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duncan228
01-10-2010, 05:23 AM
Are the Spurs Still Title Contenders? (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/are-the-spurs-still-title-contenders/)
January 6, 2010

The Sporting News named the San Antonio Spurs the team of the decade last September (http://www.nba.com/spurs/news/090925_teamofdecade.html). Such a designation is not surprising when you consider that across the past 10 years the Spurs have won three titles and never failed to win at least 65% of their regular season games.

On Sunday, though, the Spurs lost to the Toronto Raptors. This defeat dropped San Antonio’s record in 2009-10 to 20-12, or a 62.5% winning percentage. Such a mark projects to only 50 wins across the entire regular season. For some teams – such as the Raptors (who have never won 60% of their regular season games) – a 50 win season would be cause for celebration. But for the Spurs, the current mark suggests that years of championship contention have come to an end.

About a week ago, Johnny Ludden – at YahooSports! – argued that cracks have already appeared in San Antonio’s title foundations (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aq4AvnPkt91483931J_hN5W8vLYF?slug=jy-spurs123109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns). Looking at the standings today we see that currently four teams have posted a higher winning percentage in the Western Conference. So some numbers suggest the party is ending in San Antonio. But that’s not the story told by all the numbers.

Let’s start with efficiency differential (offensive efficiency minus defensive efficiency). For the Spurs, this number is currently 6.6. This mark currently ranks 2nd in the Western Conference (the Lakers mark is 7.7) and is consistent with a team that will win around 57 or 58 regular season games. Yes, the Spurs differential suggest this team is second best in the West and one of the top five teams in the NBA.

To put this differential in further perspective, here is what the Spurs have done recently with respect to this measure:

2008-09: 4.1

2007-08: 5.3

2006-07: 9.1 (won NBA title)

2005-06: 7.5

2004-05: 8.5 (won NBA title)

2003-04: 7.0

2002-03: 5.8 (won NBA title)

2001-02: 6.7

2000-01: 8.5

1999-00: 6.3

The Spurs current mark tops what they did the past two seasons, and even bests what San Antonio did on its way to an NBA championship in 2003. So this current Spurs team is not the best we have seen across the past decade, but it’s pretty good.

When we move from efficiency differential to Wins Produced we can see who is responsible for this outcome.


Table One: The San Antonio Spurs after 32 games in 2009-10 (http://www.wagesofwins.com/Spurs320910.html)

Not surprisingly – as Table One indicates – Tim Duncan once again lead this team in Wins Produced. Duncan, though, is not a one-man team. Of the Spurs 57 projected wins, about 28 can be tied to the play of Manu Ginobili, DeJuan Blair, Keith Bogans, and Matt Bonner. As noted a few days ago (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/12/29/a-costanza-trade-for-joe-dumars/), DeJuan Blair was clearly a steal in the NBA draft. It’s possible that Blair will lead all rookies in WP48 [Wins Produced per 48 minutes] this season, just as Blair led all players taken out of college in per-minute production last year (http://www.wagesofwins.com/PAWS40Draft09.html).

Once we move past this quintet, though, the Spurs are only projected to receive 10 more wins from the rest of the roster. “The rest” includes both Antonio McDyess and Tony Parker. As Table One notes, these two players have declined the most from what we saw last season.

For McDyess the decline might be tied to age. McDyess was drafted in 1995 by the Clippers and now is 35 years old. As noted before (http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/12/23/a-quick-note-on-aging-in-the-nba/), age will ultimately reduce the productivity of all basketball players. And this means that McDyess – who is obviously not getting younger – may not improve as the season progresses. The Parker story, though, may be different. Ludden notes that Parker has not been healthy this year (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aq4AvnPkt91483931J_hN5W8vLYF?slug=jy-spurs123109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns). If Parker’s health improves, the Spurs may be even better as the team approaches the playoffs.

And this means the Spurs might be very serious title contenders when this season ends. Again, the impact of age can’t be avoided forever. Two of the key contributors this season – Duncan and Ginobili – are well past 30 years of age. So the Spurs title window is definitely closing sometime in the future. But it’s possible – despite the team’s current place in the standings – that the window will stay open for the 2009-10 season.

- DJ

Chieflion
01-10-2010, 05:26 AM
You are back. Good read.

jimo2305
01-10-2010, 06:01 AM
good article / welcome back

i think spurs really still have a chance but at the rate we're going right now.. there's no way we can beat LA or DEN..

we need something close to a miracle at this point IMO..

