McDonald: An opening for Haislip

[duncan228]

An opening for Haislip (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2009/12/an-opening-for.html)
By Jeff McDonald

The news coming out of the AT&T Center after the Spurs beat Indiana on Saturday night was that Matt Bonner could miss up to a month with a broken right hand. Bonner will be re-evaluated Monday, at which point a timetable will be solidified, but it is evident the Spurs can expect be without their most accurate 3-point shooter for a considerable while.

This is a more significant development than you might think.

Of the five big men the Spurs suited up Saturday, only one -- Bonner -- is capable of stretching the floor to the 3-point arc. Remove him from the mix, and you're left with a collection of mid-range shooters (Antonio McDyess) and players who should never, ever shoot from outside the paint (DeJuan Blair, Theo Ratliff) to deploy next to Tim Duncan.

Bonner's absence could drastically alter how Gregg Popovich approaches his second unit. Duncan hinted as much after the game.

"He really plays some good minutes for us and changes the look on the floor," Duncan said of Bonner. "We'll have to adjust without him and hope he gets back soon."

There is one big man Popovich could tab that would not alter the Spurs' m.o. that much. Marcus Haislip has been little more than a tall man in a nice suit so far in his first season with the Spurs. Bonner's injury might be just the break, no pun intended, he was looking for.

Haislip, an intriguing offseason free-agent signee, has appeared in one game with the Spurs. His minutes have been limited by the dual facts that A) he is new, and B) Popovich has had five other big men for whom to find minutes.

Haislip, however, is now the only healthy big man on the roster with a 3-point shot in his arsenal. He's almost certain to be activated while Bonner is shelved. Might Popovich finally call his number on somewhat of a consistent basis?

It is difficult to envision Haislip approaching the 20 minutes a night Bonner was averaging. But if he can earn five or 10, and make the most of them, he has a good opportunity to earn Popovich's trust for down the road.

Bonner's injury appears to have provided a slight crack of an opening for Haislip. It is up to him to show what he can do with it.

[MaNu4Tres]

Haislip is not a NBA player. / Thread McDonald

[itzsoweezee]

i'd rather see mahinmi getting minutes.

haislip is not going to help beat the lakers. popovich needs to start giving ratliff and mahinmi minutes. we're going to get murdered by big teams.

[lennyalderette]

thats why we got him! odom, dirk, all those type of players so yes i do believe if he plays at a good level he'll help us out alot, hes way more athletic and since hes been sitting and watching plays he probably has a good understanding of whats going on out there

[murpjf88]

The opening better close quick.

[nbaman99]

is this is the same fans who called bonner suck just a few weeks ago? wow. now hesitate to give Haislip a chance to prove him self. i wander what we going to hear when bonner returns and Haislip's minutes get reduced again. Guess we have to just wait and c.

[SpurCharger]

I Hope Marcus Get His Shot And Plays Extremely well!

[Ice009]

I want Haislip to get a chance.

I don't know what all you people are on about that do not even want to give him a chance.

[Buddy Holly]

There are more and more severely challenged posters signing up at Spurstalk thinking they know an ounce of basketball when they know jackshit.

[jag]

Not sure why giving Haislip a shot is a bad thing...

[024]

looks like ratliff will be getting some time again. haislip might get some minutes but i doubt he'll get more than 10 minutes.

also, no way mahinmi or haislip will ever see minutes in the playoffs. mahinmi and haislip have not even proven they can suit up and sit on the bench yet. yeah, lets have "i foul every two seconds" mahinmi and "i can't beat out bonner for a roster spot" haislip play against the elite bigs of playoff contenders. stop wishing for a miracle breakout. spurs' only hope is that bonner doesn't welt under the pressure and mcdyess + ratliff are 100% playoff time.

[benefactor]

Any sort of extended dose of Ian or Haislip will make the haters beg for Bonner to get well.

[Big P]

Give Ian some burn!

[Bender]

'd rather see mahinmi getting minutes.
the whole point of the article was the need for a big who spreads the floor with a 3-pt shot. Does Ian spread the floor? I doubt it.
Too bad haislip got no playing time during the season so far. If he had gotten a little more playing time, he wouldn't be so new right now.

[DPG21920]

FML. I don't want to rag on Haislip, 1) Because he probably won't get that much burn anyways, but primarily because 2) I have not seen him play too much against NBA level competition.

What I have seen does not look promising at all.

[ElNono]

I don't want bigs that spread the floor. I want bigs that rebound the ball, play decent defense around the rim, block shots and help Tim protect the paint. This would be a good opportunity to see if we have any of that or if we should be looking somewhere else for it.

[itzsoweezee]

I don't want bigs that spread the floor. I want bigs that rebound the ball, play decent defense around the rim, block shots and help Tim protect the paint. This would be a good opportunity to see if we have any of that or if we should be looking somewhere else for it.

At least there's one rational person on spurstalk.

[SenorSpur]

I don't want bigs that spread the floor. I want bigs that rebound the ball, play decent defense around the rim, block shots and help Tim protect the paint. This would be a good opportunity to see if we have any of that or if we should be looking somewhere else for it.

Couldn't have said it any better. :tu

[Buddy Holly]

Not sure why giving Haislip a shot is a bad thing...

It's not. There's just a lot of idiots posting now.

[Manufan909]

I don't want bigs that spread the floor. I want bigs that rebound the ball, play decent defense around the rim, block shots and help Tim protect the paint. This would be a good opportunity to see if we have any of that or if we should be looking somewhere else for it.

Theo averaging 10 minutes a game whie playing every game left this year would be nice, but I still would advocate Haislip and Ian getting a chance.

[DPG21920]

If he was better than Bonner, whom evidently sucks, it would not take a Bonner injury just so he could be activated, let alone getting time.

[ElNono]

Is Haislip going to be the next Pops Mensah-Bonsu?

[DPG21920]

If Haislip can come in and bring the energy/rebounding/blocks that Pops brought, I would be happy.

[sa_kid20]

FML. I don't want to rag on Haislip, 1) Because he probably won't get that much burn anyways, but primarily because 2) I have not seen him play too much against NBA level competition.

What I have seen does not look promising at all.

Well in the preseason he looked pretty bad. When he was played at the 4 he was getting pushed around by the opponents bigs and when he was played at the 3 he missed just about every jumper he took, and defensively he looked pretty lost. I know basing things on the preseason may not mean a lot in the big scheme of things but I'm just sayin. . .

[thispego]

It's not. There's just a lot of idiots posting now.

