This is a Thread...

[balli]

I've been wanting to make for awhile, but I've been hesitant to do so. Mainly because I'm just going to ask a bunch of highly hypothetical questions, have nothing intelligent or insightful to say myself or any column/article to cite. Plus, this is a topic that'll probably unite more people than it divides, which is no fun.

Nevertheless, I'm curious about people's opinions on these matters:

When it comes down to it, how strong is America? If the country and world continue to devolve (and assuming America doesn't divide itself with civil war) in the face of such hardship, how happy should we be, to be Americans? Are we innately better or more equipped for trial than the rest of the world? Are we more decent? More intelligent? Harder working? If we renege on all our foreign debt? Embroil ourselves in global war? If the stock market collapses and becomes non-existent? If we have to kill 3 billion people and literally turn ourselves into 100% for-the-state fascists in order to save ourselves?

Could we do it?

No matter how weak or fucked up we are, at the end of the day, can we count on being stronger than everyone else combined? Could we do it while retaining at least our notions of freedom? Could America take over the world and turn it into OUR police state, if need be? Could we single handedly win another World War? No matter how bad things are, if we inflict enough pain on the rest of the world, could we ensure our own safety if not prosperity? Could China reach the same conclusions?

Thoughts?

[ChumpDumper]

I'll let you know after I see the new Red Dawn. I've got a good feeling we've still got what it takes.

[Ignignokt]

Yes and No. It could go either way.

[“bright and shiny”]

I remember my first beer also.
:)

[hope4dopes]

I've been wanting to make for awhile, but I've been hesitant to do so. Mainly because I'm just going to ask a bunch of highly hypothetical questions, have nothing intelligent or insightful to say myself or any column/article to cite. Plus, this is a topic that'll probably unite more people than it divides, which is no fun.

Nevertheless, I'm curious about people's opinions on these matters:

When it comes down to it, how strong is America? If the country and world continue to devolve (and assuming America doesn't divide itself with civil war) in the face of such hardship, how happy should we be, to be Americans? Are we innately better or more equipped for trial than the rest of the world? Are we more decent? More intelligent? Harder working? If we renege on all our foreign debt? Embroil ourselves in global war? If the stock market collapses and becomes non-existent? If we have to kill 3 billion people and literally turn ourselves into 100% for-the-state fascists in order to save ourselves?

Could we do it?

No matter how weak or fucked up we are, at the end of the day, can we count on being stronger than everyone else combined? Could we do it while retaining at least our notions of freedom? Could America take over the world and turn it into OUR police state, if need be? Could we single handedly win another World War? No matter how bad things are, if we inflict enough pain on the rest of the world, could we ensure our own safety if not prosperity? Could China reach the same conclusions?


Thoughts?

Well yeah, first let me say I'm really impressed that you wrote more than three sentences with out a single death threat.

As for your questions No Bali as you've constantly pointed out we, Americans are a bunch of fat, lazy, fucked up, incompetent, immoral,stupid,bloodthirsty scum...well at least those of us that are white,and or conservatives. What would China do with such garbage.

Dude don't believe what all the voices in your head say.

[balli]

Well yeah, first let me say I'm really impressed that you wrote more than three sentences with out a single death threat.
I alluded to killing three billion people.


No Bali as you've constantly pointed out we, Americans are a bunch of fat, lazy, fucked up, incompetent, immoral,stupid,bloodthirsty scum...well at least those of us that are white,and or conservatives.
And I believe that. Though I never condemned anybody for being white. I'm white. WASP, is I think what you meant?

And I don't really give much of a fuck. I'll be long and dead before our real problems start. If not, I've already picked out my spots deep, deep, deep in Southern Utah's labyrinth.

I personally feel like you civilian's decedents are fucked. I was just curious if you all felt the same? No need to get all butthurt about it.

[PixelPusher]

I think the U.S. lacks the cultural homogeneity requited to become a full fledged nationalist/fascist military state. Also...

If the country and world continue to devolve
The rest of the world is actually doing better, not worse.

[Ignignokt]

I think the U.S. lacks the cultural homogeneity requited to become a full fledged nationalist/fascist military state. Also...

The rest of the world is actually doing better, not worse.

So we can assume you think the rest of the world is better of than the US, or am i reading you wrong?

[Ignignokt]

*off

[balli]

The rest of the world is actually doing better, not worse.
I actually went off on angel awhile back, trying to explain how much better off our species is than at any other time in human history. And we are.

