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mystargtr34
12-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Kobe Bryant fans, stat geeks and referee conspiracy theorists -- everyone got what they wanted from last night's Lakers win over the Bucks.

Kobe Bryant fans
That's what he does, right? That game-winner over Charlie Bell is precisely the reason that Kobe Bryant wins all kinds of surveys as most feared player in the NBA.

He knows who's going to be defending him. He knows where he wants to get on the court. He knows what he wants to do when he gets there. He knows how to account for his injured finger. He has practiced everything.

Other players are bigger and stronger. But nobody knows more, prepares better or better embodies sheer professionalism. Any success he has is well deserved.

Think back through his career. How many times have you seen him hit game-winners? 30? 40? A thousand? We can all remember plenty of them. And that's why he has the best selling jersey in the world.

Last night's shot gave Kobe Bryant fans precisely the evidence they need to prove, yet again, that this guy is the absolute best.

Who would question them?

Stat geeks
It's not as fun a way to see the NBA, but it's real.

Every which way people slice and dice crunch time numbers -- field goal percentage, plus/minus, you name it -- Bryant is not the NBA's best in crunch time. A glance at last year's crunch time numbers on 82games.com makes clear Bryant shoots more than anyone else in the NBA in crunch time, but is he more skilled at making those shots? That's what we're trying to judge, right? In crunch time field goal percentage, last season Bryant finished 92nd in the League, right behind Michael Beasley. Others ahead of him include Kevin Garnett, both Gasols, Zach Randolph, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Terry, Jameer Nelson, Tim Duncan, Amare Stoudemire, Eric Gordon, Brandon Roy, Andre Iguodala, Jason Kidd, Ben Gordon, and Chris Bosh.

You can remember Bryant hitting all those clutch baskets, stat geeks say. But you're forgetting all the misses. (And if you are learning about Bryant from highlights, then you're not even seeing most misses.)

82games defines crunch time as the last five minutes of the fourth quarter, and all of overtimes, when neither team is leading by more than five points. In that period last night, Bryant showed some of the mixed bag of efficiency that the stats show, by turning the ball over, making a shot, missing three straight, and then closing the game in style. He ended fourth quarter Laker plays as follows:

* 2:40 turnover
* 2:11 made jumper
* 1:46 missed jumper
* 0:31 assist
* 0:02 missed jumper


In overtime:

* 1:34 missed 3
* 1:17 made jumper
* 0:48 made layup + free throw
* 0:00 made jumper


Bryant wound up four of seven in crunch time -- which is a healthy 57% from the floor. That's above average crunch time shooting for him, but not as good as those with the the NBA's best percentages. So he had a good night, compared to the 46% crunch time percentage from last year.

But one less make would have put him at 50%, and did you hear the commentary with the highlights above?

Conspiracy theorists
The Lakers won by one point in overtime. They got three points in the final minute on a play that appeared to most observers to feature both a Bryant charge and a travel, when he made himself into a bowling ball and Andrew Bogut into a bowling pin.

The NBA says there are no such things as superstar calls, but was anybody surprised by that? Can you find examples of Dwyane Wade, LeBron James or Kobe Bryant getting whistled for offensive fouls with the ball on the way to the hoop with the game on the line? This is not new. If it happens at all, it happens very little. It's evident superstars operate with a certain impunity. You could argue it's a reason to have a superstar -- so you don't have to worry much about offensive fouls with the game on the line.

Even on the next play, Bryant's game-winner, he gathered the ball, and then hopped noticeably with both feet before pivoting.

It's not alarming or even all that disappointing to me. The game is hard to referee in real time, and everyone wants to see plays like the one above.

And in a way, wasn't last night's game perfect? Kobe Bryant fans, stat geeks, conspiracy theorists ... Just about everyone got what they wanted.

My main thought is: Kobe Bryant probably has the best body control, footwork and sheer skill of any NBA player. If the game were consistently called by the book, he'd adjust faster than anybody, his hard work would be rewarded, and there'd be a new facet of his game: You could show it to

high-school players and tell them to copy the same moves.

Not sure if this has been posted yet.

1200 comments :lol

DPG21920
12-17-2009, 09:13 PM
One word to describe Kobe: Sick.

It is a double entendre

Culburn369
12-17-2009, 09:22 PM
Fueled by hate and vengeance is ideally suited to his talent.

Medvedenko
12-17-2009, 09:45 PM
Love it...keep the hate brewing...it doesn't matter and it didn't matter in 2001 and it won't matter in 2010. He's been the best since then and will continue to dominate next year.

ezau
12-17-2009, 09:46 PM
Fueled by hate and vengeance against whom? He raped the white bitch in his own volition. When you're playing the Lakers, watch out---for the refs

dude1394
12-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Must be racist hate. Couldn't be that most saw a walk and a charge that wasn't called because of.....well.....because the nba refs suck.

