likely never will be anything close to resembling a star.


You're entitled to your opinion.....


Doesn't change the fact that Gasol on the Lakers = :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:


Yep...4 more in a row for your fucking ass to deal with

[TD 21]

On other boards, sure, not this one.



I'll take a sig bet with you about him not making the All Star team. There was even talk that he'd make it this year. Next year he's in.

Put your sig where your mouth is.



You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Marc Gasol is better suited at the Poward Forward position because he's a natural shooter. He's already a better shooter than Pau.

And if you were watching the Grizz, you would know they are grooming him to play the Power Forward position with Thabeet at Center. They put him at PF in almost every game along with Thabeet.

Marc Gasol is an outstanding PF defender and his soft touch makes him an equally good PF on offense. His footwork and passing isn't as good as Pau....yet.

You're all still Lakers fans, regardless of what board it's on.

No chance he's in. The Grizzlies likely won't have the record for it and even if they do, he's not enough of a name, even if he were deserving, to get the nod.

Next year, Yao is back. So you got Yao, Duncan, Nowitzki, Stoudemire and Gasol as locks up front. That's five, which is all you need. If there's a sixth, it's Bynum.

I don't have a sig.

So you're saying you can't be a good shooter and play center? You don't know much about basketball, that's becoming more obvious by the post. It's not about offensively, it's defensively he's better suited, because of his lack of athleticism and lateral quickness, to guarding centers. He's a plodder and there aren't too many power forward's that are plodders nowadays. Not even many centers that are.

That's because they have to get their 2 pick minutes somehow, genius. Thabeet has to play center; Gasol can play some power forward in selective match-ups. He's like Miller (Brad) or Okur in this regard. Also, with Arthur being out, the Grizzlies are essentially down to 3 bigs.

[TD 21]

You're entitled to your opinion.....


Doesn't change the fact that Gasol on the Lakers = :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:


Yep...4 more in a row for your fucking ass to deal with

See, this is the attitude I have a problem with. You don't have to apologize, but why the unprovoked, unnecessary arrogance? I guess it just goes hand in hand with being a Lakers fans.

4 more in a row my ass...Bryant doesn't have the legs for it and once he doesn't, it won't matter how good the rest of the team is. Really, Bynum is the only significant young player on the roster. I give the Lakers this year and 2 more where they're serious contenders. They'll probably win 1, maybe 2 more championships in that stretch.

[cobbler]

Best deal they could get? The majority of the league had no clue that this deal was about to go down. Aside from the one-sidedness of it, why do you think so many were furious? Because they didn't even have a chance to put together a package.

Here are two articles found with a simple search that says otherwise.


SEATTLE - Faced with growing opposition in Memphis to last week's trading sending Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley tried to blame the Bulls indirectly for getting so little for a 7-foot former all-star.

In an interview with the Memphis Commercial Appeal in Tuesday's edition, Heisley said the Bulls were unwilling to give up quality players or offer financial relief, so the Grizzlies looked elsewhere. Gasol was traded for Kwame Brown (expiring $9.5 million expiring contract), rookie Javaris Crittenton and two first-round draft picks.

-----

PER THE NBA rumor mill, the Chicago Bulls had a chance to nab Memphis all-star post Pau Gasol before the trade deadline.

Reportedly, it would've taken the expiring contract of veteran forward P.J. Brown and one of their young perimeter players -- point guard Kirk Hinrich, shooting guard Ben Gordon, forward Luol Deng or forward Andres Nocioni. But Chicago didn't want to part with one of its young studs.

It's safe to say it was a big mistake the Bulls didn't pull the trigger. As Detroit is proving in the Eastern Conference semifinals, Chicago's coveted young players just aren't enough on their ...



He was still overweight. His projection at the time was competent backup center. Yeah, I thought there were two first round picks, but couldn't remember for certain. Let's face it: what were the odds of any asset acquired in the deal becoming part of the Grizzlies core going forward? Not very good.

You obviously didn't understand my point. The grizz had always intended to package the picks later in thier rebuilding process. The deal was made to dump salary and obtain as many prospects and picks as they could to be used later to build thier core team. And that is EXACTLY what they did.


He is extremely soft, but what does that have to do with his skill level? Oh but I forgot, the Lakers, they're the epitome of being hard done.

Not quite sure what "hard done" is. Again you miss the point. When the trade went down everyone bitched. Then the Lakers got beat in 2008 and we didnt hear how it was so lopsided anymore but how soft he was and never accomplished squat in Memphis. Now the Lakers are dominating and the belly aching resumes. It's sour grapes and nothing more.


Get real...you'll never see an ounce of proof on this; it's simply putting the pieces of the puzzle together. If this were actually true (we'll never know) and word got out, all of the league's credibility would be gone.

According to whiners like you with all your conspiricy theories the leagues credibility is gone. That's why I say if you truly believe your BS then you are a fool for watching a single game. Go to the WWE.


I remember it well. Gasol was rumored being shopped, but when it actually went down a lot of teams didn't know that they had a deal with the Lakers. I'm not going to waste time finding old articles, but teams (including the Bulls, if I'm not mistaken) felt they never had a chance.

See above comments. It was well known that Gasol was on the trading block even as far back as the year before. There is no rule that says the Grizz have to make it known anyway. And the facts are that several teams made offers just prior to the trade. The Lakers, fortunately for us fans, had the highest expiring contract at the time. Get your facts straight.


Don't make your excuse. The fact of the matter is it's unheard of.

Again, you should do your research. Here are just a few links showing what are or were considered lopsided trades in the NBA. History is littered with them.

http://www.elevationmag.com/basketball/index.php?itemid=340

http://dimemag.com/2007/09/the-most-lopsided-trades-in-nba-history/

http://www.mindritesports.com/2007/10/19/hoops-for-thought-the-nbas-worst-trades/


Big deal what they were doing relatively early in the regular season. I know it's hypothetical, but bear with me here: the Lakers don't get Gasol, Bynum is out injured...even with an injured Ginobili, do the Lakers have a chance against the Spurs?

And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass so often. So take your hypo the other step... if they dont get Gasol and bynum DOESNT go down. Do the Spurs have a chance against the Lakers? We could play this game forever. Waste of time.


Once again, it's all hindsight. Gasol was not supposed to be nearly as good as he's turned out to be and even if he was, who gives a fuck? It's still not nearly enough value and all the Grizzlies did (assuming their goal is to one day win a championship) is put another potential superpower in their way in the West for the next handful of years. All teams like them had to do was out-wait the Spurs and then attempted to capitalize.

You again do not understand the facts of the day. The Memphis fan base wanted Pau out. They threatened to not buy season tix etc etc. You are very presumptious to say "wait the Spurs out" like they were unbeatable. So the Grizz save money. Create a core group of players that are young and with 4 to 5 years of building could be something. And look... thats about the time the Lakers would be in the position to have to start thinking of rebuliding post Kobe. But again, since they didn't take into consideration the Spurs needs... the whining continues.

