Player Rankings

[Findog]

Who are your top 10 players based on this season only?

My list is as follows:

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3-6: Dirk, Duncan, Melo, Wade, any order you want
7: Chrissy Paul
8: Dwight Howard
9: Steve Nash
10-13: Durant, Roy, D Will, Gasol, any order you want

[Findog]

My West All-Star Team:

C: Duncan (I don't care what you say Spur fans, I'm starting him at center over Andrew Bynum and Amar''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''e Stoudemire)
PF: Dirk
SF: Melo
SG: Kobe
PG: Paul

Bench: Nash, Roy, Durant, Gasol, D Will, Carl Landry ( gotta have a Rocket), Chris Kaman

[mogrovejo]

You must find Doc an awesome coach.

[Findog]

You must find Doc an awesome coach.

The Celtics have two of the top 15 players in the league, 3 of the top 30, a deep and versatile bench, and a competent coaching staff. They also have the best team in my opinion.

[Xylus]

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Dirk
4. Duncan
5. Melo
6. Nash
7. Wade
8. CP3
9. Kevin Durant
10. Dwight Howard


It's hard to rank 2-6, since they're all performing at an equally high level. Lebron is easily the best player in the NBA in my book.

[Findog]

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Dirk
4. Duncan
5. Melo
6. Nash
7. Wade
8. CP3
9. Kevin Durant
10. Dwight Howard


It's hard to rank 2-6, since they're all performing at an equally high level. Lebron is easily the best player in the NBA in my book.

I think Kobe is better because his shooting range is better, he knows how to work the refs better, and his basketball IQ is slightly higher than Bron's.

[Xylus]

I think Kobe is better because his shooting range is better, he knows how to work the refs better, and his basketball IQ is slightly higher than Bron's.

Kobe has better shooting range, but Lebron shoots at a higher percentage.

2P%
Kobe - 48.6%
Bron - 50.2%

3P%
Kobe - 29.2%
Bron - 36.3%

He's also a better passer, makes his teammates better, and more physically dominant.

[Findog]

My East All-Star Team:

C: Dwight
PF: KG
SF: Bron
SG: Pierce
PG: Wade (Whatever, he can bring the ball up the court at Cowboys Stadium)

Bench: Bosh, Joe Johnson, Mo Williams, Gerald Wallace, David Lee, Antawn Jamison, Al Horford

[Findog]

Kobe has better shooting range, but Lebron shoots at a higher percentage.

2P%
Kobe - 48.6%
Bron - 50.2%

3P%
Kobe - 29.2%
Bron - 36.3%

He's also a better passer, makes his teammates better, and more physically dominant.

Kobe's shot selection is worse than LeBron's because he takes about 4-5 bad shots a game that he thinks he can make. My point is that you have to defend Kobe the entire floor, something you can't say about LeBron. I think Kobe elevates his teammates too, but LeBron can bulldoze to the rim anytime he wants, whereas Kobe has to pick his spots for when to drive. Despite the 4-5 bad shots he takes per contest, Kobe's game is more efficient in my opinion because it has to be. Very little is wasted.

[ulosturedge]

I think Kobe is better because his shooting range is better, he knows how to work the refs better, and his basketball IQ is slightly higher than Bron's.

Sorry I agree with Xylus. Lebron is much better at making his teammates better. If his game isn't on he can still find ways to help his team win. Where as if Kobe has a bad game it seems his team follows suit more times then not.

[MiamiHeat]

1. LeBron

[monosylab1k]

Kobe's shot selection is worse than LeBron's because he takes about 4-5 bad shots a game that he thinks he can make.

Arrogance is still Kobe's biggest weakness. He's a far better shooter, and IMO a much smarter player than LeBron. But he still suffers from the "I'm so much better than you that I can take a shot this freaking ridiculous and still make it look easy" and ends up missing badly a few times every game.

If it's just pure shooting ability, I think Kobe is right up there with Dirk, Nash, Kapono, etc. If the guy sets his feet and shoots properly, there's very few if any guys better than Kobe at shooting the ball. His form is flawless.

[milkshakeballa]

Who are your top 10 players based on this season only?

My list is as follows:

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3-6: Dirk, Duncan, Melo, Wade, any order you want
7: Chrissy Paul
8: Dwight Howard
9: Steve Nash
10-13: Durant, Roy, D Will, Gasol, any order you want


Dirk is CLEAR CUT #3...

Melo has hit a wall....Wade is #4...Duncan?!?!?

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5/6. Durant/Melo
7. Paul
8. Howard
9. Nash
10. Roy

[Findog]

Dirk is CLEAR CUT #3...

Melo has hit a wall....Wade is #4...Duncan?!?!?

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3. Dirk
4. Wade
5/6. Durant/Melo
7. Paul
8. Howard
9. Nash
10. Roy

Duncan has been a monster this year. He's been keeping the Spurs afloat while Jefferson, Parker and Manu have played with themselves.