:tu

[thOOdee]

I don't want bigs that spread the floor. I want bigs that rebound the ball, play decent defense around the rim, block shots and help Tim protect the paint. This would be a good opportunity to see if we have any of that or if we should be looking somewhere else for it.

same thoughts...this just may be the break the team needs. Bonner is a great 3 point specialist but mechanical slow rotating defense does not equal championship. I've notice recently that every time he plays around 24 minutes they lose. I JUST HOPE ITS NOT ALL SMALL BALL FROM NOW ON.

I wouldnt be surprised if pop doesnt give ian, theo, or haislip any minutes.

[DPG21920]

:tu

You think getting Haislip on the court over Bonner is a good thing? Or you just think given the circumstances, getting the guy some burn is the best option?

[murpjf88]

There are more and more severely challenged posters signing up at Spurstalk thinking they know an ounce of basketball when they know jackshit.

You must be talking about yourself. Put in haislip and watch the to's mount.

[angelbelow]

I think it'll be very interesting to see how Haislip or Ian take advantage of this situation.

[Chomag]

the whole point of the article was the need for a big who spreads the floor with a 3-pt shot. Does Ian spread the floor? I doubt it.
Too bad haislip got no playing time during the season so far. If he had gotten a little more playing time, he wouldn't be so new right now.

I'll never understand this... why the hell do you need a big that shoot 3s? Name how many elite teams one the championship with a 3 point shooting not counting Robert Horry because he was just a freak of nature. You have 3 other players on the floor that can shoot the outside shot. The bigs need to be there to play clean up and defend the paint. Euro (centers and PF shooting 3s) ball has destroyed this but show me how often it has been proven successfully at a high level.

When the playoffs start teams defend the 3. Ever wonder why players like Bonner just disappear? Honestly its not a coincidence.

Timmy can shoot the 3 (even winning the spurs 3pt contest lol) just as well as some of our guards but he knows his roll and leaves it to the guards and small forward.

Pop's never ending quest to find a Horry replacement will never happen because Horry was a one of a kind player.

[Chomag]

It's not. There's just a lot of idiots posting now.

There are some idiots here, but lately possibly just as many I'm better then you attitude vets that post nothing but to belittle and call names like you would in the 3rd grade.

Seriously dude, thats all you have posted here. I doubt you will care, or read this because I'm just another one of those that don't have 10k+ posts

Sorry to be calling you out here but you are definitely not the only one.

[DPG21920]

It is not so much that you need a big to "hit 3's", but you do need a big that can stretch defenses and space the floor. It is about spacing, not about three-pointers. Bonners range just happens to extend that far.

Haislip was not getting time before because he did not deserve it.

[Chomag]

It is not so much that you need a big to "hit 3's", but you do need a big that can stretch defenses and space the floor. It is about spacing, not about three-pointers. Bonners range just happens to extend that far.

Haislip was not getting time before because he did not deserve it.

But what about at a high playoff level? What team has ever been successful employing this? From what it seems to me a big spreading the floor doesn't make much a difference when teams are playing defense at their top level.

[DPG21920]

Plenty of teams. Lakers have Pau Gasol who can extend out to 20 feet. Robinson could spread the floor. Rasheed Wallace with Detroit. Garnett with Celtics.

Defense is important, but all of those guys provide spacing on the offensive end as well.

[ElNono]

It is not so much that you need a big to "hit 3's", but you do need a big that can stretch defenses and space the floor. It is about spacing, not about three-pointers. Bonners range just happens to extend that far.

You mean like when Duncan played with DRob, Rasho and Nazr?. What spacing did they provide?

[ElNono]

Plenty of teams. Lakers have Pau Gasol who can extend out to 20 feet. Robinson could spread the floor. Rasheed Wallace with Detroit. Garnett with Celtics.

Defense is important, but all of those guys provide spacing on the offensive end as well.

That's all good. But Gasol can average 20 boards not because he's parking his ass 20 feet out. Garnett is a jump shooter himself and can play excellent defense. Wallace has actually regressed considerably SINCE he started jacking up threes, and most Pistons and Celtics fans can attest to that.

[DPG21920]

That's all good. But Gasol can average 20 boards not because he's parking his ass 20 feet out. Garnett is a jump shooter himself and can play excellent defense. Wallace has actually regressed considerably SINCE he started jacking up threes, and most Pistons and Celtics fans can attest to that.

And? They have all won titles with guys who can space the floor. If they just play good defense, sometimes that is not good enough. Having guys to space the floor makes everything easier.

Gasol cannot average 20 boards :lol. Dice should be able to do the trick. Solid boards, defense and spacing.

[DPG21920]

You mean like when Duncan played with DRob, Rasho and Nazr?. What spacing did they provide?

Rob was a very solid mid-range shooter over time. If you so happen to have a pairing of Duncan/Robinson, then yeah, offensive spacing might not be so important because the defense is so great.

But that does not happen all of the time and most of the time you need spacing with defense.

Also, I can give you just as many examples of teams (like I already did) that contradict what you say. Don't act like because Tim won with those guys like that means everyone has.

[ElNono]

And? They have all won titles with guys who can space the floor. If they just play good defense, sometimes that is not good enough. Having guys to space the floor makes everything easier.

Are you implying that Bynum spaces the floor for Gasol?
Or that Perkins spaces the floor for Garnett?
Or that Ben Wallace spaced the floor for Rasheed?

What you just wrote makes no sense.


Gasol cannot average 20 boards :lol. Dice should be able to do the trick. Solid boards, defense and spacing.

Well, he did grab 78 in the last 4 games. My point is, he won't be grabbing double digit boards by sitting 20 feet out. That just doesn't happen.

[ElNono]

Rob was a very solid mid-range shooter over time. If you so happen to have a pairing of Duncan/Robinson, then yeah, offensive spacing might not be so important because the defense is so great.

DRob was the perfect complement because he had a post game also and much like the Lakers today, both players on the front commanded a lot of attention. Insinuating that DRob was supposed to play 20 feet out of the rim so Tim could have room to operate is preposterous.


Also, I can give you just as many examples of teams (like I already did) that contradict what you say. Don't act like because Tim won with those guys like that means everyone has.

What teams? You still haven't. The only other team I can think of is the early 2000 Lakers, who, not surprisingly, had Robert Horry playing the 3 point shooter big.

[DPG21920]

Are you implying that Bynum spaces the floor for Gasol?
Or that Perkins spaces the floor for Garnett?
Or that Ben Wallace spaced the floor for Rasheed?

What you just wrote makes no sense.



Well, he did grabbed 78 in the last 4 games. My point is, he won't be grabbing double digit boards by sitting 20 feet out. That just doesn't happen.

