George Hill = Turnovers [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 01:11 PM

I think Tony has been the bigger problem with turnovers. Uncharacteristically for Tony he has been careless this year.

I couldn't agee more. I am at the point with TP that I can't wait for him to give the ball to someone else so as to not throw it away. Reminds me of how I felt when Bowen use to put the ball on the floor. Maybe, the trade that would make a difference is for that third PG who is assist and defense minded, first.

honestfool84

12-18-2009, 01:14 PM

PG who is assist and defense minded, first.

George Hill sure seems to fit that mindset well.

murpjf88

12-18-2009, 01:25 PM

Who ever seems to touch the ball is turning it over. Tony, unfortunately, he has the ball in his hands the most.

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 01:30 PM

TP right now is ranked number 43 in assist to turn over ratio for PGs at 1.67. He is dead last of all starting PGs this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&league=nba&split=0&sort=astto&avg=pg&qual=true&season=2010&seasontype=2&pos=pg

spurspokesman

12-18-2009, 01:36 PM

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 01:42 PM

At 3.5 turnovers per game which leads all PGs we now know where we need to point the finger.

LOL@MavsFan

12-18-2009, 01:50 PM

I love GH as much as the next Spurs fan, but is it safe to say that our increase in turnovers this season can mostly be attributed to him? Maybe Pop loves him TOO much?

Nope...Tony Parker and his 5 TOs a game contributes to that.

bobby4germany

12-18-2009, 01:54 PM

Why are you pointing fingers at Hill? Parker is the one turning it over!

kace

12-18-2009, 02:04 PM

At 3.5 turnovers per game which leads all PGs we now know where we need to point the finger.

tony is 4th in that category. still bad though.

Keep on pointing your finger wherever you want but try to bring true stats.

z0sa

12-18-2009, 02:06 PM

TP9 averages the 7th most TOs in the L.

GHill's average is tied for 134th.

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 02:09 PM

tony is 4th in that category. still bad though.

Keep on pointing your finger wherever you want but try to bring true stats.

-------------------- GP MPG AST APG TO TOPG AP48M AST/TO
43 Tony Parker, SAS 19 30.9 112 5.9 67 3.5 9.2 1.67

I guess ESPN does not have true stats.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&league=nba&split=0&sort=astto&avg=pg&qual=true&season=2010&seasontype=2&pos=pg

kace

12-18-2009, 02:10 PM

TP9 averages the 7th most TOs in the L.

GHill's average is tied for 134th.

alone that's a meaningless stat since the best players always leads this category. tha ratio ass/TO is more meaningful.

z0sa

12-18-2009, 02:11 PM

alone that's a meaningless stat since the best players always leads this category. tha ratio ass/TO is more meaningful.

Disagree.

kace

12-18-2009, 02:11 PM

-------------------- GP MPG AST APG TO TOPG AP48M AST/TO
43 Tony Parker, SAS 19 30.9 112 5.9 67 3.5 9.2 1.67

I guess ESPN does not have true stats.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&league=nba&split=0&sort=astto&avg=pg&qual=true&season=2010&seasontype=2&pos=pg

you said TP is the 1st PG in TO per game. try again.

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 02:12 PM

alone that's a meaningless stat since the best players always leads this category. tha ratio ass/TO is more meaningful.

Of, which TP is dead last in regards to starting PGs.

kace

12-18-2009, 02:14 PM

Disagree.

Nash, 2nd / LBJ, 3rd / TP, 7th/ Howard, 8th / D-will, 10th / KB, 14 th

TO per game alone doesn't say the whole thing.

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 02:14 PM

you said TP is the 1st PG in TO per game. try again.

...........and where did you read that. I said he is dead last in asst/TO ratio for starting PGs. Must be interesting arguing a point where you make up what is said by the other guy.

.................and if you look at the stats 3.5 TOs per game ties TP for the league lead in starting PGs with Westbrook. Just follow the espn link.,

kace

12-18-2009, 02:15 PM

Of, which TP is dead last in regards to starting PGs.

false again :lol CAN YOU READ ?

we dont'need stat to see TP is struggling but still, try to bring true ones. that's easy.

z0sa

12-18-2009, 02:16 PM

TO per game alone doesn't say the whole thing.

alone that's a meaningless stat

Why change your story? I completely agree it doesn't say the whole thing. I completely disagree it's a meaningless stat alone.

dbestpro

12-18-2009, 02:19 PM

false again :lol CAN YOU READ ?

we dont'need stat to see TP is struggling but still, try to bring true ones. that's easy.

I can read what you say, and I can read what is on the espn website. I think I will trust espn statistics more that I will trust your point of view.

NFGIII

12-18-2009, 02:20 PM

So the consensus is that the culprit ios TP. I agree but why? Could it be due to the fact that he has been asked to be more of a true PG this season than in any other one? And he is trying to do that but is obviously having TO problems because of it. The TP that I'm seeing this year isn't even closely related to the one that played last year or any other one, too. He is god awful as of now and that is a concern.

