Substantive and Quality of Opponents Should Factor In "Greatest Title"

[F_U_Buddy]

So in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:

Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:

Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,

While he's faced some good offensive competition Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for shit. He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...


On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.


Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek

Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best. :hat

[PGDynasty24]

*Facepalm*,Kobe is my favorite player but this is pretty stupid,not going to lie...

[JamStone]

Shawn Amarion is a beast.

[F_U_Buddy]

*Facepalm*,Kobe is my favorite player but this is pretty stupid,not going to lie...


only if you have surface basketball knowledge is this stupid....I've played and studied the game in high school, college, and local tourny level...and I'm closer to the truth than your comment on insensibility to moral truth...you may not like my style but I doubt you can legitimately come with something to refute it.

[XFactor]

I think the post is irrelevant, there are alot of things not mentioned in the stats when talking about defense. Some guys can stick to you like glue but not get 1 rebound or block or steal but still be able to slow you down, those IMO are the true defenders and Im sure of those players listed above for Duncan them had that ability even though they didn't have the stats to make it to All Defensive NBA team etc.

[XFactor]

Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best. :hat

From 2000-2009 only the 2009 Lakers were able to win a title without an Allstar Bigman/Center (Even though Bynum and Gasol should be counted) So I think a Center/Big is a major piece for a team to contend.

[JamStone]

For Kobe, You added older players who played against Kobe in their declining years but didn't include many older big men that played against Duncan, average players like Maggette and Harrington and Eddie Jones, defensive players that aren't that great offensively like Bowen and Raja and Prince and Kirilenko.

With all that energy you spent with that post pseudo-creating a lopsided picture, why did you neglect big men like--oh off the top of my head--Hakeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, Marcus Camby, Antonio Davis, Robert Horry, Kurt Thomas, Al Horford, David Lee, Antonio McDyess, Al Jefferson, Nene, LaMarcus Aldridge, David Lee, Emeka Okafor, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, Mehmet Okur... to name a few.

[djohn2oo8]

only if you have surface basketball knowledge is this stupid....I've played and studied the game in high school, college, and local tourny level...and I'm closer to the truth than your comment on insensibility to moral truth...you may not like my style but I doubt you can legitimately come with something to refute it.

And warmed the bench at all three phases

[doobs]

And warmed the bench at all three phases

Makes it easier to study.

[F_U_Buddy]

For Kobe, You added older players who played against Kobe in their declining years but didn't include many older big men that played against Duncan, average players like Maggette and Harrington and Eddie Jones, defensive players that aren't that great offensively like Bowen and Raja and Prince and Kirilenko.

With all that energy you spent with that post pseudo-creating a lopsided picture, why did you neglect big men like--oh off the top of my head--Hakeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, Marcus Camby, Antonio Davis, Robert Horry, Kurt Thomas, Al Horford, David Lee, Antonio McDyess, Al Jefferson, Nene, LaMarcus Aldridge, David Lee, Emeka Okafor, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, Mehmet Okur... to name a few.

I added a few for Duncan but I'm more focused on quality opponents...your list is mainly rubbish...and please if you wished any credibility on Duncan you'd remove Hakeems name from that list...but the fact remains Duncan hasn't worked as hard as Kobe maybe didn't need to but I know he hasn't...he parks in the paint and waits for the ball...not hardly yeoman's work...

[JoeTait75]

I added a few for Duncan but I'm more focused on quality opponents...your list is mainly rubbish...and please if you wished any credibility on Duncan you'd remove Hakeems name from that list...but the fact remains Duncan hasn't worked as hard as Kobe maybe didn't need to but I know he hasn't...he parks in the paint and waits for the ball...not hardly yeoman's work...

Says the poster who included Josh Howard and Bad Porn Maggette on his list of "quality opponents."

[Smooth Criminal]

So in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:

Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:

Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,

While he's faced some good offensive competition Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for shit. He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...


On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.


Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek

Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best. :hat

Those statement don't match at all...

[Smooth Criminal]

So in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:

Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:

Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,

While he's faced some good offensive competition Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for shit. He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...


On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.


Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek

Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best. :hat

Fail

[spursncowboys]

For Kobe, You added older players who played against Kobe in their declining years but didn't include many older big men that played against Duncan, average players like Maggette and Harrington and Eddie Jones, defensive players that aren't that great offensively like Bowen and Raja and Prince and Kirilenko.

With all that energy you spent with that post pseudo-creating a lopsided picture, why did you neglect big men like--oh off the top of my head--Hakeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Rik Smits, Vlade Divac, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutombo, Marcus Camby, Antonio Davis, Robert Horry, Kurt Thomas, Al Horford, David Lee, Antonio McDyess, Al Jefferson, Nene, LaMarcus Aldridge, David Lee, Emeka Okafor, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Lamar Odom, Kenyon Martin, Mehmet Okur... to name a few. Samaki Walker, Horace Grant.

[F_U_Buddy]

Fail

you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't :toast...I see people posting links....ganging up...taking comfort in one another....licking each others asses....responding with one liners and jokes...and incomplete sentences such as "fail" :lmao.... but I haven't really seen any real basketball analysis outside of Lakaluva...and 21blessings....and a few others most posters here remind me of the lego critique man....Can't build one but sure can critique it...classic and I love it...:king I guess I will just have to keep educating you numnuts until I see improvement or a whimper of thoughtful anaylsis....sometimes I think my work goes unappreciated....

[XFactor]

you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't :toast...I see people posting links....ganging up...taking comfort in one another....licking each others asses....responding with one liners and jokes...and incomplete sentences such as "fail" :lmao.... but I haven't really seen any real basketball analysis outside of Lakaluva...and 21blessings....and a few others most posters here remind me of the lego critique man....Can't build one but sure can critique it...classic and I love it...:king I guess I will just have to keep educating you numnuts until I see improvement or a whimper of thoughtful anaylsis....sometimes I think my work goes unappreciated....

Why would anyone provide a real good educated in depth basketball analysis on a bad thread with an argument that doesn't even make sense?

[Findog]

So much effort on so much fail...This 15 year old actually thinks we read this?

[Fpoonsie]

I'm not about to start arguing as to whom the better all-around player is, but it looks like you failed to account for the fact that many of those swing men you mentioned declined to go into the paint MANY-a-time simply due to the fact that Timmy was stationed there. Or after driving had their shot changed and/or blocked by the big guy inside.

[Findog]

I'm not about to start arguing as to whom the better all-around player is, but it looks like you failed to account for the fact that many of those swing men you mentioned declined to go into the paint MANY-a-time simply due to the fact that Timmy was stationed there. Or after driving had their shot changed and/or blocked by the big guy inside.

Don't even start engaging with this douche. He's here to rile people up and get a reaction, not discuss basketball.

[Smooth Criminal]

you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't :toast...I see people posting links....ganging up...taking comfort in one another....licking each others asses....responding with one liners and jokes...and incomplete sentences such as "fail" :lmao.... but I haven't really seen any real basketball analysis outside of Lakaluva...and 21blessings....and a few others most posters here remind me of the lego critique man....Can't build one but sure can critique it...classic and I love it...:king I guess I will just have to keep educating you numnuts until I see improvement or a whimper of thoughtful anaylsis....sometimes I think my work goes unappreciated....

You have yet to display a single ounce of basketball knowledge. People with below basic level intelligence can't be educators. You're "Work" does go unappreciated, and it's because nobody likes you.

[F_U_Buddy]

Why would anyone provide a real good educated in depth basketball analysis on a bad thread with an argument that doesn't even make sense?


dude your a bulls fan...what analysis do you have outside of being angry at Kobe for chasing down MJ...your bias clouds your judgment on many levels...you're down with the posters here because they defend MJ against Kobe I can see straight through you....these guys are a comfort group to you...this is therapy for you as a bulls fan...I get it...but pretty soon your boy will be run down and you and other bulls fans won't be able to take comfort and hide in the spurs house......lmao.....

[Fpoonsie]

Don't even start engaging with this douche. He's here to rile people up and get a reaction, not discuss basketball.

[sigh] I'm finding it more and more difficult to separate the trolls from the idiotic, overzealous fan. Thanks for the heads up.

