Keith Bogans..

[HarlemHeat37]

4-21 in the last 6 games, 2-14 from 3s..

We knew his offense wasn't going to be good, but not this bad..is this just a slump or should we be worried?..

It seems like his offense is starting to even out after his relatively hot stretch..

[slick'81]

he Sucked in preseason right?!?! sounds like a trend hes never been the most gifted shooting % wise anyway

not that he was expected to be a main contributor but hes been god awful for a minute

[JustinJDW]

I would rather have Roger Mason start. I know his Defense isn't as good, but he is much more active on Offense and ball movement.

[ducks]

4-21 in the last 6 games, 2-14 from 3s..

We knew his offense wasn't going to be good, but not this bad..is this just a slump or should we be worried?..

It seems like his offense is starting to even out after his relatively hot stretch..

he got less then 9 minutes tonight

[ducks]

I would rather have Roger Mason start. I know his Defense isn't as good, but he is much more active on Offense and ball movement.

yeah 101 points is not nearly enough:lol:lol:lol

[objective]

with credit to Denny Green, Bogans is who we thought he was.

He's not a DPoY candidate like Bowen was, and is just as ineffective offensively as Udoka.

Spurs should be starting Hairston and shaking things up but that won't happen.

[DesignatedT]

keith bogans is fucking garbage. should immediately be out of the starting lineup

[TD 21]

4-21 in the last 6 games, 2-14 from 3s..

We knew his offense wasn't going to be good..is this just a slump or should we be worried?..

It seems like his offense is starting to even out after his relatively hot stretch..

Worried about what? Bogans is what he is; meaning he's an extremely limited player that would be buried at the end of the bench on any real contender; or any credible team for that matter.

Time to bury his ass on the bench. He's a complete offensive liability and when you couple that with Jefferson, who's shooting it like he did in his younger days, the starting lineup has no outside shooting presence. Defensively, this team isn't very good any way, so insert Mason, or Ginobili and just hope that with improved floor spacing that this team can start outscoring some teams.

[Chomag]

He is really struggling now. I think it might be time to give his minutes to Hairston and see how that pans out. If not can allways check back with Bogans again later.

[elbamba]

I am more concerned that his defense has been mediocre at best. I would rather see Harriston and begin working for the future. He could help us more by seasons end than Bogans.

[slick'81]

with credit to Denny Green, Bogans is who we thought he was.

He's not a DPoY candidate like Bowen was, and is just as ineffective offensively as Udoka.

Spurs should be starting Hairston and shaking things up but that won't happen.


agreed honestly even i dont think Hairston can be worse than bogans right now :lol

[TimDunkem]

Hairston outplayed both RMJ and Keith during the pre-season, yet rides the bench. I don't really understand it...Not that he'll make us elite or anything, but it couldn't hurt if he gets some burn?

[loveforthegame]

The thing that worries me about Bogans is that his defense has been mediocre of late. If you're expecting his offense to pick up then you're in for a long wait. It's not going to happen. He doesn't even have a go to shot he can rely on.

[objective]

Hairston outplayed both RMJ and Keith during the pre-season, but rides the bench. I don't really understand it...

Because Pop won't swallow his pride, that's my guess.

Bogans is the scrappy well travelled old vet that Pop likes. If Hairston was born in 1978 he'd be getting time right now.

At least Hairston could put some pressure on other teams' transition defenses by getting up and down. Not that there wouldn't be turnovers from Parker failing to deliver the ball accurately, but hey, it's a nice dream to have.

[Yogurt210]

i would love for hairston to take bogan's spot.

[loveforthegame]

Hairston got 44 seconds tonight with Mason, Ginobli, Bogans, and Hill all struggling.

As much as we liked to see Hairston get some minutes it's not going to happen. He'll be back in Austin when Finley is cleared to play.

[androck]

Bogans is shooting .257 from 3PT with a career average of .348. It will get back up. I'm not a big Hairston fan but then I wasn't big on Pops or Mahinmi either. The Spurs don't play in a system that rewards athleticism; players need to know their roles and execute (see Oberto vs. Elson).

[HarlemHeat37]

The thing that worries me about Bogans is that his defense has been mediocre of late. If you're expecting his offense to pick up then you're in for a long wait. It's not going to happen. He doesn't even have a go to shot he can rely on.

+1..

he looked slow against Ray Allen, which is kind of concerning..

[spurtech09]

yeah hairston over bogan....thought bogan was a decent player to take over bowens spot but nope I was wrong....start hairston...

