Defensive Win Shares

[Findog]

League Leaders as of 12/13/09

1. Gerald Wallace 2.1
2. Rajon Rondo 1.8
3. Dwight Howard 1.6
4. Kobe Bryant 1.6
5. Kevin Garnett 1.6
6. Mystery Player 1.6
7. Marcus Camby 1.5
8. Lamar Odom 1.5
9. Paul Pierce 1.4
10. Kendrick Perkins 1.4

Who are you #6?

[KidCongo]

LeBron ended up 2nd to Dwight Howard last year and he's not even in the top 10. He's gotta be more of a leader on the defensive end like last year.

[noob cake]

Flawed list is flawed. I don't see

1. Chuck Hayes 9.2

[Findog]

Nobody wants to guess who #6 is.

[DPG21920]

Dirk...Dirk.....Dirk

[Findog]

We have a winner

[ginobili's bald spot]

It was obvious the answer was Dirk "Mutumbo" Nowtizki. My second guess was going to be JJ Barea. :lol

[Allanon]

After years of being a shitty defender, Dirk nowadays is a good defender at his position.

[monosylab1k]

Where's Pau Gasol? Laker fan was adamant that Gasol's defense was light years ahead of Dirk's.

[Allanon]

League Leaders as of 12/13/09
8. Lamar Odom 1.5


This is why Lamar's my favorite Laker, he's the most consistent Laker defender.

Kobe is a beastly defender...on important possessions. Ron Artest is beastly against elite guys. Pau's only a slightly above average defender and Bynum's a streaky defender...sometimes great, sometimes shitty.

Lamar is a great man and team help defender and rebounder EVERY night. In clutch situations, you want Lamar as a defender.

Clutch or consistent Offense? Not so much. :lol

Defensive Rating

1. Rasheed Wallace-BOS 95.2
2. Gerald Wallace-CHA 96.0
3. Kendrick Perkins-BOS 96.3
4. Kevin Garnett-BOS 96.5
5. Rajon Rondo-BOS 96.5
6. Greg Oden-POR 96.9
7. Lamar Odom-LAL 96.9
8. Marcus Camby-LAC 97.1
9. Erick Dampier-DAL 98.0
10. Dwight Howard-ORL 98.0

[mystargtr34]

This isnt the same formula that turned Jason Kidd into the second best player in the league?

[Findog]

This isnt the same formula that turned Jason Kidd into the second best player in the league?

Nope.

[mystargtr34]

But seriously, Dirk has always been an underrated defender. Tough, back to the basket players have always given him trouble - but he has consistenly been around 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks for about 10 years now, and he moves his feet well and has great size and decent length.

[jacobdrj]

What is a defensive win share?

[Findog]

What is a defensive win share?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

[jacobdrj]

Interesting, but hardly a practical means of judging defensive talent.

[Findog]

Interesting, but hardly a practical means of judging defensive talent.

Everybody on that list is a good defender, including Dirk. It's not the be-all, end-all, but it's nice to see some metrics capture Dirk's improvement on the defensive end.

[jacobdrj]

I think it is interesting to see a stat that places emphasis on wins in associations with defensive breakdown, but the list seems to be a bit off based on observation.

I agree that Dirk is a better defender than he is given credit for, and his team does win a lot, and since Avery, and now Ricky C, his team defends AND wins, but I can't call Dirk anything but an average to above average defender, based on observation, nor some of the other names on that list. A lot of that defensive advantage comes from truly great defensive team mates, in this case, Marion comes to mind.

[mavs>spurs2]

Da bud smokin ho could be on this list if he wanted to. He has all the tools, (height, athleticism, long wingspan) but sometime around 2005 or 2006 he decided he didn't want to be an all around player who did alot of the dirty work anymore. He thinks he's a first option and offensive BEAST

[ElNono]

Where's Tim Duncan in that list... Gerald Wallace is a good defender now?
Where's Artest, Battier, Ariza????

I'll give you this: Its hard to gauge defensive players with stats.

[LnGrrrR]

Anyone notice that four of those top ten are Celtics players?

[mavs>spurs2]

Where's Tim Duncan in that list...

he's old


Gerald Wallace is a good defender now?

yes


Where's Artest, Battier, Ariza????

Battier is a good defender but Ron has slipped alot from his prime defensively, and Ariza is just no


I'll give you this: Its hard to gauge defensive players with stats.

yeah, but i wouldn't totally dismiss them either

[FkLA]

Matt Bonner led the Spurs in +/- last year, Im pretty sure his rating was comparable to some of the best players in the league...point being there are flaws to every system and while the best guys usually are near the top there is always someone that has no business being up there.

Dirk is an average defender, not atrocious but definitely not in the same company as some of the guys up there.

[ElNono]

he's old

Sure, but he's still averaging about the same as the last 5 years in less minutes actually.


Battier is a good defender but Ron has slipped alot from his prime defensively, and Ariza is just no

Uh? Ron is not as quick as in years past, but he's still a heck of a defender. And Ariza is just as good or better.


yeah, but i wouldn't totally dismiss them either

Dismiss what? I'm not even sure what this 'stat' is supposed to highligth...

[hitmanyr2k]

League Leaders as of 12/13/09

1. Gerald Wallace 2.1
2. Rajon Rondo 1.8
3. Dwight Howard 1.6
4. Kobe Bryant 1.6
5. Kevin Garnett 1.6
6. Dirk 1.6
7. Marcus Camby 1.5
8. Lamar Odom 1.5
9. Paul Pierce 1.4
10. Kendrick Perkins 1.4


The guys in bold are most likely in their positions because of the defensive talent surrounding them making them look better. When you get some bigs in the paint or some defensive minded players around you it's going to have a good effect on your ratings. In Kobe and Lamar's case having two bigs in the paint and Artest on the team makes them look much better all of a sudden when they were pretty much mediocre in past seasons. Having Kendrick Perkins and Garnett anchoring the middle also makes Pierce and Rondo look a lot better as well.

[mavs>spurs2]

The guys in bold are most likely in their positions because of the defensive talent surrounding them making them look better. When you get some bigs in the paint or some defensive minded players around you it's going to have a good effect on your ratings. In Kobe and Lamar's case having two bigs in the paint and Artest on the team makes them look much better all of a sudden when they were pretty much mediocre in past seasons. Having Kendrick Perkins and Garnett anchoring the middle also makes Pierce and Rondo look a lot better as well.

nice mix in your sig brah. i really enjoyed watching that

[LnGrrrR]

Pierce and Rondo can both be good defenders, though Pierce was much better in the championship year.

Rondo is off and on.

[hitmanyr2k]

nice mix in your sig brah. i really enjoyed watching that

Thank you...he's one of the best to ever do it.

[hitmanyr2k]

Duncan has already made his mark on the Defensive win shares list. He's in the Top 10 all-time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dws_career.html