Gallup: Obama approval sinks to 47%, disapproval now at an all time high of 46%

[mogrovejo]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

What are the reasons for this?


Afghan strategy? Climategate? Health-care? Deficit? Failure to comply with the promises about the economy recovery/stimulus package?

[exstatic]

Would that be the 'all time high' of the 10 months he's been in office? :lol

[Nbadan]

Oh, he took a progressive hit for Afghanistan...and to appease who? Republicans who will never like him...

[TheProfessor]

Jobs, jobs, jobs.

[Nbadan]

...me think those numbers were already reflected...

[Jacob1983]

When are people going to stop using time as an excuse for Obama sucking ass? He wanted to be president. He should have known that he wasn't going to be able to magically fix everything right away. Its his fault. He shouldn't have acted like he was going to magically fix everything in America and make it all better when he was running for president. He should have been realistic.
However, people apparently enjoyed hearing all of the unrealistic promises made by Obama.

[Nbadan]

When are people going to stop using time as an excuse for Obama sucking ass? He wanted to be president. He should have known that he wasn't going to be able to magically fix everything right away. Its his fault. He shouldn't have acted like he was going to magically fix everything in America and make it all better when he was running for president. He should have been realistic.
However, people apparently enjoyed hearing all of the unrealistic promises made by Obama.

Is it realistic to think that he is being unrealistic, or realistic to believe that Obama could fix all our problems in 1 year? Who's being unrealistic?

[MannyIsGod]

Its obviously tied to the economoy.

[Nbadan]

maybe, but a lot of people are mad about not getting the hell out of Afghanistan....mostly because they don't GAF about the geopolitics involved...

[SnakeBoy]

Oh, he took a progressive hit for Afghanistan...and to appease who? Republicans who will never like him...

Pretty much sums it up. Nice move by the most intelligent President we've ever had.

[sabar]

The war and the economy, both things that people across the political spectrum take issue with.

[MannyIsGod]

maybe, but a lot of people are mad about not getting the hell out of Afghanistan....mostly because they don't GAF about the geopolitics involved...

Not really. Progressives are mad, but they're not a huge portion of the population. It is obviously the economy. Everything else is secondary to 10% unemployment.

[whottt]

It is the ecomomy. And no matter how charismatic you guys think Obama is, or how you lame you think the Republicans prospects are in 2012, if the economy is still stagnant like it is now, you will be sorely challenged to keep Pat Robertson from winning, much less someone like Sarah Palin. Reagan was an absolute joke in 1976....he wasn't after 4 years of Carter's clueless economic fucking around.


And the poor people are the ones taking it up the ass the worst in this economy, and that novel feeling of thinking they have one of their own in office is going to fade real fast if their economy does not improve. They don't like Obama more than they like their lives.

Credit where it is due:

Obama's been much better and realistic on his foreign policy than he is getting credit for. Plus he's actually got diplomatic skills(although he does come off as preoccupied with himself), the major problem with W's foriegn policy. W was the worst diplomat to ever sit in the oval office. He was absolutely horrible at it, and he was from the day he took office. He was a privileged brat and he had the diplomacy skills of one.

I am satisfied with Obama's foreign policy for now, I have watched this change in his attitude and it was something that started before he was elected President, after he visited Iraq. There is absolutely no doubt he now thinks some of his far left buddies need a reality check. You can tell by the decisions he is making...

However, there is absolutely no way anyone can say Obama has had a tougher task to fixing the economy than Bush did, don't even attempt to make that claim with the way the US changed after Sept 11th, and he hasn't been as good. The Democrats would be all over Bush if the employment numbers dropped at all, and time and time again that admin would get the economy kickstarted, with tax reduction policies, or some kind of stupid spend speech...then the complaint would be that they aren't quality jobs and it shallow superficial improvement.

Low quality jobs are better than no jobs.

The Democrats held Buh up to Clinton and arguably the greatest economic period in American history, for 8 years, and while Bush didn't match up to Clinton's record, he had a tougher road, and he held serve.

And I'm sorry, but you guys weren't saying "it's only been 10 months" about the economy when Bush was President, and there was an economic downturn. The demand was instant results and he was pretty effective at providing them, while the Democrats have produced nothing...and the only reason they haven't produced negative results is because they haven't been able to implement the changes they want. Carter is still looming right around the corner.

[admiralsnackbar]

Oh, he took a progressive hit for Afghanistan...and to appease who? Republicans who will never like him...

