Diiiirrrkkk!!!!!

[sribb43]

He is a top 5 player this season, hands down

[endrity]

Other than Kobe and LeBron, who else is better than him this season???

[Findog]

Other than Kobe and LeBron, who else is better than him this season???

This season - nobody. He's done this several times this year, won them a game that they had no business winning.

[badfish22]

Really think about how many big shots he made tonight. And they all looked like they didn't have a chance when he let them go.
I think Kobe is the only other player in the league that can hit those kinda shots.

[sribb43]

Other than Kobe and LeBron, who else is better than him this season???

I'd put Melo up there this year, he is playing exactly like he did in the playoffs

[endrity]

I'd put Melo up there this year, he is playing exactly like he did in the playoffs

True. Forgot him.

But Wade and Howard are having subpar seasons for their standards, CP has been hurt, Roy has been OK, KG and Duncan are way past their prime.

[Texas Chili Dog]

Another spectacular performance down the stretch from Dirk.

[BlackSwordsMan]

top 5? I have him as the top 2, playing on such a shitty team and still has them at top competitive condition

[sribb43]

top 5? I have him as the top 2, playing on such a shitty team and still has them at top competitive condition

if i didnt say top 5 all the kobe, lebron, dwade, d12, melo, duncan, oden and CP3 dick suckers would get there pussies hurt

[Texas Chili Dog]

ok I've always wondered how you get your usernames a different color. Do you have to have a certain # of posts?

[badfish22]

Dirk basically hit three game winning shots tonight.

Good game for the troops.

[Smooth Criminal]

The only PF in the league I'd take over Pau is Dirk. He's the best Pf on the planet.

[Smooth Criminal]

if i didnt say top 5 all the kobe, lebron, dwade, d12, melo, duncan, oden and CP3 dick suckers would get there pussies hurt

Dirk is better than everyone in bold

[dirk4mvp]

The only PF in the league I'd take over Pau is Dirk. He's the best Pf on the planet.

Why don't you tell spurfan that :lol

[Findog]

Dirk is better than everyone in bold

God, finally a non-Mavs fan that knows what is up.

[Ghazi]

Dirk has played like the 3rd or 4th best player this year... Kobe/Lebron 1/2... Melo/Dirk 3/4 it's up for debate. Paul/Howard/Wade are bigger, more marketable names, and quite frankly Wade at his very best >>> Dirk, but Dirk has outperformed all 3 this year.

[Allanon]

Kobe was 7-24 tonight.

[Findog]

Kobe was 7-24 tonight.

He also had a broken finger. Why doesn't he just sit out 3 weeks and let it heal? The Lakers will be fine in the long run, no team in the West can realistically touch them. They might lose the #1 seed in the interim. JET broke his finger last year and missed 3 weeks. What is the prognosis if Kobe goes on the shelf for that finger?

[HarlemHeat37]

Scoring is the only advantage Dirk has over Duncan, Gasol and Howard..he has a huge usage % advantage over all 3 of the other guys, which helps his scoring numbers..he's the least efficient of the 3, and when you take away his FT shooting, it's a huge disadvantage to his efficiency numbers..

His passing % is lower than Duncan and Gasol by a HUGE margin..his rebounding % is lower than all 3 of the other guys by a massive margin..while he's become an average/sometimes above average defender, he's still significantly behind the other 3..

Dirk might be playing better than them this year, but it's very arguable..if he's better, it's pretty much by default due to Howard having an off-year compared to what we're used to seeing from him, Duncan's lack of help leading to losses and Gasol missing games..

I don't really care if somebody says Dirk is better than the 3 of them, it CAN be argued in his favor..but he's getting really overrated here, after being underrated by the media and general fans for a few years..

[Smooth Criminal]

He also had a broken finger. Why doesn't he just sit out 3 weeks and let it heal? The Lakers will be fine in the long run, no team in the West can realistically touch them. They might lose the #1 seed in the interim. JET broke his finger last year and missed 3 weeks. What is the prognosis if Kobe goes on the shelf for that finger?

No clue. I haven't seen anything about it besides he'll play with it.

[Findog]

Dirk has always been better than Gasol. Gasol was a mediocre #1 in Memphis and he's turned into a great #2 in LA. What Dirk does for Dallas and what Gasol does for LA can't really be compared.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree that Dirk is better than Gasol, I'm just saying, the separation people seem to think he currently has over those 3 is exaggerated IMO..

[Smooth Criminal]

Scoring is the only advantage Dirk has over Duncan, Gasol and Howard..he has a huge usage % advantage over all 3 of the other guys, which helps his scoring numbers..he's the least efficient of the 3, and when you take away his FT shooting, it's a huge disadvantage to his efficiency numbers..

His passing % is lower than Duncan and Gasol by a HUGE margin..his rebounding % is lower than all 3 of the other guys by a massive margin..while he's become an average/sometimes above average defender, he's still significantly behind the other 3..

Dirk might be playing better than them this year, but it's very arguable..if he's better, it's pretty much by default due to Howard having an off-year compared to what we're used to seeing from him, Duncan's lack of help leading to losses and Gasol missing games..

I don't really care if somebody says Dirk is better than the 3 of them, it CAN be argued in his favor..but he's getting really overrated here, after being underrated by the media and general fans for a few years..

TP, Ginobili, Dick, McDyess, & Blair are not help?

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan has a very good supporting cast, they just haven't played like it this year so far, as you would probably see in the high numbers of meltdown threads about Parker, Ginobili and Jefferson this season..

My point is that Duncan's play has been absolutely great so far, but it might go unnoticed outside of here due to the Spurs underachieving..

[BRHornet45]

lol overrated whitey

[DPG21920]

Dirk has played fantastic, but look at Duncan's numbers. They are up there.

[dirk4mvp]

I agree that Dirk is better than Gasol, I'm just saying, the separation people seem to think he currently has over those 3 is exaggerated IMO..

Your opinions are usually shit so no one cares.

[badfish22]

Scoring is the only advantage Dirk has over Duncan, Gasol and Howard..he has a huge usage % advantage over all 3 of the other guys, which helps his scoring numbers..he's the least efficient of the 3, and when you take away his FT shooting, it's a huge disadvantage to his efficiency numbers..

His passing % is lower than Duncan and Gasol by a HUGE margin..his rebounding % is lower than all 3 of the other guys by a massive margin..while he's become an average/sometimes above average defender, he's still significantly behind the other 3..

Dirk might be playing better than them this year, but it's very arguable..if he's better, it's pretty much by default due to Howard having an off-year compared to what we're used to seeing from him, Duncan's lack of help leading to losses and Gasol missing games..

I don't really care if somebody says Dirk is better than the 3 of them, it CAN be argued in his favor..but he's getting really overrated here, after being underrated by the media and general fans for a few years..

You don't get much dumber then this.

[Findog]

lol overrated whitey

ok, guy who never watches basketball

[Findog]

TP, Ginobili, Dick, McDyess, & Blair are not help?

Duncan - still a very good player but slightly past his prime.

Ginobili - broken and past his prime.

McDyess - solid rotation player, nothing more.

Blair - solid rookie contributor, nothing more.

Jefferson - $14 million a year fourth option struggling to fit into the Spurs system. Actually, I don't really know that he's struggling, as there are only so many shots available and he can't take 20 shots a game like he did in Milwaukee. But still, the Spurs are paying $14 million for their fourth option.

Parker - fine #2 type.

[badfish22]

You gotta love ol BR finally working up the courage to show his face after Mike, Dan and Tony took a shit in his house.

[DPG21920]

Dirk is definitely in the top 5 MVP conversations right now. If the Spurs record were a little better, Duncan would be as well (maybe not top 5, but in the picture).

When ^ said if Duncan had help, he meant healthy guys. The team has the talent, but for various reasons, it has not fit as of yet.

[darkwitzki]

We could put Dirk at par with Kobe, Melo and LeBron :toast

[jag]

Why don't you tell spurfan that :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferiority_complex

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk > Pau > Duncan

[jag]

Such feelings can arise from an imagined or actual inferiority in the afflicted person. It is often subconscious, and is thought to drive afflicted individuals to overcompensate, resulting either in spectacular achievement or extreme schizotypal behavior, or both. Unlike a normal feeling of inferiority, which can act as an incentive for achievement, an inferiority complex is an advanced state of discouragement, often resulting in a retreat from difficulties.

[dav4463]

Duncan is a "team" player. Everything goes through him on offense whether he scores or not. His defense is head and shoulders above Dirk.

Dirk is a "me" player. He takes it on his shoulders and depends on himself to single-handedly win games. Sometimes he succeeds. He's a great shooter.

[crc21209]

He also had a broken finger. Why doesn't he just sit out 3 weeks and let it heal? The Lakers will be fine in the long run, no team in the West can realistically touch them. They might lose the #1 seed in the interim. JET broke his finger last year and missed 3 weeks. What is the prognosis if Kobe goes on the shelf for that finger?

