I dont care what anyone says... Richard Jefferson as a spur is a failure

[gospursgojas]

He just doesn't fit. His game, his will to win, his mentality.

I know a lot of Spurs aren't playing well, but he was brought here to put us over the top. So I'm gonna pick on him. Rj has yet to produce. A few highlight dunks a game isn't what the spurs need. The spurs needed another 16 - 18 ppg player. And he's down around 13. And most of his avgs are inflated by the big games he puts up against poor teams. With dallas early on in the season being perhaps the only exception to that.

Here's some perspective for you:

2008-09 Fin: 3.3 rebounds per game, 9.7 ppg

2009-10 Jeff: 4.2 rebounds per game, 13.2 ppg

The amount of Finley hate last year on this board was astounding. As were the amount of trade fin threads. Yet, jefferson is only producing 1 more rebound and 3 more points a game than fin.

And if you want to get into the business side of this failure... Holt is paying 14 mil a year for that extra rebound and 3 pts.

There are just no more excuses for how he does not fit on this team.

[Höfner]

Deeming players a failure in December?

[dastrey]

Tell us something we don't know. The thing that really upsets me is how he doesn't even look to attack when the ball is passed to him. As soon as he receives a pass he is looking to get rid of the ball.

[blkroadrunners]

So instead of RJ, whom would u have traded Kurt, Oberto, and Bowen for instead?

[murpjf88]

This is old news, I said this when he was signed that he didn't belong here.

[gospursgojas]

Deeming players a failure in December?

Yes.

[xtremesteven33]

I thought the Jefferson trade would work out in the beginning but now I shouldve known Jefferson was too soft of a player to play in Pops system.

[crc21209]

It's not Jefferson's fault that this team has TP, TD, and Manu to share the ball with also. Think about it...in Milwaukee Jefferson was dominating the ball thus being able to score more. Here, he isnt going to touch the ball as much with the Big 3...

[gospursgojas]

So instead of RJ, whom would u have traded Kurt, Oberto, and Bowen for instead?

Hell if I knew rj would not fit this badly I woulda just kept the same team and hoped health would stay on my side this season and bought a 14 mil jet with 4 trophies painted on it instead. Each with tim, tony, manu, and daves faces as the ball

[dastrey]

So instead of RJ, whom would u have traded Kurt, Oberto, and Bowen for instead?

No one. Let their contracts expire and sign a free agent to a 1 year deal.

[SequSpur]

Tim Duncan can't take a shooting guard to the hole and it's RJ's fault...

You guys don't know shit about basketball..do you?

[murpjf88]

It's not Jefferson's fault that this team has TP, TD, and Manu to share the ball with also. Think about it...in Milwaukee Jefferson was dominating the ball thus being able to score more. Here, he isnt going to touch the ball as much with the Big 3...

RJ was not brought in to outshine TP, TD or Manu, he was brought in here to be a complimentary player. Anybody who thought he was going to average 19 ppg is kidding themselves.

On many nights, when he does touch the ball, he lays an egg.

[blkroadrunners]

No one. Let their contracts expire and sign a free agent to a 1 year deal.

Maybe 2-3 solid contibutors for 2 yrs or so for $15M per yr total, but I don't see an all-star/superstar calibur player signing for just 1 yr.

[crc21209]

RJ was not brought to outshine TP, TD or Manu, he was brought in here to be a complimentary player. Anybody who thought he was going to average 19 ppg is kidding themselves.

Personally, on many nights, when he does touch the ball, he lays an egg.

Exactly, in this system with these players RJ isnt going to be a 20ppg scorer...

[Spursfan 87]

They should had traded for JAx. He was the kind of player that we needed

[Parker2112]

Not Even Close, Brother.


he was brought here to put us over the top. So I'm gonna pick on him.
He was brought here to help out the big three. Right now that big three is down to 1 1/2. I'd say we'll never even get a glimpse of the top until the big three become the big three again.

