Spurs problems are not fixable...

[xtremesteven33]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed

[Mal]

It is fixable. Trade Parker for a pass -first PG, and get some defensive stopper.

[ducks]

yeah spurs never won a title with tp

[ducks]

oh and d williams 6 turnovers tonight
and jazz scored what 70 points to the heat on the road?

[ducks]

because playoffs start in dec right?

[HarlemHeat37]

The first 3 don't concern me at all..

The last 2 concern me though..the Manu concern MIGHT be fixable without a move, I'll give him a few more weeks to see if his scoring returns..

the defensive weapons concern is something I've been saying for a while, and a trade is the only thing that will address that, particularly for a mobile big..

[Mal]

yeah spurs never won a title with tp

I`ve been watching Spurs for whole Duncan era, and didn`t remember if they play such crap ever

[NZ Spurs]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed

Wow that's in-depth. You should write for ESPN.

[Ice009]

Edit : np.

[4everSpurFan]

Outrebounded too small. Old team with no play makers!
Spurs team = FAIL!

Bunch of the retards on here that THINK this squad has a chance is full of shit!
So what if it's barely December... Major changes need to start and trade TD and Manu as a bundle for 3 young talented ballers and let's start over.

[ItsOnlyDecember]

because playoffs start in dec right?


:toast

[NickiRasgo]

Bowen is a big lost.

[cd98]

To me, the offense is not the problem. The Spus shot well enough to win. It's the defense that can't stop the Blazer's third string players on a second night of a back to back. Granted the Blazers made some improbable shots, but you can't ignore the fact that the Spurs looked like the team playing 4 games in 5 nights.

[ElNono]

It's not the offense... it's the defense... We again gave up a ton of offensive rebounds...
We even shot better than Portland in the first half, but they had 11 more possessions, so they ended up with more points...

To be honest, losing Bowen was more devastating than we all thought. Tony is sleepwalking on defense, and Manu is trying but his body is just not responding right now...

[Supergirl]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed

Jefferson's game is fine for the Spurs, the Spurs just aren't sure who'se coming or going and aren't adapting well to minor injuries that affect their rotation.

Parker, Hill, Manu, and Mason can all be decent playmakers. Parker had a poor game tonight, and it had nothing to do with the Blazers, really.

Duncan is fine. Duncan played great tonight, despite getting hammered every trip down the lane. He just got very little help, until it was too late.

Spurs beat themselves tonight. They came out like they expected the Blazers to roll over for them because they were depleted, but this was a Blazers team that still had Aldridge, Webster, and Bayless, who have all proven before tonight they can play ball.

It's just one game. The problems of the Spurs are bigger than this one game, but this one game really was just a matter of the Spurs not coming out to play. Nothing more complex than that.

[it's me]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Parker isn't a real PG never will be.



Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Jefferson used to be a good player ... in crappy teams.... but dude's a looser.


Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

lol finals MVP....... this isn't new.... last playoffs???


Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

LOL Bruce is old.... LOL Jefferson will be our new "elite" defender.....


Manu is no longer an all-star...

LOL Manu......... he's no more..... just erase Manu from your minds.....

[murpjf88]

because playoffs start in dec right?

You can only say that for seven more days. What will your next excuse be? Its only January?

[shingo_318]

Jefferson used to be a good player ... in crappy teams.... but dude's a looser.


spurs is a crappy team now

[murpjf88]

It is fixable. Trade Parker for a pass -first PG, and get some defensive stopper.

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

[Xevious]

You can only say that for seven more days. What will your next excuse be? Its only January?
Exactly... people need to drop that.

[Bender]

they suck that's for sure. Manu is a shadow of his former self. So many other teams just play a better all around game.

[Spursox]

NOT FIXABLE...With Bowen gone, we don't have someone to stop or slow down guys like Bayless (Career Night). The output tonight was pathetic! Outhustled, outcoached and outplayed by a younger, hungrier, less experienced, and less manned team!

[Sean Cagney]

TD and Manu shouldve been traded 5 years ago

the spurs are an embarrassment

Trade them 5 years ago, okay they won two titles in those years! Yes trade them before you you get #3 and #4......

[xtremesteven33]

Damn I made this thread thinking they werent gonna lose this game either....:depressed


Sad day to be a Spurs fan.

[murpjf88]

I'm not sure why people want Tony traded? He's only 27 and just beginning to peak. I agree, he's been a joke thus far, but for the last three years, he has been the catalyst for the spurs offense.

Trading TP would be a mistake because the spurs won't get equal value in return. It would be like starting over.

[Höfner]

Manu's not fixable, rather.

[pjjrfan]

the problems are fixable. The offense which has been good was terrible tonight, when the Blazers took out timmy the Spurs were lost on offense, and on defense no one could stay in fron of any of the Blazers. the difference was effort, the Blazers had it the Spurs didn't. Maybe our big three is burned out. the game looked like the new guys were waiting on the big three to make some plays and get them started, after the first half it never happened.

