Gasol not Kobe is the real MVP of the Lakers

[ChrisRichards]

dont shoot the messenger. thanks




Nobody can do what Kobe Bryant can do. With the game on the line, with one last shot to take to win it all, there is nobody in the NBA you want to take that shot more than Kobe. He proved it again last night in Milwaukee, where Kobe Bryant scored the last of his 39 points on a picture-perfect fade away as time expired to give the Lakers the win.
But look at the box score, and you see Pau Gasol with 26 points, 22 rebounds and four blocked shots. He was the Lakers best player on the court in Wisconsin.
Kobe Bryant doesn’t get the chance to hit the game winner without Gasol. Since Gasol returned to the lineup, the Lakers have lost just one game. Who is the team’s MVP last night — the guy with the game winner but some struggles on the night, or the guy who kept the Lakers in it on an off night for everyone else?
That is true a lot of nights, especially recently, when Gasol has stepped up to fill in what the Lakers have been missing. Lately that has been rebounding, as Andrew Bynum has stopped grabbing boards (he had just three against the Bucks all game, although there were a variety of reasons).
In his last four games, Pau Gasol is averaging 19.5 rebounds per game, which gives him an average of 12.7 per game this season. That would tie Gasol with Dwight Howard, the best center in the game today and a rebounding machine (Gasol is not on the official NBA stats page yet because of how many games he missed to start the season). Gasol has been that good.
The fact of the matter is, when the offense runs through Gasol it runs more smoothly — Gasol was tied with high four assists Wednesday. Teammates know things are better when Gasol gets the ball, Kobe will gladly talk about it. Which makes it all the more odd that a couple times a year Gasol has to beg for more touches through the media, as he did after Tuesday night’s game in Chicago. But it works — he got 15 shots against the Bucks.
And it was Gasol’s play that kept the game close, kept the Lakers in it. The Lakers as a team look tired Wednesday, except for Gasol who looked like he had just pounded a case of Red Bull. He was everywhere. He kept the Lakers in the game.
Kobe would not have been able to hit the dramatic game winner without Gasol. So who does that make the team’s MVP?
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/So-Far-Gasol-Is-The-Lakers-MVP-79550417.html

[Ghazi]

If you run a simulation, the Lakers without Kobe are better than the Lakers without Gasol... Kobe is worth more wins over the course of a season and therefore the more valuable player, as is expected since he is the indisputably better player.

[JamStone]

Fair point to an extent. Same logic will tell you that the Miami Heat only win a title in 2006 because of Shaq, not Wade. Wade was the main scorer, but the Heat weren't going to win anything without Shaq's presence. Can say the same thing about Tony Parker's Finals MVP in 2007. He can't win that without Duncan.

But, I do agree with the sentiment about Gasol to a certain degree, in that without Gasol, the Lakers are not title contenders. However, they aren't without Kobe either.

[resistanze]

If you run a simulation, the Lakers without Kobe are better than the Lakers without Gasol... Kobe is worth more wins over the course of a season and therefore the more valuable player, as is expected since he is the indisputably better player.

I'm confused. Lakers without Kobe are better than without Gasol, but Kobe is more valuable?

[Allanon]

0 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins in 6 seasons prior to Kobe.
30 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins after 1.5 seasons with Kobe

Gasol's reputation before Kobe - Gasoft
Gasol's reputation with Kobe - articles about the "true" MVP of the Lakers

[anonoftheinternets]

different roles ... gasol is sacrificing more..but kobe is the better player ... lakers need both .. else they suck .. jus like other teams in the nba .. stupid thread...

[21_Blessings]

But, I do agree with the sentiment about Gasol to a certain degree, in that without Gasol, the Lakers are not title contenders..

Horseshit. They would still be the absolute favorites to come out of the West.

[Allanon]

Horseshit. They would still be the absolute favorites to come out of the West.

#1 seed in the West - Lakers prior to Bynum getting injured and the Lakers traded for Pau.

8-3 = 70%+ winning percent ... Lakers this year without Pau

14 & 10 - Marc Gasol's stats

[Culburn369]

Pau completes Bryant. And you know what else? Bryant knows it. And you what else? He can live with it.

[21_Blessings]

different roles ... gasol is sacrificing more..

Gasol is sacrificing, what exactly? Pau has already proven he couldn't do jack shit as the number 1 option. He's a much better player next to a guy like Kobe, that draws 2-3 defenders almost every possession.


but kobe is the better player ... lakers need both .. else they suck .. jus like other teams in the nba .. stupid thread...

Lakers = best team in the West without Gasol.

[chubster]

He was an all star before and a very versatile player when in Memphis. As a #1 option he was the main focus of the other team's defense so they double and triple him. Even then he was producing around 19 points and 8 rebounds while swatting 2 blocks per game. A true jack of all trades of a big man.

Now imagine a situation where he no longer sees triple team ever again and only the occasional double team (when he gets the ball in the deep position) because the other team is worried about someone else getting hot from the perimeter. I think what he said to a Spanish magazine about how he felt when traded to the Lakers pretty much summed up his current situation:

"This is the day of wine and roses."

[BRHornet45]

0 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins in 6 seasons prior to Kobe.
30 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins after 1.5 seasons with Kobe

Gasol's reputation before Kobe - Gasoft
Gasol's reputation with Kobe - articles about the "true" MVP of the Lakers

son that is a dumb logic ... if that's the case then why not expose the other side as well?

Kobe before Shaq = nothing more than just another good, All Star player
Kobe as ONE of the role players with Shaq LEADING the team = 3 rings
Kobe after Shaq = same as the first
Kobe with Gasol as co-leader = another ring

son stop drinking the Kobe kool aid. He is good, but far from as "great" as some of you are lead to believe.

[ChrisRichards]

0 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins in 6 seasons prior to Kobe.
30 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins after 1.5 seasons with Kobe

Gasol's reputation before Kobe - Gasoft
Gasol's reputation with Kobe - articles about the "true" MVP of the Lakers
i dont understand this. Gasol played with Mike Miller, Shane Battier and James Posey in that Grizz team. Homer goggles aside, Kobe wont take that same Grizzlies team to 50 wins.

[duncan228]

Lakers, Pau Gasol near three-year extension (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Lakers-Pau-Gasol-near-three-year-extension;_ylt=AgVOAZgdkVMcunE8E3ML7W28vLYF?urn=nb a,209782)
By J.E. Skeets

Pau Gasol is a monster.

The Lakers are 12-1 with The Spaniard (http://goneelsewhere.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/gladiator-2.jpg) this season after an 8-3 start while Pau nursed a hammy. Since the team "acquired" Gasol from the Grizzlies, they've been to the NBA Finals two straight times with their most recent trip ending in a celebratory champagne bath.

As a result, the Lakers reportedly want to keep him around and are getting close to signing him to a three-year contract extension (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=14696), according to HoopsWorld.

Eric Pincus reports:


Currently Gasol's deal is set to expire after next season. He's currently earning $16.5 million for the current campaign and $17.8 million for the next.

The additional three years would be the maximum permitted under the rules of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

While it's not clear what dollar figures are being discussed, Gasol would be eligible for $18.7-$19.7 million in the first year of the extension depending on where the salary cap falls that year.

Of course the CBA still needs to be renegotiated, which could have an impact on the numbers.

This one's a no-brainer.

[21_Blessings]

i dont understand this. Gasol played with Mike Miller, Shane Battier and James Posey in that Grizz team. Homer goggles aside, Kobe wont take that same Grizzlies team to 50 wins.

Kobe took a much worse team to 45 wins you pathetic creature. Pau would have been swimming in lottery balls with the 05/06 Lakers.

[ChrisRichards]

son that is a dumb logic ... if that's the case then why not expose the other side as well?

Kobe before Shaq = nothing more than just another good, All Star player
Kobe as ONE of the role players with Shaq LEADING the team = 3 rings
Kobe after Shaq = same as the first
Kobe with Gasol as co-leader = another ring

son stop drinking the Kobe kool aid. He is good, but far from as "great" as some of you are lead to believe.
BINGO

i think its pretty clear right now that Kobe is option 1A and Gasol is 1B. this is not Kobe's team anymore. if they win a title this year its under kobe and gasol, not Kobe and the Lakers.


headlines should be

Kobe and Gasol leads the Lakers into another title.:lobt2:

[BRHornet45]

i dont understand this. Gasol played with Mike Miller, Shane Battier and James Posey in that Grizz team. Homer goggles aside, Kobe wont take that same Grizzlies team to 50 wins.

son I agree 100% ... Laker fans tend to forget that Kobe was absolutely nothing without Shaq holding his hand and carrying that team. They also tend to forget that Gasol is the main reason why they won the title last year, not Kobe.

