Lakers under or over-rated as Spurs top WC threat?

[Rummpd]

I have been traveling on the West Coast the last few weeks and saw the LAL in person once and on TV a couple of times. Like the Spurs they really go through stretches of incredible good basketball with ball movement, but on other times (and more often than not) just seem to stand around and wait for Kobe to shoot. When they blew out Dallas they had 6 players with ten or more points and that was also a game when Kobe distributed more. They somewhat get a pass to me as Gasol and Artest have both been injured, but in reality in the NBA all teams face injuries and to me their injuries have exposed the major two weaknesses of the LAL: 1) their depth especially on the front line, and 2) their point guard situation or lack thereof, as Fisher seems to be a step slow and Hill on SAS is far better than any back up they have. Bynum is also an enigma as he seems to lack intensity but in his defense, LAL does simply not get him the ball enough it seems.

More than 1/3 the way through the season I for one am ambivilient whether or not the Lakers are going to be in the end better or worse than last year; and whether or not they will be able to also maintain their substantial lead over other WC teams in the standings as they like the Spurs face a back ended schedule with lots of road games.

I had them pegged for 65-68 wins going into the season but increasingly to me they look more like a 58-60 win team (still good enough for the 1st seed though) and much more vulnerable than expected going into the playoffs. Thoughts?

[ajballer4]

Yeah i was noticing that they always have really close games. I think they are a bit overrated, but, unfortunately, I think they are a little bit better than the Spurs as of right now

[nkdlunch]

Lakers are still > Spurs so far.

Spurs still can't make big comebacks not even vs. weaker teams. On the other hand, Lakers are never out of a game even if losing by 15+

but even then, Lakers are overrated

[silverblackfan]

I have maintained all year that their bench is weak (or weaker than us) and the main guys play a lot of minutes. Now, whether that turns into critical injuries at the wrong time is anyone's guess... Will they be gassed or worn down come PO time? I think everyone is worried about their front court beating our front court, but Bynum is the only advantage there. I think we have a better back court, so it will be a battle, injuries aside.
If Manu is playing his best ball, I think the Spurs back court destroys the Lakers. Even with Kobe doing his thing.

[Chieflion]

They are still the champions, but they are beatable. It is just the Kobe nuthuggers who think the Lakers can't fall. As long as they are healthy, they will still be the top threat for the title in the league.

[jmanu20]

58-60 wins seems like a good projection. I guess Bryant, Gasol, Odom, and Bynum are really that good collectively when you consider LA has a starting point guard that is too slow to guard any of the opposing Western Conference contender point guards, and a less than quality bench.

[elec99]

I don't think they're overrated, they just may not 'bring it' against lesser teams and win by only a small margin or even get beat, such as by the clippers. But come playoff time and with everyone in the game they are still the toughest in the west.

[AFBlue]

Lakers may be overrated, but they're still better than the Spurs right now.

Denver is probably underrated. I think they're also better than the Spurs right now.

[Rummpd]

I personally see the Mavs as a greater potential threat to the Spurs than the Nuggets if the Spurs have to face either on the way out of the West. The Nuggets are very talented but still not a disciplined team and the Mavs psychologically have a potential edge on the Spurs in winning two recent series in playoffs. That being said the new blood of Blair, Jefferson, Dice plus Manu, Parker and Duncan will not be fazed by any opponent, LAL or Mavs included.

[foodie2]

I think they are better than the Spurs but they are only a Kobe injury away from mediocrity, IMHO. Not that I wish it on him, but shit does happen.

[SpurNation]

If the Spurs continue to build chemistry like they've been building over the past month and start winning games against above .500 teams...I think the two would be about even.

But as it stands now...Lakers are definately the better team.

(Did I just say that?) :vomit: on the Lakers.

[Solid D]

Under rated. They are the Spurs' top threat in the West. They have a huge front line. They rebound like no other when Pau is playing and not sitting. They are a top-shelf defensive team, much better than San Antonio in the first third of the season. They have the NBA scoring leader, who also happens to rank 4th in steals/game.

