Manu. Frickin. Ginobili.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

.... simply decided he was going to win the game after Popovich inserted him in the lineup in the 4th quarter.

He is, truly, a stud.

[murpjf88]

yeah, he had a good game.

[ffadicted]

Vintage Manu!

[ducks]

Let's not suck each other's dicks yet - Manu has a loooong way to go. Nice to see flashes of the guy we know and love though. :tu

And Jefferson loves playing the Kings, but he's gotta learn to play like that night in night out.

[Spursfan092120]

Didn't get quite as high on that dunk as he used to, but yeah..he definitely took over. First thing I thought was "that's the Manu I know and love."

[ulosturedge]

He still needs to get his hops back and that spring in his step, but all in all its always good to see Manu in his groove. Hopefully things only get better for him as we get deeper into the season. :toast

[blkroadrunners]

He played well against a mediocre-at-best team. Glad Pop played him more in the 4th though.

[SCdac]

The kind of talent and drive he has, you don't ever lose that in my opinion. the guy had an impressive string of 30 point and high 20 point games off the bench just, what, 10 months ago? it's not that long ago. Hell, he'd probably have more big games already this season, if we weren't so deep, and not trying to over-play Manu (which I don't mind).

[Fpoonsie]

The kind of talent and drive he has, you don't ever lose that in my opinion. the guy had an impressive string of 30 point and high 20 point games off the bench just, what, 10 months ago? it's not that long ago. Hell, he'd probably have more big games already this season, if we weren't so deep, and not trying to over-play Manu (which I don't mind).

+1

You can still see that fire in his eyes, especially on those late drives to the bucket. He's still passionate. He may never regain the step he might've lost or the hops he once had, but that drive'll never die.

[vander]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

[xellos88330]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

Who cares who the opponent is. Most of Spurs fandom is eager to see Manu be Manu. Appreciate it... don't degrade it. Buzzkill... :nope

[Chomag]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

Thats how bad we needed to win. Thank God for scrub teams!

[ffadicted]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

Get the fuck outta here lol :hat

[z0sa]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

It was actually pretty ugly, I agree. It was also a double digit win. Parker finally displayed some above average chemistry with RJ and the rest of the team. There's still a lot of work to do, but I didn't see where you specified what exactly you expected tonight.

[xellos88330]

It was actually pretty ugly, I agree. It was also a double digit win. Parker finally displayed some above average chemistry with RJ and the rest of the team. There's still a lot of work to do, but I didn't see where you specified what exactly you expected tonight.

:lmao

[murpjf88]

the only thing I take out of this was the spurs win.

[OldSilentHill]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

Kings are still a middle table team in the best basketball league in the world, with pros playing with millions in budgets.

And Manu closed the game when no one could do it, with 11 pts in the last quarter, including some very smart plays.

% 100 in FT (8-8) and 3 pts (2-2) :wakeup

Ok, maybe "Frickin" is not the word. It just seems that people is really happy for this and this is a way they have to express it.

[Manu-of-steel]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

Then go watch the other teams if that would please you! Spurs fan here are just happy to get a win.

[mytespurs]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

It's a win...just enjoy it for a change.

[z0sa]

Manu still has it. He just needs more time (healthy) and he'll be back at the top of his game. That will be interesting to see.

[TMTTRIO]

Well I'll take it. It's better than him all done, finished up, not having a game anymore, and not being Manu anymore :).

[HarlemHeat37]

Manu had a 36-point monster game vs. Toronto and then had a horrible stretch until tonight..the key isn't whether or not he can do it once in while, it's whether he can still do it on a consistent basis..

[blkroadrunners]

Manu had a 36-point monster game vs. Toronto and then had a horrible stretch until tonight..the key isn't whether or not he can do it once in while, it's whether he can still do it on a consistent basis..


It seems that whenever he finds his touch and starts playing like his regular self, at least for the past couple years, he re-injuries himself and has to get back on track again. I just hope he can stay on the court as well.

[itzsoweezee]

he just needs to take it easy, and then go into that extra gear come playoff time.

i don't understand the manu bashing. the guy goes 110% every time he steps on the court. you know the spurs aren't winning a championship if manu isn't healthy, right? so why bash the guy? maybe think about rooting for another team.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Manu had a 36-point monster game vs. Toronto and then had a horrible stretch until tonight..the key isn't whether or not he can do it once in while, it's whether he can still do it on a consistent basis..

[Baseline]

Here's the deal. We have to get to the plaoffs first, which seems to be more of an issue this year than any of us thought it would be.

But in the playoffs, we need 4 wins against our opponents. I'd like to think that if Manu is healthy, he may have 3 or 4 good games out of 7. So if we can get through to the WCF against LA (assuming we play those homos in the WCF), I'd like to think Manu can come up with a couple of great games. When Manu plays great, we always win. If Manu plays well, we win most of the time. When Manu plays badly, it's hard for us to win against good teams.

What I like about this Spurs team is that we have four guys who are capable of scoring 30 points on any given night. That gives defenses a ton to think about. But if we can get our D somewhere near on track and get 80 points a night from the Big Four in playoff games, we'll be hard to beat.

[ElNono]

Manu had a 36-point monster game vs. Toronto and then had a horrible stretch until tonight..the key isn't whether or not he can do it once in while, it's whether he can still do it on a consistent basis..

Don't forget he missed 6 games... This is like what, his 4th game back?
He needs to get in rhythm and he'll be ok. What we need now is to shore up the defense and keep everyone healthy.

[ElNono]

wow, you people found that impressive? you need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need I remind you who our opponent was?


geez
:rolleyes

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/8/26/633553695829349661-mad.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

Will Manu be able to play in the playoffs though?..obviously a concern..

[HarlemHeat37]

Don't forget he missed 6 games... This is like what, his 4th game back?
He needs to get in rhythm and he'll be ok. What we need now is to shore up the defense and keep everyone healthy.

Obviously that's a concern though..I don't doubt that Manu will be able to play at a high level if he stays healthy and plays enough to get back into a rhythm..obviously the "staying healthy" part is the issue though..

[ElNono]

Will Manu be able to play in the playoffs though?..obviously a concern..

Well, what do you want to do? Trade him now?... ok.. what can you get in return that will put you over the top?

[ElNono]

Obviously that's a concern though..I don't doubt that Manu will be able to play at a high level if he stays healthy and plays enough to get back into a rhythm..obviously the "staying healthy" part is the issue though..

Why is that?
To be honest, I'm more concerned with Duncan knees, since it's a known chronic problem and we've been playing him a lot more than I thought we would early in the season...

[HarlemHeat37]

Well, what do you want to do? Trade him now?... ok.. what can you get in return that will put you over the top?

I'm not saying that..

There are people that are questioning everybody that is "hating" on Manu..I was replying to the poster that said "all we need from Manu is a few good games a series"..

All I'm saying is that 1 game is nice, but we need him to do it consistently, and there's always a significant chance that he's going to get hurt again..

[HarlemHeat37]

Why is that?
To be honest, I'm more concerned with Duncan knees, since it's a known chronic problem and we've been playing him a lot more than I thought we would early in the season...

I'm concerned with that too..

Manu's more concerning to me because he has to play a certain style to be himself..he plays an intense way of basketball where he goes 110% all the time..when you mix that with his injury prone history for the last 3 years, then you have concerns about him..