[Kori Ellis]

Like I have been saying all along (even when he was playing well), I don't think he's starter quality. I still advocate a Parker/Hill starting backcourt.

[androck]

I should also add that Bogans is second on the team in adjusted plus/minus (after Bonner) with a +6.09. That's almost entirely on the defensive end where he has a -5.40 rating (negative is good). Of course, he hasn't even played 300 minutes this year so he really does not have a huge impact one way or the other.

[loveforthegame]

Like I have been saying all along (even when he was playing well), I don't think he's starter quality. I still advocate a Parker/Hill starting backcourt.

I wouldn't mind seeing that. I'd even be happy to see Mason get the start to see if he can turn it around. And I've been on Mason as much as anyone here.

[JustinJDW]

yeah 101 points is not nearly enough:lol:lol:lolIt's not just that Roger is a better scorer than Bogans, he is just more active offensively. His passing has gotten better, and his Defense has been improving too. I would much rather have Roger starting and making shit happen than having Bogans just sit there in the corner and do nothing.

[ElNono]

Dwill crossed over Hill twice today, completely losing him in the process. One of those was on the clutch shot he made at the end. George simply can't guard the top guys in the league. He's not strong enough.

[z0sa]

Dwill crossed over Hill twice today, completely losing him in the process. One of those was on the clutch shot he made at the end. George simply can't guard the top guys in the league. He's not strong enough.

Hill played the screen and RJ helped perfectly. He hit an amazing shot, and sometimes that's how it works.

[androck]

It's not just that Roger is a better scorer than Bogans, he is just more active offensively. His passing has gotten better, and his Defense has been improving too. I would much rather have Roger starting and making shit happen than having Bogans just sit there in the corner and do nothing.

I'm all for "making shit happen" but what exactly has Roger done this year? He's averaging a career low in 3PT % and he doesn't rebound. He's still not much of a defender. His assist rate is up slightly but so is his turnover rate.

[HarlemHeat37]

Dwill crossed over Hill twice today, completely losing him in the process. One of those was on the clutch shot he made at the end. George simply can't guard the top guys in the league. He's not strong enough.

+1..

I forgot who I was arguing with the other day, but he was criticizing me for saying Hill isn't strong enough to guard bigger guys on the wing..

I love Hill, but he isn't strong enough to guard the bigger perimeter players in the NBA, and there are a lot of those guys..if you put him against a guy like Ray Allen, I don't mind it at all..but when you have guys like Deron, Joe Johnson, Vince Carter and a lot of others, it's going to be tough when they have a huge size advantage over you..

[EmptyMan]

What does strength have to do with not being able to stay in front of your man.

Hill got lost on Williams change of direction and didn't recover quick enough...

[ElNono]

Hill played the screen and RJ helped perfectly. He hit an amazing shot, and sometimes that's how it works.

Well, we need to start to figure out how it will work defensively for us, because we're not getting any of these games back. We used to be a team that knew how to make stops whe it mattered, and nowadays we're on the receiving end of that.

[Punkkboy44]

Spurs are his 5th team in 7 years..that says it all..HE SUCKS...and POP continues to START HIM. No wonder the Spurs cant win..among the other 100 reasons...Jefferson..biggest free agent flop ever...watever...Spurs still won 4 titles..years ago...

[HarlemHeat37]

What does strength have to do with not being able to stay in front of your man.

Hill got lost on Williams change of direction and didn't recover quick enough...

I wasn't talking about that play, I was speaking in general..

I wouldn't mind seeing Hill get to start, I just don't think it'll work, and I think it will limit him as a player by constantly taking the abuse of guarding much bigger players all the time..

When he's aggressive, he's a useful asset to have on both ends off the bench, so I don't want to mess with that..

[pjjrfan]

The starting unit no longer has a outside threat, although, in this game, Jefferson's post up game did create some things for Tim and Tony but the long ball came into play when the second unit came in and the offense really took off. Bogans really shouldn't be out there if he isn't going to be an outside threat. I would prefer Mason, or give Hairston a shot, I like the idea of Hill starting alongside Tony but he is playing so well with the second unit, the most consistent part of this team, that I would rather they not mess with it.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't want Hairston to start, he doesn't help with the outside shooting either..I want him coming off the bench with Hill and Blair..

We don't have a solution right now..we need a guy that can defend and make the 3 like Bruce used to do..a trade is pretty much the only possibility for this to happen..

