Can we live without a Stopper?

[ulosturedge]

We all know that the trademark defense that won the Spurs most of their Championships included a Stopper type player that could adequately slow down or shutdown the Stars on the opposing team. For most of those years it was Bowen who gave us that last key element in our defense. Since Bowen's departure it seemed that the FO had hopes of filling that void with RJ, but as we all have noticed RJ can't bring near the level of defensive intensity and pressure that is needed to hold opposing stars in check. This has caused us to defer those duties to Bogan's and Hill, yet they themselves don't have the combination of size and length needed to pose a challenge to the likes of Kobe, Melo, Durant, and several other superstars. This has shown to be a bigger issue then I actually thought it was. It shows you how much of an impact having that type of player is. Bowen single handedly disrupted an entire teams offense by nagging star players. Watching Melo burn us the other night or in otherwords another opposing star just makes me wonder if we can find a way to manage without having one of those types of players.

[Phenomanul]

Bowen held Melo on sub 40% shooting in their last meeting...

It's a shame roster sizes can't be any larger... I wouldn't want to lose anyone on the current squad, but having Bowen around would be a good safety net... especially when he was also contributing with the corner 3.

[SA210]

can we live without a stopper?

No!

[SA210]

We all know that the trademark defense that won the Spurs most of their Championships included a Stopper type player that could adequately slow down or shutdown the Stars on the opposing team. For most of those years it was Bowen who gave us that last key element in our defense. Since Bowen's departure it seemed that the FO had hopes of filling that void with RJ, but as we all have noticed RJ can't bring near the level of defensive intensity and pressure that is needed to hold opposing stars in check. This has caused us to defer those duties to Bogan's and Hill, yet they themselves don't have the combination of size and length needed to pose a challenge to the likes of Kobe, Melo, Durant, and several other superstars. This has shown to be a bigger issue then I actually thought it was. It shows you how much of an impact having that type of player is. Bowen single handedly disrupted an entire teams offense by nagging star players. Watching Melo burn us the other night or in otherwords another opposing star just makes me wonder if we can find a way to manage without having one of those types of players.

Shouldn't have let Bruce go. Even if he rode the bench, at least we could use him in emergency purposes.

We need to bring him back. I doubt it will happen, because Pop doesn't like when people question him.

[portnoy1]

I'm waiting for poster sa210 or whatever his name is to go boinkers with this thread. Truth be told its the defensive rotations and lack of a legit defensive big. Mcdyess/Bonner/Blair and even Ratliff have weaknesses. Mcdyess is pretty solid but can he guard a rashard lewis/Lamar Odom. Bonner will hustle but is not quick enough to guard Odoms/Lewis' and not strong enough to handle solid post players like Gasol/Shaq heck even Sheed. Blair is to short and not defensively sound yet. Ratliff (many feel he is the best option) is old and can only play a certain amount of minutes. Also he isnt versatile enough to play against quicker 4's in the league. And we all know Tim guards centers cause perimeter PF's will eat his lunch cause he is older and too slow. My point is that your perimeter defenders are only as good as the backline help. A better, versatile/defensive C-F would make Bogans/Hill/RJ look alot better. Just like Robinson made slow-poke Mario Elie look good guarding lightning fast Sprewell.

[portnoy1]

Shouldn't have let Bruce go. Even if he rode the bench, at least we could use him in emergency purposes.

We need to bring him back. I doubt it will happen, because Pop doesn't like when people question him.
couldnt post quick enough.:lol:lol:lol

[TJastal]

We can, but it would be alot easier with a defensive stopper that has the tools to slow down the bigger guards and forwards of the league. Keith Bogans is not tall enough and his wingspan is probably a good foot shorter than Bowen's. His physical stature makes him good against the shorter, bulkier guards around the league such as Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd, but as we saw against the Ray Allen, he has problems against guys that can elevate. He's very easy to shoot over the top of.

