Measuring Stick Game(s) Ahead

[VBM]

The team is on a pretty good run right now, but no one will disagree that the run has come against some lesser competition.

Looking ahead, we play Dallas on Friday (with a day off today), and then the Lakers next Tuesday (with a day off before that). Both games will be at home. We're completely healthy. The players have also had two months to settle into the system somewhat.

Can we look at these games as true measuring stick games? Or is it still too early to get a grasp as to how we measure up to the upper-echelon teams in the West?

http://www.noble.org/AG/Soils/BermudaNitrogenRate/measuring_stick.jpg

[Chieflion]

I guess it is about time. Let the beat LA chants begin.

[Leetonidas]

We're completely healthy? Finley and Bonner are out, and TP is obviously not 100% yet. While those aren't HUGE issues, I'm just pointing out that we're not completely healthy. Mostly healthy, though.

[timvp]

It's legit to say those two games will be a measuring stick. There literally wasn't a test in the last ten ballgames. Games against the Mavs and the Lakers -- the two teams who give the Spurs the most trouble -- will tell us a lot.

The Spurs look to be playing well but there will be a lot more evidence one way or the other after the Lakers game.

[CubanMustGo]

We're completely healthy? Finley and Bonner are out, and TP is obviously not 100% yet. While those aren't HUGE issues, I'm just pointing out that we're not completely healthy. Mostly healthy, though.

There are those (including me) who would argue the Spurs are more effective with Finley and Bonner in street clothes. I think solid showings against LA/Dallas are important if the Spurs want to leap from pretender to contender status.

[VBM]

Bah...I knew that completely healthy statement would get me in trouble...forgot about Bonner/Fin-dawg. I guess I really meant that our big guns were healthy. Either way, I was basically trying to eliminate any excuses for losing to these guys (if Matt Bonner is the key to beating LA, well...)

[K-State Spur]

If we can get 3 of the next 4, I'd be ecstatic. 2 wouldn't destroy me. Anything less would mean that any of the signs that this team is starting to 'get it' are just fool's gold at this point.

[Leetonidas]

Finley, maybe. But Bonner? Come on. A lot of people hated on Bonner for a long time but this season, off the bench, the dude has been killer. He's a fucking sharpshooter, he hustles his ass off, grabs key rebounds/makes key tap outs, hits his free throws, and he's even playing better defense. On the 2nd unit, he is very valuable because he is better than a lot of other teams' bench big men. As a stater, yeah he kinda sucks. But as a bench player, he's very valuable.

But I don't care how on fire Matt Bonner is, you do not draw up a play for him throwing up a hook shot at the buzzer to win a game.

[Mel_13]

Can we look at these games as true measuring stick games? Or is it still too early to get a grasp as to how we measure up to the upper-echelon teams in the West?

The December games against Boston and Denver were too early to use as a measuring stick, but the thirteen games from now until the beginning of the RRT will tell us much more.

The home games against New Jersey and Chicago are the only two "easy" games in that stretch. The Spurs have home games against Dallas, LA, Utah, Houston, Atlanta, Memphis and Denver and road games against OKC, Charlotte (12-4 at home), Memphis (10-5 at home), and New Orleans (13-3 at home).

After the six game homestand to end the month, the Spurs will play 24 of their final 36 games on the road. Anything more than 8 wins over these next thirteen games would be a good sign. Seven or less wins probably means that the Spurs will not get a top-4 slot in the West.

[Dice]

I'm really interested to see how our bigs preform against L.A.'s bigs. That will say a lot to me about our chances in the playoffs.

[cd98]

Gasol is injured. If he doesn't play vs. S.A., then we won't know how we truly match up.

[Spursmania]

In the post game report they were interviewing Roger Mason, and they asked him if the Spurs were prepared for Dallas? He said, "Oh yeah, I'm still pissed about that game, etc..."

The Spurs still remember the overtime loss against the Mavs apparently, so they should be ready for them.
I hope Carlisle keeps playing smurf instead of Beaubois.

And, yes the next games are definite measuring sticks for the Spurs.

[VBM]

The home games against New Jersey and Chicago are the only two "easy" games in that stretch. The Spurs have home games against Dallas, LA, Utah, Houston, Atlanta, Memphis and Denver and road games against OKC, Charlotte (12-4 at home), Memphis (10-5 at home), and New Orleans (13-3 at home).



The two bolded games are the second night of back2backs, so those two should already be on the radar as potential roadblocks.

