Finger: Robinson still learning system, spot in rotation

[Kori Ellis]

Robinson still learning system, spot in rotation
Web Posted: 04/26/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Mike Finger
San Antonio Express-News

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA042605.6D.robinson.213b144c6.html

If there were moments Sunday when Glenn Robinson was tempted to tap Spurs coach Gregg Popovich on the shoulder, or rip off his warmups and make a mad dash for the scorer's table, he let them pass.

After all, demanding more playing time is one thing in Atlanta or Philadelphia. But less than a month into a career with the Spurs, who know a thing or two about winning in the postseason?

"These guys," Robinson said, "have done it without me."

So even when they weren't doing it without him in the 93-87 opening-game loss to Denver — even when he watched the Spurs miss 17 shots in a row after he swished a 14-foot jumper with 10:20 remaining — Robinson didn't think about pushing for more shots or more minutes.

He didn't finish with many of either. After averaging 19.6 minutes and 12.8 points over the final six games of the regular season, Robinson didn't even enter Sunday's game until the start of the fourth quarter. With Popovich shortening his bench and each of the team's five starters playing at least 33 minutes, Robinson wound up with just two points in six minutes.

But even though he never has been a player to doubt his abilities, he said he realizes he can't expect to be as big a factor in the playoffs as he was the past few weeks.

"I know deep down I'm not ready," Robinson said. "This is a tough organization to come right in (and play). I've only been here for three weeks."

Robinson, who hadn't played in a postseason game since averaging 19.4 points per game in Milwaukee's run to the Eastern Conference finals in 2001, said he's willing to play a bigger role if called upon.

For the time being, though, Popovich isn't considering making major changes to Sunday's rotation. With Rasho Nesterovic sidelined, Popovich has been forced to thrust midseason acquisition Nazr Mohammed into the mix, but he can afford to take things more slowly with Robinson.

"Nazr and Glenn are trying to learn on the fly what's going on," Popovich said. "Glenn hasn't had any time at all."

Which isn't to say Robinson isn't contributing. Having played for Denver coach George Karl in Milwaukee, Robinson has plenty of pointers to pass along to his younger teammates.

He's also continuing to work on his shooting stroke, because he knows it might be needed by the end of the series. With Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili penetrating against the Nuggets, Robinson said either he or other Spurs such as Brent Barry, Bruce Bowen or Robert Horry need to knock down outside shots.

"We can't hesitate," Robinson said. "We have to let it fly when we're open."

And even though he's not counting on letting too many shots fly in Game 2 on Wednesday, he said that could change as the postseason wears on.

"We're looking to go a long way," Robinson said. "The farther we go, the more I get a chance to learn the system a little better."

[Kori Ellis]

But even though he never has been a player to doubt his abilities, he said he realizes he can't expect to be as big a factor in the playoffs as he was the past few weeks.

"I know deep down I'm not ready," Robinson said. "This is a tough organization to come right in (and play). I've only been here for three weeks."

It makes me a little uneasy that he doesn't think that he's ready.

[Das Texan]

ya thats a bit discouraging.


and if and when devin gets back you know that big dog will be pushed a bit further out of the rotation.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

did you expect him to be ready?

[Kori Ellis]

Yes. He was ready in the regular season and the Spurs need him now. I doubt he'll get a lot of minutes, but he should be ready to contribute when he's on the floor.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

No doubt. I have confidence in glenn. He's a veteran, a playoff tested veteran. Thats enough right there.

[boutons]

"It makes me a little uneasy that he doesn't think that he's ready."

Pop doesn't think he's ready, Glenn doesn't think he's ready, facts is facts. Everybody says it takes time, many months, to learn Pop's Xs and Os, and his defense. Isn't one of the reasons for SPAM is that it takes the team half the season, esp any new players, to get in sync with PopBall?

Glenn hasn't played all year for anyody, how could he possibly be ready in Pop's system after 3 weeks?

A much greater sense of uneasiness has to be the health of Tim, Rasho, and Devin.

[Kori Ellis]

He's a shooter. He should at least be ready to come in shoot. I don't expect him to know all the nuances of the system.

Devin's injury and Barry's reluctance to shoot are the reasons I hope he's ready.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Kori does pop take alot of input or in-game feedback from carlismo and the other assts?

[Kori Ellis]

Kori does pop take alot of input or in-game feedback from carlismo and the other assts?

Yes, from all of them.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think he feels ready to contribute, but he's got to tote the party line.

The goats have already been pegged should we screw this up: the French point guard with the Hollywood girlfriend, the off-season gunner acquisition who's not hitting the three ball, and two bum ankles.

Glenn has done nothing but impress in his time with this team, there was even games last week where he was forcing turnovers on defense, but hey, you've got to be here a year before you'll cool enough to play for Pop in the post-season (unless injury dictates otherwise).

[Obstructed_View]

Probably the only reason Robinson looks so good is because his minutes have been limited. It's the backup-quarterback syndrome. That said, it sure seems like the Spurs could have used a bucket last night and it would have been worth the potential defensive liability to get someone who could shoot with confidence.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Yes, from all of them.


I asked because either they always collectively seem to agree on the same things in certain situations, or he Pop just doesnt like to try new ideas.

What is the harm in trying Barry at point guard when beno is rookie-ing it up and Parker is sucking it up? Or setting up Glenn at the elbow like someone else said?

Are these ideas really that stupid or are they not mentioned in games or what?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Probably the only reason Robinson looks so good is because his minutes have been limited. It's the backup-quarterback syndrome.

April 20 at Minny: 27 minutes, 6-13 FGs, 4-5 Fts, 16 points.
April 18 at Memphis: 22 minutes, 9-11 Field goals, 4-4 FTs, 23 points.

I can see where you'd get that impression. Look, Glenn's not the perfect defender, but I don't know how you can expect anyone to get warmed up in 3 minutes of PT.

