Tim Duncan is 33 and still the best PF in the NBA [Archive]

TheSpursFNRule

12-20-2009, 03:42 PM

I just find it funny because yes he has slowed down and yes he isn't the Timmy of old, BUT he is still the most effective, productive and efficient PF in the league. Gasol is the only one who really creeps up and gives him a challenge. for that position Don't even bother saying KG does...

:flag:

Ghazi

12-20-2009, 03:42 PM

Dirk says stfu

badfish22

12-20-2009, 03:56 PM

:lmao

Venti Quattro

12-20-2009, 04:04 PM

Dirk also says I have an owie on my elbow... whaaaaaaa!!!!
:lmao

DPG21920

12-20-2009, 04:26 PM

Its easy to get good numbers when playing on a scrub team. Z-Bo, David Lee, Bosh, Jamison, all are experiencing the same thing right now.

Those teams have losing records.

21_Blessings

12-20-2009, 05:55 PM

Tim Duncan is a center. So no.

badfish22

12-20-2009, 05:56 PM

:lmao at spur fans

djohn2oo8

12-20-2009, 05:57 PM

Dirk is the best

Duncan21kid

12-20-2009, 05:57 PM

LOL at mavfans and lakerfans

JamStone

12-20-2009, 06:12 PM

Dirk is currently the best power forward in the NBA.

Tim Duncan is one of the two best centers in the league.

FkLA

12-20-2009, 06:18 PM

Enough with this center/pf shit, Duncan is listed as a PF whether he plays like one or not is irrelevant...especially when the player he's being compared to here plays like a fucking guard.

Also lol @ retarded Mavs fans that think Tim isnt worthy of being in the discussion...20,11,2 and actually makes an impact on both sides of the ball unlike yalls boy Dirk. Like Ive always said give me Tim and his walker over Dirk even right now.

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:02 PM

Yeah well you also think Manu > Dirk, so your opinion will be taken with a grain of salt.

Cry Havoc

12-20-2009, 07:07 PM

TD 21

12-20-2009, 07:15 PM

Duncan:
20 PPG, 11 RPG, 3.3 APG, 2.1 BPG, .6 SPG

Dirk:
26 PPG, 8.1 RPG, 2.7 APG, 1.4 BPG, 1.1 SPG

So let's see: Duncan trails by 6 PPG, gets 3 boards per game, more assists, and blocks better while getting slightly fewer steals. In five fewer minutes per game. And has more of a defensive impact.

And despite the intangibles favoring Duncan, Mavs fans think it's clearly Dirk? Hmmm.

Don't forget, Nowitzki plays roughly 6-7 more mpg and attempts roughly 5-6 more fg's per game. Duncan is easily the more efficient and better all around player of the two.

I agree with FkLa on this PF or C nonsense. The reality is Gasol, like Duncan, is in between positions and Nowitzki, the guy plays like an SF. Even if you want to call Duncan a C, he still trumps the overrated Howard. People acted as if Howard had passed Duncan on the basis of roughly half a season (when Duncan was playing hurt), but other than that, he's never played consistently at a higher level than Duncan.

Top five players (in no particular order) this season: James, Duncan, Anthony, Bryant, Nash/Nowitzki.

Fpoonsie

12-20-2009, 07:17 PM

Dirk's beasting right now, but Timmy's surprising the hell outta me this year, too...atleast thus far.

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:17 PM

Don't forget, Nowitzki plays roughly 6-7 more mpg and attempts roughly 5-6 more fg's per game. Duncan is easily the more efficient and better all around player of the two.

It's Dirk's fault he's more durable?

Cry Havoc

12-20-2009, 07:21 PM

It's Dirk's fault he's more durable?

:lmao

Is it Duncan's fault Dirk needs those extra minutes to be even close to as effective?

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:22 PM

So it is Dirk's fault he's more durable. A little bit of both of their fault that Dirk is a better player tho.

Ghazi

12-20-2009, 07:23 PM

Dirk destroyed Duncan in the OT meeting earlier this year... Spurs/Mavs players played even that game, the only difference was Dirk Nowitzki outplaying Duncan in OT, as he is expected to since he's the superior player.

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:24 PM

Cry Havoc

12-20-2009, 07:25 PM

Yep Mavs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that. :lol

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:25 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that. :lol

hater

12-20-2009, 07:27 PM

when you include defense Duncan >>>> Dirk

hater

12-20-2009, 07:28 PM

Dirk also says I have an owie on my elbow... whaaaaaaa!!!!

:lmao

Kyle Orton

12-20-2009, 07:28 PM

when you include who has the better hair Dirk >>>> Duncan

alchemist

12-20-2009, 07:35 PM

when you include who has the better hair Dirk >>>> Duncan
this.......