Back a year or so ago, I wanted the spurs to try to sign Mikael Pietrus to fill this need to get themselves a defensive stopper with some length to guard those 6'6"-6'10" athletic superstars that are dominating the NBA currently. The list is becoming huge, and the spurs are going to have problems with all of them this year.

Carmelo Anthony
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Danny Granger
Josh Howard
Kevin Durant
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Dwayne Wade
Brandon Roy

I gotta give credit to Otis Smith, I think he was the only GM at the time that was targetting Pietrus while everyone else was going nuts over that pile of horseshit Corey Maggette.

[LOL@MavsFan]

No!

I am surprised you said NO considering what player happens to be in your sig. :lol

[21_Blessings]

No the they can't. Just look at the way Kobe carved the Spurs up in 08. Hill, Bogans, Manu? Not gonna cut it.

Truth be told the Spurs should have went after Trevor Ariza - hard. Most effective Kobe defender in the league currently.

[urunobili]

Truth be told the Spurs should have went after Trevor Ariza - hard. Most effective Kobe defender in the league currently.

21_Blessing never fails to depress me... :depressed

[spurspokesman]

No the they can't. Just look at the way Kobe carved the Spurs up in 08. Hill, Bogans, Manu? Not gonna cut it.

Truth be told the Spurs should have went after Trevor Ariza - hard. Most effective Kobe defender in the league currently.
I had courtney lee on my list or pietrus. Both can score and defend and shoot better than rj. Although rj is still the better player.

[taps]

... Watching Melo burn us the other night or in otherwords another opposing star...

who is leading the entire NBA in scoring

[Flux451]

I can't live without a popper stopper.

[rascal]

We all know that the trademark defense that won the Spurs most of their Championships included a Stopper type player that could adequately slow down or shutdown the Stars on the opposing team. For most of those years it was Bowen who gave us that last key element in our defense. Since Bowen's departure it seemed that the FO had hopes of filling that void with RJ, but as we all have noticed RJ can't bring near the level of defensive intensity and pressure that is needed to hold opposing stars in check. This has caused us to defer those duties to Bogan's and Hill, yet they themselves don't have the combination of size and length needed to pose a challenge to the likes of Kobe, Melo, Durant, and several other superstars. This has shown to be a bigger issue then I actually thought it was. It shows you how much of an impact having that type of player is. Bowen single handedly disrupted an entire teams offense by nagging star players. Watching Melo burn us the other night or in otherwords another opposing star just makes me wonder if we can find a way to manage without having one of those types of players.

That formula of adding a so called stopper and the team is a championship team won't work anymore. And Bowen never really ever stopped Bryant. The Lakers have beaten the spurs many times with Bowen on the floor.

The lakers are better than any other team the spurs faced in their title runs.

What is more important is shoring up the frontcout with a quality impact 7footer that can defend the paint.

[koriwhat]

we dont have to live without one... unleash hairston! come on already pop!

[SamoanTD]

yes we can

[EmptyMan]

Sons, give George Hill a little more time.

[SenorSpur]

Since Bowen's departure it seemed that the FO had hopes of filling that void with RJ, but as we all have noticed RJ can't bring near the level of defensive intensity and pressure that is needed to hold opposing stars in check.

I really hope the FO wasn't expecting RJ to become a lockdown defender, when they brought him in. It's not as though he had that reputation before and being a player in his 9th season, it's not as though he was going to turn into a facsimile of that type of player. Probably, the best we can hope for with RJ, is that he becomes at least an average defender.

I agree with 21_Blessings in that Spurs should've strongly explored the option of bringing in Trevor Ariza. In fact, I called for the Spurs to do just that once it became obvious that Ariza was going to be available. This is not to denigrate RJ, but Ariza would've been a younger, cheaper option, and a player who possesses some of the intangibles needed for the Spurs to maintain their level of defensive ability. For that matter, it would've been nice to have obtained them both - but I'm just dreamin'.