I said it in another thread, but I'm almost certain Afghanistan has more to do with securing Pakistani nukes and deterring Iranian ones than anything else.

[Winehole23]

I said it in another thread, but I'm almost certain Afghanistan has more to do with securing Pakistani nukes and deterring Iranian ones than anything else.I guess I can understand why they wouldn't come right out and say this, but in a bare sense, it is plausible.

It doesn't seem to be working vis a vis the Iranians, and repeated US statements about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal to not exactly inspire confidence. It's not intuitively clear to me how our current strategy conduces to solve these problems, or even, whether it does at all.

It seems to me to verge on spiritual hubris to think that what we do right now will decisively solve the nuclear security of Pakistan, the nuclear future of Iran and the democratic futures of Iraq and Aghanistan. The objectives seem unreasonable, even unattainable. By us, anyway.

[Winehole23]

I'm not saying these aren't problems that cry out to be managed. I just happen to doubt that regional security is best served by two wars of occupation and escalating predator strikes on Pakistan.

[admiralsnackbar]

I guess I can understand why they wouldn't come right out and say this, but in a bare sense, it is plausible.

It doesn't seem to be working vis a vis the Iranians, and repeated US statements about the safety of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal to not exactly inspire confidence. It's not intuitively clear to me how our current strategy conduces to solve these problems, or even, whether it does at all.

It seems to me to verge on spiritual hubris to think that what we do right now will decisively solve the nuclear security of Pakistan, the nuclear future of Iran and the democratic futures of Iraq and Aghanistan. The objectives seem unreasonable, even unattainable. By us, anyway.

Pakistan is too modern and volatile a country to endure an American occupation (they already complain about our scouting and bombing drones flying in their airspace), so a staging ground in the vacant lot next door is the next best thing. I don't think the concern is that Paki nukes will fall into the wrong hands through the current administration, but that insurgent forces from the northeast will again surge towards the capital. Were this to happen, it would be a good war for the administration politically.

As to Iran, with Afghanistan, we'd have two staging grounds along two borders of Ahmadenijad's roost. It may be that he remains unbowed and continues uranium enrichment, etc, but I think the state department is tired of his shit and he knows it. I think he is quickly pushing the situation towards a fight-or-acquiesce situation, and given that he knows his country would be obliterated in the sort of formal war our troops have been trained to fight, he should back down. If he doesn't, he provides another popular war for the administration to fight around election time.

No question the line we've been sold about our commitment to Afghan reconstruction (wait... was it ever constructed?) and Iraqi sovereignty seems futile and arrogant, but given that the former country has zero strategic value in and of itself, and the latter country has already been reduced to a turbulent colony, I'm forced to assume we aren't really in either place to fight wars we can't afford for nothing.

[ChumpDumper]

And I'm sorry, but you guys weren't saying "it's only been 10 months" about the economy when Bush was President, and there was an economic downturn. The demand was instant results and he was pretty effective at providing them, while the Democrats have produced nothing...and the only reason they haven't produced negative results is because they haven't been able to implement the changes they want. Carter is still looming right around the corner.:lol

[coyotes_geek]

Jobs, jobs, jobs.

This.

Americans are watching the unemployment rate go up and up and up, and in the mean time Obama and congress are busy talking about healthcare, global warming, the olympics, and a bunch of other stuff not related to jobs.

[spursncowboys]

Jobs, jobs, jobs.

+1. It's the economy stupid.

[George Gervin's Afro]

+1. It's the economy stupid.

It'll get better stupid.

[balli]

If some pollster called me and asked the standard approve/disapprove question I might be inclined to go with Somewhat Disapprove. As I do.

Is there a chance in hell that my 2012 vote would go to Obama's GOP opposition?

Disappointment is not going to mean defection. And if the GOP splits itself into The Insane vs. The Incumbent, then shit, it wouldn't really matter anyways.

[SnakeBoy]

If some pollster called me and asked the standard approve/disapprove question I might be inclined to go with Somewhat Disapprove. As I do.

Is there a chance in hell that my 2012 vote would go to Obama's GOP opposition?

Disappointment is not going to mean defection. And if the GOP splits itself into The Insane vs. The Incumbent, then shit, it wouldn't really matter anyways.

DwBirf4BWew

[mogrovejo]

It's the 10% unemployment or is it the 10% unemployment vis a vis the Administration promises about the evolution of the economy just a few months ago?

