Dustup Between TP and Pop, Who Do You Side With?

[timvp]

It's rare to see Tony Parker and Pop yelling at each other but that took place early in the second quarter against the Pistons. Here was the scenario: Parker didn't close all the way out on Rodney Stuckey when Stuckey was in the corner behind the three-point line. Instead, Parker closed out to within about five feet to protect against the drive. Stuckey proceeded to rise up and knock down the three-pointer after a slight hesitation.

Pop, as is usually the case when an opposing player gets an open three-pointer, wasn't too happy. On the next stoppage, he yelled at Parker for not closing out. He then took Parker out of the game and the two exchanged more heated words. Why was Parker angry? He felt he was following the scouting report. Coming into the game, Stuckey was 14.7% on three-pointers. Even worse than that, he had missed his last ten from downtown and was just one for his last 19.

So angry was Pop that he kept George Hill on the floor even though Hill picked up his fourth foul midway through the second period. Parker eventually returned right before halftime and there were no more further issues. After the game was over, Pop made a point to praise Parker's defensive play in the fourth quarter (http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/100106_pop.html) -- even specifically mentioning Parker good close-out on a three-point shooter.

With the evidence at hand, who do you side with? Parker for playing the percentages and giving up the open look to a shooter in an extreme slump or Pop for ignoring the percentages and wanting Parker to close-out more aggressively?


(Gotta love the boring Spurs. This is their version of the Arenas gunplay.)

[urunobili]

Sean backed up Tony during the broadcast saying something like "You can't blame him Stuckey is shooting almost 10% from three coming into this game"..

Having said that... you just don't leave him open... Help defense should be there if he passes by TP...

[DPG21920]

They were both right. There is a difference between following the scouting report (like TP did) and being lazy. TP should have got out there a little closer, but Stuckey's shot still looked difficult. TP was right not to charge out there with reckless abandon, and with the help defense being kind of shaky along with Stuckey's ability to draw fouls, I don't blame TP or Pop.

[Obstructed_View]

Wasn't Stuckey the one the Mavs left wide open the night before to shoot a potential game-tying three? Everybody but Pop seems to know the guy can't shoot.

After the mistakes with Parker and the mistakes in rotations, I'm wondering if this is the year the Spurs players start to actually acknowledge that the emperor has no clothes.

[kace]

well, i remember Pop having words with manu, that was fun. Manu yelled back at Pop who benched him immediatly. not abig deal, no risk of doghouse obviously.

as for the play, was that clearly intentional from TP or was it a lazy play ? are we sure of what Pop was asking him in defense ? was interior help defense ready ?

i would like to replay the play and the "discussion" between the two, just for fun.

[DPG21920]

It was a corner 3 pointer and Stuckey did not even look on balance.

[Dice]

I had misunderstood them to have been yelling about a couple of offensive sets that didn't go the way Pop wanted. I thought I saw Pop call tony over after a foul call on our end and tony was gesturing at our basket and arguing with him. I thought he pulled him after the next play.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I'm with Pop on this one.

[Solid D]

timvp, good question but I'm fairly sure you know the answer.

Whether Tony agrees with Pop's scheme or not, it's written in stone in the "Book of Pop" that the easiest shot for an offensive player to take from the perimeter is in the corner. Pop has Rule 1. Do not leave the corner shooter open. Sean and Tony both know that if you want to get pulled out of the game, you leave a corner shooter open...regardless of who it is. You contest those shots and you are obeying Pop. You don't contest those shots, even one shot, you are temporarily but officially on Pop's list.

In Pop's defensive scheme, Parker was wrong. My reaction when first witnessing that play was, "that's a very tentative, if not lazy close-out by TP there."

[Rob in Converse]

Sean backed up Tony during the broadcast saying something like "You can't blame him Stuckey is shooting almost 10% from three coming into this game"..

Having said that... you just don't leave him open... Help defense should be there if he passes by TP...

I'm with Pop on this one, more for the future than for Stuckey. If the Spurs are ever going to get anywhere near their days of stifling defense, everyone has to play the role the situation dictates. They have to close out on ALL 3-point shooters and not make a habit of over-thinking the situation. Each guy has to expect their help will bail them out if the guy gets past him. And if that doesn't happen, Pop screams at someone else, not Tony. Tony shouldn't have to think "This is Barbosa - close out" or "This is Stuckey - wait on the drive".

[Parker2112]

It doesn't matter really, more important is that Pop has made it clear that he won't accept anything less than Parker playing some Spurs D. From the facts given here, sounds like Pop jumped the gun. But I'm sure everyone else on the squad has gotten a dose of the same at times...nothing wrong with Parker joining the club:toast

I say, if Pop says Tony will play D or ride the bench, I say we now have a real shot at the:lobt2:this year! Tony's scoring may go down, and he may still have his best year ever!

:flag:

[Baseline]

I blame Popovich for playing mind games with players - Period. Especially veteran players. There's no excuse for embarrassing players by benching them for extended periods. Parker deserves better than that.

I can't stand coaches like that. I've played for guys like that, and it creates at atmosphere of fear, rather than an atmosphere of confidence. It's the whole negative motivation technique. This is precisely why RJ is having problems, and probably Dice as well. I know Pop has had a lot of success, but I can't give him all the credit for four rings. Tim Duncan deserves the credit way before Pop.