[Dex]

It's an early measuring stick, to be sure. Even though the Spurs have risen in the standings and managed to right the ship a bit (with the league taking notice), it's all come against the cookie cutter teams of the league.

Yes, those are the games you have to win to be among the top, but if San Antonio loses to both Dallas and Los Angeles at home, people will continue to doubt, Spurs players and fans included.

[pookenstein]

Finley, maybe. But Bonner? Come on. A lot of people hated on Bonner for a long time but this season, off the bench, the dude has been killer. He's a fucking sharpshooter, he hustles his ass off, grabs key rebounds/makes key tap outs, hits his free throws, and he's even playing better defense. On the 2nd unit, he is very valuable because he is better than a lot of other teams' bench big men. As a starter, yeah he kinda sucks. But as a bench player, he's very valuable.

+1. imo he is playing a damn good season so far. no starter material, but plays his role nicely so far. even takes it to the rim from time to time. (that dunk against the raps makes me still shake my head in disbelief everytime i see it)

as for the upcoming 4 games i'm expecting wins against the mavs and nets, a good chance to beat the fakers and a loss in oklahoma.

[hommeaetage]

It's an early measuring stick, to be sure. Even though the Spurs have risen in the standings and managed to right the ship a bit (with the league taking notice), it's all come against the cookie cutter teams of the league.

Yes, those are the games you have to win to be among the top, but if San Antonio loses to both Dallas and Los Angeles at home, people will continue to doubt, Spurs players and fans included.

On the other hand we win those games, the national media will spend a week kissing our butts.

[ElNono]

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http://z.about.com/d/weirdnews/1/0/Y/B/-/-/Condometric_packaging_500.jpg

[Spursmania]

El Nono:lol

[VBM]

http://z.about.com/d/weirdnews/1/0/Y/B/-/-/Condometric_packaging_500.jpg

:lol

[ffadicted]

http://z.about.com/d/weirdnews/1/0/Y/B/-/-/Condometric_packaging_500.jpg

lol wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut :lol:lol

Back on subject, I think it's an absolute must that the spurs go 3 - 0 against the Mavs, Nets, and Lakers, and make a statement to the league. Losing to the Lakers or Mavs at home just can't happen right now, much less to the New Jersey "Shore" Nets

[SpurNation]

I don't know about measuring stick for the entire season but I think it will be a tell sign of how the team is able to respond to playing at a higher, efficient level for the rest of the season.

Winning these games will obviously give confidence. Losing them will exploit what decisions might have to be made to have a chance in the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

It really will be a huge test in both games, especially against the Lakers..the big man situation will be interesting, so we'll see if we'll need another big or not after that game IMO..

[alchemist]

Absolutely no excuses, they play both teams in which Dallas/Lakers/Spurs have a day off between the games. Spurs are relaitvely healthy, we would love to have Bonner's shooting but that is a bonus.

:flag:

[Agloco]

The team is on a pretty good run right now, but no one will disagree that the run has come against some lesser competition.

Looking ahead, we play Dallas on Friday (with a day off today), and then the Lakers next Tuesday (with a day off before that). Both games will be at home. We're completely healthy. The players have also had two months to settle into the system somewhat.

Can we look at these games as true measuring stick games? Or is it still too early to get a grasp as to how we measure up to the upper-echelon teams in the West?

http://www.noble.org/AG/Soils/BermudaNitrogenRate/measuring_stick.jpg

As long as we don't start the game looking like your picture, we should be ok......

[lurker23]

These games will definitely be big measuring sticks, and not just whether they win or lose them. We're getting pretty close to the period of time when teams are defined, for better or for worse. How the Spurs play against potential playoff foes down the stretch will tell us a lot about the character and make-up of this team. I'll personally be looking for simple, fundamental things, such as ball movement, team defense, and pride.

Even though wins and losses are all that matter for playoff seeding, I think I'd rather see the Spurs lose with solid fundamentals (with excuses after the game being, "We'd have won if RJ were better integrated" or "Gasol beat Blair on a few too many cases, but perhaps Ratliff will get 5-10 more minutes in the playoffs."), than to win and have bad fundamentals ("The team looked really sloppy, and got lucky that the Lakers had an off night" or "The Spurs allowed Jason Terry get to the rim at will, thankfully they were able to outgun them on the other end.").


P.S.- No matter how they do against the Lakers, don't be a surprised if they lose at the Thunder the next night (with or without Pop's help with benching veterans). If this happens, please keep the meltdown to a minimum.

[HarlemHeat37]

Well we could easily lose to the Thunder either way, they've had our number..although I would still expect the meltdown threads..