[DarkReign]

Jobs, jobs, jobs.


This.

Americans are watching the unemployment rate go up and up and up, and in the mean time Obama and congress are busy talking about healthcare, global warming, the olympics, and a bunch of other stuff not related to jobs.


+1. It's the economy stupid.

Damn, some people get it. Especially C_G. Healthcare, Afghanistan, bank bailouts, global-who-gives-a-flying-fuck-warming...all while 1 in 10 Americans have no job.

Thats why Obama, so far, sucks major balls.

EDITED to include the others.

[DarkReign]

It'll get better stupid.

Ha...you sure about that?

May get better for you and where you live, but the entire MidWest is fucked.

Now, I am sure that doesnt bother you and your ilk, but newsflash, the MidWest is a much larger population than the South/SouthWest.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Ha...you sure about that?

May get better for you and where you live, but the entire MidWest is fucked.

Now, I am sure that doesnt bother you and your ilk, but newsflash, the MidWest is a much larger population than the South/SouthWest.

it'll get better because of it's cyclical nature. I come from the standpoint that the President gets to much credit when it goes well and to much blame when it doesn't. Obama's been on the job 10 months and his policies haven't been in place long enough to make a difference (good or bad) so to place the blame on him soley is intellectually dishonest. Of course many on this board don't care that they are hypocrites so they will proceed with 'it's bad because it's obama' ranting.

[MannyIsGod]

It's the 10% unemployment or is it the 10% unemployment vis a vis the Administration promises about the evolution of the economy just a few months ago?

Provide a link to the promises you're referencing?

[MannyIsGod]

Damn, some people get it. Especially C_G. Healthcare, Afghanistan, bank bailouts, global-who-gives-a-flying-fuck-warming...all while 1 in 10 Americans have no job.

Thats why Obama, so far, sucks major balls.

EDITED to include the others.

What would you have had Obama do differently on the economic front? Would you have ignored the other situations and just focused on the economy full time?

[EmptyMan]

Yes.


But I can't print money. :bang

[DarkReign]

What would you have had Obama do differently on the economic front? Would you have ignored the other situations and just focused on the economy full time?

Thats a fair question and one that I obviously will not answer with any semblance of grace seeing as I am not privy to the daily POTUS briefings that Bush and Obama are/were.

But, on my terms and in my order of business, yes, I would have concentrated my efforts full time on the employment of my countrymen through tax incentives to businesses who hire (not retain) employees. I would pull together the leaders of every major, declining industry in the nation, those industries that are losing jobs to other countries, and put together a plan to keep them level through tax breaks up to even 100%.

Obviously, there is much more to the above than I care to explain seeing as this is a message board and I am not the POTUS.

I would have told Afghanistan and Iraq to go straight fuck themselves, wholesale and had immediate pull back of every troop in either theatre of war, no questions asked save for the few exceptions where some minor presence could help in the training and tactics of the natives.

Healthcare is a complete and utter waste of time and resource of the President in these economic times. For this to be at the forefront of politics speaks to the disconnect between Washington and the rest of the country.

Same with this absolutely fucking ridiculous Climate Change bullshit. Is the Earth heating, cooling, staying same? Are we to blame? The better question right now is, do I give a shit? People are out of work, people are starving, shit costs more now than it ever did, record corporate profits from energy companies, troops dying in foreign lands with an unnamed, unflagged enemy, unemployment is only rising, the dollar is tanking...the list of more immediate concerns is a daunting one on its own without letting some far-fetched, unconfirmed agenda like global climate change taking our leadership's eye of the perverbial ball.

Alternate energy sources should be sold on its merits, not the immediacy of a global climate catastrophe. Movies, media, schools, politicians, people everywhere spewing their impending doom bullshit all over the place as if this...non-issue is even an important one at this time.

To be plain...yes, as the POTUS I would have concentrated my efforts on the economy and unemployment almost solely. Until my people were back to work, making money and paying less for the same shit as 6 years ago, the rest of the world can un-fuck itself on its own, thank you very much.

Better yet, the world can fuck itself. Saves us the cost, really.

[mogrovejo]

Provide a link to the promises you're referencing?

http://wolafen.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/the-job-impact-of-the-american-recovery-and-reinvestment-plan.pdf



http://wolafen.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/unemployment_stimulus.jpg
http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/dramatic_action/


I don’t believe it’s too late to change course, but it will be if we don’t take dramatic action as soon as possible. If nothing is done, this recession could linger for years. The unemployment rate could reach double digits.