[ElNono]

All I'm saying is that 1 game is nice, but we need him to do it consistently, and there's always a significant chance that he's going to get hurt again..

This is the part the I don't get from people like you that I know are not haters... The dude had a bad stretch of injuries... all of them different from each other...

People talk about his durability, but the reality is that he's been pretty healthy until last season...

[z0sa]

All I'm saying is that 1 game is nice, but we need him to do it consistently, and there's always a significant chance that he's going to get hurt again..

We still don't know that. According to Manu and the Spurs, he was 100% at the start of the season. He didn't play ball for months during the offseason so a couple minor injuries during his on-the-court recovery are almost expected.

[ElNono]

I'm concerned with that too..

Manu's more concerning to me because he has to play a certain style to be himself..he plays an intense way of basketball where he goes 110% all the time..when you mix that with his injury prone history for the last 3 years, then you have concerns about him..

3 years???? What are you talking about?

[ElNono]

You know, I'm not against trading him if you can find a deal out there that would land you a Gasol-to-the-Lakers lopsided trade. I just don't know what's out there like that.

[Manu-of-steel]

3 years???? What are you talking about?

He obviously does know what he's talking about.

[HarlemHeat37]

3 years???? What are you talking about?

2 years, typo..counting the playoffs..

Obviously we're looking at his body now..what happened before isn't really relevant IMO..he got hurt in those playoffs and he's still getting hurt up until a few weeks ago..

The fact that the injuries have been different doesn't really change anything..I'm obviously not the only one concerned with the injuries, obviously Pop is too when you look at the last interview where he was asked about them..it's only natural..

The guy isn't getting any younger and he's coming off multiple injuries since the first concerning one in the 2007-2008 playoffs..obviously Manu has been more injury prone than not since then..

[ElNono]

He obviously does know what he's talking about.

Really? I was under the impression he got his first injury in the 2008 first round of the playoffs against Phoenix...
That's April 2008... 1.5 years ago... Not to mention he played half a season last year...

Please, do correct me if I'm wrong...

[ElNono]

The guy isn't getting any younger and he's coming off multiple injuries since the first concerning one in the 2007-2008 playoffs..obviously Manu has been more injury prone than not since then..

I tell you what, you'll believe whatever you want because you have your mind set already. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. :toast

[z0sa]

I tell you what, you'll believe whatever you want because you have your mind set already. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

Is there time? Time is not on our side. The trade deadline moves closer every passing second and Manu's worth won't ever again be nearly as high as it is in the coming weeks, provided he stays healthy.

[ElNono]

Is there time? Time is not on our side. The trade deadline moves closer every passing second and Manu's worth won't ever again be nearly as high as it is in the coming weeks, provided he stays healthy.

True. I still haven't heard who we getting from him that will put us over the top...

[HarlemHeat37]

I tell you what, you'll believe whatever you want because you have your mind set already. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. :toast

Are you actually saying that Manu has been more durable as opposed to more injury prone since the injury in the 2007-8 playoffs?..

If it's a case of who is "right or wrong", I obviously want to be "wrong" here..I obviously don't want Manu to get hurt, he's obviously a huge key to our title hopes, and I've obviously grown to love the guy as a fan since he joined the team a LONG time ago..

[z0sa]

I still haven't heard who we getting from him that will put us over the top...

Therein lies the dilemma. Even if Manu does return to full health, how good is that nowadays? How abrupt will the drop off be by Tim's last season? Abrupt enough that no matter who we place around Tim at that point, our title aspirations are hopelessly thin? Some Gasol-like trade isn't the only way Manu could, or should, make his way out of town. A Manu trade for players with both talent and untapped potential makes a lot of sense, because we have already dedicated to at least 2011. Think big picture here. What we do with Manu has huge effects on the remaining years of the Duncan era.

No, I didn't name any names. But I also think you're off-base with what constitutes a good return for Manu.

[ElNono]

Are you actually saying that Manu has been more durable as opposed to more injury prone since the injury in the 2007-8 playoffs?..

No. But 'injury prone' means, well, prone to injuries. I don't think he's any more or less prone to get injured. He went on a bad stretch of injuries (two really, they just had a very long recovery time). I simply don't think it's necessarily a byproduct of his entire body decaying... but, like I said, time will tell.


If it's a case of who is "right or wrong", I obviously want to be "wrong" here..I obviously don't want Manu to get hurt, he's obviously a huge key to our title hopes, and I've obviously grown to love the guy as a fan since he joined the team a LONG time ago..

I know... and I'm also serious when I say that if he can be a good trading chip to get somebody to put us over the top, then by all means we should pull the trigger.

[ElNono]

And BTW, don't expect another 20 points and 3 dunks the next game...
I mean, I wouldn't complain if he pulls it out, but I suspect it's still going to take some games for Manu to get to the point where he feels comfortable getting to the rim and getting some lift back... It's a process.

[itzsoweezee]

No, I didn't name any names. But I also think you're off-base with what constitutes a good return for Manu.

a good return is a player that makes the spurs championship favorites.

not going to happen.

i'd rather take my chances with manu.

[ElNono]

Therein lies the dilemma. Even if Manu does return to full health, how good is that nowadays? How abrupt will the drop off be by Tim's last season? Abrupt enough that no matter who we place around Tim at that point, our title aspirations are hopelessly thin? Some Gasol-like trade isn't the only way Manu could, or should, make his way out of town. A Manu trade for players with both talent and untapped potential makes a lot of sense, because we have already dedicated to at least 2011. Think big picture here. What we do with Manu has huge effects on the remaining years of the Duncan era.

No, I didn't name any names. But I also think you're off-base with what constitutes a good return for Manu.

Well, I start from the premise that we're not rebuilding here. The big picture right now is trying to contend for championships until TD retires. Couple that with Pop not really being into young kids, and I'm not really sure what you mean. I think Pop's concern with Manu is entirely with health and wether he's going to be able to be out there. I think Pop would keep him on a reduced role, a la Finley, if they could arrange for a reasonable extension.

[z0sa]

i'd rather take my chances with manu.

It's an agonizingly hard decision - of paths, so to speak - for me. The right trade might not appear collusion-esque on the outside (like the Gasol trade) but still net us some younger, high impact player(s). Additionally, without Manu you could almost guarantee RJ scoring 20 a game. It's just who do we get? It's still early. I probably agree with you in the end, and would stick with Manu myself, but that doesn't mean it isn't a tough decision to make IF the right trade comes along.

If Manu can stay healthy and prove he hasn't lost much, we're contenders this year. I'm just unsure he isn't regressing into role player status, especially by next year's playoffs.

[z0sa]

Well, I start from the premise that we're not rebuilding here. The big picture right now is trying to contend for championships until TD retires. Couple that with Pop not really being into young kids, and I'm not really sure what you mean. I think Pop's concern with Manu is entirely with health and wether he's going to be able to be out there. I think Pop would keep him on a reduced role, a la Finley, if they could arrange for a reasonable extension.