This has shown to be a bigger issue then I actually thought it was. It shows you how much of an impact having that type of player is. Bowen single handedly disrupted an entire teams offense by nagging star players. Watching Melo burn us the other night or in otherwords another opposing star just makes me wonder if we can find a way to manage without having one of those types of players.
We all know just how vital Bowen was to the Spurs success - especially on the defensive end. This guy was almost like a shutdown cornerback in the game of football, in that he could literally take his opponent out of the game. It's damn near impossible to replace his contributions and what he meant to the team. I very much like the acquisition of Bogans, but your point is well made. Having such a defensive stopper on the roster is critical to the Spurs defensive success. A long, tall, rangy, athletic defender, who can go up against the likes of LeBron, Melo and others.

This is why I was so very disappointed that the Spurs weren't able to land Nicolas Batum in the 2008 NBA draft. As much as I love George Hill and am very happy he's on the squad. Yet, I would take Batum over Hill, simply based on glaring need this team still has for such a player, at the SF position. Again, my greed overcomes me as I imagine the Spurs having both those guys on the roster. How sweet would that be?

One can only hope that the Spurs will target and finally acquire a long, athletic SF with next year's 1st round pick. The long-awaited "Derrick McKey" player that Pop has mentioned in the past.

[sananspursfan21]

i have confidence in hill and bogans. give them a little while, if i remember, bowen wasn't playing his best defense until about 5 years ago. he was always good, it took about 3 years of patience before he was a true ultimate defender

[fotan2]

do the Celtics have a stopper? quit making excuses. it's the problem of the team, not any individuals.

[TIMMYD!]

do the Celtics have a stopper? quit making excuses. it's the problem of the team, not any individuals.

I agree, it's not just about one single player its the team as a whole.

[SenorSpur]

You'd better check again. The Celtics have players who are good defenders. Garnett, Wallace, Perkins and Rondo. Garnett is a perennial all-defensive team member. Rondo, if he's not already, will be. He's probably their best defender.

[fotan2]

all right, none of the spurs is good defender compare to celtic, I guess that is what you are saying.

[ffadicted]

I want Battier in a spurs uniform, come on houston, do us a solid and repay for scola lol

[nuclearfm]

No justification needed.

"Can we live without a Stopper?"

Answer: FUCK NO

[024]

time for a battier to spurs trade.

[stealthjbravo]

No justification needed.

"Can we live without a Stopper?"

Answer: FUCK NO

Agree. This team is in serious need of a Bowen type player

[TJastal]

No the they can't. Just look at the way Kobe carved the Spurs up in 08. Hill, Bogans, Manu? Not gonna cut it.

Truth be told the Spurs should have went after Trevor Ariza - hard. Most effective Kobe defender in the league currently.

Your right 21, Ariza would defenitely help the spurs situation. Alot.

Too bad Ariza wasn't a free agent a year ago when the spurs had the midlevel exception to spend and were in the market for a swingman. Maggette, Pietrus, and Mason were the free agents available at the time that fit what the spurs were looking for. While Popovich was busy wooing Maggette, Otis Smith quickly snatched Pietrus up for the midlevel. Couple days later, Maggette signed a contract with the warriors after playing the spurs for a fool. They ended up with Roger Mason on a short term deal.

Now.. they did have have that kind of cash available this year too, but with Thomas and Oberto gone they kind of had to use it for a big man, which ended up being McDyess.

[21_Blessings]

You guys might just have to settle for good ol' Raja Bell. He'll be real fresh come playoffs.

Heh.

[ElNono]

What's with insecure Lakerfans that were MIA before the Gasol trade?

Now they're supposed to know anything about basketball?

GTFO

[TJastal]

You guys might just have to settle for good ol' Raja Bell. He'll be real fresh come playoffs.

Heh.

Raja Bell is about the same size as Bogans I believe. Not big enough in other words.

Shane Battier would be great however.

[21_Blessings]

Yes but is Bogans bitch enough to clothesline Kobe in a playoff series?