Because Kobe cant afford to lose his stats and chance at another MVP. :lol

[crc21209]

We could put Dirk at par with Kobe, Melo and LeBron :toast

:rollin

[Findog]

Dirk is a "me" player. He takes it on his shoulders and depends on himself to single-handedly win games. Sometimes he succeeds. He's a great shooter.

If you're trying to imply Dirk is either selfish or lacking in bball IQ, you are dead wrong. I'm not sure what your point is.

[crc21209]

Duncan - still a very good player but slightly past his prime.

Ginobili - broken and past his prime.

McDyess - solid rotation player, nothing more.

Blair - solid rookie contributor, nothing more.

Jefferson - $14 million a year fourth option struggling to fit into the Spurs system. Actually, I don't really know that he's struggling, as there are only so many shots available and he can't take 20 shots a game like he did in Milwaukee. But still, the Spurs are paying $14 million for their fourth option.

Parker - fine #2 type.


Marion- a guy who was only good because of Nash/Run-n-Gun system, nothing more.

Howard- Broken down, always hurt, nothing more.

Terry- Good for stretches because of his streakiness, nothing more.

Dampier- Good for boards, will score once in a while, nothing more.

Kidd- past his prime, settles for jumpshots now..nothing more.

[dirk4mvp]

he mad

[dirk4mvp]

Marion- a guy who was only good because of Nash/Run-n-Gun system, nothing more.

Howard- Broken down, always hurt, nothing more.

Terry- Good for stretches because of his streakiness, nothing more.

Dampier- Good for boards, will score once in a while, nothing more.

Kidd- past his prime, settles for jumpshots now..nothing more.

Listen, Poe. You don't have to be upset because the Spurs suck ass.

[Jacob1983]

Dirk is way better than Gasol. I know that people hate on Dirk because he has no ring but how many playoff wins did Gasol have when he was with the Grizzlies? Zero. Besides, Gasol is on a team with Kobe. Seriously, Dirk has carried the Mavs this season.

[jag]

Dirk is a "me" player. He takes it on his shoulders and depends on himself to single-handedly win games. Sometimes he succeeds. He's a great shooter.

come on brah....


come on.

[Findog]

Marion- a guy who was only good because of Nash/Run-n-Gun system, nothing more.

Howard- Broken down, always hurt, nothing more.

Terry- Good for stretches because of his streakiness, nothing more.

Dampier- Good for boards, will score once in a while, nothing more.

Kidd- past his prime, settles for jumpshots now..nothing more.

This thread is about Dirk and the 17-7 Mavs, not the 11-9 Spurs.

Smooches and hugs,

Findog

[BRHornet45]

You gotta love ol BR finally working up the courage to show his face after Mike, Dan and Tony took a shit in his house.

son you do realize we play your choking vagina's this Monday right? ... If I was you, I would keep your mouth on LOCK!

[BRHornet45]

sons I really hate white people from Dallas, Texas

[Findog]

son you do realize we play your choking vagina's this Monday right? ... If I was you, I would keep your mouth on LOCK!

Hey, are you gonna create a thread to celebrate the 13 points, 13 assists and 6 rebounds the best point guard in the League had last night?

BTW, I loved that thread you created to celebrate Chrissy's last-second, game-winning layup against the T-Pups.

[jag]

sons I really hate white people from Dallas, Texas

What race of people do wiggers actually identify with?

[Findog]

sons I really hate white people from Dallas, Texas

Better PG: Chris Duhon or Chris Paul?

Duhon: 22 points, 9 assists and 2 boards in a road W.

Paul: 13 points, 13 assists and 6 boards in a home L.

[Findog]

What race of people do wiggers actually identify with?

African-Americans that are descendants of West African slaves, because that's who they want to be.

[BRHornet45]

Hey, are you gonna create a thread to celebrate the 13 points, 13 assists and 6 rebounds the best point guard in the League had last night?

BTW, I loved that thread you created to celebrate Chrissy's last-second, game-winning layup against the T-Pups.

son keep talking smack. Monday night can't come soon enough. even though I hate the city of Dallas, I decided to fly out there for the game anyways. where is the best place to find slutty broads?

[jag]

African-Americans that are descendants of West African slaves, because that's who they want to be.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=11905&dateline=1225161097

[Findog]

Knicks are only 2.5 games worse than 121-63, and they give heavy minutes to Danillo Galinari, Larry Hughes, Al Harrington and Wilson Chandler.

[jag]

son keep talking smack. Monday night can't come soon enough. even though I hate the city of Dallas, I decided to fly out there for the game anyways. where is the best place to find slutty broads?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Greyhound_Bus_6080.jpg

This is not flying.

[Findog]

son keep talking smack. Monday night can't come soon enough. even though I hate the city of Dallas, I decided to fly out there for the game anyways. where is the best place to find slutty broads?

Harry Hines Boulevard if you want streetwalkers, Uptown if you want slutty sorority types, Bishop Arts District for indie hipster chicks, Knox/Henderson and north of 635 in Addison for Cougars, and Cedar Springs and Turtle Creek if you want some cock.

[BRHornet45]

son you do not take a greyhound bus. you will get raped on those things. just ask ghazi

[Findog]

Any other Dallasites in this thread that can help BR out? I want him to get some syphillis while he's up here.

[BRHornet45]

Harry Hines Boulevard if you want streetwalkers, Uptown if you want slutty sorority types, Bishop Arts District for indie hipster chicks, Knox/Henderson and north of 635 in Addision for Cougars, and Cedar Springs and Turtle Creek if you want some cock,

son would you like to have some drinks before or after the game? I promise not to rub in the beat down too much.

[Findog]

son would you like to have some drinks before or after the game? I promise not to rub in the beat down too much.

Sure. Just PM me.

[LnGrrrR]

Dirks been awesome this year, and I hope he keeps it up to getthe belated props he deserves.

[jag]

son would you like to have some drinks before or after the game? I promise not to rub in the beat down too much.

Does this have an alternative meaning in Creole?

[BRHornet45]

oh sons and by the way ... I may as well take this time to once again THANK the city of Dallas for helping clean up New Orleans after Katrina. THANK YOU again for taking in many of our rats and allowing them to be YOUR problem now. (Houston helped us the most though)

[BRHornet45]

Does this have an alternative meaning in Creole?

son why are you so damn bitter and racist?

[jag]

son why are you so damn bitter and racist?

Sexual innuendo has nothing to do with racism.

Maybe i'm trying to get a sexual rise out of you.

Maybe that boosts my ego.

[jag]

and for the record, Wigger isn't a race.

[badfish22]

son you do realize we play your choking vagina's this Monday right? ... If I was you, I would keep your mouth on LOCK!

son we were one JJB chokejob away from beating you without Howard on the tail end of a b2b.
We are gonna kick the shit out of your pathetic team, god bless

[BRHornet45]

son we were one JJB chokejob away from beating you without Howard on the tail end of a b2b.
We are gonna kick the shit out of your pathetic team, god bless

LMAO typical Maverick fan excuse ... "but but but what if!!!"

bitch be a man!

[badfish22]

and for the record, Wigger isn't a race.


come on brah....


come on.


What race of people do wiggers actually identify with?

sons this is my favorite spur fan.

[badfish22]

he mad

oh boy, he mad.

[badfish22]

LMAO typical Maverick fan excuse ... "but but but what if!!!"

bitch be a man!

I won't need a excuse after the boys in blue kick the shit out of Chrissy and the gang.

[BRHornet45]

I won't need a excuse after the boys in blue kick the shit out of Chrissy and the gang.

son my boys in creole blue are going to kick your bitches in blue right in their pussies. just wait.

[BRHornet45]

son and then NEXT WEEK the Saints are going to dick whip Tony Homo and the Cowgirls. who dat!

[Findog]

son and then NEXT WEEK the Saints are going to dick whip Tony Homo and the Cowgirls. who dat!

well, no disagreement there

[redzero]

if i didnt say top 5 all the kobe, lebron, dwade, d12, melo, duncan, oden and CP3 dick suckers would get there pussies hurt

And yet you make this topic sucking Dirk's dick.

[BRHornet45]

son where is that fried shrimp from?

[badfish22]

son and then NEXT WEEK the Saints are going to dick whip Tony Homo and the Cowgirls. who dat!

Son, I have the ultimate faith in my Mavs to make Chrissy Paul cry as if he just suffered a minor injury, but I'll have to hold off on my 'boys.
The Giants swayed my confidence in them a little bit. Tomorrow is the balls check. They win that game, then its on.

[badfish22]

And yet you make this topic sucking Dirk's dick.

And they slowly start reveling themselves.

[sribb43]

Harry Hines Boulevard if you want streetwalkers, Uptown if you want slutty sorority types, Bishop Arts District for indie hipster chicks, Knox/Henderson and north of 635 in Addison for Cougars, and Cedar Springs and Turtle Creek if you want some cock.

Even the sluts from Big D want nothin to do with BR....he might have a shot at some cock near Cedar Springs though....if he wants to improve his chance try wearing a Jazz John Amechi jersey

[BRHornet45]

Son, I have the ultimate faith in my Mavs to make Chrissy Paul cry as if he just suffered a minor injury, but I'll have to hold off on my 'boys.
The Giants swayed my confidence in them a little bit. Tomorrow is the balls check. They win that game, then its on.