[milkshakeballa]

Duncan has been a monster this year. He's been keeping the Spurs afloat while Jefferson, Parker and Manu have played with themselves.

TBH I really havent seen enough spurs game...but more of an impact than roy or nash??? spurs r really struggling right now....

[badfish22]

1A. Kobe
1B. Lebron
3. Dirk
4. Melo
5. Duncan
6. Wade
7. CP3
8. Nash
9. Kevin Durant
10. Dwight Howard

[Findog]

TBH I really havent seen enough spurs game...but more of an impact than roy or nash??? spurs r really struggling right now....

I think they're 18-11 now, but it's been a home-heavy sched and they've struggled against good teams. Duncan is in beast mode right now because the rest of the team has been shit.

[23LeBronJames23]

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Wade
4. Dirk
5/6. Durant/Melo
7. Duncan
8. Howard
9. Paul
10. Nash/Roy

[Killakobe81]

1. Kobe
2. Dirk
3. Lebron
4. Melo
5. Nash
6. Duncan

Question was THIS year on performance if it was JUST offense Melo is moved up I factored in performance and clutch shots higher than just stats ...

[Findog]

Arrogance is still Kobe's biggest weakness.

Immaturity combined with an entitlement complex is Bron's. Don't get me wrong, Bron is not the only superstar with a raging ego, but he carries himself like somebody with nothing to prove, when IMO he has plenty to prove. He whines likes a bitch to the refs anytime they refuse to bail him out, whereas Kobe is much better at working them.

[iggypop123]

Kobe has better shooting range, but Lebron shoots at a higher percentage.

2P%
Kobe - 48.6%
Bron - 50.2%

3P%
Kobe - 29.2%
Bron - 36.3%

He's also a better passer, makes his teammates better, and more physically dominant.

is there a way to find the numbers that reflect points in the paint, past 15 feet etc. that would be nice to see lebrons %

[redzero]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Dwight
Dirk
Duncan
Carmelo

[Findog]

LeBron
Kobe
Wade
Paul
Dwight
Dirk
Duncan
Carmelo

:lol

[redzero]

:lol

We already had discussion. I gave you statistical proof showing that Paul has more of an impact on the game than Dirk, and you completely disregarded it.

Whatever.

[KidCongo]

is there a way to find the numbers that reflect points in the paint, past 15 feet etc. that would be nice to see lebrons %

NBA hotspots? I guess you would have to calculate it yourself but.

[badfish22]

I don't blame hornetfan for not thinking Dirk is that great. His two worst games of the year have been against the hornets lol.

[Findog]

We already had discussion. I gave you statistical proof showing that Paul has more of an impact on the game than Dirk, and you completely disregarded it.

You gave statistical proof that Paul has the ball in his hands 40% of the time. Dirk is the guy I'd rather go to war with NOW. Paul is top 10, not top 5.


Whatever

How is Dwight Howard a top 5 player ahead of Duncan, Dirk and Carmelo? Is it his 1/2 a post move that he came into the league with and hasn't expanded upon? Is it his overrated defense? Is it the way you can just foul him and force him to earn his free throws at the line? Is it the way you can stay home on Orlando's shooters and force him to score 35-40 to try and beat you? He's top 10 because his size and athleticism make him a very good and almost great player. If he actually worked on his game, he would probably be the best player in the league.

[JoeTait75]

1.) LeBron James
2.) Kobe Bryant
3.) Dirk Nowitzki
4.) Carmelo Anthony
5.) Dwayne Wade
6.) Tim Duncan
7.) Kevin Durant
8.) Steve Nash
9.) Chris Paul
10.) Dewey Howard

LeBron's defense isn't quite as consistent as last year but he has stepped up with some monster performances at that end against Tyreke Evans and Joe Johnson. He's also shooting better from outside and getting in the post more often. He needs to get the turnovers down. But overall he's the best player in the NBA and has been for the last 3-4 years. YMMV.

[Findog]

1.) LeBron James
2.) Kobe Bryant
3.) Dirk Nowitzki
4.) Carmelo Anthony
5.) Dwayne Wade
6.) Tim Duncan
7.) Kevin Durant
8.) Steve Nash
9.) Chris Paul
10.) Dewey Howard

LeBron's defense isn't quite as consistent as last year but he has stepped up with some monster performances at that end against Tyreke Evans and Joe Johnson. He's also shooting better from outside and getting in the post more often. He needs to get the turnovers down. But overall he's the best player in the NBA and has been for the last 3-4 years. YMMV.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks those guys are a bit overrated.

[Chieflion]

I don't think Dwyane Wade is top 5 calibre at this point. He basically took 2 steps back as a player from last season.

[Findog]

I don't think Dwyane Wade is top 5 calibre at this point. He basically took 2 steps back as a player from last season.

27, 5 and 6 on 44% shooting for a terrible team and only Beasley that other teams really have to worry about? He has to do everything for them.

[redzero]

I don't blame hornetfan for not thinking Dirk is that great. His two worst games of the year have been against the hornets lol.

