Nail in the coffin for you Laker fans.

[MiamiHeat]

1. Playoff PPG All Time (http://www.nba.com/statistics/encyc/Player.jsp)

2. PPG All Time (http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersPPGQuery.html?topic=4&stat=0)

Kobe will never be as good as MJ was.

Next off is the following:

Also, Kobe in the finals. This is how they performed in the finals.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-06-15-zillgitt_x.htm

In 35 Finals games, Jordan averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists a game on 48% FG
In 30 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 24.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 5.3 assists a game on 41% FG

Also MJ has 5 finals in the top 15 all time with all 6 in the top 26 and Kobe has 0 finals performances in the top 50 and has a all time top 10 worst finals performance.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-2

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-Worst



Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers, 2004
Lakers vs. Pistons -- Bryant's PER 14.2
With his feud against Shaq escalating and the series getting away from the Lakers, Bryant began taking whatever shot struck him. Mostly, they struck the rim -- he shot 38.1 percent and had nearly as many turnovers (18) as assists (22) as Detroit romped in five games.



MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1
Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option and best player); Kobe = 1 (as the best player on team) 3 (2nd best player on team)
Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 1
DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0
Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2
Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 4381 (175 games)
FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.64
Playoff PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 28.59 (highest ever); Kobe = 22.04
Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG
Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6



Here were the requirements
NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS:
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)
This is how it broke down each category:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dupree-team_x.htm

This is how it broke down each category:
NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won (five points each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical titles (two points each) — restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest
Career averages (six points each) — if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage
Career playoff averages (five points each) — for each category the player leads

That was the criteria used
1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points
Now adding up the current players you get (Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 87 total points
2nd Place: Tim, 74 total points
3rd Place: KB, 66 total points

To show the greatness of MJ he never has had a playoff series where he was outscored nor has he ever had a series where he averaged less than 26.6 ppg. Also MJ averaged over 31+ ppg in every playoffs after his rookie year (where he averaged 29.3 ppg in his rookie year)

Jordan's playoffs career average is: 33.4 PPG / 6.4 RPG / 5.7 APG / 2.1 SPG / 0.9 BPG / 49% FG / 28.59 PER



http://www.freewebs.com/bignall/simpsons_apu.jpg

[dirk4mvp]

Jordan never rang without Pippen, and the team was damn there as good without him.

You can tell when someone's mad when they resort to stealing Culburn's swag.

Nothing new here. laker fans getting chode bloaded by MiamiHeat.

[Mavs_man_41]

Jordan never rang without Pippen, and the team was damn there as good without him.

yeah, 2nd round = 6 straight championships

[KSeal]

LMAO MiamiHeat. Kobe isn't even close to as good as Jordan and LeBron is probably the best player in the game. Why do you spend all day here obsessing over a person that you hate so much? It's just depressing.

[dirk4mvp]

You Mavs fags are riding high this morning, huh? Don't worry, your days are numbered.

We own that ass, sans Josh Howard. Don't talk to daddy like that.

[usdane]

Did you know that Michael Jordan's win pct. without Pippen Jordan was around 400.

[KSeal]

James is not on Kobe's level.

That's why I said probably. It's pretty damn close IMO.

[usdane]

MJ NEVER made it out of the first round without Pippen.

MJ had a 1-10 Playoff record without Pippen.

[KSeal]

James attacks the basket stronger than Kobe, but Kobe has lost a few steps and most of his hops. Skill wise its not even close, but James is good.

They're definitely different kind of players. But I think it's close to a toss up for what they both provide regardless of how they do it.

[mosdef17]

There is 1, and only 1, reason why you cannot compare the two of them;

Kobe is still playing. Wait until both careers are over.

[dirk4mvp]

There is 1, and only 1, reason why you cannot compare the two of them;

Kobe is still playing. Wait until both careers are over.

Why? They've both played the same amount.

[21_Blessings]

That's why I said probably. It's pretty damn close IMO.

About as close as Kobe is to Jordan.

[MiamiHeat]

MJ NEVER made it out of the first round without Pippen.

Jordan was drafted in 1984, Pippen in 1987.

That means Jordan played only 3 seasons before Pippen was drafted.

In those 3 seasons -

1985 - Rookie Michael Jordan dragged a lottery, horrible team to the playoffs but lost to Milwaukee, led by all-time great Sidney Moncrief and Ricky Pierce.

1986 - Jordan again led his team to the playoffs and put up 63 pts in a playoff game vs one of the best defenses in NBA History, the 1986 Celtics. His record of 63 pts in a game still stands as the All-Time playoff record. Jordan averaged 43.7 points per game in the series. The Celtics would go on to become the NBA Champions that year.

1987 - Jordan again led his team to the playoffs, and once again met the Boston Celtics. Celtics won the Eastern Conference championship, went on to the Finals, but lost to the Lakers.


That's how great he was. Just having MJ on the team, the Bulls went from lottery garbage to playoffs in his rookie year.




MJ had a 1-10 Playoff record without Pippen.