I am implying that all teams that win titles have a low-post defensive presence and on offense, someone has to space the floor. If you have 2 Perkins on the Celtics instead of KG/Perkins, sure the defense would be just as solid but the offense would suffer without Garnett's spacing. It makes perfect sense and you are just confusing yourself.

My point is that there is such a thing as defensive rebounding. That has nothing to do with spacing the floor on offense.

[DPG21920]

DRob was the perfect complement because he had a post game also and much like the Lakers today, both players on the front commanded a lot of attention. Insinuating that DRob was supposed to play 20 feet out of the rim so Tim could have room to operate is preposterous.

I think you are having a language barrier, or comprehension problem. Where did I say that Drob was supposed to play 20 feet out? I said having the ability to do so opens things up on offense and teams need that.


What teams? You still haven't. The only other team I can think of is the early 2000 Lakers, who, not surprisingly, had Robert Horry playing the 3 point shooter big.

Lakers with Pau won and he is a guy that can shoot from 20 feet. The Celtics with KG. The Pistions with Wallace. The Lakers with Horry. All of those teams won titles and they had big men who are capable of spacing the floor because of their abilities to shoot.

[Chomag]

Plenty of teams. Lakers have Pau Gasol who can extend out to 20 feet. Robinson could spread the floor. Rasheed Wallace with Detroit. Garnett with Celtics.

Defense is important, but all of those guys provide spacing on the offensive end as well.

These guys exept Sheed also post up, do slashing moves to the basket and defend. Sheed defends. But these guys like Elnono says play along side Perkens, and bynem. Even playing with post up only players like these they don't just dont camp outside to spread the floor.

[ElNono]

I am implying that all teams that win titles have a low-post defensive presence and on offense, someone has to space the floor. If you have 2 Perkins on the Celtics instead of KG/Perkins, sure the defense would be just as solid but the offense would suffer without Garnett's spacing. It makes perfect sense and you are just confusing yourself.

I understand what you mean. My point still stands: Duncan doesn't need a 3 point shooting big to space the floor for him in order to operate in the paint. Something he has done with plenty of other players that knew what to do and did not involve parking their asses in the 3 point line.


My point is that there is such a thing as defensive rebounding. That has nothing to do with spacing the floor on offense.

I was speaking of offensive boards. Gasol grabs a lot of offensive boards and doesn't do that by parking his ass 20 feet out.

[DPG21920]

These guys exept Sheed also post up, do slashing moves to the basket and defend. Sheed defends. But these guys like Elnono says play along side Perkens, and bynem. Even playing with post up only players like these they don't just dont camp outside to spread the floor.

That is not the point. It is about having the threat and ability to space the floor.

Spurs cannot just magically make good defensive big man appear out of no where. If that is the case, the offense has to have spacing in order to offset some defensive deficiencies.

These guys play along side Duncan. He needs space. It would be great to have someone else that can post up and play outside, but that is not the case. The real point is that you need guys that have the ability to space the floor. If Pau and KG could not do that, their teams would be much worse off. That is what makes the Lakers and the Celtics the best, they have those types of players.

[ChumpDumper]

Where did I say that Drob was supposed to play 20 feet out?He was supposed to play in the key most of the time, as was Rasho.

No mention of Horry?

[DPG21920]

I understand what you mean. My point still stands: Duncan doesn't need a 3 point shooting big to space the floor for him in order to operate in the paint. Something he has done with plenty of other players that knew what to do and did not involve parking their asses in the 3 point line.

I said in my post it is not about 3-point shooting. Dice is not a 3-point shooter. Pau is not a 3-point shooter. KG is not a 3-point shooter. But they all provide spacing with their shooting. They can do other things as well, but they all have the ability to spread out.




I was speaking of offensive boards. Gasol grabs a lot of offensive boards and doesn't do that by parking his ass 20 feet out.

Spurs have never really grabbed a ton of offensive boards. It is a philosophy they have. They get back on defense. Gasol does crash the boards offensively but it helps when Kobe is drawing tons of coverage and people leave him.

[DPG21920]

He was supposed to play in the key most of the time, as was Rasho.

No mention of Horry?

What do you mean?

[ElNono]

I think you are having a language barrier, or comprehension problem. Where did I say that Drob was supposed to play 20 feet out? I said having the ability to do so opens things up on offense and teams need that.


Rob was a very solid mid-range shooter over time.



Lakers with Pau won and he is a guy that can shoot from 20 feet. The Celtics with KG. The Pistions with Wallace. The Lakers with Horry. All of those teams won titles and they had big men who are capable of spacing the floor because of their abilities to shoot.

Please... Pau lives under the basket. He very rarely will take a 20 foot shot unless he absolutely has to. He's nothing like a player such as Dirk. KG will post up his man also, he just doesn't have a hook shot, and instead will take a turnaround jumper. Wallace did not shoot three pointers when they won it all in Detroit. Under Larry Brown, he was a complete post-up guy. Go look at the 2005 Finals tape and tell me how many threes he took in that series.

The reality is that while they obviously don't pile on each other, there's a huge difference between sitting your ass at the 3 point line and being within reach of the basket. Measurable difference.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you mean?Spacing.

[Blackjack]

So does spacing only apply to the center and power forward positions and not have anything to do with those who surround those positions; spacing-in-a-vacuum?

[Chomag]

That is not the point. It is about having the threat and ability to space the floor.

Spurs cannot just magically make good defensive big man appear out of no where. If that is the case, the offense has to have spacing in order to offset some defensive deficiencies.

These guys play along side Duncan. He needs space. It would be great to have someone else that can post up and play outside, but that is not the case. The real point is that you need guys that have the ability to space the floor. If Pau and KG could not do that, their teams would be much worse off. That is what makes the Lakers and the Celtics the best, they have those types of players.

Doesnt Timmy have the ability to hit an outside Shot at a good rate just as much as paul or KG? Yet Paul plays with Bynum just fine. Timmy imo can spread the floor just as much if not more then a 3pt shooting big ever could.

[DPG21920]

Spacing.

I know, I meant what did you mean by the comment. Do you not agree with the spacing philosophy? Horry has been mentioned, but to make a point about it not being simple "3-point" shooting, I am mentioning teams that have won titles with guys who have the ability to space the floor with their shooting such as Pau, KG, Wallace,...

[ChumpDumper]

I know, I meant what did you mean by the comment. Do you not agree with the spacing philosophy? Horry has been mentioned, but to make a point about it not being simple "3-point" shooting, I am mentioning teams that have won titles with guys who have the ability to space the floor with their shooting such as Pau, KG, Wallace,...I do agree with the spacing argument; that's why I mentioned where Robinson and Rasho usually set up.