TDMVPDPOY
01-10-2010, 06:02 AM
we win if there are upsets in the playoffs and a easy route to the finals...then again the morons and haters will say we beat easy competition

Duncan21kid
01-10-2010, 06:34 AM
glad your back 228 :)
good read

honestfool84
01-10-2010, 08:58 AM
228! we missed you! yesssssssss!

Spursmania
01-10-2010, 09:42 AM
Duncan228:toast

Fpoonsie
01-10-2010, 12:18 PM
Well, HEY!...you're not dead! Neat.

tlongII
01-10-2010, 01:23 PM
The Spurs are done. They have zero chance at winning another title in their current configuration.

Bukefal
01-10-2010, 01:37 PM
Welcome back 228!

ffadicted
01-10-2010, 01:58 PM
The Spurs are done. They have zero chance at winning another title in their current configuration.

:rolleyes

Welcome back 228, and good read, although I don't think there's any question the spurs can be contenders this season if we play like I know we can.

blkroadrunners
01-10-2010, 02:25 PM
Hi. Welcome back. Good stuff.

spurs10
01-10-2010, 02:38 PM
Very cool read, thanks. I think we have good reason to remain positive.

Bruno
01-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Spurs aren't contender and it's quite easy to see why.

Come playoff time, you can expect Duncan to play 36mpg. There will have 60mpg available at PF/C for other players. Now, look at what are Spurs' main options to play these 60 minutes:
- McDyess: 35 year old that has been very average this year.
- Blair : a 21 years old rookie with some serious flaws (lack of size or a jumpshot).
- Bonner : a very limited player who has almost always choked when there were some kind of pressure on him.

It badly sucks and Spurs can't really be considered a serious contender with such a big weakness.

DPG21920
01-10-2010, 02:47 PM
Spurs aren't contender and it's quite easy to see why.

Come playoff time, you can expect Duncan to play 36mpg. There will have 60mpg available at PF/C for other players. Now, look at what are Spurs' main options to play these 60 minutes:
- McDyess: 35 year old that has been very average this year.
- Blair : a 21 years old rookie with some serious flaws (lack of size or a jumpshot).
- Bonner : a very limited player who has almost always choked when there were some kind of pressure on him.

It badly sucks and Spurs can't really be considered a serious contender with such a big weakness.

The question is, if McDyess can play like he did in the 2nd half of last year, is that enough?

Blackjack
01-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Enough to beat the Lakers? No.

Bruno's spot on; one of the few times it pains me to agree with him.

spursncowboys
01-10-2010, 03:39 PM
Enough to beat the Lakers? No.

Bruno's spot on; one of the few times it pains me to agree with him.
+1
In a series, we shouldn't be counted out from anyone. Especially since we are getting better every month.

HarlemHeat37
01-10-2010, 03:48 PM
That's just pointing out the obvious..

Looking at the West, I'd say..

Tier 1: LA Lakers..
Tier 2: Denver and Dallas..
Tier 3: Portland, Phoenix and San Antonio..

If Parker and Ginobili can play on a consistent level like we expect them to, that would put us in tier 2 IMO, probably the best team out of that list IMO..

We simply don't have the big men to get any better than that though..our points in the paint ranking is atrocious..

Blackjack
01-10-2010, 03:59 PM
Agree. :tu

If the Spurs get the expected play from the Big 3 to go along with a supporting cast that delivers (for the most part) what they're supposed to, they're the second best team in the West; no more, no less.

But it's far from a certainty.

DPG21920
01-10-2010, 04:47 PM
If Dice plays the way we think he can, which other bigs are better depth wise? Pau/Bynum, Nene/Martin, Dirk/Damp....

HarlemHeat37
01-10-2010, 04:55 PM
Well that's the problem, isn't it?..those are the 3 main teams we have to compete with..

It's also not exactly the matchups vs. the other frontcourts that I'm most worried about, it's more about the fact that we can't protect the paint at all..

ajh18
01-10-2010, 04:56 PM
Spurs aren't contender and it's quite easy to see why.

Come playoff time, you can expect Duncan to play 36mpg. There will have 60mpg available at PF/C for other players. Now, look at what are Spurs' main options to play these 60 minutes:
- McDyess: 35 year old that has been very average this year.
- Blair : a 21 years old rookie with some serious flaws (lack of size or a jumpshot).
- Bonner : a very limited player who has almost always choked when there were some kind of pressure on him.