Nazr's certainly not 100% acclimated, he's still playing. Yeah, I know it's a necessity, but so is getting Glenn some more run.

[Obstructed_View]

Look, Glenn's not the perfect defender, but I don't know how you can expect anyone to get warmed up in 3 minutes of PT.
No, but I think he's proven that he can come in and hit shots, so that further reinforces the argument that he should have gotten some PT. The rotation isn't so established that you wouldn't think about putting the guy in when you are in the midst of an offensive funk. I'm just suggesting that perhaps the coaches know something we don't.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Look, we went 0 for 17. Humor me, make a sub.

[Kori Ellis]

Look, we went 0 for 17. Humor me, make a sub.

GRob was in for the first five minutes of the drought and then was subbed by Bowen.

Beno was in for the first three minutes of the drought and then was subbed by Parker.

Duncan was in for the first six minutes of the drought and then was subbed by Horry.

Duncan then came back in for Mohammed, who was in for the first five minutes of the drought.

Mohammed came back for the last three minutes of the drought for Horry.

That's not to mention four subs in the last minute.

So, there were plenty of subs. Pretty much every combination possible was on the floor with the except of one person -- Brent Barry. So, are you just bitching about Barry?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No. I wanted more Horry and more GRob.

The Beno-Parker sub was a wash. Suck for suck.

[Tek_XX]

ugh is brent barry ready?

wow it's not like we we're able to stop denver anyway so go ahead through Grob in there

[Obstructed_View]

All I know is that whoever is in the next game that is paid to make a jump shot should damn well make a jump shot.

[toosmallshoes]

barry is playing like a coward. beno is playing like a rookie. parker is playing as if he's already won the title.

will somebody on the team please grab a hold of these guys, and at the risk of losing their friendship, tell them that they are embarrassing themselves?

One of the biggest problems with the spurs is that they are so smart. they think too much. That's why they lose so many big leads. that's why they go a whole quarter without scoring. that's why they collectively shoot free-throws poorly.

They need to let that go. Lose their minds and let their bodies react to basketball.

[ca®lo]

i agree with obstructed.

damnit brent was brought here to make wide open 3's... especially n the playoffs!

that has been our prob last year with hedo.. freak me were having the same disposition again with barry!

[whottt]

GRob was in for the first five minutes of the drought and then was subbed by Bowen.

Beno was in for the first three minutes of the drought and then was subbed by Parker.

Duncan was in for the first six minutes of the drought and then was subbed by Horry.

Duncan then came back in for Mohammed, who was in for the first five minutes of the drought.

Mohammed came back for the last three minutes of the drought for Horry.

That's not to mention four subs in the last minute.

So, there were plenty of subs. Pretty much every combination possible was on the floor with the except of one person -- Brent Barry. So, are you just bitching about Barry?


In the final 5 minutes of the game(when Denver went up by 2) the Spurs made exactly 1 sutbstitution until there were 22 seconds left in the game(when we were down by 7).

But hey let's give Pop credit...he put Barry in with 15 seconds left so he could try and hit a 7 point shot.

You notice the only time we scored in that entire time was the play after Barry got put in the game.

[whottt]

And Aggie is right....

Bigg Dogg is just toeing the team line...what is he supposed to say? I think I should have gotten more time?

If he says that the media is all over it...and the entire team spends the next week answering questions about if Glenn Robinson is becoming a cancer.

What scares the living hell out of me is that Pop is saying he is going to continue to do the same thing.


But let's go ahead and hate on the two guys that weren't responsible for that loss...

Barry the coward, and Robinson the unready.

It's all on them.

[GrandeDavid]

I appreciate Glenn Robinson's honesty, but damn...now I have some direct insight into why those Milwaukee teams with Robinson, Ray Allen, Tim Thomas and Sam Cassell choaded so often in the clutch. Even if "deep down" you don't feel you are ready, don't share it with the f-ing media and opposition, "Big" Dog. Good grief.

[Summers]

It makes me a little uneasy that he doesn't think that he's ready.

Perhaps he's being modest? I mean, as opposed to saying something to press about "I wish they'd put me in". (shrug)

[whottt]

LMAO this is great...


It's all Barry and Robinsons fault...

They're the reason Parker, Manu, Bowen and Duncan choked fucking ass.


Why don't you guys get on Bowen's ass for taking 1 shot in the entire game...call him a coward.

[whottt]

I appreciate Glenn Robinson's honesty, but damn...now I have some direct insight into why those Milwaukee teams with Robinson, Ray Allen, Tim Thomas and Sam Cassell choaded so often in the clutch. Even if "deep down" you don't feel you are ready, don't share it with the f-ing media and opposition, "Big" Dog. Good grief.

Robinson was labeled a ball hog and a cancer in Milawukee...not tentative.

The guy said verbatim what Pop said and everyone calls him a coward...

IOW he defended Pop's move to not play him.

If you want to see what Robinson was like on those Milwaukee teams go back and look at the 5 or 6 year winning streak he had against us.


Just so we know who to blame for this loss...

The last time Barry was in the game(in meaningful moments) we were up 67-65

The last time Robinson was in the game(in meaningful moments) we were up 81-79

[Jimcs50]

LMAO this is great...


It's all Barry and Robinsons fault...

They're the reason Parker, Manu, Bowen and Duncan choked fucking ass.


Why don't you guys get on Bowen's ass for taking 1 shot in the entire game...call him a coward.

How did they choke???

They were tired, and they were trying to relearn to play with each other when it counted. TD had lost his legs.

What did I say the past two weeks????

Did I not say that Pop should not rest the players so much? I wanted him to stop worrying about whether they will get injured, and to play the stars at crunch time to get them used to having to play when the chips were down.

