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View Full Version : Impressions from Spurs/Lakers, Round 1



lurker23
01-13-2010, 01:21 PM
Just got finished watch the 2nd half in more detail, and figured I'd share some of my thoughts from the entire game, in no particular order.

Spurs

-If Tim Duncan continues to play this well, the Spurs can do anything. This doesn't come as a surprise to anyone who has watched him all year, but he is playing some of his best basketball in many facets of the game. For a guy who is 63 years old, he does an awful lot of diving to the floor for loose balls, blocking shots on 2nd and 3rd efforts, and making defenses pay if they miss a rotation even for a split second. All this said, Tim looked a little fatigued at the end of last night, especially when he line-drived a couple free throws. Tim's 40 minute games outside the playoffs should be few and far between, and I'd actually be surprised if he ISN'T left out of the game against the Thunder.

-Manu Ginobili was Mr. Intangible last night. As usual, his biggest contributions don't show up in the box score, especially with a couple steals/blocks last night negated by poor officiating. While Manu is still capable of pouring in points in high volumes, especially when he gets his 3-point shot going, that's not necessarily what the Spurs need from him. If Manu Ginobili only scores 12 points per game, but those points come in typical clutch/late-game fashion, and he continues to get in passing lanes, disrupt shots on help defense, and generally make opposing teams wonder where he is, then he's doing plenty to help this team win.

-Tony Parker was feeling his jump shot. Much has been made about the new plantar fasciitis revelations, and there was no doubt that he was settling for the jump shot much more than usual last night; of course, when it's going in that regularly, who cares? However, I did see several plays where Parker showed his regular explosiveness last night, proving that he's not completely hobbled. As has been mentioned by a few people already, teams will now close out on that jump shot a little more; while that may be playing the percentages against a hobbled foe, I guarantee you Tony still has enough left in the tank to make them pay at times.

-George Hill was damn good last night. Particularly on the defensive end, Hill played an aggressive, strong game, where he defended a few different players, including the much larger Ron Artest. He also definitely earned future cracks at Kobe Bryant. Offensively, he found ways to get points and had crisp passes. However, I feel the Spurs need to find a better way to get GH3 more involved in the offensive half-court set when Tony Parker is also on the floor. As much as his corner-3 has improved, I don't want to see an athletic guy like George simply standing there. Find a way to get him to the wing or the top of the key (where he was when he threw a nifty bounce pass assist to a cutting Tony Parker), or even give him some opportunities to run the offense and let TP play off the ball a little bit more.

-I liked the activity that Bogans and RJ played with on both ends of the court. Both played within their skill set and didn't press too much. Both got in passing lanes a few times and came up with deflections or steals. Jefferson looks more comfortable by the day, and is slowly but surely getting his driving legs back. If the Spurs can get the ball in RJ's hands and let him attack the basket, he'll continue to become a bigger and bigger part of the offense.

-Not too much to say about Mason. He continues to shoot lights out, and confidence is high. It'll be interesting to see if Pop mixes things up and moves him to the starting lineup before the year is up.

-The big men next to Duncan played well enough to win.
-McDyess had a solid game on both ends of the court; hopefully the good game by Mahinmi has woken him up a bit, and he brings the goods every time we play the Lakers (and other big teams, ideally).
-Blair was a non-factor in his limited minutes; it'll be interesting to see if Pop lets him play through the rookie wall in the starting lineup, or if he moves McDyess or Bonner back into that spot. Honestly, I'm glad Blair is going through this now rather than in March.
-Ratliff played well in limited minutes, and I'd like to see him play more, especially against the Lakers when they're at full strength. It's hard to believe that Pop ISN'T saving him for when it counts.
-Getting Bonner back will help this team, if nothing else for the added depth he provides (not to mention 3-point contributions). However, the last few weeks have been a good test run for Pop and the Spurs to see what life would be like without him, whether by trade or with a very limited role come playoff time. Realistically, I think a subtraction of Bonner permanently requires either another big man to be brought in (if nothing else but for depth purposes), or for Blair to be reliable for no less than 15 minutes a game.