Oh, I didn't realize putting Dirk in the top 10 means I don't think he's great.


You gave statistical proof that Paul has the ball in his hands 40% of the time. Dirk is the guy I'd rather go to war with NOW. Paul is top 10, not top 5.

Guys, I think Findog has uncovered a shocking secret in basketball! If a player holds the ball 40% of the time, they are guaranteed to be top three in PER, Win Shares, and Defensive Win Shares. Also, they will have the most assists and steals in the league two years straight, and they will shoot 50% from the field. So, if you want to become a great basketball player, hold the ball the most.

Nice discovery, dumbass.

[JoeTait75]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks those guys are a bit overrated.

It's hard to put Dewey in the top 5 when he literally does not have a single reliable offensive move other than the dunk. I mean, look at what Kendrick Perkins does to him by simply keeping him from getting right on top of the rim.

[BadOdor]

I wonder why paul is doing so shitty with a team that should be doing so much better.

Maybe he got figured out and didn't adjust his game? maybe the hornets were a 1-hit wonder?

lol chris paul.

[Findog]

Guys, I think Findog has uncovered a shocking secret in basketball! If a player holds the ball 40% of the time, they are guaranteed to be top three in PER, Win Shares, and Defensive Win Shares. Also, they will have the most assists and steals in the league two years straight, and they will shoot 50% from the field. So, if you want to become a great basketball player, hold the ball the most.

Nice discovery, dumbass.

Just cause I think Dirk > Paul doesn't mean I'm shitting on his game. I have Paul at 7 and you have him and Dwight at 4/5, ahead of Dirk, Duncan, and Carmelo. So who is the dumbass again?

[Chieflion]

27, 5 and 6 on 44% shooting for a terrible team and only Beasley that other teams really have to worry about? He has to do everything for them.
Jermaine O'Neal revived himself in Miami. Same goes for Quentin Richardson, who is a huge upgrade over the small forward last year in Miami. Michael Beasley improved. The team record is actually better despite Wade's struggles and his defense took a huge step back.

[redzero]

Just cause I think Dirk > Paul doesn't mean I'm shitting on his game. I have Paul at 7 and you have him and Dwight at 4/5, ahead of Dirk, Duncan, and Carmelo. So who is the dumbass again?

You are the dumbass, dumbass. You use that retarded Rondo argument that "Paul gets his stats because he holds the ball all the time." If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.

And I didn't state anything about you hating his game.

[Findog]

I wonder why paul is doing so shitty with a team that should be doing so much better.

Maybe he got figured out and didn't adjust his game? maybe the hornets were a 1-hit wonder?

lol chris paul.

I don't know how to put my finger on it, but even though his assist numbers are gaudy, I think Paul dominates the ball too much for New Orleans. I don't think he makes his teammates better as much as he could. I basically agree with the premise of this post:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11540/chris-pauls-role-superstar

[BadOdor]

You are the dumbass, dumbass. You use that retarded Rondo argument that "Paul gets his stats because he holds the ball all the time." If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.

And I didn't state anything about you hating his game.

Hornet fan is definitely mad. Damn, he's as defensive about paul as the LG posters about kobe.

[redzero]

Hornet fan is definitely mad. Damn, he's as defensive about paul as the LG posters about kobe.

People on this forum say the same retarded shit about Paul over and over again. I don't defend Paul in every topic, but I do lots of the time. I'm not so Kobe nuthugger who can't even stand their idol being mentioned in a bad light.

[Findog]

You are the dumbass, dumbass.

:lol u mad?


You use that retarded Rondo argument that "Paul gets his stats because he holds the ball all the time." If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it.

For a guy with his gaudy statistics playing the PG position, he doesn't elevate his teams or win as much as he should. If he's a top 5 player and the best at his position, how did he get locked down by Dahntay Jones and thoroughly outplayed by Billups in the playoffs?

[BadOdor]

:lol u mad?
how did he get locked down by Dahntay Jones and thoroughly outplayed by Billups in the playoffs?

Screw "outplayed", that last game he had what, 3 point and 2 assists or some shit like that??!! How can you call a guy like that a superstar??!!!

[redzero]

For a guy with his gaudy statistics playing the PG position, he doesn't elevate his teams or win as much as he should. If he's a top 5 player and the best at his position, how did he get locked down by Dahntay Jones and thoroughly outplayed by Billups in the playoffs

Tell me, where would you put Jason Kidd in the list of all time point guards?

[Findog]

Tell me, where would you put Jason Kidd in the list of all time point guards?

On the outer periphery of top ten all time.

[redzero]

On the outer periphery of top ten all time.

So, that means that you think Kidd's 16 points on 40% shooting and 10 assists playoff average is worthy of top ten status? Then I guess Paul's similar statistics against the Nuggets are top ten worthy, too.

And Findog is the guy who claims that he would go to war with Dirk Nowitzki, who managed to lose to a far inferior team in six games. Dirk averaged 19 points on 39% shooting that entire series against the eighth seed Warriors, right? And he was outplayed by Stephen Jackson, who locked him up and rained 3's on him.