I'm assuming Pop would only authorize a Manu trade that netted us solid defensive player(s) back (presumably a big), so we could return (further) to Spurs style D. In the case that we did, I'm not sure how youth would be an issue. A barely turned 20 year old 37th pick in the 2009 draft is earning PT. Of course, I'm not sure if any such trade will be there. And, it'd be nice if we could pull a Gasol-like trade on someone who desperately wants caproom, however unlikely that is. It's too early and who knows what teams will be looking to do in 6 weeks - and that includes the Spurs. It will be very interesting seeing if Manu can stay healthy for a long stretch of time, and produce vintage performances as well.

[ElNono]

I'm assuming Pop would only authorize a Manu trade that netted us solid defensive player(s) back (presumably a big), so we could return (further) to Spurs style D. In the case that we did, I'm not sure how youth would be an issue. A barely turned 20 year old 37th pick in the 2009 draft is earning PT. Of course, I'm not sure if any such trade will be there. And, it'd be nice if we could pull a Gasol-like trade on someone who desperately wants caproom, however unlikely that is. It's too early and who knows what teams will be looking to do in 6 weeks - and that includes the Spurs. It will be very interesting seeing if Manu can stay healthy for a long stretch of time, and produce vintage performances as well.

I don't think Blair is really going to have much of a role on the second half of the season unless he manages to consistently grab 10+ boards and play relatively good defense in limited time to force Pop's hand. I think Dejuan is really having time to show what he can bring, but mostly, it's playing on time that will be handed to Ratliff. I think the GHill experience last season says a lot about what we should expect.

[Mr.Robinson]

wow, you people found that impressive? You need to watch some other teams once in a while, oh and need i remind you who our opponent was?


Geez
:rolleyes

gtfoh!

[z0sa]

I don't think Blair is really going to have much of a role on the second half of the season unless he manages to consistently grab 10+ boards and play relatively good defense in limited time to force Pop's hand.

He's an energy player with a skillset we could use if he can bring it consistently. Those types are good to have around, especially on a playoff team, because they fire up both their teammates and the crowd. Inexperienced as he may be, he's showing progression on both ends. Remember the Boston game?

First of all, he didn't look or act scared at all, even in the guts of the game (it's been a recurring theme anytime he plays - he's respectful but clearly a force to be reckoned with). Big plus. It's nice knowing the rookie won't be easily intimidated.

Second, he was a big part of that +23 rebounding margin, and played just about as spectacular as you could have wanted on both ends, including guarding multiple bigger, more talented (supposedly) Celtics with success and scoring against those same guys.

He's had some nice blocks and other defensive plays this season. And wouldn't you describe his time now as "limited"? He only averages 15MPG, yet posts some of the League's best rebounding stats per minute.


I think Dejuan is really having time to show what he can bring, but mostly, it's playing on time that will be handed to Ratliff. I think the GHill experience last season says a lot about what we should expect.

Theo Ratliff may very well take large portions of Blair's minutes; some nights though, even come playoff time, I know Blair will have an impact and earn additional time. Not that there's anything wrong with Ratliff taking that time because he could be an even bigger difference maker.. It just isn't proof Blair will fall off the map or even get relegated to the bench.

[crc21209]

Big props to Manu tonight :tu. Hopefully this gets his confidence even higher now..

[urunobili]

I think most of you are overeating with Manu's game 2nite... though this game was a step in the right direction... a confidence builder... something to raise his self belief... it wasn't THAT impressive...

[urunobili]

If his J keeps falling they'll have to respect that and then he'll start driving more.. therefore.. his game will be back once the J is deadly enough to be respected by the Defenders...

[Whisky Dog]

That shit actually made me sad, Manu played well and made plays but his explosiveness is gone. Dude almost got rejected by the rim on that two hander, and that never used to even be close. It's fucking sad to watch.

[JustinJDW]

He played well against a mediocre-at-best team. Glad Pop played him more in the 4th though.This.

Still though, I am glad to see Manu starting to get his rhythm back. :toast

[ElNono]

I think most of you are overeating with Manu's game 2nite... though this game was a step in the right direction... a confidence builder... something to raise his self belief... it wasn't THAT impressive...

Agree.

[ElNono]

He's an energy player with a skillset we could use if he can bring it consistently. Those types are good to have around, especially on a playoff team, because they fire up both their teammates and the crowd. Inexperienced as he may be, he's showing progression on both ends. Remember the Boston game?

First of all, he didn't look or act scared at all, even in the guts of the game (it's been a recurring theme anytime he plays - he's respectful but clearly a force to be reckoned with). Big plus. It's nice knowing the rookie won't be easily intimidated.

Second, he was a big part of that +23 rebounding margin, and played just about as spectacular as you could have wanted on both ends, including guarding multiple bigger, more talented (supposedly) Celtics with success and scoring against those same guys.

He's had some nice blocks and other defensive plays this season. And wouldn't you describe his time now as "limited"? He only averages 15MPG, yet posts some of the League's best rebounding stats per minute.

Playoffs are a different story though. And this has little to do with Blair himself and everything to do with Pop. What I'm saying is that Blair is going to have to be indeed a beast consistently in order to earn Pop's trust to play him in the big stage. Otherwise, Pop will go with his trusty vets.
And you can't really blame him. Name me rookies that substantially contributed to a championship team in the past 10 years or so...


Theo Ratliff may very well take large portions of Blair's minutes; some nights though, even come playoff time, I know Blair will have an impact and earn additional time. Not that there's anything wrong with Ratliff taking that time because he could be an even bigger difference maker.. It just isn't proof Blair will fall off the map or even get relegated to the bench.

Hey, I'm rooting for Dejuan. I want him to be the exception to the rule, and turn into the future of the Spurs franchise. But I also have to keep my expectations realistic, and well, if he surprises us, then great!

[z0sa]

Hey, I'm rooting for Dejuan. I want him to be the exception to the rule, and turn into the future of the Spurs franchise. But I also have to keep my expectations realistic, and well, if he surprises us, then great!

I think our expectations are more similar than you realize. Although I'm not sure why you'd think he could turn into the future of the franchise. A solid player he will be, but a franchise player? Isn't that Ducks shtick?

[ElNono]

I think our expectations are more similar than you realize. Although I'm not sure why you'd think he could turn into the future of the franchise. A solid player he will be, but a franchise player? Isn't that Ducks shtick?

Well, if we're going to think big... why not go all the way???!! :lol

[z0sa]

Well, if we're going to think big... why not go all the way???!! :lol

That'd be ridiculous but here's to Blair. :drunk I'd be amazed if he ends up being a consistent 10/10 player with an extended career. Hopefully he'll have his chance to do that and much more right here in SA a couple years down the road (or sooner?).

[ezau]

That shit actually made me sad, Manu played well and made plays but his explosiveness is gone. Dude almost got rejected by the rim on that two hander, and that never used to even be close. It's fucking sad to watch.

Even if he's explosiveness is gone or diminishing, he has to learn to play with what he has. Manu needs to pick his spots and that means he needs to develop a consistent mid-range game so he doesn't have to rely on driving all the time. Even if his athletic prowess is going down, the passion and basketball IQ of Manu will remain. I believe the team can deal with that because we have more offensive options than we've ever had in years.

[jacobdrj]

Playoffs are a different story though. And this has little to do with Blair himself and everything to do with Pop. What I'm saying is that Blair is going to have to be indeed a beast consistently in order to earn Pop's trust to play him in the big stage. Otherwise, Pop will go with his trusty vets.
And you can't really blame him. Name me rookies that substantially contributed to a championship team in the past 10 years or so...