Brent Barry has spoken about the difference between playing "tight" and playing "loose" - specifically he mentioned Rick Adelman and how this year's Houston team is playing well despite a serious talent gap because they are allowed to play loose. They are really playing above their talent level because Adelman has given them that freedom and confidence in each other.

If this Spurs team played above their talent level, we would definitely win the title. But unfortunately Pop and his ridiculous control freak game-playing will never allow a team to play loose. Guys will always be afraid of getting yanked.

[DAF86]

I always rather give up a three point attempt than a lay-up or high % shot, specially if the shooter averages 14% from that area, so I'm with Tony.

[Creation88]

Pop rips him, Tony plays his best half of the season. coincidence? no.

[Muser]

I'm with Tony, Stuckey is damn good at driving to the hoop but has a weak outside game, you have to bait him into taking the shot.

[Obstructed_View]

If Popovich is benching Parker and Manu as punishment, then I don't see how he has the respect of anyone on the team.

[Kori Ellis]

Tony is motivated when Pop rips him, so it can't be a bad thing that it happened. Some players don't respond well to that kind of treatment, but Tony does.

[DAF86]

If Popovich is benching Parker and Manu as punishment, then I don't see how he has the respect of anyone on the team.

That's exactly what earns him the respect.

[SpurCharger]

Im WIth Pop, Considering he should Have Help Backing him up.... Plus Tony's Defense Has Been Suspect This Year.... Im glad Pop Did what he did....

[DDS4]

Had Stuckey missed, this would be a non-issue?

Pop is 51% right simply because not closing out on a shooter indicates lack of effort, no matter the percentages.

[JR3]

Pop was right. We don't play the percentages.. we play spurs defense. This is the NBA- Nba players make open shots... it would be interesting to know what stucky's percentage is when the defense doesn't close out on him. I bet its higher.

[Muser]

Stuckey is a .277 3 point shooter, you give him that shot if he wants it 10 times out of 10.

[Solid D]

"One of the best positions for shooting is
when the player is positioned in the corner
on the ball side. The majority of coaches
want their players to try and stop the penetration
by moving the defender X4 to play
this defensive role. I do just the opposite. A
defender from the angle never helps on penetration
because I won’t let the offense
make a shot from the corner. This defensive
concept is, among other things, one of
the reasons why San Antonio was second
in the NBA defensive statistics for the
lowest percentage of three-point shots
made by opponents.

My second rule is that the player with the
ball can never penetrate to the middle of
the court. Our goal is to always direct him
to the baseline. If the defender of the
player with the ball lets the penetration into
the middle, I will immediatly take that
player out of the game." - Gregg Popovich (excerpt from "The Game Philosophy of the San Antonio Spurs")

[Obstructed_View]

That's exactly what earns him the respect.

Punishing all-stars like they're children doesn't earn respect. He didn't bench Parker and Manu for mistakes when they were rookies. Holding everyone to the same standard is admirable, but treating everyone like Francisco Elson or Beno Udrih is outright insanity.

[hater]

Incorrect assessment.

Tony missed a few assignments and ballhogged for a couple of plays which caused Pop's top to explode.

like someone said that shot by stuckey was a prayer so no way that was the lone reason Pop exploded.

The strange thing about all this is Tony talked shit back, which is stupid because we all know Pop enjoys grilling players once in a while. So neither was wrong or right.

[Obstructed_View]

Tony is motivated when Pop rips him, so it can't be a bad thing that it happened. Some players don't respond well to that kind of treatment, but Tony does.

The fact that Parker happened to respond well or play well afterward in no way means that the coach made a good decision, any more than it means that Parker made a bad defensive play when a 15 percent three point shooter actually knocked one down.

[Mr.Robinson]

Parker will be playing better D now. Thanks Pop.

[Brazil]

I'm with TP on this one, I don't think TP was lazy at that time, he clearly wanted to avoid a Stuckey driving to the hoop but he should know that Pop hates leaving an open shot. I think if TP let shaq taking a 3 he will yell at him ! :)

[nkdlunch]

Pop is just fucking with y'alls heads. It's regular season after all

[Kori Ellis]

The fact that Parker happened to respond well or play well afterward in no way means that the coach made a good decision, any more than it means that Parker made a bad defensive play when a 15 percent three point shooter actually knocked one down.

I'm not just talking about how he responded last night. I'm talking about throughout his career, Tony has responded well when Pop has been harsh with him. Pop is harder on some players than others, depending on their personalities. For example, he coddled Hedo. He's always rode TP pretty hard.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I had seats right next to the Spurs bench and could clearly read Pop's lips and say "What did you say?!?" and then "Just sit your ass down!"

It was quite amusing.

[timvp]

as for the play, was that clearly intentional from TP or was it a lazy play ?Watching the replay, it doesn't look too much like a lazy play. TP got to the spot on the court pretty quickly, he just picked a spot about five feet away to protect against the drive.