[xtremesteven33]

Playmaking ability is a needed talent to thrive in the Spurs system. Players like Manu,Jackson,Horry,Barry could thrive in the Spurs system for so many years because they had that natural playmaking ability to make the extra pass or know how to shake a defensive scheme.

Bogan,RJ and Parker dont have that mentality. Parker and Jefferson have the same mindset and that is to score most of the time. They have not shown the ability to improvise team offensive schemes on the fly. Spurs need more playmakers to keep the ball moving. They all look lost and unsure right now.

Parker doesnt know how to run a fast break. He can have 3 guys running with him and still find a way to turnover the ball. Unacceptable. Especially for a former NBA Finals MVP....

[murpjf88]

It ultimately comes down to shooting and defense. The spurs can't shut teams down like they did in the past. The shooting is very sporadic to say the least. I hold my breath everytime the spurs shoot a three. If you put the least amount of pressure on the shooter, they brick it bad or they hit the side of the backboard.

[newacc]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed

The Spurs need Parker to score. Parker has titles with this team. Yeah, this team doesn't have the same chemistry but sounds like your solution is to roll over and die.

There are plenty of pieces to make a run and I believe the Spurs usually start turning the corner in the coming month.

A little TMZ of you to start giving up now.

[Baseline]

Here's what is scary. Let's say that both Gasol and Bynum both tear an ACL on Christmas Day against Cleveland. Wow, then the Spurs would cakewalk to the West title, right?

Dude, guess what...we're not even in the top 8 seeds right now.

Last year, I would've said that we could have won the West if Gasol went down. Yet this year, we're healthy except for Bonner and Finley, we have way better players than last year, yet we're still the 9th place team in the West. Unbelievable.

When are people going to start blaming Popovich for this disgrace? Why does he get a free pass? Isn't it obvious? Our guys play with fire about 3% of the time, and that's only with 2 minutes left in the game.

There is no switch to flip this year. Pop has the guys playing scared, and nobody is loose. He has Parker confused and Jefferson lost (and scared to make a mistake). Well, those guys are making about 25 million between them, not to mention Manu, who makes 10 million and is so inconsistent that he's unrecognizable. He's only "on" about one of of every 5 games.

Peter Holt must be livid right now.

[murpjf88]

Sacramento, Houston, Oklahoma City, and Memphis aren't going to roll over and die. If the spurs continue to play like this, their won't be a playoffs.

[draft87]

yeah spurs never won a title with tp


oh and d williams 6 turnovers tonight
and jazz scored what 70 points to the heat on the road?


because playoffs start in dec right?


At least ducks talks to himself now.......

[mexicanjunior]

Sacramento, Houston, Oklahoma City, and Memphis aren't going to roll over and die. If the spurs continue to play like this, their won't be a playoffs.

Yep...

[Capt Bringdown]

I'm starting to feel less pissed off about the Gasol trade, as it's clear that the league has moved on since '07. We've been looking up instead of looking down at the competition since then.
We can squeeze out a good game now and then, and we might even salvage a decent record, but championship Spurs ball is long gone.
The pieces just aren't there anymore. Or rather they're there, but it's not 2005 anymore.

[TJastal]

Might be time to start thinking about playing Ratliff more reguarily to help on defense. Both Parker and Ginobili's eroding man to man defense almost requires having a shot blocker out there or teams are going to take turns torching these two on drives to the basket. The small ball idea Pop tried in the 3rd quarter with RJ trying to guard Aldridge went predictably south. I'm not sure why Pop didn't use him last night.

Alot of guys had bad games. McDyess had a few costly turnovers again and a handful of unnecessary fouls. George Hill had another stinker of a game on offense.

But quietly, Roger Mason had yet another solid game, showcasing his clutch shooting and improving ball handling/playmaking skills. Popovich needs to get this guy in the starting lineup IMO. In big games against the big dogs, this guy shows up, unlike Bogans.

[Agloco]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed


The first 3 don't concern me at all..

The last 2 concern me though..the Manu concern MIGHT be fixable without a move, I'll give him a few more weeks to see if his scoring returns..

the defensive weapons concern is something I've been saying for a while, and a trade is the only thing that will address that, particularly for a mobile big..


Fully agreed. One of the first things I noted was that Manu hasn't been the same since his 5 game layoff earlier in the season. He looks all of 32 and then some. Bottom line? If Manu can't get back to at least 85%, we're done.

Beating crappy teams by 15 doesn't tell me anything. The fact that the Spurs are about 2-10 against any team with a winning record? That tells me everything I need to know.

[Chomag]

Fully agreed. One of the first things I noted was that Manu hasn't been the same since his 5 game layoff earlier in the season. He looks all of 32 and then some. Bottom line? If Manu can't get back to at least 85%, we're done.

Beating crappy teams by 15 doesn't tell me anything. The fact that the Spurs are about 2-10 against any team with a winning record? That tells me everything I need to know.