Because they had not played together for 1 month, they needed to play all the minutes they could together to get their wind back, and get into a groove together. You can not just turn that on come playoffs, I said, it has to be each and every game going in. That is why they were not in game shape, (in winning shape), because they were too worried about injuries and getting tired. You lose your legs, you miss shots, that is not some kind of new revelation in bball, you know.

Bowen did not choke, he played masterful defense on Melo, he only took one shot, but that was probably the gameplan.

[whottt]

Yeah Jim, you were also predicting we were going to win that game after I had already gone into shitfit mode over the rotation.


So Bowen, who is the leading 3 PCT shooter on our team, our starting shooter, takes 1 shot, and it's part of the game plan...Barry takes two yet has 4 assists, and he's a gutless coward...

Robinson takes 3 shots in 6 minutes and he's tentative...

It's amazing the lenghts you guys will go to to defend Pop.

You'll blame everyone but him...even though the two guys that are getting the blame now weren't even on the court...



Here's the deal, regardless what transpired earlier in the game...

Parker, Duncan, Manu and Bowen were in the game from the time we had the lead, until the time we were down by 7 points...

Those guys had a chance to win that game...hell the had they lead...and they got beaten...they could not hit the side of a barn, they played 1 on 1, they just threw pure slop out there on the offensive side of the ball...And Pop watched it happen...eve worse he's saying he would do it all over again.

Put the blame where it belongs...

[Jimcs50]

They were not going 1 on 1, they were trying to get the ball inside. That is what you do when you have lost your legs.

Could Barry have played? Could Robinson? Yes, but if they had played and we would have lost, all you haters would have been sayiing that Pop sucks beccause he did not have him main guys on the floor, the stars who make the most money, blah blah blah....you know it, I know it.

[Jimcs50]

Yeah Jim, you were also predicting we were going to win that game after I had already gone into shitfit mode over the rotation.


I predicted???
I was being positive in the 4th quarter, all you fuckers were all crying that we lost the game when we were down 4 points with 2 mins to go. I was trying to maintain some sanity when all of you guys were going apeshit.

So sue me for maintaining some semblance of faith.

[whottt]

I predicted???
I was being positive in the 4th quarter, all you fuckers were all crying that we lost the game when we were down 4 points with 2 mins to go. I was trying to maintain some sanity when all of you guys were going apeshit.


And we were right.


So sue me for maintaining some semblance of faith.

Faith in who? In what?

That doing absolutely nothing will end a scoring drought?

If I see an idiot about to jump off a building I am not gonna sit there and have faith that he will survive...I am going to say," hey idiot, don't jump off that building". But that's just me.

Our starting line up hasn't been good in the final second of games at any point this season...and it's not going to get any better with Nazr added to it...for all his o boards and dunks he is still too shakey on offense and defense to be in there at crunch time over Horry(and his 5 rings).

Yo go look at all our big close wins this season and you will see 1 name factoring in every single one of them.......Brent Barry...and the name you will most after that is Robert Horry. And Big Dogg needs no qualification other than his career against the Spurs.

[Jimcs50]

Faith in who? In what?

Sometimes, faith is all you have to keep you going.


If it seems like I've been lost
In let's remember
If you think I'm feeling older
And missing my younger days
Oh, then you should have known
Me much better
Cause my past is something that never
Got in my way
Oh no

Still I would not be here now
If I never had the hunger
And I'm not ashamed to say
The wild boys were my friends
Oh
Cause I never felt the desire
'Til their music set me on fire
And then I was saved, yeah
That's why I'm keeping the faith
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Keeping the faith

[boutons]

"they were trying to get the ball inside. That is what you do when you have lost your legs. '

No, that's what you do when the coach calls inside-out, to run 4-down to a player who is playing on one and a half ankles and who isn't in the best of game shape from trying to rest his ankle in the previous 2 weeks.

Why are the Spurs so tired, already in the very first game of the playoffs? The Spurs took it easy in the last 3 games of the season, lost them all, then had 3 days' rest before playing comfortably at home. Why TF are the Spurs tired in Game1?

I don't give a FF about Pop's record and 2 championships this week, and apparently, neither do the Nuggets.

All I'm concerned about now is the Denver series, and I sure got the impression that George had his troops better prepared with a game plan, and better psychologically, than Pop and the Spurs.

Was the TNT crew totally wrong that the Spurs had no intensity? How can that be possible?

Why do the Spurs have to blow HCA and dig themselves into a deep hole in order to wake themselves up and start playing with intensity (IF that's what they do Wed night)? That's Pop's role and/or the role of the team leader, who Pop says is Tim.

I posted earlier that the Nuggets minimum, primary objective coming to SA was to split
and steal HCA. Mission accomplished, surprisingly in Game1.

But seeing the Rockets put the dagger in the Mavs last night, I'm sure the Nuggets would love put the dagger in the Spurs Wed night. Now, I figure that the Nuggets won't take it easy after Mission Accomplished, but will play to win Game2 as much or even more than Game1, to finish off the Spurs early.

The Spurs can't just eke out close win Wed night, because that won't dent the Nuggets self-confidence. If the Spurs play the Nuggets even but manage to win, the Nuggets will consider it a moral victory. The Spurs have to win convincingly, up and down the court, all 48 minutes (kinda hard to do when the whole fucking team has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, but, "Do Your Best"). Spurs have to hold the momentum while going to Denver, must put some fear into and some pressure on the Nuggets.

The Spurs, having fucked up royally, have to make the best of a disaster.

All you "it's only one game" assholes can STFU. That didn't apply in an 82-game season, and certainly doesn't apply now. The Spurs got the habit of giving away too many losses in the season with bad, lackadaisical play, playing down to weak teams, didn't learn how to beat good teams on the road, and now they start the playoffs with giving away the first game and HCA with horrendous, lackadaisical play. The Spurs choked and butt-fucked themselves. And, Pop is absolutely wrong to suggest "we just missed some shots".