Lakers

-The Spurs have no one who is fully capable of guarding Ron Artest. That's okay, because almost nobody really does, but he was able to overpower Spurs defenders at will. George Hill actually did a pretty decent job of ball denial and not backing down from him, while also managing to steal a couple rebounds from him, but in the end, Artest's physical gifts will win out against any Spurs defender 1-on-1. If I were Phil Jackson, I would strive to exploit this matchup frequently in future games.

-Andrew Bynum continues to improve. He has great touch around the basket, and was consistently able to shoot over/around Tim Duncan and actually make those shots. Based on what I saw last night, if I were Duncan, I would try to block a few more of those shots and dare Bynum to actually make a move to get around me. In the end, that may be a move that backfires, as Bynum's footwork is constantly improving, but until he proves he can actually get around and past Duncan and get to the rim, I think you have to play him as if he's going to shoot the 6-10 footer.

-As much as I think this was a legitimate win for the Spurs, Kobe obviously wasn't 100%. I feel that he played well enough in the first half (VERY well at times) that you could consider the Lakers at full strength (minus Gasol, of course), and the Spurs passed that test well with a 12-point lead going into the half. However, even when Kobe was in the game in the 3rd quarter, he was a non-factor. He was passive, and acted like he was Bruce Bowen out there offensively. Except for a nice assist from behind the three-point line, it was basically as if he didn't play the 2nd half at all. The reason the Lakers played better once he left is because they weren't playing 4-on-5 anymore. Don't get me wrong, this was a very good win for the Spurs at this point in the season, but I know we're all looking forward to seeing how these two teams match up in April when both teams are (hopefully) at full strength and the Spurs have another 2.5 months to gel.

ElNono
01-13-2010, 01:22 PM
Quality post... raising the bar indeed :toast

Spursmania
01-13-2010, 01:41 PM
Great analysis Lurker:toast

I hate Dish Networks DVR. I tried to record the game last night since I attended, and for some reason it didn't come out. So, I didn't get a chance to watch it again.:(

lefty
01-13-2010, 01:44 PM
Great analysis Lurker:toast

I hate Dish Networks DVR. I tried to record the game last night since I attended, and for some reason it didn't come out. So, I didn't get a chance to watch it again.:(
I DVRed it :D

VBM
01-13-2010, 01:50 PM
This is a big win because SA did what it was supposed to do. It faced a team missing it's second-best player. It faced a team whose best player was banged up for most of the 2nd half. Had we won by two or three points, I obviously would have been happy with a win, but it wouldn't have proven much. SA faced a Laker run at the end, then went for the kill to finish with a 20-piecing.

As for the notes above, I don't worry about SA guarding Artest. I live in Houston, and I've seen that guy shoot the Rockets out of games. He was much more dangerous when he was a Pacer (all jokes aside).

TJastal
01-13-2010, 02:02 PM
Actually Roger Mason, Jr had a brief spell guarding Artest just before halftime and Artest did not move him off his spot and Mason contested him into an airball.

Just sayin.

ElNono
01-13-2010, 02:52 PM
I hate Dish Networks DVR. I tried to record the game last night since I attended, and for some reason it didn't come out. So, I didn't get a chance to watch it again.:(

Worked for me...

bus driver
01-13-2010, 03:19 PM
-As much as I think this was a legitimate win for the Spurs, Kobe obviously wasn't 100%. I feel that he played well enough in the first half (VERY well at times) that you could consider the Lakers at full strength (minus Gasol, of course), and the Spurs passed that test well with a 12-point lead going into the half. However, even when Kobe was in the game in the 3rd quarter, he was a non-factor. He was passive, and acted like he was Bruce Bowen out there offensively. Except for a nice assist from behind the three-point line, it was basically as if he didn't play the 2nd half at all. The reason the Lakers played better once he left is because they weren't playing 4-on-5 anymore. Don't get me wrong, this was a very good win for the Spurs at this point in the season, but I know we're all looking forward to seeing how these two teams match up in April when both teams are (hopefully) at full strength and the Spurs have another 2.5 months to gel.

the only thing not 100% about kobe was his pride

NFGIII
01-13-2010, 03:20 PM
Nice job except I have to somewhat disagree on RJ. I still want him to drive more to the rim since his athleticism would give him the advantage. I think he settled more for the J rather than the drive. And he will generate more fouls driving than shooting J's.

