Worries about RJs heart

[ropv]

He doesn't seem to care enough on D. He has all the tools. Pop needs to find a way to get in his head.

[Sigz]

RJ is overrated. In fact, he's always been overrated.

What did you guys REALLY expect from him?

[Johnny RIngo]

He's a soft player with no heart. Doesn't help that he canceled his wedding prior to coming to the Spurs. We should have went after a player without any emotional baggage like Carter or S-Jax

[Sigz]

And I think he's gay.

[Dro210]

VC and Buckets' emotions are a good thing ON the court

[ajballer4]

As soon as this is posted...RJ stuffs Okur

[NZ Spurs]

As soon as this is posted...RJ stuffs Okur

Not to mention the great D Jefferson has been playing all night.

[SenorSpur]

Not quite ready to call him a failure. Give him some more time.

[ropv]

I'm not saying we give up on him. In fact I'm saying the exact opposite.

[EmptyMan]

lol he had a crucial block late in tonight's game.

[redzero]

So much for the best acquisition of the offseason.

[5in10]

Rj showed me tonight that he's capable of being a good defender ,I'll give him more time.

[TinTin]

He's a soft player with no heart. Doesn't help that he canceled his wedding prior to coming to the Spurs. We should have went after a player without any emotional baggage like Carter or S-Jax

:rollin:rollin

[nuclearfm]

Pop is clueless on how to motivate players.

RJ is worthless on this team with this coach. Mark my Words

[Höfner]

Pop is clueless on how to motivate players.

RJ is worthless on this team with this coach. Mark my Words

Marked.

[ropv]

Did someone say "without baggage" in reference to Stephen Jackson? I'm confused.

[duhoh]

S-Jax without emotional baggage? :bang
what are these days coming too?

[easy7]

He seems lost out there. How about getting him a GPS for christmas?

[Spursmania]

So much for the best acquisition of the offseason.

He's definitely not playing up to expectations. It's pretty sad we have so much talent and still can't win games...

[HarlemHeat37]

Jefferson was 3-6 with 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and 1 clutch block..again, what do you guys want him to do?..

He's supposed to be the #3/4 option..it looks worse when our #2 and #3 options are playing horrible basketball right now..

The organization is supposed to do their homework before they acquire somebody..you would think that they would have looked into this..it doesn't appear that they have, since this was the 1st game all season where they actually got him a few plays, and he actually produced..hopefully it continues..

[bless1187]

I think Tony and Pop has a lot to blame for RJ's struggles. I don't buy the fact that RJ has lost a step and can no longer create for himself; look at the game early in the season when RJ was still getting touches on offense, he was attacking the basket at will and was either a layup, dunk, or a foul. Over the last few games, especially since Tony returned to the lineup, he's been getting very minimal touches on offense, 6 FGA in 35 minutes for tonight?!?!?!

i might get flamed by some of you in here for saying this, but i do believe that Tony is one of the hardest PG to play with in this league... Like some of the other elite PG in the league, they pick there spots on when to get your teammates going and when to get himself going... since it bothers me that Tony is always dribbling and looking to score for himself, than pass it out when theres no other option... this works fine when its spot up shooters in the game such as M. Bonner, R. Mason, or M. Finley... i really don't know why we traded for RJ to only turn him into a spot up shooter in which he's not.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's actually funny, the guy only took 6 shots and made a great clutch play..

I understand comments from guys like Ringo that he's soft, because he is..but your #3/4 guy can get a pass on that..he's not here to be the main guy..there are 2 guys in front of him that are playing very poor basketball right now, and it reflects on everybody..

[objective]

He's not as fast as he used to be.

He can only be called 'athletic' compared to Finley and Udoka and Mason. He's not anything more than above average in athleticism by NBA SF standards anymore, and a lot of nights he looks just plain average/mediocre athletically.

[ploto]

i really don't know why we traded for RJ to only turn him into a spot up shooter which he's not.

Ask Hedo. Maybe he figured it out.