That is why I have moved quickly to work with my economic team and leaders of both parties on an American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan that will immediately jumpstart job creation and long-term growth.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, and when you see reports from both public and private economic groups saying that the recession and unemployment would be worse without the stimulus what do you say, mogro?

[mogrovejo]

I say that ex post projections have little or no value, that's why I don't even care to see them. I'd add that the organizations that publish those ex post projections are the biggest beneficiaries of this increase in government spending (that avoided public sector bureaucrats from being fired and helped institutions from the financial sector).

But that's irrelevant, isn't it? Obama either failed in his assessment of the economic situation, in his assessment of the impact of his economic policies or, as I suspect, in both. In any case, he failed. My question is if Obama's failure and not only the economic situation de per si is an explaining factor for the poll results.

[Jacob1983]

I never thought that Obama could fix everything in America in just 1 year. It's not realistic. However, Obama came off in the 2008 presidential election as a quick fixer and/or miracle worker. Many Obama voters and supporters believed that he was going to fix things really fast in America. Sad but true.

[Crookshanks]

Obama seems clueless on the economy. He holds a "jobs summit", but doesn't include the Chamber of Commerce; however Gov. Granholm (Michigan) is there. Tell me - what the hell does she know about creating jobs? Her state is a hellhole and was in a recession long before any other state. And Michigan has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

And now Obama is over in Europe at this phony climate summit and then he goes to accept his (undeserved) Nobel Peace Prize. It's all about him - he's the boy king.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I say that ex post projections have little or no value, that's why I don't even care to see them. I'd add that the organizations that publish those ex post projections are the biggest beneficiaries of this increase in government spending (that avoided public sector bureaucrats from being fired and helped institutions from the financial sector).

But that's irrelevant, isn't it? Obama either failed in his assessment of the economic situation, in his assessment of the impact of his economic policies or, as I suspect, in both. In any case, he failed. My question is if Obama's failure and not only the economic situation de per si is an explaining factor for the poll results.

How long is reasonable amount of time for his policies to work?

[EmptyMan]

The funny thing is even if the economy did come back in a year or two, as soon as it does BamBam is itching at the opportunity to unleash his Progressive Wet Dream thus hammering the economy back down :lol

Have fun at Copenhagen braaaaaaaaah.

[mogrovejo]

How long is reasonable amount of time for his policies to work?

They will never work. If you want to know the amount of time he predicted for his policies to work and the time frame they were designed to impact, please refer to the links in this post (or just read the graph and the quotes):
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3901024&postcount=32

Obama said that if nothing was done the unemployment rate could reach 2 digits. Could.

So, this brilliant genius who believes that he's so smart and prescient that he can take other people's money and then use it in such a shrewd way in order to "fix the economy", "re-build America" and other fantasies, decided to do something... and the unemployment rate quickly climbs to a 2 digit number. I'm not surprised and no sane person should be. If Obama was so skilled in the art of investing as he believes he is, he would be a mega-hyper-billionaire.

[EmptyMan]

Thats a fair question and one that I obviously will not answer with any semblance of grace seeing as I am not privy to the daily POTUS briefings that Bush and Obama are/were.

But, on my terms and in my order of business, yes, I would have concentrated my efforts full time on the employment of my countrymen through tax incentives to businesses who hire (not retain) employees. I would pull together the leaders of every major, declining industry in the nation, those industries that are losing jobs to other countries, and put together a plan to keep them level through tax breaks up to even 100%.

Obviously, there is much more to the above than I care to explain seeing as this is a message board and I am not the POTUS.

I would have told Afghanistan and Iraq to go straight fuck themselves, wholesale and had immediate pull back of every troop in either theatre of war, no questions asked save for the few exceptions where some minor presence could help in the training and tactics of the natives.

Healthcare is a complete and utter waste of time and resource of the President in these economic times. For this to be at the forefront of politics speaks to the disconnect between Washington and the rest of the country.

Same with this absolutely fucking ridiculous Climate Change bullshit. Is the Earth heating, cooling, staying same? Are we to blame? The better question right now is, do I give a shit? People are out of work, people are starving, shit costs more now than it ever did, record corporate profits from energy companies, troops dying in foreign lands with an unnamed, unflagged enemy, unemployment is only rising, the dollar is tanking...the list of more immediate concerns is a daunting one on its own without letting some far-fetched, unconfirmed agenda like global climate change taking our leadership's eye of the perverbial ball.