[Allanon]

So you're saying you can't be a good shooter and play center? You don't know much about basketball, that's becoming more obvious by the post. It's not about offensively, it's defensively he's better suited, because of his lack of athleticism and lateral quickness, to guarding centers. He's a plodder and there aren't too many power forward's that are plodders nowadays. Not even many centers that are.

It has nothing to do with him being a Center, he can play both positions very well. Just like Pau. Except Marc's a better shooter and that goes better with the PF position.

Plodding Marc Gasol was last year. You obviously haven't watched him play, he's about the same size as Pau Gasol right now and very fast for a Center.

Fat, plodding Marc was last year, he's no longer fat:
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/64297/47234_6_80455_6.jpg



That's because they have to get their 2 pick minutes somehow, genius. Thabeet has to play center; Gasol can play some power forward in selective match-ups. He's like Miller (Brad) or Okur in this regard. Also, with Arthur being out, the Grizzlies are essentially down to 3 bigs.

Hahah, you're crazy.

The Memphis Twin Towers is looking very good at this point. Thabeet on D and Marc on offense...very potent PF/Center combo once they get some more time together.

Zach Randolph becomes a valuable expiring next year.

Give 'em some time and you'll see 'ol Allanon was right yet again.

[milkshakeballa]

See, this is the attitude I have a problem with. You don't have to apologize, but why the unprovoked, unnecessary arrogance?

Why? your fukin crying about a trade that happened 2 years ago....shut your shit up and i won't be arrogant....



4 more in a row my ass...Bryant doesn't have the legs for it and once he doesn't, it won't matter how good the rest of the team is. Really, Bynum is the only significant young player on the roster. I give the Lakers this year and 2 more where they're serious contenders. They'll probably win 1, maybe 2 more championships in that stretch.

bryant doesn't have the legs for it???? :rollin:rollin:rollin

So 2 more years after this....so that year after Kobe is wat...33? 34? Pau is 32 33? LO is 31/32 Ron Ron same age as LO....Bynum is 25 hahaha


And they aren't a contender???? :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Purple & Gold]

Allanon i have to respond to the bullshit you keep spewing about Marc Gasol. Pretty much anybody that knows anything about European Basketball knew he was gonna be a good player. There were more than a few on here (including spur fans) that knew he was gonna be good and that it was a solid trade for Memphis. Nobody else was giving them shit so they took a huge expiring and 4 first rounders (Gasol was first round talent). That doesn't mean the Lakers didn't make out like bandits it just means it was the right move for the Grizzlies. But to keep hearing you trying to suck yourself off about how nobody in the world spotted his talent is getting annoying. You're eye for talent is mediocre at best. I mean for fucks sake you're an Odom fan and wanted dick and his $14 Million on the Lakers squad.

[Allanon]

Allanon i have to respond to the bullshit you keep spewing about Marc Gasol. Pretty much anybody that knows anything about European Basketball knew he was gonna be a good player. There were more than a few on here (including spur fans) that knew he was gonna be good and that it was a solid trade for Memphis. Nobody else was giving them shit so they took a huge expiring and 4 first rounders (Gasol was first round talent). That doesn't mean the Lakers didn't make out like bandits it just means it was the right move for the Grizzlies. But to keep hearing you trying to suck yourself off about how nobody in the world spotted his talent is getting annoying. You're eye for talent is mediocre at best. I mean for fucks sake you're an Odom fan and wanted dick and his $14 Million on the Lakers squad.

Fuck off Lakerfan. Don't try to impose your opinion on me... take that self-righteous crap to LG, it fits right in.

I'm responding to somebody else bringing it up...I don't bring this shit up.

I'm tired of all this idiocy about collusion that you and the Spurfans support.

The was NO FUCKING COLLUSION, Lakerfan, get over it.

If you believe this collusion shit, don't watch the NBA. This was the fairest big man trade in the last decade. Show me a more fair quality big man trade this last decade.

If you don't like it, /ignore is your friend or GTFO.

[Purple & Gold]

LMAO @ your sorry ass. You so emotional you can't even read. I actually said it was a good trade for Memphis then and now and that people that know anything about European basketball knew he was gonna be a good player. More then a few thought that including some spur fans. But for you to act as if you're the only Lakerfan that can spot talent is laughable. Admit it you're eye for talent is average at best.

[Allanon]

LMAO @ your sorry ass. You so emotional you can't even read. I actually said it was a good trade for Memphis then and now and that people that know anything about European basketball knew he was gonna be a good player. More then a few thought that including some spur fans. But for you to act as if you're the only Lakerfan that can spot talent is laughable. Admit it you're eye for talent is average at best.

Hahah, you're such a tool. I take responsibility because I don't want this blamed on other Laker fans. Many Laker fans take offense to this dicussion and I wanted to make it clear it wasn't most Laker fans as was insinuated.

I'd welcome any Laker fan on the bandwagon as I did when Cobbler said he did too. If you were here posting before about how fair the trade was, I congratulate you. I don't remember seeing you in any of the threads but I can take your word for it.

But you coming in here all emo and shit on a Laker fan warrants me telling you to fuck off.

[Kori Ellis]

Wait... the Laker fans are fighting among themselves about the Gasol trade? :wtf

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

my jedi mind tricks are working :clap

The Faker fanbase is dividing! :lmao

[Allanon]

Wait... the Laker fans are fighting among themselves about the Gasol trade? :wtf

It's actually a misunderstanding. :lol

He thinks I'm trying to take credit for it, when I'm trying to deflect the blame from my fellow Laker fans who don't feel the same way I do about the Gasol trade.

My apologies P&G, your insults set me off...I always respond to insults with even more insults.

[Purple & Gold]

Hahah, you're such a tool. I take responsibility because I don't want this blamed on other Laker fans.

I'd welcome any Laker fan on the bandwagon as I did when Cobbler said he did too. If you were here posting before about how fair the trade was, I congratulate you. I don't remember seeing you in any of the threads but I can take your word for it.

But you coming in here all emo and shit on a Laker fan warrants me telling you to fuck off.

All emo? :lol

You're the one that is on the verge of breakdown mode. I only called you out for continuously sucking your own dick about the younger Gasol. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a Spanish League MVP with legit size was gonna do well in the NBA. Just because spur fans keep crying about the trade doesn't mean that nobody else noticed his talent.

So to keep it clean and short don't start honking your own horn especially when you wanted the money that would have been saved from Pau's contract to be given to Dick Jefferson. At least use half your brain and realize that a PG was needed and not another SF type player.

And yes I've been here for awhile and sensible spur fans realized it was a good trade for Memphis. They also realized this would put the Lakeshow over the top which is where all the hostility towards the trade comes from.

As for your bandwagon invitation. No thanks don't need it. Been a Laker fan since day 1

[Allanon]

All emo? :lol

You're the one that is on the verge of breakdown mode. I only called you out for continuously sucking your own dick about the younger Gasol. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a Spanish League MVP with legit size was gonna do well in the NBA. Just because spur fans keep crying about the trade doesn't mean that nobody else noticed his talent.