I really wonder if Pop wants to invest the coaching effort that will stimulate the playing effort? Perhaps Pop is wondering why TF should he bust his ass if the players aren't busting their asses?

[Mark in Austin]

I think Robinson was referring to not knowing all the nuances of the Spurs system - which in the playoffs become more important as the other team starts to get a feel for how your team plays both offensively and defensively.

I don't see any evidence that he's afraid to shoot. I actually like the fact that he admits he doesn't know everything yet. The Spurs offensive and defensive systems are rumored to be among the most complicated in the League. There's now way he could pick it all up in less than a month, especially given the teams he has logged the majority of his playing time with over the years. It sure seems like he really has checked his ego at the door. If he re-signs next year (long shot I know) I think we can expect good things.

[whottt]

How complicated is it to say...hey get your ass out there and hit a shot.

It's not like our D was stopping the Nuggets anyway...

What made it even more hilarious was when we kept him out at a time when we were fouling to get the ball back...if we are gonna foul then why isn't he in the game for his offensive contributions?

[T Park]

Why even discuss anything when Whottt and Aggie talk to you like this in a discussion.

Fuck it.




think he feels ready to contribute, but he's got to tote the party line.



Of course....

[GoSpurs21]

barry is playing like a coward. beno is playing like a rookie. parker is playing as if he's already won the title.

will somebody on the team please grab a hold of these guys, and at the risk of losing their friendship, tell them that they are embarrassing themselves?

And that man is not the always babied Duncan who shown time and again he doesnt want that job, that man is the fucking heart and soul of this team MANU FUCKING GINOBILI!!!

[T Park]

Manu was showing semblence of being a vocal leader, I hope right now in practice he is doing that, and in the locker room.

I also hope we can run some more screen and rolls or pick and rolls for Manu, and cut down on the Parker shots.

[Jimcs50]

Why are the Spurs so tired, already in the very first game of the playoffs? The Spurs took it easy in the last 3 games of the season, lost them all, then had 3 days' rest before playing comfortably at home. Why TF are the Spurs tired in Game1?

Because TD has played a total of 80 mins in the last 5 wks, that is why.

It takes time to get back in bball shape...it is not like he was running sprints while recooperating, he had to rest the ankle.

He needs some serious minutes to get back in his groove. Also Nazr and Horry have had to play more mins than usual because of TD's and Rasho's injuries....everyone is more worn out than usual.

[Jimcs50]

How complicated is it to say...hey get your ass out there and hit a shot.

It's not like our D was stopping the Nuggets anyway...

What made it even more hilarious was when we kept him out at a time when we were fouling to get the ball back...if we are gonna foul then why isn't he in the game for his offensive contributions?


Bullshit, Denver shot 40% for the game, they hit less than 40%(6-17) in the 4th Q.

They had some shots that bounced around the rim and fell in, whereas the Spuirs shotys were bouncing around the rim and rolling off...thoses are the breaks sometimes....that freaking rainbow shot by the midget over Nazr was nothing less than devine intervention...he could not hit that shot again if he shot it 20 more times.

Sometimes you get all the breaks, sometimes you can not buy one....

The Spurs will win this series.

[Spurminator]

Our defense gave us plenty of opportunities to win the game in the fourth. More often than not, defense will win out. Sometimes it won't, but if I believed offense at the expense of defense was a more reliable basketball system on the whole, I'd be a Kings fan.

It's like you guys think Glenn Robinson would have come in and hit 5 or 6 shots in the quarter. At most, the best you could probably hope for is 2 or 3. And how many of those would have been offset by Denver baskets at the other end?

[Obstructed_View]

The Spurs of the early 90's used to go into scoring droughts. Antoine Carr was very valuable because he could come in and hit baseline jumpshots, which would calm everyone down and help the collective confidence of the team. Doc Rivers did the same thing when he was here, which is why his injury in the playoffs was the death of the team that year. When everyone is having problems scoring, you need a calming influence. Robinson and Barry were brought in because they can shoot. It's a legitimate question as to why they weren't leaned on for that reason.

[whottt]

Our defense gave us plenty of opportunities to win the game in the fourth. More often than not, defense will win out. Sometimes it won't, but if I believed offense at the expense of defense was a more reliable basketball system on the whole, I'd be a Kings fan.

You can't just win with defense alone. It takes offense too. And the years we have won titles our offense played a role in it.

Steve Kerr wasn't a defensive player....and I hate to tell you guys this...but neither was Jack.




It's like you guys think Glenn Robinson would have come in and hit 5 or 6 shots in the quarter. At most, the best you could probably hope for is 2 or 3.

Are you serious? He can hit 8 or 9 shots in a quarter...and he probably will have a better chance at doing it if he doesn't get DNPCD'ed for the entire first half.



And how many of those would have been offset by Denver baskets at the other end?

I saw you saying this in another thread, that Melo would have outscored Robinson by some huge margin...I gurantee you Big Dogg has out scored the man guarding him most of the time in his career...this guy is not some NBDL scrub...he's an All Star with the best midrange J of this era, he's also been the man on a conference finalist, he's also owned us and our great D for his entire career....owned us. Like we went a half a decade without beating him....with Drob and Duncan...and inspite of his not playing D...

The 03 Mavs didn't play D and we barely beat them...we beat them because we could play on both sides of the ball better than they could.

The Suns don't play it either...

You think the Bulls won all those titles because of their D? The Showtime Lakers? The most recent Laker Dynasty?

I mean we were a better defensive/weaker offensive team than LA every time we played them...how'd that work out for us? Can you say choke?

[Spurminator]

You can't just win with defense alone. It takes offense too. And the years we have won titles our offense played a role in it.

Steve Kerr wasn't a defensive player....and I hate to tell you guys this...but neither was Jack.


Steve Kerr was brought in while we were behind. We were losing anyway, so it was smart to put in a scorer... defense doesn't help much if you're behind.