How can a guy be held responsible for wins/losses when your still relying on TP and TD to be the offense? When did RJ ever become a focus on this offense? When we start running plays for him, giving him the rock consistently, then he'll start to shoulder more blame...even Sean was saying tonight how they were forcing the ball to TD too much.

This team needs to diversify the attack.


The spurs needed another 16 - 18 ppg player. And he's down around 13. And most of his avgs are inflated by the big games he puts up against poor teams.

So your saying if RJ averages three more points we are "over the top?"

The flaw with this thinking stems from your belief that we can keep adding points by adding more scorers. It just doesn't work like that. Only so many shots to go around, and percentages rule...


The amount of Finley hate last year on this board was astounding. As were the amount of trade fin threads. Yet, jefferson is only producing 1 more rebound and 3 more points a game than fin.
Finley hate stemmed from lack of D...you missed the point of alot of threads here.


And if you want to get into the business side of this failure... Holt is paying 14 mil a year for that extra rebound and 3 pts. Actually, RJ is 3 pts. and an extra rebound, plus MANU INSURANCE. That part is pretty major.


There are just no more excuses for how he does not fit on this team. Actually, you're a cliffjumper.:lol

[NZ Spurs]

Ummmm RJ just played a pretty good game?

[ffadicted]

I like how this thread comes after a game in which RJ was aggressive, scored 18 points, and played decent D.

[gospursgojas]

Not Even Close, Brother.


He was brought here to help out the big three. Right now that big three is down to 1 1/2. I'd say we'll never even get a glimpse of the top until the big three become the big three again.

How can a guy be held responsible for wins/losses when your still relying on TP and TD to be the offense? When did RJ ever become a focus on this offense? When we start running plays for him, giving him the rock consistently, then he'll start to shoulder more blame...even Sean was saying tonight how they were forcing the ball to TD too much.

This team needs to diversify the attack.



So your saying if RJ averages three more points we are "over the top?"

The flaw with this thinking stems from your belief that we can keep adding points by adding more scorers. It just doesn't work like that. Only so many shots to go around, and percentages rule...


Finley hate stemmed from lack of D...you missed the point of alot of threads here.

Actually, RJ is 3 pts. and an extra rebound, plus MANU INSURANCE. That part is pretty major.

Actually, you're a cliffjumper.:lol

All valid points except for the last part. Unless you are refering to the cliffjumping off mt jefferson then yes.

I don't care if I'm wrong. In fact I PRAY I am. For my team's sake. Please rj prove me wrong and start winning my team some ball games

[gospursgojas]

I like how this thread comes after a game in which RJ was aggressive, scored 18 points, and played decent D.

I purposely started the thread after a good game. Bc it was against a poor team with 7 players and we lost.

[Sean Cagney]

RJ is not the problem right now, it is the turnovers and the damn fact Manu and TP are not Manu and TP we know and love! They are the key, they are not there yet and I hope they get there eventually.

[murpjf88]

Ummmm RJ just played a pretty good game?

Is this a question or a statement?

[Parker2112]

Man check the stats tonight. RJ had a good game. 7-10, 18 points. I think the major problem is that the team never gets it together at the same time. Tonight Dejuan had six points, 2 rebs. Parker: 4 ast, 3 TOs, and those dont count the stupid offensive fouls in the lane. Ginobili had 7 pts on 9 shots. Hill: 3 pts on 8 shots.

Our problem is that when these guys show up, RJ will disappear again.

Or maybe not.

[anonoftheinternets]

terrible thread. SO many things to complain about and you picked the wrong thing.

[MavDynasty]

Hypothetically,would Marion fit in the Spurs system?Would RJ fit in the Mavs system?

[draft87]

He just doesn't fit. His game, his will to win, his mentality.

I know a lot of Spurs aren't playing well, but he was brought here to put us over the top. So I'm gonna pick on him. Rj has yet to produce. A few highlight dunks a game isn't what the spurs need. The spurs needed another 16 - 18 ppg player. And he's down around 13. And most of his avgs are inflated by the big games he puts up against poor teams. With dallas early on in the season being perhaps the only exception to that.