So to keep it clean and short don't start honking your own horn especially when you wanted the money that would have been saved from Pau's contract to be given to Dick Jefferson. At least use half your brain and realize that a PG was needed and not another SF type player.

And yes I've been here for awhile and sensible spur fans realized it was a good trade for Memphis. They also realized this would put the Lakeshow over the top which is where all the hostility towards the trade comes from.

As for your bandwagon invitation. No thanks don't need it. Been a Laker fan since day 1

You've misunderstood my intentions P&G.

I'm not tooting my own horn or sucking my own dick as you put it.

If you read over the thread and others like it, there's a constant insinuation that Laker fans are just making excuses to validate the trade.

Since I've said this since Day 1, other Laker fans can't be called out for making excuses after the fact.

Just making sure my fellow Lakerfans don't get shitted on for what I do.

[Purple & Gold]

It's actually a misunderstanding. :lol

He thinks I'm trying to take credit for it, when I'm trying to deflect the blame from my fellow Laker fans who don't feel the same way I do about the Gasol trade.

My apologies P&G, your insults set me off...I always respond to insults with even more insults.

It's all forgiven Allanon just admit Pau is better than the Marc/Jefferson combo :lol

But seriously sensible people realized this was a good trade for Memphis and a GREAT one for the Lakers. The second part is why they keep hating.

BTW I like trash talking so ignore my last post :lol

[Allanon]

All good P&G. To be honest, I didn't read your post, just wrote some nasty shit I could think of :lol

Here's an example of why I tried to take the sole blame for it. Not picking on Harlem, he's been surprisingly very fair lately. There's been plenty like it though from others.

To be fair, Laker fans were obviously pimping their "prospects" to make the trade look better.

[Purple & Gold]

You've misunderstood my intentions P&G.

I'm not tooting my own horn or sucking my own dick as you put it.

If you read over the thread and others like it, there's a constant insinuation that Laker fans are just making excuses to validate the trade.

Since I've said this since Day 1, other Laker fans can't be called out for making excuses after the fact.

Just making sure my fellow Lakerfans don't get shitted on for what I do.

HaHa no worries it's all in good fun. Yes Marc is a good player and I would have loved if he was not part of the trade. But you have to give up something to get something. I also have a feeling Marc and Pau also wanted him part of the deal because they knew he wouldn't get any PT behind Bynum and it would seriously stunt his NBA career. This was a Win/Win for basically everybody. Good trade all the way around.

[Purple & Gold]

Wait... the Laker fans are fighting among themselves about the Gasol trade? :wtf

We just trying to keep it more like the upstairs forum....

[Purple & Gold]

All good P&G. To be honest, I didn't read your post, just wrote some nasty shit I could think of :lol

Here's an example of why I tried to take the sole blame for it. Not picking on Harlem, he's been surprisingly very fair lately. There's been plenty like it though from others.

:lol Harlem is just upset the Lakers gonna run off a bunch of Titles now. Can't say I blame him I'd be worried to if I was a fan of a different team.

[Allanon]

:lol Harlem is just upset the Lakers gonna run off a bunch of Titles now. Can't say I blame him I'd be worried to if I was a fan of a different team.

Harlem's been pretty cool lately so I can't talk shit about him.

About Pau, I'm not talking shit about Pau. Pau's a great player and obviously better than Marc right now.

My whole point is Marc Gasol is 5 years younger than Pau. Laker dominance could have been for the next 10-12 years instead of the next 5.

But the Grizz did the league a favor and screwed that all up...yet Spurfans aren't appreciative of it. :lol

[Purple & Gold]

Harlem's been pretty cool lately so I can't talk shit about him.

About Pau, I'm not talking shit about Pau. Pau's a great player and obviously better than Marc right now.

My whole point is Marc Gasol is 5 years younger than Pau. Laker dominance could have been for the next 10-12 years instead of the next 5.

But the Grizz did the league a favor and screwed that all up...yet Spurfans aren't appreciative of it. :lol

Lots of things can happen in the future who says we don't get Marc back later on :toast

[21_Blessings]

Its a Spurs board, so there's gonne be alot of trash talking going on of opposing players. I mean, one guy said Bynum's worst case scenario is a more explosive Tim Duncan. I garuantee you 99.9% of people here would take Bynum on their team, but they wont say that when there are some Laker-fans gloating about how he can be better than David Robinson.

Which poster said that again?

Even then you have to admit, at 22 with his post gam, Bynum can get much better than he is now. Which is a 20/10 player on 90% of the teams in the NBA.

But if you want extreme examples, numerous posters here use to compare Manu to Kobe using Hollinger logic, claiming he was a superior player when healthy. Or some other inane crap disparaging Kobe and many actually believed the "Kobe can't win witout Shaq" talking point.

Not to mention most Spurs fans of this board was claiming the Spurs would were absolute contenders this off-season with the RJ addition. Acting like teams such as Dallas and Denver weren't even on their level. When we called them out on it with reality and facts, those Spurs fan flipped out and had the audacity to call our fanbase 'homers'. :lol

[Ice009]

But if you want extreme examples, numerous posters here use to compare Manu to Kobe using Hollinger logic, claiming he was a superior player when healthy. Or some other inane crap disparaging Kobe and many actually believed the "Kobe can't win witout Shaq" talking point.

If you ask me Kobe is the last couple of years has been playing like Manu's 2005-2007 Blueprint where he looks to get other players involved and takes over the game in the 4th.

Manu at his best is on the same level as Kobe, but Kobe is usually at his best 24/7 ;). Great player Bryant now that he is actually getting others involved.

[Ice009]

Lots of things can happen in the future who says we don't get Marc back later on :toast

We can forget about the Pau Gasol trade right now if the Grizzles trade us Marc Gasol for Bonner and Splitter's rights.

[21_Blessings]

If you ask me Kobe is the last couple of years has been playing like Manu's 2005-2007 Blueprint where he looks to get other players involved and takes over the game in the 4th.

Manu at his best is on the same level as Kobe, but Kobe is usually at his best 24/7 ;). Great player Bryant now that he is actually getting others involved.

:lol :lol :lol :lmao :lmao ::lmao

Thank you for affirming my point.

[Ice009]

:lol :lol :lol :lmao :lmao ::lmao

Thank you for affirming my point.

Manu when on is easily just as good. He just doesn't stay at that level as long or consistently.

If you don't like it go suck Kobe off some more.

Kobe himself has even mentioned he likes watching Manu so you could easily say that he has picked up a thing or two from Manu about being unselfish.

Because Kobe sure as fuck was selfish for a good 5, 6 seasons.

[21_Blessings]

Manu when on is easily just as good. He just doesn't stay at that level as long or consistently.

No he's not. Nor has he ever been.


If you don't like it go suck Kobe off some more.

What was that? Can't hear you with all that Manu penis situated in your mouth.


Kobe himself has even mentioned he likes watching Manu so you could easily say that he has picked up a thing or two from Manu about being unselfish.

Because Kobe sure as fuck was selfish for a good 5, 6 seasons.

Kobe sure as fuck was better than Manu his entire career. Give Manu that 05/06 Lakers team and they would have been would be catching lottery balls.