But what is Pop going to do about it? Should Pop rein him in and start calling the plays? Maybe even switch Mason with RJ. That would allow TP to be TP and be the score first and pass second PG with the starters. It also could help RJ get more involved via the 2nd unit and the small ball it plays, since he needs a spread floor in order to operate more efficiently.

Though I did see signs against GS that the spacing on the floor is getting better I need to see this on a consistent basis before I believe that this team has turned the corner. Anyway GS was decimated with injuries so maybe that really wasn't an indicator as to how this team is progressing.

I'm still in the "Work In Progress" mode and will just wait and see what happens. Eventually they will get it together. Hopefully that will come sooner rather than later.

:flag: believe!

kace

12-18-2009, 02:22 PM

Why change your story? I completely agree it doesn't say the whole thing. I completely disagree it's a meaningless stat alone.

read my post. i haven't chage a world. i've said alone, that doesn't say the whole thing. where did i change anything ??????????

best players, and even best playmaker PG always leads TO per game.

Indazone

12-18-2009, 02:23 PM

What happened to those 50 point games that Tony had last year? Does he suck scoringwise too?

kace

12-18-2009, 02:26 PM

...........and where did you read that. I said he is dead last in asst/TO ratio for starting PGs. Must be interesting arguing a point where you make up what is said by the other guy.

.................and if you look at the stats 3.5 TOs per game ties TP for the league lead in starting PGs with Westbrook. Just follow the espn link.,

At 3.5 turnovers per game which leads all PGs we now know where we need to point the finger.

read slowly, it's your own post above:

- you said TO (3.5) and not ratio Ass/TO
- oh and you said PG, not starting PGs (which doesn't change a lot but still)

Nash is at 3.8, Arenas at 3.7.

BatManu

12-18-2009, 02:27 PM

Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and Jefferson all have more turnovers per game than Hill.
Tony Parker leads the league with an average of 5.5 turnovers per 48 minutes.

So yeah... I'm not worried about George Hill.

kace

12-18-2009, 02:29 PM

What happened to those 50 point games that Tony had last year? Does he suck scoringwise too?

yes, he does. the only thing average is his FG %, still at 50 % and his FT (best attempts per game and best % of his career). that's pretty much all.

z0sa

12-18-2009, 02:42 PM

read my post. i haven't chage a world.

alone that's a meaningless stat

Chomag

12-18-2009, 03:08 PM

You sure your not watching number 9 and not numer 3 OP?

TDMVPDPOY

12-18-2009, 03:10 PM

stupid thread calling out ghill3? wtf

hater

12-18-2009, 03:17 PM

with his D, Hill more than makes up his Tos. The same cannot be said about Parker.

Wildcat67

12-18-2009, 04:52 PM

The Truth #6

12-18-2009, 05:46 PM

For just about every year of his career Parker improved in some part of his game, yet this year he's taken steps back in many parts of his game. His jumpshot off the pick and roll last year was absolute money, yet that's vanished this year. As has his tear drop in the lane. Now, he penetrates as far as he can and tries to get contact. Before he would elude contact and score at the rim with his ease. I don't sense that anymore. After this pattern developed he did make a better effort to get others involved, but it's been inconsistent so far.

It's like a body snatcher has taken him over. He looks tired and injured. I think Tony should sit out a few games to rest. Hopefully with more urgency, RJ can fill in the gap and assume more of an offensive role. Not likely, but something needs to change.

GHill is not ready to excel as a starting point guard but he could fill in admirably, perhaps, for a ten game stretch if needed.

Mr.Robinson

12-18-2009, 07:11 PM

Chemistry isn't there yet. Could take 35 more games before they get some.

Chieflion

12-18-2009, 07:17 PM

Parker is the one turning it over, even Chris Duhon protects the ball better than him. He needs to wake up soon.

Ibanezsr

12-18-2009, 07:17 PM

One point I think is being overlooked is that Parker is charged with a turnover when someone else fumbles one of his passes. That seems to be happening a lot this year where TP will pass to someone and they will let it go through their hands or bounce off to the other team.

The TEAM needs to cut down on turnovers as a whole. Parker is just getting the blame.

Well maybe if TP was throwing accurate passes to their hands instead of at their feet players would catch it. Such is not the case though... Then TP just puts his head down while the opposing team is off to score another 2 pts on a fast break...

exstatic

12-18-2009, 10:15 PM

I love GH as much as the next Spurs fan, but is it safe to say that our increase in turnovers this season can mostly be attributed to him? Maybe Pop loves him TOO much?

Right position, wrong player.

TP: 3.53 TOs in 31 minutes per game this season
GHill: 1.17 TOs in 24 minutes per game this season

their AST:TO ratio is about even.

Major fail, as pointed out by the reply.

Tony Parker = turnovers.

JustinJDW

12-18-2009, 10:53 PM

Tony and Manu are the guys who turnover the ball the most. We also make stupid and careless passes.

We need to value the ball more. We just gotta.

sprrs

12-19-2009, 12:52 AM

read slowly, it's your own post above:

- you said TO (3.5) and not ratio Ass/TO
- oh and you said PG, not starting PGs (which doesn't change a lot but still)

Nash is at 3.8, Arenas at 3.7.