Giants? ouch ...

http://i48.tinypic.com/6qlde0.jpg

[monosylab1k]

BRHornet, when you're in Dallas, the place to go for easy sluts is the Round Up Saloon.

[BRHornet45]

BRHornet, when you're in Dallas, the place to go for easy sluts is the Round Up Saloon.

thank you

sons finally a decent ass white person from Dallas. Jesus!

[Boston Pancake]

son keep talking smack. Monday night can't come soon enough. even though I hate the city of Dallas, I decided to fly out there for the game anyways. where is the best place to find slutty broads?

You little cuckold you probably like it in the ass with a strap-on.

[BRHornet45]

You little cuckold you probably like it in the ass with a strap-on.

lol sons wow ...

did someone from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts just say that?

[LOL@MavsFan]

Cant stand the guy, but those were some clutch shots. Like the Cowboys, let's see if he can do it when it counts in the playoffs

[LOL@MavsFan]

lol sons wow ...

did someone from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts just say that?

Dont give him a haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad time :lol

[sook]

lol sons wow ...

did someone from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts just say that?
Wtf!??!?!

Haha :lol

And a "Hybrid" blade...seriously :lmao:lmao. I thought those were oreos


2 funniest dudes on ST, and is blade rogue btw? Someone jsut mentioned this yest it has to be.

[BRHornet45]

LOL son who gives a flying fuck about Giants though? New Yorkers would rather save the time for Yankees or even the Knicks.

oh please son! don't give me that crap ... just a couple years ago you were probably hugging the nuts of Eli and them Super Bowl champs!

[Ghazi]

0% chance we lose to the Whorenets on Monday... 0.

[BRHornet45]

0% chance we lose to the Whorenets on Monday... 0.

oh son you SON OF A BITCH .... that's all I needed to hear. thank you.

[naico]

Really think about how many big shots he made tonight. And they all looked like they didn't have a chance when he let them go.
I think Kobe is the only other player in the league that can hit those kinda shots.

They are the only ones taking shots like that..

[IronMexican]

Dirk > Pau > Duncan

:tu

[DPG21920]

:tu

LMFAO at you giving a thumbs up...

Duncan is still the number 1 man, Pau is still the very great side kick.

Duncan: 32 MPG, 55% FG, 75% FT, 19 PTS, 10.6 REB, 3.6 AST, .6 STL, 2 BLK

Pau Gas: 34 MPG, 58% FG, 90% FT, 18 PTS. 11.5 REB, 4.2 AST. .5 STL, 1.3 BLK

One gets great looks because of Kobe, the other creates great looks and still anchors the defense without another legit 7 footer next to him.

If anything, it is Dirk > Duncan > Pau. But as the season goes on and if the Spurs other players improve their level of play, Duncan and Dirk will be battling.

[Culburn369]

DPG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sweetheart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pumpkinpuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You gonna bring home the bacon Tuesday innin', fry it up in a pan, and make Cubby a happy man?

[DPG21920]

Tim: PER - 27.32 PER RANK - 3

Pau: PER - 26.22 PER RANK - 5

Dirk: PER - 25.31 PER RANK - 9

[DPG21920]

DPG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sweetheart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pumpkinpuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You gonna bring home the bacon Tuesday innin', fry it up in a pan, and make Cubby a happy man?

Cully, are you still upset about the loss in UTAH? Let it go. They can beat anyone there. Lakers are still the best!

[Culburn369]

Cully, are you still upset about the loss in UTAH? Let it go. They can beat anyone there. Lakers are still the best!

Your white flag is acknowledged, the terms of your surrender accepted.

Just don't try Jappin' me, sweetheart.

[Fpoonsie]

You don't get much dumber then this.

[giggle]

[FkLA]

MVP candidate so far? absolutely

undoubtedly the best PF in the nba? haha

[dirk4mvp]

undoubtedly the best PF in the nba

:tu

[mavs>spurs2]

FkLA's takes are gettin pretty strong these days right dirk brah? He's spot on

[dirk4mvp]

I totally agree with him on his Manu > Dirk opinion.

[Findog]

Hey, Manu won two Euroleague titles or some shit. Therefore, Manu > Dirk.

[Danny.Zhu]

Just as always.

[HarlemHeat37]

Free Cristal!

[badfish22]

MVP candidate so far? absolutely

undoubtedly the best PF in the nba? haha


its gonna be ok.

[badfish22]

In the last 4+ years who has the most game winning shots with under :02 seconds to play? Is it the Black Mamba? Lebron "next Jordan" James? DWade?

Nope......
Dirk Nowitzki has done this eight times, including four in the last two seasons. Wade has done it five, no one else has done it more than four.

[Findog]

I thought Dirk wasn't clutch. Come again?

[dirk4mvp]

fluke shots. nothing to see here.

[badfish22]

Dumbasses always shut up once you bring the stats out.

[mavsfan1000]

Dumbasses always shut up once you bring the stats out.
There was never doubt Dirk could dominate in the regular season. He is very streaky in the playoffs though. He needs to relax. He looks so uptight in the playoffs.

[Culburn369]

He looks so uptight in the playoffs.

You try having your ass cheeks hold onto a straight pin when a 20 mule team is pulling on it. Dirk did it.

[monosylab1k]

There's a difference between being a clutch player and making gamewinning shots. It's nice that Dirk has come through like that, but I don't see those shots as proving that he's "clutch".

Clutch players don't contribute to the team blowing a huge lead with 5 minutes to go in a game that will put you up 3-0 in the Finals. Especially missing a key free throw. Clutch players don't allow defensive strategy to take them out of a series completely like Dirk allowed to happen against Golden State. Clutch players put their foot down, draw a line in the sand, and say "There is not any force on this earth that will stop me from winning this game/series/championship"

And it's not that Wade or Duncan or Kobe has never blown a game or a series the way Dirk has, it's that Wade and Duncan and Kobe have also made enough clutch plays to win a championship. They drew their line in the sand. Dirk hasn't. And for the record, I don't consider LeBron a "clutch" player either yet.

[duhoh]

if i didnt say top 5 all the kobe, lebron, dwade, d12, melo, duncan, oden and CP3 dick suckers would get there pussies hurt

for sure :lol

dirk's having a solid year. his defense, especially help D, has been a nice surprise

[stretch]

Tim: PER - 27.32 PER RANK - 3

Pau: PER - 26.22 PER RANK - 5

Dirk: PER - 25.31 PER RANK - 9

funny that spurfans now wanna use PER rating as if it means something just because timmy has a superior rating, despite the fact that dirk was constantly being at the top of the league for so many years prior and moron spurfans dismissed the stat

how convenient

[stretch]

There's a difference between being a clutch player and making gamewinning shots. It's nice that Dirk has come through like that, but I don't see those shots as proving that he's "clutch".

Clutch players don't contribute to the team blowing a huge lead with 5 minutes to go in a game that will put you up 3-0 in the Finals. Especially missing a key free throw. Clutch players don't allow defensive strategy to take them out of a series completely like Dirk allowed to happen against Golden State. Clutch players put their foot down, draw a line in the sand, and say "There is not any force on this earth that will stop me from winning this game/series/championship"

And it's not that Wade or Duncan or Kobe has never blown a game or a series the way Dirk has, it's that Wade and Duncan and Kobe have also made enough clutch plays to win a championship. They drew their line in the sand. Dirk hasn't. And for the record, I don't consider LeBron a "clutch" player either yet.

dirk is clutch as hell. all the proof you need is that just about any lame-brained fan of an opposing team would agree that when they see dirk with the ball in crunch time, they are scared shitless, much the way as mavs fans we would be scared to see guys like kobe, lebron, wade, and others with the ball in crunch-time. we just dont get to see dirk from that angle, so its easier as mavs fans to discredit his clutchness.

and in all honesty, the whole "soft white euro player" has something to do with that image too. its the reason some people label dirk as a "choker", while someone like KG gets labeled as an "all-time great" and a "winner" when KG is far worse of a choker than Dirk could ever be.

[Xylus]

In the last 2 minutes of a game, I'd take Nash. In the last 5 seconds of a game, I'd take Dirk.

Clutchest big man in the NBA.

[Ghazi]

There's a difference between being a clutch player and making gamewinning shots. It's nice that Dirk has come through like that, but I don't see those shots as proving that he's "clutch".

Clutch players don't contribute to the team blowing a huge lead with 5 minutes to go in a game that will put you up 3-0 in the Finals. Especially missing a key free throw. Clutch players don't allow defensive strategy to take them out of a series completely like Dirk allowed to happen against Golden State. Clutch players put their foot down, draw a line in the sand, and say "There is not any force on this earth that will stop me from winning this game/series/championship"

And it's not that Wade or Duncan or Kobe has never blown a game or a series the way Dirk has, it's that Wade and Duncan and Kobe have also made enough clutch plays to win a championship. They drew their line in the sand. Dirk hasn't. And for the record, I don't consider LeBron a "clutch" player either yet.