If you're tied or ahead, defense is still important. If we are consistently down 10-15 points to the Nuggets in Game 2, and our offense is not clicking, you will almost certainly see more Robinson and Barry.

Like I've said in other threads, I wouldn't have been opposed to giving Robinson a couple more minutes in the fourth, when it was clear that nothing was falling... but you're not going to see him out there for 20-25 minutes per game, and you shouldn't.


Are you serious? He can hit 8 or 9 shots in a quarter...and he probably will have a better chance at doing it if he doesn't get DNPCD'ed for the entire first half.

He can't and he won't. It's ridiculous to suggest he would hit 8 or 9 shots. How many shots are you giving him? All 17 that were missed? Be realistic.


I saw you saying this in another thread, that Melo would have outscored Robinson by some huge margin...I gurantee you Big Dogg has out scored the man guarding him most of the time in his career...this guy is not some NBDL scrub...he's an All Star with the best midrange J of this era, he's also been the man on a conference finalist, he's also owned us and our great D for his entire career....owned us. Like we went a half a decade without beating him.

:lol Dude, welcome to 2005. We wouldn't have gotten him for a minimum contract if he was still that kind of player.

Melo would run all over Robinson, and George Karl would make sure of it... because he's a good coach AND he has reason to humiliate Robinson.

[Spurminator]

The 03 Mavs didn't play D and we barely beat them

The 03 Mavs played above average defense that year. They gave up a lot of points per game because of the pace, but opponents were held to a low shooting percentage.

And with Dirk out for the last 3 games, their FOCUS was defense, and it was much improved in his absence.

[Jimcs50]

Whottt, what do you want?

You want to bench our best players in the 4th Q?

You think they will go 0-17 again?

TD needs to be in the game, we had the shots we wanted, they just rolled offf the rim or bounced off, they were close to dropping in, it was a matter of inches. These guys can win games, and they can make stops(6-17), they had a bad 4th Q offensively, BFD, they will improve on it....just fucking relax.

[whottt]

Steve Kerr was brought in while we were behind. We were losing anyway, so it was smart to put in a scorer... defense doesn't help much if you're behind.

I disagree totally...if you are behind you need stops...when you can't score and are blowing a lead you need offense.



If you're tied or ahead, defense is still important. If we are consistently down 10-15 points to the Nuggets in Game 2, and our offense is not clicking, you will almost certainly see more Robinson and Barry.

Barry is useless in a game where we are down 15 points...he's got his most usefulness when the game is close or we have a lead.

I'd say the same is true of BigBogg. But he's got more use when we are trailing.

Bottom line is both of them are our best options when our problem is a scoring drought.


When you have the lead you can trade baskets and win...when you are tied you can trade baskets and stay in the game until the momentum changes.



Like I've said in other threads, I wouldn't have been opposed to giving Robinson a couple more minutes in the fourth, when it was clear that nothing was falling... but you're not going to see him out there for 20-25 minutes per game, and you shouldn't.

I would have just like to have seen him come for a couple of posessions.




He can't and he won't. It's ridiculous to suggest he would hit 8 or 9 shots. How many shots are you giving him? All 17 that were missed? Be realistic.

Um...did you not see the game where he just went 9-11 in 19 minutes of play?




:lol Dude, welcome to 2005. We wouldn't have gotten him for a minimum contract if he was still that kind of player.

Melo would run all over Robinson, and George Karl would make sure of it... because he's a good coach AND he has reason to humiliate Robinson.

Yes we would have...because the reason he had fallen out of favor were due to his reputation, his personal problems, and his unwillingness to play for the Hornets.

He's still got that J...he's still got it.

[Obstructed_View]

The 03 Mavs didn't play D and we barely beat them...we beat them because we could play on both sides of the ball better than they could..
The 2003 Spurs couldn't keep a lead or get interested until crunch time, and the biggest play Steve Kerr made against the Mavs was a defensive play.


The Suns don't play it either...
and it will be their downfall.


You think the Bulls won all those titles because of their D? The Showtime Lakers? The most recent Laker Dynasty? Absolutely. Jordan, Pippen, Harper, Grant, Rodman, Magic, AC Green, Kareem, Cooper are all top-tier defenders, as were Shaq Kobe Horry and Fisher. IIRC Harp and Grant played on a couple of the Laker teams, too.

[whottt]

The 2003 Spurs couldn't keep a lead or get interested until crunch time, and the biggest play Steve Kerr made against the Mavs was a defensive play.

Uh no...the biggest play Steve Kerr made was coming in and shooting 70% from 3 for the entire playoff run.



and it will be their downfall.

Yeah? And what was our downfall last season?




Absolutely. Jordan, Pippen, Harper, Grant, Rodman, Magic, AC Green, Kareem, Cooper are all top-tier defenders, as were Shaq Kobe Horry and Fisher. IIRC Harp and Grant played on a couple of the Laker teams, too.

Yeah...Jordan's D was the best part of his game :rolleyes...

Ditto Shaq, Kobe and Horry...

Magic :lmao

Magic was an awful defensive player, it's ridiculous that you even try to claim he wasn't...there's more to the game than steals.

How old are you? Just out of curiosity...Becuase if you think the showtime Lakers were a defensive team you obviously never watched them...


Shaq? :lol...

Yeah they say he is the MDE because of his D.

[Jimcs50]

Whottt, you did not answer my question?

Stumped?

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah...Jordan's D was the best part of his game :rolleyes...

Ditto Shaq, Kobe and Horry...

Magic :lmao

Magic was an awful defensive player, it's ridiculous that you even try to claim he wasn't...there's more to the game than steals.

How old are you? Just out of curiosity...Becuase if you think the showtime Lakers were a defensive team you obviously never watched them...


Shaq? :lol...