[z0sa]

If we signed Ariza, we could not have signed McDyess. If one simply takes all factors into account, he will see that signing a big man with the MLE was much more a priority, and indeed, ownership would not have had it any different.

[ceperez]

We can, but it would be alot easier with a defensive stopper that has the tools to slow down the bigger guards and forwards of the league. Keith Bogans is not tall enough and his wingspan is probably a good foot shorter than Bowen's. His physical stature makes him good against the shorter, bulkier guards around the league such as Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd, but as we saw against the Ray Allen, he has problems against guys that can elevate. He's very easy to shoot over the top of.

Back a year or so ago, I wanted the spurs to try to sign Mikael Pietrus to fill this need to get themselves a defensive stopper with some length to guard those 6'6"-6'10" athletic superstars that are dominating the NBA currently. The list is becoming huge, and the spurs are going to have problems with all of them this year.

Carmelo Anthony
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Danny Granger
Josh Howard
Kevin Durant
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Dwayne Wade
Brandon Roy

I gotta give credit to Otis Smith, I think he was the only GM at the time that was targetting Pietrus while everyone else was going nuts over that pile of horseshit Corey Maggette.

Agree. If RJ isn't that stopper, then we definitely are in deep trouble because there's nobody else in our team with that length and athleticism (unless you count Haislip in the mix).

[Chomag]

i have confidence in hill and bogans. give them a little while, if i remember, bowen wasn't playing his best defense until about 5 years ago. he was always good, it took about 3 years of patience before he was a true ultimate defender

Hill and Bogans are great stoppers imo but they have size limitations especially when we would go up agaisnt Kobe, Lebron, Melo, among the many powerhouses. These guys are just way to big and strong for our current "Stoppers"

[SenorSpur]

Your right 21, Ariza would defenitely help the spurs situation. Alot.

Too bad Ariza wasn't a free agent a year ago when the spurs had the midlevel exception to spend and were in the market for a swingman. Maggette, Pietrus, and Mason were the free agents available at the time that fit what the spurs were looking for. While Popovich was busy wooing Maggette, Otis Smith quickly snatched Pietrus up for the midlevel. Couple days later, Maggette signed a contract with the warriors after playing the spurs for a fool. They ended up with Roger Mason on a short term deal.

Now.. they did have have that kind of cash available this year too, but with Thomas and Oberto gone they kind of had to use it for a big man, which ended up being McDyess.

I, for one, have always thought Pietrus would've made a fine addition. Yet somehow the Spurs FO, and many on this board, turned their collective noses up on this guy. All I know is that he was a significant contributor to an Orlando team that made it to the NBA Finals. And he's younger and cheaper than RJ. Still like RJ and hope he pans out, but right now, it doesn't look good.

[kace]

I'm waiting for poster sa210 or whatever his name is to go boinkers with this thread. Truth be told its the defensive rotations and lack of a legit defensive big. Mcdyess/Bonner/Blair and even Ratliff have weaknesses. Mcdyess is pretty solid but can he guard a rashard lewis/Lamar Odom. Bonner will hustle but is not quick enough to guard Odoms/Lewis' and not strong enough to handle solid post players like Gasol/Shaq heck even Sheed. Blair is to short and not defensively sound yet. Ratliff (many feel he is the best option) is old and can only play a certain amount of minutes. Also he isnt versatile enough to play against quicker 4's in the league. And we all know Tim guards centers cause perimeter PF's will eat his lunch cause he is older and too slow. My point is that your perimeter defenders are only as good as the backline help. A better, versatile/defensive C-F would make Bogans/Hill/RJ look alot better. Just like Robinson made slow-poke Mario Elie look good guarding lightning fast Sprewell.


not so often, but i agree with you.

Our bigs used to make our good perimeter defenders look great and our average perimeter defenders look solid.

Bruce, as a defensive freak, used to play elite offensive player straight and had succes. Still, being backed by defensive bigs helped him.

but for others like TP, it's very clear. tony often used to block only one side of his man, daring him to attack the bigs on the other. now, not so much and we see how much it really helped.