Hmmm... Glen Davis. Manu Ginobli. Hmmm... That is pretty much it. Good call.

[rascal]

3 years???? What are you talking about?

This the the 3rd year that manu is not compleatly healthy.

[BillMc]

Manu had an excellent game. A healthy Manu is a win-win for us. It means he plays well, and his play seems to really help Jefferson. When Manu is on, we get two good players.

[ElNono]

This the the 3rd year that manu is not compleatly healthy.



2 years, typo..counting the playoffs..


Really? I was under the impression he got his first injury in the 2008 first round of the playoffs against Phoenix...
That's April 2008... 1.5 years ago... Not to mention he played half a season last year...

:rolleyes

[ElNono]

Hmmm... Glen Davis. Manu Ginobli. Hmmm... That is pretty much it. Good call.

Glen Davis averaged 2.3/1.5 in 8 mins of play off the bench in his rookie playoffs... hardly a substantial contribution... I'd say PJ Brown, Posey and Eddie House were much more important factors in that Celtics team....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Thanks, ducks, for posting my post from the game thread. :tu


Manu still has it. He just needs more time (healthy) and he'll be back at the top of his game. That will be interesting to see.

Fingers crossed. There were signs there today, but it's only a start, and it was against a donut team with a poor defense.


Manu had a 36-point monster game vs. Toronto and then had a horrible stretch until tonight..the key isn't whether or not he can do it once in while, it's whether he can still do it on a consistent basis..

Agreed. That is the question that needs to be answered before the trade deadline.


he just needs to take it easy, and then go into that extra gear come playoff time.

i don't understand the manu bashing. the guy goes 110% every time he steps on the court. you know the spurs aren't winning a championship if manu isn't healthy, right? so why bash the guy? maybe think about rooting for another team.

I don't think a lot of people are "bashing" Manu. I'm certainly not. I think most people are simply concerned that the injury toll over the years, and his age, has finally caught up with him and he's lost a step, because he's really having trouble getting past his man. However, he is still a smart player that can make big plays as we saw today. However, I don't think that's enough to make us a contender this year. He needs to be Manu at 90% of his prime or we're in trouble unless someone else like George Hill really emerges.


You know, I'm not against trading him if you can find a deal out there that would land you a Gasol-to-the-Lakers lopsided trade. I just don't know what's out there like that.

Blackjack suggested Manu for Ty Thomas and Salmons. Intriguing, because they get a 10m expiring, which they want to pursue the big FAs this year, and a veteran presence in the locker room. They also get rid of Thomas (rumoured to be on the outer for ages now). We get a decent swingman in Salmons (although he's having a poor year to date), and a great shotblocker/rebounder who is also unfortunately not very smart and a bit of a headcase. Could Timmy, Dice and Pop help Ty to be what he can be?

It's a longshot, but depending on what Manu shows before the deadline, it'll be out there amongst the discussion.


I'm assuming Pop would only authorize a Manu trade that netted us solid defensive player(s) back (presumably a big), so we could return (further) to Spurs style D. In the case that we did, I'm not sure how youth would be an issue. A barely turned 20 year old 37th pick in the 2009 draft is earning PT. Of course, I'm not sure if any such trade will be there. And, it'd be nice if we could pull a Gasol-like trade on someone who desperately wants caproom, however unlikely that is. It's too early and who knows what teams will be looking to do in 6 weeks - and that includes the Spurs. It will be very interesting seeing if Manu can stay healthy for a long stretch of time, and produce vintage performances as well.

See above.


I think most of you are overeating with Manu's game 2nite... though this game was a step in the right direction... a confidence builder... something to raise his self belief... it wasn't THAT impressive...

Agreed. That's what I was trying to tell you! :lol

PS Classic reverse-jinx employed by me today, literally the second before Manu got to the rim twice at the end of the game:


Manu has 11pts, but unfortunately none of them at the rim. He has tried hard on D but been torched at times. And he still looks slow. C'mon Manu, find your game, please.


eat fucking crow!!!!!!!!!!!


Manu with the dunk for ruffy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Spoke too soon. :D

Happy to see it! :)


ruff is a specialist...

SA 1:57
Manu Ginobili made Slam Dunk

SAC 2:06
Lost ball turnover on Tyreke Evans, Stolen by Manu Ginobili

SA 2:14
Manu Ginobili made Free Throw

SAC 2:14
Shooting foul on Omri Casspi

SA 2:14
Manu Ginobili made Driving layup


Yeah, it does happen a lot. I point something out that hasn't happened all game then it happens.

:lmao

[Brazil]

Yes big props to Manu, this game must be a confidence builder.

Just taking the opportunity to give props also to TP who played a very good game yesterday and who was a lot more bashed than Manu.

BTW, I was lurking the RJ thread: "Lot of people here ready to kick RJ when he plays bad and open threads against him but when he acutely do play better no one wanna say anything good about the guy? come one spurs fans, show him some love.

he played great tonight."

We can start the same for TP but he is definately not receiving the same treatment of the others. No TP played great threads just a Lawson vs. TP thread. Typical. Now I'm not going to open this kind of thread it's one game. No need to open trade his ass after a bad game and also no need to open tp is great when he played a good game.

ST is what it is.

[SpurNation]

Even if he's explosiveness is gone or diminishing, he has to learn to play with what he has. Manu needs to pick his spots and that means he needs to develop a consistent mid-range game so he doesn't have to rely on driving all the time. Even if his athletic prowess is going down, the passion and basketball IQ of Manu will remain. I believe the team can deal with that because we have more offensive options than we've ever had in years.

Good read. Good post.

This is the main reason I would like for him to start. Manu's BB IQ would translate into RJ scoring more from assists. Parker can still penetrate and have (speaking of spots) Ginobili and Jefferson to kick to. Ginobili's 3pt. shot is more reliable than Bogans' IMO and Ginobili can still bring the D that would help generate transition offense.

Ginobili on the court with Parker and Jefferson was a lethal trio of wing players that SAC didn't have an answer for. It would be nice to see that trio against some of the elite teams to see what would happen. That plus while having Parker and Jefferson on the court at the same time...Ginobili wouldn't have to do as much as he has to do when coming off the bench.

Great to see him playing at a higher level again and would gladly keep this Manu for the rest of the season over a Manu from 2 years ago playing only a few games every couple of months due to injury.

[silverblackfan]

Sure was nice to see Manu doing what we knew he was capable of. RJ playing well and Tony getting the extra assists helped a lot also. I realize this is beating up on the Kings, but the team needs to get their groove going somewhere.
When all 4 of our studs play like they can, this team is scary. Hopefully, this is the sign of things to come.

[LOL@MavsFan]

He did awesome...it was the Kings, but he has to start somewhere. Oh yeah.....

FUCK U DUCKS!

[Old School 44]

Great game by Manu, even if it was against the Kings. At this point, Manu (and the team) need any wins to boost their confidence. Sure Manu's lost a step, I doubt we'll ever see "high flying" Manu again, but I'll settle for "3-point shooting, playmaking" Manu. I just think he needs more court time to get in game shape.

Manu's career progression is sort of like Jordan's. Early in his career, he could drive and jam in traffic, now he's more of a jump shooter.