Just, not for much longer, IMO.

[Ignignokt]

I actually went off on angel awhile back, trying to explain how much better off our species is than at any other time in human history. And we are.

Just, not for much longer, IMO.

i agree with this statement.

[PixelPusher]

So we can assume you think the rest of the world is better of than the US, or am i reading you wrong?

Better as in their graph is on an incline, while ours is on a decline - but no, not "better off".

[Blake]

I've been wanting to make for awhile, but I've been hesitant to do so. Mainly because I'm just going to ask a bunch of highly hypothetical questions, have nothing intelligent or insightful to say myself or any column/article to cite. Plus, this is a topic that'll probably unite more people than it divides, which is no fun.

Nevertheless, I'm curious about people's opinions on these matters:

When it comes down to it, how strong is America? If the country and world continue to devolve (and assuming America doesn't divide itself with civil war) in the face of such hardship, how happy should we be, to be Americans? Are we innately better or more equipped for trial than the rest of the world? Are we more decent? More intelligent? Harder working? If we renege on all our foreign debt? Embroil ourselves in global war? If the stock market collapses and becomes non-existent? If we have to kill 3 billion people and literally turn ourselves into 100% for-the-state fascists in order to save ourselves?

Could we do it?

No matter how weak or fucked up we are, at the end of the day, can we count on being stronger than everyone else combined? Could we do it while retaining at least our notions of freedom? Could America take over the world and turn it into OUR police state, if need be? Could we single handedly win another World War? No matter how bad things are, if we inflict enough pain on the rest of the world, could we ensure our own safety if not prosperity? Could China reach the same conclusions?

Thoughts?

If Canada and their military strength and universal health care are on our side, then yes.

If not, then I don't know.

[DarrinS]

The things that make this country exceptional are not generally things held in high regard by the left.

I'll let that stew for a while.

[ChumpDumper]

The things that make this country exceptional are not generally things held in high regard by the left.

I'll let that stew for a while.Yeah, you'll be the last man standing because you watch Fox News.

I'll let that stew for awhile.

[DarkReign]

The things that make this country exceptional are not generally things held in high regard by the left.

I'll let that stew for a while.

DING! Crock pot went off.





Enumerate them, please.

[DarkReign]

When it comes down to it, how strong is America?

By "strong" I will think you meant cohesive in this instance.

Unfortunately, very cohesive. The differences between one person and the next boil down to their positions on moral issues of no national or economic importance.

We have no true socialists or fascists in any national office. Just a big group of sponsored mouthpieces.


If the country and world continue to devolve (and assuming America doesn't divide itself with civil war) in the face of such hardship, how happy should we be, to be Americans?

I am not sure the world is devolving. Parts of the world are like Africa and the Middle East, but other than that, everyone else is totally on the uptick.

I am still happy to be American, but that waxes and wanes. Should others be happy? Sure, why not? They probably identify more with fear and cowardice than I do, therefore they think proudly of the War on Terror, increased security (which will inevitably lead to decreased rights), homogenized thinking and centralized authority.

So, yeah, other Americans besides me should be having a 24 hour fucking party right now. Everyone is going to talk, think and act the same in less than 40 years. For some people, thats awesome! For me, its the last straw.


Are we innately better or more equipped for trial than the rest of the world?

No. Unless you are comparing us to Europe or Japan, we are weak-willed, terrified little pussies compared to everyone else.

Rural Chinese know hardship and pain, the steppe people know loss, Africans are...well, they havent had one government sit longer than 5 years, sometimes not even months.

No.

The US is ripe...extremely ripe for toppling. Either by its people or its government.


Are we more decent?

In comparison to most? Yes. But not all.


More intelligent?

:lmao No.


Harder working?

Yes, in some areas. Americans are quite innovative which leads to being more productive, which means per capita, we are harder working.


If we renege on all our foreign debt?

We could, wont happen. Foreign debt benefits far too many people's agenda.


Embroil ourselves in global war?

What do you think the past 70 years has been?


If the stock market collapses and becomes non-existent?

:lmao Never.


If we have to kill 3 billion people and literally turn ourselves into 100% for-the-state fascists in order to save ourselves?

Only fear could allow fascism...and since I think Americans are spineless ninnies, yeah, fascism is the next step.

But it leads back to my previous point. Fascism will be government instituted, whereas something else entirely would be by the people.


Could we do it?