[Dro210]

It's actually funny, the guy only took 6 shots and made a great clutch play..

I understand comments from guys like Ringo that he's soft, because he is..but your #3/4 guy can get a pass on that..he's not here to be the main guy..there are 2 guys in front of him that are playing very poor basketball right now, and it reflects on everybody..

He can get a pass on a few off nights.... nobody should get a pass for being soft. Not even Ian in his suit. No excuses for being soft.

That said... I don't blame anything on RJ right now

[Johnny RIngo]

Jefferson was 3-6 with 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and 1 clutch block..again, what do you guys want him to do?..

He's supposed to be the #3/4 option..it looks worse when our #2 and #3 options are playing horrible basketball right now..

The organization is supposed to do their homework before they acquire somebody..you would think that they would have looked into this..it doesn't appear that they have, since this was the 1st game all season where they actually got him a few plays, and he actually produced..hopefully it continues..

Spot on about this. It's baffling that the Spurs FO would trade for a player that doesn't fit into their system. They're paid big bucks to do this shit.

[The Truth #6]

The problem right now is that Tony is one dimensional and Manu is zero dimensional. Everyone blames RJ. Dice looks lost and unmotivated often. Bogans can only hit layups. Lots of blame to go around.

[EricB]

He fits the system. The problem is that the players don't know how to fit INTO the system yet.

You people that expected this team to play fantastic and perfect out of the game were setting yourselves up for disappointment and where told that back in September and August.

[mexicanjunior]

You people that expected this team to play fantastic and perfect out of the game were setting yourselves up for disappointment and where told that back in September and August.

There is a difference between "fantastic and perfect" and a record of .500 losing to every good team it faces.

[z0sa]

RJ played pretty damn solid on D tonight.

[Dro210]

There's a fine line in the NBA between winning and losing.... If everybody's not on the same page, you lose... and we're not getting blown out. I'm not worried.

[EricB]

There is a difference between "fantastic and perfect" and a record of .500 losing to every good team it faces.


:lol

Again, your playing teams that have played together for years together.

Boston, Denver, Utah.

Teams that have played cohesively together for YEARS.

You expected them to match THEM THAT quick?


You don't know shit about ball if you did.

[EricB]

There's a fine line in the NBA between winning and losing.... If everybody's not on the same page, you lose... and we're not getting blown out. I'm not worried.

If this team was getting RUN OFF the court then I'd be worried.

But they aren't.

These last three losses were lost in all different matters BUT, theres one thing that has been good was the 4th quarter defenses have stepped up and made plays.

The Boston game they did, Denver they forced tough bad shots, and tonight they forced tough shots and got key stops and blocks (Jefferson's on Okur).


The team isn't gonna start being cohesive until middle january, but the defense is coming along.

[mexicanjunior]

:lol

Again, your playing teams that have played together for years together.

Boston, Denver, Utah.

Teams that have played cohesively together for YEARS.

You expected them to match THEM THAT quick?

You don't know shit about ball if you did.

Are those the only teams they have lost to? I guess world beaters like OKC and Chicago should be written off to other teams having an experience edge on the Spurs. Since SA has not been together for "YEARS", should this experimental season be a write off? :lol

[Dro210]

If this team was getting RUN OFF the court then I'd be worried.

But they aren't.

These last three losses were lost in all different matters BUT, theres one thing that has been good was the 4th quarter defenses have stepped up and made plays.

The Boston game they did, Denver they forced tough bad shots, and tonight they forced tough shots and got key stops and blocks (Jefferson's on Okur).


The team isn't gonna start being cohesive until middle january, but the defense is coming along.


Completely agree...... Unless we look like this in March, it's all good.

[nuclearfm]

:lol

Again, your playing teams that have played together for years together.

Boston, Denver, Utah.

Teams that have played cohesively together for YEARS.

You expected them to match THEM THAT quick?


You don't know shit about ball if you did.