Here's some perspective for you:

2008-09 Fin: 3.3 rebounds per game, 9.7 ppg

2009-10 Jeff: 4.2 rebounds per game, 13.2 ppg

The amount of Finley hate last year on this board was astounding. As were the amount of trade fin threads. Yet, jefferson is only producing 1 more rebound and 3 more points a game than fin.

And if you want to get into the business side of this failure... Holt is paying 14 mil a year for that extra rebound and 3 pts.

There are just no more excuses for how he does not fit on this team.


Here's some perspective for you:

You have a bucket of beans that you take to the State Bean Picker's Contest. You are confident that your beans are the best and you will win a ribbon. The judges will be impressed with your budget and plot of land from which you harvest the beans. With a moderate investment you are able to harvest fine tasting beans that grow plentiful. Sometimes the beans grow too quickly and overripe and unfortunately as the contest unfolds there is another contestant that has equally tasty beans but his are much cleaner and more plentiful. He spent twice as much money on his bean planting and has a much more glamorous farm. The judges are wow'd by his clean, tasty beans and love looking at the pictures of his farm. They don't care that you were thrifty with your bean planting.

You lose the contest and go home crying.
-----------------------------------------------

Before the next bean picking season begins another bean picker contacts you with a proposition. He shows you that he has fine quality beans but no chance of winning the ribbon because he doesn't harvest enough to fill the bucket. He will sell you his tasty, clean beans for $14 so you can combine them with your already impressive, somewhat large bean harvest.

You think this is a great idea and immediately celebrate the idea of winning the State Bean Picking Contest. You are so confident that you take it easy growing your beans and during the harvest fill the bucket a little lighter than you did last year.
-------------------------------------

After the Bean-picking time both of you head to the State Bean Picking Contest only to find that your combined bean bucket isn't as impressive as you hoped. The judges don't think there are enough beans and some are still overripe.

The reigning State Bean Picking Champion reclaims his trophy and you are pissed. You are so pissed because you were supposed to have the best bucket of beans. You already had great bean picking skills. You mastered the art of getting many beans to grow without spending thousands of dollars on your bean farm and you even spent $14 more this year hiring the other bean picker to help your cause. It wasn't enough but you don't understand why.

You call your partner a bastard from screwing you out of the State Bean Picking Trophy. He was supposed to fill your bean bucket to the top. You are so mad that you don't realize you are publicly cursing your bean partner and accusing him of cheating by not bringing the amount of beans you paid him to bring. Fortunately, your mother gets your attention and points out to you that you took it too easy during the planting and harvesting of your own beans. Your beans went bad and you even put less of your own beans in the bucket than last year. It didn't matter if your partner brought more or less beans than you paid him to bring, there weren't enough beans in the main supply to make a successful, overflowing bucket of beans. Your mother tells you to stop complaining about the $14 because it wasn't even your money. It was her money and she can spend it any way she likes.

Your mother tells you that you've been a bad bean picker and you are to go home and go straight to your room until supper. And to wash your mouth with soap so you don't go accusing someone without knowing what you are talking about.
------------------------------------


Hope this story was fun and filled with perspective. Now there are no more reasons for these threads. ...."just saying"

[HarlemHeat37]

A few people in this thread have criticized him in every way..particularly RJ's ex-fiancee murpjf88 and her cousin the OP..what a strange time to make this thread, after Jefferson has a good game AND we lost to a horrible team..so clearly there are more serious problems than Jefferson..

I understand criticizing Jefferson for not being consistent against the top teams, and I understand that he hasn't fit some unrealistic expectations..he deserves criticism, just like everybody else..but to think he's even one of the top reasons this team is struggling is just stupid, and the facts don't back it up..

The fact that his stats are somewhat similar to Finley's prove how horribly he's been utilized this season..the sad part is what when you exclude the games that RJ played without Tony and Tim, then last year's version of Finley actually averaged more shots per game than RJ does this season, which is fucking pathetic..the fact that RJ is putting up the same efficiency, averages 5 times the amount of FTAs, plays better D, actually slashes to the rim, but still can't get more shots per game than last year's Finley shows how poorly he's being utilized..