Anyone can do anything.


No matter how weak or fucked up we are, at the end of the day, can we count on being stronger than everyone else combined?

This will never change, no matter what happens or what this country's name turns into when our debt outweighs our production.


Could we do it while retaining at least our notions of freedom?

Depends on your definition of freedom. 19th century freedom? No fucking chance, its basically gone as is anyway. Even 20th century freedom isnt conducive to this.

So, no.


Could America take over the world and turn it into OUR police state, if need be?

Not without a whoooooole lot of cooperation by a whoooooole lot of other leaders.

So, no. Any "world government" would have to be done under the auspices of shadow and secrecy. Guiding world policy through financial and economic means, not openly and militarily.


Could we single handedly win another World War?

With an enemy who carries a flag? Fucking easy.

Against an irregular opponent? No fucking chance. Again, spineless.


No matter how bad things are, if we inflict enough pain on the rest of the world, could we ensure our own safety if not prosperity?

If this assumes overt action, no fucking chance. "Inflicting pain" will only be reciprocated and in the Era of the Atom, we arent nearly as removed as we'd like to think.


Could China reach the same conclusions?

Not for a looooong time. Their tentacles arent nearly as deep-rooted as ours are in the world stage. They are our intelligent cousin from the extremely poor side of the family. Lots of potential, but no means to reach it without a whoooole lot of scholarships from outside sources.


Thoughts?

We're doomed one way or the other. Whether its total destruction (my least likely scenario by far) or total conversion (my personal fav), the end is nigh for America as you, me and our predecessors knew it.

Either way, its going to be far worse than it ever was. I feel sorry for all your grandchildren.

[EmptyMan]

Our location and history will get us through once we hit Rock Bottom.

If government (alright, and corps) continues to run this country into the ground, retire and live their days in wealth, while the rest of the people have to answer for the fucked up problems they cause....well, I don't think the right people would be too motivated to "save the day". Because at the end of the day, who would want to save the shit that caused the shitstorm.

America will probably break up before "America" is ever overtaken by a foreign enemy. Don't worry though, we can still team up when Persia attacks.

[DarkReign]

:lmao





This!

Is!

America!

http://people.rit.edu/ajl8838/Web%20Dev/images/300.jpg

[balli]

With an enemy who carries a flag? Fucking easy.

Against an irregular opponent? No fucking chance. Again, spineless.

That's part of what got me thinking about these issues. I think we're a long ways off, but if we keep getting bogged down in these shitty little guerrilla wars in the middle east and we keep having Nigerian underwear bombers (try to) blow up planes? And say we had another attack on the scale of 9/11?

At what point, if ever, does America just say 'fuck it' and remove Islam from existence with the push of a button or two?

It's depressing to think about, but if we keep getting our asses handed to us by guerrilla fighters, I think the day will come decades from now, when we put the civilians around them, into our own conventional crosshairs.

[DarkReign]

That's part of what got me thinking about these issues. I think we're a long ways off, but if we keep getting bogged down in these shitty little guerrilla wars in the middle east and we keep having Nigerian underwear bombers (try to) blow up planes? And say we had another attack on the scale of 9/11?

At what point, if ever, does America just say 'fuck it' and remove Islam from existence with the push of a button or two?

The sooner, the better. If this were 18th or 19th century American government with the power gap of current day America, it would already be done.

But terrorism and all that it implies is far too valuable a political chip to just be cast off in the name of safety. Americans need to be reminded as often as possible that they cannot live a normal life without their government warming their sheets before bed.

After monotheism, everything has been downhill. Conditions the Western mind to seek answers from one source and one source only.


It's depressing to think about, but if we keep getting our asses handed to us by guerrilla fighters, I think the day will come decades from now, when we put the civilians around them, into our own conventional crosshairs.

You might as fucking well already. I dont see protests in the streets of Yemen/Afghanistan/Iraq/where-the-fuck-ever that shout down the extremists hijacking their supposedly "peaceful" religion. There are only two reasons for that.

1) Theyre cowards afraid of the existing power structure's ability to inflict harm upon them. Tell that to the Iranians, the Tibetans (?), the African Americans of the 60s, the colonists of early America, the French under Louis 14, etc. Then they are just as guilty at this point because its obvious they have no means to root their own problems out.

2) Theyre complicit or at the very least, sympathetic. More grounds for dismissal.