You forgot OKC. The most experienced team in the NBA

[EricB]

You forgot OKC. The most experienced team in the NBA


Yeah break up the team over that loss too.

John Lucas baby!

[Dro210]

Are those the only teams they have lost to? I guess world beaters like OKC and Chicago should be written off to other teams having an experience edge on the Spurs. Since SA has not been together for "YEARS", should this experimental season be a write off? :lol

Spurs beat the more athletic teams like OKC and Chicago by being a better TEAM. Playing together, playing smart.... Right now we are not a good TEAM.

We will be.


and btw, OKC is not a joke anymore.

[gospursgojas]

RICHARD JEFFERSON.....There's no more excuses you can give this guy.

He contributes NOTHING to winning a ball game.

I've been one of the biggest bonner bashers here and he changed my mind tonight. He was all heart!

I only pray RJ does the same.

[stealthjbravo]

RJ is a complete waste of meat

[murpjf88]

RJ's got heart, he's just got no game.

[mexicanjunior]

Spurs beat the more athletic teams like OKC and Chicago by being a better TEAM. Playing together, playing smart.... Right now we are not a good TEAM.

We will be.


and btw, OKC is not a joke anymore.

Your optimism is commendable and you are right, OKC is not a joke, which is why they are higher in the West standings than SA...and I would not be surprised if they stayed that way.

EricBTPark's point though was all these losses can be justified by this team not being together for "years" (which apparently didn't matter to Boston in 2008)...so I guess it stands to reason that this team won't be able to contend with above mediocre teams until they have a year together under their belt.

[murpjf88]

Yeah break up the team over that loss too.

John Lucas baby!

Are you kidding? Every team in the league can break down a game and come up with a reason for losing (even new jersey). The only difference is the good teams make the necessary corrections to fix the problems. The spurs make the same damn mistakes game after game. They just don't get it.

[#2!]

Yeah break up the team over that loss too.

John Lucas baby!


Are you kidding? Every team in the league can break down a game and come up with a reason for losing (even new jersey). The only difference is the good teams make the necessary corrections to fix the problems. The spurs make the same damn mistakes game after game. They just don't get it.

Not that the two of you don't occasionally have a good point, but you have both been annoying as fuck lately. Please take some time off from posting, and/or change the way you do things.


TPark, making a sneering comment that does not debate that actual issues being discussed does not make your arguments better (even if what you say is correct.


murpjf88, just because someone makes a negative comment about the team doesn't mean you have to suck that poster's dick. We get it, you don't think the Spurs are good this year, and that's okay, just try and come up with something interesting to say occasionally.

[bigdog]

Half the players out there don't look completely motivated. I don't hink RJ should be singled out. It also doesn't help that Pop allows TP to call plays on his own, plays that are designed mostly for him or TD. Spurs basketball is perfect for RJ. He's made some excellent cuts, but no one finds him on the cuts. When he posts up, spacing on the floor isn't always great. On fastbreaks, there have been many times where RJ could have gotten the ball but TP refuses to pass the ball 99% of the time.

If he's still playing like this in Late February/Early march, I'll be worried. Right now, give them some time. He's playing in a completely different kind of system right now than he's ever played in.

[Chieflion]

Again, what the hell do you want from an offensive player only getting to shoot 6 shots a game? He scored on half of those attempts. He played some defense enough to go by so he was not the reason we lost tonight.

[Homeland Security]

How typical that you people would point the finger at the pole smoker. He's been pretty much the player he's been for the past few years, only with fewer touches. No, he's not good enough for what the Spurs need him to be given all the other breakdowns on the team, but that's beside the point.

Here's your problem.

1) Tim Duncan is older and in decline. This shows up most on defense, where he can't hold down the paint by himself like he used to.

2) The other big men who get minutes are either undersized, unathletic, or inexperienced at NBA defense. Therefore, the Spurs' interior defense is mediocre at best.

3) Tony Parker is not keeping up his torrid pace of the past couple of years. He is merely very good as opposed to All-NBA.