Unlike Carmelo, unlike LeBron, unlike Wade, and unlike Paul, Dirk has had the best team in the league. In fact, he's had the best team in the leaue for two years straight. And what did Mr. MVP do? He lost to one man four times straight in the Finals and he lost to the eighth seed the following year.

But he's your warrior--the guy who has shown that he can't get the job done in the most important series of his life.

[BadOdor]

So, that means that you think Kidd's 16 points on 40% shooting and 10 assists playoff average is worthy of top ten status? Then I guess Paul's similar statistics against the Nuggets are top ten worthy, too.

And Findog is the guy who claims that he would go to war with Dirk Nowitzki, who managed to lose to a far inferior team in six games. Dirk averaged 19 points on 39% shooting that entire series against the eighth seed Warriors, right? And he was outplayed by Stephen Jackson, who locked him up and rained 3's on him.

Unlike Carmelo, unlike LeBron, unlike Wade, and unlike Paul, Dirk has had the best team in the league. In fact, he's had the best team in the leaue for two years straight. And what did Mr. MVP do? He lost to one man four times straight in the Finals and he lost to the eighth seed the following year.

But he's your warrior--the guy who has shown that he can't get the job done in the most important series of his life.

Crissy paul deferring to jannero motherfucking pargo really showed he takes what it gots as the "man".

[redzero]

Crissy paul deferring to jannero motherfucking pargo really showed he takes what it gots as the "man".

And Kobe letting his team blow a 20 point lead in one quarter on biggest stage of them all, shows the kind of leader he really is. Or how about when he tossed up bricks against Detroit? Or quit on his team in an elimination game?

See, I can do it, too.

[BadOdor]

And Kobe letting his team blow a 20 point lead in one quarter on biggest stage of them all, shows the kind of leader he really is. Or how about when he tossed up bricks against Detroit? Or quit on his team in an elimination game?

See, I can do it, too.

Son, this is about chrissy paul deffering to jannero motherfucking pargo in an playoff elimination game, not abut kobe bryant.

Hey guys, you remember that time when kobe deffered to smush parker?

[Findog]

So, that means that you think Kidd's 16 points on 40% shooting and 10 assists playoff average is worthy of top ten status? Then I guess Paul's similar statistics against the Nuggets are top ten worthy, too.


Kidd took two teams to the Finals with Neck Lips and Dick Jefferson. Get back to me when Paul has gotten past the second round. Are you fucking kidding me with that weak shit?



And Findog is the guy who claims that he would go to war with Dirk Nowitzki, who managed to lose to a far inferior team in six games. Dirk averaged 19 points on 39% shooting that entire series against the eighth seed Warriors, right? And he was outplayed by Stephen Jackson, who locked him up and rained 3's on him.

Hell yeah I'd go to war with Dirk Nowitzki. Paul has made it to the second round once. Dirk has won 9 playoff series.

If you want to bring up the Warriors series as some kind of black mark, why does hobbling around on bone spurs count against him, but 121-63 shouldn't count against Chris Paul? Stephen Jackson has never been able to guard a healthy Dirk.


Unlike Carmelo, unlike LeBron, unlike Wade, and unlike Paul, Dirk has had the best team in the league.

Uh, when was that?


In fact, he's had the best team in the leaue for two years straight.

Uh, enlighten me as to when this was?


And what did Mr. MVP do? He lost to one man four times straight in the Finals and he lost to the eighth seed the following year.

Oh, you're talking about 2006-2007 when his two best sidekicks were Josh Howard and Jason Terry, who have 1 All-Star injury replacement selection between them? He hasn't played with an All Star since Nash in 2004. So Dirk was checking Dwyane Wade himself? Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals? Did you watch the 06 Finals?


But he's your warrior--the guy who has shown that he can't get the job done in the most important series of his life.

I'll take his performances in Games 5 and 6 of the Finals anytime. Circa 2006, you couldn't ask for much more, except for Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant. Wade was a better player at the time. There's no shame in that.

[Findog]

And Kobe letting his team blow a 20 point lead in one quarter on biggest stage of them all, shows the kind of leader he really is. Or how about when he tossed up bricks against Detroit? Or quit on his team in an elimination game?

See, I can do it, too.

No, you can't. Kobe has four rings, including one he got as the best player on his team.

[badfish22]

Oh, I didn't realize putting Dirk in the top 10 means I don't think he's great.

Nice discovery,.
i said "that" great there's a difference. Plus it was kinda a joke.


Your jkidd argument is kinda stupid. Jkidd led his team to the finals twice. Chris is led his team to 121-63 and it looks like they might not make the po's this year.

Paul is still a great player just not worthy of being above Dirk

[redzero]

Kidd took two teams to the Finals with Neck Lips and Dick Jefferson. Get back to me when Paul has gotten past the second round. Are you fucking kidding me with that weak shit?