[Ice009]

No he's not. Nor has he ever been.

Kobe sure as fuck was better than Manu his entire career. Give Manu that 05/06 Lakers team and they would have been would be catching lottery balls.

Did I say Manu was better over his whole career? I said when Manu is at his best he could play at an insane level.

If you were to put Manu on a bad team in his prime he could have averaged close to 30 too.

Wow Kobe is the only player ever that can average 30 points on a crappy team while taking 40 fucking shots a game. LOL He's so impressive.

[Culburn369]

Manu when on is easily just as good. He just doesn't stay at that level as long or consistently.

It's arguable.

I said so months ago.

[picc84]

Its a fucking Civil War in here.

[Capt Bringdown]

Manu at his best is on the same level as Kobe, but Kobe is usually at his best 24/7 ;).

No, Manu is not even remotely close to Kobe, not when he's at his best, not ever.
Take a gander at Kobe's career stats.

[Ice009]

No, Manu is not even remotely close to Kobe, not when he's at his best, not ever.
Take a gander at Kobe's career stats.

Yes he is. Coming with the stats argument means you didn't read a word I said.

I guess you have never watched a Spurs game since before 2005.

[TheManFromAcme]

Pau is a great fit for the Lakers.
Marc could have been a great fit for the Lakers (although I lean towards Pau)
Business is still business regarding all things NBA and doubt that the legal department over at NBA headquarters cares a hoot about what us fans thinks could have or should have been done regarding this trade.

.....relax guys.

[Culburn369]

No, Manu is not even remotely close to Kobe, not when he's at his best, not ever.
Take a gander at Kobe's career stats.

At prime one can say it and not be afraid= Kobe portends not to have conscious in game. Manu simply did not.

Manu was more lethal than Kobe.

Kobe needs. Manu is self-contained.

[picc84]

I agree that a great Manu game playing at his best is an average Kobe game.

[cobbler]

If you ask me Kobe is the last couple of years has been playing like Manu's 2005-2007 Blueprint where he looks to get other players involved and takes over the game in the 4th.

Manu at his best is on the same level as Kobe, but Kobe is usually at his best 24/7 ;). Great player Bryant now that he is actually getting others involved.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[TD 21]

Here are two articles found with a simple search that says otherwise.


SEATTLE - Faced with growing opposition in Memphis to last week's trading sending Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers, Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley tried to blame the Bulls indirectly for getting so little for a 7-foot former all-star.

In an interview with the Memphis Commercial Appeal in Tuesday's edition, Heisley said the Bulls were unwilling to give up quality players or offer financial relief, so the Grizzlies looked elsewhere. Gasol was traded for Kwame Brown (expiring $9.5 million expiring contract), rookie Javaris Crittenton and two first-round draft picks.

-----

PER THE NBA rumor mill, the Chicago Bulls had a chance to nab Memphis all-star post Pau Gasol before the trade deadline.

Reportedly, it would've taken the expiring contract of veteran forward P.J. Brown and one of their young perimeter players -- point guard Kirk Hinrich, shooting guard Ben Gordon, forward Luol Deng or forward Andres Nocioni. But Chicago didn't want to part with one of its young studs.

It's safe to say it was a big mistake the Bulls didn't pull the trigger. As Detroit is proving in the Eastern Conference semifinals, Chicago's coveted young players just aren't enough on their ...




You obviously didn't understand my point. The grizz had always intended to package the picks later in thier rebuilding process. The deal was made to dump salary and obtain as many prospects and picks as they could to be used later to build thier core team. And that is EXACTLY what they did.



Not quite sure what "hard done" is. Again you miss the point. When the trade went down everyone bitched. Then the Lakers got beat in 2008 and we didnt hear how it was so lopsided anymore but how soft he was and never accomplished squat in Memphis. Now the Lakers are dominating and the belly aching resumes. It's sour grapes and nothing more.



According to whiners like you with all your conspiricy theories the leagues credibility is gone. That's why I say if you truly believe your BS then you are a fool for watching a single game. Go to the WWE.



See above comments. It was well known that Gasol was on the trading block even as far back as the year before. There is no rule that says the Grizz have to make it known anyway. And the facts are that several teams made offers just prior to the trade. The Lakers, fortunately for us fans, had the highest expiring contract at the time. Get your facts straight.



Again, you should do your research. Here are just a few links showing what are or were considered lopsided trades in the NBA. History is littered with them.

http://www.elevationmag.com/basketball/index.php?itemid=340

http://dimemag.com/2007/09/the-most-lopsided-trades-in-nba-history/

http://www.mindritesports.com/2007/10/19/hoops-for-thought-the-nbas-worst-trades/



And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass so often. So take your hypo the other step... if they dont get Gasol and bynum DOESNT go down. Do the Spurs have a chance against the Lakers? We could play this game forever. Waste of time.



You again do not understand the facts of the day. The Memphis fan base wanted Pau out. They threatened to not buy season tix etc etc. You are very presumptious to say "wait the Spurs out" like they were unbeatable. So the Grizz save money. Create a core group of players that are young and with 4 to 5 years of building could be something. And look... thats about the time the Lakers would be in the position to have to start thinking of rebuliding post Kobe. But again, since they didn't take into consideration the Spurs needs... the whining continues.

As I said, that was from earlier in the year. As the trade happened, I recall teams being furious because they didn't know it was going down.

What the fuck are you talking about? People have complained (rightly so) since the day that deal went down. Like anything, with time you hear less and less of it, but people are still furious over it. I just read that within' the past two weeks.

"Conspiricy"? Conspiracy. I'm not niave or a fanboy like you. I know full well that there has to be some wrongdoing going on in all of professional sports. Do I buy that the results are rigged? Not a chance, because no one in their right mind would risk multi-billion dollar entities over having one of their marquee teams in the Finals one year. I like watching basketball, this just so happens to be the highest level it's played at and I find it entertaining.

For the umpteenth time, I know he was available. But that was early in the season. Then, talk died down and then all of a sudden, out of the blue one day he's off to the Lakers. It's standard procedure in sports to inform the entire league when you're making a player available, so as to not limit your options and to maximize the return you get.

Way to cop-out, you fucking homer. The league saw their marquee franchise having a surprising year and knew full well that with one more impact player that they could contend for a championship. If that shady trade never goes down, then barring injury, to this day the Spurs are still ruling the West.

Fucking rights the problem I have with this deal is that it involved the Lakers. That's precisely what takes it from head scratching to clearly shady. When things like this and the Barry no-call and game 6 in the '02 WCF stop going the Lakers favor, then people will stop being suspicious.
It has nothing to do with him being a Center, he can play both positions very well. Just like Pau. Except Marc's a better shooter and that goes better with the PF position.

Plodding Marc Gasol was last year. You obviously haven't watched him play, he's about the same size as Pau Gasol right now and very fast for a Center.

Fat, plodding Marc was last year, he's no longer fat:
http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/64297/47234_6_80455_6.jpg



Hahah, you're crazy.