[DPG21920]

Please... Pau lives under the basket. He very rarely will take a 20 foot shot unless he absolutely has to. He's nothing like a player such as Dirk. KG will post up his man also, he just doesn't have a hook shot, and instead will take a turnaround jumper. Wallace did not shoot three pointers when they won it all in Detroit. Under Larry Brown, he was a complete post-up guy. Go look at the 2005 Finals tape and tell me how many threes he took in that series.

The reality is that while they obviously don't pile on each other, there's a huge difference between sitting your ass at the 3 point line and being within reach of the basket. Measurable difference.

Once again, I said it is not about 3-point shooting. You keep going back to that presumably because of Bonner. That just so happens to be Bonner's game and range. But the Spurs like Dice, even though he does not shoot 3's because he has a reliable mid-range game amongst other things.

I agree you don't need a 3-PT shooter (from a big man perspective) to win, but it certainly helps offensive spacing when you have 2 bigs and one can spread the floor.

[ElNono]

I know, I meant what did you mean by the comment. Do you not agree with the spacing philosophy? Horry has been mentioned, but to make a point about it not being simple "3-point" shooting, I am mentioning teams that have won titles with guys who have the ability to space the floor with their shooting such as Pau, KG, Wallace,...

I find it hilarious you really think those guys are shooters... I mean, ALL of those guys operate within 10 feet of the basket. At least they all did when they won it all. Will they take a long shot here and there? Sure, just like TD does. But that's very far from their bread and butter, which is to backup their man inside the paint and finish.

[DPG21920]

Doesnt Timmy have the ability to hit an outside Shot at a good rate just as much as paul or KG? Yet Paul plays with Bynum just fine. Timmy imo can spread the floor just as much if not more then a 3pt shooting big ever could.

Yes, but unlike the other bigs on the Spurs, Tim also plays down low. His shooting from 15-20 feet has become more prevalent in recent years.

[ElNono]

I agree you don't need a 3-PT shooter (from a big man perspective) to win, but it certainly helps offensive spacing when you have 2 bigs and one can spread the floor.

This was easily solvable when we had Rasho and Nazr by simply calling the play and making sure players executed.

[ElNono]

And, BTW. When we had Rasho/Nazr/Oberto/DRob, they all played weak side under the basket on 4-down. Plenty of spacing for Duncan to operate looks like. And they all could go for a putback.

[DPG21920]

I find it hilarious you really think those guys are shooters... I mean, ALL of those guys operate within 10 feet of the basket. At least they all did when they won it all. Will they take a long shot here and there? Sure, just like TD does. But that's very far from their bread and butter, which is to backup their man inside the paint and finish.

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

KG took way more shots outside the paint than he did in it.


Pau has taken a ton of shots at the rim, but that is more because of who he plays with. Still, point remains that if he did not have the ability to spread out, his game and the team would suffer.

[DPG21920]

And, BTW. When we had Rasho/Nazr/Oberto/DRob, they all played weak side under the basket on 4-down. Plenty of spacing for Duncan to operate looks like. And they all could go for a putback.

So are you just comparing these guys with Bonner? Or do you disagree you need a big (whether or not he shoots 3's) to space the floor?

[ChumpDumper]

And, BTW. When we had Rasho/Nazr/Oberto/DRob, they all played weak side under the basket on 4-down.Rasho definitely played above the free throw line during that play. Playing under the basket would pretty much guarantee a two-big double team on Duncan.

[Chomag]

Yes, but unlike the other bigs on the Spurs, Tim also plays down low. His shooting from 15-20 feet has become more prevalent in recent years.

Exactly why I think spurs should give up trying to find a 3pt outside shooting Big and go with a defencive one. KG and Paul can shoot outside yes but they also post down low, but the still manage to be able to do this just fine with a low post only player such as Bynum and Perkens.

You yourself were using these players as an example. If Paul can spread the floor and still do his low post thing even alongside of a lowpost player then so can Tim.

[DPG21920]

Exactly why I think spurs should give up trying to find a 3pt outside shooting Big and go with a defencive one. KG and Paul can shoot outside yes but they also post down low, but the still manage to be able to do this just fine with a low post only player such as Bynum and Perkens.

You yourself were using these players as an example. If Paul can spread the floor and still do his low post thing even alongside of a lowpost player then so can Tim.

Where do you find these players that can do what KG/Pau/Wallace...do? Just because Bonner cannot post up effectively does not mean that his abilities aren't helpful. He shoots the 3 at an extremely high percentage and that is the best thing in basketball offensively.

[ElNono]

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

KG took way more shots outside the paint than he did in it.

http://i49.tinypic.com/34zhte0.png

Come again?


Pau has taken a ton of shots at the rim, but that is more because of who he plays with. Still, point remains that if he did not have the ability to spread out, his game and the team would suffer.

Bynum?

[ChumpDumper]

You yourself were using these players as an example. If Paul can spread the floor and still do his low post thing even alongside of a lowpost player then so can Tim.Of course, usually that is done as a high pick for Parker or Manu. If you are really arguing that Duncan needs to turn into DRob circa 1999, then who is going to be Duncan from that time?

[ElNono]

So are you just comparing these guys with Bonner? Or do you disagree you need a big (whether or not he shoots 3's) to space the floor?

I disagree that Tim requires a jump shooter big next to him in order to be able to operate in the paint, something that overused these days.
I further argue that is a detriment to the team to have a guy cannot rebound and defend inside the paint at a good rate.

[Chomag]

Where do you find these players that can do what KG/Pau/Wallace...do? Just because Bonner cannot post up effectively does not mean that his abilities aren't helpful. He shoots the 3 at an extremely high percentage and that is the best thing in basketball offensively.

What player can we find? How about a player named TD?

The 3 pointer is not the most effective thing in offense. The 3pt shoot is actually the lowest % shot to take in the game.

[DPG21920]

http://i49.tinypic.com/34zhte0.png

Come again?

Did you not look at the chart? He shot just as much from outside as inside.




Bynum?

Kobe

[ElNono]

Rasho definitely played above the free throw line during that play. Playing under the basket would pretty much guarantee a two-big double team on Duncan.

True. I'm thinking Oberto and Nazr. Oberto being the one recipient of many bunnies when the two bigs doubled.

[DPG21920]

What player can we find? How about a player named TD?

The 3 pointer is not the most effective thing in offense. The 3pt shoot is actually the lowest % shot to take in the game.