[ChrisRichards]

Lakers, Pau Gasol near three-year extension (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Lakers-Pau-Gasol-near-three-year-extension;_ylt=AgVOAZgdkVMcunE8E3ML7W28vLYF?urn=nb a,209782)
By J.E. Skeets

Pau Gasol is a monster.

The Lakers are 12-1 with The Spaniard (http://goneelsewhere.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/gladiator-2.jpg) this season after an 8-3 start while Pau nursed a hammy. Since the team "acquired" Gasol from the Grizzlies, they've been to the NBA Finals two straight times with their most recent trip ending in a celebratory champagne bath.

As a result, the Lakers reportedly want to keep him around and are getting close to signing him to a three-year contract extension (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=14696), according to HoopsWorld.

Eric Pincus reports:

Currently Gasol's deal is set to expire after next season. He's currently earning $16.5 million for the current campaign and $17.8 million for the next.

The additional three years would be the maximum permitted under the rules of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

While it's not clear what dollar figures are being discussed, Gasol would be eligible for $18.7-$19.7 million in the first year of the extension depending on where the salary cap falls that year.

Of course the CBA still needs to be renegotiated, which could have an impact on the numbers.
This one's a no-brainer.


Well other than Star Power, LA are set even without Kobe for the next 3 yrs. They have Odom, Gasol, Bynum and Artest.


Shoot IMO, they should just sign Chris Paul or Lebron James and I bet they become an even deadlier team. Plus, Lebron is a better teammate than Kome. And Chris Paul would turn Bynum into a 25 and 10 All Star!

[Ghazi]

Mavs > Lakers w/o Gasol

Hell Mavs > Lakers WITH Gasol.

[ChrisRichards]

son I agree 100% ... Laker fans tend to forget that Kobe was absolutely nothing without Shaq holding his hand and carrying that team. They also tend to forget that Gasol is the main reason why they won the title last year, not Kobe.
Yup.

Kobe w/o Gasol= 1st round exit.

:toast

[z0sa]

BINGO

i think its pretty clear right now that Kobe is option 1A and Gasol is 1B. this is not Kobe's team anymore. if they win a title this year its under kobe and gasol, not Kobe and the Lakers.


headlines should be

Kobe and Gasol leads the Lakers into another title.:lobt2:

are you kidding? in 10 years, last year's title and any other ones, maybe even the shaq era titles, will all be Kobe thanks to the media.

Headlines will be:

KOBE KOBE KOBE wins another as the MainMan


Gasol won't be worht mentioning for some reasn

[Ghazi]

BR is so butthurt about the irrelevance of the Hornets :lol 121-63 :lol

[ChrisRichards]

are you kidding? in 10 years, last year's title and any other ones, maybe even the shaq era titles, will all be Kobe thanks to the media.

Headlines will be:

KOBE KOBE KOBE
Yea, and that's sad. I cant believe Kobe is getting publicity over all those better players than him at this point (Melo, Cp3, Dwight) Sick and tired of Kobe's BS. I cant wait till he retires. All he does is copy Jordan's manerisms.

[Ghazi]

Yea, and that's sad. I cant believe Kobe is getting publicity over all those better players than him at this point (Melo, Cp3, Dwight) Sick and tired of Kobe's BS. I cant wait till he retires. All he does is copy Jordan's manerisms.

:lol

[Allanon]

i dont understand this. Gasol played with Mike Miller, Shane Battier and James Posey in that Grizz team. Homer goggles aside, Kobe wont take that same Grizzlies team to 50 wins.

That's my point in all this.

We've "made up" the Laker players to be a great. In reality it's Kobe plus career under-achievers that only got their rep of great players from the last 2 years.

Look at all the guys on the Lakers, how many of them would have had you shakin' in your boots prior to 2008?

Gasoft
Odumb
Trevor Ariza - "He's delusional" Larry Brown
Ron Artest - "Powder Keg", Malice at the Palace, "Crazy Pills"
Fisher - maybe a 3rd/4th tier point guard?
"Overrated" Bynum - used to sit on the trainer's table eating cereal before Kobe bitched him out

Then you have the bench...would you ever had known these guys if they weren't Lakers?

Jordan Farmar
Sasha Vujacic
Shannon Brown
Luke Walton
Josh Powell
DJ mBenga

[ChrisRichards]

:lol
When healthy, CP3 is better than Kobe, unless shooting/chucking 25 fg's and turning the ball over is your thing.


Dwight>Kobe because a big man will always be much more important than a scoring guard, especially if that big man is a 20/20 monster, a dpoy and is leading the league in rebounding.

melo is tearing it up lately, melo is underrated in comparison to kobe. he can score efficiently, has a sick jumper, better rebounder. you replace kobe with melo and the lakers wont miss a beat/

[BRHornet45]

BINGO

i think its pretty clear right now that Kobe is option 1A and Gasol is 1B. this is not Kobe's team anymore. if they win a title this year its under kobe and gasol, not Kobe and the Lakers.


headlines should be

Kobe and Gasol leads the Lakers into another title.:lobt2:

but son unfortunately the NBA and media don't give a damn about the truth. they are in it to sell tickets and merchandise. they have been pushing Kobe Bryant down our throats for 12+ years now. damn good player, but so far from "Great" it ain't even funny. his career field goal percentage alone is comical.

the NBA doesn't want to give Gasol the credit he deserves because well ... it just wouldn't look good for their marketing campaign for Kobe. but the truth is that without Gasol on the team, the Lakers are nothing more than a 2nd round knockout at best. Kobe has never led a team to a title and never will. he road the coat tails of Shaq and got 3 rings because of it. now he is a co-leader with Gasol along with an all star cast of talent surrounding them ... yet Kobe gets 100% of the credit from most of the media. its just downright ignorant and embarrassing how hard they try and push this guy to the top.

[21_Blessings]

Would Smush have gotten that contract from Miami if it wasn't for Kobe? Thought so. Kobe makes non-NBA players look serviceable.

[21_Blessings]

Mavs > Lakers w/o Gasol

Hell Mavs > Lakers WITH Gasol.

62 > 61 :lol

[Ghazi]

Co-leader with Gasol? :lol... Kobe is the unquestionable leader... Gasol has no leadership ability whatsoever.

ALl star cast? How many All Star appearances do bynum/odom/artest have combined?

LMAO 121-63

[BRHornet45]

BR is so butthurt about the irrelevance of the Hornets :lol 121-63 :lol

LOL this coming from a Mavericks fan? what exactly has your fun boy, joke of a franchise ever done but choke?

[Ghazi]

LOL this coming from a Mavericks fan? what exactly has your fun boy, joke of a franchise ever done but choke?

121-63

Mavs 19-7

Hornets 11-13

[ChrisRichards]

That's my point in all this.

We've "made up" the Laker players to be a great. In reality it's Kobe plus career under-achievers that only got their rep of great players from the last 2 years.

Look at all the guys on the Lakers, how many of them would have had you shakin' in your boots prior to 2008?

Gasoft
Odumb
Trevor Ariza - "He's delusional" Larry Brown
Ron Artest - "Powder Keg", Malice at the Palace, "Crazy Pills"
Fisher - maybe a 3rd/4th tier point guard?

Then you have the bench...would you ever had known these guys if they weren't Lakers?

Jordan Farmar
Sasha Vujacic
Shannon Brown
Luke Walton
Josh Powell
DJ mBenga
Dont you think that maybe its the system, coaching staff and Phil jackson himself that makes them all better? not kobe? think about it. phil and his staff designs the plays, he finds a players weakness and uses their strength in the triangle. i mean if kobe is so greeaaat at making his teammates better then why is sasha sucking? why is lamar odom sucking? why is derek fisher sucking?


come on guy, look at all the role players in chicago after they left the championship team, they became obscure and MIA. same with the lakers 3 peat team.


the coach and the system imo has more impact to a player's progression/digression than one particular player unless that player is magic johnson, cp3,john stockton,steve nash,jason kidd etc.


no shooting guard who chucks 23+ fg's is going to make his teammates better.

[iggypop123]

cant wait to hear about somebodys wife

[21_Blessings]

Gasol along with an all star cast of talent surrounding them ... .

Gasol has the same amount of All-Star appearances as David West and less than Peja. :lmao

[ChrisRichards]

Co-leader with Gasol? :lol... Kobe is the unquestionable leader... Gasol has no leadership ability whatsoever.

ALl star cast? How many All Star appearances do bynum/odom/artest have combined?