X1
Just as Agloco said if Manu doesnt at least get to 85% there is no championship. It's either just tank or hope spurs make some moves to try to fix this season.

IF Manu cant get his game going, sorry Manu fans but Spurs might need to use his expiring to entice a trade for a good player from another team.

[Man In Black]

Dude, guess what...we're not even in the top 8 seeds right now.

Wrong and you should know to check your facts.
http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html

The Spurs are Currently #7 in the West.

It ain't where the Spurs are used to being true but 7 of 8 means they are still in.

[SpurNation]

It's amazing that a person with the speed of Parker cannot defend better. Fixable? Well...This is all on Parker. Somehow I get the feeling Parker doesn't care to improve in that area.

Ginobili's body is just too old and beat up to compete as he once did. A loss that cannnot be fixed.

I would suspect what the powers at be were thinking regarding RJ is obviously not what they're getting thus far from his defense and rebounding. But honestly...I can't understand why they thought they would be getting more than what he's been doing thus far since his numbers over the past 3 years didn't reflect he would be any different than what he's playing now. Fixable? Definately the biggest waste of money out of all the players on the team.

Bogans is an experiment in the recourse of loosing Bowen without all the benefits that an experienced, taller Bowen used to be able to provide on a consistent basis. "His spot/His shot" will not be heard again with this team. Might be fixable but highly unlikely.

Hill is about where he was at the end of last year. Too early to tell if he can step up to a higher level of play on a consistent basis. Fixable? Ever since his hard fall incident he seems to play more tentative than when he first started. Sometimes the mental is harder to fix.

Mason? The most improved player on the team thus far compared to other perimeter players from last year. He has fixed many areas of his game he lacked last year but...one can't expect him to become a Ginobili.

Our post? The biggest non-fixable element of the team. Not enough youth, talent and physical attributes rolled into any single player to be counted on to provide the team with consistent play when Duncan is not on the court OR compliment Duncan when he is on the court. This has been the biggest failure thus far. And I'm not saying the FO is all at fault here but it is definately going to be something not fixable without the aid of a trade.

Any team out there willing to give up that type of quality in a big or even have enough of those types of bigs to spare for a trade?

[xtremesteven33]

Rights to Splitter/Bonner/Ginobili for Chris Bosh.

[TJastal]

It's amazing that a person with the speed of Parker cannot defend better. Fixable? Well...This is all on Parker. Somehow I get the feeling Parker doesn't care to improve in that area.

Ginobili's body is just too old and beat up to compete as he once did. A loss that cannnot be fixed.

I would suspect what the powers at be were thinking regarding RJ is obviously not what they're getting thus far from his defense and rebounding. But honestly...I can't understand why they thought they would be getting more than what he's been doing thus far since his numbers over the past 3 years didn't reflect he would be any different than what he's playing now. Fixable? Definately the biggest waste of money out of all the players on the team.

Bogans is an experiment in the recourse of loosing Bowen without all the benefits that an experienced, taller Bowen used to be able to provide on a consistent basis. "His spot/His shot" will not be heard again with this team. Might be fixable but highly unlikely.

Hill is about where he was at the end of last year. Too early to tell if he can step up to a higher level of play on a consistent basis. Fixable? Ever since his hard fall incident he seems to play more tentative than when he first started. Sometimes the mental is harder to fix.

Mason? The most improved player on the team thus far compared to other perimeter players from last year. He has fixed many areas of his game he lacked last year but...one can't expect him to become a Ginobili.

Our post? The biggest non-fixable element of the team. Not enough youth, talent and physical attributes rolled into any single player to be counted on to provide the team with consistent play when Duncan is not on the court OR compliment Duncan when he is on the court. This has been the biggest failure thus far. And I'm not saying the FO is all at fault here but it is definately going to be something not fixable without the aid of a trade.

Any team out there willing to give up that type of quality in a big or even have enough of those types of bigs to spare for a trade?

We have a variety of bigs available, like tools in a toolbox, but Pop just isn't using them right. Last night Ratliff should have gotten 20 minutes to help close down the lane from Bayless and guard the taller jumpshooters Aldridge and Juwon Howard. I think he would have helped the spurs' defense enough to give the spurs a better chance at the end to snag the victory.

[TJastal]

Rights to Splitter/Bonner/Ginobili for Chris Bosh.

LOL, they would laugh in your face.

The last thing they need is another soft little defense playing 3pt shooting center. You'd have to throw in something more of value instead that they could actually use. Like George Hill.

Hill/Gino/Splitter might get them to actually pause instead of breaking out in hysterical laughter.

[Supergirl]

People are so fricking hysterical on this board. Yes, it was a bad loss, a pathetic game, but one that has no bearing on the Spurs flaws, big picture. The only person who beat the Spurs last night was the Spurs.

