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DMX7
12-07-2009, 06:00 PM
The EPA on Monday found that carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases threaten public health, a strategically timed action that is likely to resonate internationally as the world begins talks on a climate change treaty at a U.N. summit in Copenhagen.

The so-called endangerment finding triggers a requirement that the federal government regulate fossil fuel emissions under the Clean Air Act (PL 101-549) and puts new pressure on Congress to enact climate change legislation.

"The message to Congress is crystal clear: Get moving," said Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., the point-man in efforts to write a bipartisan Senate global warming bill.

The White House has held the threat of the endangerment finding over the heads of Congress for months, and it rolled out the announcement on the first day of international climate change negotiations in Copenhagen.

With climate change legislation stalled behind the health care debate, the announcement gives President Obama something tangible to demonstrate that the U.S. is serious about following through on promises to cut carbon emissions. That could have a profound impact on the outcome of the climate negotiations -- which, in turn, could give momentum to prospects for a climate bill in the Senate.

"This is the price of admission," said Kevin Book, managing director of research at ClearView Energy Partners, a strategy and consulting firm. "We can't credibly negotiate with other countries unless we do something. Today, legally speaking, we will have done something. The final endangerment finding means that we will have committed irrevocably to action. And the first and most likely response is that Congress will pass a new law. This is a checkmate for Congress."

EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson called the findings "long overdue" and said they "cement 2009's place in history as the year when the United States Government began addressing the challenge of greenhouse-gas pollution and seizing the opportunity of clean-energy reform."

But many lawmakers, business organizations and interest groups see the blunt instrument of EPA regulation as a nightmare scenario. They would prefer Congress to write legislation that they could play a significant role in shaping.

"It means we can't ignore the issue," said Senate Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin, D-Ill. "If we don't come up with a reasonable way to reduce [carbon dioxide] and greenhouse gas emissions working with business and labor and interest groups, then we may face decisions by the EPA which are very tough on a lot of people."

The EPA said its finding reflects a thorough examination of the scientific evidence and careful consideration of public comment. The agency found that emissions of heat-trapping gases such as carbon dioxide can lead to longer and more intense heat waves that threaten the health of the sick, poor and elderly and can increase ground-level ozone pollution linked to such respiratory diseases as asthma.

The findings respond to a 2007 Supreme Court ruling that greenhouse gases fall within the Clean Air Act definition of air pollutants. The EPA action does not impose any new emission reduction requirements, but it allows the agency to proceed with rulemaking.

"I think this is going to provide incentive for people to engage on climate change," said Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D. "The prospect of EPA regulation is a significant incentive to engage, no doubt about it."

Skeptics Question the Science Republicans who have been fighting a climate bill acknowledged as much, and slammed the move.

"The elected Congress, not an administrative agency, should write the laws governing the economy's response to climate change," said Tennessee Republican Lamar Alexander, who chairs the Senate Republican Conference. "The costs of compliance with the EPA's unilateral announcement today could run into hundreds of billions of dollars a year - costs borne by average Americans through huge increases in their electric bills and at the gas pump. This is an especially bad idea when unemployment is at 10 percent."

Jackson stressed that congressional action remains the administration's first choice. While Monday's decision authorizes the EPA to set a timetable to begin curbing emissions, Jackson has not laid out a schedule and said she still hoped Congress would act first.

In attacking the EPA action, Republicans cited the recent controversy over a series of hacked e-mails from the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit, in which climate scientists refer to using a "trick" to "hide the decline" in preparing some climate change data.

"Today's EPA action mimics the e-mails in one respect: It demonstrates that public relations priorities rather than straightforward science are driving U.S. policy-making on global warming," said Rep. Joe L. Barton of Texas, the ranking Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee and a leading skeptic of global warming science.

"There is nothing in the hacked e-mails that undermines the science on which the decision was made," Jackson said. "This issue has not raised new questions that are not already addressed in this finding."