4) Manu Ginobili is finished. Done. Over. Goodbye. You've now seen what's left of him -- give him several months off and he can last about three weeks before his body starts to break down.

5) The guy who made the Spurs' perimeter defense what it was is now retired and wearing bowties on the ESPN set. And it turns out that Richard Jefferson simply can't fill his shoes.

Of those, the only one with a reasonable chance of improving is number three -- Tony Parker could turn it up a notch over the last three-fourths of the season. However, last season proved what Tony Parker playing that well can get you, namely, a first-round exit.

So the Spurs now are what they are -- an occasionally entertaining team with some firepower, which however lacks either the consistency or more importantly the defense to keep up with the top teams. They look exactly like other examples of once-great teams at the end of their runs, where many of the same players are still there and still seem effective, but they no longer have that little extra something that used to put them over the top.

But go ahead and keep pretending that this is about gelling rather than graying, about needing more time rather than needing to turn back time.

The Spurs are over. Good night.

[LOL@MavsFan]

He's a soft player with no heart. Doesn't help that he canceled his wedding prior to coming to the Spurs. We should have went after a player without any emotional baggage like Carter or S-Jax

S Jax - see club shooting in 2007

Carter - gave up on the Raptors......yeah those guys are what the Spurs need

[LOL@MavsFan]

If this team was getting RUN OFF the court then I'd be worried.

But they aren't.

These last three losses were lost in all different matters BUT, theres one thing that has been good was the 4th quarter defenses have stepped up and made plays.

The Boston game they did, Denver they forced tough bad shots, and tonight they forced tough shots and got key stops and blocks (Jefferson's on Okur).


The team isn't gonna start being cohesive until middle january, but the defense is coming along.

These were the games they should of been losing last year...remember all those last second shots they made to win the games? The law of averages is just catching up with them in close games now. They won so many games last year on last second shots.

[Fabbs]

He's not as fast as he used to be.

He can only be called 'athletic' compared to Finley and Udoka and Mason. He's not anything more than above average in athleticism by NBA SF standards anymore, and a lot of nights he looks just plain average/mediocre athletically.
+1


EricBTPark's point though was all these losses can be justified by this team not being together for "years" (which apparently didn't matter to Boston in 2008)...so I guess it stands to reason that this team won't be able to contend with above mediocre teams until they have a year together under their belt.
His other excuse is if the coach of the Spurs was not 'Popped it would have to be limited to some very small group of of suck ass coachs.



The organization is supposed to do their homework before they acquire somebody..you would think that they would have looked into this..it doesn't appear that they have, since this was the 1st game all season where they actually got him a few plays, and he actually produced..hopefully it continues..
And who in about summer 2007 got appointed to Director of All Things Basketball? (aka Lord Poppycock)

[SCdac]

I'm actually not worried about Jefferson's "heart" or abilitly to "give it all he's got", as much as I'm worried about the little amount of touches on offense he's gotten thus far. It feels like we're not respecting his scoring talent, and we're turning him to a spot up jump shooter ala Michael Finley.

The two biggest positives I saw from last game were, Jefferson getting the opportunity to create in a post up situation early in the last game (that lead to an easy easy slashing bucket for Tim Duncan) and Jefferson coming up with a key block on help defense in the end of last game (I want to say the last or second to last defensive sequence for us - not in front of my DVR). Finley or Mason would not have had the athleticism, or power, to block that shot and secure the rebound. Those two plays alone provided something we haven't gotten alot of from our swingmen in the past 5 years.

Jefferson is getting a bad rap right now, but it's felt more like he's lost and uncertain at times than lacking heart or drive. When he catches the ball, it feels like RJ wants to score two or three baskets at once, he just needs to take in the system, calm down, and I really believe Pop should be giving him the ball at the top of the key or in post up situations routinely at this point - Jefferson is too talented not to give him a large hand in the development of the offense.

[UnWantedTheory]

Not quite ready to call him a failure. Give him some more time.