[disciple]

A measuring stick? Yes!

The positive about this measuring stick regardless of the result is that there is still time to gell.

The measuring sticks that come in March have more finality to them.

[spurspokesman]

It's legit to say those two games will be a measuring stick. There literally wasn't a test in the last ten ballgames. Games against the Mavs and the Lakers -- the two teams who give the Spurs the most trouble -- will tell us a lot.

The Spurs look to be playing well but there will be a lot more evidence one way or the other after the Lakers game.

Exactly. I got nothing from none of the last 10. Miami is the lone exception in the way we beat them. The jury is still out.

[hater]

we will lose both games unfortunately

[spurspokesman]

we will lose both games unfortunately

This spurs team is still fools gold to me. But being that I see a chemistry developing I will hold my judgement. But all in all the lakers are gonna be a tall task for us.

[ForeignFan]

I am not very optimistic for the Dallas and Lakers games. Apart from the Miami game, I have not seen many reasons to consider the Spurs have reached a contender level

[hater]

This spurs team is still fools gold to me. But being that I see a chemistry developing I will hold my judgement. But all in all the lakers are gonna be a tall task for us.

well if Gasol does not play we probably win that game. But it's meaningless

[bobby4germany]

well if Gasol does not play we probably win that game. But it's meaningless

So I guess last years series with the Mavs was meaningless because we didn’t have Manu? Or maybe Alabama should replay Texas because McCoy got hurt last night which makes that game meaningless?

Injuries happen with every team, it’s just the way it goes. Sometimes we catch a break and when we do we have to take advantage of it. It doesn’t make the game meaningless it just makes it a bit easier and I’ll take that any day!

[Old School 44]

Definitely a measuring stick. I'd be happy with a split, if the loss is close ballgame.
We can take both, if we limit turnovers and shoot a good percentage at the line.

[hater]

So I guess last years series with the Mavs was meaningless because we didn’t have Manu?

Bingo


BTW, I meant meaningless as a real "measuring stick" game

[bobby4germany]

Bingo


BTW, I meant meaningless as a real "measuring stick" game


Ok point taken with the whole "measuring stick" part but come on you can't say the Mav's series was meaningless just because of no Manu, you have to fight through injuries not just lay down and die!

[benefactor]

Even though wins and losses are all that matter for playoff seeding, I think I'd rather see the Spurs lose with solid fundamentals (with excuses after the game being, "We'd have won if RJ were better integrated" or "Gasol beat Blair on a few too many cases, but perhaps Ratliff will get 5-10 more minutes in the playoffs."), than to win and have bad fundamentals ("The team looked really sloppy, and got lucky that the Lakers had an off night" or "The Spurs allowed Jason Terry get to the rim at will, thankfully they were able to outgun them on the other end.").

Excellent points. As far as measuring sticks go, these games are more about how they play the game and less about the W. If they play good, disciplined basketball and lose the game on a few tough breaks then there is far less to worry about...because if they still match up well then winning a playoff series against either team becomes much easier to envision.

That said, a win would be nice too. :)

[VBM]

Actually took in Daybreakers instead of keeping track of the game (wasn't televised in Houston). Reading the recaps...I thought Daybreakers was bad...yeesh

[lurker23]

Excellent points. As far as measuring sticks go, these games are more about how they play the game and less about the W. If they play good, disciplined basketball and lose the game on a few tough breaks then there is far less to worry about...because if they still match up well then winning a playoff series against either team becomes much easier to envision.

That said, a win would be nice too. :)

So how do you feel this game played out?

Personally, I think I'm happy with about 85% of the Spurs game against the Mavs. Defense was solid for most of the game and RJ is looking more comfortable. That said, they need to figure out what their big man rotation is and who is going to be dependable. Also, they badly need to figure out how play 48 minutes. These aren't exactly small problems, but I think they're problems that are legitimately fixable.

[ElNono]

So how do you feel this game played out?

Personally, I think I'm happy with about 85% of the Spurs game against the Mavs. Defense was solid for most of the game and RJ is looking more comfortable. That said, they need to figure out what their big man rotation is and who is going to be dependable. Also, they badly need to figure out how play 48 minutes. These aren't exactly small problems, but I think they're problems that are legitimately fixable.

Really? I was only happy with the intensity and defense on the 3rd quarter. It's hard to feel good about the first half, when we shot almost 20% more than them and only ended up with a 3 point lead. I don't think I need to say anything about the 4th...