LMAO 121-63
Artest was an All Star (also a DPOY)

Bynum will be an All Star this year behind Amare

Gasol will be making his third trip in the All Star Game this year


check neg Ghazi

[BRHornet45]

121-63

Mavs 19-7

Hornets 11-13

Hornets record against the Mavericks over the last 2 years

November 4, 2009

2006 NBA finals

[Ghazi]

Artest was an All Star (also a DPOY)

Bynum will be an All Star this year behind Amare

Gasol will be making his third trip in the All Star Game this year


check neg Ghazi

Gasols an All star, every title team (save '06 Mavs) needs a 2nd star... okay.

Artest, what 1 time? He isn't an All Star right now.

Bynum? Yeah probably this year... but not "actually" All Star caliber... just a byproduct of a weak time in the league for centers.

[chubster]

son that is a dumb logic ... if that's the case then why not expose the other side as well?

Kobe before Shaq = nothing more than just another good, All Star player
Kobe as ONE of the role players with Shaq LEADING the team = 3 rings
Kobe after Shaq = same as the first
Kobe with Gasol as co-leader = another ring

son stop drinking the Kobe kool aid. He is good, but far from as "great" as some of you are lead to believe.
Yes, Kobe needs help...no one claims he can take Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Lamar Odom and Luke Walton to win it all.

6th player off the bench? The great Brian Cook.

Can you think of a player who can lead that team to be a champion, while beating these teams along the way:
Suns (Nash/Amare/Marion/Barbosa)
Spurs (Duncan/Parker/Ginobili/Bowen)
Pistons (Ben/Rasheed/Billups/Price/Hamilton)
Rockets (Yao/T-mac/Battier/Scola)
Mavs (Dirk/Howard/Harris/Terry)
Nuggets (Carmelo/Iverson/Camby/Smith)

My mind is drawing blank here.

[BRHornet45]

lol its amazing to me how some people will go to hell and back for this fucking rapist.

don't get me wrong, Kobe is DAMN good. easily one of the top 10 best players over the last decade.... but one of the best EVER? come on.

[chubster]

Artest was an All Star (also a DPOY)

Bynum will be an All Star this year behind Amare

Gasol will be making his third trip in the All Star Game this year


check neg Ghazi
Kobe makes his teammates better.

[Allanon]

Dont you think that maybe its the system, coaching staff and Phil jackson himself that makes them all better? not kobe? think about it. phil and his staff designs the plays, he finds a players weakness and uses their strength in the triangle.

Absolutely Phil deserves credit.

Here's what Kobe needed:

1) Phil Jackson taught him how to be a leader
2) Derek Fisher to teach him how to be a pro
3) A Center not named Kwame

The Pau Gasol trade wasn't what turned the Lakers into the #1 West team, they already were with Bynum, Phil and Fisher.

Kobe never needed Pau Gasol specifically; just a competent center.

Replace Pau Gasol with Marc Gasol and the Lakers today would still be overwhelming favorites.

[chubster]

lol its amazing to me how some people will go to hell and back for this fucking rapist.

don't get me wrong, Kobe is DAMN good. easily one of the top 10 best players over the last decade.... but one of the best EVER? come on.
Don't bring rape into this. Let's talk basketball.
My previous question still stands.

[Culburn369]

Barkley said last night on TnT, that Kobe was close to Jordan...."in the backseat."

2 more rings, and he's gonna climb over the seat and shove Jordan right into the street.

[BRHornet45]

Barkley said last night on TnT, that Kobe was close to Jordan...."in the backseat."

2 more rings, and he's gonna climb over the seat and shove Jordan right into the street.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

sons that right there is exactly what I'm talking about. brainwashing by the media at its finest!

fuck the facts and the stats! if ESPN tells me that Kobe Bryant is the best ever, then it must be true!!!!

[z0sa]

fuck all the talking heads. TNT was okay at first, none of them give 20% of the coverage you should get. It's all about feasting on casual fan idiots who don't know better.

[ChrisRichards]

Kobe never needed Pau Gasol specifically; just a competent center.

Replace Pau Gasol with Marc Gasol and the Lakers today would still be overwhelming favorites.
Favorites? Dont think so, Gasol handled Dwight Howard quite well in the post. I dont think Mar Gasol can handle defending Shard Lewis at times and Dwight Howard inside. Marc does'nt even have Pau's offensive skillset.


Also, if a competent Center is all that Kobe needs, are you telling me the Lakers will win a title without Gasol? (Since Bynum IS a competent center)

[Allanon]

Favorites? Dont think so, Gasol handled Dwight Howard quite well in the post. I dont think Mar Gasol can handle defending Shard Lewis at times and Dwight Howard inside. Marc does'nt even have Pau's offensive skillset.

Marc Gasol is by far better defensively than Pau. Offense, Marc's a better shooter, Pau has better footwork. Marc will be a better player than Pau.

Marc Gasol this year is quick enough to guard Dirk. Pau and Marc would have problems with Shard but that's what Odom's for.



Also, if a competent Center is all that Kobe needs, are you telling me the Lakers will win a title without Gasol? (Since Bynum IS a competent center)

No. Bynum wasn't enough to get past the Celtics of 2008. Yes, he would be enough to beat them now.

Bynum + Marc Gasol would have run roughshod over the Celtics, Magic last year.

Lakers + Bynum 2009 = Favorites
Lakers + Bynum 2009 + Pau Gasol = Unfair
Lakers + Bynum 2009 + Marc Gasol = Unfair

[Brazil]

Since Gasol returned and for the moment gasol is the lakers number one. Now over a season and PO Kobe is THE lakers guy

[ChrisRichards]

Now ive heard it all MArc gasol>Pau Gasol according to Allanon :sleep

[Allanon]

Now ive heard it all MArc gasol>Pau Gasol according to Allanon :sleep

I didn't say that. I said he WILL be > Pau Gasol overall. Pau has better footwork and much more experience.

Right now, Marc's a better shooter and better defender than his brother Pau.

Marc will never suffer from being called "Gasoft".

[Allanon]

Now ive heard it all MArc gasol>Pau Gasol according to Allanon :sleep

I do have a question for you ChrisRichards.

If the Lakers replaced Pau Gasol with Marc Gasol would they still be the favorites?

[chubster]

Dont you think that maybe its the system, coaching staff and Phil jackson himself that makes them all better? not kobe? think about it. phil and his staff designs the plays, he finds a players weakness and uses their strength in the triangle. i mean if kobe is so greeaaat at making his teammates better then why is sasha sucking? why is lamar odom sucking? why is derek fisher sucking?


come on guy, look at all the role players in chicago after they left the championship team, they became obscure and MIA. same with the lakers 3 peat team.


the coach and the system imo has more impact to a player's progression/digression than one particular player unless that player is magic johnson, cp3,john stockton,steve nash,jason kidd etc.


no shooting guard who chucks 23+ fg's is going to make his teammates better.
The system definitely helps because it plays to the players' strength which is post ups and hard cuts.
Outside of Derek Fisher, Lakers don't have a single player who can shoot consistently from outside so that means that they're not your typical inside/outside team like the Spurs or the Magic.

Normally, teams would just pack the lane and let the shooters shoot all day. I mean, who would worry if Odom, Shannon Brown, Vujacic and Artest keep chucking away from the perimeter as long as they keep Gasol and Bynum in check?

Sounds simple enough, right?

Well, it would be that had the Lakers not had one player by the name of Kobe Bryant.
Kobe is so damn dangerous anywhere on the court. When I mean anywhere, I literally mean starting from the key area up to 10 feet behind the 3 point line and anywhere in between.
He will score on you if you let up. If you decide to pack the lane so Gasol and Bynum can't get touches, well, that's just automatic death sentence right there because he will burn his defender 1 on 1 through jumpers or penetrate to draw contacts. The most dangerous part of his scoring aspect is that he does not need his big man to come out and give him screens all the time. He's perfectly happy to beat his defender 1 one 1 for 48 minutes a night and he will. Which perimeter player can do this nowadays? Wade couldn't, James couldn't. They need a lot of high screen to operate.

So now, the opposition coach is faced with a choice of letting Kobe get his while shutting down the post plays or crowd him when he starts attacking from the mid-range. They have made their choice and we can see it todays in games how the oppositions react when Kobe has the ball.

Now, how does this relate to making his teams better? Well, here it is. Since Kobe has to be doubled and tripled team anywhere on the court (sometimes even when he's standing outside the 3 point line), suddenly the other player's strength is magnified. Gasol has the post all to himself, Bynum just stood there with his long arms to dunk the ball, Ariza and Odom cut hard and get the layup or the foul. Fisher and Artest stand around on the perimeter to ensure the defense honest and they've been seeing more open looks than ever in their entire career.