And he put up the same statistics that Paul did during the Nuggets series over his entire playoff career. Paul's worst series was better than Kidd's entire playoff career performance.


Hell yeah I'd go to war with Dirk Nowitzki. Paul has made it to the second round once. Dirk has won 9 playoff series.

And Dirk has gotten nothing to show for it.


If you want to bring up the Warriors series as some kind of black mark, why does hobbling around on bone spurs count against him, but 121-63 shouldn't count against Chris Paul? Stephen Jackson has never been able to guard a healthy Dirk.

Oh, so you're bringing excuses into this? Don't bring up that Nuggets series if you don't want me bringing up the Warriors series.


Uh, when was that?

2006 and 2007--the years Dirk got to the Finals and won MVP respectively.



Oh, you're talking about 2006-2007 when his two best sidekicks were Josh Howard and Jason Terry, who have 1 All-Star injury replacement selection between them? He hasn't played with an All Star since Nash in 2004. So Dirk was checking Dwyane Wade himself? Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals? Did you watch the 06 Finals?


Oh, so not appearing in All Star games means that Howard and Terry weren't reliable? And while Dirk didn't check Wade by himself, he did let his team lose four straight games in the Finals. He did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship. And I didn't say that Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals. When will Mavs fans learn how to read?

The Mavericks beat the defending champions. They had a 2-0 advantage to a one man team, and lost four straight under Dirk's leadership. And Dirk is your warrior?


I'll take his performances in Games 5 and 6 of the Finals anytime. Circa 2006, you couldn't ask for much more, except for Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant. Wade was a better player at the time. There's no shame in that.

Too bad two good performances in a first to four series doesn't cut it.


i said "that" great there's a difference. Plus it was kinda a joke.


Your jkidd argument is kinda stupid. Jkidd led his team to the finals twice. Chris is led his team to 121-63 and it looks like they might not make the po's this year.

Paul is still a great player just not worthy of being above Dirk

And I'll repeat myself: Paul's worst playoff series is better than Kidd's playoff career statistically. Paul at his worst performed better than Kidd throughout his career.

When Paul plays like Kidd in the playoffs, he "disappears."

[redzero]

No, you can't. Kobe has four rings, including one he got as the best player on his team.

Kobe got one ring as the best player on his team, but that wouldn't have been possible without the best supporting cast. That's the reason LeBron isn't an NBA champion yet.

I would love to see what Paul could do with the best supporting cast.

We already know what Dirk did.

[badfish22]

:lmao @ you trying to put kidds worth in statistics.

[redzero]

:lmao @ you trying to put kidds worth in statistics.

It's got to be the mythical intangibles, right? It's a shame Chris Paul isn't put on a pedestal like that, because he could play like crap and people would still praise him if he did.

[badfish22]

He got to the finals twice. Paul is currently leading a team with a good amount of talent that is on pace to not make the po's.
And :lol at you thinkg Jason fuckin Kidd doesn't have intangibles.

[BadOdor]

Kobe got one ring as the best player on his team, but that wouldn't have been possible without the best supporting cast. That's the reason LeBron isn't an NBA champion yet.

I would love to see what Paul could do with the best supporting cast.

We already know what Dirk did.

Let us know when crissy "121-63" paul gets passed beyond the second round.

So far all he has on his resume is his massive game 7 choke and defference to jannero motherfucking pargo.

[endrity]

Wait a sec, how in the world do you determine that the Mavs minus Dirk were the best supporting cast in the league for those two seasons?

At their best, in 06, the Mavs were a deep team but filled as it is now with a bunch of specialists, role players good at one thing but not more than that, kind of like it is now. And I am not the first to say that depth matters little in the playoffs. More than a team of good players 2-12, you need another one or two players who can make a difference.

And surely on that basis, the cast that Kobe has now, or that the Celtics have put together is quite a bit ahead of what Dirk had around him.

Also, as for the Kidd v. Paul conversation, there is one quite clear intangible that Kidd has much more than Paul ever will, defense. At his best, Kidd could absolutely shut down positions 1-3. Look what he did to Pierce in ECF 02 or Billups in ECF 03. In fact while somehow we remember those Nets teams as a free flowing, fast break offense, precursor to D'Antoni's Suns, they were not. They were an average offensive team, who struggled a bit in the halfcourt, and generated some of its offense through its amazing defense. And I don't think we are ever going to see Paul, just like Nash, play in a similar kind of team.

[TDMVPDPOY]

kidds peak was only what 2-3 seasons and after that his been living off his reputation....i find him overrated....

[endrity]

Well he had knee surgery after 04 I think, so naturally that slowed him down quite a bit but stats wise he was good before and after his peak.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Well he had knee surgery after 04 I think, so naturally that slowed him down quite a bit but stats wise he was good before and after his peak.

wat sort of excuse is that...

tim duncan had knee surgery also in 99/00, and look what happen...didnt stop him from collecting 3 more rings, b2b mvps etc

kidd atm is just looking for his triple double and calling it a day

[endrity]

Duncan has never had microfracture surgery.