As for his "killer instinct", it's possible that he doesn't have it..but the guy is a 4th option..that's why he was brought it..there are 3 guys ahead of him that are supposed to take the pressure off and carry the team..unfortunately, 2 of them have been playing poor basketball this season..

Parker's averaging a career-high in TOPG, while Manu is shooting a ridiculous 38% from the field this year..those are supposed to be our #2 and #3 options, but people are blaming RJ?..unless you're bringing in a Lebron or Kobe type, then we need Manu and Parker to play at their usual levels..unfortunately, we haven't been getting that..

Furthermore, our offense is ranked 5th in the NBA..people seem to not understand this..the defense has been a much, much bigger problem than the offense..since our offense has it's fair share of troubles, that speaks volumes on how poor the D is..Jefferson isn't a great defender, but he's been improving for a while now..he doesn't control Parker's D, the interior D or the p&r D, which have been our main defensive problems..

We've played 10 games vs. good/great teams(Utahx3, @ Portland, @ Phoenix, Dallasx2, @ Houston, Boston, Denver)..looking at the numbers, RJ isn't the only one struggling against those teams, the others are too..

Tony Parker: 29.6MPG 48.3FG% 17.9pts 4.4asts 3.4tos..
RJ: 35.1MPG 43.5FG% 12.7pts 2.1asts 4.9rbs 1.9to..
Manu: 23.5MPG 32.4FG% 10pts 3.3asts 2.4rbs 2.1tos..

RJ is struggling with his shot, Manu is HEAVILY struggling with his shot..Tony's scoring has been nice in those games, but 4.4 APG with 3.4 TOPG is horrible..

[HarlemHeat37]

Also LOL @ the alternatives..

-keeping the same team would have been even worse, considering how poorly Tony and Manu have played so far, especially compared to last year..

-waiting to sign a FA is a huge risk and it would have completely wasted another year..

-the $ is irrelevant..for the millionth time, if he was actually worth the amount of $ he makes, he wouldn't have been salary dumped by 2 different teams..

[draft87]

A few people in this thread have criticized him in every way..particularly RJ's ex-fiancee murpjf88 and her cousin the OP..




????

[HarlemHeat37]

murpjf88 is Richard Jefferson's ex-fiancee that he left during the Summer..

[draft87]

murpjf88 is Richard Jefferson's ex-fiancee that he left during the Summer..


no shit. I think that puts some of her posts into perspective. and gospursgojas is her cousin?

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not 100% sure about gospursgojas, but I know that murpj is legit..

[Chieflion]

Jefferson had a good game with a few authorative slams at the basket, the only guy who successfully took it at the basket with ease and you blame him for Ginobili and Parker's disappearance. Ridiculous....

[murpjf88]

murpjf88 is Richard Jefferson's ex-fiancee that he left during the Summer..

:married: Wasn't meant to be.

One of these days, your going to join the other side. Until then...


no shit. I think that puts some of her posts into perspective. and gospursgojas is her cousin?

Should I be offended by a sanctimonious colossal moron in Draft87? aaah, I think not.

[TJastal]

murpjf88 is Richard Jefferson's ex-fiancee that he left during the Summer..

:lol

[TJastal]

Jefferson is putting up basically the same #'s he has his whole career. If he was getting close to 40 minutes a game like in past seasons, instead of 31 he'd be getting that magical 19 points a game that the OP keeps harping on over and over.

[TJastal]

And this new look trailblazer team is not to be taken lightly. They're going to topple quite a few more teams before they're done.