Once again, if you take Duncan out, who goes in? Who takes Tim's place?

I did not say the 3-pointer is the most effective thing. I said that having someone who shoots the three at a very high rate is the most effective and efficient thing in offense.

[ChumpDumper]

http://i49.tinypic.com/34zhte0.png

Come again?279 > 158


Bynum?Odom, if we are talking about big men.

[ChumpDumper]

True. I'm thinking Oberto and Nazr. Oberto being the one recipient of many bunnies when the two bigs doubled.Not that many. I also do remember Nazr's parking in the key and at least trying to catapult in jumpers from there. Of course, Malik sat out there a lot too.

[ElNono]

Did you not look at the chart? He shot 279 shots from outside the paint compared to 158 inside. That is more.

You don't see what is KG's bread and butter in that chart? We already argued that he will take the occasional long shot.


Kobe

We're talking big man spacing here. If you want to move the goalposts, then we can do that too.

[Chomag]

Of course, usually that is done as a high pick for Parker or Manu. If you are really arguing that Duncan needs to turn into DRob circa 1999, then who is going to be Duncan from that time?

Just becuase it's something Tim is used to does not mean he can't do it without. IMO Tim's game such as KG and Paul as an example would be just fine even if there is not a 3pt or an outside threat shooting big with him to spread the floor. Since Tim spreads the floor better himself then anyone else on this team.

[DPG21920]

You also cannot weight so heavily the fact that the Spurs were able to win with Nazr/Oberto because that was one of the weaker title teams (talent wise). Just because that happened, does not mean it would not be beneficial for Oberto to have a jumper like a McDyess.

[ChumpDumper]

You don't see what is KG's bread and butter in that chart?Midrange shooting? Sure.

[ElNono]

Not that many. I also do remember Nazr's parking in the key and at least trying to catapult in jumpers from there. Of course, Malik sat out there a lot too.

Malik had a fairly reliable jumper, and he could board very well for his size.

[ChumpDumper]

...

[DPG21920]

You don't see what is KG's bread and butter in that chart? We already argued that he will take the occasional long shot.



We're talking big man spacing here. If you want to move the goalposts, then we can do that too.

Taking more shots outside than inside is not occasional :lol, that is the norm.

Kobe draws attention like a big man. You are just grasping as semantics and trying to turn a single example (Tim winning with Oberto) into the norm.

[ElNono]

Midrange shooting? Sure.

Look again...

Midrange shooting hot zones: 47/92 (.508)
Paint hot zone: 93/158 (.589)

[ChumpDumper]

You also cannot weight so heavily the fact that the Spurs were able to win with Nazr/Oberto because that was one of the weaker title teams (talent wise).Horry played more than either of those players in their respective finals.

[ElNono]

You also cannot weight so heavily the fact that the Spurs were able to win with Nazr/Oberto because that was one of the weaker title teams (talent wise). Just because that happened, does not mean it would not be beneficial for Oberto to have a jumper like a McDyess.

We won 2 separate titles with Nazr (2005) and Oberto (2007)...

You're probably talking about the 2007 team... yet that team played better defense than our current roster

[DPG21920]

I am just saying he is trying to weight Oberto/Nazr much heavier than he should to suit his argument.

[ElNono]

Kobe draws attention like a big man. You are just grasping as semantics and trying to turn a single example (Tim winning with Oberto) into the norm.

You're trying to turn one example (Tim winning with Horry) into the norm. You still haven't explained how TD was able to operate with the spacing provided by Rasho, Nazr and DRob. All players that played inside the paint.

[ChumpDumper]

Look again...

Midrange shooting hot zones: 47/92 (.508)
Paint hot zone: 93/158 (.589):lol What is your definition of midrange?

Mine is pretty much anything inside the three point line since that graph has pretty large zones.

[ElNono]

I am just saying he is trying to weight Oberto/Nazr much heavier than he should to suit his argument.

Allright, let's take Nazr and Oberto out, for sake of argument.
How about Rasho? How did he space the floor for Duncan?

[Chomag]

Like I said a few posts ago, I'm just explaining why I think the whole must have an Euro type big in the NBA to me has been overatted. With the other 3 players on the floor to take care of the outside shot it's realy not that important as some have made it to be. Again this is just how I see it.

When teams playing defence at a high level during the playoffs there are no easy shoots, and these type of bigs are known to disappear.

[ElNono]

:lol What is your definition of midrange?

Mine is pretty much anything inside the three point line since that graph has pretty large zones.

That's my definition as well, and exactly why I left out the sole 3 pointer he made. We're talking his bread and butter here, in other words, where's he's most effective. Which would be the zones marked with RED in that graph. Come on Chump, do you really need me to explain color-coding to you?

[DPG21920]

You're trying to turn one example (Tim winning with Horry) into the norm. You still haven't explained how TD was able to operate with the spacing provided by Rasho, Nazr and DRob. All players that played inside the paint.

No. Tim with Horry, Bynum with Pau, Perkins with KG, Wallace with Wallace. Those are all examples that support spacing.

Chump and I have already explained the Duncan with Rasho/Drob/Nazr thing. But your only rebuttal is that KG, even though he shoots more from outside than in the paint, lives in the paint.

[ChumpDumper]

You're trying to turn one example (Tim winning with Horry) into the norm. You still haven't explained how TD was able to operate with the spacing provided by Rasho, Nazr and DRob. All players that played inside the paint.They mostly camped out in the key.

And winning with Horry was the norm since he played the most minutes of any big man outside of Duncan the last two finals wins.

[ElNono]

No. Tim with Horry, Bynum with Pau, Perkins with KG, Wallace with Wallace. Those are all examples that support spacing.

Chump and I have already explained the Duncan with Rasho/Drob/Nazr thing.

You did? Where is that?

[DPG21920]

That's my definition as well, and exactly why I left out the sole 3 pointer he made. We're talking his bread and butter here, in other words, where's he's most effective. Which would be the zones marked with RED in that graph. Come on Chump, do you really need me to explain color-coding to you?

Are you saying that because he shoots a better % by the rim than from outside the paint, that is his bread and butter? Because if so, that is virtually every players bread and butter.

[ElNono]

They mostly camped out in the key.

Exactly. Which completely destroys DPG21920's spacing argument.


And winning with Horry was the norm since he played the most minutes of any big man outside of Duncan the last two finals wins.

Don't disagree. Horry was a special player though. I think everybody here agrees with that.

[pjjrfan]

Give the guy a chance, let him show what he's got If he can defend and rebound, he will definitly help. I don't think anyone expects him or anyone else to take Bonners scoring. That will have to come from others, my worst fear is that we will see more small ball.