[The Truth #6]

I think starting Hill creates more problems. Mason starting could stretch the floor better for Tony. Hairston could replace mason on the second unit. That would put more pressure on Manu to be a distributor, but that's probably where his game should go for the moment.

[HarlemHeat37]

We're just in a tough situation right now..

Parker is a huge defensive liability, so the SG pretty much has to be a good defender..

[ElNono]

Parker is a huge defensive liability, so the SG pretty much has to be a good defender..

This... which also means we can't afford Bogans not to play well...

[z0sa]

This... which also means we can't afford Bogans not to play well...

What is "well"? Hitting shots and playing good D? Just playing Good D? Getting to the rim on occasion?

I still have trouble seeing how 86 yr old Bowen couldn't do the same shit Bogans does for one more season.

[HarlemHeat37]

It is true that last year's Bowen was much better than Bogans has been so far, on both sides..it's kind of alarming..that's done with now though..

[exstatic]

Bogans shut Deron Williams down HARD in the first half.

[EricB]

Bogans shut Deron Williams down HARD in the first half.

but but but he's not averaging 20 a game!!

[ceperez]

Bogans shut Deron Williams down HARD in the first half.

Stop deluding yourself and this board.

Bogans does have enough talent to belong in the court.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bogans only played 4 minutes in the 1st half..he played only 1 minute in the 1st..he didn't shut him down at all..

He missed 2 out of 3 shots and had 2 turnovers in just 8 minutes..when his offense is that bad, which has been the case for 6 games now, then he has to be playing GREAT defense and making an impact for him to deserve the starting spot..he hasn't been doing that..

[z0sa]

Face it, guys - because of Pop's style of coaching, Bogans will have to provide offense to earn minutes. Unless Bogans can take and make shots, potentially big shots, he isn't going to fit our stopper role at all. Bowen's 3pt shooting was a vastly underrated ability.

[ElNono]

What is "well"? Hitting shots and playing good D? Just playing Good D? Getting to the rim on occasion?

I still have trouble seeing how 86 yr old Bowen couldn't do the same shit Bogans does for one more season.

Just playing good D. If he's not playing good D then we need to go somewhere else. But don't pretend that the guy has never played good D for us this season.

I'm not comparing him with Bruce, but Bruce also didn't have outstanding games all the time. I seem to recall plenty of threads in these very forums asking to sink Bowen deep in the bench...

[ceperez]

Spurs F.O. should man up to their mistake.... resign Bowen.

[Kori Ellis]

Bogans shut Deron Williams down HARD in the first half.

Unless I missed something, he only played about 4 1/2 minutes in the first half, including getting pulled about a minute and a half into the game.

[z0sa]

Just playing good D. If he's not playing good D then we need to go somewhere else. But don't pretend that the guy has never played good D for us this season.

I didn't say he hasn't played good D. I agree he has played lockdown D during stretches, but I also think Bowen could have done the same things, and potentially better. On offense, I bet Bowen could still hit some corner 3's if we brought him out of bed right now.


I'm not comparing him with Bruce, but Bruce also didn't have outstanding games all the time. I seem to recall plenty of threads in these very forums asking to sink Bowen deep in the bench...

I'm not asking for Bowen to be the Bowen of old. I'm asking if he can play 2 fewer less minutes on average than last season and do Bogans' job + hit some shots. I know that's "over now." Sadly.

[ElNono]

I didn't say he hasn't played good D. I agree he has played lockdown D during stretches, but I also think Bowen could have done the same things, and potentially better. On offense, I bet Bowen could still hit some corner 3's if we brought him out of bed right now.

I'm not asking for Bowen to be the Bowen of old. I'm asking if he can play 2 fewer less minutes on average than last season and do Bogans' job + hit some shots. I know that's "over now." Sadly.

Exactly. We need to move on. Bogans will play sporadically if he's helping the team more than hurting the team. Same thing SHOULD happen with everybody else. DRob is gone. Bowen is gone. We need to move on with what we have.

[Chomag]

Bogans shut Deron Williams down HARD in the first half.

From what I saw Williams wasnt in attack mode at that time yet. He was doing the PG thing and getting everyone else touches first.

Not taking it away from Bogans game but to use this for his case I don't believe is accurate.

[Spurs Brazil]

Like I have been saying all along (even when he was playing well), I don't think he's starter quality. I still advocate a Parker/Hill starting backcourt.

I like this option and I also would like to have a real PG off the bench. I don't know who though

Start Bogans of Mason for me is the same, both are playing terrible

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Interesting that Bowen was put out to pasture when I think he's a step up from what we're getting from Bogans on both ends of the floor.