TD 21

12-20-2009, 07:37 PM

It's Dirk's fault he's more durable?

It has nothing to do with durability and all about how each team perceives itself. The Spurs fancy themselves a title contender and thus are pacing Duncan for a long season. The Mavs don't see themselves that way and thus desperately attempt to scrape out every last regular season win they can, in the hopes of gaining as high a seed as possible. You're delusional if you don't think Duncan is capable of play more than 32 mpg and isn't durable. In recent NBA history, is there a big man that's played more in a ten-twelve year stretch than Duncan? The guy is a workhorse and unlike Nowitzki, he didn't get by playing strictly a finesse game.

Defense? Who needs defense? It's only half the game.

As for hair, Nowitzki's is amongst the worst and most feminine (along with Mike Miller) in the league.

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:38 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that. :lol

TD 21

12-20-2009, 07:44 PM

More objective than Mavs fans, that's for sure. What's your basis for saying Nowitzki is better, outside of a higher scoring average (which is greatly aided by the significantly more minutes he plays and shots he takes)? Really, the only thing Nowitzki is better than Duncan at is range shooting. Ever other aspect of the game, Duncan has him beat.

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 07:51 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that. :lol

z0sa

12-20-2009, 07:54 PM

lol @ mavfan changing goalposts, projecting, and distorting the facts just to make Dirk seem > Duncan

jag

12-20-2009, 08:15 PM

This thing has been argued ad nauseam. And any fan of any team that thinks it heavily favors one player over the other, is a moron.

The fact that Dirk is actually capable of playing heavy minutes is not something that should favor Duncan.

jdev82

12-20-2009, 08:45 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that. :lol

4 rings faggot
:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

badfish22

12-20-2009, 08:48 PM

4 rings faggot
:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:

:lmao good job Dirk4. He mad. :lmao

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 08:50 PM

:lmao good job Dirk4. He mad. :lmao

He definitely mad.

Culburn369

12-20-2009, 08:53 PM

But, he ain't O & forever. tee, hee.

dirk4mvp

12-20-2009, 08:56 PM

But, he ain't O & forever. tee, hee.

Did you bring your shine box?

Mavs_man_41

12-21-2009, 12:36 AM

looks like cubby fell into a crocodile pit and got tore the fuck up

TDMVPDPOY

12-21-2009, 01:00 AM

when havin an argument with mavs fans and ur not getting through them?

mention 4>0 rings and they will stfu

dirk4mvp

12-21-2009, 01:03 AM

when havin an argument with mavs fans and ur not getting through them?

mention 4>0 rings and they will stfu

That's funny considering mavfan started that smack, shitbreath.

Mavs_man_41

12-21-2009, 01:19 AM

when havin an argument with mavs fans and ur not getting through them?

mention 4>0 rings and they will stfu

actually, that will just make us jump on your ass like a pack of hyenas on a gazelle with a broke leg. little boys like you don't have any place in this jungle, i highly advise you to leave or else risk getting embarrassed.

TheSpursFNRule

12-21-2009, 04:33 AM

Dirk scores a lot. He gets shit numbers in assists and rebounds like a bitch for a 7 footer. Is there really anything else that needs to be said? No. Point proven. In the course of a game Duncan see's the floor better and gets more people involved. More efficient and more productive. It's been said, this thread should be closed. Mav fans are so fucking sad. I want to cry.

Mavs_man_41

12-21-2009, 04:36 AM

I want to cry.

Let the tears fall :cry

DAF86

12-21-2009, 05:46 AM

Dirk is currently the best power forward in the NBA.

Tim Duncan is one of the two best centers in the league.

If Duncan is one of the two best centers in the NBA, then Dirk is one of the two best SG in the league.

Warlord23

12-21-2009, 06:24 AM

Dirk. Hands down best PF of all time. Didn't you peeps watch his demolition of Udonis Haslem in the 2006 finals? Or the spectacular post game he displayed in dominating the 2007 Warriors? I mean, if you make Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington look silly in the low post, you've done it all.

urunobili

12-21-2009, 07:09 AM

If Duncan is one of the two best centers in the NBA, then Dirk is one of the two best SG in the league.

:owned

jdev82

12-21-2009, 08:02 AM

:lol
Dirk. Hands down best PF of all time. Didn't you peeps watch his demolition of Udonis Haslem in the 2006 finals? Or the spectacular post game he displayed in dominating the 2007 Warriors? I mean, if you make Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington look silly in the low post, you've done it all.