Dirk got fucked out of the Finals, let's just get that out of the way. The shot that put the Mavs up in Game 5 was clutch as fuck, and would be a career defining, championship shot if not for the worst call in the history of the Finals.

So that discredits D-Whistle's title, as for Duncan and Kobe... well yeah in their primes they're better than Dirk, but they also had all-NBA caliber sidekicks. Dirk's sidekicks aren't even All STARS (Howard/JET).

[stretch]

In the last 2 minutes of a game, I'd take Nash. In the last 5 seconds of a game, I'd take Dirk.

Clutchest big man in the NBA.

you mean nash + a shitload of picks

give me dirk. he can work with picks, work off the ball, or work iso.

nash doesnt demand double teams the way dirk does. he just demands someone that knows how d up and can fight through a pick.

[Xylus]

you mean nash + a shitload of picks

give me dirk. he can work with picks, work off the ball, or work iso.

nash doesnt demand double teams the way dirk does. he just demands someone that knows how d up and can fight through a pick.

That's why I'd take Dirk in the final 5 seconds, because he's much harder to block than Nash. But I've seen Nash hit way too many shots in the clutch to take any other player in the final two minutes. Doesn't he have the highest Clutch FG% in the league? Gotta find that stat...

[stretch]

That's why I'd take Dirk in the final 5 seconds, because he's much harder to block than Nash. But I've seen Nash hit way too many shots in the clutch to take any other player in the final two minutes. Doesn't he have the highest Clutch FG% in the league? Gotta find that stat...

and he still comes off of a shitload of picks and does most of his work against shitty defenders or shitty defensive teams. dont get me wrong, hes clutch as hell, but a good defensive team/scheme can stop him a lot easier than it can stop dirk.

[Goran Dragic]

That's why I'd take Dirk in the final 5 seconds, because he's much harder to block than Nash. But I've seen Nash hit way too many shots in the clutch to take any other player in the final two minutes. Doesn't he have the highest Clutch FG% in the league? Gotta find that stat...


I'd love to see how many turnovers Nash has in the last two minutes.

[FkLA]

I totally agree with him on his Manu > Dirk opinion.

Link?

And to elaborate on my first post...Dirk is great, he's been an MVP candidate no doubt, but to claim that he is definitely and undoubtedly the best PF in the game today is simply a case of Mavs fans going crazy after a couple of big shots. The game is played on two sides of the ball, plain and simply put Dirk doesnt make a huge impact on the game defensively. I love how you guys criticize Dwights offensive woes, which I completely agree with btw (I find it ridiculous that people automatically consider him a Top 5 player despite his lack of a post game and automatically give him most of the credit for the Magic's Finals trip last year when Hidayet was their playmaker offensively), but than turn around and completely overlook Dirk being an average defender. You can go ahead and say he is the best offensive PF in the game I have no problem with that, but overall there is a guy here in San Antonio that despite being a senior citizen still impacts the game more than Dirk.

[sonic21]

Link?

And to elaborate on my first post...Dirk is great, he's been an MVP candidate no doubt, but to claim that he is definitely and undoubtedly the best PF in the game today

he is. and it's kinda obvious this year.

[FkLA]

offensively of course...undoubtedly too.

[badfish22]

Link?
, but to claim that he is definitely and undoubtedly the best PF in the game today is simply a case of Mavs fans going crazy after a couple of big shots.

To claim that he isn't is a case of a Spur fan livin in the past/being a homer.

[Goran Dragic]

Fabricio Oberto (1 NBA championship AND multiple Euroleague championships) > Dirk.

[FkLA]

So on the one hand you guys dissect Dwight having no post game but on the other hand we're supposed to overlook the fact that Dirk is an average defender? And Im the homer right.Tim even at this advanced age, with the knee braces, with osteoperosis on his bones, with a 5 inch vertical still impacts the game more. He still has a big impact on both sides of the ball...give me Duncan and his walker over Dirk.

[badfish22]

So on the one hand you guys dissect Dwight having no post game but on the other hand we're supposed to overlook the fact that Dirk is an average defender? And Im the homer right.



Dirk offense impacts the game a lot more than Dwights D. And I would say Dirks D is a little above average while Dwights offense is just bad, its based on athleticism alone.

And yes you are being a homer if you think Duncan is still better than Dirk.

[sonic21]

Dirk has been better than duncan the past 2 years and working on a 3rd right now.

[badfish22]

Dirk has been better than duncan the past 2 years and working on a 3rd right now.

:toast

Dirk
Duncan
Pau
KG

Although Duncan and Pau are close.

[DPG21920]

funny that spurfans now wanna use PER rating as if it means something just because timmy has a superior rating, despite the fact that dirk was constantly being at the top of the league for so many years prior and moron spurfans dismissed the stat

how convenient

Well considering that Duncan has a higher career PER than Dirk what tha fack

[jag]

Dirk offense impacts the game a lot more than Dwights D. And I would say Dirks D is a little above average while Dwights offense is just bad, its based on athleticism alone.

And yes you are being a homer if you think Duncan is still better than Dirk.


Dirk and Duncan impact games differently. Different things are required and expected out of them. I honestly thought the quality of Tim's game was going to plummet this season...but it's been extremely impressive what he can do when he's looked at as the #1 option on offense. Duncan has been able to single handedly take over games, and people continue to ignore that he's able to perform at that level. Just look at his stats during the 4-1 series with Dallas. He's not supposed to be capable of that anymore.

This season

Per 36-min
Dirk:
is a 7-footer that is pulling down 7.6 Rebounds
Shooting 47%
Averaging 25.3 pts
with 1.4 blks

Per 36-min
Duncan:
Is averaging 11.4 Rebounds
Shooting 55%
Averaging 21.4 Points
with 2.2 blocks



There's no doubt in my mind that Dirk is more durable. You can put him out there and allow him to be the #1 option day in and day out. Dirk is averaging 9 more minutes per game than Tim. I'll poo poo on him for being a naive German...but Dirk is a beast. That being said, i don't see how it makes someone a "living in the past homer" for thinking that Duncan is on the same level as Dirk. If I give Dirk an edge, it's because he's much more durable... Not because he's outclassing Duncan. From everything i've been reading lately, everyone is trying to stick Duncan in the coffin...and it's certainly not time for that yet.

[badfish22]

Dirk and Duncan impact games differently. Different things are required and expected out of them. I honestly thought the quality of Tim's game was going to plummet this season...but it's been extremely impressive what he can do when he's looked at as the #1 option on offense. Duncan has been able to single handedly take over games, and people continue to ignore that he's able to perform at that level. Just look at his stats during the 4-1 series with Dallas. He's not supposed to be capable of that anymore.

This season

Per 36-min
Dirk:
is a 7-footer that is pulling down 7.6 Rebounds
Shooting 47%
Averaging 25.3 pts
with 1.4 blks

Per 36-min
Duncan:
Is averaging 11.4 Rebounds
Shooting 55%
Averaging 21.4 Points
with 2.2 blocks



There's no doubt in my mind that Dirk is more durable. You can put him out there and allow him to be the #1 option day in and day out. Dirk is averaging 9 more minutes per game than Tim. I'll poo poo on him for being a naive German...but Dirk is a beast. That being said, i don't see how it makes someone a "living in the past homer" for thinking that Duncan is on the same level as Dirk. If I give Dirk an edge, it's because he's much more durable... Not because he's outclassing Duncan. From everything i've been reading lately, everyone is trying to stick Duncan in the coffin...and it's certainly not time for that yet.


Good post. And I'll admit, Duncan has impressed me this year, thats why I have him above Pau and KG. But Dirk is the clear #1 in my, and many others, eyes. Dirk defense is no longer a liability, so you can't really point to that as a glaring weakness. And combine that with his obviously more dominating offensive game, and hes having a special year.

I have cringed a bit when I look at Dirks rebounding #'s this year, but only because I know critics will point to that as a big flaw for his great season.
In reality, its more from his team mates just being better rebounders.
Look at last game, Dirk only had 6 boards. Seems bad right? But its not terrible when you see the rest of the starting front court grabbed 33 boards.

I think this team is the best rebounding teams the Mavs have ever had. Kidd and Josh are two guards who love to crash the boards, while Marion and Damps greatest strengths might be rebounding. Dirks teammates are just better rebounders.

[DPG21920]

If Duncan was taking as many shots as Dirk he would average just as many points, but over the long season it would wear him down.

Last year, I felt Duncan was definitely better than Dirk the first half of the season. Then the load he was carrying wore him down and Dirk remained great, if not improved throughout. Like Jag said, there is the difference.

Spurs have quite a few players like that now, if you count Duncan and Manu.

[jag]

Good post. And I'll admit, Duncan has impressed me this year, thats why I have him above Pau and KG. But Dirk is the clear #1 in my, and many others, eyes. Dirk defense is no longer a liability, so you can't really point to that as a glaring weakness. And combine that with his obviously more dominating offensive game, and hes having a special year.