The Ast/TO stat isn't the same as TO stat. It's not better for Tony to have a lower number than Nash or Arenas.

Mr Bones

12-19-2009, 12:49 PM

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Turnovers.jsp?season=22009&league=00&conf=west&qualified=N&position=5&splitType=9&yearsExp=-1&sortOrder=3&splitDD=All+Teams&pager.offse

Parker averages 5.5 TO per 48 minutes. Hill averages 2.3 TO per 48 minutes. If anything, lack of turnovers is one of Hill's greatest strengths... and the reason so many other teams would like to have him.

kace

12-19-2009, 01:19 PM

The Ast/TO stat isn't the same as TO stat. It's not better for Tony to have a lower number than Nash or Arenas.

what ? is there someone able to read simple stat on this thread ?

the numbers (3.5 for tony, 3.7 and 3.8 for arenas and nash)) in the post you quoted are TOs per game, not ratio ass/TO. so, the lower it is the better it is.

The two numbers that kills about tony are Ass/To and To per 48 min. they are awful.

but still, is it so difficult to read and understand simple stats like these ?

all_heart

12-19-2009, 02:03 PM

Don't you watch the games?? It's Parker and Manu.. Unfortunately it's pretty typical of Manu at least until he gets some rhythm going. Parker looks slower and tired out there. I also agree he should take a few games off.

jag

12-19-2009, 02:36 PM

alone that's a meaningless stat since the best players always leads this category. tha ratio ass/TO is more meaningful.

Good post. What is really bothering me here is that people seem to think that GHill is some kind of distributor. He's not. That's the whole problem with him.

People who say that TP isn't a true PG (which is somewhat true), are in for a big surprise if they think GHill can be the starting PG for this team. Maybe in the future he can develop those skills...but as of right now he's no where close. He's a combo guard with scoring ability and really nice D.

DPG21920

12-19-2009, 03:29 PM

Hill has been wildly inconsistent on both ends. He has certainly shown enough on the defensive end to make you think he can turn into a great perimeter defender, but it has only come in flashes.

On the offensive end, he does not turn the ball over too much if you are looking on the surface, but for someone who does not really look to take risks or create, he turns it over a fair amount. I am happy with Hill, but he has not been as good as Pop makes him out to be. But he has shown solid moments that make me believe he can be a damn good player.

lennyalderette

12-19-2009, 05:13 PM

he means tony parker, yes i know george should be turning the ball over like that after all he had to step in and learn 2 positions and run intricate spurs offense his second year out of college, but no its tony parker the 8 or 9yr veteran that doesnt want to pass the ball or penetrate he wants to hog the ball and pass it when his feet have left the ground. the same guy that will leave our team if were not championship contenders after duncan leaves

lennyalderette

12-19-2009, 05:21 PM

and no hill isnt our savior yet!!!! but if we let him develop for another 2yrs i say he'll be more than ready, and dont forget he can shoot the three which makes him a nightmare!! If you guys think about it, yes tony when he gets in his rhythm is a great scorer, but that only helps us againt a team that doesnt have a good point guard. For the rest of the teams hes allowing just as many points to be scored on him or more, so at these times it cancells out. when you have a guy like george who likes to play d and lets say they use the screen he can at least have a chance guarding the bigger player. tony doesnt have that ability, but for now hill doesnt have the ability to score like tony so i guess we just have to wait and see.

kace

12-19-2009, 07:45 PM

If you guys think about it, yes tony when he gets in his rhythm is a great scorer, but that only helps us againt a team that doesnt have a good point guard. For the rest of the teams hes allowing just as many points to be scored on him or more, so at these times it cancells out.

:rollin

that's a funny statement when you know that Tony was at his best level, both offensively and defensively, in our previous series against the suns and the hornets, two elite PG led teams. but maybe Nash and CP3 aren't good PG for you. :lol

the same guy that will leave our team if were not championship contenders after duncan leaves

:lol so what ?

Tim almost left the team for Orlando when he thought that was a better choice to win titles. He said that was even closer than most people think. Pop said he could (should ?) very well leave when Tim retires (and the title contention with him).

TP is one of the five reasons (with Tim, Pop, Manu and Bruce) why we were championship contenders for the last 7 years. He could leave after Tim if he wants, and that could even be a good thing for the Spurs to let a maybe 15M+ Parker to rebuild. who knows.

Try better to bash him, jerk.

dbestpro

12-19-2009, 11:37 PM

TP found a way to not have so many turnovers. Just shoot the ball 3-17.

sprrs

12-20-2009, 03:09 AM

what ? is there someone able to read simple stat on this thread ?

the numbers (3.5 for tony, 3.7 and 3.8 for arenas and nash)) in the post you quoted are TOs per game, not ratio ass/TO. so, the lower it is the better it is.

The two numbers that kills about tony are Ass/To and To per 48 min. they are awful.

but still, is it so difficult to read and understand simple stats like these ?

My bad, misread the post I was quoting. If you actually look at TP's AST/TO ratio, however, he's in the bottom 10 among starting point guards.