:owned

The Franchise

12-21-2009, 08:57 AM

I love Timmy but to even argue he is better than Dirk is retarded. Timmy saw his better days about three years ago.

FkLA

12-21-2009, 09:31 AM

I love Timmy but to even argue he is better than Dirk is retarded. Timmy saw his better days about three years ago.

20 ppg, 11 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2 bpg in about six less minutes than Dirk. Still has one of the top 5 efficiency ratings, third in the league if my memory serves me right. Tim is carrying the Spurs and has been the only consistant player in an underperforming team, if the season ended today would be a strong MVP candidate, and has been a Top 5 player in the league this year (as has Dirk). I wont deny that this isnt prime-Timmy but lets also not act like and believe this idiotic notion that Timmy is a shell of himself...even with his walker, knee braces, and 5 inch vertical the man is still as productive as anybody in the league. He still anchors the Spurs defense and has the offense revolve around him.

I honestly dont have a problem with these Dallas fans saying Dirk>Tim this year, I dont agree but its a viewpoint I can respect because both players have been great this year...its when they go beyond that and say its not even worthy of a comparison that I have a problem with. Thats a total diss at Timmy.

JamStone

12-21-2009, 09:45 AM

I see Dirk as a power forward. Just because he's a jump shooting power forward, it doesn't make him a shooting guard. And especially over the last few years, he's more of a power forward than a perimeter wing. He does more midpost or high post back downs. And he shoots far fewer three pointers than he used to. He only shoots about 2 a game. Similar to Chris Webber or Karl Malone later in his career, he's a jump shooting power forward, but a power forward nonetheless who plays the high post on offense like many power forwards do. You're not going to see Dirk consistently defend 2-guards in the league.

Tim Duncan plays center. He's the one true low post threat on the Spurs. The Spurs don't post up Antonio McDyess or Matt Bonner. Dice and Bonner are not centers. Duncan plays center on offense and anchors the defense as the center.

To suggest Dirk is a shooting guard simply because you're butt hurt that Tim Duncan is actually a center when he and the Spurs want to call him a "power forward" is being pretty sensitive. Dirk is a power forward. Tim Duncan is a center. Or are Antonio McDyess and Matt Bonner the Spurs' centers? Well, if it makes Timmy and Spurs fans happy and that's how the Spurs are going to call him in their media guide, it must be true.

Culburn369

12-21-2009, 09:47 AM

Tim Duncan plays center. He's the one true low post threat on the Spurs.

Yep, at 18 feet out. He's like Franco Harris scootin' outta bound to avoid contact.

LakeShow

12-21-2009, 09:51 AM

Yep, at 18 feet out. He's like Franco Harris scootin' outta bound to avoid contact.

:lol

Oh, and +1 on Jamstone's post.

Shank

12-21-2009, 09:55 AM

So, if this circlejerk continues and there's ever a resolution to this boring-ass debate, what does that get the winner?

Ginobili2Duncan

12-21-2009, 10:30 AM

Dirk has yet to prove he can be a leader on a championship team. He had his 2 year window to prove it and he failed miserably.

Shank

12-21-2009, 10:41 AM

Dirk has yet to prove he can be a leader on a championship team. He had his 2 year window to prove it and he failed miserably.

Ok.

Sorry to hear Dirk's window has closed. We'll send him the memo.

Ginobili2Duncan

12-21-2009, 10:43 AM

Ok.

Sorry to hear Dirk's window has closed. We'll send him the memo.

Don't feel bad at least he got the opportunity, because he is not winning a championship with the Mavs.

Shank

12-21-2009, 11:09 AM

Don't feel bad at least he got the opportunity, because he is not winning a championship with the Mavs.

Ok. Thanks for the thoughtful insight.

DAF86

12-21-2009, 11:54 AM

DAF86

12-21-2009, 11:55 AM

Ok. Thanks for the thoughtful insight.

Did you trully need someone telling it to realize that?

Shank

12-21-2009, 12:50 PM

Did you trully need someone telling it to realize that?

Trully, I did.

DAF86

12-21-2009, 01:07 PM

Trully, I did.

Yeah, truly goes with only one "L", you're still not going to see your team getting a championship.

BadOdor

12-21-2009, 01:10 PM

Yeah, truly goes with only one "L", you're still not going to see your team getting a championship.

manu>dirk.

Findog

12-21-2009, 01:14 PM

when havin an argument with mavs fans and ur not getting through them?

mention 4>0 rings and they will stfu

You don't understand irony, do you?

Culburn369

12-21-2009, 01:16 PM

Hey, Fin,

I'm mentioning 4>0 rings.

Findog

12-21-2009, 01:24 PM

Dirk scores a lot. He gets shit numbers in assists and rebounds like a bitch for a 7 footer.