[jag]

Here's some perspective for you:

You have a bucket of beans that you take to the State Bean Picker's Contest. You are confident that your beans are the best and you will win a ribbon. The judges will be impressed with your budget and plot of land from which you harvest the beans. With a moderate investment you are able to harvest fine tasting beans that grow plentiful. Sometimes the beans grow too quickly and overripe and unfortunately as the contest unfolds there is another contestant that has equally tasty beans but his are much cleaner and more plentiful. He spent twice as much money on his bean planting and has a much more glamorous farm. The judges are wow'd by his clean, tasty beans and love looking at the pictures of his farm. They don't care that you were thrifty with your bean planting.

You lose the contest and go home crying.
-----------------------------------------------

Before the next bean picking season begins another bean picker contacts you with a proposition. He shows you that he has fine quality beans but no chance of winning the ribbon because he doesn't harvest enough to fill the bucket. He will sell you his tasty, clean beans for $14 so you can combine them with your already impressive, somewhat large bean harvest.

You think this is a great idea and immediately celebrate the idea of winning the State Bean Picking Contest. You are so confident that you take it easy growing your beans and during the harvest fill the bucket a little lighter than you did last year.
-------------------------------------

After the Bean-picking time both of you head to the State Bean Picking Contest only to find that your combined bean bucket isn't as impressive as you hoped. The judges don't think there are enough beans and some are still overripe.

The reigning State Bean Picking Champion reclaims his trophy and you are pissed. You are so pissed because you were supposed to have the best bucket of beans. You already had great bean picking skills. You mastered the art of getting many beans to grow without spending thousands of dollars on your bean farm and you even spent $14 more this year hiring the other bean picker to help your cause. It wasn't enough but you don't understand why.

You call your partner a bastard from screwing you out of the State Bean Picking Trophy. He was supposed to fill your bean bucket to the top. You are so mad that you don't realize you are publicly cursing your bean partner and accusing him of cheating by not bringing the amount of beans you paid him to bring. Fortunately, your mother gets your attention and points out to you that you took it too easy during the planting and harvesting of your own beans. Your beans went bad and you even put less of your own beans in the bucket than last year. It didn't matter if your partner brought more or less beans than you paid him to bring, there weren't enough beans in the main supply to make a successful, overflowing bucket of beans. Your mother tells you to stop complaining about the $14 because it wasn't even your money. It was her money and she can spend it any way she likes.

Your mother tells you that you've been a bad bean picker and you are to go home and go straight to your room until supper. And to wash your mouth with soap so you don't go accusing someone without knowing what you are talking about.
------------------------------------


Hope this story was fun and filled with perspective. Now there are no more reasons for these threads. ...."just saying"

I read this entire thing.

It's 445 AM...and i have no idea why i read it.

That being said, it was fairly captivating. I wanted to know how the story ended.

[TJastal]

I read this entire thing.

It's 445 AM...and i have no idea why i read it.

That being said, it was fairly captivating. I wanted to know how the story ended.

:rollin :lmao

[alamo50]

Just STFU when he fits in next season when we win it all.

[Zero_Twilight]

To the OP: RJ was pretty good this game. He was on his assignments and he hustled. What more could you ask?

I blame the coaching and the lineups:

-Why is Blair starting? It might do wonders for his confidence but he's an X-Factor off the bench. It's what this team needs to further the lead

-RJ on Aldridge was STUPID!! Blair did a better job by altering his shots. I don't know if Ratliff was suited but he should of had a chance to guard Aldridge

-Manu isn't his self lately. Maybe those rabies shots fucked with his court vision...he used to be such a ball hawk.

I saw a game the other day;...New Jersey vs Cleveland in 05. I actually saw Jaque Vaughn and RJ playing together, that was so weird. Anyway, RJ had a slow start but that's what he does. He paces himself and turns the heat up as the game goes along. He made mistakes but the coach left him in there and he made up for those mistakes and became more aggressive and got to the line. He was strong enough to alter Lebron's shots and even threw it down with some Thunder and lightning. He scored 41. Hope he finds his groove here in SA.