I have cringed a bit when I look at Dirks rebounding #'s this year, but only because I know critics will point to that as a big flaw for his great season.
In reality, its more from his team mates just being better rebounders.
Look at last game, Dirk only had 6 boards. Seems bad right? But its not terrible when you see the rest of the starting front court grabbed 33 boards.

I think this team is the best rebounding teams the Mavs have ever had. Kidd and Josh are two guards who love to crash the boards, while Marion and Damps greatest strengths might be rebounding. Dirks teammates are just better rebounders.

It's hard for me to disagree with Dirk as the #1, and I respect his game and the mindset that he brings to every game. Dirk's durability allows him to play the kind of minutes that it requires to put up the kind of numbers that he has this season. In that regard he's earned the #1 spot.

I just think people need to recognize that it's still accurate to stick Duncan up there with the elite in this league. It's easy to forget what kind of game Duncan is capable of bringing. And his stats are quite impressive when compared to Dirk's who is having a monster season.
For the Spurs, Duncan is rarely the #1 option, and there are nights when he's even the #5 option behind Parker, Manu, Jefferson, and Hill...and yet he's still putting up the stats I previously posted. Dirk is most times forced to be the #1 option, but he's showing out ...so i give him props. :toast

[Indazone]

Dirk still has no post game...maybe he should do what Kobe did and take lessons from the Master, Hakeem Olajuwan

lol

[Findog]

Duncan is still an elite player and it's still permissible to rank him ahead of Dirk. You could make an argument for either one. Duncan is still a fucking badass.

[mavs>spurs2]

Dirk's decrease in rebounding is a product of Marion, Contract year beastmode Dampier averaging a double double, guys like gooden, thomas, and humphries stepping in and producing, and Kidd being the best rebounding PG in the league. Dirk could average double digits easily on most teams.

[duhoh]

Duncan is still an elite player and it's still permissible to rank him ahead of Dirk. You could make an argument for either one. Duncan is still a fucking badass.
:toast

[Sportstudi]

Duncan is still an elite player and it's still permissible to rank him ahead of Dirk. You could make an argument for either one. Duncan is still a fucking badass.

:toast

[stretch]

Duncan is still an elite player and it's still permissible to rank him ahead of Dirk. You could make an argument for either one. Duncan is still a fucking badass.

i dont get this crap

why is it that its "permissible" to rank duncan ahead of dirk, because of his "completeness", but hes not ahead of guys like wade or lebron who are commonly ranked at the top of the league mainly because of their incredible offensive abilities? yeah, they do other stuff as well, like rack up assists or rebounds, but dirk does his share of "other stuff" too.

he might be the biggest single mismatch in the NBA, just because he is basically a 2-guard in a 7 footers body. and its worse than someone like kobe, because at least you can still match up guys like kobe with size and not have to worry about giving it up elsewhere. with dirk, its either you stick a big-man on him, and the middle is wide open or the rebounding massively suffers, or you put a small guy on him, which causes a mismatch in itself, and either causes another mismatch elsewhere on the court, or causes the team to lose size inside again. and no matter who you put on him, he demands a double team if you want any chance of consistently stopping him.

dirk isnt near as bad of a defender as he previously was, and mavs>spurs was right in regards to his rebounding. when you got a team full of good rebounders, its going to cause the numbers for everyone to drop a bit. but whenever dirk needs to, he can beast on the boards too. his anticipation is very commonly overlooked. a lot of players get boards due to athleticism, but he gets his from being so good at judging the right time to go up for it, and it allows him to consistently take away rebounds from people commonly thought of as being superior rebounders.

basketball is a game of matchups, and dirk causes as big of mis-match issues as anyone in NBA history.

[Findog]

i dont get this crap

why is it that its "permissible" to rank duncan ahead of dirk,

Because he's having a terrific season, practically the only Spur carrying his weight and playing up to expectations, and he is still a much better interior defender than Dirk. He's also a traditional big that plays in the post. I think it's possible to win a title with Dirk as your best player, but I'd still take a guy like Duncan for a playoff run. He hasn't lost that much off his fastball.

Put it another way: I don't think the Mavs get worse if you traded them straight up right now. They might even be a little better.

[stretch]

Because he's having a terrific season, practically the only Spur carrying his weight and playing up to expectations, and he is still a much better interior defender than Dirk. He's also a traditional big that plays in the post. I think it's possible to win a title with Dirk as your best player, but I'd still take a guy like Duncan for a playoff run. He hasn't lost that much off his fastball.

hes still very good, no doubt about it. and yes he is playing well this season, and a better interior defender than dirk, and can play in the post, but hes not what he used to be, thats for sure. he can be contained on a consistent basis with 1-on-1 defense. some people feel its arguable whether or not hes the #1 guy at this point. now i feel he is still the centerpiece of that team, but i think there definitely is question about who the go-to guy is nowadays when the spurs need a bucket. it seems like parker has become the guy the majority of the time the past few years. but dirk is without question the #1 guy on the mavs, and everyone knows it. the only other guy is Terry, and thats only if they wanna throw a curveball, or if the team completely focuses on denying dirk the ball, then terry usually will be open.

again, duncan is still quite good, but dirk is better at this point, and is the guy that opponents fear more, and the guy that torches opponents more. if you need a guy to completely dominate a game for a solid 2-3 minute stretch, dirk is the man, no question about it. dirk > duncan

[badfish22]

Because he's having a terrific season, practically the only Spur carrying his weight and playing up to expectations, and he is still a much better interior defender than Dirk. He's also a traditional big that plays in the post. I think it's possible to win a title with Dirk as your best player, but I'd still take a guy like Duncan for a playoff run. He hasn't lost that much off his fastball.

Put it another way: I don't think the Mavs get worse if you traded them straight up right now. They might even be a little better.

I was with you until the final sentence. Our offense is Dirk. Thats it really. How many times have we had to just give Dirk the ball and say "here, save our ass."
Duncan can't take over a game offensively like Dirk can.

[Findog]

I was with you until the final sentence. Our offense is Dirk. Thats it really. How many times have we had to just give Dirk the ball and say "here, save our ass."
Duncan can't take over a game offensively like Dirk can.

Yes he can. He rarely scores 30 a game during the regular season. The Spurs don't need him to score 30 a game during the regular season.

[stretch]

Put it another way: I don't think the Mavs get worse if you traded them straight up right now. They might even be a little better.

hell no

if that happens, then they will have some SERIOUS offensive issues, because the team already lacks guys who can create their own offense. the way dirk makes teams account for him, it really opens things up. duncan doesnt draw that kind of attention anymore. it might allow terry and howard to get a few more points on their season average, but likely at the cost of efficency, as well as crunchtime execution.

[Findog]

hes still very good, no doubt about it. and yes he is playing well this season, and a better interior defender than dirk, and can play in the post, but hes not what he used to be, thats for sure. he can be contained on a consistent basis with 1-on-1 defense. some people feel its arguable whether or not hes the #1 guy at this point. now i feel he is still the centerpiece of that team, but i think there definitely is question about who the go-to guy is nowadays when the spurs need a bucket. it seems like parker has become the guy the majority of the time the past few years. but dirk is without question the #1 guy on the mavs, and everyone knows it. the only other guy is Terry, and thats only if they wanna throw a curveball, or if the team completely focuses on denying dirk the ball, then terry usually will be open.

again, duncan is still quite good, but dirk is better at this point, and is the guy that opponents fear more, and the guy that torches opponents more. if you need a guy to completely dominate a game for a solid 2-3 minute stretch, dirk is the man, no question about it. dirk > duncan

Duncan is still the Spurs best player. And you'll rarely see him go off for 30-35 in a regular-season game, because usually the Spurs don't need him to. He's not the reason that they're only 12-9.

[Findog]

hell no

if that happens, then they will have some SERIOUS offensive issues, because the team already lacks guys who can create their own offense. the way dirk makes teams account for him, it really opens things up. duncan doesnt draw that kind of attention anymore. it might allow terry and howard to get a few more points on their season average, but likely at the cost of efficency, as well as crunchtime execution.

The Mavs would have a low-post scorer and interior defender. They'd adjust. Kidd and Terry are great spot-up shooters, and Marion and Howard would be the beneficiaries of passes off of cuts.

[stretch]

Yes he can. He rarely scores 30 a game during the regular season. The Spurs don't need him to score 30 a game during the regular season.

you just sat here talking about how he is carrying the spurs singlehandedly this season and isnt getting much help. so that pretty much tells me that the spurs need him to score more, but he obviously isnt doing that

the guy simply isnt able to do those things anymore at this point. yeah he can explode from time to time, but he cant keep it up consistently.

[stretch]

He's not the reason that they're only 12-9.

like i said... he obviously needs to do more, but isnt. if he can do more like you say he is capable of doing, why isnt he? if he had been, its likely the team wouldnt just be 12-9. injuries and inconsistency around him are no excuse, as the mavs have had just as much, if not more of an issue surrounding dirk in regards to injuries and inconsistency, but dirk has battled through and weathered the storm, keeping his team near the top of the NBA.