The Lakers system is an awesome one but it relies on one unquestionable foundation which is; Kobe Bryant can not stop attacking from the perimeter. Not for half a game, not for a quarter, not for half a quarter. For the system to work, he has to attract the hardest and nastiest shot the defense can dish out so his teammates (which are also awesome in their own regards) can take care of the rest.

[Brazil]

Allanon

larkers with Marc contenders = yes / favorite absolute as of today = no

[Brazil]

^btw I'm sure we can use the same logic with Kobe

[Allanon]

^btw I'm sure we can use the same logic with Kobe

Playoff team with Bynum & Marc & Pau, yes for sure. But I don't think the Lakers are contenders without Kobe.

It would be Sasha Vujacic as starting shooting guard. :lol

[ChrisRichards]

Barkley said last night on TnT, that Kobe was close to Jordan...."in the backseat."

2 more rings, and he's gonna climb over the seat and shove Jordan right into the street.
tehee culb, tehee

[BRHornet45]

The most dangerous part of his scoring aspect is that all he has to do is run into the lane, scream really loud, and then dramatically throw the ball up in air. freebies from the refs on the way!


there ya go son. I fixed it for you. now THAT is the truth.

[ChrisRichards]

I do have a question for you ChrisRichards.

If the Lakers replaced Pau Gasol with Marc Gasol would they still be the favorites?
Denver would beat them. Boston will beat them. Not a favorite anymore IMO.

[duncan228]

It would be Sasha Vujacic as starting shooting guard. :lol

Speaking of Sasha...

Where in the world is Sasha? (http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2009/12/17/where-in-the-world-is-sasha/26921/)
Janis Carr
OCRegister.com

Sasha Vujacic, remember him?

The on-again, off-again “Machine” has mostly been off this month. As in the switch has been turned off by the coaching staff.

Vujacic hasn’t played more than 10 minutes in any game this month, received a DNP against Chicago, and has scored a combined total of 12 points for December. In fact, he has scored just 48 points in 160 minutes all season.

That can’t set well for either side. Vujacic, who signed a three-year, $15-million contract in July 2008, wants to play and not just in garbage time. The coaches apparently have other ideas.

Vujacic has always had a tendency to press when his minutes have decrease, trying to fit 25 minutes of play in 10 minutes on the court. The result usually are bad shots, bad fouls and, in turn, more bench time. And with Kobe Bryant, Shannon Brown and even Jordan Farmar, playing as well as they have, the situation doesn’t look rosy for the Slovenian.

Wonder who will blink first? Will Vujacic demand a trade, or will the Lakers trade him before the February 2010 deadline?

[Brazil]

Playoff team with Bynum & Marc & Pau, yes for sure. But I don't think the Lakers are contenders without Kobe.

It would be Sasha Vujacic as starting shooting guard. :lol

I mean replace Kobe by Pierce, carmelo they are still favorites and replace Kobe by I don't know Iguodala they are still contenders

[Allanon]

Denver would beat them. Boston will beat them. Not a favorite anymore IMO.

Marc Gasol's a whole lot tougher than Pau.

Lakers would actually have an easier time with power teams like the Celtics, Cavs and Nugs.

Finesse teams like the Magic, Suns and Mavs would cause more problems than those teams.

[Mike D]

Trolls run wild in this thread.

[chubster]

there ya go son. I fixed it for you. now THAT is the truth.
I guess it is suitable for someone who has a picture of a preacher on their avatar to spew their words with sanctimony and defamation while at the same time pass it out as the truth of all truth.

[Allanon]

I mean replace Kobe by Pierce, carmelo they are still favorites and replace Kobe by I don't know Iguodala they are still contenders

Pierce, Melo, Igoudala I don't think are good enough. They themselves need to be motivated to play.

There's gotta be a dick on the team to motivate the under-achievers like Pau, Bynum & Odom.

The Celtics wouldn't have been champs without KG. Lakers wouldn't have been champs without Kobe. You can switch KG, Kobe & MJ and their teams all would have won.

Your Spurs are a different story because there have always been professionals on that team.

[iggypop123]

I guess it is suitable for someone who has a picture of a preacher on their avatar to spew their words with sanctimony and defamation while at the same time pass it out as the truth of all truth.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VU11A61FM68/SoNmAraXiDI/AAAAAAAAEq8/MXrbmVwdvpg/s400/RevManning.jpg

[Brazil]

Pierce, Melo, Igoudala I don't think are good enough. They themselves need to be motivated to play.

There's gotta be a dick on the team to motivate the under-achievers like Pau, Bynum & Odom.

The Celtics wouldn't have been champs without KG. Lakers wouldn't have been champs without Kobe. You can switch KG, Kobe & MJ and their teams all would have won.

Your Spurs are a different story because there have always been professionals on that team.

Pierce and Melo would be good enough IMO Iggy no but still the lakers would be a very good team with him instead of Kobe

[Allanon]

Pierce and Melo would be good enough IMO Iggy no but still the lakers would be a very good team with him instead of Kobe

Celtics got taken to 7 games by a Bulls team that might not even make the Playoffs and then lost to the Magic without KG. Celtics without KG lose all of their attitude and confidence because there's no asshole yelling at them :lol

Melo from previous years was an under-achiever and part of the Nugget's immaturity problem.

Melo this year on the Lakers and maybe you're right because he's matured alot.

[ChrisRichards]

Replace Kobe with Pierce and the Lakers are still contenders, same with Brandon Roy,Melo and Joe Johnson. Iguodala, I dont think so because he does'nt have a consistent jumper to make it work ni the triangle.


So, Allanon, If you'll accept the fact that those perimeter players can still make the Lakers the favorites then I wont have any problems accepting Marc replacing Pau would also make them the favorites.

[ChrisRichards]

The system definitely helps because it plays to the players' strength which is post ups and hard cuts.
Outside of Derek Fisher, Lakers don't have a single player who can shoot consistently from outside so that means that they're not your typical inside/outside team like the Spurs or the Magic.

Normally, teams would just pack the lane and let the shooters shoot all day. I mean, who would worry if Odom, Shannon Brown, Vujacic and Artest keep chucking away from the perimeter as long as they keep Gasol and Bynum in check?

Sounds simple enough, right?

Well, it would be that had the Lakers not had one player by the name of Kobe Bryant.
Kobe is so damn dangerous anywhere on the court. When I mean anywhere, I literally mean starting from the key area up to 10 feet behind the 3 point line and anywhere in between.
He will score on you if you let up. If you decide to pack the lane so Gasol and Bynum can't get touches, well, that's just automatic death sentence right there because he will burn his defender 1 on 1 through jumpers or penetrate to draw contacts. The most dangerous part of his scoring aspect is that he does not need his big man to come out and give him screens all the time. He's perfectly happy to beat his defender 1 one 1 for 48 minutes a night and he will. Which perimeter player can do this nowadays? Wade couldn't, James couldn't. They need a lot of high screen to operate.

So now, the opposition coach is faced with a choice of letting Kobe get his while shutting down the post plays or crowd him when he starts attacking from the mid-range. They have made their choice and we can see it todays in games how the oppositions react when Kobe has the ball.

Now, how does this relate to making his teams better? Well, here it is. Since Kobe has to be doubled and tripled team anywhere on the court (sometimes even when he's standing outside the 3 point line), suddenly the other player's strength is magnified. Gasol has the post all to himself, Bynum just stood there with his long arms to dunk the ball, Ariza and Odom cut hard and get the layup or the foul. Fisher and Artest stand around on the perimeter to ensure the defense honest and they've been seeing more open looks than ever in their entire career.

The Lakers system is an awesome one but it relies on one unquestionable foundation which is; Kobe Bryant can not stop attacking from the perimeter. Not for half a game, not for a quarter, not for half a quarter. For the system to work, he has to attract the hardest and nastiest shot the defense can dish out so his teammates (which are also awesome in their own regards) can take care of the rest.


Thats too much to dissect ill get back on you later, but I do think that its not KOBE that primarily gives his teammates the opportunity, its the system.


Triangle is an equal opportunuty offense, Tex made some revisions of course but the way they give players spacing while putting them in their proper spots makes the players effective NOT KOBE.


Thanks

[Allanon]

Replace Kobe with Pierce and the Lakers are still contenders, same with Brandon Roy,Melo and Joe Johnson. Iguodala, I dont think so because he does'nt have a consistent jumper to make it work ni the triangle.