For his career he averages 9 boards a game. He also has averaged 11 boards in 94 playoff games. I will be gracious and allow you to concede defeat here. In fact, Dirk Nowitzki is one of only 5 players in NBA history who has averaged 25/11 in the playoffs. You couldn't name the others.

Is there really anything else that needs to be said?

Yes. You're a shitty poster.

Point proven

Dirk's the best PF in the game, Duncan is the best C.

In the course of a game Duncan see's the floor better and gets more people involved. More efficient and more productive.

They're about even in terms of who is better at this point. Duncan's had the better career, but as of 09/10, it's a coin flip as to who is better.

All I know is the Mavs are 20-8 with Dirk as the best player and Kidd, Terry and Marion as his supporting cast, while Josh has missed 20 games with a bum ankle. They've played 14 road games and 14 home games. The Spurs, on the other hand, are 14-10 with Duncan as their best player and Parker, Manu and Jefferson as his sidekicks. They've played 15 of their 24 games in San Antonio.

It's been said, this thread should be closed.

Are you the moderator? Do you get to decide who posts and who doesn't? Do I have your permission or should I pm Kori or timvp for posting privileges?

Mav fans are so fucking sad.

Spurs fans are hysterically funny. Unintentionally so, but always good for a laugh.

Findog

12-21-2009, 01:24 PM

Hey, Fin,

I'm mentioning 4>0 rings.

ok. Is that supposed to make me sad or bother me?

Culburn369

12-21-2009, 01:44 PM

That's what the rumor promised it would do.

z0sa

12-21-2009, 02:19 PM

Are you the moderator? Do you get to decide who posts and who doesn't? Do I have your permission or should I pm Kori or timvp for posting privileges

I can't remember all the times I've seen you make the "+1, lock the thread" comment on the first/2nd pages of topics, well before they have run their course.

Just sayin.

Ditty

12-21-2009, 02:31 PM

lol dirk

stretch

12-21-2009, 02:46 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that. :lol

dirk4mvp

12-21-2009, 03:12 PM

I can't remember all the times I've seen you make the "+1, lock the thread" comment on the first/2nd pages of topics, well before they have run their course.

Just sayin.

Did you ever wipe Greg Oden's skidmarks off your face?

td4mvp21

12-21-2009, 03:34 PM

Dirk is having a better season than Duncan, despite the great season Duncan has had. I still think Duncan is better but I am obviously biased.

TIMMYD!

12-21-2009, 03:37 PM

Of course Tim is the best. Fuck Noringzki.

DAF86

12-21-2009, 03:56 PM

Dirk is having a better season than Duncan.

You think that 'cause Dallas is having a better season than the Spurs but looking more closely at the stats I don't think that Dirk is having a better season than Duncan.

Dirk: 26 pts per game on 20 field goal attempts per game- 47 fg%

Duncan: 20 pts per game on 15 field goal attempts per game- 55 fg%

Dirk: 8.1 rbds., 1.1 stls, 1.3 blks, 2.7 assts on 37.6 MPG

Duncan: 10.8 rbds, 0.59 stls, 2.3 blks, 3.3 assts on 32.1 MPG

Dirk: PER-25.32

Duncan: PER-28.79

Duncan has the better stats.

lefty

12-21-2009, 04:00 PM

TD is still the best PF, it's not even debatable

Findog

12-21-2009, 04:05 PM

TD is still the best PF, it's not even debatable

Yeah, and Matt Bonner is a C. Stop hiding behind semantics.

badfish22

12-21-2009, 04:50 PM

TD is still the best PF, it's not even debatable

The standings disagree with you.

So does the MVP race.

JamStone

12-21-2009, 05:09 PM

Nobody is butthurt, I've always said that Duncan is the center of the Spurs.

You know what is it "beign pretty sensitive"? answering an obvious joke post in an upset manner.

How is it an "obvious" joke when there are Spurs fans that really and truly have that opinion? Seemed like you were one of them.

DAF86

12-21-2009, 05:31 PM

How is it an "obvious" joke when there are Spurs fans that really and truly have that opinion? Seemed like you were one of them.

Well I'm not.

Duncan21kid

12-21-2009, 05:39 PM

Duncan's a PF you fuckin tools

Ghazi

12-21-2009, 05:43 PM

Dirk is the best god damn PF in the NBA right now, hell it ain't even a debate. Look at the +/- numbers for the last few years, Duncan's impact on the game has declined dramatically even though his surface numbers (20/10/3/etc) are still very good. Meanwhile, Dirk has amazing +/- numbers over the last few years indicating he's still in his prime, Duncan isn't.