Alternate energy sources should be sold on its merits, not the immediacy of a global climate catastrophe. Movies, media, schools, politicians, people everywhere spewing their impending doom bullshit all over the place as if this...non-issue is even an important one at this time.

To be plain...yes, as the POTUS I would have concentrated my efforts on the economy and unemployment almost solely. Until my people were back to work, making money and paying less for the same shit as 6 years ago, the rest of the world can un-fuck itself on its own, thank you very much.

Better yet, the world can fuck itself. Saves us the cost, really.

I'd vote for you.

The world fucking itself would put gas @ $50 but beggars can't be choosers.

[Crookshanks]

I'd vote for you.

The world fucking itself would put gas @ $50 but beggars can't be choosers.
Just tell the enviro-wackos to go f _ _ k themselves and let the oil companies drill and build refineries here in the states. There's plenty of oil for our own needs.

[George Gervin's Afro]

They will never work. If you want to know the amount of time he predicted for his policies to work and the time frame they were designed to impact, please refer to the links in this post (or just read the graph and the quotes):
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3901024&postcount=32

Obama said that if nothing was done the unemployment rate could reach 2 digits. Could.

So, this brilliant genius who believes that he's so smart and prescient that he can take other people's money and then use it in such a shrewd way in order to "fix the economy", "re-build America" and other fantasies, decided to do something... and the unemployment rate quickly climbs to a 2 digit number. I'm not surprised and no sane person should be. If Obama was so skilled in the art of investing as he believes he is, he would be a mega-hyper-billionaire.

So if the unemployment rate goes down into the single digits next year would you give his policies credit?

[mogrovejo]

So if the unemployment rate goes down into the single digits next year would you give his policies credit?

Why should I? Accordingly to him, the unemployment rate would have never gone above 9% if he hadn't enacted his policies! Can't you read a graph?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Nice goal post moving going on in here.

[ChumpDumper]

Just tell the enviro-wackos to go f _ _ k themselves and let the oil companies drill and build refineries here in the states. There's plenty of oil for our own needs.
How many completely new refineries were applied to be built in the last twenty years?

[DarkReign]

Just tell the enviro-wackos to go f _ _ k themselves and let the oil companies drill and build refineries here in the states. There's plenty of oil for our own needs.

I dont feel thats the answer to energy problems/prices/shortages either.

Its all well and good that the US has untapped oil sources under its soil/oceans, but really now, its just a stop-gap measure, not a solution.

Alternative energy, IMO, should be sold on its own merits. I personally have investigated into installing a small geo-thermal unit for my property "up north" as a means to be independant from the grid.

I consider this not because the Earth is going to like me more, but that in the long run, the cost of installation and maintenance of a turbine is far lower than getting a bill every month for the rest of your ever-loving life. Especially if you have it installed before the impending energy crisis unfolds (its only a matter of time before natural gas, coal, oil and other fossil fuels become more and more expensive through shortages and the development of larger, up coming nations like China and India. Couple this fact with the ensuing speculative market surrounding commodities and its going to make the Enron-California energy scandal look very small by comparison).

[DarkReign]

I'd vote for you.

The world fucking itself would put gas @ $50 but beggars can't be choosers.

Oh well, oh well.

[spursncowboys]

So if the unemployment rate goes down into the single digits next year would you give his policies credit?

:lol So his policies aren't responsible for unemployment getting to double digits, but if it goes under , then BHO gets the credit?

[spursncowboys]

I dont feel thats the answer to energy problems/prices/shortages either.

Its all well and good that the US has untapped oil sources under its soil/oceans, but really now, its just a stop-gap measure, not a solution.

Alternative energy, IMO, should be sold on its own merits. I personally have investigated into installing a small geo-thermal unit for my property "up north" as a means to be independant from the grid.

I consider this not because the Earth is going to like me more, but that in the long run, the cost of installation and maintenance of a turbine is far lower than getting a bill every month for the rest of your ever-loving life. Especially if you have it installed before the impending energy crisis unfolds (its only a matter of time before natural gas, coal, oil and other fossil fuels become more and more expensive through shortages and the development of larger, up coming nations like China and India. Couple this fact with the ensuing speculative market surrounding commodities and its going to make the Enron-California energy scandal look very small by comparison).
Speaking of untapped oil reserves, how do you feel about the N. Pole reserves? Should we sit around and let Russia and others take all claims or should we be getting our percentage or all of it? If so, with what steps would you be comfortable with? I think we should at the least, get a percent of the area that Alaska covers. Nothing off the table, maintaining these positions.