It will be interesting to see how effective the Spurs are using a small lineup against the Lakers. Going small, using RJ at the 4, has been an effective weapon against some teams but Lamar Odom or Ron Artest are pretty quick. The Lakers don't have many weakenesses, except when Kobe controls the ball too much (sometimes, that is not a weakness either). When Bogans gets in foul trouble, the Spurs won't be able to go small and Kobe is going to get his 30 - no doubt.

Kobe really does a nice job defending Manu, so it will also be interesting to see just how healthy and mobile Manu is when this matchup occurs.

LA has several players with high FG% and efficiency ratings. It's a great team and ranks right up there with the great teams the NBA has seen over the decades. Under rated, indeed.

[z0sa]

^ yep :depressed beating LA will be a monumental undertaking, the most monumental of the Spurs title era.. That's why I get a little annoyed when some posters say the #1 obstacle between the Spurs and another title is health - it really isn't. Granted, without health we do nothing, but even with it, the road we face is perilous and very tough.

[Baseline]

I live in LA and see a ton of Laker games - for the sole reason that I love seeing them lose. Like last night against the Clips - their weaknesses were glaring.

Obviously Pau didn't play last night, and he is their most important player, contrary to popular belief.

Their main weaknesses are:
1. Weakness/inconsistency from their bench
2. Fisher is horrible, as is Farmar
3. Bryant shoots too much - people always say that the other guys stand around and wait for Bryant to shoot. Well, there's a reason for that...most of the time Bryant is going to shoot regardless of how much movement there is. Contrary to popular belief, Bryant hasn't "changed" his game. He's still a gunner and volume shooter. If he really were a team guy, the Lakers would easily win 70+ games. Both Gasol and Bynum can practically touch the rim without jumping, so how hard is it to feed these guys? Yet there are multiple games where Bryant shoots 24-25 times or more, and Gasol gets maybe 10-11 shots, and four of those are from offensive rebounds. It's unreal.
4. Bynum gets lost and at times looks disinterested. This is also b/c of Bryant and his lack of getting both Gasol and Bynum proper touches.

All that said, if the Lakers are healthy, it will be tough for the Spurs to beat them - but it can be done. A healthy Celtics team, on the other hand, will handle the Lakers. At the end of the day, the Lakers are still soft. After all, they didn't have to beat a healthy Celtics team to win the title last year.

[Rummpd]

I believe three things have to happen for the Spurs (as composed and LAL as composed) to beat the LAL in a series (As I give LAL for all their presumed faults a lot of respect - that is a d*&^ good team):

1) Either Parker or Manu have to come up absolutely huge in the past- Parker in particular starts on fire too many games, then cools down, and for the Spurs to have any chance at all he needs to play the entire series near or at the level of his MVP finals. LAL gave up Ariza the best Parker stopper to get Artest (who will help shut down Manu) but Artest is simply not quick enough to stop Parker.
2) Two "real" bigs must be on the floor at all times and at least 40 minutes needs to be a combination of Duncan/Blair/Dice and no one else with Duncan going at it 35 minutes min per series.
3) Gasol and/or Bryant have to have an off series relatively speaking, and the more games Bryant is the shooter of 30 shots or more the better the Spurs chances are.

Finally a healthy LAL team will be very hard to beat but with there so far terrible bench if they are missing Gasol, Odom or Bynum - Spurs chances really go up. Kobe will play with anything so not ever going to count him out.

[timvp]

Under rated. They are the Spurs' top threat in the West. They have a huge front line. They rebound like no other when Pau is playing and not sitting. They are a top-shelf defensive team, much better than San Antonio in the first third of the season. They have the NBA scoring leader, who also happens to rank 4th in steals/game.

It will be interesting to see how effective the Spurs are using a small lineup against the Lakers. Going small, using RJ at the 4, has been an effective weapon against some teams but Lamar Odom or Ron Artest are pretty quick. The Lakers don't have many weakenesses, except when Kobe controls the ball too much (sometimes, that is not a weakness either). When Bogans gets in foul trouble, the Spurs won't be able to go small and Kobe is going to get his 30 - no doubt.

Kobe really does a nice job defending Manu, so it will also be interesting to see just how healthy and mobile Manu is when this matchup occurs.