As for their bigger issues: Tony Parker is one of the best PGs in the league. He hasn't yet played his best ball this year, but that's because he's the quarterback for a team that is still figuring out their identity. He'll be fine. Duncan is putting up the best numbers of his career and carrying this team on his back.

RJ has shown he is more than capable on offense, the problem is figuring out the rotations and how to best use him. That will take time. It typically takes new Spurs a year to learn the offense. I certainly hope RJ can learn it faster than that, and he hasn't shown me anything yet to make me think he can't.

DeJuan Blair and Hill are the future of the Spurs. It will be Parker, Blair, and Hill's team in 5 years, and they will be GREAT. But right now they are rookies and learning and getting no respect from the refs.

This team has a huge upside, but it's in transition right now. It's a team that can still win 1-2 more championships with Duncan *IF* they can figure out how they can play together and get back to the basics on D. But it's also a team with a tremendous upside.

Manu is an open question, I agree. His contract is up this summer, and if he keeps paying like he's been playing this year, he won't be back. But I think he may have a few surprises up his sleeve in the second half of the season...we'll see.

[Bender]

It will be Parker, Blair, and Hill's team in 5 years...
I'd be surprised if tony was still here.

[ducks]

the problems are fixable. The offense which has been good was terrible tonight, when the Blazers took out timmy the Spurs were lost on offense, and on defense no one could stay in fron of any of the Blazers. the difference was effort, the Blazers had it the Spurs didn't. Maybe our big three is burned out. the game looked like the new guys were waiting on the big three to make some plays and get them started, after the first half it never happened.

spurs o is 5 in the nba

[spurtech09]

yeah the spurs never won championships right?

[4everSpurFan]

Spurs need ratliff out there to protect paint and minimize easy buckets.
Regardless of chemistry this team will not get past first round if they make it.

[Killakobe81]

Dwill is better than TP Last year? i would of given Parkewr a slight edge ...ESPECIALLY early in the year ...
BUt DWILL is and willbe the better player ...
Reality is though how many Pass first PG's are there in the NBA?
Kidd, Ty Lawson, Rondo? There are almost extinct like great big men ...Most Pg's are scoring combo gaurds like Nelson, Rose, Evans, Jennings Flyn Bayless westbrook etc.

[Josepatches_]

It is fixable. Trade Parker for a pass -first PG, and get some defensive stopper.


It would be perfect but it's not going to happen.


Yes,TP played great for us but right now we don't need his style of play if we want to be a tittle contender.He never will be a pass -first PG and he never will be as good to lead the team to the championship.And don't tell me about 2007 because TD was clearly the leading scorer of the team in the playoffs and Manu was the second best SG of the league.

But since 2007 at the same time TP's primacy was bigger we began to be worse.Shoot-first PG doesnt work to win the tittle even if you are as good as Iverson was in 2001.

[admiralsnackbar]

Jesus... enough with the crybabies already.

[Mr.Robinson]

Playmaking ability is a needed talent to thrive in the Spurs system. Players like Manu,Jackson,Horry,Barry could thrive in the Spurs system for so many years because they had that natural playmaking ability to make the extra pass or know how to shake a defensive scheme.

Bogan,RJ and Parker dont have that mentality. Parker and Jefferson have the same mindset and that is to score most of the time. They have not shown the ability to improvise team offensive schemes on the fly. Spurs need more playmakers to keep the ball moving. They all look lost and unsure right now.

Parker doesnt know how to run a fast break. He can have 3 guys running with him and still find a way to turnover the ball. Unacceptable. Especially for a former NBA Finals MVP....

His finals MVP was a joke.

[ducks]

you are just sore because manu has none and never will get one

[thOOdee]

fixable.
no small ball
get rid of bonner

[SenorSpur]

Playmaking ability is a needed talent to thrive in the Spurs system. Players like Manu,Jackson,Horry,Barry could thrive in the Spurs system for so many years because they had that natural playmaking ability to make the extra pass or know how to shake a defensive scheme.

Bogan,RJ and Parker dont have that mentality. Parker and Jefferson have the same mindset and that is to score most of the time. They have not shown the ability to improvise team offensive schemes on the fly. Spurs need more playmakers to keep the ball moving. They all look lost and unsure right now.

Parker doesnt know how to run a fast break. He can have 3 guys running with him and still find a way to turnover the ball. Unacceptable. Especially for a former NBA Finals MVP....

That's a key point right there. Pop has implored to team to run more when the opportunity arises and the Spurs do need more easy transition baskets. Yet, it doesn't matter how much they fast break if the PG doesn't know how to execute it. Up until this year, it was necessary for TP to be a one-man break.

Now that he has a couple of running mates to get out in transition with him, it's sickening to watch him put his head down and barrel into the lane by himself, despite a 1-on-2 or 1-on-3 situation. It's especially unforgiveable because he was one of the loudest proponents of making some roster upgrades. Yet, he's not adjusting his game to help those pieces fit.