[MannyIsGod]

I say that ex post projections have little or no value, that's why I don't even care to see them. I'd add that the organizations that publish those ex post projections are the biggest beneficiaries of this increase in government spending (that avoided public sector bureaucrats from being fired and helped institutions from the financial sector).

Um, what? Of course these projections have value. They come from all range of economic firms including the one that provided McCain with his economic consulting. I don't see how they have anything to gain from painting a forecast one way or another but rather in being accurate



But that's irrelevant, isn't it? Obama either failed in his assessment of the economic situation, in his assessment of the impact of his economic policies or, as I suspect, in both. In any case, he failed. My question is if Obama's failure and not only the economic situation de per si is an explaining factor for the poll results.

Of course its not irrelevant. The point the administration was trying to make was not that unemployment was sure to come in at this percentage with or without the package but rather that the package would make the situation better than it would have been otherwise and this has been confirmed.

This is one of your weakest posts of all time and the point to which you'll go to point out how much you dislike Obama is now being revealed to all.

[MannyIsGod]

They will never work. If you want to know the amount of time he predicted for his policies to work and the time frame they were designed to impact, please refer to the links in this post (or just read the graph and the quotes):
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3901024&postcount=32

Obama said that if nothing was done the unemployment rate could reach 2 digits. Could.

So, this brilliant genius who believes that he's so smart and prescient that he can take other people's money and then use it in such a shrewd way in order to "fix the economy", "re-build America" and other fantasies, decided to do something... and the unemployment rate quickly climbs to a 2 digit number. I'm not surprised and no sane person should be. If Obama was so skilled in the art of investing as he believes he is, he would be a mega-hyper-billionaire.

Too bad the majority of economists don't agree with your excellent assessment.

[MiamiHeat]

Why do people keep talking about oil in hidden places?

If we drill and find more oil, and when THAT runs out in another 30 years or so, then what? The problem is here again.

So basically, you guys who say "Drill for oil!" are just dumping the problem onto our children and grandchildren. OIL WILL RUN OUT AGAIN.

How about we fucking solve this energy problem once and for all, and create a Manhattan Style project with hundreds of scientists, GOVERNMENT FUNDED, and create a whole new industry with a new energy source.

It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, a completely new private business sector opportunities for large and small businesses, end our need for oil, end our interest in the middle east, and MOST IMPORTANTLY!!, solve humanity's energy problems

and create positive viewpoint on American technology, just like the space race.

[Yonivore]

Why do people keep talking about oil in hidden places?

If we drill and find more oil, and when THAT runs out in another 30 years or so, then what? The problem is here again.

So basically, you guys who say "Drill for oil!" are just dumping the problem onto our children and grandchildren. OIL WILL RUN OUT AGAIN.

How about we fucking solve this energy problem once and for all, and create a Manhattan Style project with hundreds of scientists, GOVERNMENT FUNDED, and create a whole new industry with a new energy source.

It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs, a completely new private business sector opportunities for large and small businesses, end our need for oil, end our interest in the middle east, and MOST IMPORTANTLY!!, solve humanity's energy problems

and create positive viewpoint on American technology, just like the space race.
We've been there and done that. It was called -- of all things -- the Manhatten Project!

Nuclear Energy would do all the things you suggest.

[jman3000]

Ha...you sure about that?

May get better for you and where you live, but the entire MidWest is fucked.

Now, I am sure that doesnt bother you and your ilk, but newsflash, the MidWest is a much larger population than the South/SouthWest.

What are your parameters for the Midwest? I'm not so sure that's an accurate statement.

[MiamiHeat]

what? I've never heard of a second "Manhatten project" focused on solving the world's energy problem

I can't seem to find it on google.... so where is your info from?

[Yonivore]

what? I've never heard of a second "Manhatten project" focused on solving the world's energy problem

I can't seem to find it on google.... so where is your info from?
Did the original Manhatten Project not harness nuclear energy? Is the technology developed and exploited by the original Manhatten Project a viable energy source today?

[exstatic]

Ha...you sure about that?

May get better for you and where you live, but the entire MidWest is fucked.