Yeah they say he is the MDE because of his D.
Okay, first of all, I didn't know this was an either/or thing, that if they were outstanding offensive players, that somehow their defense no longer counts at all. You said that those teams didn't play defense, and you are absolutely so dead wrong you should be embarassed that you are still trying to defend it. Also, I didn't know that you were allowed to discount a statistic wherever you pleased. There's more to the game than steals, but steals are a pretty fucking big part of defense. The knock on Magic when he came into the league is that he couldn't score, not that he couldn't defend. He could not only defend, but he could defend your power forward or your center in the post.

Not that it matters, since ESPN classic shows those games all the time, but I'm 35 and watched all those battles through the 80s on tape-delay. The three best teams of that decade all could roll up their sleeves and play defense.

I agree that you have to hit some shots to win a game, and I've agreed with you on that specific point in other threads, but don't say something stupid like they couldn't or didn't play defense.

[whottt]

Whottt, what do you want?

You want to bench our best players in the 4th Q?

You think they will go 0-17 again?

Depends on who are best players are, what the score is, what our current problems are, and how long they have been going on...

Put it this way...the only two guys that never need to be off the court are Duncan and Manu...but it's debatable whether or not they should be handling the ball primarily.


In a fucking 10 minute scoring drought...I expect to see Barry out there, with the ball in his hands. I'd like to see Horry out there with him...and I'd like to see Robinson given a chance.




TD needs to be in the game, we had the shots we wanted, they just rolled offf the rim or bounced off, they were close to dropping in, it was a matter of inches. These guys can win games, and they can make stops(6-17), they had a bad 4th Q offensively, BFD, they will improve on it....just fucking relax.


You go look at the close games we have played this season and then tell me how many times that starting lineup(or exchanging Rasho) was on the court exclusively in the final 2-3 minutes.

I bet you won't find one win. You'll see Barry and or Horry in there...and even if it was just a spot substitution you'll see them a part of the game winning play.

[PM5K]

I took Big Dog's comments to mean he hasn't learned the system, not that he isn't ready to get in the game and take and make shots and I have to agree.

When he does get in you'll still see guys telling him where he should be and you'll still see him in the wrong spots from time to time, but if he's not ready and Nazr isn't a shot blocker than that's alright with me.....

[Jimcs50]

Well whottt, I think we have the starters to go to war with. I trust them to win this series and I can not wait til tomorrow so they can prove it to you.

[Spurminator]

I disagree totally...if you are behind you need stops...when you can't score and are blowing a lead you need offense.

Think about it... If you're ahead, you want to slow down the game. You want to give them less opportunities to score, and trust that your offense can at least score enough to stay ahead.


Barry is useless in a game where we are down 15 points...he's got his most usefulness when the game is close or we have a lead.

I suggest you check the lineup during the last quarter of the Regular Season Game of the Year against Phoenix.


I'd say the same is true of BigBogg. But he's got more use when we are trailing.

Bottom line is both of them are our best options when our problem is a scoring drought.

Sure, sparingly.


When you have the lead you can trade baskets and win...when you are tied you can trade baskets and stay in the game until the momentum changes.

Assuming you CAN trade baskets... Why do you assume that an average offensive team with clamp-down defense is any more likely to trade baskets than an average defensive team that can score more easily? It's not a guarantee either way... so your best bet is to slow the game down and rely on what got you where you are.


I would have just like to have seen him come for a couple of posessions.

As would I... If that's all you're arguing, then we really don't have to go any further because we agree.

My problem is with people who want to see drastic minute changes... reducing Bowen's minutes to give Robinson 15-20 minutes. There were people bitching about not seeing Big Dog WAY before the fourth quarter scoring drought, when we were shooting over 50% from the field.


Um...did you not see the game where he just went 9-11 in 19 minutes of play?

You expect that to be a regular occurance? In the Playoffs, when the games mean something?

It wouldn't happen. It's much less likely for that to happen than for us to see another 10 minute scoreless drought.

[Spurminator]

I think the following is more of a legitimate concern than a 10 minute scoring drought. Some things can be chalked up as flukes.

Others...