I had misunderstood them to have been yelling about a couple of offensive sets that didn't go the way Pop wanted. I thought I saw Pop call tony over after a foul call on our end and tony was gesturing at our basket and arguing with him. I thought he pulled him after the next play.The next stoppage in front of the Spurs bench was after TP got fouled and was going to the line. Pop had to wait for the deal ball after that one to yank him. The timing made it somewhat confusing about what the issue was.


My second rule is that the player with the
ball can never penetrate to the middle of
the court. Our goal is to always direct him
to the baseline. If the defender of the
player with the ball lets the penetration into
the middle, I will immediatly take that
player out of the game." - Gregg Popovich (excerpt from "The Game Philosophy of the San Antonio Spurs")

Also known as the Richard Jefferson rule this season :lol

[Parker2112]

Punishing all-stars like they're children doesn't earn respect. He didn't bench Parker and Manu for mistakes when they were rookies. Holding everyone to the same standard is admirable, but treating everyone like Francisco Elson or Beno Udrih is outright insanity.

It's not about a pissing match. Quite simply, the philosophy comes first. It is bigger than any all-star's ego. Players believe in the philosophy because they have seen it work. They adhere to it because they know it can deliver. Once a player's ego prevents that, I'm sure they won't last here in S.A.

[Spursmania]

I had seats right next to the Spurs bench and could clearly read Pop's lips and say "What did you say?!?" and then "Just sit your ass down!"

It was quite amusing.

DrGonzo-your avatar makes it hard to read your posts. Gives me a headache. Just saying:toast

[Spurs Brazil]

I'm with TP on this one, Stuckey is terrible from 3 but explode to the basket very fast.

[Brazil]

I had seats right next to the Spurs bench and could clearly read Pop's lips and say "What did you say?!?" and then "Just sit your ass down!"

It was quite amusing.

They really have kind of father / children relationship even after all these years. One day TP will have to kill the father but I think that Pop will remain the most influencing person for TP carreer. IMHO the TP nba future is closely tight to this relation.

[Dr. Gonzo]

DrGonzo-your avatar makes it hard to read your posts. Gives me a headache. Just saying:toast

Yeah I was trying it out but I don't think I like it. I'm probably gonna go back to the midget in a hover round throwing her hands up because they are playing her song and her butterflies have flown away.

[Spursmania]

Watching Pop rip Parker last night was pretty amusing though. There's also no denying Parker can be quite lazy on D. Parker sure played better after the exchange.

I think Pop is right though. You adhere to the team's philosophy, and he's the coach.

[Solid D]

Watching the replay, it doesn't look too much like a lazy play. TP got to the spot on the court pretty quickly, he just picked a spot about five feet away to protect against the drive.

The next stoppage in front of the Spurs bench was after TP got fouled and was going to the line. Pop had to wait for the deal ball after that one to yank him. The timing made it somewhat confusing about what the issue was.


My second rule is that the player with the
ball can never penetrate to the middle of
the court. Our goal is to always direct him
to the baseline. If the defender of the
player with the ball lets the penetration into
the middle, I will immediatly take that
player out of the game." - Gregg Popovich (excerpt from "The Game Philosophy of the San Antonio Spurs")

Also known as the Richard Jefferson rule this season :lol

:lol True. Tony broke Rule 1, though, and Pop pulls the guy out who breaks Rule 1 or Rule 2.

[Spursmania]

Yeah I was trying it out but I don't think I like it. I'm probably gonna go back to the midget in a hover round throwing her hands up because they are playing her song and her butterflies have flown away.

:lol:clap

[DAF86]

Punishing all-stars like they're children doesn't earn respect.

Yes, it does. When a coach doesn't give a star player a special treatment and punishes or compliments any of his players equally, he earns the respect of the entire team.


He didn't bench Parker and Manu for mistakes when they were rookies.

Yes, he did. In fact Manu was in the dog house for a long time bacause of an argument he had with Pop.


Holding everyone to the same standard is admirable, but treating everyone like Francisco Elson or Beno Udrih is outright insanity.

He repremends when he has to and compliments when he has to, is not like he treats all his player badly all the time.

[td4mvp21]

I side with Parker on this one.

[Solid D]

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/assistmagazines/2003/05/mag_0305.pdf

The quote listed above from Pop was taken from this article written by Pop for a FIBA sponsored coaches clinic in Belgrade in the summer of 2003 (p. 20). It's old but it's still Pop's philosophy. Sorry TP.

[Libri]

I'm not just talking about how he responded last night. I'm talking about throughout his career, Tony has responded well when Pop has been harsh with him. Pop is harder on some players than others, depending on their personalities. For example, he coddled Hedo. He's always rode TP pretty hard.

I have never seen Pop yell at his favorite one, Hill.

[FromWayDowntown]

I get where Pop is coming from. I understand that in this particular situation, the facts of Stuckey's poor 3 point shooting lend some credence to what Tony did. But if Pop's rule is that you close out the corner 3, I don't know that it changes if the guy shooting the corner 3 happens to be a poor shooter.

And I think the point is to be sure that nobody thinks that it's okay -- in a big moment down the road -- to stop short of the close out just because he thinks the shooter might be unlikely to make the shot. I get that Parker has earned the benefit of the doubt by making plenty of good decisions, but there are other people on this roster who will undoubtedly be reminded that you close out on the corner 3 by this event. If failing to do that costs Tony Parker time, the need to follow that concept (whatever you might think of the concept) is paramount with Pop.