The man just doesn't impact games anymore... back in the day I'd be scared going up against the Spurs, cause of Duncan... but now the man just doesn't strike fear into my heart... I have confidence knowing we have Dirk, and they have Duncan, and Dirk is more likely to take over a game than Duncan, as was evident in the OT when Duncan missed a baby shot, was defended excellently by Dirk, and Dirk made huge shot after huge shot down the stretch.

Someone said Dirk has below average rebounding/assist numbers... is 2.7 assists really terrible for a non-guard? his defensive boardwork is good too obv due to his style he cannot rack up offensive boards... and the man's averaging 11 boards per contest in the playoffs... if he wanted to he could probably average 1-2 more rebounds in the reg season.

Also, his efficiency :)... Dirk averages less turnovers than Duncan despite playing 6 more minutes.

God bless the best PF in the universe.

dirk4mvp

12-21-2009, 05:46 PM

I have confidence knowing we have Dirk, and they have Duncan, and Dirk is more likely to take over a game than Duncan, as was evident in the OT when Duncan missed a baby shot, was defended excellently by Dirk, and Dirk made huge shot after huge shot down the stretch.

This is the biggest difference between them. How many games has Duncan taken over this year?

JamStone

12-21-2009, 05:46 PM

Duncan's a PF you fuckin tools

We know. Antonio McDyess and Matt Bonner are the Spurs two big, bruising centers who play down low on the block and anchor the defense.

Ghazi

12-21-2009, 05:47 PM

I dunno if it was this thread but I noticed some shitbag say that Dirk plays more minutes because the Mavs want a high seed whereas the spurs have to pace DUncan because they view themselves as a title contender? Give me a fucking break... Kobe/Gasol play high # of minutes too, arent the Lakers a title contender?

Its called durability... Duncan can't take 38+ minutes a game because he's worn down, Dirk can... and its a positive trait to have in basketball.

DPG21920

12-21-2009, 06:44 PM

Throw the positions out the window. Just argue who is the better player. That is the real issue, not the position someone plays.

Going by that, it is a tough one. I honestly don't know who I would take right now (meaning choosing who is playing better), but Dirk has a better chance to sustain or elevate his play over the course of the season. Having said that, I think if you switch Dirk and Duncan, the Mavs are better and the Spurs are worse.

dirk4mvp

12-21-2009, 06:48 PM

DPG21920

12-21-2009, 07:07 PM

Based off what?

Based off of plenty of things. Duncan is still a very effective offensive player. He would still have Kidd to spot up and shoot 3's (which Parker does not), Howard to slash and hit 3's (like Gino), Marion (RJ type slasher) and then Dampier + Duncan would make the Mavs one of the best if not the best defensive rebounding teams in the league and their defense would improve.

Dirk on the Spurs would fit well offensively for sure, but the Spurs don't need that slight boost in scoring and it would take away the Spurs only effective low post back to the basket scorer. Their rebounding and defense would suffer more than it already is and it would be a net loss. Just my opinion.

badfish22

12-21-2009, 07:20 PM

Having said that, I think if you switch Dirk and Duncan, the Mavs are better and the Spurs are worse.

wrong.
Both teams would probably be worse.
Mavs would be below the Spurs in the standings

DPG21920

12-21-2009, 07:31 PM

wrong.
Both teams would probably be worse.
Mavs would be below the Spurs in the standings

Why do you say that? What is your reasoning?

Greg Oden

12-21-2009, 07:37 PM

Based off of plenty of things. Duncan is still a very effective offensive player. He would still have Kidd to spot up and shoot 3's (which Parker does not), Howard to slash and hit 3's (like Gino), Marion (RJ type slasher) and then Dampier + Duncan would make the Mavs one of the best if not the best defensive rebounding teams in the league and their defense would improve.

Dirk on the Spurs would fit well offensively for sure, but the Spurs don't need that slight boost in scoring and it would take away the Spurs only effective low post back to the basket scorer. Their rebounding and defense would suffer more than it already is and it would be a net loss. Just my opinion.

good take.

I think the Spurs would be better with Dirk right now. Even with Dick, the Spurs still stutter on offense Parker hasn't been great either. Dirk's scoring is on another level right now, and would end the Spurs scoring droughts. The rebounding wouldn't suffer at all. Dirk's at 8 rebs. game now, due to having so many good rebounders playing around him. Kidd, Marion, Gooden, Damp - all great rebounders.

badfish22

12-21-2009, 07:42 PM

Why do you say that? What is your reasoning?

We rely on Dirk for almost all our half-court scoring. Whether its actually him shooting it or drawing the attention of the defense. Timmy doesnt demand the attention on offense that dirk does.