4TH QUARTER SUMMARY
TIME DENVER SCORE SAN ANTONIO
12:00 Start of the 4th Quarter.
11:37 Wesley Person made 25 ft three point jumper. Assisted by Earl Boykins. 76-75
11:15 76-77 Manu Ginobili made layup. Assisted by Tim Duncan.
11:03 Wesley Person missed 23 ft three point jumper. 76-77
11:02 76-77 Tim Duncan defensive rebound.
10:56 76-79 Beno Udrih made layup. Assisted by Manu Ginobili.
10:37 Greg Buckner Lost Ball 76-79
10:19 76-81 Glenn Robinson made 14 ft jumper. Assisted by Manu Ginobili.
10:17 Denver Full Timeout.
10:00 76-81 Glenn Robinson Shooting Foul. His 1st Personal Foul.
10:00 Nene Hilario missed Free Throw 1 of 2. 76-81
10:00 Denver offensive rebound. 76-81
10:00 76-81 Nazr Mohammed enters the game for Robert Horry.
10:00 Nene Hilario made Free Throw 2 of 2. 77-81
9:48 77-81 Manu Ginobili missed 6 ft running jumper.
9:45 77-81 Nazr Mohammed offensive rebound.
9:44 77-81 Tim Duncan missed 7 ft jumper.
9:41 Greg Buckner defensive rebound. 77-81
9:30 Kenyon Martin Lost Ball. Stolen by Nazr Mohammed. 77-81
9:15 77-81 Tim Duncan missed 4 ft jumper.
9:14 Kenyon Martin defensive rebound. 77-81
9:04 77-81 Tim Duncan Jump Ball
9:04 Andre Miller enters the game for Wesley Person. 77-81
9:04 Marcus Camby enters the game for Nene Hilario. 77-81
8:56 Kenyon Martin made 14 ft jumper. 79-81
8:36 79-81 Manu Ginobili missed 24 ft three point jumper.
8:36 79-81 San Antonio defensive rebound.
8:36 79-81 Tim Duncan Loose Ball Foul. His 2nd Personal Foul.
8:21 Greg Buckner missed 23 ft three point jumper. 79-81
8:18 Earl Boykins offensive rebound. 79-81
8:07 Andre Miller missed 12 ft jumper. 79-81
8:04 79-81 Beno Udrih defensive rebound.
8:04 Marcus Camby Personal Foul. His 2nd Personal Foul. 79-81
7:47 79-81 Beno Udrih missed 25 ft three point jumper.
7:45 Andre Miller defensive rebound. 79-81
7:33 Kenyon Martin missed 7 ft two point shot. 79-81
7:31 79-81 Tim Duncan defensive rebound.
7:16 79-81 Glenn Robinson missed 10 ft jumper.
7:15 79-81 Nazr Mohammed offensive rebound.
7:07 79-81 Glenn Robinson Offensive Foul. His 3rd Personal Foul.
7:07 79-81 Glenn Robinson Turnover
7:07 79-81 Bruce Bowen enters the game for Manu Ginobili.
7:07 79-81 Tony Parker enters the game for Beno Udrih.
6:52 Kenyon Martin missed 18 ft jumper. 79-81
6:50 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound. 79-81
6:39 Andre Miller missed 16 ft jumper. 79-81
6:35 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound. 79-81
6:31 Andre Miller missed 12 ft jumper. 79-81
6:31 Denver defensive rebound. 79-81
6:31 Marcus Camby Loose Ball Foul. His 4th Personal Foul. 79-81
6:31 79-81 Robert Horry enters the game for Tim Duncan.
6:15 79-81 Glenn Robinson missed 23 ft three point jumper.
6:13 Marcus Camby defensive rebound. 79-81
6:05 Andre Miller Bad Pass. Stolen by Nazr Mohammed. 79-81
6:01 San Antonio Full Timeout.
6:01 Nene Hilario enters the game for Kenyon Martin. 79-81
6:01 79-81 Manu Ginobili enters the game for Bruce Bowen.
5:48 79-81 Robert Horry missed 5 ft two point shot.
5:46 Marcus Camby defensive rebound. 79-81
5:30 Andre Miller missed 15 ft jumper. 79-81
5:28 Andre Miller offensive rebound. 79-81
5:28 79-81 Robert Horry Personal Foul. His 3rd Personal Foul.
5:28 79-81 Tim Duncan enters the game for Nazr Mohammed.
5:28 79-81 Bruce Bowen enters the game for Glenn Robinson.
5:18 Carmelo Anthony made two point shot. Assisted by Nene Hilario. 81-81
4:58 Earl Boykins enters the game for Greg Buckner. 81-81
4:58 Kenyon Martin enters the game for Nene Hilario. 81-81
4:54 81-81 Manu Ginobili missed 25 ft three point jumper.
4:52 Carmelo Anthony defensive rebound. 81-81
4:37 Earl Boykins missed 5 ft jumper. 81-81
4:35 Carmelo Anthony offensive rebound. 81-81
4:33 Carmelo Anthony made layup. 83-81
4:22 Kenyon Martin Shooting Foul. His 4th Personal Foul. 83-81
4:22 83-81 Manu Ginobili missed Free Throw 1 of 2.
4:22 83-81 San Antonio offensive rebound.
4:22 83-82 Manu Ginobili made Free Throw 2 of 2.
4:13 Earl Boykins missed 16 ft jumper. 83-82
4:11 83-82 Bruce Bowen defensive rebound.
3:55 83-82 Nazr Mohammed enters the game for Robert Horry.
3:55 Jumpball: Kenyon Martin vs. Manu Ginobili. Marcus Camby gains possession. 83-82
3:55 83-82 Manu Ginobili Lost Ball. Stolen by Kenyon Martin.
3:47 Andre Miller missed 9 ft jumper. 83-82
3:45 83-82 Manu Ginobili defensive rebound.
3:31 83-82 Tim Duncan missed 8 ft two point shot.
3:30 83-82 San Antonio offensive rebound.
3:27 Kenyon Martin Personal Foul. His 5th Personal Foul. 83-82
3:16 83-82 Tim Duncan missed layup.
3:15 83-82 Nazr Mohammed offensive rebound.
3:14 Carmelo Anthony Shooting Foul. His 4th Personal Foul. 83-82
3:14 83-82 Nazr Mohammed missed Free Throw 1 of 2.
3:14 83-82 San Antonio offensive rebound.
3:14 83-83 Nazr Mohammed made Free Throw 2 of 2.
2:49 Marcus Camby missed 16 ft jumper. 83-83
2:48 83-83 Tim Duncan defensive rebound.
2:32 83-83 Manu Ginobili missed jumper.
2:31 Kenyon Martin defensive rebound. 83-83
2:16 Andre Miller missed 15 ft jumper. 83-83
2:16 Denver defensive rebound. 83-83
2:16 Carmelo Anthony Loose Ball Foul. His 5th Personal Foul. 83-83
2:16 83-83 Official Timeout.
2:16 83-83 Bruce Bowen missed Free Throw 1 of 2.
2:16 83-83 San Antonio offensive rebound.
2:16 83-84 Bruce Bowen made Free Throw 2 of 2.
1:55 Earl Boykins made 16 ft jumper. 85-84
1:42 85-84 Tony Parker missed 8 ft two point shot.
1:39 85-84 Bruce Bowen offensive rebound.
1:34 85-84 Tony Parker missed running jumper.
1:31 85-84 San Antonio defensive rebound.
1:17 85-84 Nazr Mohammed Shooting Foul. His 4th Personal Foul.
1:17 Marcus Camby made Free Throw 1 of 2. 86-84
1:17 Greg Buckner enters the game for Earl Boykins. 86-84
1:17 Marcus Camby missed Free Throw 2 of 2. 86-84
1:16 86-84 Tim Duncan defensive rebound.
1:16 San Antonio Full Timeout.
1:09 86-84 Nazr Mohammed Lost Ball. Stolen by Kenyon Martin.
0:51 Marcus Camby made 9 ft jumper. Assisted by Andre Miller. 88-84
0:38 88-84 Tim Duncan missed 6 ft two point shot.
0:36 Marcus Camby defensive rebound. 88-84
0:35 Marcus Camby Lost Ball. Stolen by Manu Ginobili. 88-84
0:33 88-84 Tim Duncan missed layup.
0:31 Kenyon Martin defensive rebound. 88-84
0:28 88-84 Tony Parker Personal Foul. His 4th Personal Foul.
0:28 Andre Miller made Free Throw 1 of 2. 89-84
0:28 DerMarr Johnson enters the game for Carmelo Anthony. 89-84
0:28 Andre Miller missed Free Throw 2 of 2. 89-84
0:27 Kenyon Martin offensive rebound. 89-84
0:22 89-84 Tony Parker Personal Foul. His 5th Personal Foul.
0:22 Andre Miller made Free Throw 1 of 2. 90-84
0:22 Andre Miller made Free Throw 2 of 2. 91-84
0:22 San Antonio 20 Sec. Timeout.
0:22 91-84 Robert Horry enters the game for Nazr Mohammed.
0:18 91-84 Tim Duncan missed 8 ft jumper.
0:16 Andre Miller defensive rebound. 91-84
0:15 91-84 Robert Horry Personal Foul. His 4th Personal Foul.
0:15 91-84 Nazr Mohammed enters the game for Tim Duncan.
0:15 Andre Miller made Free Throw 1 of 2. 92-84
0:15 92-84 Beno Udrih enters the game for Tony Parker.
0:15 92-84 Brent Barry enters the game for Manu Ginobili.
0:15 Andre Miller made Free Throw 2 of 2.