Just sayin

Brazil
01-13-2010, 03:22 PM
Nice reading. Thanks lurker.

timvp
01-13-2010, 03:22 PM
Great job, lurker23. Very good example of raising the bar.

TJastal
01-13-2010, 03:24 PM
Nice job except I have to somewhat disagree on RJ. I still want him to drive more to the rim since his athleticism would give him the advantage. I think he settled more for the J rather than the drive. And he will generate more fouls driving than shooting J's.

Just sayin

Yup. Ideally, he should use that jumper a little more in the less important games and really go balls to the wall taking his man off the dribble in the big games.

Blackjack
01-13-2010, 03:27 PM
Nice writeup.:tu


All this said, Tim looked a little fatigued at the end of last night, especially when he line-drived a couple free throws. Tim's 40 minute games outside the playoffs should be few and far between, and I'd actually be surprised if he ISN'T left out of the game against the Thunder.

While I can't say the free-throws were a great indication, he's been front-rimming them to start games recently, I do believe Tim might be at a point where the Spurs need to worry about diminishing returns. He'll obviously be better than any other option they can throw out there when fatigued, but you've got to wonder if keeping his minutes closer to thirty-five, thirty-six would actually be more helpful to him and the team; in playoff-type games, at least


-Tony Parker was feeling his jump shot. Much has been made about the new plantar fasciitis revelations, and there was no doubt that he was settling for the jump shot much more than usual last night; of course, when it's going in that regularly, who cares?

I think it was more of an impetus for him to get his shot going than actually feeling it. The Lakers give him the jumper to crowd the paint but, unlike the Suns, they've consistently been able to do it successfully; Tony's jumper finds the mark at a much higher rate when he's comfortable physically and he's able to get a couple of layups and floaters that the Suns readily make available. With the Lakers, not so much. (historically speaking)

One thing I did notice in an otherwise mediocre first half for Tony: Rodney Stuckey had been seared into the mind courtesy of Pop. While his shot and floor-game wasn't quite up to par to start the game, his close-outs on Fisher at the three-point line were there. He had Fisher shooting well-contested shots or being forced to put the ball on the floor, which might have just been the fruit Pop was looking to bear from their now infamous squabble.


-George Hill was damn good last night. Particularly on the defensive end, Hill played an aggressive, strong game, where he defended a few different players, including the much larger Ron Artest. He also definitely earned future cracks at Kobe Bryant. Offensively, he found ways to get points and had crisp passes. However, I feel the Spurs need to find a better way to get GH3 more involved in the offensive half-court set when Tony Parker is also on the floor. As much as his corner-3 has improved, I don't want to see an athletic guy like George simply standing there. Find a way to get him to the wing or the top of the key (where he was when he threw a nifty bounce pass assist to a cutting Tony Parker), or even give him some opportunities to run the offense and let TP play off the ball a little bit more.

I'm beginning to think I understand Hill and why it is that he excels in these higher profile, more pressurized games: certainty. Watching the Lakers, it's easy to see why they had the interest in him they did; he'd be phenomenal in the Triangle. At this point in George's development, (physically, mentally and overall know-how at the NBA level) he seems to excel when the opponent's a known quantity and the gameplan is cut-and-dry. He knows where his shots are going to come from, he knows how the defense will defend the Big 3 (thus knowing where his lanes and opportunities will be) and he's able to have the in-depth scouting report defensively, for his individual matchups, that allows him to really dig in and put his best foot forward; the certainty of the Triangle, once mastered, is a beautiful thing to behold and something Hill would absolutely thrive in.