Just as Robinson sacrificed and adjusted his game when Duncan arrived, so too must TP for RJ. The fact that he hasn't is unacceptable. Pop deserves a ton of blame here too.

[xtremesteven33]

I would say 80-90% of the teams struggle has to be put on Jefferson and Parker. Neither of them have shown signs of being allstars this year. I dont put too much blame on Manu because my expectations were just what I am seeing right now. Most of all I never question Manu's heart or his will to win games. It will always be apparent in his style of play.

Tony Parker is looking more and more like Allen Iverson. A great lone scorer but when he has weapons he seems to get confused when to score and when to be a teammate. I hope to God that this isnt the Spurs fate. To end with bad team chemistry. It doesnt seem like poetic justice for a Tim Duncan team to fall apart like this.

That loss against the Blazers should make a lot of fans want to vomit. Spurs fans who want to just brush it off and act like its nothing are in total denial. This is a serious problem the Spurs are facing. They better have plans on going on a 10-15 game winning streak right now or a trade better be in discussions, becuase the time for waiting for the game to just "come to you" is over. Go out there and win some games damnit...

[byrontx]

Spam!

[Indazone]

Bowen meant more to the Spurs than most were led to believe. He was the glue and the defensive stopper that the Spurs are missing right now.

[Mal]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg85m7f

I posted it only because it is obvious that Paul is going to be trade, so I just us trade machine and try to dump Parker for "maybe not pass-first PG, but a guy who could have 10 apg and can defend'

A team which would get Paul needs to receive Petterson/Songaila/Okafor/Peja contract. Spurs can`t receive Okafor/Peja contract so I throw bigger one from rest and this is 5,8 mln for Peterson next year. With Parker Spurs would send expiring contract of Finley and Theo only for cap rules. Also Spurs could send picks, rights etc.

Advantages for Spurs are obvious.

Hornets could save 3,3 mln + 3,3 mln of tax this year and 7 mln or greater next year, getting out of taxes.

This probably not going to happen because of division rivalry and there are teams willing to eat Okafor/Stojakovic contract only to get Paul. Nevertheless I just want to place it here and discuss.

[Chomag]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg85m7f

I posted it only because it is obvious that Paul is going to be trade, so I just us trade machine and try to dump Parker for "maybe not pass-first PG, but a guy who could have 10 apg and can defend'

A team which would get Paul needs to receive Petterson/Songaila/Okafor/Peja contract. Spurs can`t receive Okafor/Peja contract so I throw bigger one from rest and this is 5,8 mln for Peterson next year. With Parker Spurs would send expiring contract of Finley and Theo only for cap rules. Also Spurs could send picks, rights etc.

Advantages for Spurs are obvious.

Hornets could save 3,3 mln + 3,3 mln of tax this year and 7 mln or greater next year, getting out of taxes.

This probably not going to happen because of division rivalry and there are teams willing to eat Okafor/Stojakovic contract only to get Paul. Nevertheless I just want to place it here and discuss.

I love Paul's skills just can't stand the player and his drama antics. However I wonder if TD would keep him under controll there with his "Calm the Fuck down" comment. lol

[duhoh]

is this a troll post?

[Chomag]

I would say 80-90% of the teams struggle has to be put on Jefferson and Parker. Neither of them have shown signs of being allstars this year. I dont put too much blame on Manu because my expectations were just what I am seeing right now. Most of all I never question Manu's heart or his will to win games. It will always be apparent in his style of play.

Tony Parker is looking more and more like Allen Iverson. A great lone scorer but when he has weapons he seems to get confused when to score and when to be a teammate. I hope to God that this isnt the Spurs fate. To end with bad team chemistry. It doesnt seem like poetic justice for a Tim Duncan team to fall apart like this.

That loss against the Blazers should make a lot of fans want to vomit. Spurs fans who want to just brush it off and act like its nothing are in total denial. This is a serious problem the Spurs are facing. They better have plans on going on a 10-15 game winning streak right now or a trade better be in discussions, because the time for waiting for the game to just "come to you" is over. Go out there and win some games damnit...

What is the most alarming to me is that this is the most easiest part of their schedule this season, and that only means it's going to be Hell towards the end. God, I hope our guys can find a way to get it together.

All I want for Christmas....

[SenorSpur]

I would say 80-90% of the teams struggle has to be put on Jefferson and Parker. Neither of them have shown signs of being allstars this year. I dont put too much blame on Manu because my expectations were just what I am seeing right now. Most of all I never question Manu's heart or his will to win games. It will always be apparent in his style of play.

Tony Parker is looking more and more like Allen Iverson. A great lone scorer but when he has weapons he seems to get confused when to score and when to be a teammate. I hope to God that this isnt the Spurs fate. To end with bad team chemistry. It doesnt seem like poetic justice for a Tim Duncan team to fall apart like this.