[TheChillFactor]

Here's some perspective for you:

You have a bucket of beans that you take to the State Bean Picker's Contest. You are confident that your beans are the best and you will win a ribbon. The judges will be impressed with your budget and plot of land from which you harvest the beans. With a moderate investment you are able to harvest fine tasting beans that grow plentiful. Sometimes the beans grow too quickly and overripe and unfortunately as the contest unfolds there is another contestant that has equally tasty beans but his are much cleaner and more plentiful. He spent twice as much money on his bean planting and has a much more glamorous farm. The judges are wow'd by his clean, tasty beans and love looking at the pictures of his farm. They don't care that you were thrifty with your bean planting.

You lose the contest and go home crying.
-----------------------------------------------

Before the next bean picking season begins another bean picker contacts you with a proposition. He shows you that he has fine quality beans but no chance of winning the ribbon because he doesn't harvest enough to fill the bucket. He will sell you his tasty, clean beans for $14 so you can combine them with your already impressive, somewhat large bean harvest.

You think this is a great idea and immediately celebrate the idea of winning the State Bean Picking Contest. You are so confident that you take it easy growing your beans and during the harvest fill the bucket a little lighter than you did last year.
-------------------------------------

After the Bean-picking time both of you head to the State Bean Picking Contest only to find that your combined bean bucket isn't as impressive as you hoped. The judges don't think there are enough beans and some are still overripe.

The reigning State Bean Picking Champion reclaims his trophy and you are pissed. You are so pissed because you were supposed to have the best bucket of beans. You already had great bean picking skills. You mastered the art of getting many beans to grow without spending thousands of dollars on your bean farm and you even spent $14 more this year hiring the other bean picker to help your cause. It wasn't enough but you don't understand why.

You call your partner a bastard from screwing you out of the State Bean Picking Trophy. He was supposed to fill your bean bucket to the top. You are so mad that you don't realize you are publicly cursing your bean partner and accusing him of cheating by not bringing the amount of beans you paid him to bring. Fortunately, your mother gets your attention and points out to you that you took it too easy during the planting and harvesting of your own beans. Your beans went bad and you even put less of your own beans in the bucket than last year. It didn't matter if your partner brought more or less beans than you paid him to bring, there weren't enough beans in the main supply to make a successful, overflowing bucket of beans. Your mother tells you to stop complaining about the $14 because it wasn't even your money. It was her money and she can spend it any way she likes.

Your mother tells you that you've been a bad bean picker and you are to go home and go straight to your room until supper. And to wash your mouth with soap so you don't go accusing someone without knowing what you are talking about.
------------------------------------


Hope this story was fun and filled with perspective. Now there are no more reasons for these threads. ...."just saying"

internet fail. wtf is this long ass story? what are you someone's grandpa? dude you have 4 sentences to keep my attention, make 'em count.

[easy7]

The bad bean picker story takes the cake. I do guess that some minorities can identify with it but if it was me, it would had been about a guitar picker instead of a bean picker. :hat

[xmas1997]

It's still way to early to make these predictions IMHO.
The team hasn't even gelled yet as a team.
And that might not happen until late in the year this year, if even this year.
The desire and talent is there so it will happen. The big question is "when"?

[Dex]

Jaren Jackson.
Stephen Jackson.
Hedo Turkoglu.
Brent Barry.
Michael Finley.
Ime Udoka.

These are all guys who didn't quite "get it" when they first came to San Antonio and into Pop's system. Most of them took about half a season, if not more, to get comfortable and start producing the numbers that were expected from them. And these are also veteran players we are talking about here.

I know the Spurs don't have a lot of time to waste. I know the ideal situation is that Richard Jefferson would be able to come in and outright fit, but I don't think we can magically expect to plug and play this player in the Spurs system and expect immediate results. It's something that hasn't happened very often in the past.

Fortunately, with the exception of Hedo and OkeyDokey, most of those players eventually came around. I still think Richard Jefferson has a chance to, as well.

I'm not saying that to this point, he hasn't been a bit of a disappointment...because he has. I'm just saying that we all should've expected some growing pains...and this appears to be it.