As far as Manu being traded, not that I'm against it, but I doubt it. Unless the trade is a slam dunk in our favor, Manu's not going anywhere.

[jacobdrj]

Glen Davis averaged 2.3/1.5 in 8 mins of play off the bench in his rookie playoffs... hardly a substantial contribution... I'd say PJ Brown, Posey and Eddie House were much more important factors in that Celtics team....

Agreed. I put any rookie that I saw any reasonable 'contribution'. There were literally only those two, and as you mentioned, Big Baby's contribution was marginal.

I was surprised, myself just how few rookies were part of that list.

But, at the same time, there were many 2nd year players that did contribute quite a bit.

[EricB]

Manu wasn't "super Manu" in 2007 either. They don't need "super Manu" they just need clutch playmaking and shooting Manu. Last night showed he still has that killer 4th quarter instinct.

[MmP]

What most of the bashers who says "It was only the Kings" don't see is that explosiveness comes with confidence. You can't go reckless to the rhym or shoot relaxed with no confidence. And that was clearly shown after those two plays in the 4th. After that he seemed more active, less hesitatant and more confident. He seems to feed his confidence with that kind of plays. Doesn't matter if it's Kings, Lakers or Bulls.

And how another poster said before in this thread. The guy is coming out of a bad injury and a recent one. He hasn't lost anything, he has to re adjust his game after not playing like in 5 months. It's natural.

It's a good start, let's hope he keeps it up from now on.

[EricB]

He's gonna have bad games in the near future also. Get used to it. He's coming back from an injury that sidelined him for what 10 out of the last 13 months?

[Flux451]

Manu had a 36-point monster game vs. Toronto and then had a horrible stretch until tonight..the key isn't whether or not he can do it once in while, it's whether he can still do it on a consistent basis..

testify!

That is what i concerned about

[rascal]

Just face it. Manu is an inconsistent player healthy or not. Too much hope in here hoping that manu will get completly healty and carry the team to a title.

What is more important is to get Jefferson, Hill and Blair playing up to their potential and try to add another frontline player before the trade deadline to beef up the frontline and stop hoping that Manu will be healty enough to carry the team on his back because that is the losing road to take.

[lefty]

Manu is at his best when he goes to the basket and doesn't take those stupid fucking stepback 3's :pctoss

But at the same time, during the regular season, I cringe everytime he goes to the basket, because of potential injuries

[urunobili]

Manu is at his best when he goes to the basket and doesn't take those stupid fucking stepback 3's :pctoss

But at the same time, during the regular season, I cringe everytime he goes to the basket, because of potential injuries

lol self ownage Manu going for 2-2 from behind the arc... and for you to know... until his outside J starts falling defenders won't go out at him and that's what needs to heppen if you want him to go to the hoop more often... again... first step to be back is to start hitting his long J's...

[lefty]

lol self ownage Manu going for 2-2 from behind the arc... and for you to know... until his outside J starts falling defenders won't go out at him and that's what needs to heppen if you want him to go to the hoop more often... again... first step to be back is to start hitting his long J's...
Ok so because he was 2-2 on 3's means I'm wrong?

Damn you're stupid

[urunobili]

Ok so because he was 2-2 on 3's means I'm wrong?

Damn you're stupid

I'm stupid? re-read your post, then mine and go fuck yourself idiot...

[lefty]

I'm stupid? re-read your post, then mine and go fuck yourself idiot...
How can I fuck myself?

Since you seem to be very knowledgeable in that department, would you mind sharing some tips?

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Manu is at his best when he goes to the basket and doesn't take those stupid fucking stepback 3's :pctoss

It's not either-or. One sets up the other. And, by the way, Manu's pretty good at those long step back shots. Watch some of the practice videos sometime. He makes ten in a row, easy, not even drawing iron.

[lefty]

It's not either-or. One sets up the other. And, by the way, Manu's pretty good at those long step back shots. Watch some of the practice videos sometime. He makes ten in a row, easy, not even drawing iron.
I'm not saying he is bad at it.
But how many times have we seen Manu going for a step back 3 while he could take it to the hole instead?

[urunobili]

How can I fuck myself?

Since you seem to be very knowledgeable in that department, would you mind sharing some tips?

re read my post.. you're bitching about the 3's though want more driving without understanding that his perimeter game needs to be established for him to start driving more often... :wakeup

[lefty]

re read my post.. you're bitching about the 3's though want more driving without understanding that his perimeter game needs to be established for him to start driving more often... :wakeup
ok

[ElNono]

Just face it. Manu is an inconsistent player healthy or not. Too much hope in here hoping that manu will get completly healty and carry the team to a title.

So, now that he has shown some semblance of health, you move the goalposts and claim his problem is consistency. :rolleyes


What is more important is to get Jefferson, Hill and Blair playing up to their potential and try to add another frontline player before the trade deadline to beef up the frontline and stop hoping that Manu will be healty enough to carry the team on his back because that is the losing road to take.

Like who? Somebody mentioned Ty Thomas and Salmons... I think that's a possibility, although I'm not convinced it can take us all the way.
If you're looking to get rid of the vets and start rebuilding with all young guns, you're going to have to wait until TD retires. Probably another 2 seasons.

[rascal]

I'm not saying he is bad at it.
But how many times have we seen Manu going for a step back 3 while he could take it to the hole instead?

A step back 3 is not a high % shot.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

A step back 3 is not a high % shot.

Hitting a 3 at 40% is like hitting a 2 at 60%. You get the same number of points over time from either.

[rascal]

So, now that he has shown some semblance of health, you move the goalposts and claim his problem is consistency. :rolleyes



Like who? Somebody mentioned Ty Thomas and Salmons... I think that's a possibility, although I'm not convinced it can take us all the way.
If you're looking to get rid of the vets and start rebuilding with all young guns, you're going to have to wait until TD retires. Probably another 2 seasons.

His problem has always been consistency. And if you expect Manu to stay healthy and carry the spurs to a title this year keep dreaming, its not going to happen.

[rascal]

Hitting a 3 at 40% is like hitting a 2 at 60%. You get the same number of points over time from either.


Manu has a career .376 3pt/fg average and I am sure his step back 3 point average in even lower being that is a tougher shot to hit.

[z0sa]

Let me say that a trade for Tyrus Thomas and Salmons is NOT the trade to take us over the top... two good players, not meant for this team especially for Manu. I'd take a healthy Manu over Salmons, for example, every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Let's not sell low... Manu's expiring sets a high price on his head.

[ElNono]

His problem has always been consistency. And if you expect Manu to stay healthy and carry the spurs to a title this year keep dreaming, its not going to happen.

I don't recall you bitching about his consistency when we were winning championships... :rolleyes

Still waiting for you to tell me who we should bring for Manu that's going to carry us to the title this year... While you do that, I'll keep dreaming...

[TJastal]

I love Manu as much as the next spurs fan.

But if we could get John Salmons for him and a guarantee never to see Bogans play another minute this year, I might have to rethink that love.

:D

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Manu has a career .376 3pt/fg average and I am sure his step back 3 point average in even lower being that is a tougher shot to hit.

OMG. You own me. I gave an example of 40% and you CAME BACK HARD with 37.6%.

I really have no comeback. This is such a stunning refutation I have no words.