Jackson said skeptics are using the e-mails to sow doubts about the scientific basis for concern about global warming.

"It's no wonder that many people are confused," she said. "But raising doubts -- even in the face of overwhelming evidence -- is a tactic that has been used by defenders of the status quo for years . . . It's time that we let the science speak for itself. In making this finding, we relied on decades of sound, peer-reviewed, extensively evaluated scientific data."

Copenhagen Talks Impacted Meanwhile, Jackson said that White House hopes that timing of the announcement, on the first day of the Copenhagen talks, will send a clear signal to the rest of the world and strengthen the U.S. negotiating position.

"It also means that we arrive at the climate talks in Copenhagen with a clear demonstration of our commitment to facing this global challenge," Jackson said. "We hope that today's announcement serves as another incentive for far-reaching accords in our meetings this week."

At the center of the Copenhagen negotiations is the question of whether major carbon emitting countries will commit to binding targets for carbon emissions cuts.

While President Obama has said he intends to commit the U.S. to slashing carbon emissions in the range of 17 percent by 2020, international negotiators are wary of the promise, questioning whether Congress will follow through on enacting legislation.

The House passed legislation in June (HR 2454) mandating a 17 percent emission reduction cut by 2020, but moderate Senate Democrats from coal, farm and rust belt states have raised myriad concerns about the impact on their home-state industries.

A chief concern from many moderate Democrats has been the question of whether to commit the U.S. to cutting carbon emissions without similar commitments from the world's other major emitters, India and China.

In Copenhagen, the EPA announcement could signal to India and China that the U.S. will make the carbon cuts even without cooperation from an unwilling Congress. That could help ensure commitments from those countries - which could in turn go further to bring along the support from those critical swing vote moderates.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20091207/pl_cq_politics/politics3260419_6

DarrinS
12-07-2009, 06:20 PM
And yet, life of humans and other animals would be impossible without CO2.

Life-giving, yet harmful.

Interesting.

Crookshanks
12-07-2009, 06:25 PM
This is going to have a devastating effect on our economy. And what are we supposed to do - stop exhaling? Idiots!!!!!!

InRareForm
12-07-2009, 06:27 PM
i wanna throw up.

Viva Las Espuelas
12-07-2009, 08:19 PM
So are we to chop down all the rainforests? Chop down all the redwoods in Cali? Kill all forms of plants and trees? These jackasses. And the people that fall in line with it.


So much for "restoring science" mr president.

xeromass
12-07-2009, 09:09 PM
Why exactly would you chop down forests?

jacobdrj
12-07-2009, 10:09 PM
NaCl is life-giving and harmful.

So is dihydrogen oxide.

jacobdrj
12-07-2009, 10:12 PM
May take on greenhouse gasses and emissions is like it was back when California imposed those strict regulations against smog: The market decides how to deal with this. We shouldn't worry about CO2 in the atmostphere, because we have no power over what other countries do, not to mention our own population... But if people start having issues with breathing smog, you bet legislation is going to be passed to fix it. And I was surprised at just how well those laws worked in California. My dad marvels at how much cleaner the air in LA is now than it was 25 years ago.

Wild Cobra
12-07-2009, 10:22 PM
NaCl is life-giving and harmful.

So is dihydrogen oxide.
No kidding. Shouldn't they regulate these also?

jacobdrj
12-08-2009, 12:00 AM
Dihydrogen oxide is also one of the most potent greenhouse gasses, and nuclear power plants are constantly spewing the stuff into the atmosphere...

TDMVPDPOY
12-08-2009, 01:33 AM
doesnt make a difference, the producers would just move their factories to a shit country and pollute there....

sabar
12-08-2009, 02:54 AM
doesnt make a difference, the producers would just move their factories to a shit country and pollute there....

Not In My BackYard

Most people only care about localized pollutants, reasonably so. I mean, who actually wants to live in Los Angeles?


NaCl is life-giving and harmful.

So is dihydrogen oxide.