It badly sucks and Spurs can't really be considered a serious contender with such a big weakness.



I used to think this was the main problem with our team, and still believe it puts us at a disadvantage against the frontcourt-heavy title contenders like the Lakers, Celtics, and even Cavs.

That said, this very good post http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142880
by harlemheat37 made a good point that seemed counter-intuitive to me. Our frontcourt has been performing pretty damn well overall, despite lacking in things like points in the paint. It's our backcourt that has really let us down. We definitely need someone to step up in the frontcourt next to Duncan, but I think if Tony and Manu can get their heads together and perform like expected, we make a jump from also-rans to a team that's a threat to upset any team in the playoffs.

DPG21920
01-10-2010, 05:19 PM
Well that's the problem, isn't it?..those are the 3 main teams we have to compete with..

It's also not exactly the matchups vs. the other frontcourts that I'm most worried about, it's more about the fact that we can't protect the paint at all..

Well if Dice plays to the level we thought he could, I don't believe that Nene/Martin are better. I don't believe Dirk/Damp are better although that is close.

Pau/Bynum/Odom is the toughest. Thing is no one knows if Dice has much left in the tank.

biba
01-10-2010, 05:50 PM
Hey! Duncan228 is back! :toast

Bruno
01-10-2010, 05:57 PM
I used to think this was the main problem with our team, and still believe it puts us at a disadvantage against the frontcourt-heavy title contenders like the Lakers, Celtics, and even Cavs.

That said, this very good post http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142880
by harlemheat37 made a good point that seemed counter-intuitive to me. Our frontcourt has been performing pretty damn well overall, despite lacking in things like points in the paint. It's our backcourt that has really let us down. We definitely need someone to step up in the frontcourt next to Duncan, but I think if Tony and Manu can get their heads together and perform like expected, we make a jump from also-rans to a team that's a threat to upset any team in the playoffs.

It's sure that both Parker and Ginobili haven't had a great start of the season with some injuries and some struggling. If they play better and I'm quite confident they will, it will obviously help Spurs.

Now, judging a frontcourt player outside of Duncan on a stat like efficiency is quite irrelevant. The first thing this player need to do is to play defense and it's something that doesn't appear in an efficiency stat.

HarlemHeat37
01-10-2010, 06:04 PM
I agree with your point about the frontcourt Bruno, I even pointed it out in that thread even after showing the struggles of Parker and Ginobili..it's obviously a glaring need, and we aren't going to win anything without a legit #2 big man or a big man that can fit the need of a guy that can intimidate in the paint at a high level..

I just made that thread to point out that we were losing every game with the backcourt getting outplayed on both ends..the efficiency differential points out both sides of the equation, so defense is relevant in the discussion..my point was that I believe our struggles were kind of fluky since I didn't expect Parker and Ginobili to struggle as much as they were at that point..

My point about our backcourt was actually proven wrong in last game vs. Dallas, since our backcourt finally outplayed the opposing backcourt of a good team and we still lost, partly due to allowing 50 points in the paint..

So the Ginobili-Parker struggles + the defensive struggles inside the paint are both the primary glaring issues for this team IMO..

Ed Helicopter Jones
01-10-2010, 06:25 PM
I want to see us play well against a good team...any of the elite or near-elite teams in the league on a night where each team has their weapons and has no excuses.

THAT would make me feel better about the season so far.

tlongII
01-10-2010, 06:28 PM
Well if Dice plays to the level we thought he could, I don't believe that Nene/Martin are better. I don't believe Dirk/Damp are better although that is close.

Pau/Bynum/Odom is the toughest. Thing is no one knows if Dice has much left in the tank.

Why would you think that Dice would all of the sudden play better in the playoffs when he hasn't done anything during the entire regular season?

DPG21920
01-10-2010, 06:29 PM
Why would you think that Dice would all of the sudden play better in the playoffs when he hasn't done anything during the entire regular season?

Look at the previous year(s) 2nd half of the season numbers vs the first. And I am not at all confident Dice can turn it around. I am speaking hypothetically.

Spursfan092120
01-10-2010, 06:31 PM
Why would you think that Dice would all of the sudden play better in the playoffs when he hasn't done anything during the entire regular season?
Huh? I'm sorry...I could hear you over the sound of this guy.

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