Regardless the point you are making is still well within what we have been saying. Hornetfan was saying that CP3 is a better player because he has stats now that Kidd in his best day couldn't have. When intangibles were mentioned he refuted them as abstract. What I was trying to point out is that in his prime, and we can let that be 2-3 years it doesn't really matter, Kidd was one of the best defenders in the league as well, something which CP3 never will be.

[Donkeybong]

Kobe is fucking amazing. Watching almost every laker game this year, he has gotten significantly better, which I didnt think was possible. Havent watched too many Cav games though, so I can't compare him accurately to James.

[Muser]

:lmao at thinking that Mavs team had a great supporting cast.

[redzero]

:lmao at thinking that Mavs team had a great supporting cast.

I didn't say that Dirk had a "great" supporting cast. As a whole, the Mavericks were the best team in the league in 06 and 07.

[T2150]

Who are your top 10 players based on this season only?

My list is as follows:

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3-6: Dirk, Duncan, Melo, Wade, any order you want
7: Chrissy Paul
8: Dwight Howard
9: Steve Nash
10-13: Durant, Roy, D Will, Gasol, any order you want


1. LBJ
2. Nash (& I'm not even a fan)
3. Mamba
4. Dirk
5. Melo/Timmeh

[milkshakeballa]

Jury would like to state that any list that does not include Kevin Durant is motherfucking null and void

[Goran Dragic]

1. LBJ
2. Nash (& I'm not even a fan)
3. Mamba
4. Dirk
5. Melo/Timmeh


Even in Nash's golden age he wasn't better than Kobe.

[JoeTait75]

Nash doesn't play enough defense to be a top-five player.

[sonic21]

I didn't say that Dirk had a "great" supporting cast. As a whole, the Mavericks were the best team in the league in 06 and 07.

Dirk had Josh Howard as a 2nd option. Howard is only playing like a 2nd option against the spurs.

[Findog]

And he put up the same statistics that Paul did during the Nuggets series over his entire playoff career. Paul's worst series was better than Kidd's entire playoff career performance.

When did the Hornets make the Finals? Remind me when that happened please.




And Dirk has gotten nothing to show for it.

Just a better career and more results than Chrissy Paul.




Oh, so you're bringing excuses into this? Don't bring up that Nuggets series if you don't want me bringing up the Warriors series.

You brought up the Warriors series. I just want to know why that should count against Dirk, but 121-63 shouldn't count against Chrissy. Take both of those series away, and Dirk still has a Finals trip on his resume. Chrissy has a trip to the second round.




2006 and 2007--the years Dirk got to the Finals and won MVP respectively.

Uh, ok I guess.



Oh, so not appearing in All Star games means that Howard and Terry weren't reliable?

Kobe Bryant 2009 - Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom
Paul Pierce 2008 - Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen
Tim Duncan 2007 - Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker
Dwyane Wade 2006 - Shaq (still effective)and Udonis Haslem
Dirk 2006 - Josh Howard and Jason Terry

And no, Howard and Terry are anything but reliable. Did you not pick that up in the 2008 Hornets-Mavs series? You probably think Dirk played poorly in that series bc he let West tap him on the cheek. Give Dirk any of those above supporting casts instead of Howard and Terry, and he's covered in bling.



And while Dirk didn't check Wade by himself, he did let his team lose four straight games in the Finals. He did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship.

So even though the overwhelming reason why they didn't win the Finals or beat Golden State the following year was lack of perimeter defense, and Dirk didn't check either Wade or Davis, and Dirk was magnificent in the final two games of the Finals, he did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship. Great take. :toast


And I didn't say that Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals. When will Mavs fans learn how to read?

"He did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship."


The Mavericks beat the defending champions. They had a 2-0 advantage to a one man team, and lost four straight under Dirk's leadership. And Dirk is your warrior?

The Heat were not a one-man team. Fuck, have you ever watched a basketball game in your life? Leadership has nothing to do with it. Wade was terrible in the first two games in Dallas. Dirk was terrible in Game 4 and so-so in Game 3. The Heat had better coaching, a better performance from their best player (Dirk was great, Wade was historically good), and they had a low-post presence that made it extremely difficult to double Wade. Yes, Dirk is a warrior. He wouldn't defer to Jannero Pargo in the 4th Quarter of a Game 7 against the Spurs. Define "leadership." Should Dirk have checked Wade or Davis instead of Devin Harris or Jason Terry? Should he have pulled those guys aside and said "No, I got him, even though I'm a 7-foot PF and they're 6'5 shooting guards."




Too bad two good performances in a first to four series doesn't cut it.

Basketball is a team game. Dirk deserves some of the blame, but hardly all of it, for the losses to Miami and Golden State. Just like Chrissy deserves some, but not all of the blame for 121-63.




And I'll repeat myself: Paul's worst playoff series is better than Kidd's playoff career statistically.