Well I've probably been injured from gaseous dihydrogen oxide more than from gaseous carbon.
It looks innocuous yet can give pretty deep burns.

Wild Cobra
12-08-2009, 09:32 PM
Not In My BackYard
Well I've probably been injured from gaseous dihydrogen oxide more than from gaseous carbon.
It looks innocuous yet can give pretty deep burns.
Me too. It can be very dangerous if you don't treat it with respect!

Maybe we should all write our congressmen and have them ban the stuff!

Phenomanul
12-09-2009, 01:33 AM
The EPA has become such a joke...

have they no shame?

101A
12-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Any Democrats/Liberals/etc. concerned AT ALL about sweeping regulations of CO2?

Any twinge of doubt about the science?

This is serious, economy changing stuff coming at us full steam, and there is, more than ever, hints that it could be based on less than honest research data?

Is there any regulation that could be proposed regarding greenhouse gasses that would concern you?

Just wondering.

DarrinS
12-09-2009, 11:24 AM
Any Democrats/Liberals/etc. concerned AT ALL about sweeping regulations of CO2?

Any twinge of doubt about the science?

This is serious, economy changing stuff coming at us full steam, and there is, more than ever, hints that it could be based on less than honest research data?

Is there any regulation that could be proposed regarding greenhouse gasses that would concern you?

Just wondering.



I never questioned the science of "global warming"/"climate change" until Al Gore started telling everyone that the science was settled and the debate was over. If the science is truly settled, then there's really no need to make these statements. Someone saying "the science of gravity is settled" would be patently absurd. And the whole "concensus" issue is ridiculous. It only takes one scientist and one set of inconvenient data to prove a theory wrong. For example, a theory that "all swans are white" could be falsified by the discovery of a single black swan.

coyotes_geek
12-09-2009, 11:25 AM
Any Democrats/Liberals/etc. concerned AT ALL about sweeping regulations of CO2?

Any twinge of doubt about the science?

This is serious, economy changing stuff coming at us full steam, and there is, more than ever, hints that it could be based on less than honest research data?

Is there any regulation that could be proposed regarding greenhouse gasses that would concern you?

Just wondering.

Hold on a second. Are you suggesting that between scientists discarding data and refusing peer reviews and governments warning of a crisis that can only be averted by giving the government more money there is something to be skeptical of?

Unfortunately, global warming isn't the only crisis looming on the horizon. The chupacabra's are going to kill us all. I've got the proof, but it's a secret. You can trust me though. After I systematically discount anyone who disagrees with me as not being credible, I can say with absolute certainty that there is no credible opposition to my research on the chupacabra apocalypse. Don't worry though. If you give me a bunch of money I can save us all. Now if you'll pardon me I have to go to an exotic resort location to confer with some of my fellow CA colleagues.

101A
12-09-2009, 04:52 PM
Any Democrats/Liberals/etc. concerned AT ALL about sweeping regulations of CO2?

Any twinge of doubt about the science?

This is serious, economy changing stuff coming at us full steam, and there is, more than ever, hints that it could be based on less than honest research data?

Is there any regulation that could be proposed regarding greenhouse gasses that would concern you?

Just wondering.

'guess not.

SAGambler
12-09-2009, 04:58 PM
Hold on a second. Are you suggesting that between scientists discarding data and refusing peer reviews and governments warning of a crisis that can only be averted by giving the government more money there is something to be skeptical of?

Unfortunately, global warming isn't the only crisis looming on the horizon. The chupacabra's are going to kill us all. I've got the proof, but it's a secret. You can trust me though. After I systematically discount anyone who disagrees with me as not being credible, I can say with absolute certainty that there is no credible opposition to my research on the chupacabra apocalypse. Don't worry though. If you give me a bunch of money I can save us all. Now if you'll pardon me I have to go to an exotic resort location to confer with some of my fellow CA colleagues.

So :lmao:lmao:lmao but so true.:toast:toast