Actually, it's 1-9, and that was already answered.

[MiamiHeat]

About as close as Kobe is to Jordan.

LeBron is a better player than Kobe is

if I had to build around one of them, I'm taking LeBron and I guarantee most Gm's feel the same way right now.

and neither of them is even close to MJ

MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1
Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option and best player); Kobe = 1 (as the best player on team) 3 (2nd best player on team)
Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 1
DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0
Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2
Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 4381 (175 games)
FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.64
Playoff PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 28.59 (highest ever); Kobe = 22.04
Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG
Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6

[Chillen]

Of course Kobe isn't as good as MJ, who is?

As for Jordan having Pippen to win NBA titles, any NBA player needs to be surrounded by talent to win the whole thing and dominate the game. Even the games greatest needed help to win it all. No NBA player can play 1 on 5 and win it all :).

[usdane]

Jordan was drafted in 1984, Pippen in 1987.

That means Jordan played only 3 seasons before Pippen was drafted.

In those 3 seasons -

1985 - Rookie Michael Jordan dragged a lottery, horrible team to the playoffs but lost to Milwaukee, led by all-time great Sidney Moncrief and Ricky Pierce.

1986 - Jordan again led his team to the playoffs and put up 63 pts in a playoff game vs one of the best defenses in NBA History, the 1986 Celtics. His record of 63 pts in a game still stands as the All-Time playoff record. Jordan averaged 43.7 points per game in the series. The Celtics would go on to become the NBA Champions that year.

1987 - Jordan again led his team to the playoffs, and once again met the Boston Celtics. Celtics won the Eastern Conference championship, went on to the Finals, but lost to the Lakers.


That's how great he was. Just having MJ on the team, the Bulls went from lottery garbage to playoffs in his rookie year.




Actually, it's 1-9, and that was already answered.


So MJ never played for the Wizards in your mind? It is interesting that Pippen was able to advance deep into the playoffs without MJ while MJ barely could keep his teams around 400 win pct.

Also enjoy some more nuanced perspective in the article i linked for you.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/311555-why-kobejordan-debate-is-closer-than-it-seems

[boston.balla]

LeBron is a better player than Kobe is

if I had to build around one of them, I'm taking LeBron and I guarantee most Gm's feel the same way right now.

and neither of them is even close to MJ

MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 1
Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option and best player); Kobe = 1 (as the best player on team) 3 (2nd best player on team)
Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 1
DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0
Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2
Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 25.0
Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 4381 (175 games)
FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.64
Playoff PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 28.59 (highest ever); Kobe = 22.04
Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG
Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6


Just qouted this but could have quoted more than half the post... you people have no knowledge of this game whatsoever. You don't look at circumstances of how those stats were attained. Of how rings were attained. Of how finals mvp were attained. Just wake up. It's not about stats or being media spoon fed to godhood. Kobe is right up there, on par i might add. It amazes me that there is so much ignorance on these boards.

[anonoftheinternets]

So MJ never played for the Wizards in your mind? It is interesting that Pippen was able to advance deep into the playoffs without MJ while MJ barely could keep his teams around 400 win pct.

Also enjoy some more nuanced perspective in the article i linked for you.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/311555-why-kobejordan-debate-is-closer-than-it-seems

lol bleacher report ...

[Culburn369]

MJ NEVER made it out of the first round without Pippen.

MJ had a 1-10 Playoff record without Pippen.

Ouch!

[ElNono]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/27732/original/1251212864926.png?1258835233

[Culburn369]

That, and a 4-1 Mavs uprisin'.

tee, hee.

[ElNono]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/14061/original/Pedobear_2_by_Nossek.jpg?1251765776

[DAF86]

Kobe never made it past the first round of the playoffs without Shaq or Gasol, in fact he didn't even make it to the playoffs one season (or was it two seasons?), so Lakers fans may want to re-think the "Pippen argument".

[LakeShow]

Just qouted this but could have quoted more than half the post... you people have no knowledge of this game whatsoever. You don't look at circumstances of how those stats were attained. Of how rings were attained. Of how finals mvp were attained. Just wake up. It's not about stats or being media spoon fed to godhood. Kobe is right up there, on par i might add. It amazes me that there is so much ignorance on these boards.

:toast Excellent observation. Most of these snotty nose kids never even seen Jordan play. If you're going by stats and accomplishments, Wilt and Bill are the g.o.a.t's. No one else is even in the discussions.

When it's all said and done, Kobe Jellybean Bryant will go down in history as the G.O.A.T

[Culburn369]

15, El, like your 3 + that strike 1.

tee, hee.

[ElNono]

15, El, like your 3 + that strike 1.

tee, hee.

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/335/original/Pedobearbusted.jpg

[Culburn369]

I got a seat. I'm home.

[Double-Up]

Who gives a FUCK about comparing Jordan w/o Pippen? All the loaded teams Kobe's played on and still couldn't win it all tells the story right there. Kobe's team ALWAYS had more talent surrounding him than Jordan.