A very apt comparison. I can't begin to express my disappointment with Tony and his selfishness. I've never thought of him in those terms before this season. Pop's "laissez faire" attitude toward managing this situation appropriately is even more bizzare. What shape would the Spurs have been if D-Rob would've been so selfish and not sacrificed his game for the benefit of Duncan back in 1997?

That loss against the Blazers should make a lot of fans want to vomit. Spurs fans who want to just brush it off and act like its nothing are in total denial. This is a serious problem the Spurs are facing. They better have plans on going on a 10-15 game winning streak right now or a trade better be in discussions, becuase the time for waiting for the game to just "come to you" is over. Go out there and win some games damnit...

This most recent loss to the Blazers is just sickening. It should be a wake-up call for anyone (player, coach or fan) that believes the team's struggles are merely just an aberration. While it's too early to panic, there will come a point where the reality of this team's shortcomings will set in. For me, this was the game. A hobbled, playoff-contending team, that was down 7 players, including their biggest star, on the second night of a back-to-back. Combine this with the fact that this team has demonstrated an clear inability to beat playoff-worthy teams, and there is much reason for concern.

Personally, I don't know how this gets fixed. Parker isn't going to change. Pop isn't going to change. Manu looks as though he's considerably declined and RJ, so far, looks like a bad fit. Bonner and Finley are not the heores that will rescue these troops. There is a 6'11", 22 year-old, athletic center that is rotting away on the bench and has been deemed a bust by the FO. Meanwhile, Duncan is overloaded in having to assume most of the heavy lifting, including facilitating the offense, on both ends. I feel bad for him because he deserves better.

[Mal]

As I read it somewhere here it`s all about basketball IQ. Expierenced Bowen, Thomas, Barry, Horry even Vaughn were repleced by Jefferson(guy never played schematic basketball), rookie Blair, almost rookie Hil and Dice who seems a little bit lost.

With those old guys Parker wasn`t so irresponsible. Maybe they had a big influence on him, even bigger then coach. Now Parker should be a mentor for other guys and he is not.

I write this watching Boston @ Orlando, where they play really big defense and nice passing game on offense. It remainds me old , good Spurs with those guys , who I meant at the beggining

Boston is lead by young , little crazy PG, but they had expierenced and wise guys all over the floor. Lack of Pierce isn`t noticed. Last year Spurs played good basket, but roster wasn`t deep enough to cover Gino absent. I start to think that this offseason Spurs went wrong way.

[sonic21]

With these players, the spurs D will never be good.

For years, Duncan and Bowen were hiding other players' weakness on D. Tony and Manu have always been good help defenders but their 1on1 defense has been overrated.

Duncan lost a step (only on D) and bowen is gone. Now they're exposed.

[SenorSpur]

As I read it somewhere here it`s all about basketball IQ. Expierenced Bowen, Thomas, Barry, Horry even Vaughn were repleced by Jefferson(guy never played schematic basketball), rookie Blair, almost rookie Hil and Dice who seems a little bit lost.

With those old guys Parker wasn`t so irresponsible. Maybe they had a big influence on him, even bigger then coach. Now Parker should be a mentor for other guys and he is not.
I don't know about that one. I've heard G-Hill state on more than one occasion that Tony has taken him under his wing on several occasions and explained things to him. I disagree with Tony's selfish play on the court, but unless Hill is exaggerating, I can't go that far to say he hasn't been a mentor.


Boston is lead by young , little crazy PG, but they had expierenced and wise guys all over the floor. Lack of Pierce isn`t noticed. Last year Spurs played good basket, but roster wasn`t deep enough to cover Gino absent. I start to think that this offseason Spurs went wrong way.
You're right. Boston plays championship-level defense ALL THE TIME! I love Rondo too - mainly because he's a flat-out disruptive pest on the defensive end. Plays passing lanes, gets up into his opponent and is an all-world theft artist. He gets his points - many in transition. Tony is a more accomplished scoring guard and is one of the best at getting to the rim. However, he negates most of his production because he's devolved into an absolute horrific defender. As much as he scores, he now gives up as much on the other end.

[SenorSpur]

With these players, the spurs D will never be good.

For years, Duncan and Bowen were hiding other players' weakness on D. Tony and Manu have always been good help defenders but their 1on1 defense has been overrated.

Duncan lost a step (only on D) and bowen is gone. Now they're exposed.

Great points. It's always been amazing to me how much Pop preaches defense, but he'd rather invest roster spots in some players, who are notoriously poor defenders. Too much love for the old one-trick, veteran, pony.

[Silver&Black Warrior]

I would say 80-90% of the teams struggle has to be put on Jefferson and Parker. Neither of them have shown signs of being allstars this year. I dont put too much blame on Manu because my expectations were just what I am seeing right now. Most of all I never question Manu's heart or his will to win games. It will always be apparent in his style of play.

Tony Parker is looking more and more like Allen Iverson. A great lone scorer but when he has weapons he seems to get confused when to score and when to be a teammate. I hope to God that this isnt the Spurs fate. To end with bad team chemistry. It doesnt seem like poetic justice for a Tim Duncan team to fall apart like this.