Now, I am sure that doesnt bother you and your ilk, but newsflash, the MidWest is a much larger population than the South/SouthWest.

The Midwest? Are you fucking kidding me? The Midwest has been fucked since the SEVENTIES!!!! :lmao It's NEVER coming back.

Reminds me of a Kinnison bit about being bugged about starving Ethiopians. His response was "You live in a fucking desert!!!!! Move to where the food is!!!"

Move to where the jobs are.

[DarkReign]

What are your parameters for the Midwest? I'm not so sure that's an accurate statement.

Unemployment Rate

Ohio: 10%
Michigan: 14.3%
Indiana: 9.4%
Wisconsin: 7.6%
Minnesota: 6.9%

It would seem you are right. Its basically Michigan, Indiana and Ohio dying a slow death.

Yay, for us.


The Midwest? Are you fucking kidding me? The Midwest has been fucked since the SEVENTIES!!!! :lmao It's NEVER coming back.

Reminds me of a Kinnison bit about being bugged about starving Ethiopians. His response was "You live in a fucking desert!!!!! Move to where the food is!!!"

Move to where the jobs are.

Therein lies the problem. Brain drain. Everyone with talent moves away to the coasts. Then laments how where they are sucks for various reasons by comparsion.

Also, I am not talking the Census Bureau MidWest here...to me, Kansas and Nebraska are not the MidWest.

I am talking about Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Minnesota. If you havent been there for any length of time, kindly keep your stereotypes about our job situation to yourself. You'd be hard pressed to find a better place to raise a family and have an affordable living with better schools than the city trash you'll find in every major metropolis (Detroit leading the way in the "trash" department btw).

The MidWest died because this country saw fit to export its ability to manufacture. The geniuses of enterprise see making their steel and widgets in India as a better prospect only because our government doesnt tarrif the living hell out of corporate America like every other nation in the fucking world does to us (Canada and Mexico excluded, thanks NAFTA!).

Why? Because corporate America owns our government. They own our media and when questioned on the subject, your average American will respond with the cliche about free enterprise and open markets, although none of these things exist for American companies anywhere else in the world. They'll say some ignorant shit about protectionism and how it caused the Great Depression (which is complete bullshit).


As Paul Craig Roberts notes: "[Foreign discrimination of US products] is reinforced by the US tax system, which imposes no appreciable tax burden on foreign goods and services sold in the US but imposes a heavy tax burden on US producers of goods and services regardless of whether they are sold within the US or exported to other countries."[

US domestic manufacturers, in part, cannot complete with globalization because globalization only adversely affects domestic manufacturers. Having products made in India/China/wherever creates no tax burden for the corporation that does so (except for profits, of course). Whereas, if youre domestic, youre paying taxes on everything. Property, city, FUTA, state, local, county, federal, social security, medicare, etc. Every time you pay an American employee, the employee and the employer are taxed by all government (local, state and federal).

Not so for companies that outsource. Its a tax-less system for mega-corporations to have windfall profits, monopolizing any industry they so choose due to less-than-fair government who they have firmly in their pocket.

Nowhere else in the world buys as much shit as Americans, because no one else in the world has as much disposable income as Americans (at least, no one used to, idk anymore). We Americans let our corporate task masters dictate everything in the name of their profit...like their profit somehow positively affects you and me, when it doesnt....at all.

How exactly is making microchips in Korea beneficial to Americans? It isnt. Are they cheaper? No, theyre not. How about clothes made in sweatshops in India, China and Malaysia? Are your clothes cheaper for it? No, because the retailer just marks them up to what the market expects. That shirt from (i dont know fashion at all, soooo...) Abercrombie & Fitch cost them about, ohhhhh, $0.50 to make, probably another $1.00 per shirt to ship (im being very generous with that, I ship overseas alllll the time), another $1.00 to get it out of the crate and ship it across country to your local mall (per shirt). The retailer is going to make a HUGE markup and of course, you'd expect them to make profit, so they up it by....ohhhhh, 500%? That shirt should cost you, the consumer, $12.50. How much are you paying per shirt these days for a sweatshop full of broken children to make your goods? $60? Who pockets that and where is this good for our economy?

I make no assumptions about Texas beyond funny jabs like accent, stereotypes and an all encompassing obsession with everything Spanish.

Texas is an outlier to the rest of the country. I am sure some native Texans could explain to me why that is, because I certainly do not know.