[Findog]

you just sat here talking about how he is carrying the spurs singlehandedly this season and isnt getting much help. so that pretty much tells me that the spurs need him to score more, but he obviously isnt doing that

He's doing what he usually does in the regular season, but his supporting cast isn't. Popovich, Buford and Duncan are not panicking over the fact that it's December 15th and they're 12-9.

[stretch]

The Mavs would have a low-post scorer and interior defender. They'd adjust. Kidd and Terry are great spot-up shooters, and Marion and Howard would be the beneficiaries of passes off of cuts.

they wouldnt be getting those kinds of open looks though is my point. duncan does not command double teams like he used to, or the way dirk does. you keep forgetting that obviously. duncan can consistently be guarded one-on-one these days. yeah he will get his 18-22 points, but you dont have to really worry about him torching you too badly either, whereas dirk is a guy you worry about going off for 40 or 50 any night and you cannot let him get into a groove.

[Findog]

like i said... he obviously needs to do more, but isnt. if he can do more like you say he is capable of doing, why isnt he?

He's pacing himself for an 82-game grind. He's not going to go into Game 7 of the Finals mode every night so they can be 14-7 instead of 12-9. The Spurs aren't the kind of franchise that freaks out over being 12-9. They'll be fine.

[stretch]

He's doing what he usually does in the regular season, but his supporting cast isn't. Popovich, Buford and Duncan are not panicking over the fact that it's December 15th and they're 12-9.

and whats funny is that, as well as dirk has been playing, even he clearly has been half-assing it quite a bit this year, only kicking into another gear when the team needs him to. yet he still has been lighting it up. wait until after the all-star break. like he has done the past several year, dirk too will kick it up a notch.

[mavs>spurs2]

A spur fan said it best just yesterday, I can't remember which one it was. He said something along the lines of "Dirk has been better than Duncan for 2 years now and is working on a 3rd." When a spurfan, a member of the biggest homer fanbase on the planet, admits that your player is better than their GOAT, you know there's some kind of truth to it

[stretch]

He's pacing himself for an 82-game grind. He's not going to go into Game 7 of the Finals mode every night so they can be 14-7 instead of 12-9. The Spurs aren't the kind of franchise that freaks out over being 12-9. They'll be fine.

i agree

and dirk isnt doing that either. hes only kicking it up when his team needs him in games that are winnable. other than that, he has been playing very half-assed.

[Findog]

they wouldnt be getting those kinds of open looks though is my point. duncan does not command double teams like he used to, or the way dirk does.

How many Spurs games do you watch? Yes, he still draws doubles. Not every single possession. Dirk doesn't draw double teams every single possession.

[mavs>spurs2]

i agree

and dirk isnt doing that either. hes only kicking it up when his team needs him in games that are winnable. other than that, he has been playing very half-assed.

I agree. At times this year he's looked terrible, he started the season shooting like 44%. And at other times, like the last 3 trips down the court vs Charlotte, he went beastmode.

[Findog]

and whats funny is that, as well as dirk has been playing, even he clearly has been half-assing it quite a bit this year, only kicking into another gear when the team needs him to. yet he still has been lighting it up. wait until after the all-star break. like he has done the past several year, dirk too will kick it up a notch.

Well so far the Mavs have better cohesion and chemistry on the court than the Spurs do. Dallas has also won almost all their games decided by 5 points or less. A lot of that is a function of luck. Expect it to even out over the course of an 82-game season. I'm just saying, it wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs gradually jell and then come April they finish 55-27.

[Muser]

Dirk has been an offensive monster these past 3/4 years, i'd take Dirks offense over Duncans. Defense is a different story, Dirk has improved his a lot since he came into the league but even now i'd give the nod to Duncan.

Overall i'd give Dirk a very slight edge, but you can't really go wrong with either of them.

[stretch]

How many Spurs games do you watch? Yes, he still draws doubles. Not every single possession. Dirk doesn't draw double teams every single possession.

i watch plenty. how many do you watch?

yeah, from time to time he does, but i said not nearly the way that dirk does. and its obvious that hes not as dangerous as he used to be.

[Findog]

Overall i'd give Dirk a very slight edge, but you can't really go wrong with either of them.

That's my point. You can make an argument for either one of them. A lot of it would also depend on what kind of team you have around them. With Timmy, you want spot-up shooters and slashers. With Dirk you want guys who can create their own shot like Terry and Howard.

[Findog]

i watch plenty. how many do you watch?

yeah, from time to time he does, but i said not nearly the way that dirk does. and its obvious that hes not as dangerous as he used to be.

His defense is still better than Dirk's, and when the games slow down in the playoffs into a half-court grind, you might be better off with Duncan. My only point is that it is not clear-cut either way which one is 'better' at this point. I think it's a tossup.

[mavs>spurs2]

Dirk has been an offensive monster these past 3/4 years, i'd take Dirks offense over Duncans. Defense is a different story, Dirk has improved his a lot since he came into the league but even now i'd give the nod to Duncan.

Overall i'd give Dirk a very slight edge, but you can't really go wrong with either of them.

an honest post i can agree with. Duncan is a damn good player and all good players eventually grow older and lose a step, although duncan has aged gracefully and that step was a very small one. :toast seriously, you should post more often. i get tired of listening to the garbage spewed from the other mouthbreathers, a good take from a spur fan is really refreshing. props man, i can't say it enough

[badfish22]

Dirk has been an offensive monster these past 3/4 years, i'd take Dirks offense over Duncans. Defense is a different story, Dirk has improved his a lot since he came into the league but even now i'd give the nod to Duncan.

Overall i'd give Dirk a very slight edge, but you can't really go wrong with either of them.

+1 to all of this

[stretch]

Well so far the Mavs have better cohesion and chemistry on the court than the Spurs do. Dallas has also won almost all their games decided by 5 points or less. A lot of that is a function of luck. Expect it to even out over the course of an 82-game season. I'm just saying, it wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs gradually jell and then come April they finish 55-27.

id say its moreso a function of execution and clutch play by dirk

of course the spurs are gonna finish stronger than they are now, although im not sure they will win 55. i just dont think their team is built as well as it used to be, and bowen i think is a much bigger loss than people think, especially with his corner 3 that scared the hell out of people.

[stretch]

That's my point. You can make an argument for either one of them. A lot of it would also depend on what kind of team you have around them. With Timmy, you want spot-up shooters and slashers. With Dirk you want guys who can create their own shot like Terry and Howard.

if you say that, then the spurs should be worlds better with a guy like dirk, because they have three guys who can create their own shot (parker, ginobili, jefferson). and some spot up shooters to go along with it (bonner, ginobili, finley). whereas, its just "arguable" that the mavs may be slightly better at certain times with duncan in the lineup. i think that pretty much settles the argument.

[FkLA]

Findog :toast

The rest of you, you guys are such damn homers...you guys criticize Dwight's offense as the reason he isnt on Dirk's level and expect us to ignore Dirk being an average defender. Now you guys bring up Dirk's supporting cast as the reason he isnt beasting on the boards yet ignore the reason Duncan only averages 19 ppg. The developement of Parker and Manu, and now the addition of Jefferson, combined with a decrease of minutes has ALOT to do with that. Duncan even with his walker and 5 inch vertical still has the potential to average 22-23 ppg, it just isnt required any longer since he has additional help. Also you guys are completely clueless as to what Duncan does on offense, youre basing this whole notion that Dirk is a waaaay better offensive player on points per game and nothing more...perhaps its cause you guys have never had a real post prescence but having a good post player opens things up for everyone else. How do you think the Spurs operated prior to Parker and Ginobili developing? Throw it into Tim, let him go to work and either score or draw double teams to open it up for one of the many spot up shooters. Duncan still demands double teams as well, not as many as back in the day which has alot to do with having better players around him that teams are less willing to leave open, but he demands them nontheless. Dirk is the better offensive player obviously, I just think some of you are acting like Duncan is some pushoever on offense.

[Findog]

if you say that, then the spurs should be worlds better with a guy like dirk, because they have three guys who can create their own shot (parker, ginobili, jefferson). and some spot up shooters to go along with it (bonner, ginobili, finley). whereas, its just "arguable" that the mavs may be slightly better at certain times with duncan in the lineup. i think that pretty much settles the argument.

Presumably the Mavs would find somebody else to take Dampier's contract and turn that into another piece, and the Spurs would lose Duncan's ability to anchor their interior defense. Dirk has become much better on the defensive end, but you still don't want him defending the opposing team's best big and getting into foul trouble. You can do that with Timmy.

[Sportstudi]

Dirk has been an offensive monster these past 3/4 years, i'd take Dirks offense over Duncans. Defense is a different story, Dirk has improved his a lot since he came into the league but even now i'd give the nod to Duncan.

Overall i'd give Dirk a very slight edge, but you can't really go wrong with either of them.

+ 1 :toast

I agree completely. And Duncan aged slowly, but very gracefully. He is still a damn good player.

[Muser]

Thanks dude, I try to stay away from the "Manu > Dirk" homers and whatever other shit goes on.