[ElNono]

I got a seat. I'm home.

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/29350/original/1258961927783.jpg?1260032686

[Culburn369]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/29350/original/1258961927783.jpg?1260032686

- "sssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh."

- Derek Fisher - June.15.2001 - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

[Culburn369]

Who gives a FUCK about comparing Jordan w/o Pippen?

Because it's germane. Jordan couldn't ring/sans Pippen. Kobe rang/sans Daddy.

Dems the facts, Double.

[ElNono]

http://knowyourmeme.com/i/340/original/Pedobear-watch.jpg

[Culburn369]

It'll never end.

[Double-Up]

Because it's germane. Jordan couldn't ring/sans Pippen. Kobe rang/sans Daddy.

Dems the facts, Double.


No it ain't...Jordan was ALWAYS the BEST PLAYER on his TEAM. Pippen is a good 2nd man but after that it was all down hill. Kobe has ALWAYS had better talent surrounding him.

[Culburn369]

Jordan couldn't do caca without Pippen...EVER.

Kobe rang fine/sans Daddy.

[LakeShow]

Jordan couldn't do caca without Pippen...EVER.

Kobe rang fine/sans Daddy.

Don't forget about Jackson. Jordan was one of the most hated players in the league by his peers before Jackson toned down his game. He was called a very selfish player and team mates would call him out often on his failure to include his team mates in a game.

[ChrisRichards]

- "sssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh."

- Derek Fisher - June.15.2001 - Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
hot damn :lol

[Sportcamper]

Are the Miami Heat even in the NBA anymore?

[ChrisRichards]

Are the Miami Heat even in the NBA anymore?
no they're gone :rolleyes

[Allanon]

MJ NEVER made it out of the first round without Pippen.

MJ had a 1-10 Playoff record without Pippen.

There goes the "Kobe needed Shaq/Gasol" point comparison with MJ.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe is NOT as good as Jordan ...and? Thing that cracks me up but OP loved to make the argument that Kobe was<Wade but now that wade is in the worst slump of his brief (but amazing career) he will pull the Jordan card ...
Well Kobe is less than MJ but Wade is not as close to Kobe as many think ...As LAker fans 1st doesnt matter to me that Kobe is < MJ but Im glad that we are MUCH better than the HEat ..LOL!

[lil_penny]

Jordan >kobe its that simple

[Venti Quattro]

Jordan >kobe its that simple

Yawn so effortless and not well-thought

[Kobe™]

2jrQ5k83Ats
(6:59)
Magic: You're the one guy who has the chance to be the greatest player who has ever played this game.

Kobe: I don't even know what that means.

Kobe: To be in that discussion is enough for me, because its IMPOSSIBLE to say that one player is the best.


Not to say that Kobe won't be regarded to some as the "GOAT", as he's already the greatest in this era, but some need to remember that the fact that he's forcing a comparison to MJ and is mentioned amongst the greatest is already a massive achievement in its own right.

Everyone's saying the "Mountain" to Ultimate Greatness and being the Superlative Basketball player is impossible to reach, but remember the will and strength of the man who is climbing that mountain.

[lil_penny]

Yawn so effortless and not well-thought

Don't get me wrong, kobes is a stud. But he's no jordan.. there's a thousand of these threads on this forum. Thought id give my 2 cents in at least on of them while keeping it short and sweet.

[Goran Dragic]

MJ NEVER made it out of the first round without Pippen.


Kobe never made it out of the first round sans Gasol or Shaq

[Goran Dragic]

:lmao @ ElNono's bear pictures.

[Goran Dragic]

Kobe can't even make the playoffs without Phil Jackson or Shaq.

[Culburn369]

Yer O & 41!

[TheMACHINE]

LOL per MiamiHeat, Kobe isnt even close to Jordan, the states all the numbers...then says Lebron is better then Kobe. What a hypocritical mother fucker. haha

[spursncowboys]

Jordan never rang without Pippen, and the team was damn there as good without him.
The team was almost as good without jordan???

[Allanon]

The team was almost as good without jordan???

Yes.

With Jordan... 57 wins.
Without Jordan the year after... 55 wins.

[mindcrime]

Yes.

With Jordan... 57 wins.
Without Jordan the year after... 55 wins.

With Jordan... 57 wins + 1993 Champions
Without Jordan the year after... 55 wins + Second round exit.

Not exactly the same outcome is it.

[ChrisRichards]

With Jordan... 57 wins + 1993 Champions
Without Jordan the year after... 55 wins + Second round exit.

Not exactly the same outcome is it.
no but jordan with pippen the next year-second round exit too. so its the same, is it?

[mindcrime]

no but jordan with pippen the next year-second round exit too. so its the same, is it?

The following year Jordan played partial season. He really should have waited to come back because he wasn't in bball shape and they lost. Only to follow that loss with 3 more ships.

[Banzai]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/4/GARYCOLEMAN.jpg (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=1476)
http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/threadugly8wy.gif (http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10062/threadugly8wy.gif)