The Memphis Twin Towers is looking very good at this point. Thabeet on D and Marc on offense...very potent PF/Center combo once they get some more time together.

Zach Randolph becomes a valuable expiring next year.

Give 'em some time and you'll see 'ol Allanon was right yet again.

It has everything to do with him being a center. Marc is a C/PF, Pau is a PF/C.

I have watched him play, do you not listen? I just watched him play against the Cavs on Tuesday. I know full well that he lost a lot of weight (I believe I already brought this up), so cut the know-it-all act. Marc is a center and a plodder; losing weight doesn't change that.

Thabbet has career backup written all over him. Because of his length and shot blocking/rim protection, he'll always have value, a la Diop. But he'll probably always have a low IQ and a limited skill-set.

When have you ever been right (I mean in direct conversation with me, after I said you were wrong, because you're acting as if that scenario has unfolded before)?



Why? your fukin crying about a trade that happened 2 years ago....shut your shit up and i won't be arrogant....



bryant doesn't have the legs for it???? :rollin:rollin:rollin

So 2 more years after this....so that year after Kobe is wat...33? 34? Pau is 32 33? LO is 31/32 Ron Ron same age as LO....Bynum is 25 hahaha


And they aren't a contender???? :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

I'm not crying about anything you fucking retard, what I'm saying is why do the majority of Lakers fans act like arrogant assholes? Like they did everything better than everyone else. Just admit that you benefited from a lopsided, at the very least suspicious deal. Is that hard?

Damn right, Bryant doesn't have the legs for it. Just because you homers see him being marketed with James, Wade, Howard, Paul and Anthony, it's as if you goofs have forgotten the fact that he's significantly older and has far more mileage than any of them.

Like Bryant himself once said, "it's not the age, it's the mileage". Bryant is essentially 33-35 in NBA years right now. If you think he's playing an an elite level past 3 years then you're flat out delusional.

Don't you get it? Just like Duncan is the Spurs window, so to is Bryant the Lakers. Artest and Odom are 30 and Gasol is 29. Bynum is the only significant young player at 22. Is he good enough to be a lead player for a championship team? I seriously doubt it. And even if he is, there isn't enough quality youth/depth or the cap space to put pieces around him. But I'm sure the league will help out the Lakers once they start floundering again.

[HarlemHeat37]

How can somebody actually say "why are you crying about a trade that happened 2 years ago?" LOL..one of the stupidest comments you'll ever see..how does that change the fact that it has had the biggest impact out of ANYTHING else in the current NBA?..

the Lakers title win last year had me scale back my emotions when it comes to the NBA..I watch it because it entertains me, just like how I watch TV shows and movies..I appreciate the storylines and acting in TV/movies, just like how I appreciate the talent of these players and the game of basketball..

I believe it's VERY naive to believe the NBA hasn't had anything to do with the Lakers success in this era..when a trade like the Gasol trade happens, you just have to stand back and re-think your opinion of the league..

It's the perfect trade..this trade means the NBA doesn't have to do anything involving refs..no ref scandals here, they don't want another Kings-Lakers incident..this trade ensured that their team would have the indisputable most dominant team in the NBA with very little weaknesses..this trade ends the boring Spurs era and makes sure Tim Duncan isn't the undisputed player of the decade..it ensures that Kobe stays happy after he almost cried his way out of LA..it ensures that Kobe will be the media's pick for player of the decade, and it ensures that the media will be able to legitimately talk about MJ vs. Kobe if Kobe wins a few more rings..it's all marketing and it's all perfectly planned so that they don't have to use refs with the Donaghy scandal looming..

you also throw in a Memphis team that is completely irrelevant..they have an owner that would gladly accept a payoff, and coincidentally the logo of the NBA(Mr.Laker himself) was involved with the Grizzlies..

it's all perfectly planned out..

the only people that disagree seem to be Laker fans and people that are too naive to believe that their favorite league is shady..

[Allanon]

It has everything to do with him being a center. Marc is a C/PF, Pau is a PF/C.

There you go under-estimating him again. Marc's going to be a great PF.

When that happens, I'll bump this thread for you.



I have watched him play, do you not listen? I just watched him play against the Cavs on Tuesday. I know full well that he lost a lot of weight (I believe I already brought this up), so cut the know-it-all act. Marc is a center and a plodder; losing weight doesn't change that.

Either you haven't watched him or you don't know what you are watching. Marc has played very well as a PF. You said yourself in a previous post "Bynum and Marc can't guard PF's" or something like that.

How can you say that when he hasn't been burnt by any PF's? Did you not see the job he did on Dirk?

Ask Mavs fans if Marc can guard an elite PF like Dirk... at least they watched.



When have you ever been right (I mean in direct conversation with me, after I said you were wrong, because you're acting as if that scenario has unfolded before)?

Hello, you said Marc can't guard PF's. I said he can... see Marc Gasol on Dirk. Name ANY PF that's burnt Marc Gasol....there haven't been ANY this year. His very good defense on PF's has been one of his brighter aspects this year.

You're wrong, I'm right.

And when Marc plays PF full time will you admit then you were wrong yet again?



what I'm saying is why do the majority of Lakers fans act like arrogant assholes?

Spurfan brought up this topic. I always respond when this topic is brought up by Spurfan.

You should be asking why does Spurfan constantly bring up a trade from 2 seasons ago and then expect not to get a response.

If nobody brings up this trade, I don't respond...it's simple really.



I'm not crying about anything you fucking retard, what I'm saying is why do the majority of Lakers fans act like arrogant assholes? Like they did everything better than everyone else. Just admit that you benefited from a lopsided, at the very least suspicious deal. Is that hard?

Again, you say lopsided...your ignorance is mind-boggling. Both teams got EXACTLY what they wanted and what they needed.

What the fuck is lopsided about this trade you dumb bitch?

Find me a more fair quality big man trade in the last decade. What did the teams get in return?

Where?

[TD 21]

There you go under-estimating him again. Marc's going to be a great PF.

When that happens, I'll bump this thread for you.



Either you haven't watched him or you don't know what you are watching. Marc has played very well as a PF. You said yourself in a previous post "Bynum and Marc can't guard PF's" or something like that.

How can you say that when he hasn't been burnt by any PF's? Did you not see the job he did on Dirk?

Ask Mavs fans if Marc can guard an elite PF like Dirk... at least they watched.



Hello, you said Marc can't guard PF's. I said he can... see Marc Gasol on Dirk. Name ANY PF that's burnt Marc Gasol....there haven't been ANY this year. His very good defense on PF's has been one of his brighter aspects this year.

You're wrong, I'm right.

And when Marc plays PF full time will you admit then you were wrong yet again?



Spurfan brought up this topic. I always respond when this topic is brought up by Spurfan.

You should be asking why does Spurfan constantly bring up a trade from 2 seasons ago and then expect not to get a response.

If nobody brings up this trade, I don't respond...it's simple really.



Again, you say lopsided...your ignorance is mind-boggling. Both teams got EXACTLY what they wanted and what they needed.

What the fuck is lopsided about this trade you dumb bitch?