And yet Kidd with "subpar statistics" took Neck Lips and Dick Jefferson to the Finals twice, while Paul's team choked at home in Game 7 when he was putting up good stats. Maybe you might try watching a game now and then instead of jacking your weenus to stats?


Paul at his worst performed better than Kidd throughout his career.

:lmao

No comment or rebuttal required.


When Paul plays like Kidd in the playoffs, he "disappears."

Get back to me when Paul doesn't get locked down by Dahntay Jones or makes it past the second round. Until then, he can't carry Jason Kidd's jockstrap, career-wise.

[Findog]

I didn't say that Dirk had a "great" supporting cast. As a whole, the Mavericks were the best team in the league in 06 and 07.

So they didn't have a "great" supporting cast, yet they were the "best team" in 2006 and 2007. I wonder how that works.

[badfish22]

So they didn't have a "great" supporting cast, yet they were the "best team" in 2006 and 2007. I wonder how that works.

It just speaks to the greatness of Dirk Nowitzki. So he basically made our point for us. :king

[Findog]

It just speaks to the greatness of Dirk Nowitzki. So he basically made our point for us. :king

Indeed

[DAF86]

I don't know what the fuck are you talking about but if it is about the '06/'07 Mavs then I have to say that they had a fucking great suporting cast, that's why they were the best team in the league. Too bad they couldn't take advantage of it.

[Findog]

I don't know what the fuck are you talking about but if it is about the '06/'07 Mavs then I have to say that they had a fucking great suporting cast, that's why they were the best team in the league. Too bad they couldn't take advantage of it.

It was the same supporting cast as 06, minus Griffin, Daniels and Van Horn, but + Buckner and Croshere. If anything the supporting cast was worse.

[DAF86]

It was the same supporting cast as 06, minus Griffin, Daniels and Van Horn, but + Buckner and Croshere. If anything the supporting cast was worse.

I'm talking about both seasons, I should have put "'06 and '07 Mavs"

[Findog]

I'm talking about both seasons, I should have put "'06 and '07 Mavs"

It was a good supporting cast, a lot of really good players, but Dirk hasn't played with a bona fide All Star since Nash in 2004. He hasn't had Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom, Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili/Tony Parker, or Shaq and take your pick of whoever was Miami's 3rd-best player.

[Hornets1]

Who are your top 10 players based on this season only?

My list is as follows:

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3-6: Dirk, Duncan, Melo, Wade, any order you want
7: Chrissy Paul
8: Dwight Howard
9: Steve Nash
10-13: Durant, Roy, D Will, Gasol, any order you want


Why do you have to be an absolute douchebag towards the Hornets every chance you get?

[Findog]

Why do you have to be an absolute douchebag towards the Hornets every chance you get?

I've got him in the top 10?!!!!???

[DAF86]

It was a good supporting cast, a lot of really good players, but Dirk hasn't played with a bona fide All Star since Nash in 2004. He hasn't had Pau Gasol/Lamar Odom, Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili/Tony Parker, or Shaq and take your pick of whoever was Miami's 3rd-best player.

Having a team full of good and complete players is a lot of times better than having one or two border-line all-stars teammates. Besides wasn't Howard an all-star or close to it during that time?

You had Harris, Daniels, Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, Diop, Dampier and I'm sure forgetting somebody else. That was one hell of a suporting cast and IMO the best on those seasons.

[Hornets1]

Why does Chris Paul have to be an absolute douchebag every time he steps on the court?

He can do whatever the fuck he wants! Just like all superstars! However, CP3 is the only player w/ the ability to post 30 pts, 19 asts, and 9 rbs in a single game(and still not crack the Top 5 in player rankings by a bunch of retarded people on ST who hate on him for the sake of hating), and Findouche just can't be civil about anything related to the Hornets.

Yea, the Mavs are having a much better year, and Dirk is playing great, but everyone knows you won't win the title. But thats OK for you, isn't it; As long as the Hornets don't do better............

[DAF86]

Why do you have to be an absolute douchebag towards the Hornets every chance you get?

'cause CP3 owns the entire Mavs franchise.

[Hornets1]

I've got him in the top 10?!!!!???

Chrissy Paul? You just CAN"T put Paul or Chris Paul, can you?

[Findog]

He can do whatever the fuck he wants! Just like all superstars! However, CP3 is the only player w/ the ability to post 30 pts, 19 asts, and 9 rbs in a single game(and still not crack the Top 5 in player rankings by a bunch of retarded people on ST who hate on him for the sake of hating), and Findouche just can't be civil about anything related to the Hornets.


Paul is a great player, but there are at least 5 guys better than him. I'll name them for you: Bron, Kobe, Wade, Duncan, Dirk and Melo.



Yea, the Mavs are having a much better year, and Dirk is playing great, but everyone knows you won't win the title. But thats OK for you, isn't it; As long as the Hornets don't do better

I don't give a fuck about your sorry franchise. I enjoy rooting for my team no matter what. At no point have I ever thought "Oh, I'm okay with whatever we do this year, so long as we're better than the Hornets." Sorry, but your franchise doesn't merit that kind of attention or thought.