Edit: I should've known something was amiss by the ridiculous sig.

[F_U_Buddy]

You have yet to display a single ounce of basketball knowledge. People with below basic level intelligence can't be educators. You're "Work" does go unappreciated, and it's because nobody likes you.


Hot Potato! Really nobody likes me....really (scratching my head)...seriously...get the fuck outta here I don't believe you. say it ain't so...maybe one day you'll grow a fat dick and not care what others think of you...word of advice my Laker friend....when you're licking ass stop trying to be all classy and meticulous with it...your spur and mav friends don't care how you lick it as long as you lick it....it's ass your licking for crying out loud...till then enjoy that ass tasting...in fact take this wine and cheese it may taste better as you're doing the deed....:whine

[Chieflion]

He is going to start this bullshit repeatedly until someone pinks him, no?

[F_U_Buddy]

So much effort on so much fail...This 15 year old actually thinks we read this?

I notice you keep saying this...for the record it takes me no time (no effort) to spit knowledge some of us were born on the genetic upside you know.....:lol

[ChrisRichards]

And warmed the bench at all three phases
not trying to defend the guy, but bench warmers, role players are far more successful and knowledgeable than your superstar players.


in hindsight,phil jackson as a player pretty much sucked, but he was a hof coach. jordan and magic johnson are belongs in the top 10 player list but they also sucked as a GM/Coach.

danny ferry was a horrible player but no one would argue that he's a worst GM.

[Smooth Criminal]

you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't :toast...I see people posting links....ganging up...taking comfort in one another....licking each others asses....responding with one liners and jokes...and incomplete sentences such as "fail" :lmao.... but I haven't really seen any real basketball analysis outside of Lakaluva...and 21blessings....and a few others most posters here remind me of the lego critique man....Can't build one but sure can critique it...classic and I love it...:king I guess I will just have to keep educating you numnuts until I see improvement or a whimper of thoughtful anaylsis....sometimes I think my work goes unappreciated....


You have yet to display a single ounce of basketball knowledge. People with below basic level intelligence can't be educators. You're "Work" does go unappreciated, and it's because nobody likes you.


Hot Potato! Really nobody likes me....really (scratching my head)...seriously...get the fuck outta here I don't believe you. say it ain't so...maybe one day you'll grow a fat dick and not care what others think of you...word of advice my Laker friend....when you're licking ass stop trying to be all classy and meticulous with it...your spur and mav friends don't care how you lick it as long as you lick it....it's ass your licking for crying out loud...till then enjoy that ass tasting...in fact take this wine and cheese it may taste better as you're doing the deed....:whine
Don't care what people think, just telling you why less than half the people here take the time to read the shit you post.

[Findog]

I notice you keep saying this...for the record it takes me no time (no effort) to spit knowledge some of us were born on the genetic upside you know.....:lol

I see your username, click on the thread, scroll past the diarrhea in the first post and then begin reading the responses, which is the best part of any of your threads. You're like Camille Paglia's columns on Salon.com

[WalterSobchak]

you seem pretty knowledgeable yourself...thus far what I've noticed on this board is a bunch of blowhards pretending to know basketballl when it fact they really don't :toast...I see people posting links....ganging up...taking comfort in one another....licking each others asses....responding with one liners and jokes...and incomplete sentences such as "fail" :lmao.... but I haven't really seen any real basketball analysis outside of Lakaluva...and 21blessings....and a few others most posters here remind me of the lego critique man....Can't build one but sure can critique it...classic and I love it...:king I guess I will just have to keep educating you numnuts until I see improvement or a whimper of thoughtful anaylsis....sometimes I think my work goes unappreciated....


:lmao

[Double-Up]

:lmao

The OP is some character for making that statement. :lol

[Killakobe81]

While I do agree that Kobe's competition has been tougher ESPEciually if you limit it to PF's like he is called by most...I dont think you can make a definitive argumnent for either ....Duncan should really be a 4x FINALS MVP and 2 time MVP but Kobe's been probaly robbed of at least one ...
Either way it's Kobe and Duncan #1 and #2 BUT those that argue Shaq are really foolish there was only 1 season I felt that Shaq was without a doubt the BEST player in the NBA that was his MVP season in 2000. He had some other great playoff runs but Shaq is an under-acheiver in my eyes he SHOULD of been the most dominant player ever even over MJ but he has fallen far short of that while Kobe and Duncan always made the most of their talent and skill ...