He'll crow. He'll fight. He'll fly. And then... they will all die!
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::flag::lobt2:

[Spursmania]

The organization is supposed to do their homework before they acquire somebody..you would think that they would have looked into this..it doesn't appear that they have, since this was the 1st game all season where they actually got him a few plays, and he actually produced..hopefully it continues..

Harlemheat, I completely agree with you on that. It's on Pop and the organization. But at the same time, I am rather disappointed in TP's lack of court vision or ability to get RJ more involved as well. It's a learning process, hopefully, the guys and Pop figure it out sooner rather than later.

[SpurCharger]

Jefferson does Not Fit the Spurs system... the Only Way Jefferson improves Is if Pop Changes The offense, and The spurs get Out and run more.... In A Half Court He doesnt Fit what we do...

[duncan228]

First-Quarter Report: Teams’ Identities Have Developed, for Better or Worse

Offseason bust: Richard Jefferson, Spurs. The slow start by San Antonio is not all Richard Jefferson’s fault, of course, but he has not been nearly as useful in the lineup as the Spurs had hoped. He was supposed to provide some insurance in case Manu Ginobili was injured, but he has struggled both when Ginobili was healthy and when he was out. His shooting has been terrible (43.4 percent), especially his 3-point shooting (33.3 percent). Even his free-throw shooting is off—he’s at a career-low 68.3 percent.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141534

[Johnny RIngo]

First-Quarter Report: Teams’ Identities Have Developed, for Better or Worse

Offseason bust: Richard Jefferson, Spurs. The slow start by San Antonio is not all Richard Jefferson’s fault, of course, but he has not been nearly as useful in the lineup as the Spurs had hoped. He was supposed to provide some insurance in case Manu Ginobili was injured, but he has struggled both when Ginobili was healthy and when he was out. His shooting has been terrible (43.4 percent), especially his 3-point shooting (33.3 percent). Even his free-throw shooting is off—he’s at a career-low 68.3 percent.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141534

To quote another part of that article:

Offseason payoff:Vince Carter, Orlando. The Magic are still working Carter into the offense, trying to find the right balance between getting him to be aggressive and dominate, and getting him to be one of the cogs on a very talented team. But so far, things have gone well, as Orlando sits tied for the best record in the East.

And a lot of the 'tards here said Jefferson would be a better fit for our team.

[lennyalderette]

man all this complaining about your own team is just sad

[#2!]

To quote another part of that article:

Offseason payoff:Vince Carter, Orlando. The Magic are still working Carter into the offense, trying to find the right balance between getting him to be aggressive and dominate, and getting him to be one of the cogs on a very talented team. But so far, things have gone well, as Orlando sits tied for the best record in the East.

And a lot of the 'tards here said Jefferson would be a better fit for our team.

The tards are the people like you who won't shut up about Vince Carter. No, he's not a Spur, and yes, Jefferson is. Thats how things are, and they aren't going to change for a while. So please, shut the fuck up.

[Russ]

And a lot of the 'tards here said Jefferson would be a better fit for our team.


Jefferson is a better fit for the Spurs than Carter. Orlando ain't winnin' nothin' with Howard and Carter, book it.

Jefferson wasn't what the Spurs needed this summer, they needed an athletic wing defender and, more importantly, a lock-down defensive big under the hoop

But Jefferson was the best athletic basketball player that the Spurs could get at no cost to their roster.

He was the right, and likely the only realistic, choice.

As far as RJ' s "heart," he is not a leader but he will be a helluva a contributer once the Spurs gel this season. That's all they need from him. That's all the Lakers get from Odom and they seem to be doing fine. Come to think of it, fellow Arizona Wildcat Sean E. wasn't exactly perceived as lionhearted either (and, like RJ, wasn't much of a Pop disciple) but he helped the Spurs quite a bit in '99, didn't he?

[CGD]

Goodness some in here need to think out their reasoning before they post. Tighten it up!