[draft87]

but but but he's not averaging 20 a game!!


hahahahaha

[draft87]

keith bogans is fucking garbage. should immediately be out of the starting lineup


who should start instead? and how will improve the rotations and performances?

[DesignatedT]

Interesting that Bowen was put out to pasture when I think he's a step up from what we're getting from Bogans on both ends of the floor.

agreed. its not too late to bring bruce back as well... although he definitely wouldnt be some savior but i wouldnt mind seeing him out their or atleast helping in practice.

[DesignatedT]

who should start instead? and how will improve the rotations and performances?


First, i would start someone who is actually going to be APART of the rotation..... name ANY OTHER STARTER IN THE LEAGUE who ends up playing 8 minutes in a game? LMAO. If your going to start a guy like bogans then commit to him playing atleast 20-25 minutes. NOT 8.

Talk about hurting the rotation and performances...... bogans starting then ends up playing 8 total minutes. seriously, what the fuck kind of rotation, lineup, coaching is behind that reasoning.... fucking terrible

[Blackjack]

Would I rather have Bowen playing the type of minutes Bogans had seen thus far?

Yes.

Would Bowen have come back to the Spurs playing the type of minutes Bogans has seen and the role he had in his final year?

No.

If Bowen was willing to play the diminished role he was forced to play last year, the Spurs would've brought him back. They weren't willing to depend on him as they had done in the past, but they would've been fine bringing him back if he could accept the diminished role.

Bruce couldn't and wouldn't accept being a limited minute, end-of-bench, situational player; he's a proud man that didn't want to fade into obscurity.

Bogans' inability to gain the respect of the defense combined with Parker's lack of a jumper, at least one we've yet to see this year, is a big reason for the uptick in turnovers; the defenders are sagging off of Parker and Bogans when they play together and congesting the paint. As seen against Boston, post-play's susceptible to turnovers when putting the ball on the floor from the weakside help defenders.

Raja was the closest thing to a natural fit coming into the season for the role, and the Spurs' interest is no surprise. I'm not a huge fan of the player he is defensively at this stage, but his shot and the respect he's gained over the years from the officials leaves him the most logical option; three months from now, that is..

[CGD]

It's a sliding scale folks. Bogan's starting turns on RJ's improvement on D. Unless George grows 3", he's the best we've got right now to throw at SG/SF taller than 6'6"

Bogans starting <---------------------> Bogans to the bench
RJ subpar D <---------------------> RJ consistency on D

[TJastal]

I'm not surprised really. All the indications pointed to this happening. Bogans' miserable shooting in the pre-season, his journeyman career that has at least a dozen team changes, his overrated defense.

And to think, Pop tossed away a great young prospect (Hairston) that by all indications was ready to produce nicely in the NBA so this guy could land a job.

[TJastal]

4-21 in the last 6 games, 2-14 from 3s..

We knew his offense wasn't going to be good, but not this bad..is this just a slump or should we be worried?..

It seems like his offense is starting to even out after his relatively hot stretch..

Actually he's replicating his pre-season shooting numbers almost perfectly. Amazing, huh?

[TJastal]

Bogans shut Deron Williams down HARD in the first half.

For the whole 4.5 minutes Bogans played he did a good defensive job on Williams, but that is an exaggeration.

[lennyalderette]

pop is not going to change his line up drastically, so dont expect much changing, and i'd rather have bogans defense than poor defense and below average offense anyway. they all just have to start playing better, it sounds stupid, because it is stupid. they should do whatever it takes to make them play at the top of their game.

[CGD]

I think the rationale for starting Bogan's is two-fold:

(1) the aforementioned defensive pesensce guarding SG/SF taller than 6'6"

(2) It allows the Spurs to exploit their current competititve advantage: our deep bench. Bogans helps our first unit "weather storm," as it were, by playing the other team's 1st unit to a draw (in theory anyway). At least until the first unit "gets it," we'll need to seperate ourselves with our fire power off the bench.

[TJastal]

I think the rationale for starting Bogan's is two-fold:

(1) the aforementioned defensive pesensce guarding SG/SF taller than 6'6"

(2) It allows the Spurs to exploit their current competititve advantage: our deep bench. Bogans helps our first unit "weather storm," as it were, by playing the other team's 1st unit to a draw (in theory anyway). At least until the first unit "gets it," we'll need to seperate ourselves with our fire power off the bench.

lol weather the storm.. he is a good chunk of that storm. A much better choice to weather the storm would be to start somebody else