[Chieflion]

I feel ok about the game, just that I don't like all the shitty comments by Mavs fans. Guess I am butthurt about it. Who knows. The Spurs show that they are one of the best offensive teams in the league but on defense, they can't stop the Mavs in the 4th and execution without Pop is terrible. There is no way Bud was on the phone with Pop all the time to discuss what to do. This team looked lost in a close game in the 4th and the Spurs failed to play good defense and execute in the 4th. This caused the Spurs the game and I think it is going to bite the Spurs in the ass at the end of the season.

The thing I would like to comment on is killer instinct. The Spurs had put a stranglehold on the game with a 13 point lead. At that point, the Spurs teams in the past would put the game away with tough defense. Unfortunately, our bigs not named Duncan were not capable enough to finish the opponent off by rebounding the ball and defend Dirk, losing the game in the 4th.

[benefactor]

So how do you feel this game played out?

Personally, I think I'm happy with about 85% of the Spurs game against the Mavs. Defense was solid for most of the game and RJ is looking more comfortable. That said, they need to figure out what their big man rotation is and who is going to be dependable. Also, they badly need to figure out how play 48 minutes. These aren't exactly small problems, but I think they're problems that are legitimately fixable.
Matchup-wise, I think they are in a lot better shape than they have been in the past against the Mavs. As you said, 48 minutes of consistent basketball would cure a lot of things. I know a lot of people are trashing Dice right now, but I expect he will raise his level of play as they get closer to the playoffs. In one of the previous games with the Mavs, he showed that he can defend Dirk effectively. Couple that with what RJ showed against Dirk last night and they should have a good shot at containing Dirk in a playoff series.

One thing is for sure...the Spurs HAVE to rebound better and stop allowing so many offensive boards in order to beat the Mavs. The Spurs have allow 40 offensive boards in the three games played against Dallas. That is completely unacceptable. People can laugh if they want, but 15-20 minutes of Matt Bonner last night would have been helpful. He played very well in the first two games versus the Mavs and he could have provided valuable minutes of rest for Manu.

All in all I think there are more positives than negatives and I agree that most of the issues are fixable. I'm still on the fence as far as making another move to shore up the front line. The x-factor in this is Blair's ability to contribute against the better teams in the West. If this is still a question as the team approaches the end of this month then a trade may be necessary to keep us in the conversation with the contenders.

[VBM]

At that point, the Spurs teams in the past would put the game away with tough defense.

I actually thought the Spurs teams in the past had the same issue with holding onto big leads...they would just end up winning in the end.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs have always been known to give up huge leads, but they've always gotten the stops when we needed them..big difference now..

[ElNono]

Matchup-wise, I think they are in a lot better shape than they have been in the past against the Mavs. As you said, 48 minutes of consistent basketball would cure a lot of things. I know a lot of people are trashing Dice right now, but I expect he will raise his level of play as they get closer to the playoffs. In one of the previous games with the Mavs, he showed that he can defend Dirk effectively. Couple that with what RJ showed against Dirk last night and they should have a good shot at containing Dirk in a playoff series.

You know, I don't expect stuff like that anymore. That sounds like they can flip a switch whenever they want, and I would say more times than not it doesn't work like that at all. Somebody else brought Tony's jumper who also 'expected' it would improve by the time the playoffs come around. Or the overall defense.

Spurs started with this coasting thing and flip a switch mentality since the Horry days. Pop used to have a place in the doghouse for those players that didn't bring it every night. I can understand giving Antonio some leeway time, considering he's new, but we're almost half a season in, and he just looks as disinterested as you can possibly be. He was brought in to help Tim in the paint and he's being doing absolutely nothing of that sort. How long you wait? Is it merely a 'switch' situation?

[benefactor]

I don't think "disinterested" is the right term. I don't see Dice as the type of player that deliberately plays with a lack of interest, especially when this is his last chance contract-wise at getting a ring. I don't think it's a coasting/switch thing either.

TBQH, I'm not sure what it is...I just know that he is capable of better play. It's not a physical thing, as he is still moving and running the floor well. He just doesn't seem to be dialed in mentally. Hopefully he will get that way as we move through this month and into the next.

[rascal]

So how do you feel this game played out?

Personally, I think I'm happy with about 85% of the Spurs game against the Mavs. Defense was solid for most of the game and RJ is looking more comfortable. That said, they need to figure out what their big man rotation is and who is going to be dependable. Also, they badly need to figure out how play 48 minutes. These aren't exactly small problems, but I think they're problems that are legitimately fixable.

How do you figure the big situation on who will be dependable is fixable? Its become obvious the spurs don't have the talent on the frontline on the roster.