[Chomag]

Exactly. Which completely destroys DPG21920's spacing argument.



Don't disagree. Horry was a special player though. I think everybody here agrees with that.

Yep thats why I said that the whole Pop's quest to find another Horry replacement will never end because he was one of a kind type of player. :lol

[ElNono]

Are you saying that because he shoots a better % by the rim than from outside the paint, that is his bread and butter? Because if so, that is virtually every players bread and butter.

No, I'm saying that the RED zones are where he is most effective. That is his bread and butter. Which turns out to be way more inside the paint than outside of it.

[ChumpDumper]

That's my definition as well, and exactly why I left out the sole 3 pointer he made. We're talking his bread and butter here, in other words, where's he's most effective. Which would be the zones marked with RED in that graph. Come on Chump, do you really need me to explain color-coding to you?Seriously? You're going to throw out 180 shots because they aren't the color you want them to be?

Whether you like them or not, he took those shots.

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Which completely destroys DPG21920's spacing argument.



Don't disagree. Horry was a special player though. I think everybody here agrees with that.

No. Chump and I say that despite the fact those players did not space floor, it did not matter because Horry did and he played.

Then, when you take KG, Pau, Wallace into consideration it actually supports the argument.

You are taking one thing and attributing another thing to it when it does not apply.

[DPG21920]

No, I'm saying that the RED zones are where he is most effective. That is his bread and butter. Which turns out to be way more inside the paint than outside of it.

Everyone is more effective inside the paint for the most part. That does not mean it is their bread and butter. Bread and butter refers to what they go to most often, and in KG's case, that is the outside the paint jump shot.

[ChumpDumper]

Exactly. Which completely destroys DPG21920's spacing argument.Not at all. That provides more spacing than your idea of playing both big men under the basket.


Don't disagree. Horry was a special player though. I think everybody here agrees with that.Sure, but somehow Bonner usually ends up with the highest +/- on the team.

Why is that?

[Chomag]

I ask why can't Tim be the Paul or KG of this team instead of needing one? You are using Paul and KG here as an example of players that make spacing. You may say that Tim needs the floor spread to be able to work near the paint yet these players seem to be able to be able to be both a floor spacer but yet still a low post threat for their team.

Tim Does not need a floor spacer from a big when he can space it himself.

[DPG21920]

I ask why can't Tim be the Paul or KG of this team? You are using Paul and KG here as an example of players that make spacing. You may say that Tim needs the floor spread to be able to work near the paint yet these players seem to be able to be able to be both a floor spacer but yet still a low post threat for their team.

Tim Does not need a floor spacer from a big when he can space it himself.

Then who occupies the inside game where Tim normally does?

[ElNono]

Seriously? You're going to throw out 180 shots because they aren't the color you want them to be?

Do you know why that chart is colored at all? This is not about the amount of shots he took, but where is he effective taking shots.


Whether you like them or not, he took those shots.

And TD could take 100 20 footers at a 40% rate and that doesn't mean that shot is his bread and butter, merely because he took them.

Don't be disingenuous, I know you're smarter than that.

[ChumpDumper]

I ask why can't Tim be the Paul or KG of this team? You are using Paul and KG here as an example of players that make spacing. You may say that Tim needs the floor spread to be able to work near the paint yet these players seem to be able to be able to be both a floor spacer but yet still a low post threat for their team.

Tim Does not need a floor spacer from a big when he can space it himself.If you are spacing the floor, you aren't threatening from the low post.

As I said, I'd be fine if Tim became DRob -- we just need another Tim.

[ElNono]

Not at all. That provides more spacing than your idea of playing both big men under the basket.

None of them played 20 feet outside the rim, which was DPG's theory.
And I didn't posit any idea. I merely mentioned that we played with bigs under the basket and Duncan was just as effective. That's a fact, not arguable.


Sure, but somehow Bonner usually ends up with the highest +/- on the team.
Why is that?

He plays with good lineups?

[Chomag]

Then who occupies the inside game where Tim normally does?

All the reason why I think Spurs would be better off and stop with trying to find a 3pt shooting big and try to go with a bruser along side of Tim. Paul and KG as you have mentioned dont need a 3 point shooting big since they are th eones that spread the floor. Tim can o this just as well as these guys. He does not need a big that i a floor spacer since he is one himself.

[ElNono]

Everyone is more effective inside the paint for the most part. That does not mean it is their bread and butter. Bread and butter refers to what they go to most often, and in KG's case, that is the outside the paint jump shot.

Bread and butter is what they're most effective at. Talk about lexical problems and moving the goalposts.

[ChumpDumper]

None of them played 20 feet outside the rim, which was DPG's theory.They didn't play under the basket either, which was your theory.


And I didn't posit any idea. I merely mentioned that we played with bigs under the basket and Duncan was just as effective. That's a fact, not arguable.Except they were in the key most of the time. That's a fact, not arguable.


He plays with good lineups?What makes them good lineups?

[ElNono]

As I said, I'd be fine if Tim became DRob -- we just need another Tim.

But then who will win the +/- championship?

[Chomag]

If you are spacing the floor, you aren't threatening from the low post.

As I said, I'd be fine if Tim became DRob -- we just need another Tim.

Are Paul and KG not a low post threat?

[ChumpDumper]

Are Paul and KG not a low post threat?Not when they are spacing the floor.

[ChumpDumper]

But then who will win the +/- championship?Who will be the next Tim?

[Chomag]

Not when they are spacing the floor.

Then if they are the bigs that were used to space the floor for their teams how did they manage to also be a threat in the low post?

[ElNono]

They didn't play under the basket either, which was your theory.

They did. Not all the time, but they did.


Except they were in the key most of the time. That's a fact, not arguable.

'most of the time' being the key. When they were within 20 feet, Duncan was still effective. Fact. And that's been my point all along.


What makes them good lineups?

That the entire lineup has a match up advantage with the opposition at that given point in time.

[ChumpDumper]

Then if they are the bigs that were used to space the floor for their teams how did they manage to also be a threat in the low post?They usually play the post while someone else spaces the floor.

Is it that difficult to understand?

[ChumpDumper]

They did. Not all the time, but they did.Everyone plays under the basket at some point.


'most of the time' being the key. When they were within 20 feet, Duncan was still effective. Fact. And that's been my point all along.20 feet is not under the basket.


That the entire lineup has a match up advantage with the opposition at that given point in time.Why does it have an advantage?

[Chomag]

They usually play the post while someone else spaces the floor.