[stretch]

Findog :toast

no suprises here


The rest of you, you guys are such damn homers...you guys criticize Dwight's offense as the reason he isnt elite and expect us to ignore Dirk being an average defender. Now you guys bring up Dirk's supporting cast as the reason he isnt beasting on the board yet ignore the reason Duncan only average 19 ppg. The developement of Parker and Manu, and now the addition of Jefferson, combined with a decrease of minutes has ALOT to do with that. Duncan even with his walker and 5 inch vertical still has the potential to average 22-23 ppg, it just isnt required any longer since he has additional help. Also you guys are completely clueless as to what Duncan does on offense, youre basing this whole notion that Dirk is a waaaay better offensive player on points scored and nothing...perhaps its cause you guys have never had a real post prescence but having a good post player opens things up for everyone else. How do you think the Spurs operated prior to Parker and Ginobili developing? Throw it into Tim, let him go to work and either score or draw double teams to open it up for one of the many spot up shooters. Duncan still demands double teams as well, not as many as back in the day which has alot to do with having better players around him that teams are less willing to leave open, but he demands them nontheless. Dirk is the better offensively player obviously, I just think some of you are acting like Duncan is some pushoever on offense.

ive never once said that dwight isnt elite just because hes not great at creating his own offense.

the rest of this post is just nonsense that pretty much agrees with what i said, only you are too much of a moron to actually read what i said. duncan is still good, and draws attention. but not the way dirk does, and isnt explosive the way dirk is, and doesnt cause mis-matches the way dirk does. never once did i say anything about duncan being a pushover on offense.

[Sportstudi]

Findog :toast

The rest of you, you guys are such damn homers...you guys criticize Dwight's offense as the reason he isnt on Dirk's level and expect us to ignore Dirk being an average defender. Now you guys bring up Dirk's supporting cast as the reason he isnt beasting on the boards yet ignore the reason Duncan only averages 19 ppg. The developement of Parker and Manu, and now the addition of Jefferson, combined with a decrease of minutes has ALOT to do with that. Duncan even with his walker and 5 inch vertical still has the potential to average 22-23 ppg, it just isnt required any longer since he has additional help. Also you guys are completely clueless as to what Duncan does on offense, youre basing this whole notion that Dirk is a waaaay better offensive player on points per game and nothing more...perhaps its cause you guys have never had a real post prescence but having a good post player opens things up for everyone else. How do you think the Spurs operated prior to Parker and Ginobili developing? Throw it into Tim, let him go to work and either score or draw double teams to open it up for one of the many spot up shooters. Duncan still demands double teams as well, not as many as back in the day which has alot to do with having better players around him that teams are less willing to leave open, but he demands them nontheless. Dirk is the better offensive player obviously, I just think some of you are acting like Duncan is some pushoever on offense.

I don't know if someone said anything like that, but it wasn't me.

[Muser]

Findog :toast

The rest of you, you guys are such damn homers...you guys criticize Dwight's offense as the reason he isnt on Dirk's level and expect us to ignore Dirk being an average defender.


Dude Dwight is not the defensive monster people make him out to be, his one on one D is terrible and his I.Q is even worse, 9 out of 10 blocks he gets he could easily palm it and bring it down or tap it to a teammate but instead he goes for the 3rd row of seats.

Nothing against Dwight, but the dude is so overrated.

[badfish22]

you guys criticize Dwight's offense as the reason he isnt on Dirk's level and expect us to ignore Dirk being an average defender. .

How many times a day are you gonna type this. I've already responded to your bullshit.

[Findog]

Dude Dwight is not the defensive monster people make him out to be, his one on one D is terrible and his I.Q is even worse, 9 out of 10 blocks he gets he could easily palm it and bring it down or tap it to a teammate but instead he goes for the 3rd row of seats.

Nothing against Dwight, but the dude is so overrated.

+ 1,000,000

He's on the cover of the latest Slam, and their conceit for this issue is "How to." For Dwight, it's "How to Block a Shot." He talks about timing and positioning, then no shit, not making it up, he says "I try to swat that shit into the stands to get me and my teammates pumped."

He's very good, but not great. The Magic went to the Finals last year because they were fucking stacked, not because he made some sort of leap.

[stretch]

Presumably the Mavs would find somebody else to take Dampier's contract and turn that into another piece, and the Spurs would lose Duncan's ability to anchor their interior defense. Dirk has become much better on the defensive end, but you still don't want him defending the opposing team's best big and getting into foul trouble. You can do that with Timmy.

and i dont deny it that he has a great impact on the defensive end. but after all the years that dirk had the mavs at the top of the league with guys like lazy-ass dampier or shawn bradley manning the middle, that rotating mcdyess and ratliff around at center, along with dirk periodically getting minutes at center when running some small ball wont be good enough? cant be any worse than what dirk has gotten previously. sure the spurs would suffer some defensively, but i feel they would improve quite a bit offensively in return and his presence would open the middle up even more for a guy like parker or ginobili to get inside, or for dejuan "wilt chamberlain" to work his 50 ppg potential.

[FkLA]

Dirk offense impacts the game a lot more than Dwights D. And I would say Dirks D is a little above average while Dwights offense is just bad, its based on athleticism alone.


You call this a response? There's a reason I didnt respond...its full of homerism.

Dirk's offense does impact the game more than Dwight's D, but alot more? Dwight is the DPOY, he holds down the paint and brings down boards like crazy so lets not act like what he does defensively is minimal compared to what Dirk does offensively. As far as Dwight offense goes...I agree that its based on athleticism, I agree that its stupid for people to automatically place him as a TOP 5 player considering his offensive limitations, I agree that he's somewhat overrated...but he averaged 20 ppg the past two seasons and is averaging 18 ppg this season, he draws double teams too. As limited as he is offensively I wouldnt call it bad.

[stretch]

You call this a response? There's a reason I didnt respond...its full of homerism.

Dirk's offense does impact the game more than Dwight's D, but alot more? Dwight is the DPOY, he holds down the paint and brings down boards like crazy so lets not act like what he does defensively is minimal compared to what Dirk does offensively. As far as Dwight offense goes...I agree that its based on athleticism, I agree that its stupid for people to automatically place him as a TOP 5 player considering his offensive limitations, I agree that he's somewhat overrated...but he averaged 20 ppg the past two seasons and is averaging 18 ppg this season, he draws double teams too. As limited as he is offensively I wouldnt call it bad.

lol, dirk > howard

[Goran Dragic]

+ 1,000,000

He's on the cover of the latest Slam, and their conceit for this issue is "How to." For Dwight, it's "How to Block a Shot." He talks about timing and positioning, then no shit, not making it up, he says "I try to swat that shit into the stands to get me and my teammates pumped."

He's very good, but not great. The Magic went to the Finals last year because they were fucking stacked, not because he made some sort of leap.


This. There are two types of shot blockers, the good defenders with good positioning and a high Bball IQ, or really overrated defenders blessed with a rare combination of size and athleticism. Players like Dwight and Amare actually get a good amount of their blocks due to bad positioning when their size and athleticism bail them out. Dwight is one of the most undeserving DPOY winners ever.

[Goran Dragic]

Dwight is the DPOY, he holds down the paint


You should look at the series Pau Gasol had against Orlando before saying Dwight holds down the paint.

[FkLA]

and i dont deny it that he has a great impact on the defensive end. but after all the years that dirk had the mavs at the top of the league with guys like lazy-ass dampier or shawn bradley manning the middle, that rotating mcdyess and ratliff around at center, along with dirk periodically getting minutes at center when running some small ball wont be good enough? cant be any worse than what dirk has gotten previously. sure the spurs would suffer some defensively, but i feel they would improve quite a bit offensively in return and his presence would open the middle up even more for a guy like parker or ginobili to get inside, or for dejuan "wilt chamberlain" to work his 50 ppg potential.

So basically the Spurs would gain more offensively than they'd be losing defensively? Maybe its just me, but I think the gap between Dirk and Tim offensively is smaller tha the gap between them defensively.

Also Ratliff is a spot player at this point in his career, a couple minutes per game with some DNPs...imagine Bonner alongside Dirk though, or 6-6 Blair. Not good my friend not good.

[FkLA]

lol, dirk > howard

dirk>dwight for sure

i never suggested otherwise.

[Indazone]

He should still follow Kobe's example. Go learn the great post up moves from Hakeem. If Dirk does that he'd be unstoppable from both inside and out.

[stretch]

So basically the Spurs would gain more offensively than they'd be losing defensively? Maybe its just me, but I think the gap between Dirk and Tim offensively is smaller tha the gap between them defensively.

Also Ratliff is a spot player at this point in his career, a couple minutes per game with some DNPs...imagine Bonner alongside Dirk though, or 6-6 Blair. Not good my friend not good.

individual skills and floor presence are two completely different things. yes, individually they arent worlds apart, but there is no denying that dirks floor presence these days is much greater than timmys is. kinda like kidd vs. iverson. iverson without question is a far more talented player than kidd could ever be. but kidd has had far greater floor presence through his career down to this day than AI has ever had. a mis-match nightmare like dirk goes a lot farther than just how many more points he scores than timmy does.