[WalterSobchak]

The OP is some character for making that statement. :lol

The OP is completely out of his fucking element.

[XFactor]

The OP is completely out of his fucking element.

:lol:lol:lol

[Cry Havoc]

Skyyyyyyyyyrockets in flight!

...

Afternoon delight!

[z0sa]

So in my quest to validate both Timmy and Mr 81’s accomplishments included is a list of players at multiple positions that Duncan and Kobe currently or previously have/had the task of guarding:

Duncans most quality and consistent opponent total is roughly 14 and they are:

Kevin Garnett , Dirk Nowitski, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh, Jermaine Oneal, Pau Gasol, RaSheed Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Carlos Boozer, Chris Webber, Shaq, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudamire, Yao Ming,

While he's faced some good offensive competition Duncan has relatively been on easy street compared to Kobe. Of all the players listed above with the exception of Garnett not one is known for playing defense...Duncan hasn't had to work for shit. He has the luxury of relaxing on the defensive end and he never gets assigned the other teams best player (all the time) which is usually a high energy 1 or 2 guard. Like I maintain he'd be nobody in the Hakeem Olajuwon era...we wouldn't even know of this cat...


On the other hand Kobe’s most quality opponents total: 40...For the most part Kobe has the offensive and defensive assignment on these high energy cats... as you scroll through the list notice the defensive minded players that had the Kobe Assignment.


Michael Jordan , Reggie Miller, Paul Pierece , Allen Iverson, Carmelo Anthony , Lebron James , T-MAC , D Wade, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson, Shawn Amarion , Michael Redd, , Manu Ginobilli, Jason Richardson, Ben Gordon, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Jerry Stackhouse, Andre Igoudala, Stephen Jackson, Eddie Jones, Brandon Roy, Michael Finley, JR Smith…, Latrell Sprewell, Ron Artest, , Tayshawn Prince, Dre Kirilenko, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Rashard Lewis, Caron Butler, Al Harrington, Corey Maggette, Bruce Bowen, Josh Smith, Jeff Hornacek

Personally I find the disparity in quality opponents 40-14 pretty telling in Kobe’s favor….also the most important thing that disqualifies Duncan from being greater than Kobe is the fact alone that he’s a big man. I do not think the greatest Big Man is better than the Greatest Guard by virtue of the guard (from the 1 or 2 position) having to “orchestrate the offense” bring the ball up, set up his teammates and get his shot. All the big man needs to do is park his ass in the lane and wait for the guard to swing the ball his way . The guard’s work is more impressive and therefore by default Kobe should be considered the best. :hat


"When I see a solar eclipse, like the one I went to last year in Hawaii, I think 'Oh no! Is the moon eating the sun?' I don't know. Because I'm a caveman -- that's the way I think."

[Native American]

Coyotes are strange animals. Foolishly they will attack and chase crows and robins ony to watch them fly away untouched and often leaving droppings on the coyotes' heads. Even more curious, the coyotes who experience this will still chase crows and robins time after time. And when I say this I mean why does F_U_Buddy continue to post when he keeps getting shitted on?

[Chieflion]

Coyotes are strange animals. Foolishly they will attack and chase crows and robins ony to watch them fly away untouched and often leaving droppings on the coyotes' heads. Even more curious, the coyotes who experience this will still chase crows and robins time after time. And when I say this I mean why does F_U_Buddy continue to post when he keeps getting shitted on?
Never gets old.:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[admiralsnackbar]

And when I say this I mean why does F_U_Buddy continue to post when he keeps getting shitted on?

He already implied his hubris is a consequence of having grown a fat dick.

...may have failed to mention it was mounted on his shoulders, though.

[angelbelow]

lol wtf

[Spursmania]

Is the Op for real? I mean really, what an ass:lmao

[Muser]

lmao leaving one of the best defensive big men to ever play in ben wallace off the list.