[Brazil]

I get where Pop is coming from. I understand that in this particular situation, the facts of Stuckey's poor 3 point shooting lend some credence to what Tony did. But if Pop's rule is that you close out the corner 3, I don't know that it changes if the guy shooting the corner 3 happens to be a poor shooter.

And I think the point is to be sure that nobody thinks that it's okay -- in a big moment down the road -- to stop short of the close out just because he thinks the shooter might be unlikely to make the shot. I get that Parker has earned the benefit of the doubt by making plenty of good decisions, but there are other people on this roster who will undoubtedly be reminded that you close out on the corner 3 by this event. If failing to do that costs Tony Parker time, the need to follow that concept (whatever you might think of the concept) is paramount with Pop.

It's a good point, yelling at one of the big 3 has value of example for the others. maybe

[Solid D]

Yep Players 1-15...Pop will get after every single one of them, if it is merited, Timmy and TP included.

[polandprzem]

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/assistmagazines/2003/05/mag_0305.pdf

The quote listed above from Pop was taken from this article written by Pop for a FIBA sponsored coaches clinic in Belgrade in the summer of 2003 (p. 20). It's old but it's still Pop's philosophy. Sorry TP.


jeeez man !

Thank you very much :worthy:

[DPG21920]

It did not look like a lazy play. TP made the right decision although the execution could have been a little better. 2 feet close would have sufficed.

[pjjrfan]

I had misunderstood them to have been yelling about a couple of offensive sets that didn't go the way Pop wanted. I thought I saw Pop call tony over after a foul call on our end and tony was gesturing at our basket and arguing with him. I thought he pulled him after the next play.
I thought he got pulled after he made a bonehead play on the offensive end where he took a bad shot while he had several people open. right after that he got pulled.

[ElNono]

I thought Pop was mad at both the matador defense Tony was playing then (which concluded with Stuckey's 3), and some ballhogging on offense. I would have to go back and look at the dvr of the game, but I seem to recall Pop grabbing his head a couple times after some Tony penetrations that went nowhere quick then.

And i agree with Kori that TP responds well to criticism. I was actually waiting for Pop to officially open up the dog house and it was a nice sight when he did. I think Pop is starting to shorten the leash, including benching Bogans and RJ early in the game.

[pjjrfan]

Either way I take Pop's side. At least he didn't grab him by the elbow and yank him around like Pop used to do Tony back in 03, that I had a problemw with, though a lot of people thought it was ok for Pop. If anything Pop has mellowed a lot.

[Cane]

I side with Pop. Thats one of his best qualities: he'll bust your balls even if your name is Tim Duncan or Tony Parker. In that situation, TP dared Stuckey to make the shot and he made him pay although the scouting reports were in Parker's favor. However that doesn't mean you let that kind of defensive effort pass especially in the Spurs system; you have to respect all NBA players and ballclubs even if Detroit was on a ten game losing streak. Hell, Detroit was well within striking distance up until the 4th quarter in part due to the Spurs not playing as physical as them early on.

[Keepin' it real]

Players should follow the coach's orders or risk being benched. That's "Sports 101" in my book. Even if Tony is thinking correctly, he should play as coached, unless he can talk Pop into changing his defensive strategy.

[z0sa]

Non-issue

[DPG21920]

You can do things as a player that defy your coach, but you better have the gall to back up your decision.

[Zero_Twilight]

Tony may have been right; however, he's 100% wrong responding to Pop the way he did.

This is a classic example of "getting into your star's face and the rest will fall in line." What kind of fucking example is that if everyone follows Tony's lead and yells back at Pop for missing an assignment? Stupid, stupid move Tony.

I think Tony still had some champagne in his system because even though Pop is yelling at him, he's REALLY yelling(indirectly) at guys like RJ, Bogans, Blair, McDeyess and so on and so forth.

Tony knows this...:nope

[senorglory]

Stuckey is a .277 3 point shooter, you give him that shot if he wants it 10 times out of 10.

Only if that's the team's plan on defense for the game, not a decision to be made on the floor by a player, most likely because he doesn't feel like running all the way out to the three, but would rather stay home a bit, where it's nice and comfy. It was a defensive lapse.

I think. Maybe. Who knows?

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm just happy to see Pop yelling at people more TBH..

[superjames1992]

They really have kind of father / children relationship even after all these years. One day TP will have to kill the father but I think that Pop will remain the most influencing person for TP carreer. IMHO the TP nba future is closely tight to this relation.
:wow

[ffadicted]

Both have good points, but I gotta go with TP here. He followed the scouts report, and knowing how much better at driving stuckey is then shooting the three, he made the right decision. Assuming help D will be there is a bit much imo

[Bukefal]

http://www.fiba.com/downloads/assistmagazines/2003/05/mag_0305.pdf


You just made my day with posting this link!! Thanks!



Well, both are somewhat right here. It was not a lazy play by TP but yeah TP knows that he should not leave a shooter open. But that Pop kept TP benched is a bit BS.

