Catholic defense of same-sex Marriage

[Supergirl]

http://www.religiousconsultation.org/Catholic_defense_of_same_sex_marriage.htm

[Winehole23]

I'd have left the indefinite article in the banner.

*A Catholic defense*

[spursncowboys]

The Acts quote from the article was about animals. Another quote from Acts 10 is 28 "And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean."

Objection 1 relies on Old Testament Laws. That really only pertains to Jews, since Christians don't really follow, verbatim, Leviticus. I am not sure but think the Orthodox Jews are the only ones who follow that word for word.

Good article. I like any article that brings up Thomas Aquinas. The whole basis though is that Since God made people gay then it is not a sin. I feel it is a choice, but what about people who become straight after being gay? I know of a ex lesbian who got married and has kids with a guy. She was in a group where she could have chosen either lifestyle without chastising. Is she just born gay and is living out of how she should be living?

[Supergirl]

.

Good article. I like any article that brings up Thomas Aquinas. The whole basis though is that Since God made people gay then it is not a sin. I feel it is a choice, but what about people who become straight after being gay? I know of a ex lesbian who got married and has kids with a guy. She was in a group where she could have chosen either lifestyle without chastising. Is she just born gay and is living out of how she should be living?

There's no evidence to suggest you can change your sexual orientation. Now, I am sure there are a few people out there who identify as 'ex-gay' who in fact are bisexual, and can find sexually fulfilling monogamous relationships with members of the opposite sex.

But there's a lot more 'ex-gay' people who are not really all that ex. Most wind up going back into the closet until they can't live there anymore, and then come out again, or they have a secret gay life on the side.

Personally, I think sexual orientation a matter of biology. I don't really think most people are completely hetero or homo, I think we all have certain things that turn our cranks. For most people that's one gender, for plenty of people it's either gender, and for lots of people it's more about one particular act or one particular fetish more than it is about gender in the first place.

I think what turns people's cranks is no one's business but their own and their partner(s).

What legal rights we give citizens and whether we give those rights out equally, and how we treat people - that says a lot about who we are as a society.

[iggypop123]

sexuality is a social construction

[spursncowboys]

There's no evidence to suggest you can change your sexual orientation. Now, I am sure there are a few people out there who identify as 'ex-gay' who in fact are bisexual, and can find sexually fulfilling monogamous relationships with members of the opposite sex.
There is no evidence that shows a gay gene. I would have to believe there are more gay acts because of experimenting than with a born identity.
I almost missed that. Are you saying that someone can never be "ex-gay"? That they have to be bisexual? This girl was always straight then had a relationship with a female and after they broke up she went back to men and married a man. It was a direct result of acceptance of experimenting with sexuality before marriage.

But there's a lot more 'ex-gay' people who are not really all that ex. Most wind up going back into the closet until they can't live there anymore, and then come out again, or they have a secret gay life on the side. I don't think the closet is that filled anymore. There are probably more people who did a gay act who will live their life with straight relationships. Every girl in hs and college come to mind.

[Crookshanks]

That is the dumbest article I've read in a long while. Also very incorrect. In Romans, it clearly says that homosexuality is an abomination. While some people may be more predisposed towards the same sex, homosexuality is a choice - a sinful choice. It is not genetic, nor is it part of God's plan.

[xellos88330]

I think of this subject this way.

If God had intended to make some people homosexual, then why wouldn't he have made things easier and just make 1 sex.

Homosexuality is a choice, not some sort of birth defect.

I think it is wrong. It just goes against nature.

I personally think that homosexuality is due to stress. A guy cannot seem to fit in or is constantly scoffed at by other men, so he tries to find a place that he can be accepted. He goes off and finds that in a group of women, however, women often choose 'Alpha Male' types and the man cannot seem to nab one. This might cause some stress and could create a concept that the only way he can ever be accepted by other guys is to suck his dick. After all that is the closed he could ever be to an 'Alpha male' type. The only stress left is to find one that will let him get that close.

Women prefer to be connected on an emotional scale. It is in the way they are. What better way to get that than other women. Most of the desireable guys don't need really do the whole emotional thing well. The main complaint with heterosexual couples is the fact that women feel that they aren't being understood correctly. Women, however can understand each other quite well. This creates the attraction for this particular same sex relationship.

This is just my opinion based on what I have seen from homosexuals that I have known throughout my life. They all seem to have had the same problems.

[Supergirl]

I think of this subject this way.

If God had intended to make some people homosexual, then why wouldn't he have made things easier and just make 1 sex.

Homosexuality is a choice, not some sort of birth defect.

I think it is wrong. It just goes against nature.

I personally think that homosexuality is due to stress. A guy cannot seem to fit in or is constantly scoffed at by other men, so he tries to find a place that he can be accepted. He goes off and finds that in a group of women, however, women often choose 'Alpha Male' types and the man cannot seem to nab one. This might cause some stress and could create a concept that the only way he can ever be accepted by other guys is to suck his dick. After all that is the closed he could ever be to an 'Alpha male' type. The only stress left is to find one that will let him get that close.