[lennyalderette]

where are the morons who were saying we should trade him for tmac? i swear its getting ridiculous

[lennyalderette]

who ever thinks manu is one day going to be a terrible shooter is retarted, the last thing that goes is your shot, and thats why manu will be good for years to come

[pjjrfan]

Manu's play was to me the most inspiring part of last night's win. Yes, it wasn't against a formidable opponent, but it's a step in the right direction. And it gave me hope that Manu can get back to that whirling devrish we have come to expect and love and that opponents hate to see on the floor.

[Slippy]

What most of the bashers who says "It was only the Kings" don't see is that explosiveness comes with confidence. You can't go reckless to the rhym or shoot relaxed with no confidence. And that was clearly shown after those two plays in the 4th. After that he seemed more active, less hesitatant and more confident. He seems to feed his confidence with that kind of plays. Doesn't matter if it's Kings, Lakers or Bulls.

And how another poster said before in this thread. The guy is coming out of a bad injury and a recent one. He hasn't lost anything, he has to re adjust his game after not playing like in 5 months. It's natural.

It's a good start, let's hope he keeps it up from now on.

Definitely agree with you here . Confidence plays a big part and so does rhythm more-so coming from a long lay-off. David Robinson went throught this every season after his back troubles. Manu went through the same struggles last season in Janruary before hitting his stride in February.

The conceerning part from what i noticed yesterday was that he still looks hamprered. There's no way he's 100 percent, not even close. Probably more to do with the niggling injuries he's had recently than to do with the foot and leg ops from the off-season.

What i did like seeing how-ever was the way he paced himself, showing off other aspects of his game with-out going all out.

We can only hope there's a gradual improvement in his health while playing. The rest of it will come with game-time.

[benefactor]

Another vintage Manu game...26min, 22pts, 4reb, 2ast, 2stl, 7-12 FG, 3-4 3FG.

Stay tuned......

[Spursmania]

I'll toast to another vintage Manu night as well.:toast

[HarlemHeat37]

He showed the whole repertoire tonight..some great drives, the 3-point touch, nice passes..we need that Manu all year, it makes everybody fall into their role a lot easier..

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yup, that was vintage Manu, the kind of Manu we need to go anywhere this year.

Most pleasing was the way he was splitting traps and getting to the rack. Maybe he hasn't lost a step after all! ;)

[ElNono]

The most important thing is that he stays healthy... He'll have a bad game here and there, everybody does. Plus I still think he needs to get in better rhythm. His offense was good, but his defense still looks a little rusty.

[duncan228]

http://www.nba.com/spurs/media/wallpaper_091211_1024.jpg

[Chieflion]

I saw the double team split today, good enough for me. I did miss his 1st half performance. RJ and TD got into foul trouble this game. Manu Ginobili showed up to kick some ass.

[rascal]

I don't recall you bitching about his consistency when we were winning championships... :rolleyes

Still waiting for you to tell me who we should bring for Manu that's going to carry us to the title this year... While you do that, I'll keep dreaming...

Then you don't recall much. I have been saying for 3 years now Camby straightup for Manu. Now no guarantees it would put the spurs over the top but it puts the spurs in a better position to beat the lakers.

Develope Hill and Blair into the stars that they can be by giving them big minutes and get Jefferson up to speed by featuring him more in the offense and with camby added on the frontline, it more than makes up for Manu, who is quickly on the decline.

[ducks]

Another vintage Manu game...26min, 22pts, 4reb, 2ast, 2stl, 7-12 FG, 3-4 3FG.

Stay tuned......
huge first half 2 points second half though
he still needs to get his wind back

[benefactor]

huge first half 2 points second half though
he still needs to get his wind back
He's getting there. Seven more turnovers for TP though...........

[SpurNation]

The man is the essential definition of what a complete basketball player is. I don't think (when Manu is healthy) a better all around player in the league.

I pray he stays healthy for the rest of this season.

[sonic21]

The man is the essential definition of what a complete basketball player is. I don't think (when Manu is healthy) a better all around player in the league.

I pray he stays healthy for the rest of this season.

:rolleyes

he's great but let's not act like laker fans here

[ElNono]

Then you don't recall much. I have been saying for 3 years now Camby straightup for Manu. Now no guarantees it would put the spurs over the top but it puts the spurs in a better position to beat the lakers.

Marcus Camby is a good player, but far from what would put us over the top. He has basically no offensive game, is 3 years older than Manu, and never in 14 NBA seasons has completed a 82 games season. He wasn't much of a factor stopping us at all when he was younger and playing in Denver and we used to eliminate them every season.
Plus I also think you want to go younger not older with probably one of the trading chips that will get you the most in return.


Develop Hill and Blair into the stars that they can be by giving them big minutes and get Jefferson up to speed by featuring him more in the offense and with camby added on the frontline, it more than makes up for Manu, who is quickly on the decline.

This is more wishful thinking than anything. Manu is actually one of the few guys in our team that makes Hill and Blair better when he's out there with them. It might take a year or two for Hill and Blair to develop into complete NBA players... we don't have the luxury of waiting that long...

[SpurNation]

:rolleyes

he's great but let's not act like laker fans here

In past years...Ginobili has already proven to be more clutch than Kobe.

http://www.scoresreport.com/2009/11/13/who-is-mr-clutch-in-the-nba/

But other than that article. Can you name one player in the league that can also, when needed, get a steal, grab a rebound, make a shot by either penetrating; jumper or 3pt, dish an assist, make an important FT, or lock down on defense at any given time in a game better than Ginobili?

Of course there are other players in the league that can perform any one of these things better than Ginobili. But I can't think of one that can do all of them at any given time when needed as well as Ginobili has done in the past.

That's what I mean by complete.

[EricB]

Lmao rascal complains about Manu being injury prone yet wants to trade him for Marcus Camby :lmao

[benefactor]

Lmao rascal complains about Manu being injury prone yet wants to trade him for Marcus Cambyses :lmao
I thought the same thing. It's a lateral move at the very, very best and we are still banking on him making through the playoffs without getting hurt...just like with Manu. Not to mention he is playing like 30mpg for the Clips right now. Why would they trade him for a guard?

I agree with El Nono...if Manu is going to be traded then it has to be for young talent. Right now though, the focus should be on him trying to get all the way back...because vintage Manu puts a trophy in the case.

[emanueldavidginobili]

lets remember hes barley getting any minutes, so whenhes getting these 20 points 22 and all these good scoring nights hes not getting alot of minutes, he scored 22 points in 26 minutes lol

[z0sa]

Plus I also think you want to go younger not older with probably one of the trading chips that will get you the most in return.

I'm glad you're beginning to come around to my side of the Force. :hat We don't HAVE to get a Gasol-Lakers' trade advantage for Manu, but we need younger athletes who can contribute significantly on the defensive end - for the rest of the Duncan era, at least. We have TP, RJ and Tim Duncan for offense, which should be enough to beat anybody provided we have the defense to take large portions of any team's offense away. I think we would with the right trade.

Not that I WANT to trade Manu, I probably wouldn't. But spurfan must accept that he is the most valuable trading piece of the rest of the Tim Duncan era. And that value is going to absolutely plummet after the trade deadline.. if we don't trade him before then, we have essentially decided on who we will ride into Timmy's sunset.