So, Allanon, If you'll accept the fact that those perimeter players can still make the Lakers the favorites then I wont have any problems accepting Marc replacing Pau would also make them the favorites.

I don't have a problem with Melo since he is at a Kobe level this year. These are your 2 MVP candidates this year. Dirk probably (if he were a SF or SG) and Nash/CP3 are tempting too.

DWade is having a down year and apparently out of shape and LeBron's too busy dancing.

Pierce, Roy & Joe Johnson are not self-motivated enough to influence mellow guys like Pau, Bynum and Odom to over-achieve. And none of them have enough of Ron's respect to keep him in line.

[Brazil]

Celtics got taken to 7 games by a Bulls team that might not even make the Playoffs and then lost to the Magic without KG. Celtics without KG lose all of their attitude and confidence because there's no asshole yelling at them :lol

Melo from previous years was an under-achiever and part of the Nugget's immaturity problem.

Melo this year on the Lakers and maybe you're right because he's matured alot.

For Melo I agree I'm speaking about the today Melo. For Pierce, I'm speaking about a Pierce with a 100% healthy lakers team, I think they still are favorites to win it all. Your example of the bulls is not a good one because precisely KG wasn't there.

I think a Pierce Fisher Bynum Artest Gasol and Odom squad would be favorite to win it all and Pierce is clever enough to work well on the triangle offense. Other question we can raise is: how better boston would be with Kobe instead of Pierce ?

[chubster]

Thats too much to dissect ill get back on you later, but I do think that its not KOBE that primarily gives his teammates the opportunity, its the system.


Triangle is an equal opportunuty offense, Tex made some revisions of course but the way they give players spacing while putting them in their proper spots makes the players effective NOT KOBE.


Thanks
You're basing your argument on cliches on rehashed phrases. Do you even know what "equal opportunity" means? Do you think "spacing" just appear out of thin air because something you draw on the chalkboard?

Phil Jackson don't point to a spot and say "Go there and you'll have your space!". That's non-sense.
Spacing in basketball comes after you're able to disrupt the defense and make them rotate into positions they're not comfortable with.

[Allanon]

how better boston would be with Kobe instead of Pierce ?

The best team for Kobe is one like the Lakers, a bunch of under-achievers who he can drive to over-achieve. Every major Laker player has had a weak past but now are playing great with Kobe so we forget about their old flaws.

Boston with Kobe would probably win a championship easily before they killed each other in the summer. This is even worse than ShaqKobe.

Kobe doesn't work with other asshole Superstars like KG and he hates Ray Allen. :lol

Nice guy like Duncan + Kobe would probably have won 10 rings in a row.

[Allanon]

Speaking of Sasha...

Where in the world is Sasha? (http://lakers.freedomblogging.com/2009/12/17/where-in-the-world-is-sasha/26921/)
Janis Carr
OCRegister.com

Sasha Vujacic, remember him?

The on-again, off-again “Machine” has mostly been off this month. As in the switch has been turned off by the coaching staff.

Vujacic hasn’t played more than 10 minutes in any game this month, received a DNP against Chicago, and has scored a combined total of 12 points for December. In fact, he has scored just 48 points in 160 minutes all season.

That can’t set well for either side. Vujacic, who signed a three-year, $15-million contract in July 2008, wants to play and not just in garbage time. The coaches apparently have other ideas.

Vujacic has always had a tendency to press when his minutes have decrease, trying to fit 25 minutes of play in 10 minutes on the court. The result usually are bad shots, bad fouls and, in turn, more bench time. And with Kobe Bryant, Shannon Brown and even Jordan Farmar, playing as well as they have, the situation doesn’t look rosy for the Slovenian.

Wonder who will blink first? Will Vujacic demand a trade, or will the Lakers trade him before the February 2010 deadline?

The Machine is actually well known because he's on the Lakers. If he were on the Bucks, we wouldn't even know who he is. No way he's asking out of LA.

He does seem to be coming around this year, he'll get back in Phil's graces and hit a couple of big shots (1 semi big shot a couple weeks ago was a good start).

[hater]

Horseshit. They would still be the absolute favorites to come out of the West.

without Gasol???

:lmao

:lmao

:lmao


good stuff

[Killakobe81]

0 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins in 6 seasons prior to Kobe.
30 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins after 1.5 seasons with Kobe

Gasol's reputation before Kobe - Gasoft
Gasol's reputation with Kobe - articles about the "true" MVP of the Lakers

Great post. And no this is NOT an indictment of Gasol in fact as great as he was against Bucks watch how bad he played on offense the night before ...
Gasol is better because of kobe he takes the pressure off ...but ANY offense (including LA's works better inside out) is better with an inside presence ...I dont disagree with that but to win ALL inside presence players need perimeter guys to free up the middle as well ...

[hater]

0 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins in 6 seasons prior to Kobe.
30 wins - Gasol's Playoff wins after 1.5 seasons with Kobe

Gasol's reputation before Kobe - Gasoft
Gasol's reputation with Kobe - articles about the "true" MVP of the Lakers

Put Kobe on the Griz and Gasol on the Lakers and it's a different story.

Gasol had no help in his career, while Kobe had Shaq, Showtime Lakers and some decent help in post Shaq era

[Allanon]

Put Kobe on the Griz and Gasol on the Lakers and it's a different story.

Gasol had no help in his career, while Kobe had Shaq, Showtime Lakers and some decent help in post Shaq era

ShaqKobe is a no brainer.

But even Smush Parker & Kwame Brown had a couple of Playoff wins where Pau never did in 6 years although he had plenty of chances to win just 1 Playoff game.

Gasol's 0 Playoff wins were even worse than T-Mac never getting out of the first round and earned him the dubious nickname of "Gasoft"

[djohn2oo8]

without Gasol???

:lmao

:lmao

:lmao


good stuff

I know, some Laker fans forget that before Gasol, the Lakers would bend over and spread their cheeks while Steve Nash and company ran a train on their asses

[Culburn369]

I know, some Laker fans forget that before Gasol, the Lakers would bend over and spread their cheeks while Steve Nash and company ran a train on their asses

O & 41!

tee, hee.

[Killakobe81]

Dont you think that maybe its the system, coaching staff and Phil jackson himself that makes them all better? not kobe? think about it. phil and his staff designs the plays, he finds a players weakness and uses their strength in the triangle. i mean if kobe is so greeaaat at making his teammates better then why is sasha sucking? why is lamar odom sucking? why is derek fisher sucking?


come on guy, look at all the role players in chicago after they left the championship team, they became obscure and MIA. same with the lakers 3 peat team.


the coach and the system imo has more impact to a player's progression/digression than one particular player unless that player is magic johnson, cp3,john stockton,steve nash,jason kidd etc.

Dude YOUr smear campaign against Kobe is becoming so pathetic it's HILARIOUS at this point ...you and the Nick Cage Heat looking guy and BR Hornet have some issue with Kobe and need to seek counseling.
Let me play Dr.Phil? Is it because Dwade (or CP3 or insert favorute player here) is your all-time hero and you wish he had the place in the game that Kobe occupies now? Because Kobe stole his (their) Olympic glory by making the clutchest of shots? Or was the last game winner more than you insecure fans can handle? WADE (and CP3) is great ...all of the Kobe accolades DOES NOT diminish Wade (read that again in case you dont unsersatnd it the first time) The thing that is funny in his one title season or even last year Wade chucked over 23 shots on more than one occasion DOES that mean he DID NOT make his teamamtes better?

Some of you on here know dyck about basketball ...and just because CP3 dribbles the ball all the time and has high assists doesnt mean he makes teammates so much better ... holdingthe ball to only get assists off pnr all day still means guys are sitting watching 2 players ...in fact there was an article posted on ESPN saying the Hornets players would develop more if their system wasnt predicated on CP3 creating ALL of the offense and that they played better when he was out....I don't agree with that completely but a case can be made. That is why i think Dwill is better (and Nash) because they dont need the ball to be effective but Paul does ...and to be honest to some extent Kobe does too ...BUt he makes his teammates better with being an example attracting attention, and work ethic and competive spirit Wade and CP3 have thsese as well but Gasol as good as he is doesnt have it on that level ...

Many guys from the "REdeem team" credit Kobe's work ethic, willingness to guurd the best opposing player and dedication to improving their games ...
(not CPR or Dwill) they all gave props to Kobe ...but you losers can't give him credit ...but it's ok I wonder whom Kobe really cares about his peers or the haters? Yall just feed him feul ...and when he daggers your team (well maybe not the heat cuz they won't be in the FINALS) for more titles


no shooting guard who chucks 23+ fg's is going to make his teammates better. EXCEPT wade right? LOL

[Killakobe81]

Replace Kobe with Pierce and the Lakers are still contenders, same with Brandon Roy,Melo and Joe Johnson. Iguodala, I dont think so because he does'nt have a consistent jumper to make it work ni the triangle.