I'm thinking that, with time, George will become a better reactionary playmaker. Once his knowledge for the game allows him to play more instinctively from the point-guard position, we'll start to see a player that can be legitimately though of as a floor general; he's a very intelligent player, often making the right, extra pass and/or making heady plays on both ends. The Spurs have a hell of a player on their hands. Once he completely grows into that body and acquires the basketball know-how and knowledge that only comes with experience, people are gonna have to watch the hell out.

For now, Hill needs one thing: certainty.


-The Spurs have no one who is fully capable of guarding Ron Artest. That's okay, because almost nobody really does, but he was able to overpower Spurs defenders at will. George Hill actually did a pretty decent job of ball denial and not backing down from him, while also managing to steal a couple rebounds from him, but in the end, Artest's physical gifts will win out against any Spurs defender 1-on-1. If I were Phil Jackson, I would strive to exploit this matchup frequently in future games.

Artest actually doesn't worry me all that much. The physical mismatch is no doubt glaring, but RJ has enough size and length to force him to shoot over the top and, at times, awkward shots. Manu and Hill also have the intelligence to draw fouls and get Ron-Ron lost in the minutia of mental jiu-jitsu that prevents him from simply taking advantage of his mismatch; somewhat in the way Bowen was able to handle 'Melo, even when Anthony had every tool and ability to get whatever he wanted. Artest could wear the Spurs' wings down and get them into foul-trouble, I'm sure it'll happen somewhere along the line, but he could just as well monopolize the offense, taking the ball out of Kobe and Artest's hands, and rack up fouls; two things the Spurs would greatly benefit from.


-As much as I think this was a legitimate win for the Spurs, Kobe obviously wasn't 100%. I feel that he played well enough in the first half (VERY well at times) that you could consider the Lakers at full strength (minus Gasol, of course), and the Spurs passed that test well with a 12-point lead going into the half. However, even when Kobe was in the game in the 3rd quarter, he was a non-factor. He was passive, and acted like he was Bruce Bowen out there offensively. Except for a nice assist from behind the three-point line, it was basically as if he didn't play the 2nd half at all. The reason the Lakers played better once he left is because they weren't playing 4-on-5 anymore. Don't get me wrong, this was a very good win for the Spurs at this point in the season, but I know we're all looking forward to seeing how these two teams match up in April when both teams are (hopefully) at full strength and the Spurs have another 2.5 months to gel.

IMO, while a win is a win and it was great to get, there's not too much to be gleaned from this in the grand scheme of things; the Spurs would have been much better served losing a close game had the Lakers been playing with a full compliment. Hill's ball-denial and ability to guard out on the floor was great and Bogans seemed to do an admirable job staying in front and utilizing his strength in the post, but how much can we really take from it? Kobe's clearly banged up and, if you saw the way Kobe lit up once Hill was made his defender, you saw how comfortable he seemed to get; Hill was there to contest the shot but Kobe looked like he was toying with him as he dropped a couple of spectacular shots.

The one thing that gives me hope, a point Mr. Gordian also pointed out over at 48MoH, is that Kobe's mentality would allow him to find that scoring, tunnel-vision mind-set that could play right into the Spurs' hands. In '08, the Spurs implemented a defense that kept the Lakers scoring under wraps by allowing Kobe all-he-could-eat in the mid-range game, thus taking Kobe off the free-throw line. Bowen gave him the jumper and contested only after Kobe had committed to taking the shot; something people, Lakers fans, never seem to grasp when discussing Bowen's ability to play Kobe back then. Kobe shot a high percentage and got his points, but the Lakers were held considerably below their usual point total. Kobe's exploits would have been all for not had the Spurs had the offensive firepower to capitalize; the Spurs have it now, but has the Lakers-Spurs paradigm changed?