That loss against the Blazers should make a lot of fans want to vomit. Spurs fans who want to just brush it off and act like its nothing are in total denial. This is a serious problem the Spurs are facing. They better have plans on going on a 10-15 game winning streak right now or a trade better be in discussions, becuase the time for waiting for the game to just "come to you" is over. Go out there and win some games damnit...

Post of the year. :worthy:

[mogrovejo]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

True. But why should he?


Jefferson is too soft

True.


and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...


Meh... what's "his game"? Jefferson needs to get someone to create shots for him, the Spurs can do that.


Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

They also have Duncan and Ginobili. Enough playmaking.


Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

True. Very concerning. The Spurs could use a top perimeter defender that doesn't suck offensively + an athletic big that can defend the pick'n'roll and perimeter bigs and rebound.


Manu is no longer an all-star...

Maybe not, but the Spurs don't need him to be one. I think he can become the quasi-All Star/ 3rd best player the Spurs need him to be.

[LOL@MavsFan]

yeah spurs never won a title with tp


Or Manu....fuck u u fucking fuck
:lol

[pauls931]

You guys need to pull off an atomic trade. I'm talking packaging Duncan and Ginobilli to get an elite piece like a Dwight howard. You need youth because the 2 of the big 3 are getting old. At least pull off a trade unloading ginobilli and maybe some other parts. You no longer need a team designed to beat the suns. You have to worry about LA, Portland, and Denver now, maybe OKC soon.

Either way Ginobilli has to go. His game depends on athleticism. Duncan can be kept unless you can work a deal to get a young awesome piece, a Howard, Durant, whatever...

Parker is young and keeper unless you can swing a trade that nets an elite PG, or at least a decent one with young ginobili replacement or an elite big.

[Solid D]

[Text about Parker removed]

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson, [Text about Parker removed] and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...and shouldn't have played in the Olympics.


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed

[rogcl1]

Parker cant play the role of "Pass-first" PG...

Jefferson is too soft and his game doesnt seem to gel well with the Spurs style of play...

Spurs need more playmakers. Bogans,Jefferson,Parker and Hill are not natural playmakers...

Spurs dont have the defensive weapons they once had...

Manu is no longer an all-star...


It hurts to come to these conclusions but Its painfully obvious these are the problems with this current team. I hope that I can be proven wrong but unless these problems are addressed quickly, this Spurs team is going nowhere...:depressed

I don't think Parker needs to be a "pass first point" guard. He does need to do what he does best, being consistently aggressive , getting his points and at times finding others as in the past.
The main thing he could do to help the team beyond playing to his strengths on offense is to play any form of suitable derfense. I think his defense is awful.

[Budkin]

Wow there's some really good analysis going on in this thread. Gave me a much better grasp on what's going on with this team at the moment because I've been at a total loss as to why we've been so poor. Hope we can work this out soon. :tu

[Agloco]

Playmaking ability is a needed talent to thrive in the Spurs system. Players like Manu,Jackson,Horry,Barry could thrive in the Spurs system for so many years because they had that natural playmaking ability to make the extra pass or know how to shake a defensive scheme.

Bogan,RJ and Parker dont have that mentality. Parker and Jefferson have the same mindset and that is to score most of the time. They have not shown the ability to improvise team offensive schemes on the fly. Spurs need more playmakers to keep the ball moving. They all look lost and unsure right now.

Parker doesnt know how to run a fast break. He can have 3 guys running with him and still find a way to turnover the ball. Unacceptable. Especially for a former NBA Finals MVP....

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

I can't remember the last time Parker made a wise decision on a fast break. It seems that he's always making things harder, not only for his teammates, but for himself as well.

Instead of dishing off, he plows into the middle of 3 defenders and goes sprawling into press row half the time. He's gotta start making better decisions on the break. It's essential to getting guys like Hill and RJ involved.

[GrandeDavid]

TD and Manu shouldve been traded 5 years ago

the spurs are an embarrassment

And discard two championships? They aren't that easy to come by! I think that we should appreciate the four we have, and three we got with Tim and Manu. Five years ago the Spurs probably didn't envision Manu playing so much internationally and his body starting to break down so rapidly.

[HarlemHeat37]

The problem in this thread is that a lot of people have focused on offensive problems from a stylistic standpoint..sure it might help a little if Parker passed a little more, but it wouldn't make a significant difference..

The D should be the main focus here..particularly getting some athletic wing defenders, and more importantly, getting a functional defensive big man next to Duncan..these have been needs since the last title..

Pop's style has clearly changed though..he talks about defense, but he doesn't follow through..defensive players no longer play on this team for the most part..

IMO, the main Spurs problems..

1- Parker and Ginobili's poor play, especially Manu..obviously this team won't go anywhere without them..