Find me a more fair quality big man trade in the last decade. What did the teams get in return?

Where?

I'm not underestimating him, you're overestimating him you dumb fuck. Acting like this guy is amongst the elite players in the game. He doesn't rank.

How many times do I have to tell you, I've watched him? I've watched him various times and I know very well what I'm watching. I'm very knowledgeable about the game and don't need you, some asshole who lives on a message board all day, to tell me the goings on around the league. Get over yourself.

I said full time neither can guard PF's, but I also said that Gasol, like Miller and Okur, can in certain match-ups guard PF's. He has to often take on the challenge of guarding the best opposing big because Randolph is completely inept defensively. Hasn't been burnt by any? I didn't know you watch every game he plays.

Unless the Grizzlies get a franchise center, he'll never play PF full time. You're not nearly as knowledgeable as you think.

Good for you. I don't give a fuck what you do. If you knew how to read then you'd realize that I've repeatedly answered the issue I have with this trade and Lakers fans attitudes towards it. Stop being defensive and a homer.

Again, you fail to read what I said. You have to evaluate when the trade was made and this was an awfully lopsided trade at the time. It still is lopsided, just less so.

Once again, like I said, the Garnett deal was better value.

Now resume jerking off to the thought of Marc Gasol.

[Allanon]

I'm not underestimating him, you're overestimating him you dumb fuck. Acting like this guy is amongst the elite players in the game. He doesn't rank.

That is yet to be seen. He's like in the Top 5 All-Star voting, only you don't see it but thousands of fans do.



How many times do I have to tell you, I've watched him? I've watched him various times and I know very well what I'm watching. I'm very knowledgeable about the game and don't need you, some asshole who lives on a message board all day, to tell me the goings on around the league. Get over yourself.

Then it's the second answer. You watch but you don't understand.

He stopped Dirk cold.



I said full time neither can guard PF's, but I also said that Gasol, like Miller and Okur, can in certain match-ups guard PF's.

Where did you say this? Don't lie. Show me the quote. I remember what you said about this and can pull up a quote if you continue to bullshit.



Unless the Grizzlies get a franchise center, he'll never play PF full time. You're not nearly as knowledgeable as you think.

Oh, now he's gone from "can't guard PF's" to "only if he gets a franchise center". So you're saying he has the ability now? hahah, Back-pedaler.



Good for you. I don't give a fuck what you do. If you knew how to read then you'd realize that I've repeatedly answered the issue I have with this trade and Lakers fans attitudes towards it. Stop being defensive and a homer.

Hey you obviously give a fuck because you keep responding. Don't kid yourself.



Again, you fail to read what I said. You have to evaluate when the trade was made and this was an awfully lopsided trade at the time. It still is lopsided, just less so.

Why do I have to live in the past. Today, it's a very fair trade.



Once again, like I said, the Garnett deal was better value.

Now resume jerking off to the thought of Marc Gasol.

Don't get mad cuz I'm responding to Spurfan bringing up an old trade. You brought this on yourself :lol

Ok, explain how the KG deal was a better value? Don't tell me no defense Al Jefferson with a gimpy knee is better than Marc Gasol.

I'll do the Marc Gasol side to save you that work:

Grizzlies got:
2 first round draft picks
Marc Gasol
~$15 in salary relief

[TD 21]

That is yet to be seen. He's like in the Top 5 All-Star voting, only you don't see it but thousands of fans do.



Then it's the second answer. You watch but you don't understand.

He stopped Dirk cold.



Where did you say this? Don't lie. Show me the quote. I remember what you said about this and can pull up a quote if you continue to bullshit.



Oh, now he's gone from "can't guard PF's" to "only if he gets a franchise center". So you're saying he has the ability now? hahah, Back-pedaler.



Hey you obviously give a fuck because you keep responding. Don't kid yourself.



Why do I have to live in the past. Today, it's a very fair trade.



Don't get mad cuz I'm responding to Spurfan bringing up an old trade. You brought this on yourself :lol

Ok, explain how the KG deal was a better value? Don't tell me no defense Al Jefferson with a gimpy knee is better than Marc Gasol.

I'll do the Marc Gasol side to save you that work:

Grizzlies got:
2 first round draft picks
Marc Gasol
~$15 in salary relief

Yeah, because All-Star voting has always been an accurate depiction of the best players in the game, which is why McGrady and Carter are on pace to start. Because as we all know, this is 2005 and both are still considered amongst the best players in the game.

Sure I don't; but you do, based on what?

Wow, you mean he played effective (or did Nowitzki just miss shots that he normally makes?) in one specific game you saw? Let's put him on the All-defense first team!

I'm not wasting my time sifting through this thread that is essentially a short story, but it was said in this thread. So whenever I came in (page 4 I believe) you'll find it. Asking Gasol (Marc) to be a full-time PF defender is asking for trouble, though. He can lose all the weight he wants, it doesn't change the fact that he's a sub par athlete with limited lateral quickness.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the only way the Grizzlies would be dumb enough to move him to PF on a full-time basis would be if they somehow stumbled their way into a franchise center that was too good to be buried behind a 30 mpg starter.

I don't give a fuck in regards to you saying "I always respond when this topic is brought up by SpursFan". Don't kid yourself.

Because that is how you evaluate trades. At the time they were made, was it equal value or did the value project to be equal in time? The answer to both was a resounding no. You're delusional if you think it's a very fair trade and even if you think it is, then why is it that the vast majority think it isn't? Let me guess, we're all just jealous of the almighty, do-everything-better-than-everyone-else Lakers? Get real.

Brought what on myself? I don't know what it is with the posters on this board who have been around a while, but the arrogance (not saying with all, but many) is so over the top that it's beyond laughable. Get a grip.

Jefferson was a better prospect at the time and is a better player now. Gasol is having a better year, but that's because Jefferson is clearly working his way back after knee surgery and having a difficult time picking up the triangle offense. Gasol doesn't have to worry about either of those things. And it's not just Jefferson; Green was still considered a relatively high-upside player at the time, Telfair, while people realized he'd no longer be a star, was still a better prospect than Crittenton ever was and Gomes was and is a solid role player. Plus they also got a 1st round pick (or was it two?).

[cobbler]

As I said, that was from earlier in the year. As the trade happened, I recall teams being furious because they didn't know it was going down.

Then what you "said" was wrong. Chicago made an offer 3 weeks prior to trade. Regardless of that, he was on the trading block the previous year as well. Heisler/Wallace had also publically commented on how they were looking for large expiring contracts. If the Spurs or any other organization didn't persue the obvious then shame on them. Teams being furious is nothing but sour grapes and acknowledgement they dropped the ball. Get over it.


What the fuck are you talking about? People have complained (rightly so) since the day that deal went down. Like anything, with time you hear less and less of it, but people are still furious over it. I just read that within' the past two weeks.

See above... of couse there is still whining. It's what losers do. You are a prime example of it.