This is more wishful thinking than anything. Manu is actually one of the few guys in our team that makes Hill and Blair better when he's out there with them. It might take a year or two for Hill and Blair to develop into complete NBA players... we don't have the luxury of waiting that long...

Manu's play-making (it encompasses multiple areas of his game due to his high IQ) would definitely be his most missed attribute, should the right trade come along. Everything flows much smoother, on both ends, when he's in a groove.

[ElNono]

I'm glad you're beginning to come around to my side of the Force. :hat We don't HAVE to get a Gasol-Lakers' trade advantage for Manu, but we need younger athletes who can contribute significantly on the defensive end - for the rest of the Duncan era, at least. We have TP, RJ and Tim Duncan for offense, which should be enough to beat anybody provided we have the defense to take large portions of any team's offense away. I think we would with the right trade.

Eh, no. If the premise is that we need a superstar-caliber Manu Ginobili to win it all, then trading him for young guns basically means you're forfeiting any more chances at a championships in the Duncan era. Who are these 'younger athletes that can can contribute significantly on the defensive end'? Are they capable of doing that in the playoffs? You know, Tyrus Thomas is a kid that has a lot of potential, but he's got a lot to learn.

So, yeah, in order to keep our championship chances intact we would need to trade him for another star-caliber player, which is basically a Gasol-type trade.


Not that I WANT to trade Manu, I probably wouldn't. But spurfan must accept that he is the most valuable trading piece of the rest of the Tim Duncan era. And that value is going to absolutely plummet after the trade deadline.. if we don't trade him before then, we have essentially decided on who we will ride into Timmy's sunset.

I would be very surprised if Manu is healthy and the FO trades him for anything but another vet star-caliber player (You know, the VC, Wade kind of player).

[z0sa]

Eh, no. If the premise is that we need a superstar-caliber Manu Ginobili to win it all,

It isn't, and that's probably impossible anyway... No offense Manu, I still think you got tons of game but it's not 07 anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I agree last season we needed a superstar quality Manu to win it all and even then it was slim chances indeed with little margin for error.. but I'm not sure Manu has that ability in him anymore.

I think we just need Manu healthy, rested and at full strength (which isn't superstar level) along with the rest of the team clicking together and rolling. We still may need superstar-like games from him to notch wins over the Lakers or Denver or Dallas or _____ in the playoffs, sure... but now we're getting into an area where predictions are based on 3 different teams, a Spurs team with Manu on it, a Spurs team with who knows on it, and an opponent who may still make moves themselves.


then trading him for young guns basically means you're forfeiting any more championships in the Duncan era.

Disagree, if your definition of young guns is guys who had no chance of earning quality minutes on on this team.. trust me, I wouldn't give up this season for anything. I believe the Spurs have the team to win it all if Manu is healthy, but there's the next 2 seasons afterward to think about, too.. which is why I advocate trading for the right "younger guns" in the first place. No one knows if Manu can still play the way we know he can (and I'd be extremely surprised if he could consistently keep it up for a few years so that we're always in the title hunt until Timmy's retirement). If we could somehow get back to being the best defensive team in the League, I think we have the offense with TP, RJ and Tim (and dare I say guys like Dyess, Bonner, Mason and even Blair) to overcome any of the juggernaut teams'. The main question is who could we get to do that? I fully accept the notion no such trade may ever exist, and if so, let's keep Manu... I also admit that if the choice is too hard, I'd rather stick with Manu, as well; but that doesn't mean we should just ignore all options except your mysterious "gasol-like trade".


Who are these 'younger athletes that can can contribute significantly on the defensive end'?

What is your proposed Gasol-like trade?


Are they capable of doing that in the playoffs? You know, Tyrus Thomas is a kid that has a lot of potential, but he's got a lot to learn.

I've said already that there's no reason to sell low... Manu's skill level could still be very high (though I disagree it will ever be superstar level again, he won't get the minutes nor touches even if his body allowed), and his expiring is large.. he's worth more, perhaps even a lot more, than he should be - because of that unique combination.

That said, Tyrus Thomas and Salmons is a trade I wouldn't do... good players, I think, don't get me wrong. Thomas is too slow BBiq wise, despite his athletic prowess. He is one who just couldn't have the type of defensive stamp we need right now.. and a strong defender is something I wouldn't label Salmons. Beside, I think this is one of the times when you can trade an offensive player like Ginobili for strong defenders who lack offensive games, because we have enough offense to supplement them as long as we are holding teams below 90...

I don't have any trade ideas myself, because I'm not in the Spurs FO and I essentially don't watch other teams or know much about the CBA, admittedly. Yet I would be very surprised if there aren't fairly attractive offers for Manu on the table right now, just not good enough for the wary/smart FO to jump on.



I would be very surprised if Manu is healthy and the FO trades him for anything but another vet star-caliber player (You know, the VC, Wade kind of player).

I would be surprised if they traded Manu, period. I'm not sure why they would trade him for another perimeter scorer though, since we have an overload of those..

[Interrohater]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Players are not stocks. You don't buy low and sell high. When a player is at his peak value, it's stupid to trade him. Or when you think his value won't get any higher. If this were true, then we would have traded Duncan 2 years back for some young guys just to groom into all-stars, and then trade them again. The Spurs are not a farm or a D-league affiliate. We don't (and shouldn't!) trade guys when they mature like a savings bond. Can you imagine if we had traded Robinson when he was at his peak? We'd probably have no championships in the rafters and Spurstalk would be a 10 member website. But it would be the St. Louis Spurs or something like that.

If a player has crazy value, that's precisely the time that you want to keep him.

[z0sa]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Players are not stocks. You don't buy low and sell high. When a player is at his peak value, it's stupid to trade him. Or when you think his value won't get any higher. If this were true, then we would have traded Duncan 2 years back for some young guys just to groom into all-stars, and then trade them again. The Spurs are not a farm or a D-league affiliate. We don't (and shouldn't!) trade guys when they mature like a savings bond. Can you imagine if we had traded Robinson when he was at his peak? We'd probably have no championships in the rafters and Spurstalk would be a 10 member website. But it would be the St. Louis Spurs or something like that.

If a player has crazy value, that's precisely the time that you want to keep him.

Are you saying that because of this logic, we should not trade Manu? I think you are confused about the situation, then. Manu is NOT at his peak. If he was, would not even be thinking about trading him. The reason one could reasonably trade him is because of his expiring - it could net more, younger talent in return, especially in the case of a "gasol-like trade." A Gasol-like trade would push us over the top. There's also no guarantee Manu will even be healthy come this Spring, much less the next two afterwards (and there is no guarantee Manu will be a Spur after this spring, either - trading him before the trade deadline would guarantee a return on his value).

[YoMamaIsCallin]

This is all crazy talk. Manu is not going to be traded. And if anyone on the Spurs management team proposed trading him for Camby, they'd probably be fired.

[Cherry]

“He’s Manu Ginobili.”

and he will retire a Spur. :wakeup

[z0sa]

Manu will retire a Spur. :wakeup

That's how I always envisioned it.

[Chomag]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Players are not stocks. You don't buy low and sell high. When a player is at his peak value, it's stupid to trade him. Or when you think his value won't get any higher. If this were true, then we would have traded Duncan 2 years back for some young guys just to groom into all-stars, and then trade them again. The Spurs are not a farm or a D-league affiliate. We don't (and shouldn't!) trade guys when they mature like a savings bond. Can you imagine if we had traded Robinson when he was at his peak? We'd probably have no championships in the rafters and Spurstalk would be a 10 member website. But it would be the St. Louis Spurs or something like that.