As for Pop being harsh on TP, well some players need that. He needs that to improve and keep improving and developing. That's what made TP what he is today.

[mogrovejo]

(besides the obvious and already stated fact that it's up to the coaches to tweak their defensive schemes)

Parker didn't read the scouting report:

1. Stuckey is a 43% shooter on the left corner 3.

2. The Pistons had played the Mavs the day before. They were down 3 with 10 seconds to go. The play they designed and called was a Stuckey 3 point shot from the corner. It was their go to play (and it wasn't a broken play, they wanted that shot). Stuckey is certainly good making that shot.

[Brazil]

:wow

:lol it's an image you know

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not just talking about how he responded last night. I'm talking about throughout his career, Tony has responded well when Pop has been harsh with him. Pop is harder on some players than others, depending on their personalities. For example, he coddled Hedo. He's always rode TP pretty hard.

He's always ridden Parker and Manu to get them to play their best, but he has never punished them with a trip to the bench after a mistake. That's a philosophy that has come along after the development of Manu and Tony and hasn't worked at all for any player that he's used it on.

[sonic21]

He's always ridden Parker and Manu to get them to play their best, but he has never punished them with a trip to the bench after a mistake. That's a philosophy that has come along after the development of Manu and Tony and hasn't worked at all for any player that he's used it on.

he's done that with manu a couple of time. one time during the 35 sec when tmac scored 13 pts. Another time more recently like 2-3 years ago.

[Obstructed_View]

he's done that with manu a couple of time. one time during the 35 sec when tmac scored 13 pts. Another time more recently like 2-3 years ago.

Yeah, how'd that one work out?

[sonic21]

Yeah, how'd that one work out?

that's not the point. I'm just saying pop has done that before.

[Obstructed_View]

that's not the point. I'm just saying pop has done that before.

And the result is further evidence that he should have learned his lesson by now.

[Chieflion]

I am with Pop on this one. Obviously it worked and Parker went on to play a solid game. The corner three is the most effective spot for players and Stuckey should not have been left wide open like that. I am sure there were moments before that which ultimately led Pop to explode.

[jcrod]

I'm not just talking about how he responded last night. I'm talking about throughout his career, Tony has responded well when Pop has been harsh with him. Pop is harder on some players than others, depending on their personalities. For example, he coddled Hedo. He's always rode TP pretty hard.

True, I believe TP admitted as much.

BTW, if the option was there, I would've voted both. I can't disagree with what TP did even though its Pop's system. Good to know he was doing his homework.

[raspsa]

Obviously Pop was right. Stuckey made the shot didn't he?

[Walton Buys Off Me]

You don't talk back to your coach- least of all in a public forum.

[Pauleta14]

Even if Pop was right, even if Tony can handle Pop screaming publicly at him,
I think it's getting old... Tony is a veteran and Pop should keep these reaction to the lockeroom only!

But, as some of you said, maybe that was also directed to the rest of the team! ("see how I treat an all star...")

My concern is not about who was right, but about the public reaction.

Anyway, no big deal...

[polandprzem]

I was about to aska question to Pops mailbag about his motivation of screaming or riping players. If he still fels he has to do it.
Well he answered me that question and I think that's good answer.

Veteran or no veteran pro athletes are riped by the coaches all the time. Why Pop should do any exception and not bring emotions to the table? Basketball is emotional sport. It won't do any better if Pop after the game told Tony to be more acurate with his playmaking and close the corner on D.

[sprrs]

If Popovich is benching Parker and Manu as punishment, then I don't see how he has the respect of anyone on the team.

Quote from Robert Horry:


“He just treats every individual the same. You’ve got a lot of coaches in this league who won’t yell at superstars on their team. They fear the superstars because they fear for their jobs. Pop doesn't worry about that. He yells at Tim just as much as he yells at the guys at the end of the bench. That way he gets the respect of all players. That's all guys ever want: If you're the top guy or the bottom guy, you just want to be treated the same and work on everything the same as everybody else.”

[dbestpro]

I have felt that Parker has benn playing very soft defense for most of the year. Parker may have been right about the play, but Pop getting in his grill about defense can only be a good thing. As a result he did pick up hid D in the fourth quarter.

[Summers]

I didn't know what it was about, but it was awkward even through the TV. Even Newman looked caught in the crossfire and I thought everyone seemed jangled, but maybe that's just my feminine perception making a mountain out of a molehill. Anyway, I suspect everyone kissed and made up after the game.

[lennyalderette]

im sorry parker is a shitty defender, and when they say "parker played great defense" they mean he played average defense, i know what im looking at, and you can tell whos a good defender and not, POP is right you let him possibly take the shot, but apply pressure, afterall were in the nba right, i mean i can hit an open three. so yes pop was right, and parker is a weak defender and thats why pop loves having george hill cover his ass, so parker can be lazy and hill can defend parkers guy, it happens all the time. please someone tell me how im wrong

[thOOdee]

pop was right.....and it would be pops fault if they are playing small ball and/or if the big doesn't transition over to help

[TDMVPDPOY]

when pop is in ur face, his always right

[Agloco]

I blame Popovich for playing mind games with players - Period. Especially veteran players. There's no excuse for embarrassing players by benching them for extended periods. Parker deserves better than that.