[jcrod]

I hated the fact we lost 3 out of the last 4 coming in. Even thought it was used primarly to get Duncan minimal minutes. Its never good to have the losing feeling coming in, doesn't matter if they're meanningless.

I have no problem with the lineup that was out there. TP never misses the floater, Manu should've drove and instead of setting for the jumper (though he usually makes those) and TD never, NEVER missing that baby hook in the lane. It sucks, but its all bounce here and there.

Right now, i think Barry should be taking Beno's minutes and Grob taking Barry's minutes. But this should of been done before the playoffs.

[whottt]

Well whottt, I think we have the starters to go to war with. I trust them to win this series and I can not wait til tomorrow so they can prove it to you.


What the fuck does winning 1 or 2 games on our home court prove?

Nothing.


What a beggar you are...

It's the series or nothing.

[Spurminator]

It's the series or nothing.

Unless we lose a game, right Nancy?

;)

[whottt]

Yeah, unless we lose a game.

We should be winning these games...that's the whole point.

[Spurminator]

What the fuck does winning 1 or 2 games on our home court prove?

Nothing.

It's the series or nothing.

[Jimcs50]

What the fuck does winning 1 or 2 games on our home court prove?

Nothing.


What a beggar you are...

It's the series or nothing.


WTF said all I want is 1 or 2 games?

The Spurs had a hiccup...bfd.

Are you that spoiled, that you can not allow a bad quarter?

All they have to do is this:


1. Finish quarters like they did all year.

2. rebound on the defensive end.

3. limit TOs to around 13/game.

4. compete for 4 quarters

5. defend the open court, limit fastbreak points and 2nd chance points.

I have 100% confidence that they will do all the above and stomp the crap out of them the next 5 games.

[whottt]

You guys act like we are gonna advance for splitting the first two games on our home court....

If we don't win the next one...it'll go from being just a routine choke to one of epic proportions.

[Spurminator]

No, you act like we're going to lose for splitting.

I haven't said anything about celebrating Game 2 like it's the end of the series. The only people assigning any higher value to Game 1 are the ones who are jumping ship.

[whottt]

I'm not jumping ship because of losing game 1...I am jumping it because of the way we lost and because of the commentary from key figures afterwards.


Don't get me wrong...Giving up the HCA you played all season for is a big deal...but it in and of itself is not reason to jump ship...

A loss of confidence, crappy substitutions, and the coaches total non recognition of the reality, is reason..

[whottt]

BTW, could you please include more profanity in your posts in the future? Thank you.

[MadDog73]

I guess our question to you is why you think the Spurs will lose game 2? I expect the Spurs to win Game 2, win one in Denver, then win two more. Spurs in 6.

Thing is, nothing really happened in Game 1 to make me think this cannot happen. Think the Spurs will go on an 11 minute scoring drought again? Won't happen.

Thin Andre Miller will get 31 again? Won't happen.

Think the Spurs won't get more foul calls next game? That WILL happen.

Take it to the hoop guys, and the game will be yours.

[slayermin]

Why do the Spurs have to blow HCA and dig themselves into a deep hole in order to wake themselves up and start playing with intensity (IF that's what they do Wed night)? That's Pop's role and/or the role of the team leader, who Pop says is Tim.

And it's happened the last two seasons. The Spurs beat the Lakers the first two games at home but then go to LA and gets hammered because they lose their intensity. The effort in both game threes in LA the last two seasons were pathetic because they played like the series was over after leading 2-0. I know the games would have been difficult to win anyway, but put a fight.

[Spurminator]

BTW, could you please include more profanity in your posts in the future? Thank you.

Profanity is for ignorant cocksuckers. Fuck that.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How did they choke???

They were tired

What the hell were they tired from? They had three days rest!

As for Kerr, the only reason he ever had a chance is because Duncan said "yo Pop, quit being a fucking idiot and put Steve in the game to shoot some threes."