[rascal]

Just STFU when he fits in next season when we win it all.

I agree with alamo50 the spurs will have a better chance to win it next year. Develope Hill, Blair and get Jefferson more acclimated to the team.

[Dice]

Jefferson played great.

Manu, Bogans, and Hill were a combined 4 of 19 from the field. when we needed a big bucket, we couldn't get it.

Mason gets hot. They go away from him. Great.

No F/C in the game the last 5 of the halves. We got killed on the inside and small ball didn't seem to stop Bayless at all.

[Streakyshooter08]

I don't really get that it seems to be a surprise that the Spurs start slow. They have 4! new roation players in Bogans, Blair, Jefferson and McDyess and that is a lot more than in recent years. Parker looked like he is trying to figure out how to get others involved and became a little hesitant at times. Jefferson also looks insecure sometimes. Dyess has not played like he is able to. Manu has been injured...

My point is: it takes time to get chemisty and to get used to each other. A lot of turnovers came because of misscomunication or sloppy plays. This will get better. It reminds me a little of the 2002/2003 season where the Spurs started slow and lost to medicore teams.

It truly believe that this team will improve and will be a force after the All Star Break.

I guess all we can do is to see and wait.

[murpjf88]

I agree with alamo50 the spurs will have a better chance to win it next year. Develope Hill, Blair and get Jefferson more acclimated to the team.

Please, lets not go their. Its going to go from "its only december" to "wait til next year"
Duncan's internal clock is ticking. How many more next years do you think their is going to be?

[mexicanjunior]

Please, lets not go their. Its going to go from "its only december" to "wait til next year"
Duncan's internal clock is ticking. How many more next years do you think their is going to be?

I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to retire instead of coming back to another year of this crap...

[spurtech09]

jefferson has been playing better the last couple of games.....you can say what you want to say about rj but parker hasn't been playing the same....manu hasn't been playing the same....are defense isn't the same.....

[galvatron3000]

RJ was just a piece added to help in the department of youth and athleticism so he was never going to make a championship difference ALONE. Failure, no. This team hasn't come together ass expected nor do I think it will if changes aren't made to rotation or a trade for someone who can make a significant impact. RJ may need to be used as a trade asset as he doesn't mesh well with a scoring pg. Manu may not be the same and may now only be a jump shooter, if so he needs to start. We have too many wing players and not enough time or enough who will make an impact every night. The Big are riding the pine despite injuries.

I think making a rotation change is needed. Play Haislip and Ian because of youth and athleticism and see what happens, we losing anyway might as well make a change if for nothing else but to put fire in the core group and get them focused. Hungry players can make a difference in more ways than one if given the chance.

[Xevious]

I'm going to agree with what some others have already said.

Jefferson hasn't played the way we'd all like him to thus far, but he is showing promise. Tony and Manu are far more concerning. If Tony doesn't return to allstar form, the Spurs aren't going anywhere.

[rascal]

Please, lets not go their. Its going to go from "its only december" to "wait til next year"
Duncan's internal clock is ticking. How many more next years do you think their is going to be?

Its not happening this year. How do you expect the Spurs to get past the Lakers when they can't even beat above .500 teams now.

[DPG21920]

OP is one of the worst posters on ST. I don't care what anyone says.

[jag]

OP is one of the worst posters on ST. I don't care what anyone says.

:lol

[gospursgojas]

It's still way to early to make these predictions IMHO.
The team hasn't even gelled yet as a team.
And that might not happen until late in the year this year, if even this year.
The desire and talent is there so it will happen. The big question is "when"?

Team chemestry is to 2010 as
Injuries were to 2009

We waited all year to get healthy last year. And it never happened. Guess ill wait for the team to gell this year as I did for manu to get healthy last year

[thOOdee]

jefferson is still a great piece to have on the team.
the problem isn't jefferson, the problem is getting the pieces to fit in the puzzle.
right now POPOBITCH is forcing a piece saying it fits but can't see the bigger picture.
all in all, STOP PLAYING SMALL BALL!