So, Allanon, If you'll accept the fact that those perimeter players can still make the Lakers the favorites then I wont have any problems accepting Marc replacing Pau would also make them the favorites.

Contenders yes champs ...no. Melo and Pierce i would say example works Roy and Joe J are good but not HOF'ers ...

[Killakobe81]

Artest was an All Star (also a DPOY)

Bynum will be an All Star this year behind Amare

Gasol will be making his third trip in the All Star Game this year


check neg Ghazi

Dude YOUr smear campaign against Kobe is becoming so pathetic it's HILARIOUS at this point ...you and the Nick Cage Heat looking guy and BR Hornet have some issue with Kobe and need to seek counseling.
Let me play Dr.Phil? Is it because Dwade (or CP3 or insert favorute player here) is your all-time hero and you wish he had the place in the game that Kobe occupies now? Because Kobe stole his (their) Olympic glory by making the clutchest of shots? Or was the last game winner more than you insecure fans can handle? WADE (and CP3) is great ...all of the Kobe accolades DOES NOT diminish Wade (read that again in case you dont unsersatnd it the first time) The thing that is funny in his one title season or even last year Wade chucked over 23 shots on more than one occasion DOES that mean he DID NOT make his teamamtes better?

Some of you on here know dyck about basketball ...and just because CP3 dribbles the ball all the time and has high assists doesnt mean he makes teammates so much better ... holdingthe ball to only get assists off pnr all day still means guys are sitting watching 2 players ...in fact there was an article posted on ESPN saying the Hornets players would develop more if their system wasnt predicated on CP3 creating ALL of the offense and that they played better when he was out....I don't agree with that completely but a case can be made. That is why i think Dwill is better (and Nash) because they dont need the ball to be effective but Paul does ...and to be honest to some extent Kobe does too ...BUt he makes his teammates better with being an example attracting attention, and work ethic and competive spirit Wade and CP3 have thsese as well but Gasol as good as he is doesnt have it on that level ...

Many guys from the "REdeem team" credit Kobe's work ethic, willingness to guurd the best opposing player and dedication to improving their games ...
(not CPR or Dwill) they all gave props to Kobe ...but you losers can't give him credit ...but it's ok I wonder whom Kobe really cares about his peers or the haters? Yall just feed him feul ...and when he daggers your team (well maybe not the heat cuz they won't be in the FINALS) for more titles


no shooting guard who chucks 23+ fg's is going to make his teammates better ...EXCEPT DWADE!

[Allanon]

Kobe haters would rather die than credit Kobe as an MVP of a team. These used to be the rave reviews about Gasoft before this "real MVP" talk.


Gasol is more like Gasoft in the playoffs. No wonder wonder he has not won a playoff game until he arrived in LA.


Gasol is Duncan's bitch. Thought the Lakers got the memo before they acquired him.


if only gasoft could play defense, his softness is not helping odom or radmanovic or fisher get any harder...

i did take bonner over gasoft to park in the paint.


Gasol is soft (shit, go to your own forum and read Gasoft left and right), and has been constantly owned by Duncan. He's a finesse player. He's not a banger. And he doesn't know how to 'man up'.


Nowitzki was right.

Gasol is a piece of shit


Pau Gasol is big Charmin Bear.


Gasol is a douche bag. One of the last people i want to see win a ring. Luckily the Spurs will own the Lakers in the rest of the series


Prior to this year, his playoff record was 0-12. Think about that. Zero and twelve. I don't care who your teammates are, if you supposed to be an elite player you don't lose twelve playoff games in a row to ANYBODY. Says something about his mental makeup.

If the Spurs come back and win this series, the emotional weakness of Gasol and Odom, two guys with first-team talent but fourth-team hearts, will play a big role.

[iggypop123]

I know, some Laker fans forget that before Gasol, the Lakers would bend over and spread their cheeks while Steve Nash and company ran a train on their asses

the lakers destroyed the suns on christmas and bynum had 28 and 12.

[UrAphag]

All the trolls are going all out tonight eh? It's funny to me how everyone will give gasol the credit for the ring last year, but when they lost against the celtics, it was because of kobe.

[Mavs_man_41]

All the trolls are going all out tonight eh? It's funny to me how everyone will give gasol the credit for the ring last year, but when they lost against the celtics, it was because of kobe.

that's because gasol was still getting used to the system. duh

[TheMACHINE]

lol..gasol was a noboy before he showed up to the lakers..now he is the reason they won the championship. HAHAH...idiots.

[Mavs_man_41]

lol..gasol was a noboy before he showed up to the lakers..now he is the reason they won the championship. HAHAH...idiots.

the lakers were a nobody team before he showed up, getting owned by the suns annually, now they win IN SPITE of him? :lmao

[Venti Quattro]

the lakers were a nobody team before he showed up, getting owned by the suns annually, now they win IN SPITE of him? :lmao

Three years the suns were semi-good and you make it look like it's been a long long time.

Mavs + Suns < Gasol

bwaahahaha :lmao

[Greg Oden]

Three years the suns were semi-good and you make it look like it's been a long long time.

Mavs + Suns < Gasol

bwaahahaha :lmao

great post!

[Mavs_man_41]

Three years the suns were semi-good and you make it look like it's been a long long time.

ok? my only point was that kobe can't ring sans gasol

[Venti Quattro]

ok? my only point was that kobe can't ring sans gasol
Gasol can't win without Kobe

Kobe can't win without Fisher

Kobe can't win without Phil

Kobe can't win without Winter

Kobe can't win without Vitti

Bla bla bla bla bla

Professional basketball is a team sport so you never see teams with a one-man army win championship/s unless you're playing a 1 on 1 tournament.

[MiamiHeat]

Kobe can't win without All-Star big men.

[Venti Quattro]

Kobe can't win without All-Star big men.

So can Magic not.

So can Jerry West not.

So can Parker not.

So can Pierce and Allen not.

It isn't rocket science that most championship teams (except for Jordan's champ teams) needed great and skilled big men to go over the hump.

Cry me a river.

[Mavs_man_41]

So can Magic not.

So can Jerry West not.

So can Parker not.

So can Pierce and Allen not.

It isn't rocket science that most championship teams (except for Jordan's champ teams) needed great and skilled big men to go over the hump.

Cry me a river.

my only point was that the lakers sucked before gasol

[Venti Quattro]

my only point was that the lakers sucked before gasol
14 championships before Gasol.

9 if you're a Celtic purist that believes that the titles of MPLS shouldn't be carried over to LA.

Maybe you can set a specific timeline like 4 years before Gasol fell into the lap of Kobe Bryant.

[Mavs_man_41]

14 championships before Gasol.

9 if you're a Celtic purist that believes that the titles of MPLS shouldn't be carried over to LA.

Maybe you can set a specific timeline like 4 years before Gasol fell into the lap of Kobe Bryant.

the lakers sucked in modern day nba before gasol came along. fact

[Venti Quattro]

the lakers sucked in modern day nba before gasol came along. fact
Point taken; they did

[LnGrrrR]

It's hard to maintain a "soft" label when you're grabbing twenty rebounds a game.

[Mavs_man_41]

It's hard to maintain a "soft" label when you're grabbing twenty rebounds a game.

true story brah. gasol is legit

[MiamiHeat]

So can Magic not.

So can Jerry West not.

So can Parker not.

So can Pierce and Allen not.

It isn't rocket science that most championship teams (except for Jordan's champ teams) needed great and skilled big men to go over the hump.

Cry me a river.

but Jordan can. :whine

[Venti Quattro]

but Jordan can. :whine
Please re-read my exception enclosed in parenthesis :toast

[Mavs_man_41]

but Jordan can. :whine

:lmao miamiheat workin on gettin his cool points back up

[Allanon]

You guys are right.

Jordan didn't need an All Star Center to win rings; he needed one of the 50 Greatest NBA Players of all time.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/9/97/50_greatest_615_080211.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

You guys are right.

Jordan didn't need an All Star Center to win rings; he needed one of the 50 Greatest NBA Players of all time.

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/9/97/50_greatest_615_080211.jpg
exactly.

[chubster]

but Jordan can. :whine
You're seriously disrespecting prime Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman.

[Venti Quattro]

You're seriously disrespecting prime Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman.

They're great, yes, but they are role players and not really in the 1-2 punch combo of those Bulls championship teams.

They'll always be remembered for Jordan and Pippen.