"Conspiricy"? Conspiracy. I'm not niave or a fanboy like you. I know full well that there has to be some wrongdoing going on in all of professional sports. Do I buy that the results are rigged? Not a chance, because no one in their right mind would risk multi-billion dollar entities over having one of their marquee teams in the Finals one year. I like watching basketball, this just so happens to be the highest level it's played at and I find it entertaining.

There is wrongdoing done in all aspects of life. Way to go out on a limb there. You and others that imply the league helped make the trade happen and that the Grizz and Lakers did anything against the rules are just blowhards. Again, put up the proof or shut up about it and move on. Now you moron crybabies say you just watch for the entertainment. If thats the case then enjoy and shutup cause the Lakers are one of the more entertaining teams in the league.


For the umpteenth time, I know he was available. But that was early in the season. Then, talk died down and then all of a sudden, out of the blue one day he's off to the Lakers. It's standard procedure in sports to inform the entire league when you're making a player available, so as to not limit your options and to maximize the return you get.

See above. The Bulls and other teams were talking to the Grizz WEEKS prior to the trade about trade scenarios. Keep munching on those gapes!


Way to cop-out, you fucking homer. The league saw their marquee franchise having a surprising year and knew full well that with one more impact player that they could contend for a championship. If that shady trade never goes down, then barring injury, to this day the Spurs are still ruling the West.

The Lakers were ALREADY contending prior to the trade. They had a better record than your precious Spurs. They were flip flopping with the Suns for best record. To this day the Spurs are still ruling the west? Have you seen your record? You are in 9th spot and haven't played the Lakers. Apparently, according to your logic, the Gasol trade allowed 7 other teams to leapfrog the mighty Spurs. :lmao


Fucking rights the problem I have with this deal is that it involved the Lakers. That's precisely what takes it from head scratching to clearly shady. When things like this and the Barry no-call and game 6 in the '02 WCF stop going the Lakers favor, then people will stop being suspicious.

Now it's the Barry no call. Geeeeeeeez. From one whine to the next. I honestly think you would be better suited being a Suns fan. You sure cry like them. :whine

[Allanon]

Yeah, because All-Star voting as always been an accurate depiction of the best players in the game, which is why McGrady and Carter are on pace to start. Because as we all know, this is 2005 and both are still considered amongst the best players in the game.

Sure I don't; but you do, based on what?

Wow, you mean he played effective (or did Nowitzki just miss shots that he normally makes?) in one specific game you saw? Let's put him on the All-defense first team!

I'm not wasting my time sifting through this thread that is essentially a short story, but it was said in this thread. So whenever I came in (page 4 I believe) you'll find it. Asking Gasol (Marc) to be a full-time PF defender is asking for trouble, though. He can lose all the weight he wants, it doesn't change the fact that he's a sub par athlete with limited lateral quickness.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the only way the Grizzlies would be dumb enough to move him to PF on a full-time basis would be if they somehow stumbled their way into a franchise center that was too good to be buried behind a 30 mpg starter.

I don't give a fuck in regards to you saying "I always respond when this topic is brought up by SpursFan". Don't kid yourself.

Because that is how you evaluate trades. At the time they were made, was it equal value and/or did the value project to be equal in time? The answer to both was a resounding no. You're delusional if you think it's a very fair trade and even if you think it is, then why is it that the vast majority think it isn't? Let me guess, we're all just jealous of the almighty, do-everything-better-than-everyone-else Lakers? Get real.

Brought what on myself? I don't know what it is with the posters on this board who have been around a while, but the arrogance (not saying with all, but many) is so over the top that it's beyond laughable. Get a grip.

Jefferson was a better prospect at the time and is a better player now. Gasol is having a better year, but that's because Jefferson is clearly working his way back after knee surgery and have a difficult time picking up the triangle offense. Gasol doesn't have to worry about either of those things. And it's not just Jefferson; Green was still considered a relatively high-upside player at the time, Telfair, while people realized he'd no longer be a star, was still a better prospect than Crittenton ever was and Gomes was and is a solid role player. Plus they also got a 1st round pick (or was it two?).

It's easy for the All Star players like VC and TMac to get on by name alone. That's what is so amazing. A no-name dude like Marc Gasol playing on the Vancouver Grizzlies is in the All Star voting.

Think about that.

You keep up with your stupid little line about Marc Gasol not being able to guard PF's. And pretending like you watch his game's but failed to realize he stopped Dirk. Just read the game thread if you want to be educated. :lol

Don't blame me for your fellow Spurs fans bringing up this topic again and again. Each time it's brought up, I respond. Don't kid yourself, this isn't a Lakerfan agenda; rather it's a Spurfan one.

Who is Green and who is Telfair? They tearing shit up on some team I don't know about? Or are you living in the past again?

Instead of admitting the Marc Gasol trade was by far fairer than the KG trade you're trying to fabricate a lie instead of seeing what's before your eyes. And as usual, Spurfan comes up with excuses for why no Defense Al Jefferson isn't playing well.

Now you can't come up with answers, only excuses...how damn typical of Spurfan, a thread had to be created for it :lol

Why do Spurs fans make excuses? (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139872&highlight=excuses)

Classic.

[TD 21]

Then what you "said" was wrong. Chicago made an offer 3 weeks prior to trade. Regardless of that, he was on the trading block the previous year as well. Heisler/Wallace had also publically commented on how they were looking for large expiring contracts. If the Spurs or any other organization didn't persue the obvious then shame on them. Teams being furious is nothing but sour grapes and acknowledgement they dropped the ball. Get over it.



See above... of couse there is still whining. It's what losers do. You are a prime example of it.



There is wrongdoing done in all aspects of life. Way to go out on a limb there. You and others that imply the league helped make the trade happen and that the Grizz and Lakers did anything against the rules are just blowhards. Again, put up the proof or shut up about it and move on. Now you moron crybabies say you just watch for the entertainment. If thats the case then enjoy and shutup cause the Lakers are one of the more entertaining teams in the league.



See above. The Bulls and other teams were talking to the Grizz WEEKS prior to the trade about trade scenarios. Keep munching on those gapes!



The Lakers were ALREADY contending prior to the trade. They had a better record than your precious Spurs. They were flip flopping with the Suns for best record. To this day the Spurs are still ruling the west? Have you seen your record? You are in 9th spot and haven't played the Lakers. Apparently, according to your logic, the Gasol trade allowed 7 other teams to leapfrog the mighty Spurs. :lmao



Now it's the Barry no call. Geeeeeeeez. From one whine to the next. I honestly think you would be better suited being a Suns fan. You sure cry like them. :whine

Typical Lakers fans. Everyone else is wrong, delusional, or jealous and everything the Lakers do is right in every possible way. Word to the wise: if you're going to attempt to talk trash, at least learn how to spell. You're going on 10 spelling errors in 2 posts.

I said, if not for that deal and injuries, then to this day the Spurs would be still ruling the West.


It's easy for the All Star players like VC and TMac to get on by name alone. That's what is so amazing. A no-name dude like Marc Gasol playing on the Vancouver Grizzlies is in the All Star voting.

Think about that.