Women prefer to be connected on an emotional scale. It is in the way they are. What better way to get that than other women. Most of the desireable guys don't need really do the whole emotional thing well. The main complaint with heterosexual couples is the fact that women feel that they aren't being understood correctly. Women, however can understand each other quite well. This creates the attraction for this particular same sex relationship.

This is just my opinion based on what I have seen from homosexuals that I have known throughout my life. They all seem to have had the same problems.

Hahahahahahahahaha. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

[Supergirl]

There is no evidence that shows a gay gene. I would have to believe there are more gay acts because of experimenting than with a born identity.
I almost missed that. Are you saying that someone can never be "ex-gay"? That they have to be bisexual? This girl was always straight then had a relationship with a female and after they broke up she went back to men and married a man. It was a direct result of acceptance of experimenting with sexuality before marriage.
I don't think the closet is that filled anymore. There are probably more people who did a gay act who will live their life with straight relationships. Every girl in hs and college come to mind.

No one said anything about a gay "gene." Sexuality is a matter of what turns your crank, what turns you on.

But sexuality, in terms of labels like "gay", "bisexual", and "straight" is a social construction. But sexual urges are innate and for the most part unchangeable. Which doesn't mean there can't be some people who are a little turned on by one gender but also turned on by the other gender, or people who are turned on by both genders equally. It also doesn't mean some people won't repress their desires for what society (or religious bigots) tell them they should want.

[Blake]

I personally think that homosexuality is due to stress.

That's a new one

[Blake]

No one said anything about a gay "gene." Sexuality is a matter of what turns your crank, what turns you on.


you stated: "There's no evidence to suggest you can change your sexual orientation"

This statement makes little sense on it's own unless you are implying that we are born with a certain orientation.

[spursncowboys]

Supergirl: Are you saying that someone can never be "ex-gay"? That they have to be bisexual? Instead of gene what if I changed it to it being in the DNA?

[I. Hustle]

If someone can't be "ex-gay" then why are people who were married and had relationships then jump ship and go after the same sex considered gay all along? Isn't it the same thing?

[xellos88330]

Hahahahahahahahaha. This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

If I were to have explained it deeper, it would have taken me all night. It is a brief rundown of things that I have seen from homosexuals.

They all really do seem to be under great deals of stress. Lesbians maybe not so much. I mean the female body is just gorgeous, so I completely understand the attraction.

[Winehole23]

If God had intended to make some people homosexual, then why wouldn't he have made things easier and just make 1 sex.Just for grins, here's Aristophanes' discourse on love from the Symposium.

http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/sym.htm

[Winehole23]

It's way sillier than what you just said xello, but Aristophanes silliness has the greater explanatory value IMO.

[AussieFanKurt]

the catholic church can suck on my ballsack

[Winehole23]

The suck my balls card has been played.

[Supergirl]

If I were to have explained it deeper, it would have taken me all night. It is a brief rundown of things that I have seen from homosexuals.

They all really do seem to be under great deals of stress. Lesbians maybe not so much. I mean the female body is just gorgeous, so I completely understand the attraction.

well if all the gay men you know are under a lot of stress, the common denominator is YOU. what are YOU doing to cause them stress? are you making homophobic comments to them, too? Cause that might cause them some stress.

or maybe it's just that living as an oppressed minority can cause stress.

[Supergirl]

Supergirl: Are you saying that someone can never be "ex-gay"? That they have to be bisexual? Instead of gene what if I changed it to it being in the DNA?

I am saying that nothing is as black and white as some people on this message board keep trying to make things.

Some of the people who claim to be "ex-gay" are likely bisexuals who adopt the "ex-gay" label because they can (i.e. they found someone of the opp sex to settle down with) and it is supported by their bigoted church. There are also, btw, plenty of bisexual people who find partners of the opp sex who don't go around denying their same-sex relations in the past or claiming that they're "cured" now.

Some of the people who claim to be "ex-gay" are closet cases who are either successfully repressing their desires (which, btw, doesn't make them any less "gay") or continuing same-sex relations while pretending to be straight.

If you were ever attracted to someone of the same gender, that makes you a little bit "not straight". You can choose to identify however the hell you want to, that's every person's right, but it's just the fact. Just because that person leaves your life, or even if you never act on those feelings, it makes you not a "Kinsey 0".

And I would harbor a guess (and there is data to support this, including from the famous Kinsey himself) that a LOT more people are not Kinsey 0s than the bigots want to admit.

[Winehole23]

the catholic church can suck on my ballsackYou have to join first.

[sabar]

Nearly everything humans do go against nature, typically for the better. A religious viewpoint on any issue is useless in governing the people. The religious will look to their omnipotent church and parrot their viewpoint, just as "We the people" latch onto a political party and endorse their viewpoint for no benefit in return.

[Winehole23]

for no benefit in return.Ostensibly not. I guess the pride of place is serviceable all by itself.

[spursncowboys]

Nearly everything humans do go against nature, typically for the better. A religious viewpoint on any issue is useless in governing the people. The religious will look to their omnipotent church and parrot their viewpoint, just as "We the people" latch onto a political party and endorse their viewpoint for no benefit in return.

Do you personally know religious people? It is not in our culture as Americans to follow the church like that.

[nkdlunch]

LMAO at Catholics still around