2- Defense..particularly P&R defense, defending switches, and Tony Parker's atrocious defense..those 3 are all huge issues..the last one isn't fixable..the other 2 might not be fixable with our current personnel..Duncan can be exploited on the p&r nowadays, we really need a mobile big..

I've noticed this for a while now..teams are running multiple screens to free up one of their big men to have a matchup advantage against one of our wing players, and this team doesn't know how to respond to this..it has been killing us for a while now..it's either lack of understanding how to rotate, and it's the lack of size..other teams are pounding the Spurs with this..

3- Energy players..Manu used to be the main guy, but he doesn't have it right now..Hill isn't an energy player on a consistent basis, he thinks too much, which is understandable considering his position..

Blair is our only energy player..I love him, but sometimes you need more athletic guys to spark a team with some blocks and dunks..some athletic plays..I'd love to see Ratliff and Hairston get in for 5 minutes in a game to spark the team, or at least let those guys play when guys ahead of them in the rotation are playing poorly..if not for production reasons, then at least to light a fire under some asses..what happened to Pop's doghouse?..

I'm tired of seeing every single team come out with some athletic players that kill the Spurs with their hustle, energy and athleticism..

4- Pop..I love the guy, but he's gone soft..Finley had him neutered, he doesn't have his balls anymore..he doesn't put players in the doghouse, he's too stubborn and abuses concepts like small ball(sometimes it works, but at least do something else when the team is struggling with it)..he's no longer a hard ass that focuses on D..we need the old Pop back..



This team is tough to read in general though..I find it interesting that we're ranked 6th in overall efficiency(O+D), only behind Boston, Cleveland, LA, Atlanta and Dallas..just ahead of Portland, Denver and Orlando..

[SenorSpur]

The problem in this thread is that a lot of people have focused on offensive problems from a stylistic standpoint..sure it might help a little if Parker passed a little more, but it wouldn't make a significant difference..

The D should be the main focus here..particularly getting some athletic wing defenders, and more importantly, getting a functional defensive big man next to Duncan..these have been needs since the last title..

Pop's style has clearly changed though..he talks about defense, but he doesn't follow through..defensive players no longer play on this team for the most part..

IMO, the main Spurs problems..

1- Parker and Ginobili's poor play, especially Manu..obviously this team won't go anywhere without them..

2- Defense..particularly P&R defense, defending switches, and Tony Parker's atrocious defense..those 3 are all huge issues..the last one isn't fixable..the other 2 might not be fixable with our current personnel..Duncan can be exploited on the p&r nowadays, we really need a mobile big..

I've noticed this for a while now..teams are running multiple screens to free up one of their big men to have a matchup advantage against one of our wing players, and this team doesn't know how to respond to this..it has been killing us for a while now..it's either lack of understanding how to rotate, and it's the lack of size..other teams are pounding the Spurs with this..

3- Energy players..Manu used to be the main guy, but he doesn't have it right now..Hill isn't an energy player on a consistent basis, he thinks too much, which is understandable considering his position..

Bogans and Blair are our only energy players..I love them both, but sometimes you need more athletic guys to spark a team with some blocks and dunks..some athletic plays..I'd love to see Ratliff and Hairston get in for 5 minutes in a game to spark the team, or at least let those guys play when guys ahead of them in the rotation are playing poorly..if not for production reasons, then at least to light a fire under some asses..what happened to Pop's doghouse?..

I'm tired of seeing every single team come out with some athletic players that kill the Spurs with their hustle, energy and athleticism..

4- Pop..I love the guy, but he's gone soft..Finley had him neutered, he doesn't have his balls anymore..he doesn't put players in the doghouse, he's too stubborn and abuses concepts like small ball(sometimes it works, but at least do something else when the team is struggling with it)..he's no longer a hard ass that focuses on D..we need the old Pop back..


This team is tough to read in general though..I find it interesting that we're ranked 6th in overall efficiency(O+D), only behind Boston, Cleveland, LA, Atlanta and Dallas..just ahead of Portland, Denver and Orlando..

Good stuff and excellent points.

Regarding Pop, as much as they talked about transforming the team over the offseason, the moves were made. However, it's become clear to me that he simply doesn't value youth and athleticism. I don't think he feels as though those commodities equal winning. Despite how watching teams like the Fakers, Blazers, Thunder and Nuggets dominate his team game in and game out.

[xtremesteven33]

BUMP


It looks like our problems really are unfixable :depressed

[8FOR!3]

Are problems are fixable, do you work for BSPN?

[SouthTexasRancher]

TD and Manu shouldve been traded 5 years ago

the spurs are an embarrassment


You really shouldn't be hittin' the ol' moonshine till after 8 am.

[all_heart]

Everybody is turning the Spurs problems into rocket science. No team is perfect. There is no defensive knight that can stop everyone. Spurs just need to play with energy and hustle and take care of the dam ball. Sure there are other things, but I bet playing with energy and some killer instinct will go a looooong way!

[spurs_philippines]

C'mon its too early... keep the faith