[MiamiHeat]

You're seriously disrespecting prime Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman.

Dennis Rodman only made the All-star team twice, and it was 4 years before he joined the Bulls. He never made one in a Bulls uniform.

and Horace Grant only made the All-Star team once, and it wasn't with MJ.

[MiamiHeat]

I can say the same type of disrespect for Lamar Odom.

[chubster]

They're great, yes, but they are role players and not really in the 1-2 punch combo of those Bulls championship teams.

They'll always be remembered for Jordan and Pippen.
Oh, I know that. I'm just responding to posters who make it seems that the Bulls big men were crap.

[MiamiHeat]

They were crap.

Rodman had the worst offensive game in the nba, as bad as Ben Wallace.

He was an offensive liability. His only skill was rebound, some defense, and hustle.


Luc Longley? LOL WHITE CENTER

[Venti Quattro]

He was an offensive liability. His only skill was rebound, some defense, and hustle.

Pissin off and being always beaten up by Frank Brickowski is a skill too

[chubster]

Dennis Rodman only made the All-star team twice, and it was 4 years before he joined the Bulls. He never made one in a Bulls uniform.

and Horace Grant only made the All-Star team once, and it wasn't with MJ.
Like I said, serious disrespect. What do you have against Horace Grant and Denis Rodman?
Why do they have to be all stars anyway? What does that prove?

[chubster]

I can say the same type of disrespect for Lamar Odom.
What disrespect?

[TheMACHINE]

Kobe can't win without All-Star big men.

Shaq cant win without a hall of famer by his side. Kobe can.

[Rogue]

it's quite common for foreign dumbasses to think more highly of other foreign dumbasses than they rightfully should. and when i say "foreign dumbass," i'm not talking about Pau Gasol but Kobme Bryant who was born in Italy.

[TheMACHINE]

the lakers sucked in modern day nba before gasol came along. fact

Before Bynum got injured that year, what place was the Lakers in the west?

[MiamiHeat]

Shaq cant win without a hall of famer by his side. Kobe can.

Pau Gasol will go to the Hall of fame now

He has a ring, and his numbers speak for themselves. By the end of his career, he is going to be HoF material.

so fail.

[TheMACHINE]

but Jordan can. :whine

Jordan needed another hall of famer by his side. Kobe just did it without one.

try again.

[Venti Quattro]

Before Bynum got injured that year, what place was the Lakers in the west?
We started plummeting games after he was gone and before Gasol landed into us lol

[Culburn369]

Pau Gasol will go to the Hall of fame now

He has a ring, and his numbers speak for themselves. By the end of his career, he is going to be HoF material.

so fail.

Heat, runnin' as fast as he can.

:rollin

[TheMACHINE]

Pau Gasol will go to the Hall of fame now

He has a ring, and his numbers speak for themselves. By the end of his career, he is going to be HoF material.

so fail.

oh ok..cuz of Kobe he is a hall of famer...good to know

try again.

[MiamiHeat]

Before Bynum got injured that year, what place was the Lakers in the west?

The Suns were #1ranked in the Western conference for a few years

I guess they shoulda just been handed the championship?

LOL

P.S. The Lakers being in the top spot for a little piece of the season is no accomplishment. Let me know the results at the end of the season.

and even then, LOL SUNS, LOL MAVS with #1 record in 2007, LOL


Lakers woulda been a first round exit, like always

[TheMACHINE]

The Suns were #1ranked in the Western conference for a few years

I guess they shoulda just been handed the championship?

LOL

P.S. The Lakers being in the top spot for a little piece of the season is no accomplishment. Let me know the results at the end of the season.

and even then, LOL SUNS, LOL MAVS with #1 record in 2007, LOL


Lakers woulda been a first round exit, like always

The lakers still lost with Gasol in the Finals...whats your point?

Try again.

[MiamiHeat]

Jordan needed another hall of famer by his side. Kobe just did it without one.

try again.

oh ... ok. cuz of Jordan now pippen is a hall of famer

try again

[chubster]

They were crap.

Rodman had the worst offensive game in the nba, as bad as Ben Wallace.

He was an offensive liability. His only skill was rebound, some defense, and hustle.


Luc Longley? LOL WHITE CENTER
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Phil-Jackson-Rodman-is-the-greatest-athlete-I-v?urn=nba,103886

Phil Jackson's take on Denis Rodman.

[TheMACHINE]

oh ... ok. cuz of Jordan now pippen is a hall of famer

try again

last time i checked, they both were in the same team throught out the 6 championship years.

I dont see gasol next to kobe for his first 3.

try again.

[TheManFromAcme]

The Suns were #1ranked in the Western conference for a few years

I guess they shoulda just been handed the championship?

LOL

P.S. The Lakers being in the top spot for a little piece of the season is no accomplishment. Let me know the results at the end of the season.

and even then, LOL SUNS, LOL MAVS with #1 record in 2007, LOL


Lakers woulda been a first round exit, like always


....Like always? In case you've been living under a rock Miami the "Like always" claim cannot be used with the Lakers. Have you been seeing basketball for more than 20 years? If you haven't then you'll understand that the "Like always" comment don't apply with dem here Lakers.
Save that line for another team. :nope

[MiamiHeat]

yeah, like i give a shit

I'm just the messenger of truth.

[chubster]

yeah, like i give a shit

I'm just the messenger of truth.
No, I'm the messenger of truth.

[MiamiHeat]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Phil-Jackson-Rodman-is-the-greatest-athlete-I-v?urn=nba,103886

Phil Jackson's take on Denis Rodman.

Phil Jackson's take on Kobe Bryant

"Jackson wrote he became so frustrated with Bryant that he told general manager Mitch Kupchak in January, "I won't coach this team next year if he is still here. He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid."

It was not the first time Jackson requested the team trade Bryant. He sought to trade him to the Phoenix Suns for Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion in the 1999-00 season.

Jackson wrote that Bryant was angry that O'Neal received allowances from the Lakers organization, but that "nobody this year, or in any year I've coached, has received more 'allowances' than Kobe Bryant."

Among those allowances was the Lakers organization's partial payment for the private jets Bryant took to Colorado for the hearings in his rape case.

Bryant complained about the kind of plane he was given to fly to Colorado, Jackson wrote, adding "He should feel fortunate that he's not footing the bill himself."

Jackson said he became conditioned to blame Bryant, even when it wasn't the player's fault.

The sexual assault charge against Bryant was dismissed last month at his accuser's request, but he still faces a lawsuit filed in Denver by the woman.

Bryant told Jackson that O'Neal's presence on the team would affect his decision to stay with the Lakers, adding, "I'm tired of being a sidekick," Jackson wrote.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2004-10-12-jackson-book_x.htm


I would temporarily cheer for another team if Kobe Bryant was ever on the Miami Heat.

How can ANYONE cheer for that guy, ugh.

[chubster]

Phil Jackson's take on Kobe Bryant

"Jackson wrote he became so frustrated with Bryant that he told general manager Mitch Kupchak in January, "I won't coach this team next year if he is still here. He won't listen to anyone. I've had it with this kid."

It was not the first time Jackson requested the team trade Bryant. He sought to trade him to the Phoenix Suns for Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion in the 1999-00 season.

Jackson wrote that Bryant was angry that O'Neal received allowances from the Lakers organization, but that "nobody this year, or in any year I've coached, has received more 'allowances' than Kobe Bryant."

Among those allowances was the Lakers organization's partial payment for the private jets Bryant took to Colorado for the hearings in his rape case.

Bryant complained about the kind of plane he was given to fly to Colorado, Jackson wrote, adding "He should feel fortunate that he's not footing the bill himself."

Jackson said he became conditioned to blame Bryant, even when it wasn't the player's fault.

The sexual assault charge against Bryant was dismissed last month at his accuser's request, but he still faces a lawsuit filed in Denver by the woman.

Bryant told Jackson that O'Neal's presence on the team would affect his decision to stay with the Lakers, adding, "I'm tired of being a sidekick," Jackson wrote.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/2004-10-12-jackson-book_x.htm


I would temporarily cheer for another team if Kobe Bryant was ever on the Miami Heat.

How can ANYONE cheer for that guy, ugh.
Not the same person anymore. He has matured a lot since then and PJ has been singing praises.
As for disliking Bryant, you should ask why do you judge a basketball player based on things outside of basketball.

[MiamiHeat]

I don't like to see shitty people succeed

I think they should fail hard, and fall on their face so that they are forced to change and become good people

at which point, then I want them to succeed

If Dwyane Wade was a rapist, egotistical, bratty child, selfish son of a bitch, I don't give a fuck about his basketball skills. I am not cheering for a team he is on.