[Findog]

Chrissy Paul? You just CAN"T put Paul or Chris Paul, can you?

I recognize his greatness as the seventh-best player in the game, but that doesn't mean I have to suck his dick like you do.

[BadOdor]

Chrissy Paul? You just CAN"T put Paul or Chris Paul, can you?

hornet fan is very mad.

[Red Hawk #21]

Why do you have to be an absolute douchebag towards the Hornets every chance you get?

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/joejohnson24/girl-crying_l.jpg

[sonic21]

Having a team full of good and complete players is a lot of times better than having one or two border-line all-stars teammates. Besides wasn't Howard an all-star or close to it during that time?

You had Harris, Daniels, Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, Diop, Dampier and I'm sure forgetting somebody else. That was one hell of a suporting cast and IMO the best on those seasons.

well, borderline allstar are not consistent. they will choke eventually at some point (2006 finals, dirk had no help).

[stretch]

Duncan has been a monster this year. He's been keeping the Spurs afloat while Jefferson, Parker and Manu have played with themselves.

You could say the same about Dirk being a monster while JET, Howard, and Barea have played with themselves. Dirk has clearly been the better and more dominant player over Duncan this season.

[Mavs_man_41]

My top 10:

1) Kobe
2) Lebron
3) Dirk
4) Carmelo
5) CP3
6) Duncan
7) Wade (normally I'd rank him higher, but he's having an off year by his standards)
8) Howard
9) Nash
10) Durant

What really surprises me most is that Nash is somehow able to be on this list given his age. He still somehow manages to absolutely amaze me on the offensive end. Also Dirk's resurgence is somewhat of a pleasant surprise, I was almost sure he was starting to decline.

[Mavs_man_41]

Actually, I might even edit that and add Gasol as number 10

[Venti Quattro]

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Dirk
4. Melo
5. Durant
6. Nash
7. Wade
8. Deron
9. CP3
10. D12

[Xylus]

There's no way in hell Dwight Howard is playing better than Tim Duncan.

Duncan is averaging 20, 10, and 3. He's shooting a career high from the field (55%) and from the charity stripe (78%!). And he's only playing 32 minutes a game.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Arrogance is still Kobe's biggest weakness. He's a far better shooter, and IMO a much smarter player than LeBron. But he still suffers from the "I'm so much better than you that I can take a shot this freaking ridiculous and still make it look easy" and ends up missing badly a few times every game.

If it's just pure shooting ability, I think Kobe is right up there with Dirk, Nash, Kapono, etc. If the guy sets his feet and shoots properly, there's very few if any guys better than Kobe at shooting the ball. His form is flawless.


This post is SO on the money. Kobe's greatest strength is also is greatest weakness. He honestly believes that he can make every shot. His confidence makes him so great but it also makes him unable to differentiate between good shots and bad shots. Kobe takes super hard fall away spinning the wrong way off balance shots all the time for no reason. Those shots have always been why he doesn't shoot a higher percentage. Like mono said when he takes his time, lowers the level of difficulty on his shots and gets his feet under him he's money. That being said he has done a slightly better job of reducing the amount of those shots he takes and that's why he is shooting a better percentage this season. He's getting into the post more and getting higher percentage looks rather than settling for some bullshit fall away 3's.

[Findog]

There's no way in hell Dwight Howard is playing better than Tim Duncan.

Duncan is averaging 20, 10, and 3. He's shooting a career high from the field (55%) and from the charity stripe (78%!). And he's only playing 32 minutes a game.

I won't quibble with somebody ranking Nash or Melo a little higher or lower than me, but it's OFFENSIVE to say Howard is playing better than Duncan.

[Jess]

That must also explain Spur Fan's douchebag attitude towards Jason Terry.

Has more to do with the nut-punching, turtle head, and Jay Jay the Jet Plane impression.

[DPG21920]

Dwight can dunk ferociously though.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Has more to do with the nut-punching, turtle head, and Jay Jay the Jet Plane impression.


And I'm sure Chris Paul hatred has nothing to do with the stuff Chris Paul pulls during games.

[DPG21920]

Chris Paul also punches people in the nutz, and is a dirty little SOB. Great player, complete douche on the court.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I would want him on the team I root for. Of course I would.

[Venti Quattro]

Chris Paul also punches people in the nutz, and is a dirty little SOB. Great player, complete douche on the court.

This has nothing to do with whether or not I would want him on the team I root for. Of course I would.
Same thing I feel for Rondo. He's a fucking douchebag but no way I will pass up the opportunity to be the point guard of the Lakers if given the chance.

[DAF86]

That must also explain Spur Fan's douchebag attitude towards Jason Terry.

No, that's just 'cause he's a bitch. Besides Terry can't own nobody.

[Findog]

No, that's just 'cause he's a bitch. Besides Terry can't own nobody.

Then what would you call his performances over the years against San Antonio? I don't see Spurs fans giving themselves wedgies over Erick Dampier.