So yes, the MidWest may be dead but thats because corporate government decided the needs of the few (rich) far outweigh the needs of the many (the non-rich). So you can do your stupid fuicking happy-dance on our grave, all while laughing and thinking that an area of your country dying is just sooooo fucking hilarious. Thats very elitist, thats very uninformed and very typical of your media-driven brain spewing things you think you know for fact only because those who have reason to influence national perception have far more money these days to do so seeing as globalization is now fact and irreversible due to some misguided notion that our manufacturing portion of the country is somehow less than American and not worthy of the same protections afforded other industries.

[Ignignokt]

Unemployment Rate

Ohio: 10%
Michigan: 14.3%
Indiana: 9.4%
Wisconsin: 7.6%
Minnesota: 6.9%

It would seem you are right. Its basically Michigan, Indiana and Ohio dying a slow death.

Yay, for us.



Therein lies the problem. Brain drain. Everyone with talent moves away to the coasts. Then laments how where they are sucks for various reasons by comparsion.

Also, I am not talking the Census Bureau MidWest here...to me, Kansas and Nebraska are not the MidWest.

I am talking about Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and Minnesota. If you havent been there for any length of time, kindly keep your stereotypes about our job situation to yourself. You'd be hard pressed to find a better place to raise a family and have an affordable living with better schools than the city trash you'll find in every major metropolis (Detroit leading the way in the "trash" department btw).

The MidWest died because this country saw fit to export its ability to manufacture. The geniuses of enterprise see making their steel and widgets in India as a better prospect only because our government doesnt tarrif the living hell out of corporate America like every other nation in the fucking world does to us (Canada and Mexico excluded, thanks NAFTA!).

Why? Because corporate America owns our government. They own our media and when questioned on the subject, your average American will respond with the cliche about free enterprise and open markets, although none of these things exist for American companies anywhere else in the world. They'll say some ignorant shit about protectionism and how it caused the Great Depression (which is complete bullshit).



US domestic manufacturers, in part, cannot complete with globalization because globalization only adversely affects domestic manufacturers. Having products made in India/China/wherever creates no tax burden for the corporation that does so (except for profits, of course). Whereas, if youre domestic, youre paying taxes on everything. Property, city, FUTA, state, local, county, federal, social security, medicare, etc. Every time you pay an American employee, the employee and the employer are taxed by all government (local, state and federal).

Not so for companies that outsource. Its a tax-less system for mega-corporations to have windfall profits, monopolizing any industry they so choose due to less-than-fair government who they have firmly in their pocket.

Nowhere else in the world buys as much shit as Americans, because no one else in the world has as much disposable income as Americans (at least, no one used to, idk anymore). We Americans let our corporate task masters dictate everything in the name of their profit...like their profit somehow positively affects you and me, when it doesnt....at all.

How exactly is making microchips in Korea beneficial to Americans? It isnt. Are they cheaper? No, theyre not. How about clothes made in sweatshops in India, China and Malaysia? Are your clothes cheaper for it? No, because the retailer just marks them up to what the market expects. That shirt from (i dont know fashion at all, soooo...) Abercrombie & Fitch cost them about, ohhhhh, $0.50 to make, probably another $1.00 per shirt to ship (im being very generous with that, I ship overseas alllll the time), another $1.00 to get it out of the crate and ship it across country to your local mall (per shirt). The retailer is going to make a HUGE markup and of course, you'd expect them to make profit, so they up it by....ohhhhh, 500%? That shirt should cost you, the consumer, $12.50. How much are you paying per shirt these days for a sweatshop full of broken children to make your goods? $60? Who pockets that and where is this good for our economy?

I make no assumptions about Texas beyond funny jabs like accent, stereotypes and an all encompassing obsession with everything Spanish.

Texas is an outlier to the rest of the country. I am sure some native Texans could explain to me why that is, because I certainly do not know.

So yes, the MidWest may be dead but thats because corporate government decided the needs of the few (rich) far outweigh the needs of the many (the non-rich). So you can do your stupid fuicking happy-dance on our grave, all while laughing and thinking that an area of your country dying is just sooooo fucking hilarious. Thats very elitist, thats very uninformed and very typical of your media-driven brain spewing things you think you know for fact only because those who have reason to influence national perception have far more money these days to do so seeing as globalization is now fact and irreversible due to some misguided notion that our manufacturing portion of the country is somehow less than American and not worthy of the same protections afforded other industries.


Wow! Ecstatic got curbstomped like a hippy at kent state!