This. :tu

[Man In Black]

I choose Pop and here's why...
You cannot get caught up and play the percentages on who you're defending in the scheme. It puts too many variables to consider while playing. If TP sticks to Pop's way, there is only that 1 way to play it. And usually, Pop's way works best.

[exstatic]

Stuckey is a .277 3 point shooter, you give him that shot if he wants it 10 times out of 10.

Not from the corner. ANYWHERE else on the arc, but not the shorty. It's too easy, even for a sketchy shooter.

[exstatic]

I have felt that Parker has benn playing very soft defense for most of the year. Parker may have been right about the play, but Pop getting in his grill about defense can only be a good thing. As a result he did pick up hid D in the fourth quarter.

His defense has been for shit ALL YEAR. Pop getting in his grill for that one play is probably a bit of a boil over in the making.

[exstatic]

I blame Popovich for playing mind games with players - Period. Especially veteran players. There's no excuse for embarrassing players by benching them for extended periods. Parker deserves better than that.

Minds games are when the player doesn't understand why something happens, or different standards are applied to different players, or discipline is inconsistent. That's totally NOT Pop. If you get pulled, it's IMMEDIATELY clear why.

If you think Pop pulls players to embarrass them, you're either projecting yourself into the situation, or you don't understand Pop or the Spurs AT ALL.

[DDUBB1770]

Side with Pop, our d is based on closing out on 3 point shooters and trusting in your help rotations behind you.

[lefty]

I'm with Pop.


If Tim Duncan can hit an open 3, then any guard can do it, even one who shoots 20%.

Plus, angry Pop mode = championship

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Stuckey is a .277 3 point shooter, you give him that shot if he wants it 10 times out of 10.

Nonsense. How many of his .277% shots have been uncontested corner 3s? If you check out the stats closer you'll see Stuckey's very good from the corner and his percentage from there is much higher than .277.

No possible way to defend Parker's play in this situation and I'm pretty sure he'd admit it himself.

[Slippy]

Can't comment on the play too much as i didn't get to see it. Knowing Tony Parker's D i would say the fault lies with him. When dealing with the drive Tony tends to give too much room backing off. If Stucky's strength is the drive then that is something Tone would of had on his mind. Spurs team D requires players to close out on the preimeter especially if there was some-one ready to back him up or the opposing team can light it up from outside.. The main reason im siding with Pop how-ever is that if that's what the coach wants , i don't go by my own scouting reports.

[Bambililos]

I'm gonna go with Pop on this one. I understand what TP was doing, and that wasn't stupid, but right now the Spurs are trying to become a better defensive team, and Parker's been streaky from that angle.
So go ahead Pop, rip him, he might be more perfectionnist next time.

[Brazil]

I'm gonna go with Pop on this one. I understand what TP was doing, and that wasn't stupid, but right now the Spurs are trying to become a better defensive team, and Parker's been streaky from that angle.
So go ahead Pop, rip him, he might be more perfectionnist next time.

I agree but if doing that the guy makes an easy lay up driving inside, everybody would have said, TP your fuck why you have let him driving ?

[Bambililos]

To be honest, I didn't see the play, and I don't know if he could have backed down quick enough to defend in case Stuckey wanted to go to the rack.

But I was talking about the Spurs being a better defensive team, not just TP. They should have been ready to help defense, which I don't know if they were.

[Kamnik]

I side with Parker.

(allthough i accidentally voted for Pop)

[silverblackfan]

I go with Pop for a number of reasons.
1. He is the couch and he has the final say in how the game is to be played. Every player will get the same treatment if he does not follow the rule of Pop. One of the reasons I love the Spurs.
2. There might have been more to the discussion than just that corner 3. IMO, it seemed that Tony did not closes out then and in general was him being slow on defense.
3. As the other posters mentioned, the Spurs defense is close on the corner 3, hand in the face. When the Spurs do this, it causes the other team to rush a shot they think they are finally open on, or scares them off the line.
4. Consistency. The team has enough things to think about to allow each player to start figuring shooting percentages and reacting as they see fit. Stick to the plan and make it easy for everyone to know what is going on.
5. In the end Tony came back on the court and ripped it up. I think Tony and Pop need an occasional blow up for get the rest of the team's attention to the game. See rule 1.

[Halle Berry]

If Stucky appears somehow beyond Tony's control then probably Pop and Tony will reach the consensus that the game is done and Tony will gladly accept to sit on bench resting the remainder of it.

[MB20]

Didn´t watch. Reading the posts, it looks like 51% Pop / 49% TP.
TP did the right thing, imo.
But Pop is the coach.

Anyway, I can understand both having an exchange of words during a game. It gets heated. Emotions come out. They are not robots.
It´s good to see actually. It means they give a damn about the game.

Not a big deal.

[team-work]

I also didn't watch the game, and it is really difficult to choose who to side with. But I tend to agree with Pop, the reasons for which have mostly been stated by other posters.

Bottomline is Parker grew up under this harsh father-and-son relationship. Despite the exchange of words, Parker respects Pop & Pop cares his players.