LA has several players with high FG% and efficiency ratings. It's a great team and ranks right up there with the great teams the NBA has seen over the decades. Under rated, indeed.

Gotta agree. The Lakers are very, very good. They are stacked in just about every area imaginable -- talent, size, length, speed, experience, etc. On top of that, they have the best coach I've ever seen in any sport. Gasol and Bynum inside to go along with a prime Kobe, a sane Artest and a versatile Odom? It's scary.

The Spurs will need to be playing at about 100% of their potential to have a chance. It's theoretically doable but beating Gasol and the Lakers is a very tall order.

As for Manu, I'm more worried about what Artest can do against him rather than Kobe. He's had some moments in his career where he's made Manu a non-factor. And let's not forget the revenge Manu owes Vujacic . . .

[washingtonwizard]

I fear a Gasol lead Lakers

I do not fear a Kobe lead Lakers

[murpjf88]

The Lakers are certainly not overrated. They occasionally play down to the level of their competition. Their bench is what causes problems for L.A. LO is about the only weapon they have. The Lakers are very vulnerable when a player goes down with an injury. Over the last couple of weeks, Artest went down, and the Lakers seemed to struggle. The bottom line is the Lakers are still the best team in the west, and the spurs are still miles behind.

[IronMexican]

I have been traveling on the West Coast the last few weeks and saw the LAL in person once and on TV a couple of times. Like the Spurs they really go through stretches of incredible good basketball with ball movement

Guess I've missed San Antonio play like that. From what I've seen, they are an average to above average team this season.

[IronMexican]

But yeah, the Lakers are overrated to an extent, cause once the bench comes in, you never really know what can happen. And usually they blow leads.

[024]

spurs are in no way even close to touching the lakers. for the spurs to match up with the lakers, they need to return to the top defense of the league. it's hard to do when the lakers are at the top. the only flaw i can see is their bench but it will be a non factor in the playoffs when the rotations are shortened. a brown + odom + farmar bench will be sufficient for the lakers to cruise.

only weakness i can see worth exploiting is lakers' size. every team is awed by the lakers' giant frontline and small forwards but guess who beat the lakers last night: a 6'7" power forward named craig smith and some well timed 3 pt shooting in the fourth quarter. quickness and agility counters size and length. spurs fans are constantly hounding about finding a 7 footer but one doesn't fight fire with fire. one fights fire with water. blair's development and minutes will be critical against the lakers. and of course, parker and ginobili will have to play at full capacity to burn the laker guards.

[eyeh8u]

Guess I've missed San Antonio play like that. From what I've seen, they are an average to above average team this season.


how many spurs game have you actually seen?

the la market gets almost nothing but the late chick hern's sidekick Stu Lance, or that guy that says BINNNGOOOOOOOO

[IronMexican]

how many spurs game have you actually seen?

the la market gets almost nothing but the late chick hern's sidekick Stu Lance, or that guy that says BINNNGOOOOOOOO

I'll watch them on streams from time to time. I watch when they are on TNT or bits and pieces of streams. Last game I saw was vs Portland.

[Obstructed_View]

I think the Lakers are bored. They're going to go through slow stretches, and Kobe's gonna go through some ballhogging phases, especially as everyone else gets into a habit of watching him. If they're healthy and focused in the playoffs, it's going to take everything the Spurs have to stand a chance against them, and I'm only saying that because I don't want to believe that the Spurs have no chance and start hoping for some LA misfortune to level the playing field.

[blkroadrunners]

I'm curious to see how Kobe Bryant performs come playoff time and close to it. He's a little older now and w/ about 30 games already passed into the season, he's already averaging close to 39 minutes and putting up 23 shots per game w/ a bad finger. Granted, the Lakers have been suffering through injuries lately, but I wonder if Phil Jackson will still allow him to play all these minutes, or if he's gonna allocate more to Shannon Brown.

Still though, they're the team to beat in the NBA.