Culburn369
12-17-2009, 10:03 PM
Fueled by hate and vengeance against whom? He raped the white bitch in his own volition. When you're playing the Lakers, watch out---for the refs

Mostly (hate) himself. He's wreaking (vengeance) for his recklessness and "bad luck?" He'd done (it) probably a thousand times or more thru the years, but, this time his luck ran out. Before that he was near royalty. He eschewed the black race like the plague. Then at his most vulnerable he had to go there, hat-in-hand, to place the race card in the whirlwind.

The Lear on a tarmac (to Italy), or, hold still and risk 20-to-life? That'll a change a man regardless the outcome. I wonder what his father advised him?

He figured time outside the walls would be enough. Uh, uh.
He figured ringin'/sans Daddy would be enough. Uh, uh.

There is nothing in front of Bryant now. It's all in back of him.

mystargtr34
12-17-2009, 10:23 PM
Love it...keep the hate brewing...it doesn't matter and it didn't matter in 2001 and it won't matter in 2010. He's been the best since then and will continue to dominate next year.

Best at what?

UrAphag
12-17-2009, 10:48 PM
When it's all said and done, everyone will be bitching about how kobe raped their team on his way to his 5th title

JamStone
12-17-2009, 11:16 PM
This is Kobe in a nutshell:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/joejam414/Signature%20pictures/KB1110-1.jpg

DPG21920
12-17-2009, 11:25 PM
This is Kobe in a nutshell:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/joejam414/Signature%20pictures/KB1110-1.jpg

:lol I was waiting for that. That or the Austin Powers clip.

MiamiHeat
12-17-2009, 11:33 PM
When it's all said and done, everyone will be bitching about how kobe raped their team on his way to his 5th title

when exactly is the last time he raped any good team?

lucky 4th quarter shots don't count

show me complete game dominance.

you won't find many. he is overrated

cobbler
12-17-2009, 11:56 PM
when exactly is the last time he raped any good team?

lucky 4th quarter shots don't count

show me complete game dominance.

you won't find many. he is overrated

Your obsession with Kobe is duly noted and noted and noted and noted AD NAUSEUM. :bang

pawe
12-18-2009, 12:02 AM
Overrated selfish arrogant prick who scores 35 points on 89459783456 shots.

duhoh
12-18-2009, 12:08 AM
This is Kobe in a nutshell:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/joejam414/Signature%20pictures/KB1110-1.jpg

:lol love it

KSeal
12-18-2009, 12:15 AM
:lol This is awesome. Kobe hits another game winner and the haters get all butthurt over it.

mystargtr34
12-18-2009, 12:17 AM
This is Kobe in a nutshell:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/joejam414/Signature%20pictures/KB1110-1.jpg

:lol

Allanon
12-18-2009, 08:50 AM
Kobe's brilliance is lost on the haters of this generation much like most of the all time Greats.

The tide started turning in favor of Kobe with his 4th ring; the roar will be deafening when he captures his 10th.

TheManFromAcme
12-18-2009, 09:01 AM
when exactly is the last time he raped any good team?

lucky 4th quarter shots don't count

show me complete game dominance.

you won't find many. he is overrated

MiamiHeat,

Your a pretty smart guy and don't question your b-ball intel but why all the hate for the Kobster? It's known among all sports enthusiasts that the more you hate the more it shines light on hidden love-hate for a person in this specific case Kobe. Forget dominant. You can't argue Kobe's clutchness. You have to give him at least that. Who cares if he doesn't allegedly dominate. How many times in his career has he won games just like he did with the bucks? The guy is feared for that very reason. He's not a 90% last shot game winning kind of guy but surely you have to see why he is feared.

Come on. I am sure you like the game of b-ball. Give the guy his just-due and leave it at that. Wade is a hell of a player just as well and if I am not mistaken has had his share of last minute heroics.

He will go down as one of the greatest. That much can be said about Kobe.

Culburn369
12-18-2009, 09:37 AM
It's known among all sports enthusiasts that the more you hate the more it shines light on hidden love-hate for a person in this specific case Kobe.

& that goes for outside of sports, too, like relationships & marriage. There is a very fine line twixt hate & love.

Good point, Acme.

mystargtr34
12-18-2009, 09:42 PM
I don't know who the best crunch time player is in the NBA. Before handing out an award like that, I'd dig into all kinds of stuff, like:

* How many big points a player had made in key moments of games.
* How many big turnovers or misses a player had made in the same setting.
* Points per possession would matter. If you give it to player X, how many points does your team tend to end the play with? (Don't want to punish a double-teamed guy for passing to an open teammate under the hoop. You want him to do that! Also, getting to the line, and hitting 3s matter.)
* I'd give bonus points for buzzer beaters, especially those released when the shooter's team is trailing. That's scary pressure, right?
* I'd give bonus points for other kinds of amazing plays, like steals, blocks, assists and the like.
* I'd require many clutch shots. A few lucky makes don't matter. (Bill Wennington never missed with Michael Jordan was on the floor, right?)


All that research would no doubt give you a short list of candidates. Then I'd go to the video, and actually watch all those clutch plays. Take notes, the whole deal. Was a certain play really amazing? Or, alternately, did the player in question miss a wide open teammate? I'd weigh all that kind of stuff.