Plus I think Dirk fits in better with Kidd and Ricks system and Pop's s
system is built around Duncan. The Mavs are based on running with Kidd quarterbacking and Josh, Marion and Terry on the wings. One of our signature fast break plays is Dirk either streaking down the lane at the last second and Kidd hitting him in-stride or Dirk trailing the fastbreak and Kidd hitting him with a no-look pass for the three. Both of these things Duncan can't do.

Its impossible to know for sure obviously, and just imagining Dirk in a Spur uniform makes be shiver.

Duncan is having a better year than I ever imagined, so the gap between Dirk and Duncan isn't as big as I thought, but its there. Dirk showed it last time they met.

Spursfan092120

12-21-2009, 07:52 PM

Based off what?
Based off defense...based off leadership. Tim is a leader for the Spurs, and Dirk doesn't have as much of a leadership role. If the Spurs would lose Tim on defense, they wouldn't be as good, even with the spark of Dirk on offense, even though 6 PPG isn't that much more.

Greg Oden

12-21-2009, 08:01 PM

Based off defense...based off leadership. Tim is a leader for the Spurs, and Dirk doesn't have as much of a leadership role. If the Spurs would lose Tim on defense, they wouldn't be as good, even with the spark of Dirk on offense, even though 6 PPG isn't that much more.

The hell it isn't.

DPG21920

12-21-2009, 08:21 PM

The Spurs would not score 6 PPG more with Dirk than Duncan. I think he meant Dirk would average 6 PPG more than Duncan, but all that means is someone else would average less. I think the Spurs scoring would go up, but certainly not by 6 ppg.

badfish22

12-21-2009, 08:23 PM

they wouldn't be as good, even with the spark of Dirk on offense, even though 6 PPG isn't that much more.

Than I guess Carl Landry isnt that much worse on offense than Brandon Roy?

stretch

12-21-2009, 08:39 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that.

td4mvp21

12-21-2009, 08:42 PM

Yep Spurs fans. You're really objective. Keep telling yourselves that.

You're foolish in general if you think Mavs or Spurs fans are going to be objective in this debate. JamStone had some good thoughts.

DPG21920

12-21-2009, 08:48 PM

I think it is ghey that certain fans cry foul when a fan for another team says anything even if it was well thought out. Pulling that card is just as bad as pulling the ring card.

lefty

12-21-2009, 09:17 PM

Yeah, and Matt Bonner is a C. Stop hiding behind semantics.

hater

lefty

12-21-2009, 09:17 PM

The standings disagree with you.

So does the MVP race.

Hater

LakasRool4eva

12-22-2009, 12:15 AM

loling@ Spooge fans and Mavs fans arguing bout whose better.......guess yall forogt Gasols da champ and only lost 4 games so far.............

badfish22

12-22-2009, 12:21 AM

loling@ Spooge fans and Mavs fans arguing bout whose better.......guess yall forogt Gasols da champ and only lost 4 games so far.............

The worst troll here.

monosylab1k

12-22-2009, 12:23 AM

I'll still take Duncan. Sorry, Dirk.

Ginobili2Duncan

12-22-2009, 12:26 AM

This is the biggest difference between them. How many games has Duncan taken over this year?

I think a better question is how many games has Dirk taken over when it matters most? Meaning the playoffs. Then ask yourself how many games has Duncan taken over in the playoffs. Who cares how many games Dirk can take over in a regular season.

badfish22

12-22-2009, 12:27 AM

I think a better question is how many games has Dirk taken over when it matters most? Meaning the playoffs. Then ask yourself how many games has Duncan taken over in the playoffs. Who cares how many games Dirk can take over in a regular season.

Well we all know Duncan was better in his prime than Dirk, so I guess were talking recent playoffs, no?

Dirk>Duncan

monosylab1k

12-22-2009, 12:28 AM

Duncan > Dirk > Randolph > Gasol > KG

Ginobili2Duncan

12-22-2009, 12:35 AM

Well we all know Duncan was better in his prime than Dirk, so I guess were talking recent playoffs, no?

Dirk>Duncan

So you are basing this off of last year?

Findog

12-22-2009, 12:35 AM

loling@ Spooge fans and Mavs fans arguing bout whose better.......guess yall forogt Gasols da champ and only lost 4 games so far.............

guess youse forogt dat you cant see yo penus in dah showah cause you so fat.

Findog

12-22-2009, 12:37 AM

Duncan and Dirk right now are a coin flip.

Ginobili2Duncan

12-22-2009, 12:51 AM

Well we all know Duncan was better in his prime than Dirk, so I guess were talking recent playoffs, no?