Bryant hasn't changed. Soon as Bryant couldn't stroke his own penis, he shat on the Lakers and demanded a trade. After all the loyalty Buss showed to him through the draft to trade for him and save him from obscurity in a Hornets uniform, to the whole Phil Jackson asking to trade Bryant twice, to the whole Shaq-Kobe feud, in the end, Kobe demanded a trade and shat all over your franchise.

he's a shitty person, and he's all about himself. He hasn't changed a bit, and I think shitty people like that should not succeed.

P.S. He's not even that great, overrated. and that's real talk.

[dirk4mvp]

miamiheat is bending you motherfuckers over and making you all his bitches. bow down and kiss his shoes.

lmao kobe fans

[chubster]

I don't like to see shitty people succeed

I think they should fail hard, and fall on their face so that they are forced to change and become good people

He did fail. For 7 seasons he failed to win his 4th ring.
Beside, it's not up to you to set the standard of who's good and who's shitty as a human being.

Bryant hasn't changed.
His game has. His leadership has.

[MiamiHeat]

His game has. His leadership has.

LOL at that garbage

anyone with 2 eyes knows that Gasol/Fisher added to the lineup caused the Lakers to go over the top in talent.

suddenly now, kobe's changed.

sureeee.

that's why in 2008 Finals, he shot 40% FG% and took TWICE the amount of shots that Gasol/Odom took COMBINED. You got that? Kobe took more shots than those 2 guys took combined.

And Each of those 2 guys were shooting over 50%

while Kobe was shooting 40%. didn't matter though, Kobe was chucking away.

He hasn't changed for shit. His team is stacked now


Fisher
Bryant
Someone/Odom
Gasol
Bynum

lmao

only the celtics and magic can rival that lineup.


P.S.

Leaders don't whine and demand trades and publicly shit all over their teammates in the off-season. LOL BYNUM

[chubster]

I don't like to see shitty people succeed

I think they should fail hard, and fall on their face so that they are forced to change and become good people

at which point, then I want them to succeed

If Dwyane Wade was a rapist, egotistical, bratty child, selfish son of a bitch, I don't give a fuck about his basketball skills. I am not cheering for a team he is on.


Bryant hasn't changed. Soon as Bryant couldn't stroke his own penis, he shat on the Lakers and demanded a trade. After all the loyalty Buss showed to him through the draft to trade for him and save him from obscurity in a Hornets uniform, to the whole Phil Jackson asking to trade Bryant twice, to the whole Shaq-Kobe feud, in the end, Kobe demanded a trade and shat all over your franchise.

he's a shitty person, and he's all about himself. He hasn't changed a bit, and I think shitty people like that should not succeed.

P.S. He's not even that great, overrated. and that's real talk.
He's the Lakers cash cow. With him, the Lakers can jack up their ticket prices and still sell out every game. I doubt Buss cares too much about how nice of a human being Bryant is as long as he keeps making him tons of money.

Phil Jackson got his last ring to cement his legacy as the best coach so he's also happy. Being the highest paid coach doesn't hurt either.

As far as the Lakers as a organization, they have nothing to complain.

So why the hell are you complaining?

[MiamiHeat]

LOL.

LOL KNICKS

nuff said

[chubster]

LOL at that garbage

anyone with 2 eyes knows that Gasol/Fisher added to the lineup caused the Lakers to go over the top in talent.

suddenly now, kobe's changed.

sureeee.

that's why in 2008 Finals, he shot 40% FG% and took TWICE the amount of shots that Gasol/Odom took COMBINED. You got that? Kobe took more shots than those 2 guys took combined.

And Each of those 2 guys were shooting over 50%

while Kobe was shooting 40%. didn't matter though, Kobe was chucking away.

He hasn't changed for shit. His team is stacked now


Fisher
Bryant
Someone/Odom
Gasol
Bynum

lmao

only the celtics and magic can rival that lineup.


P.S.

Leaders don't whine and demand trades and publicly shit all over their teammates in the off-season. LOL BYNUM
You always seem fixated in FG% as if it's the beginning and the end of all things. No, it's not.
Winning is.

Leadership is intangible so I won't argue back and forth since it can't be proved with facts anyway. But if he is such a bad leader, players would totally hate playing with him, the Lakers would implode, bickering here and there, everyone would play for contracts and PJ would demand him to be traded again
The reality? Totally opposite.

[TheManFromAcme]

I am literally fascinated by MiamiHeat's fixation with Kobe-Hate.
Really odd. Kind of spooky even.

[Mitch Kupchak]

While not enough can be said of what Pau does for our franchise, remove Gasol from the team and Pau still has a top notch backup and there is nothing to back up Kobe. Another element to note is the amount of attention and pressure that Kobe Bryant demands just being on the floor - which opens the game up for Pau, Bynum, Artest, etc. Pau is putting up MVP-esqe numbers this season, but no question that Kobe is the MVP of this team.

[ChrisRichards]

my man MiamiHeat servin all these kids :toast

[ChrisRichards]

I am literally fascinated by MiamiHeat's fixation with Kobe-Hate.
Really odd. Kind of spooky even.
I am fascinated by the Lakers fan lack of love and respect for Gasol. I mean you guys are LAKER fans right? it should'nt matter whether Kobe or Gasol is getting the glory. Its all about the rings, right?:rolleyes``


Tee hee

[Culburn369]

While not enough can be said of what Pau does for our franchise, remove Gasol from the team and Pau still has a top notch backup and there is nothing to back up Kobe. Another element to note is the amount of attention and pressure that Kobe Bryant demands just being on the floor - which opens the game up for Pau, Bynum, Artest, etc. Pau is putting up MVP-esqe numbers this season, but no question that Kobe is the MVP of this team.

You can't back up Kobe. Daddy was never backed up. Jordan was never backed up. They went from Jordan to Pete Myers. It's logistically impossible to back up that level of talent.

[iggypop123]

my man MiamiHeat servin all these kids :toast

you really logged out and logged into a troll account and went to the trouble to do that?

[Banzai]

LOL at that garbage

anyone with 2 eyes knows that Gasol/Fisher added to the lineup caused the Lakers to go over the top in talent.

suddenly now, kobe's changed.

sureeee.

that's why in 2008 Finals, he shot 40% FG% and took TWICE the amount of shots that Gasol/Odom took COMBINED. You got that? Kobe took more shots than those 2 guys took combined.

And Each of those 2 guys were shooting over 50%

while Kobe was shooting 40%. didn't matter though, Kobe was chucking away.

He hasn't changed for shit. His team is stacked now


Fisher
Bryant
Someone/Odom
Gasol
Bynum

lmao

only the celtics and magic can rival that lineup.


P.S.

Leaders don't whine and demand trades and publicly shit all over their teammates in the off-season. LOL BYNUM

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/32b260929a0df1ce47df21848ba394790da8aea6.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=4378)

[jmill]

BINGO

i think its pretty clear right now that Kobe is option 1A and Gasol is 1B. this is not Kobe's team anymore. if they win a title this year its under kobe and gasol, not Kobe and the Lakers.


headlines should be

Kobe and Gasol leads the Lakers into another title.:lobt2:


That's what's so great though. Despite your best efforts at trolling, despite the fact that you downplay Kobe's accomplishments over and over, this will never be the case. Your opinion simply has no value to the vast majority, quite frankly, you just don't matter. You will go on hating, living your life vicariously through someone far more talented than you, rooting against someone who doesn't even know you exist, while that same person will go down in history as the unquestioned leader of the team, and one of the best to ever play the game. Ouch.

[jmill]

I don't like to see shitty people succeed

I think they should fail hard, and fall on their face so that they are forced to change and become good people

at which point, then I want them to succeed

If Dwyane Wade was a rapist, egotistical, bratty child, selfish son of a bitch, I don't give a fuck about his basketball skills. I am not cheering for a team he is on.


Bryant hasn't changed. Soon as Bryant couldn't stroke his own penis, he shat on the Lakers and demanded a trade. After all the loyalty Buss showed to him through the draft to trade for him and save him from obscurity in a Hornets uniform, to the whole Phil Jackson asking to trade Bryant twice, to the whole Shaq-Kobe feud, in the end, Kobe demanded a trade and shat all over your franchise.

he's a shitty person, and he's all about himself. He hasn't changed a bit, and I think shitty people like that should not succeed.

P.S. He's not even that great, overrated. and that's real talk.

Were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly?

You seem frustrated. Maybe try not taking this stuff that serious? He's just a basketball player man, it's going to be okay, I promise. Life is harsh, hug me.