Then, I suspect we'd have a pretty good idea which player or players deserved to be called the best clutch performers in the NBA.

The test would be: If your team was down one with ten seconds left, and you could give the ball to anyone to make you a basket, with your life hanging in the balance, whom would you pick?

Forget the guy who has the best highlights, or makes the toughest shots. You'd pick the guy with the greatest likelihood of getting your team points, however he gets them.

This research has not been done.

Among Laker fans, there's a different measure. It's not that we ought to figure out who's the best in crunch time. It's that Kobe Bryant is the best, and evidence to that effect need not be provided.

That's fine. I'm a fan too. I respect that position, believe it or not. Keep believing. You get to use your criteria to determine your convictions.

But don't expect me to come along just 'cause. You may not need evidence. But I do.

Man, you wouldn't believe the anger in response to my post yesterday about Kobe Bryant in crunch time.

But look at this with me: A super-quick look at who hits big shots reveals that Bryant is consistently someone who takes more shots than anyone, but misses a lot.

He's the world champion of hitting tough shots. He's the world champion of making highlights with the game on the line. But if he's the most likely to get you points, I have seen no evidence of it.

I'm not saying he isn't the best crunch time performer. Don't know who is. Haven't done the research. Maybe it's him. But I am saying that that little quick bit research I have seen on the topic sure makes me say hmm ...

One shows field goal percentage in the final five minutes of close games. Bryant's barely in the top 100. Another shows makes and misses in the final 24 seconds of close games. Since 2002-2003, LeBron James has hit more shots in the final 24 seconds of one-possession games than Bryant. But he has taken 22 fewer shots!

Remember, I'm choosing someone to save my life with one make. Those 22 extra misses hurt.

Kobe Bryant is in a lot of highlights making big shots because he takes a hell of a lot of them. If you want highlights, cool. That's how you get them.

But if you want the most effective player with the game on the line, you sure wouldn't want to edit out those misses like they do on those YouTube highlight reels. If I'm going to choose somebody to score, with my life on the line, I'm going to count the misses too.

UPDATE: Here's yet another investigation of crunch time scoring, from NBA.com's John Schuhmann, which tells a similar story -- Bryant's true shooting percentage (includes free throws and 3-pointers) ranks him 38th in the NBA in final five minutes of close games. And, interestingly, he's not one of those players who scores better in crunch time than he does the rest of the game. There are players like that, but he's not one of them. A deeper examination, including one possession games in the final minute. Again, Bryant is not among the leaders.

MiamiHeat
12-18-2009, 09:56 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent, excellent post.

It's not news to me, though.

Allanon
12-18-2009, 11:27 PM
Kobe has the most buzzer beaters of any active player. There is nobody even remotely close.

Kobe has more buzzer beaters than Michael Jordan himself...and Kobe has another good 5 years left to add to his total.

This is why 90% of GM's voted Kobe as the one they'd give the last shot to with the game on the line.

Banzai
12-18-2009, 11:53 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent, excellent post.

It's not news to me, though.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/3/santaeater.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=4379)

lefty
12-19-2009, 12:07 AM
Kobe Bryant has his nuts in a shell?

Culburn369
12-19-2009, 12:09 AM
Don't start tonite, Lefty, we're in a festive, jovial mood and we don't need your happy horseshit ruining it. Go have some Bosco.

lefty
12-19-2009, 12:11 AM
Don't start tonite, Lefty, we're in a festive, jovial mood and we don't need your happy horseshit ruining it. Go have some Bosco.
:lmao

Culburn369
12-19-2009, 12:12 AM
:lol

lefty
12-19-2009, 12:15 AM
This is Kobe in a nutshell:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc11/joejam414/Signature%20pictures/KB1110-1.jpg
Pfffft... :lol

Banzai
12-19-2009, 12:18 AM
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/balls8ax.jpg (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/balls8ax.jpg)
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/2600.jpg (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10071/2600.jpg)

Venti Quattro
12-19-2009, 12:24 AM
http://imgur.com/E1zuv.gif

mystargtr34
12-19-2009, 12:28 AM
http://imgur.com/E1zuv.gif

:lmao

Allanon
12-19-2009, 12:39 AM
Boy, Miami Heat is active...:lmao

There's not much to debate about it. This is why the stat geeks that write these articles come up with complex forumlas on why Kobe isn't clutch.

But the simplest stat requiring just basic arithmetic is always left out...very mysterious eh?

Why leave out such easy math?

Because Kobe has almost double the closest active NBA player and more game winners (and counting) than the great Michael Jordan himself... and that's just plain blasphemy. :lol

LakasRool4eva
12-19-2009, 12:43 AM
loling @ the hataz. keep comin up with ways to hate on Kobe & he'll keep winnin 'ships........

Venti Quattro
12-19-2009, 12:48 AM
loling @ the hataz. keep comin up with ways to hate on Kobe & he'll keep winnin 'ships........

http://imgur.com/dQy1g.gif

duhoh
12-20-2009, 02:15 AM
http://imgur.com/E1zuv.gif

:lmao

oh man, nice one :tu