Dirk>Duncan

2009 Mavs vs Spurs

Duncan 19.8 pts 8 rebs 3.2 ast 0.6 stl 1.2 blk 52,3% 32.8 min

Nowitzki 19.2 pts 8.6 rebs 2.2 ast 1.0 stl 0.6 blk 49.3% 37.4 min

Findog

12-22-2009, 01:00 AM

2009 Mavs vs Spurs

Duncan 19.8 pts 8 rebs 3.2 ast 0.6 stl 1.2 blk 52,3% 32.8 min

Nowitzki 19.2 pts 8.6 rebs 2.2 ast 1.0 stl 0.6 blk 49.3% 37.4 min

Dirk's team won. And Dirk put up those numbers with Popovich forcing the ball out of his hands and making him a facilitator. By contrast, in the game in Dallas earlier this year that Dallas won in OT, he made a conscious choice NOT to double Dirk. I guess it's pick your poison.

Warlord23

12-22-2009, 08:50 AM

On the eternal question of whether Duncan is a PF or C ... WGAF what you or I think? If the team calls him a PF then he is a PF.

Was Magic Johnson classified as SF? No, he played at PG (except for that one NBA finals game he played at C). So, even though Pippen guarded him in the '91 Finals, nobody called Magic an SF. He and the Lakers said he played PG, and that was it.

Jamstone says that Duncan is a C because he is the main post-up threat. Again, this doesn't hold water. When Hakeem played with Samson he was the primary post-up threat but was called PF. Even when Duncan played with Robinson he was the primary post-up threat, I didn't see you claiming he was a C then. Michael Jordan played the same position that Shaq later played in Phil Jackson's triangle offense. Does that make MJ a C too, since he posted up more than anyone else on the Bulls? Pippen and Kobe played similar roles in the triangle too (facilitator and ball-handler), does that make them PGs?

You can't create an arbitrary rule using either size, playing style or role to assign a position to a player. There are just too many exceptions.

Duncan is a PF because that's what he and the Spurs call him.

Fortune Cookie

12-22-2009, 09:34 AM

mavsfan1000

12-22-2009, 12:04 PM

Dirk's +/- is 34.6 for on court/off court and Duncan's +/- is 3.4. I think I'll take Dirk now. Duncan is far from what he was a few years ago and proven by the spurs record this year.

nkdlunch

12-22-2009, 12:17 PM

Dirk's +/- is 34.6 for on court/off court and Duncan's +/- is 3.4. I think I'll take Dirk now. Duncan is far from what he was a few years ago and proven by the spurs record this year.

guess you havent been watching the spurs this year. Duncan is playing as good as he's played in the last 5 years.

I agree about Duncan/Dirk being a coinflip. But if I had a choice, I'd still pick the defensive presence with double the block ratio of the other choice.

Smooth Criminal

12-22-2009, 12:49 PM

Dirk laughs at this thread

LOL@MavsFan

12-22-2009, 01:25 PM

Duncan = PF
Dirk = 7 ft guard 2 different types of players playing 2 different positions.
4-1 baby 4-1

badfish22

12-22-2009, 02:15 PM

Duncan = C
Dirk = 7 ft guard 2 different types of players playing 2 different positions.
4-1 baby 4-1

Findog

12-22-2009, 03:41 PM

You gotta be pretty butthurt to actually choose a screen name that references a team you hate. Every time that guy posts he owns himself.

Muser

12-22-2009, 03:49 PM

Duncan and Dirk right now are a coin flip.

:tu

mavsfan1000

12-22-2009, 04:37 PM

I'll easily take Dirk. He is playing some of his best basketball ever. Similar to his MVP year. Duncan looks like a shadow of his old game. So much easier to guard now with losing some of that speed. The on court/off court isn't totally consistent but that is quite a huge gap between Dirk and Duncan. I think that is significant in the comparison for who is more valuable to their teams.

Johnny RIngo

12-22-2009, 06:02 PM

I'll take Duncan.

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/913/pervp.jpg

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics

WalterSobchak

12-22-2009, 06:16 PM

Greg Oden

12-22-2009, 06:16 PM

lmao

spur fans have been hating per for years until now it helps their argument.

Findog

12-22-2009, 06:17 PM

According to that list, you'd want Chrissy Paul, Chris Bosh and Kevin Martin over Dirk, Kobe and Wade. You can argue Duncan > Dirk, but that list is hilarious.

Ghazi

12-22-2009, 06:19 PM

is loL@Mavs fan that benjarvus faggot?

Findog

12-22-2009, 06:20 PM

is loL@Mavs fan that benjarvus faggot?