Is it that difficult to understand?

What other bigs were used to spread the floor for the lakers or Boston or even detroit on their championship runs?

I know sheed is now on Boston but that still doesnt prove anything since it still shows how unproven it is at a high level.

[ChumpDumper]

What other bigs were used to spread the floor for the lakers or Boston or even detroit on their championship runs?You seriously don't know what other big man spaced the floor for the Lakers?

This conversation is over.

[jag]

Stupid bigs that space the floor...the Spurs wont win anything trying to use bigs that shoot from the outside.

http://www.b12partners.net/mt/images/Horry%20aka%20Big_Shot_Rob.jpg

[Chomag]

Stupid bigs that space the floor...the Spurs wont win anything trying to use bigs that shoot from the outside.

http://www.b12partners.net/mt/images/Horry%20aka%20Big_Shot_Rob.jpg

How many Horry's have their been in the NBA. lol

[jag]

How many Horry's have their been in the NBA. lol

I assume this is a serious question because it's obvious you don't watch the NBA:


What other bigs were used to spread the floor for the lakers or Boston or even detroit on their championship runs?

[ElNono]

Everyone plays under the basket at some point.


They didn't play under the basket either, which was your theory.

Make up your mind...



20 feet is not under the basket.

Exactly...


Why does it have an advantage?

You can't determine what the advantage is from that stat.

[Chomag]

You seriously don't know what other big man spaced the floor for the Lakers?

This conversation is over.

You mean Odom? Doesnt he usualy plays as the playmaker(pg) for the second unit? I'll admit I havnt watched many lakers games lately but I though Paul usualy plays mostly with Bynum.

[Chomag]

I assume this is a serious question because it's obvious you don't watch the NBA:

If this is all you are reading then yes I suppose it would look like that. =P

[ElNono]

Stupid bigs that space the floor...the Spurs wont win anything trying to use bigs that shoot from the outside.

http://www.b12partners.net/mt/images/Horry%20aka%20Big_Shot_Rob.jpg

That guy was great. Unfortunately he retired. Time to move on.

[ChumpDumper]

Make up your mind...I did.



Exactly...Thanks for agreeing with me.



You can't determine what the advantage is from that stat.Why not? Do you not know enough about the Spurs to posit a theory?

[jag]

If this is all you are reading then yes I suppose it would look like that. =P

You don't know the game that well, and I'm ok with that. You should be ok with it too.

[ChumpDumper]

You mean Odom? Doesnt he usualy plays as the playmaker(pg) for the second unit? I'll admit I havnt watched many lakers games lately but I though Paul usualy plays mostly with Bynum.How much did Bynum play last season?

[ElNono]

I did.Thanks for agreeing with me.

Don't thank me. You agreed with me.


Why not? Do you not know enough about the Spurs to posit a theory?

You would know the answer if you knew what that stat is, and what is the resolution of the information it provides. You would actually not be asking the question in the first place.

[Chomag]

You don't know the game that well, and I'm ok with that. You should be ok with it too.

Damn that must have been you that I keep catching looking in my dinning room window since you know me so well! I'm on to you NOW dammit! :nope

Typical elitist attitudes around here, but whatever. I used to tell people off like that or try to belittle them or call them silly names when I disagreed with them. When I was in the 3rd grade!

We can try to be a little more civilized if you care.

[ChumpDumper]

Don't thank me. You agreed with me.That 20 feet is not under the basket? No, I said that first.


You would know the answer if you knew what that stat is, and what is the resolution of the information it provides. You would actually not be asking the question in the first place.Actually it's a rhetorical question. I have a theory, it has a lot to do with offensive spacing.

What is your theory?

[Chomag]

How much did Bynum play last season?

You do have me there, good call. Heh, guess that shows how much I really care about the Lakers.

[jag]

Damn that must have been you that I keep catching looking in my dinning room window since you know me so well! I'm on to you NOW dammit! :nope

Typical elitist attitudes around here, but whatever. I used to tell people off like that or try to belittle them or call them silly names when I disagreed with them. When I was in the 3rd grade!

We can try to be a little more civilized if you care.

I wasn't being "uncivilized." I really don't mind that you're having problems understanding simple basketball concepts. When you have a dominant low post player you want to open things up for him...you want to unclog the paint so he can work and so players like Tony and Manu can also get into the lane.

That picture i posted of Robert Horry worked for both the Spurs and the Lakers championship runs. He spread the floor for Shaq. He spread the floor for Duncan. To those who think Bonner sucks...this season Bonner is shooting better than Robert Horry ever did over the course of his career.

[ElNono]

That 20 feet is not under the basket? No, I said that first.

No, that we don't need a guy 20+ feet out in order for Duncan to operate effectively. I said that first.


Actually it's a rhetorical question. I have a theory, it has a lot to do with offensive spacing.
What is your theory?

I don't have a theory. Let's hear yours.

[DPG21920]

This is impossible:

We say: Horry played and spaced the floor with Tim. We also say that Pau, KG and Wallace did the same for their teams.

El Nono says: Even though KG took more shots outside than inside, the fact he shot a better % closer to the rim shows he operates down low. Then even though Horry played a bigger role than Oberto/Nazr, the fact they were on the team and sometimes were in the lane shreds the spacing argument.

We say: Ok...

[Bender]

this thread has really grown fast...

anyway, I never heard of haislip back when we got him preseason. so I've been interested in seeing him play.

[ElNono]

This is impossible:

We say: Horry played and spaced the floor with Tim. We also say that Pau, KG and Wallace did the same for their teams.

El Nono says: Even though KG took more shots outside than inside, the fact he shot a better % closer to the rim shows he operates down low. Then even though Horry played a bigger role than Oberto/Nazr, the fact they were on the team and sometimes were in the lane shreds the spacing argument.

We say: Ok...

I say: What happened with Gasol and Wallace? What happened with Nazr/Rasho/DRob/Oberto?

You say: Ok...

[ChumpDumper]

No, that we don't need a guy 20+ feet out in order for Duncan to operate effectively.I never said that we did.


I don't have a theory. Let's hear yours.I think the offensive spacing is better in these lineups, since Bonner doesn't often supply much more.

[ChumpDumper]

this thread has really grown fast...

anyway, I never heard of haislip back when we got him preseason. so I've been interested in seeing him play.Let's hope he defends better than he did in the preseason.

[jag]

This is impossible:

We say: Horry played and spaced the floor with Tim. We also say that Pau, KG and Wallace did the same for their teams.