You keep up with your stupid little line about Marc Gasol not being able to guard PF's. And pretending like you watch his game's but failed to realize he stopped Dirk. Just read the game thread if you want to be educated. :lol

Don't blame me for your fellow Spurs fans bringing up this topic again and again. Each time it's brought up, I respond. Don't kid yourself, this isn't a Lakerfan agenda; rather it's a Spurfan one.

Who is Green and who is Telfair? They tearing shit up on some team I don't know about? Or are you living in the past again?

Instead of admitting the Marc Gasol trade was by far fairer than the KG trade you're trying to fabricate a lie instead of seeing what's before your eyes. And as usual, Spurfan comes up with excuses for why no Defense Al Jefferson isn't playing well.

Now you can't come up with answers, only excuses...how damn typical of Spurfan, a thread had to be created for it :lol

Why do Spurs fans make excuses? (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139872&highlight=excuses)

Classic.

It's not at all amazing. There is no more shallow a position, in terms of star power, than West centers. Yao is out and Duncan is listed as a forward, so it's essentially down to Stoudemire (who's really a PF) and Bynum. Vancouver Grizzlies? This isn't 95-01.

I said full-time retard, learn to read. So now I'm "pretending" to watch games just because I didn't see the specific one you're referencing? And when you do watch games? Seeing as how you're on this board about 12 hours a day.

No, it's a Lakers fan agenda. Everyone else outside of Lakers fans realizes how ridiculous this trade was and is and you're here being an apologist and a homer.

At the time they were still considered decent prospects; both better prospects than Crittenton. Living in the past? That was when the deal was made you fucking idiot.

As usual? Yeah, because that's all I do, make excuses for a player who plays on a team I don't care about. That makes a lot of sense. Jefferson is a better player than Gasol (Marc). Only an uninformed retard such as yourself would think otherwise.

[Allanon]

Typical Lakers fans. Everyone else is wrong, delusional, or jealous and everything the Lakers do is right in every possible way. Word to the wise: if you're going to attempt to talk trash, at least learn how to spell. You're going on 10 spelling errors in 2 posts.

Hahah, oh yeah baby. I don't even have to read your stupid post.

As soon as a bitch brings up spelling errors, you know he's ran out of shit and lost the argument. :lol

Good job, son. :toast

[Culburn369]

Hahah, oh yeah baby. I don't even have to ready your stupid post.

As soon as a bitch brings up spelling errors, you know he's ran out of shit and lost the argument. :lol

Good job, son. :toast

Al is right, TD, the spelling indictment is the last bastion of the thoroughly vanquished. Use of the Ignore Feature is the penultimate bastion of the thoroughly vanquished.

[TD 21]

Hahah, oh yeah baby. I don't even have to read your stupid post.

As soon as a bitch brings up spelling errors, you know he's ran out of shit and lost the argument. :lol

Good job, son. :toast

So this is your way of copping out? To each his own.

Now go back to jerking off over the thought of Marc Gasol, you fucking pussy.

[Allanon]

So this is your way of copping out? To each his own.

Now go back to jerking off over the thought of Marc Gasol, you fucking pussy.

Run along now little kid.

Spelling errors. :lol

[TD 21]

Run along now little kid.

Spelling errors. :lol

Mr. Cliche himself. "Run along now".

That's right. You come off looking like an idiot when you're talking trash and making spelling errors left and right. You can't be taken seriously when you do that.

[Allanon]

Mr. Cliche himself. "Run along now".

That's right. You come off looking like an idiot when you're talking trash and making spelling errors left and right. You can't be taken seriously when you do that.

Hahah, whatever dude.

Everybody knows the loser ran out of shit so he's the one who brings up "sp3l1eng 3rrors" as his argument.

pwned :lol

[TD 21]

Hahah, whatever dude.

Everybody knows the loser ran out of shit so he's the one who brings up "sp3l1eng 3rrors" as his argument.

pwned :lol

How did I run out of shit when I responded to more than that? You're a fucking idiot. If cobbler hadn't been the typical overtly arrogant Lakers fan, then I wouldn't have brought it up. But if he/she is going to talk trash to me, then I'm going to point out how stupid they look doing so with non stop spelling errors.

[cobbler]

Typical Lakers fans. Everyone else is wrong, delusional, or jealous and everything the Lakers do is right in every possible way. Word to the wise: if you're going to attempt to talk trash, at least learn how to spell. You're going on 10 spelling errors in 2 posts.


Show me one post where I said everything he Lakers do is right. You can't.

Ouuuuuuuuuuuuuch... the ole spelling diss. What a loser.

And I wasn't talking trash... I was simply replying to all your whining, bitching, and excuses. :lmao

[Allanon]

How did I run out of shit when I responded to more than that? You're a fucking idiot. If cobbler hadn't been the typical overtly arrogant Lakers fan, then I wouldn't have brought it up. But if he/she is going to talk trash to me, then I'm going to point out how stupid they look doing so with non stop spelling errors.

If you're going to bring up "spelling errors", you don't deserve an intelligent answer.

That's weak shit, Spurfan, you lost this and you obviously started grasphing at straws.

WOW, "spelling errors" :lol

[Killakobe81]

This is still going? Look i like Marc and I think he has skills and talent but not sure he can equal Pau ...that being said I dont buy the conpiracy crap either. Memphis got what it wanted ...
The reason I dont think Marc is as good ... but only time will tell ... Pau Pau was a ROY, carried the Grizz to the playoffs 2 or 3 times (though he got swept) he is no prime Timmmay... but I do believe he is much better than his brother will ever be. And I do think Marc Gasol is very good ...Pau is a great player and sure-fire all star just not a superstar either ...

[TD 21]

No, you lost this, so you've stopped directly responding to my last basketball-related post and instead have decided to focus on a specific line not even directed at you. You're a fucking loser and this is your pathetic attempt to conceal the fact that you have officially copped-out.

[cobbler]

No, you lost this, so you've stopped directly responding to my last basketball-related post and instead have decided to focus on a specific line not even directed at you. You're a fucking loser and this is your pathetic attempt to conceal the fact that you have officially copped-out.

Dalusonal Dremar! :lmao

[Killakobe81]

Manu is more similar to Pau than Kobe ...a great player and all-star but NOT a superstar to compare the two is like comparing Joe Johnson to Kobe or Wade all 3 are shooting guards 2 are Superstars one a great player and all-star

[Allanon]

No, you lost this, so you've stopped directly responding to my last basketball-related post and instead have decided to focus on a specific line not even directed at you. You're a fucking loser and this is your pathetic attempt to conceal the fact that you have officially copped-out.

Sorry, I don't respond to the fucking spelling police.

Wow, and I thought you were better than that...stupid me :lol

[milkshakeballa]

Vancouver Grizzlies




:lol:lol:rollin:lol:lol:rollin:lol:lol





TD - you have been whining and fuckign bitching this whole thread. stop fuckign crying and shut the fuck up

[LnGrrrR]

Just throwing in two cents, but at the time of the trades, I don't think many GMs knew/thought that Marc Gasol would be better than Big Al.

[Indazone]

The rest of the league has the Lakers right where they want them. haha