[greyforest]

lakers have good ref bias, and not just at home. dont overlook these "intangibles"

[pjjrfan]

The lakers have a strong front line with Gasol, Bynum and Odom. They have Bryant and they have Phil. The bench does seem to be a weakness but the team's length is legit and with a money player like Bryant, and a savvy coach they will be hard to beat. The Spurs will have to be smart, physical and on top of thier game. I still believe that Manu, tony and Duncan along with Pop can beat any combination or any team if all of them are healthy and on top of their game.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Lakers are definitely overrated when people compare them to historic teams IMO, but they're still a level above every team in the West by a good margin..we don't have the tools to beat them IMO, particularly in the frontcourt..this next game should be a good test, since the Lakers always being their A game vs. the Spurs..it should be a good indication of our team needs..

Some glaring weaknesses for the Lakers..

-They have very poor spacing due to their poor shooting on the outside..
-Their bench is very weak..
-Fisher is the Michael Finley of their team..

Thankfully we can exploit all 3 of those weaknesses..when Parker is on his game, he should torch any of the Laker PGs..hopefully Tony will be fresh by then..the 3-point shooting is obviously something that COULD be huge to this team, since we can beat anybody when the 3s are falling..their short rotation will help in the playoffs, but their starters have been putting in A LOT of work and energy so far this season, and having depth always helps in the long run, which is something the Spurs have..

Sadly, the Lakers have 2 huge strengths over the Spurs, which is the main reason they would easily beat us in a 7-game series at this point..

-There's the issue of guarding Kobe..TBH, I'm not THAT worried about this..Kobe always kills the Spurs, even when Bowen was here..it's going to be even tougher now, but I don't think that's going to be the main key..obviously it's a huge strength in their favor though..

-The frontcourt is their huge advantage..Duncan will have to outplay his counterpart, which he will do if he's healthy IMO..our 2nd and 3rd bigs are at a HUGE disadvantage though, which is the main reason we'll have trouble with the Lakers..

McDyess and Blair guarding Bynum?..those guys staying with Odom on the boards?..Odom doesn't worry me at all as an offensive threat, but the guy is a very good rebounder and defensive player with very good energy to spark a team..

Bynum is very skilled and has a huge size advantage over any of our non-Duncan bigs..a HUGE size advantage..

I agree with 024 that Blair can be useful with his quickness, but he's going to pick up fouls very quickly..we desperately need another legit big man to battle them..a legit defensive stopper on the perimeter would be nice too, but I don't want to get too greedy..

So I'd say we need(ignoring health, obviously)..

-Parker playing the way he did last year..
-Manu, Bogans and RJ to make Kobe work on the defensive end..
-Duncan to not wear down by that time..
-A legit big man next to Duncan..
-NEED to make 3s at a high rate, especially Bogans, that's our best chance..
-Consistent bench play..

[ElNono]

^^^^ I would add that Manu has been historically fairly inefficient when guarded by Artest. He has struggled at times when Ron Ron is guarding him. Obviously, Ron Ron is not what he used to be either, especially on lateral movement, but we'll see how those two respond to the challenge.

I also would like to see Theo on Bynum for stretches. Just get an idea if we have something there.

[HarlemHeat37]

Ratliff BETTER play good minutes vs. the Lakers in the next game..we have to see what he's capable of against them..if he can hold his own defensively, I'll feel a little better..if not, at least we'll know that we need a trade..

[td4mvp21]

We won't beat the Lakers in the playoffs. Maybe in regular season games, but not in a 7 game series.

[z0sa]

We won't beat the Lakers in the playoffs. Maybe in regular season games, but not in a 7 game series.

Hey!! We're raising the bar here. At least state why we we're gonna lose.

[td4mvp21]

Hey!! We're raising the bar here. At least state why we we're gonna lose.

Yeah, the whole raising the bar thing is going to conflict with my laziness.

We do not match up well with the Lakers. Parker is really the only advantage we have, and PJ usually does a good job of neutralizing that advantage. Gasol and Bynum should have little to no trouble controlling the paint on offense and defense. We have no one to guard Kobe - Bogans is going to get torched, and Hill does not have enough experience under his belt. We also have no one to guard Artest or Odom. Overall, the matchups favor the Lakers way too much.