El Nono says: Even though KG took more shots outside than inside, the fact he shot a better % closer to the rim shows he operates down low. Then even though Horry played a bigger role than Oberto/Nazr, the fact they were on the team and sometimes were in the lane shreds the spacing argument.

We say: Ok...


For a lot of these guys the NBA started in 2002.

http://www.davidestrada.com/nbamatchup/ManuGold.jpg

[DPG21920]

I say: What happened with Gasol and Wallace? What happened with Nazr/Rasho/DRob/Oberto?

You say: Ok...

What do you mean what happened with Gasol and Wallace? They have the ability to space the floor. The fact they have that ability whether it is from 3-PT distance, 20 feet or 13 feet, the fact you have to respect that opens up the spacing.


We already explained the Nazr/Rasho/Drob/Oberto. Horry was there and spaced and played the most crucial role. D Rob played away from the rim, even if it was not 20 feet.

[Chomag]

I wasn't being "uncivilized." I really don't mind that you're having problems understanding simple basketball concepts. When you have a dominant low post player you want to open things up for him...you want to unclog the paint so he can work and so players like Tony and Manu can also get into the lane.

That picture i posted of Robert Horry worked for both the Spurs and the Lakers championship runs. He spread the floor for Shaq. He spread the floor for Duncan. To those who think Bonner sucks...this season Bonner is shooting better than Robert Horry ever did over the course of his career.

Ok, was it really that hard now. Still couldn't help it with the petty insults of your superiority course. However you are who you are and I can't change that. It's just way to easy to have this attitude on the Internets.

Maybe one day when I grow up I can be a fraction like you.

[ElNono]

I never said that we did.

You said that some of our bigs camped in the key. The key, last I checked, is 19 feet long from the baseline. That's a lot less than 20 feet overall.
So yeah, you did say it.


I think the offensive spacing is better in these lineups, since Bonner doesn't often supply much more.

Sounds plausible. But then I have to ask, why would the Spurs send him to the bench to play alongside Blair instead of Duncan then?

[ElNono]

For a lot of these guys the NBA started in 2002.

When did the NBA started for you?

Join Date
05-11-2007

Never mind...

[ElNono]

What do you mean what happened with Gasol and Wallace? They have the ability to space the floor. The fact they have that ability whether it is from 3-PT distance, 20 feet or 13 feet, the fact you have to respect that opens up the spacing.

You said we needed a guy shooting 20+ feet out to provide enough spacing. I can go back and quote you on that. Are you backtracking now? 13 feet is a lot different from 20 feet.

Are you going to deny that Rasheed Wallace was primarily a post up player when Detroit won it all?
Are you going to deny that Gasol is a low post player?


We already explained the Nazr/Rasho/Drob/Oberto. Horry was there and spaced and played the most crucial role. D Rob played away from the rim, even if it was not 20 feet.

Horry was great, but what made him great was well beyond his 3 point shooting. He was a great defender, he could rebound, he took charges and he occasionally would block a shot. He had a tremendous basketball IQ.

We simply don't have another Robert Horry. He retired. We need to move on. Tim has been successful in the paint before we had Horry. There's no reason he can't be again.

[DPG21920]

...

[ElNono]

...


...

Couple of these in this thread already... just go ahead and say what you think...
It's no big deal... it's not like anything we say has anything to do with what Pop is going to do anyways...

[spurspokesman]

Couldn't have said it any better. :tu
Me either. Outside of tim. What r we spreading the floor for. Maybe they plan on bringing some naked women during games to really make things interesting.

[spurspokesman]

Couldn't have said it any better. :tu
Me either. Outside of tim. What r we spreading the floor for. Maybe they plan on bringing some naked women during games to really make things interesting.now that's worth spreading the floor for

[benefactor]

Good lord this thread turned into a mess.

Spacing is important with Duncan. It does not have to be a 3pt shot or even 20 feet...but the big next to him needs to be able to shoot at least shoot some sort of midrange shot. Otherwise we are playing 4 on 5.

[sabar]

The long range big is there for versatility. There is no point to stack the big man lineup with under the basket players. We have bigs for under the bucket, midrange, and 3-pters, with differing types of defense.

Just say what you actually want to: that Pop needs nothing but under the basket bigs because he is too blind to look past his 3-pt shooting guy and small ball. This is hardly a new argument and has been repeated ad nauseam since 2006 by various posters. I think it is silly.

[ElNono]

Chump, this is offtopic, but were you the guy that used to go see the Vipers?
If it's you, I have a question for you...

[my2sons]

looks like ratliff will be getting some time again. haislip might get some minutes but i doubt he'll get more than 10 minutes.

also, no way mahinmi or haislip will ever see minutes in the playoffs. mahinmi and haislip have not even proven they can suit up and sit on the bench yet. yeah, lets have "i foul every two seconds" mahinmi and "i can't beat out bonner for a roster spot" haislip play against the elite bigs of playoff contenders. stop wishing for a miracle breakout. spurs' only hope is that bonner doesn't welt under the pressure and mcdyess + ratliff are 100% playoff time.

so if haislip plays earns consistent minutes during bonners injury, no way he gets minutes in the playoffs...or if ian plays and earns minutes during injury, no way he plays in playoffs...might as well keep them in sutis because there is no way they will every play in playoffs....god forbid they get a chance to contribute to wins in the regular season to help team make the playoffs but that is not important right now....no way they make the playoffs, wait, I have a thought, maybe now that bonner is hurt we play haislip and ian a few minutes to see if they can play in this leage, if pleasantly surprised then pop can decide if they are worthy of playing in the playoffs, no we can't do this because its been predetermined that these guys will never see any minutes in the playoffs, so lets just give ratliff the minutes now so he can show how his injury prone career comes back to bite us cuz pop can't monitor his minutes because iam nor haislip should get any minutes now because there is zero chance of them playing in the playoffs...I'm so glad the nba has removed the need for role players

[nkdlunch]

what about Ian???

[HarlemHeat37]

This should be interesting..

I only saw Haislip in preseason + the Spurs scrimmage + the game vs. the European team..so a good amount of games, but obviously no regular season games..I don't think that really matters though, because the guy was obviously trying to impress in his first games..

TBH, he was one of the worst players I've ever seen in the NBA..I don't mind him getting a shot though, maybe his preseason play was just jitters, or maybe he plays better in bigger games, we'll see..I don't have any expectations at all for him though, hopefully he can surprise..

I'd much rather see Ian though, hopefully they both get some time, although I think the organization has kind of given up on Ian..

[Chomag]

what about Ian???

Nah, becuase he plays to much like a big and doesnt shoot 3s like a guard that alot of people seem to be demanding from our bigs these days.