Bynum's emergence hasn't seemed to coincide with the presence of Gasol but if they can find a way to play the way they're capable of together, the Spurs haven't a shot; Tim needs someone that can be a real factor (offensively, defensively or both) playing alongside him and that guy isn't on the roster, imo. And with the revelation of Tony's plantar fasciitis, the Spurs biggest advantage over the Lakers, it doesn't bode well for playoff prospects; the Spurs' other advantage being the bench, which doesn't typically win playoff series.

Of course, injuries to Gasol and Kobe could continue to linger and they have the potential to be devastating to the Lakers' title hopes. But I think you've got to build and plan for the team, a champion, with the thinking they'll be whole. And with that being the case, until I've seen a better representation of a Spurs-Lakers matchup, I'll continue to believe the Spurs lack the tools to get the job done; the Spurs do have the means to remedy this, though.

timvp
01-13-2010, 03:46 PM
Quality posting, Blackjack. I agree with just about every line you wrote.

Blackjack
01-13-2010, 03:48 PM
A blind squirrel finds a nut?:hat

urunobili
01-13-2010, 05:47 PM
I'm a lurker fan :tu

HarlemHeat37
01-13-2010, 05:48 PM
Good post from Lurker, as usual..

I don't take much out of this game from an overall standpoint either way..I just looked at little things..everything else was basically what I expected..

The things I looked at were intensity and motivation from certain guys in particular..McDyess played with the most energy I've seen him play with all year, so that's a great sign that he's going to come out to play against the big dogs..

I wanted to see how Duncan would play against Bynum, and he really dominated him offensively..if Duncan stays healthy, I agree that the Spurs can go as far as we want them to..he's really playing at a ridiculous level..just please stay healthy..

I don't mind the Artest matchup..there's nobody in the NBA at his position that can stop him from backing down, but his post game is really weak and he's out of control most of the time..he's really lost a step offensively..IMO if the Lakers go to him often, it's a victory for us..they have Kobe, Bynum and Gasol..2 of those 3 guys is always going to have a mismatch..so I view it as a victory..

DazedAndConfused
01-13-2010, 06:30 PM
The Spurs are not on the Lakers level, nor have they been for the last two seasons.

The Spurs lack interior scoring, outside of Duncan, and the Big 3 have all regressed (some significantly). The main problem for the Spurs is defense. They simply are unable to defend the way they used to be able to and have now been forced to change identities to a more offensive minded team. This just won't work for them, their DNA is defense. That's what won them championships. I've been criticized for saying these things the last two years , but the reality is I've been right all along.

When the Lakers have all their bullets in the chamber ready to go this won't be much of a contest. I think most of you realize that by now. The Spurs are done, there is no drive for 5. What you have now is a team that's good enough to make the playoffs but not much else.

Take pride in a win over a depleted team with little motivation. That's all it was.

ginobilized
01-13-2010, 06:39 PM
Nice post!

Hopefully McDyess carries some fire into tonight's gm. He looked focused and crisp last night.

Bruno
01-13-2010, 06:43 PM
Nice post. :tu

Between lurker23, Blackjack and timvp, there are some damn solid takes on this game. Thanks to all.

lurker23
01-13-2010, 07:00 PM
Thanks everyone. A lot of good takes by everyone going around.


Nice job except I have to somewhat disagree on RJ. I still want him to drive more to the rim since his athleticism would give him the advantage. I think he settled more for the J rather than the drive. And he will generate more fouls driving than shooting J's.

Just sayin

I agree that he still needs to drive to the rim even more, but from my observation he's been driving more and more recently, and I feel like he's taking steps in the right direction. I wish I had some stats to indicate how many jumpers vs. how many drives he did per game, but barring that, I think RJ's FG% tells the story:

First 25 games: 117/257 (45.5%)
Last 11 games: 58/106 (54.7%)

However, he was attempting more FTs per game in the first half of the season, so I'm not sure if the previous stat is just a fluke. I guess we can all just agree that the more RJ drives and the less he settles for the jumper, the more he'll benefit the offense.