[mavsfan1000]

I think they are right where they belong as WC threats. They are supposed to win and they likely are.

[blkroadrunners]

Ratliff should have a bigger role when Gasol comes back, but w/ him sideline possibly, Pop may just play more Duncan/Blair or RJ, or Dice at the C this upcoming game. These are times the Spurs could really use Bonner though, since he can (somewhat) keep up w/ Odom and rebounding, along w/ spreading the floor.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm curious to see how Kobe Bryant performs come playoff time and close to it.

Kobe's going through his "Hero" stretch where he takes too many shots and hits enough of them at the end of games for Laker nation to call him the best finisher in the league©. Come playoff time he'll more than likely dial it back so his teammates can carry him to a championship.

[TD 21]

Under rated. They are the Spurs' top threat in the West. They have a huge front line. They rebound like no other when Pau is playing and not sitting. They are a top-shelf defensive team, much better than San Antonio in the first third of the season. They have the NBA scoring leader, who also happens to rank 4th in steals/game.

It will be interesting to see how effective the Spurs are using a small lineup against the Lakers. Going small, using RJ at the 4, has been an effective weapon against some teams but Lamar Odom or Ron Artest are pretty quick. The Lakers don't have many weakenesses, except when Kobe controls the ball too much (sometimes, that is not a weakness either). When Bogans gets in foul trouble, the Spurs won't be able to go small and Kobe is going to get his 30 - no doubt.

Kobe really does a nice job defending Manu, so it will also be interesting to see just how healthy and mobile Manu is when this matchup occurs.

LA has several players with high FG% and efficiency ratings. It's a great team and ranks right up there with the great teams the NBA has seen over the decades. Under rated, indeed.

How can anyone say that the Lakers are underrated when they get far and away the most publicity in the league and have the media slobbering over them relentlessly? Maybe you don't think they're overrated, but underrated? I don't see a case to be made.

Depends on how you quantify what a good rebounding team is; is it total rebounds or is it rebound differential? If it's the former, then the Lakers are a better rebounding team than the Spurs; if it's the latter, then it's the Spurs. The Lakers actually have more weaknesses than they're often recognized for having and that's mainly because their strengths often cover up those weaknesses, but nonetheless, they have plenty. Lack of front line depth, lack of a bench, lack of a starting quality point guard, lack of shot creators on the perimeter and less than stellar outside shooting. Here's the Lakers misnomer about the Lakers: they're a middle-of-the-road offensive team. Basically, if Bryant isn't going nuts offensively or they're not absolutely dominating in the post, they don't have a consistent attack.

That being said, only two teams have the savvy, intelligence, experience and talent to potentially exploit these weaknesses: Celtics and Spurs. Both have aging cores and in the Celtics case they're not particularly deep, so just getting to a playoff series with the Lakers in one piece will be a significant challenge. But should either do so, then they're both capable of taking this overrated team down.

Here's what's encouraging as a Spurs fan: Gasol's having persistent hamstring issues and admittedly being worn out from playing a lot the past few years and the load Bryant is carrying. Close to 39 mpg and whether he has to or not, carrying the offense for long stretches. Plus, he's got a lot of supposed injuries and I get the feeling that at some point, this all catches up to him. He's already got a ton of mileage on his body to begin with.

[Spursfan 87]

IMO the key to beating the lakers is stopping their supporting cast (Odom, Artest, Fisher). The lakers are not that good when Kobe shoots too much and puts up big numbers, but lakers are great when kobe is managing the game, passing the ball and making everybody better.

[iggypop123]

the key is first of all health. if the lakers have it i am comfident against anybody, however in terms of basketball its about the 3. if the spurs go nuts and the lakers stink it up from 3 it can block out the points in the paint advantage the lakers should have should the spurs be stupid enough to play dice on bynum or pau

[ElNono]

The Lakers are a very good team, and deserve a lot of respect. They're the defending champs, and that means they're the favorites. That said, they don't look unbeatable so far, they've had to deal with some injury concerns of their own, and there's still plenty of basketball to be played.
I think that if we're healthy and improve our defense a notch or two, we can compete with the best of them.