[stretch]

dirk>dwight for sure

i never suggested otherwise.

then why are you whining like a little faggot about it? you tried bringing up something as if we have a double standard, but you clearly were proven to not know what the hell you are talking about and your comparison of dirk and howard to dirk and timmy is retarded at best

[mavs>spurs2]

people don't seem to understand that how "good" a basketball player is totally determined by the positive or negative impact a player has on the basketball court. ALOT, and i mean ALOT, of variables go into that. Leadership, offense, defense, intangibles, game changing steals and energy plays, clutch defensive plays, etc. Kind of off topic, but I just don't understand why Scottie Pippen is so underrated, the man is quite easily a top 15 or 20 player of all time but people don't give him any consideration because he wasn't quite the offensive machine that Kobe or MJ is. His defense and intangibles more than make up for having a little less offensive game than a guy like Kobe. Last I checked, when Jordan retired and went to baseball, he led a totally depleted bulls team to a 55-27 record, and one game away from the conference finals. That team was very similar in talent to those Laker teams that Kobe couldn't even get out of the first round, if not even worse off. Discuss that

[mavsfan1000]

people don't seem to understand that how "good" a basketball player is totally determined by the positive or negative impact a player has on the basketball court. ALOT, and i mean ALOT, of variables go into that. Leadership, offense, defense, intangibles, game changing steals and energy plays, clutch defensive plays, etc. Kind of off topic, but I just don't understand why Scottie Pippen is so underrated, the man is quite easily a top 15 or 20 player of all time but people don't give him any consideration because he wasn't quite the offensive machine that Kobe or MJ is. His defense and intangibles more than make up for having a little less offensive game than a guy like Kobe. Last I checked, when Jordan retired and went to baseball, he led a totally depleted bulls team to a 55-27 record, and one game away from the conference finals. That team was very similar in talent to those Laker teams that Kobe couldn't even get out of the first round, if not even worse off. Discuss that
That was Pippen's best year. Grant was also very good that year. Don't forget they picked up Kukoc that year. When they got Jordan back and fit, they went 72-10.

[mavs>spurs2]

That was Pippen's best year. Grant was also very good that year. Don't forget they picked up Kukoc that year. When they got Jordan back and fit, they went 72-10.

Kukoc was a 10.9 ppg, 43% fg scorer off the bench that year. I'll give you grant, but Kobe also had Lamar. The rest was all Pippen. That's just fucking impressive to me

[stretch]

people don't seem to understand that how "good" a basketball player is totally determined by the positive or negative impact a player has on the basketball court. ALOT, and i mean ALOT, of variables go into that. Leadership, offense, defense, intangibles, game changing steals and energy plays, clutch defensive plays, etc. Kind of off topic, but I just don't understand why Scottie Pippen is so underrated, the man is quite easily a top 15 or 20 player of all time but people don't give him any consideration because he wasn't quite the offensive machine that Kobe or MJ is. His defense and intangibles more than make up for having a little less offensive game than a guy like Kobe. Last I checked, when Jordan retired and went to baseball, he led a totally depleted bulls team to a 55-27 record, and one game away from the conference finals. That team was very similar in talent to those Laker teams that Kobe couldn't even get out of the first round, if not even worse off. Discuss that

meh, lets be honest here, that was a fairly weak period of basketball right there. it was after a period of loaded teams in their primes like LA, Portland, Phoenix, Detroit, etc... and right before a period of loaded teams in their primes like Utah, Seattle, New York, etc...

it was when houston had a repeat, and those houston teams were among some of the weakest champions in NBA history, and everyone except a few houston fans knows it. it was weak couple of years of basketball.

now dont get me wrong, pippen played very well and did a good job, but the guy clearly was not a #1 type of guy. hes not the kind of guy that you could just put the ball in his hands and expect him to go out there and win the game for your team, the way true #1 guys like jordan, kobe, duncan, bird, etc... could do. he was the ultimate #2 guy.

[stretch]

That was Pippen's best year. Grant was also very good that year. Don't forget they picked up Kukoc that year. When they got Jordan back and fit, they went 72-10.

figures you would know all these details, bullfan

[Culburn369]

people don't seem to understand that how "good" a basketball player is totally determined by the positive or negative impact a player has on the basketball court. ALOT, and i mean ALOT, of variables go into that. Leadership, offense, defense, intangibles, game changing steals and energy plays, clutch defensive plays, etc. Kind of off topic, but I just don't understand why Scottie Pippen is so underrated, the man is quite easily a top 15 or 20 player of all time but people don't give him any consideration because he wasn't quite the offensive machine that Kobe or MJ is. His defense and intangibles more than make up for having a little less offensive game than a guy like Kobe. Last I checked, when Jordan retired and went to baseball, he led a totally depleted bulls team to a 55-27 record, and one game away from the conference finals. That team was very similar in talent to those Laker teams that Kobe couldn't even get out of the first round, if not even worse off. Discuss that

He couldn't ring/sans Jordan. & he quit.

& he let Kobe pull his shorts down in the 2000 Playoffs.

[mavs>spurs2]

He couldn't ring/sans Jordan. & he quit.

& he let Kobe pull his shorts down in the 2000 Playoffs.

Please, he was an old man by then, just like you

[Culburn369]

Please, he was an old man by then, just like you

Moo-moo, buck-a-roo.

[mavsfan1000]

figures you would know all these details, bullfan
They were fun to watch I admit that. I like Jordan so much more than Kobe. Kobe irritates me. And are you old enough to remember the Jordan years? They are like the Beatles of the 90's. They made a lot of people bandwagon.

[Greg Oden]

They were fun to watch I admit that. I like Jordan so much more than Kobe. Kobe irritates me. And are you old enough to remember the Jordan years? They are like the Beatles of the 90's. They made a lot of people bandwagon.

That's the dumbest analogy I've ever heard, and you should kill yourself immediately.

[mavsfan1000]

That's the dumbest analogy I've ever heard, and you should kill yourself immediately.
Fuck you asshole. Don't like my analogy. Too bad. That bulls team brings back good memories for me in the 90's. I feel sorry for those who have to root for one team forever no matter how bad they are.

[redzero]

The Hornets contained the Diggler yet again. He's not that impressive when he faces David Best!

[namlook]

He also had a broken finger. Why doesn't he just sit out 3 weeks and let it heal?

You saw tonight why Kobe doesn't sit out with the broken finger.

42 pts on 15-26 shooting

The guy is a monster to play like that with a broken finger.

[Will Hunting]

That was Pippen's best year. Grant was also very good that year. Don't forget they picked up Kukoc that year. When they got Jordan back and fit, they went 72-10.


In the 1994-1995 season, Pippen led his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks AND steals, and they were a good team before MJ came back. Pippen is indeed one of the most underrated players of all time.

[Culburn369]

....but, he couldn't ring/sans Jordan, and he quit.

[Findog]

The Hornets contained the Diggler yet again. He's not that impressive when he faces David Best!

And they lost.

“Obviously we had a lot of attention on Dirk; you might say we paid too much attention to him,” Hornets star Chris Paul said.

Thanks for playing.

[stretch]

You saw tonight why Kobe doesn't sit out with the broken finger.

42 pts on 15-26 shooting

The guy is a monster to play like that with a broken finger.

no, what you saw is that his finger isnt broken. just another athlete exaggerating their injuries to make themselves look greater

[badfish22]

The Hornets contained the Diggler yet again. He's not that impressive when he faces David Best!

You contained Dirk, but let JJ Burrito go ape shit and score a career high :lmao
Thats failure.

[MavDynasty]

Dirk mothafuckin' Nowitzki taking a fat shit on the Thunder

[stretch]

dirks a beast

[mavsfan1000]

Dirk was an animal tonight. Taking over when everyone else on the mavs was struggling. Terry has been horrible lately. Why was Marion sitting at the end of the game again?

[stretch]

shut up bullfan

[mavsfan1000]

shut up bullfan
Why do I have to deal with this bullshit still? I'm a mavs fan. Been one since 2002. Don't plan on leaving them. They are my team. :toast

[DPG21920]

Dirk is beasting on the league.

[mavs>spurs2]

And dpg, that's why you're alright in my book. Good luck to you too

[DPG21920]

Why do I have to deal with this bullshit still? I'm a mavs fan. Been one since 2002. Don't plan on leaving them. They are my team. :toast

Freudian slip? :lol

[Texas Chili Dog]

As an opponent, when you see this you know you just got Dirk'd.


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2FGYI0059163336.jpg&w=465&h=589

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2FGYI0059163322.jpg&w=715&h=486

[badfish22]

As an opponent, when you see this you know you just got Dirk'd.


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=media%2Fgettyphoto%2FGYI0059163336.jpg&w=465&h=589



:lmao he looks Asian here

[Findog]

“I know you guys talk about Dirk’s scoring, but I think it’s his defense that has got him going. … People are always going to talk about his offense, but I think right now his defense I think has been the best that I’ve ever seen,” Dallas point guard Jason Kidd said.

[badfish22]

The thing being overlooked in this season of Dirk is the play of JKidd.
Hes play is not at Dirks level, but its closer than people think.