If a player has crazy value, that's precisely the time that you want to keep him.

I disagree, the NBA does have a business side to it. Trading Manu would be a complete business decision.

Of course if you think of it with you heart no one would want to trade Manu just like some of you that are saying "Manu isnt going anywhere,he is going to retire a Spur."

I believe we currently only have 1 franchise player on our team and thats Tim.

[ElNono]

It isn't, and that's probably impossible anyway... No offense Manu, I still think you got tons of game but it's not 07 anymore.
Don't get me wrong, I agree last season we needed a superstar quality Manu to win it all and even then it was slim chances indeed with little margin for error.. but I'm not sure Manu has that ability in him anymore.
I think we just need Manu healthy, rested and at full strength (which isn't superstar level) along with the rest of the team clicking together and rolling. We still may need superstar-like games from him to notch wins over the Lakers or Denver or Dallas or _____ in the playoffs, sure... but now we're getting into an area where predictions are based on 3 different teams, a Spurs team with Manu on it, a Spurs team with who knows on it, and an opponent who may still make moves themselves.

I think we need a battle tested guy that's an X factor and that gives you a plus out there in the playoffs. Manu has proven he can be that guy. I don't really know who else could give you that, since they're most only superstar guys out there that do such stuff.


Disagree, if your definition of young guns is guys who had no chance of earning quality minutes on on this team.. trust me, I wouldn't give up this season for anything. I believe the Spurs have the team to win it all if Manu is healthy, but there's the next 2 seasons afterward to think about, too.. which is why I advocate trading for the right "younger guns" in the first place. No one knows if Manu can still play the way we know he can (and I'd be extremely surprised if he could consistently keep it up for a few years so that we're always in the title hunt until Timmy's retirement). If we could somehow get back to being the best defensive team in the League, I think we have the offense with TP, RJ and Tim (and dare I say guys like Dyess, Bonner, Mason and even Blair) to overcome any of the juggernaut teams'. The main question is who could we get to do that? I fully accept the notion no such trade may ever exist, and if so, let's keep Manu... I also admit that if the choice is too hard, I'd rather stick with Manu, as well; but that doesn't mean we should just ignore all options except your mysterious "gasol-like trade".

I have to think our FO does look at all the options out there all the time, and if you actually think about it, there's one constant: The Spurs do not trade for young guys. This FO trades for vets. All the young talent we have on our roster has been acquired through the draft. Have you given any thought of why that is?

Now, I understand your point about being an elite defensive team again. Unfortunately, I can count the extremely good perimeter players that could turn us back into that elite defensive team (basically replacing what Bowen gave us) with one hand: Artest, Battier, Bell, Ariza... and that's pretty much it (please, I might be missing someone, let me know). I don't think any of those guys are really available or are worth a Manu Ginobili...


What is your proposed Gasol-like trade?

I already said it should be superstar talent, like Wade or VC. Those guys are not available though, that's why I don't see any trades happening unless Manu gets injured again, at which point you would be trading for the value of his expiring contract and would get much less.


I've said already that there's no reason to sell low... Manu's skill level could still be very high (though I disagree it will ever be superstar level again, he won't get the minutes nor touches even if his body allowed), and his expiring is large.. he's worth more, perhaps even a lot more, than he should be - because of that unique combination.
That said, Tyrus Thomas and Salmons is a trade I wouldn't do... good players, I think, don't get me wrong. Thomas is too slow BBiq wise, despite his athletic prowess. He is one who just couldn't have the type of defensive stamp we need right now.. and a strong defender is something I wouldn't label Salmons. Beside, I think this is one of the times when you can trade an offensive player like Ginobili for strong defenders who lack offensive games, because we have enough offense to supplement them as long as we are holding teams below 90...
I don't have any trade ideas myself, because I'm not in the Spurs FO and I essentially don't watch other teams or know much about the CBA, admittedly. Yet I would be very surprised if there aren't fairly attractive offers for Manu on the table right now, just not good enough for the wary/smart FO to jump on.
I would be surprised if they traded Manu, period. I'm not sure why they would trade him for another perimeter scorer though, since we have an overload of those..


I think it would have to be a ridiculously lopsided trade, or simply Manu getting seriously injured again, and then trading his expiring. You can't only think what you're getting in return if he's healthy. You also have to think he'll be running another contender's bench next season, and how that complicates your own pursuit of a championship.

[ElNono]

I disagree, the NBA does have a business side to it. Trading Manu would be a complete business decision.

Of course if you think of it with you heart no one would want to trade Manu just like some of you that are saying "Manu isnt going anywhere,he is going to retire a Spur."

I believe we currently only have 1 franchise player on our team and thats Tim.

Well, looking at it from a business side, Ginobili, and not the franchise player, I believe is the top merchandise seller for the team. So when you look at the business, you have to look at all aspects of it.

[TMTTRIO]

I just don't see how he gets traded. It's not like we're going to get a great steal for a superstar with him and as for trading him for some younger guys if Manu can stay healthy from now until trade deadline why would you want to risk loosing Manu and hoping the new guy can come in right away and fill his role without it affecting the chemistry with the team or even it taking a lot of time to adjust (of course if we continue to struggle it wouldn't matter). After this year with Manu going into FA we can afford some other players if we need to.

[thOOdee]

I believe

[emanueldavidginobili]

manu looked good for the third straight game in arow, keep going manu and stay healthy!

[Manu-of-steel]

i don't see any player that is available in the trade block who can give what manu can give to spurs. If there is any, that would not be a plus because the chemistry would be disrupted. I don't see a trade coming for manu.

[Josepatches_]

No way we can get anyone better than Manu for us if we trade him.

He's old,he had a lot of problems with his health in the past years.

But if he's healthy there aren't many players in the league better than him.His health is one of the key of the season for us but he is not the same for others NBA teams because they don't know him as well to offer the best players for him.

So his trade value is lower than his real value for us.


If Manu is free then teams like Lakers,Boston or the Cavs could be really interested on him because they don't need him to fight for the tittle so it's not a high risk if he has another health problem. He would be only one more piece of the puzzle.

But the rest of the teams can offer us for him what Manu can give us

[Spurs Brazil]

Now that Manu outside shot is back I'm looking foward to his drive and finish game

[Manu-of-steel]

Now that Manu outside shot is back I'm looking foward to his drive and finish game

Agree. Manu's 3-point shot is back. I'm excited for the coming game against the suns. I hope we hand the suns their first home loss.Go spurs!

[rascal]

Why is no one posting in this thread today, 2-8 for 7 points in 31 minutes.

[vander]

manu sure is awesome against shitty teams

[ElNono]

Why is no one posting in this thread today, 2-8 for 7 points in 31 minutes.


manu sure is awesome against shitty teams

I thought he payed well last night, aside from the bad shooting...
5 rebounds, 6 assists, only 1 turnover... played some D...

[DAF86]

Why is no one posting in this thread today, 2-8 for 7 points in 31 minutes.

Duh, 'cause we only post in this thread when he plays well. :wakeup

[DAF86]

manu sure is awesome against shitty teams

Better than sucking against everybody.