I think the epitome of self-ownage is choosing a nick that references a team you hate. That guy owns himself every time he hits submit.

DPG21920

12-22-2009, 06:20 PM

lmao

spur fans have been hating per for years until now it helps their argument.

I don't see why people keep saying this. Duncan has almost always had a better PER on a year to year basis (there are certainly a few years where Dirk was better) and Duncan has a better career PER than Dirk.

Findog

12-22-2009, 06:23 PM

I don't see why people keep saying this. Duncan has almost always had a better PER on a year to year basis (there are certainly a few years where Dirk was better) and Duncan has a better career PER than Dirk.

Well, I think you can make that case that Duncan is better, but using that specific list, you'd also want Chris Bosh and Kevin Martin over Kobe and Wade. Does that make sense?

Goran Dragic

12-22-2009, 06:26 PM

is loL@Mavs fan that benjarvus faggot?

Yep.

Goran Dragic

12-22-2009, 06:30 PM

loling@ Spooge fans and Mavs fans arguing bout whose better.......guess yall forogt Gasols da champ and only lost 4 games so far.............

This guy is def. not someone's troll. If it is, that person is doing a tremendous job staying in character. The best part is this guy is a die hard Cowboys fan in the NFL forum.

DPG21920

12-22-2009, 06:34 PM

Well, I think you can make that case that Duncan is better, but using that specific list, you'd also want Chris Bosh and Kevin Martin over Kobe and Wade. Does that make sense?

No, I was not saying that the PER argument is a trump card. I was just saying that I don't get why a few people keep saying "Spurs fans hate the PER argument until this year when it supports them..."

For the reasons I outlined that makes no sense. Even if it does not mean anything, it makes no sense for Spurs fans to hate the argument when it favors Duncan over time.

Johnny RIngo

12-22-2009, 08:07 PM

Well, I think you can make that case that Duncan is better, but using that specific list, you'd also want Chris Bosh and Kevin Martin over Kobe and Wade. Does that make sense?

Martin's only played 5 games(sample size is too small). He's sure to drop off the top 10 when he returns from injury.

I posted that list to prove to mavsfan1000 that Duncan is not playing "like a shadow of his old self". He's as efficient as he's ever been. That statement may apply to Parker or Ginobili(who have both played like shit this season) but it seems strange to throw it at Duncan.

NBA.com's efficiency stat is little different:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/860/nbaeff.jpg

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

Again, both lists have their problems(Kevin Martin for instance) but the fact that Duncan's ranked highly on both says a lot about how good he's been this season(so far anyway). I'm just pointing out that the gap isn't as huge as Mav fans make it out to be.

Ginobili2Duncan

12-22-2009, 09:22 PM

Ask yourself what knowledgable basketball fan takes Dirk over Duncan?

21_Blessings

12-22-2009, 09:29 PM

Ask yourself what knowledgable basketball fan takes Dirk over Duncan?

1) A Mavs fan

Ginobili2Duncan

12-22-2009, 09:34 PM

1) A Mavs fan

I said knowledgeable

21_Blessings

12-22-2009, 09:35 PM

I said knowledgeable

I know.

JamStone

12-22-2009, 09:38 PM

Without question. I'd take Duncan over Dirk.

Fucking Germans. Nothing changes.

dirk4mvp

12-22-2009, 10:31 PM

]Martin's only played 5 games(sample size is too small). He's sure to drop off the top 10 when he returns from injury.
[/B]
I posted that list to prove to mavsfan1000 that Duncan is not playing "like a shadow of his old self". He's as efficient as he's ever been. That statement may apply to Parker or Ginobili(who have both played like shit this season) but it seems strange to throw it at Duncan.

NBA.com's efficiency stat is little different:

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/860/nbaeff.jpg

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

Again, both lists have their problems(Kevin Martin for instance) but the fact that Duncan's ranked highly on both says a lot about how good he's been this season(so far anyway). I'm just pointing out that the gap isn't as huge as Mav fans make it out to be.

link? proof? How the hell do you know that? Can you tell me who's winning the superbowl? I'm tired of waiting.

Cry Havoc

12-22-2009, 10:54 PM

For the record, I'd like to say that I think it's bunk that Spurs fans are using the PER in this argument.

O.J Mayo

12-23-2009, 02:14 AM

All of you guys are stupid arguing for both Duncan and Dirk because Zach Randolph is the best PF in the NBA.

32 points and 24 rebounds against the Nuggets and 33 points and 18 rebounds against the Warriors. Dirk can't do that against these two teams. Zach can. The Grizzlies will be the best team in the league before long and it will be because of me and Zach.