It is an interesting poll, nevertheless.

[mogrovejo]

Even if you believe that it's okay for a player to decide on the fly how deep to close-out on a shooter (and this is highly unusual, I remember Isiah Thomas using this approach when he was coaching Indiana - especially on defending the ballscreen - and the results were catastrophic), Parker didn't make the right call: Stuckey is so good with that shot that his team runs plays to get him that exact shot in the final possession of a game (a reason why the scouting used for game planning is way more advanced than just checking the shooting percentage of players). What's so hard to understand about this?

[ForeignFan]

i always rather give up a three point attempt than a lay-up or high % shot, specially if the shooter averages 14% from that area, so i'm with tony.

+ 1

[polandprzem]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5092/17320415.png

[FkLA]

About time Pop gets on Parker's ass...alot of you liked to blame the early season poor play on guys like Bonner, Finley, RJ, Dice, etc but Parker is right up there as the biggest reason. He's regressed in my opinion, if he's shooting anything other than a lay-up it always seems like it has no shot of going in. Pathetic that after finally getting a semi-decent jump shot he lets it regress back to as bad as its ever been. Not to mention his defense and lackadaisical attitude at times where he just seems like he's going through the motions. I know theres basically no chance of it happening, but its honestly to the point where I'd prefer to see Hill start and see if we can get another all-star big man in exchange for Parker to compliment Tim.

[FkLA]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5092/17320415.png

Off-topic, just curious could you provide one of those for Parker throughout the season? I swear his shooting percentages outside of the paint has got to be in the 30s possibly even 20s.

[mogrovejo]

Off-topic, just curious could you provide one of those for Parker throughout the season? I swear his shooting percentages outside of the paint has got to be in the 30s possibly even 20s.
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

[Solid D]

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5092/17320415.png

Excellent value-add polandprzem. This is an example of raising the bar.

[anakha]

Off-topic, just curious could you provide one of those for Parker throughout the season? I swear his shooting percentages outside of the paint has got to be in the 30s possibly even 20s.


http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

63/174 for 36%.

Last season, his non-paint FG was 40% (240/595).

[polandprzem]

Excellent value-add polandprzem. This is an example of raising the bar.

Well i don't know. There was a poster that pointed the % for stuckey I was waiting for someone to printscreen the hotspots...

I had the bar so low ?

:)

[Solid D]

(besides the obvious and already stated fact that it's up to the coaches to tweak their defensive schemes)

Parker didn't read the scouting report:

1. Stuckey is a 43% shooter on the left corner 3.

2. The Pistons had played the Mavs the day before. They were down 3 with 10 seconds to go. The play they designed and called was a Stuckey 3 point shot from the corner. It was their go to play (and it wasn't a broken play, they wanted that shot). Stuckey is certainly good making that shot.

Value-add

[Fpoonsie]

I'm with Pop on this one, only because I miss angry Pop and'd like him to stick around. Lackadaisical Pop had me worried during the first couple months of the season.

[Indazone]

Coach is always right.

[Indazone]

and yeah, most posters on here are right. A mad pop means the spurs win. A laid back pop means the Spurs lose and don't care. A team or organization is a reflection of their leader.

[FkLA]

http://www.nba.com/hotspots/

:toast


63/174 for 36%.

I only counted the shots in the third area since I think the majority of the shots in the second area where tear-drops and can somewhat be considered lay-ups....I got 34% on those and 30% on threes. No surprises there since thats what its seemed like this entire season, absolutely pathetic that he let it regress so much after last years improvement. The thing is alot of these shots arent even close theyre complete bricks. No chance of it happening, but I'd trade him in a heartbeat for an all-star big man. Parker is the biggest reason for the Spurs struggles.


I'm with Pop on this one, only because I miss angry Pop and'd like him to stick around. Lackadaisical Pop had me worried during the first couple months of the season.

Agreed, I miss the old Pop that would go ape-shit on bad calls and wasnt afraid to get a tech or get ejected to light a fire under the team's ass.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0306/nba_a_popovich_268.jpg

[polandprzem]

umm If you check Stuckey's numbers for the last season form the corners he wa 0/7 from the left one and 0/1 from the right one.

He was 2/6 from the left heading to the spurs game right?


But the thing is that to me it does not matter. even if he is better this season from this corner and detroit wanted to kill the mavs knowing that Rodney is not good from 3 pointers. It's still a matter of perfection and keep up with defensive assigments that Pop provides. And i do agree with everybody that said it before.
Also - Pop send a message to TP, who mostly responds very well to this kind of stuff. [also already mentioned]

[Solid D]

:toasthttp://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0306/nba_a_popovich_268.jpg

"Pop went Serbian" - Tony Parker

[timvp]

1. Stuckey is a 43% shooter on the left corner 3.



http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5092/17320415.png

Just to add some counterbalance . . .

Before that shot, Stuckey was 2-for-6 from that spot, had missed his last four and hadn't connected from that spot since Nov. 15. To say he's a 43% shooter from that spot is a bit disingenuous.

Looking more in-depth, Stuckey was 2-for-15 in his career from that spot before the shot in question. So in actuality, Stuckey was a 13.3% shooter on the left corner 3.