Again, I dont think either of these matter for us Americans. Terrorism as a threat to us is far to valuable politically. No one in government wants terrorism to go away and if it did (magically), they'd find and trump up another threat in an effort to keep the American coward paralyzed in fear.

Its just too bad the airlines and the Constitution had to/has to be sacrificed for the greater good of social order and dependence.

[baseline bum]

America is strong in the sense that our military is absolutely not to be flexed with when it matters. I do not doubt for a second that we'd slaughter China if we dropped this cold war with them and just sent bombers in. So looking at strength under that definition, America is the strongest nation in the world.

If you look at strength of the citizens, the picture is much grimmer. Workers have less rights in America, organization is practically dead, manufacturing is on life support, temporary work is through the roof, healthcare is a nightmare in this country, everyone is intimidated by threats to take their jobs overseas, universities bleed people who look to improve themselves dry with sky-rocketing tuition and fee increases that severely outpace inflation, etc. The nation is growing a peasant class as the great postwar wealth of it is transferred to the hands of a few. In that respect, America is weak with respect to the rest of the 1st world.

[Winehole23]

Its just too bad the airlines and the Constitution had to/has to be sacrificed for the greater good of social order and dependence.For the SpursTalk diaper brigade, it's a small price to pay for the paternalistic solicitude of an overbearing and intrusive government.

[DarkReign]

For the SpursTalk diaper brigade, it's a small price to pay for the paternalistic solicitude of an overbearing and intrusive government.

..and exactly this is the thrust of my slowly becoming less and less proud to be American.

I always thought and was rasied to believe we Americans are brave and fearless.

Turns out we're just a recipe for Instant Bitch-Sauce:

Ingredients

(19) Islamic Patsies
(2) Hijacked planes
(1) Globally Recognized Building(s)
(1) Prideful Nation

Directions

1. Mix Islamic Patsies into both Hijacked Planes and direct toward Globally Recognized Building until impact. Let stand for 24 hours until Overreactive Response comes to the top of mixture.

2. Apply Overreactive Response to leadership of Prideful Nation and let cook at 450° on 24 Hour News cycle for 1.5 years.

Voila!

[Ignignokt]

Our response to 911 should have been to punish the evil corporations, and regulate wall street. That'll teach Osama!

[DarkReign]

Our response to 911 should have been to punish the evil corporations, and regulate wall street. That'll teach Osama!

You mean Sadaam.

[Ignignokt]

You mean Sadaam.

Our direct response to 911 was Afghanistan. I don't see that as overreacting. We didn't invade iraq till 2003.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Our direct response to 911 was Afghanistan. I don't see that as overreacting. We didn't invade iraq till 2003.

and yet we aren't any safer because of the Iraq war...

[balli]

Our direct response to 911 was Afghanistan. I don't see that as overreacting. We didn't invade iraq till 2003.

The attacks occurred in fall of 2001. During all of 2002 the Bush Administration spent it's time telling us that Saddam had 'some of the most dangerous weapons ever developed' 'a fleet of unmanned aerial drones' and was seeking 'nuclear weapons'.

We attacked in the spring of 2003. Don't get it twisted. It took a little over a year and that year was mostly spent drumming up the case for war in Iraq.

Afghanistan, to Bush, was nothing but a politically expedient side-note.

[admiralsnackbar]

and yet we aren't any safer because of the Iraq war...

Just poorer and further under the thumb of a government we've encouraged to develop anti-terrorist technologies that may well be used on us at a later date should we choose to revolt or should the government take a few steps towards fascism.

[DarkReign]

Afghanistan, to Bush, was nothing but a politically expedient side-note.


Just poorer and further under the thumb of a government we've encouraged to develop anti-terrorist technologies that may well be used on us at a later date should we choose to revolt or should the government take a few steps towards fascism.

I go to answer a few emails and come back to find others have said better what I was going to answer.

Afghanistan was and is a political side note to Bush Jr's ultimate goal of finishing his daddy's war.

Mission Accomplished, indeed. For him and his family's pride, anyway.

[Wild Cobra]

The things that make this country exceptional are not generally things held in high regard by the left.

I'll let that stew for a while.

If that why the left is trying to bank-rupt this nation?

I say that if the left gets their way, there will be no USA in a decade from now. At least not one anyone will recognize. Maybe in name, but not it prosperity or heart.

[Winehole23]

DING! Crock pot went off.





Enumerate them, please.Don't hold your breath. Darrin usually stands pat on his vacuous platitudes.