[polandprzem]

I beat you for it timvp

[Solid D]

Just to add some counterbalance . . .

Before that shot, Stuckey was 2-for-6 from that spot, had missed his last four and hadn't connected from that spot since Nov. 15. To say he's a 43% shooter from that spot is a bit disingenuous.

Looking more in-depth, Stuckey was 2-for-15 in his career from that spot before the shot in question. So in actuality, Stuckey was a 13.3% shooter on the left corner 3.

Good leg-work, timvp & przem. Well there you go. Now who was right, again?

[polandprzem]

Good leg-work, timvp & przem. Well there you go. Now who was right, again?

:lol

Pop was right and tp knows it (the riping aspect) was not for that one play

[silverblackfan]

Pissed off, about to blow a blood vessel Pop is always the preferred one.
Flashback: Almost as effective as pissed off Duncan when David got thrown out of the game in Portland.

[temujin]

"Pop went Serbian" - Tony Parker

:lmao

[temujin]

Pop is right.

In general, Parker's has only recently -10 games- upgraded his defense to bad, from terrible it was in the first 20 games.

[tHe210rObInHoOd]

I was at the game and had seats right behind the Spurs bench. I think Pop was mad at Tony for taking stupid shots along with the defensive lapse on Stuckey. Things got heated because Pop tried to correct him (right before he went up to shoot his free throws) and Tony snapped at him. Right after Pop told George to go in on the next stoppage. As Tony walked past Pop, Pop yelled something along the lines of "What the f*&%... you think you're a hall of famer now??? Get your ass on the bench." After that their was serious tension going into halftime.

From what I could tell Tony has a major attitude problem from his jestures and actions before and during the game. He was acting like he was the best player on earth and didn't have to listen to his coach. Maybe this is why George Hill is Pop's favorite player now. (George was very humble all game and before with the fans).

After seeing the tension I'd be suprised if Tony resigns with the Spurs given that the Spurs don't trade him before. I was a huge Parker fan before but he seems way to Hollywood now.

[TheProfessor]

Coach is always right.
Yup. With in-game situations, defer to your coach and talk to him later about it if you need to.

[Bender]

As Tony walked past Pop, Pop yelled something along the lines of "What the f*&%... you think you're a hall of famer now??? Get your ass on the bench." After that their was serious tension going into halftime.
jeez, I wonder if Tony's even going to stay here for his next contract, he's sort of a semi-celebrity now, probably doesn't like getting yelled at in front of everybody.

[mogrovejo]

Just to add some counterbalance . . .

Before that shot, Stuckey was 2-for-6 from that spot, had missed his last four and hadn't connected from that spot since Nov. 15. To say he's a 43% shooter from that spot is a bit disingenuous.

Looking more in-depth, Stuckey was 2-for-15 in his career from that spot before the shot in question. So in actuality, Stuckey was a 13.3% shooter on the left corner 3.

Well, I don't think it's relevant how was Stuckey shooting in his 1st season in the league. He's improved quite a bit since then.

The 2nd point I added is the more relevant, I think. Try to watch the last 15 seconds of the Detroit@Dallas game and see the play the Pistons run for Stuckey. If I am a coach and I'm seeing that, I'm sure I won't be giving away the uncontested shot to that same player from that exact spot.

[TDMVPDPOY]

pops leading the votes....

now where the haters at

[jag]

I think Tony was right as far as game strategy is concerned, but I think he was wrong in the way he handled Pop's criticism and correction. It's easy to sit back and say that, though...but when emotions get involved it's very difficult to respond to unwarranted castigation in a calm and respectful manner.

[Brazil]

I was at the game and had seats right behind the Spurs bench. I think Pop was mad at Tony for taking stupid shots along with the defensive lapse on Stuckey. Things got heated because Pop tried to correct him (right before he went up to shoot his free throws) and Tony snapped at him. Right after Pop told George to go in on the next stoppage. As Tony walked past Pop, Pop yelled something along the lines of "What the f*&%... you think you're a hall of famer now??? Get your ass on the bench." After that their was serious tension going into halftime.

From what I could tell Tony has a major attitude problem from his jestures and actions before and during the game. He was acting like he was the best player on earth and didn't have to listen to his coach. Maybe this is why George Hill is Pop's favorite player now. (George was very humble all game and before with the fans).

After seeing the tension I'd be suprised if Tony resigns with the Spurs given that the Spurs don't trade him before. I was a huge Parker fan before but he seems way to Hollywood now.

Don't be too harsh on TP I think he is quite unhappy and frustrated with his recent plays, he knows he has been far below expection. Even if he won't admit it I thinks he had great hope to make the ASG so I suppose he is quite tensed and see his coach yelling at him like he was 20 years old didn't help.

Bottom line I'm seeing that like good signs Pop is good when angry and TP has an historic to respond well at this kind of treatment. Most important is the team, the game against Dallas is for me one of the most important of the season the team is reasonably healthy the big 3/4 is playing at expected level at this stage of the season and Dallas is a serious opponent.

[KEDA]

After reading this, I have to go with Pop on this one. I dont think it was just that one play, but a culmination of a few mishaps on Tonys part this season.